PLAN Carrier Strike Group II

This video is an upgrade to the PLAN Carrier Strike Group video I did several months ago.
Things are moving along for the PLAN and I thought it was important to upgrade the video and add those things that have been upgraded.
This group consists of several ships, two of them critical and brand new. These are the two new Type 055 what the Chinese are calling "Large" destroyers, and what we would call AEGIS Cruisers. These large, stealthy vessels displace 12,000 tons or more, and have 112 VLS cells. But although this is less than the 122 VLC cells in the Ticonderoga AEGIS cruisers the US employs, the story doe not end there. Thee Type 055 vessels also have a Close in 24 cell missile launcher very similar to the US RAM (Rolling Airframe Missile Launcher (RAM). But they carry 24 missiles instead of 21. And the Ticonderoga does not carry one. So the Type 055 vessel actually has 136 missiles ready to fire. The US Ticonderoga does carry eight advanced Harpoon missiles, so it has 130 missiles ready to fire, compared to 136 by the Type 055.
The Type 055 also has a large hanger carrying two large ASW helicopters and so they have learned the lesson of the importance of having two helicopters on their escorts to maximize their ASW capability.
A couple of deficiencies however. The AEGIS Ticonderoga carries two 127.5 mm main, dual purpose guns while the Type 055 carrier one 130mm gun The Ticonderoga also carries two 20mm Phalanx CIWS gatling guns, while the Type 055 has a single 30mm CIWS.
So, the Type 055 is a significant improvement for the PLAN and having two in each Carrier Strike Group (as it would for the US with two Ticonderogas) will make the PLAN CSG that much harder and egg to crack.
The PLAN also carries two Type 052D destroyers. Their equivalent of the Burke Flight IIA destroyer. The Chinese carry 64 VKS cells while the US carrier 96. However the Type 052 alo carrier that 24 cell sino-RM launcher making the total missile count 88 against the US 96. Not so great a difference.
Then there is the frigate. The PLAN has a very good class of Type 054A frigates that they have built 30 or more of. These have a good DP gun, a 30mm CIWS, and a 32 missile VLS system. They also have a single ASW helo and hanger for it. The US, with their up armed Littoral Class vessels, and especially with the new FFG(X) will at first be a little less capable, and then be more capable with the FFG(X) starting in 2020. The LCS has eight long range ASMs, a 21 missile RAM, a 24 cell VLS for swarming small corvettes attacking, and carries two 30mm auto cannon, a hanger that can carry two ASW helos. The FFG(X) will have all of that and add a 32 missile AEGIS VLS system, so that their VLS will exceed the PLAN frigate because it will shoot the entire gambit of AEGIS missiles from quad packed ESSMS, to mos of the SM family, to ll of the Tomahawk family, the the LRASM (The Long Range Anti-shipping missile with a range of over 200 miles.
The we come to the submarine escort. China is well behind with there nuclear attack subs in any numbers being the Type 93, while the US has ample of their latest lass Virginas, which are two generation ahead of the Type 093 in terms of quietness, stealth, weapons carried, and in term of the next Flight, Flight V, being true SSG/N vessels with an extra 100 foot section carrying for modules, each carrying seven VLS tubes.
The US already has enough of all the vessels (when you consider the less well armed LCS) to form large carrier groups with twos cruisers two-three Burk DDGS, two FGs, and on or two strong SSNs.
China has enough for its current two carrier to do the same.
I would say the PLAN has probably the 2nd strongest CSG in the world now. The Russians carrier is being refitted and my not come out of it because they are broke. The French and the UK are weakened by having their major escorts having only 48 missiles each and only enough for two of each for their carrier, and the UK only having the same type of AEW as the Chinese...meaning a helo based AEW which as already mentioned is a strong weakness when compared to something like the E-2D.
Finally there is the carrier.
China now has two carriers that are both based on the 1980s technology from Russia's second Kuznetsov carrier that they could not afford to finish. The Chinese promptly go to Dalien for full refit. In fact they did is so well, that they completely documented it and built a second one. Now they are building a 3rd, but this on with catapults.
What they need now though is a 5th generation capable stealth fight for their carriers to counter the US F-35B that is being used by Japan, Korea, potentially Australia, and Italy, span and Britain on their new carriers. This is proving an effective counter to the growth in China.
Until they can counter it with their own 5th gen aircraft.
Interesting times in the Western Pacific,

[@albertxxx8386]

Since Chinese has already launched their 075 ship, I am looking forward to your video about that.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

As soon as Trumperter or somone else gets a 1/350 scale model out on it...there will be one built. I have a ARG already for the PLAN with two Type 071 LPDs and escorts. I would love also to see someone put out a 1/350 Model of the Type 072A LST, or even the Type 072 III. The PLAN has about 30 of them and they are very decent designs of the LST type vessel. Noting wrong with that. If there was a 1/350 model of that I would buy at least two and have them with the twp 071 LPDs and a 075 LHD. The five ships would make a very strong Amphibuous Ready Group similar to what you see I have made with the actual US Navy ARG video I have out. As I said, I made one with two 071 LPDs but I do need the oo72s and the o75 to really make it fitting.

[@anthon_tmk9788]

Thank you sir for sharing this informative video. And I hope that there will be no war between our countries.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

You are very much welcome. Thank you foe watching, commenting...and the kind words.

[@wenshiqing4943]

People who know the Chinese military very much like you are very few in the United States.Thanks for sharing this.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

Thank you very much. I wish they could get on youtubs and see the videos here...it would help my Youtbe numbers a lot!

[@LordHusky01]

@@JeffHead-IdahoUSA Indeed it would. I think I saw one of your videos the other day on a Chinese platform and it had around 70k views.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

@@LordHusky01 I wish there was a way to capture all of that enthusiasm over here...but, such is life. They want to see and hear and learn about what we have, and we are posting what we can find about what they have. I wonder how my videos on the Chinese vessels and platforms do on the Chinese net?

[@LordHusky01]

@@JeffHead-IdahoUSA Quite good actually. I've managed to find 3 of your videos (with Chinese subtitles) about Chinese ships there. A lot of views and comments were generally positive. Attracted some members from sinodefenseforum too. A link here just in case you want to take a look: www.bilibili.com/video/av64246396

[@jacklee2472]

@@LordHusky01 原来b站上的视频是你搬运的

[@neroravtong]

Nice video. It's been rumoured type 003 carrier, which is fitting with the magnetic launchers with conventional power, will be rolling out in a year or so. Quite looking forward to it.

[@garconboi4690]

Always look out for your videos, very informative. Thanks

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

Thank you very much...both for watching and listening, and for commenting. God's speed to you!

[@dingo4079]

I reckon we out-americaed Americans in many regards, just a little behind on freedom of expression. Btw please update sino defence, the type 15 light tank looks slick as hell.

[@bigcharliesmodelgarage296]

Great strike fleet. Thanks for sharing.

[@user-kz9sc8jh6o]

again, enjoy your video. Thanks !

[@pawpawtx]

AWESOME LESSON MY FRIEND ............

[@charleichen3763]

Beautiful ship models !Wonder how long does it take to make the whole fleet.

[@Razer_-fe9mo]

Very good models!

[@hassan38]

Thanks for sharing this with us.

[@steamedcream7671]

Supposedly the full length VLS cells on the Type 055 and 052D are around .75 meters across and 9 meters deep. This is quite a bit wider and deeper than a strike length mk41 cell at .56 meters across and 7.7 meters deep as well as the mk57 cell at .64 meters across and 8 meters deep. The missiles are obviously what really matter here and there is not much publicly known about Chinese missiles, but there is enough room for potentially larger and longer ranged missiles than exist in the USN arsenal. PLAN also can fire anti-shipping missiles from these VLS cells, something that the USN will not be able to do until the new anti-shipping Tomahawks begin to see service in 2021 and possibly the mk41 capable LRASM by 2025+. Last I heard Lockheed has actually pulled out of the frigate competition. Maybe things will change but at this point I think it's very unlikely that the USN will see a FFG-X "Freedom Frigate". That being said, Lockheed has showcased the possibility of the addition of mk41 cells to existing Freedom class LCS vessels. As of right now the focus is on the phase 1 upgrade for LCS which includes 8 NSM missiles in 2x4 launchers as well as Nulka decoy launchers. Phase 2 could include 8-16 mk41 cells in place of 1 or 2 of the 30mm gun modules, SEWIP electronic warfare, and maybe Spy-1F radar. LCS would basically become true light frigates capable of conducting all 3 major missions, AAW, ASW, and ASUW.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

It could also mean that there ability at mironization, as was the case with the Soviets, is not as finely honed as our own and they need the larger cell to house what they do have. I tend to lean further that way. In addition, the US Navy could use the Tactical Tomahawk, I believe the Tomahawk Block IV and have them programmed and/or use sensors to target ships before the newer ones you speak of in 2021. The LRASM will definitely be able to be launched from the Mk-41 to my knowledge, and should be able to be in service well before 2025 if they will put the hammer down, which we should do. Our LCS and FFs are going to get the new Norwegian missile, which is good. Yes Lockheed did pull out, and my hope is really now on Bath teaming with the Aussies and Spanish to make a full blown AEGIS vessel similar to, but smaller than the Hobarts. That would be a great and much needed addition for the USN.

[@steamedcream7671]

@@JeffHead-IdahoUSA Going to have to strongly agree with you on hoping the Bath/Navantia design wins the contract. F100/Hobart are in a way mini Burkes and have hulls already built to USN spec. They also have a hull mounted sonar which is something the Austal and Fincantieri designs lack although both of these have hangar space for 2x MH-60 which is certainly an advantage. The latest F100 FFG(X) mockup only had hangar space for a single MH-60 as well as 1 or 2 MQ-8 drones. If Navantia can somehow find space for a full fledged double hangar, the F-100 based design will be practically perfect.

[@bermanmo6237]

Is the guy a naval history buff or military buff? Ex-Navy? He has a very good, open minded and detailed understanding of the PLA Navy.

[@yzwrock6465]

052d驱逐舰 054a护卫舰 055驱逐舰 16辽宁舰！093核潜艇！👍👍👍

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

Yes we would definitely call the Type 052D a DDG, and the Type 054A an FFG. But we believe the Type 055 is a cruiser sized and function vessel. Simialry armed to and with a ver similar to our own Ticonderoga AEGIS Cruiser. The Liaoning is definitely a carrier...STOBAR carrier it is true, but an operational carrier with a ful;l air wing of J-15 naval fighters capable of attack. And the Type 093 is definitely an SSN. It is well behind the US and UK nuclear attack subs, 2-3 generations behind...but it is still an SSN and in the hands of a experienced and dangerous captain, it would be a dangerous boat...and no American captain will take that for granted or underestimate it. If they do...they are foolish.

[@卢哲予]

@@JeffHead-IdahoUSA strang we believe type 055 is also DDG what's the difference

[@hikari2hikari2]

@@卢哲予 Not too much differences, it's merely just the way you call it. Pratically, modern destroyers play the same role as cruisers in WWII, a flexible and universal vessel. Some would argue you can define a ship by its size and displaces, that's not really true, or at least not completely right.

[@felixsu375]

Where are you getting these models? They look really good.

[@Ottovonostbahnhof]

I ENVY YOU & YOUR Awesome models

[@jiaqiwang5263]

Those are expensive, I want one but don’t have the money for it

[@junma3125]

Great job !

[@emonhunter8107]

Very cool models i very much enjoy your videos

[@jayliu1984]

Very impressive models Jeff. Can you please tell us the outsiders how did you obtain the kits? Are these all self build? And from what material, what reference etc.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

Thank you for watching and commenting. Most of these kits are available online at various model providers and eBay. Many of them are either Trumpeter, Bronco, or other model companies. The Liaoning is a Trumpeter 1/350 scale model. Both Type 054A are also Trumpeter. The Type 052D and Type 055 are Bronco models. And the sub is Hobby Boss model. Hope that helps! I have the build thread on most of them on the Fine Scale Modeling Forum pages.

[@josecalderoncalderon5684]

Excelente, saludos desde Lima Perú!.

[@ericwu2709]

Wow, pretty nice models! Would you like to make some videos about WWII ship models?

[@AgentFitz-y3u]

It's kinda confirmed that China's third carrier 003 will be similar to Kitty Hawk Class but much better. Probably around 85000 tons with full displacement. Some people said online that carrier nuclear reactor was proven to be reliable, but I still think we have a long way to go. A carrier like Ford Class was the final goal. I think 054A will not be in CSG anymore cuz they just slower, top speed I believe is around 30 knots whereas 052D,055, the carrier can both easily reach 30+ knots. For 052D and 055 we have Z-20/ZH-20 as helicopter which is very similar to SH-60 sea hawk. That's why we build 052DL (longer version to fit ZH-20) a year or maybe 2 years ago. And yes, Chinese SSN, SSBN is 2 gen below the US. That is something we need time to develop and build. 095 SSN and 096 SSBN is under development but no one knows details. The news said online that 095 is better than Seawolf-class and 096 is better than Ohio-class... I would say no... however if they perform similarly as Seawolf and Ohio, that is a huge jump...

[@snkparty1]

Nice job sir. I wonder where these models come from. Sir you made them yourself?

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

I built them and also detailed the,m nyslef. Trumpeter, Bronco, Gallerie, Hobby Boss, and several other companies build them in 1/350 scale. After market companies make the ohoto etch and other after market details. You can get most of it online. eBay, Free Time Hobbies, Hobby Link, etc.

[@snkparty1]

@@JeffHead-IdahoUSA This really takes huge amount of effort to make so many ships...Great job!

[@fredh8065]

@ 2:00 That is a misconception. They can carry full load, but they need more strict condition to launch at such load. In other words, they need to have the right head wind velocity in order to do so. So the disadvantage is that they have to face the ship towards the highest head wind possible assuming if they have enough at the moment. So they can launch at full weight, but it just requiring more strict condition which makes it a disadvantage compared to catapult. BUT THEY CAN LAUNCH AT FULL LOAD. @ 4:40 Yes that is correct. The Chinese carrier stealth fighter is the FC-31 that they are working on @ 15:55 The Indians are probably not that interested in getting the F-35 because they know US wont sell it to them. Thats why US never gave the F-35 option when Indian airforce was tending a competition for a fighter replacement AND US wont even allow F-35 for Turkey a NATO member cause Turkey have the Russian S-300 SAM system because they might reveal some weakness of the F-35 and since India also operates the S-300, I highly doubt US will risk selling the F-35 to them neither. Other than this, love this video and love the model. Well done!!!

[@East_Performance]

You should soon have a type 003 carrier strike group to build. Hopefully it's nuclear powered. Looking forward to it.

[@张留晟-r5r]

我感觉更有可能是004用上核动力，003 可能会更像Kiity Hawk

[@East_Performance]

@@张留晟-r5r 对，应该常电弹

[@wentao614]

wow, what a true and respectful 'enemy' such as this gentleman... we don't worry about anyone that mocks at us while knows nothing about us, yet we do care about those that understand and firmilair with every bits and pieces of us... good job to yourself sir, but pretty worrying to ourselves... we don't want more of your kind...

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

Thank you for the compliment. It is my hope and prayer that while we remain prepared to defend ourselves and friends, that we never have to. One of the reasons the US is so open about its testing is to show potential conversationalists what we are truly capable of, not just on paper, but through rigorous and realistic training. I salute the Chinese on what they have accomplished. it is impressive. Far better if we could come together and mutually use our abilities to defend others...while ensuring that we are able to defend ourselves.

[@simonyip5978]

I'd like to see both of the first two carriers (CV 16 and CV 17) and the first Type 075 LSH together.

[@Jon8M5Musser]

I can't remember the last time a CBG or CSG deployed with 2 Ticonderoga class cruisers

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

I saw one last year, and we do it fairly often. With what is going down around Korea, in the Sought China Sea, also the traits going into the Persian Gulf...and we do it more than you would think. Not taking any chances. I'll find some pics and get them out here.

[@macmccartney5760]

Cruiser

[@lenthokchom]

Nice video

[@eymeeraosaka2954]

Great analysis. Can you predict the outcome of a naval battle in the South China Sea?

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

I belive the US would win due to 3-4 reasons: 1. The US substantial lead in nuclear submarine capabilities, both in terms of quantity and technical/qualitative capabilities. 2. The US now carrying 5th generation F-35C aircraft aboard ships, each of which would stealthily guide very stealthy precision guided munitions in front of them before they ever fired their own, then followed by scores of very strong F/A-18F aircraft. A US carrier can carry 90+ aircraft, the PLAN 48. 3, The vastly superior AEW E-2D aircraft. That have vastly improved range and ECM range than the KA-31 ot Z-18 AEW helicopter the Chinese carriers carry. 4. The very strong cooperative enagagement and data fusion of the battle group and their aircraft. For example a Triton very stealthy drone lingering at 80,000+ feet delivering targetable data to the carrier, the E-2Ds, Ticonderogas, Burkes, new FFG(X) which allows any of them to pass that data along to their aircraft and ships weapons without ever using their own sensors to illuminate the PLAN, and thus give away their position. The US ha widely published the result of all of this so everone, including potential adversaries are fully aware of it, which is one of the US's critical strategies to avoid war.

[@张留晟-r5r]

@@JeffHead-IdahoUSA I tried it in CMO...If we compare the warfare just between to Battle Groups, we will be in great disadvantage. 001 and 002, they are mostly regarded as a training group for the future.

[@georgemak2649]

Where did you get all these models as they look real and very detail ?

[@fatdoi003]

i don't think they need 2x type 055 destroyers, maybe just 1 and then type 052..... other 055 may escort type 075 LHD

[@beast1624]

AMEN!

[@noah-2240]

U should show us all of yo ships like a size thing that would be cool

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

Too many. I have well over 100 1/350 scale ships. US, Chinese, Russian, French, British, Japanese, etc. I have three full size US Nuclear carriers. All three fill up our dinner table so much that I cannot get all of their escorts on. Then I have one Russian, one Chinese, two US World War II carriers, a US Wasp Class LHD, a US Harpers Ferry lSD, a US San Anotnio LPD, two Chinese Type 071 LPDs.. All of those could not fit on the table either. Then all of the esccorts for fill size carrier groups for each carrier, full escorts for US and Chinese ARGs, etc., etc. I also have over 60 1/72 aircraft of alll types. Mostl;y modern US, Chinese, Russian, British and French...but also have 15 US WW II aircraft...and some of them are huge. B-1B, B-2, B-52H, XB-70, AC-130, B-36, MQ-4C Triton, P-8A, etc., etc. The Wing spans on some of those are huge...that does not include the dosxens of fighter and attack aircraft from the various nations. I suppose I could make a video of my whole model shop...but its a little messy and not as dust free as I would like. when I make one of these videos, the 1st thing I do is clean up the vessels or aircraft I intend to display. My next one is going to be a comparison of modern destroyers from the US, China, Russia, the Royal Navy, Germany, . I'll follow that up with FFGs, and then SSNs.

[@joe5865]

Looking forward to new 054B frigate

[@aa1944-k2r]

Type 901 fast combat support ship missing haha

[@alexlee7403]

US stealth fighters can be detected by most PLAAF frontline jets with upgraded anti-stealth radars.. Chinese make radars detected and warned the F22 that intruded into Venezuela airspace last year..

[@michaelkealoha976]

Good job nice war ships i believe chinese navy is getting bigger and better .

[@red_fox1140]

Where you get those models?

[@不喜欢水的鱼]

This video has 130000 views in China. I hope China and the United States can develop peacefully. Best wishes to you.

[@DaveTerrasidio]

cool

[@你马-h6o]

KZbin Lack of professional rational introduction like this viedo

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

Sorry you feel that way. If you read the description of the video above, you will find a significant introduction and explanation about the video and what it represents which is a pretty in depth introduction to the PLAN;s first Carrier Strike Group and how impressive it is that the PLAN in a relative short time has developed this capability and capacity and is on track to probably have 4-6 such groups within the next ten years and that the other natin in the area cannot and should not take it for granted or feel that it somehow is a fake, ot that it is not (and as some believe that it could not) be very effective. It is anything but that. It represents a very serious and capable development by the PLAN and should not be euter scoffed at or felt that it is not a very serious capability. In fact, it is very impressive, particularly since they have already launched and outfitted a second carrier and have a third large CATOBAR carrier building.

[@你马-h6o]

Jeff Head yes i know it .i mean your viedo is rational. i like your viedo .i think You misunderstood me.

[@floydpowell9238]

Excellent video. Remember, whilst the US undoubtedly have a more powerful navy, China has no interest in military global hegemony and therefore only needs to defend its trade routes, which are long but not global. China paid the price for not being able to defend its sovereignty in the 1800's when Britain, France and then the US sent naval forces to impose their will, and Opium, onto the peasant Chinese population. Britain siezed Hong-Kong in the process. We view China, a population of 1.4BN, though our imperialistic western eyes, which is a mistake. We hear phrases like "containing China'. What if the Chinese had 20+ military bases located in the Caribbean, central and South America? I believe the US would refer to the Monroe Doctrine.

[@kimpoho9064]

Missing a supply ship.....

[@TresLinguas]

Great video. An additional weakness worth mentioning is that the otherwise well designed J-15 is still seriously hobbled by the inability of the Chinese jet aircraft industry to produce a single crystal fan for their turbofans. Because of that their engines aren’t nearly as reliable as our own or even Russian jet engines for that matter. This also prevents those engines from producing the thrust that they should limiting weapons load and range even more than the ski jump system already does by design. Honestly I’m a little shocked that the Chinese continue to use their own jet engines here rather than buying the superior engines the Russians have already sold them for use in other aircraft.

[@rogermars2465]

A new and better generation of engines now has came out because of their insistence

[@TresLinguas]

@@rogermars2465 insistence that the PRC continue trying to develop and improve their own turbines? Indeed it has helped. But, why hamstring the relatively very small carrier fighter fleet when the land based fighter fleet is far less detrimentally affected by these engines and substantially larger too? Why can’t the few dozen carrier born fighters get Russian engines just like the J20 fighters already have so that they can actually be reasonably safe and somewhat useful? That still leaves hundreds of land-based J-10 and Flanker derived fighters to utilize PRC built turbofans. Literally, ramp launched Flankers are so limited in weight by PRC built engines they’re all but useless. It doesn’t make any sense.

[@davec5153]

The J15 have problems with the power of their Russian coppied engines. It cant take off with a full fule or wepons load. I dont think they can take off with something as large as an anti ship missle and have enough fuel to carry it any distance. The Chinese surface navy relies on not as good copies of the Russian surface fleet, which was never the strongest,.

[@rogermars2465]

Yes, they have so many problems. But, they are catching up so fast that no one can imaging. Ps, Russian was really bad at navy.

[@laohu5511]

Forget about subverting the political system in China. We either all learn to get along different politgical systems and all or world war is a very real proposition, Russia, Iran, North Korea among others are increasingly aligned against the West. You are facing a much stronger foe that you alluded to in your vidoe.

[@jasonjoyce107]

Astute Class submarine food.

[@JeffHead-IdahoUSA]

I have two Astute SSNs, two Type 23 FFGs andt wo Type 45 Darings. Guess what they are for? They are waiting for a 1/350 scale QE model that I can make a RN CSG with. Sadly, because of liberal decisions regarding those two carriers, making them STOBAR with a ski-jump and there for not having mainly the E-2D Super Hawkeye, and of course the fully loaded F/A-18/EDs and F-35Cs. Had to end up settling for the Crows nest that does not have the range necessary to see enemy aircraft before they (the enemy planes) reach their ASM launch point. Then each of those single aircraft targets becomes 4 or 6 supersonic missile targets which are much harder to stop. Each RN carrier going into high threat environments will have to have US carrier with a Hawkeye and a Ticonderoga and at least one Aegis DDG to up their missile count to something that could stop a large attack. I do believe however, that if Japan, Korea, Australia, India, and Italy pick the EV-22...which is much more capable than crows nest, that the RN would switch and have a chance to be able to defend themselves in this current threat environment.

[@simonyip5978]

Judging by what Jeff Head says about these new ships (plus the other ships like the Type 075/071 LSH and LPDs, the various combat and support vessels and the large number of modern and well designed coastguard vessels), I'm pretty sure that the Chinese navy know what the potential opponents have and what they need to do in order to counter the opposition's threat. The amount of money, time and effort that the PLA Navy and the other services have put into upgrading their military capabilities, points to the likelihood that they have no intentions of being submarine food or easy targets for anyone. It's clear that the video producer has a lot of respect for what the Chinese have achieved in such a short period of time.

[@colinboyd9121]

Liaoning clearly outclasses Kuznetsov but the F35s in most NATO forces would trounce the J15 for the sole reason that the F35 gets two free AMRAAM shots BVR. The only peers truly threatened by Liaoning are Russia and India with their inferior implementations of the Kuznetsov/Kiev class (in India's case only slightly inferior.). The Chinese tellingly call it a training vessel

[@jzsn8947]

Liaoning is being treated like a training vessel too by PLA. The future planned 6 carrier groups will probably need to exclude Liaoning if they want true strike capability.