current trends that are RUINING kpop

[@PlanetMinjae]

STREAM 😁 kzbin.info/www/bejne/rITTnJmreJmHiZI

[@iambarryallen]

Pls do an IU topic🙏🙏🙏 a lot of young fans tend to hate her, mostly cause shes their idols crush or she beats their idols on the charts. Pls explain how legendary IU is and why she should be respected by fandoms

[@minthecat1969]

@@iambarryallen yahhh. Why do they hate her though She is sooo talented ,hard working and kind. She has everything and with no remorse or anything against her. I don't understand them.

[@YoureMyCherryOnTop143]

*Yes*

[@jacki8106]

Where is the Join Button?? Am I literally blind??

[@kayleighmay2557]

@@jacki8106 It's next to the subscribe button :)

[@ahmadshauqijohara6665]

I would add one more trend that ruins kpop: fans nowadays are crazy about statistics. They will start comparing which of their favourite idol groups are the best in terms of album sales, digital, views, etc. If the group ranks first in whatever statistics, they feel superior and start belittling others.

[@justinnyugen7015]

Agreed. All those numbers used to try and label each other "irrelevant"

[@maeneae]

and at the end of the day, it wont validate the groups overall quality. just bc they are popular or sell well does not mean theyre good😭

[@LadyTiferet]

it's like with soccer fan clubs, people get off on stanning "winners" and make it a part of their own identity and self-worth

[@justinnyugen7015]

Flop is another term thrown around by…certain statistic fanatics

[@ozoz3444]

whats worse is they're bulk buying and polluting the world by throwing away a bunch of copies of those albums their faves are "selling"

[@theyansterr]

Trend hopping is horrible. Weeekly is probably the number one group I can think of. They were killing it with their high teen music and had a core concept and suddenly they went with girl crush Ven Para. They could’ve totally just matured their concept like fromis_9 or went with an elegant school girl concept like love dive. They’re still teens so I was lost when the company said they can’t be teens forever like ??????

[@Thesmus]

i do like ven para (i do have a love/hate relationship with the music production of the song) but i do agree that it was such a sudden turn that i almost confused them for a different group.

[@donuthetic]

I also stanned weeekly for their teen crush music... Now I kinda lost interest in them (Also jiyoon😭) I hope they go back to it

[@saturn2896]

their company should've done a bit like what FNC does with their groups. SF9 didn't debut with sexy concept, they started it later as they matured and all members were adults. CheBul initially were with a cute/funky one but they changed to a more mature one as they grew up. The concept should match the overall age of the group to not make ppl embarrassed or just not wanting to stan them bc the concept is "off" like literal minors doing sexy concepts (like Enha with Fever and Le Sserafim with Fearless, like umm they are 16-)

[@reannas2225]

I haaaated ven para so I def agree.

[@NinjaKittkatt]

Except that's not true for Weeekly. Their Ven Para album sold double the amount that their previous albums sold. Changing concepts actually worked well for them. They're actually a good example as to why groups swap concepts to match a trend. CLC was the same way where they got WAY more attention for hopping onto a trend. Then you have groups like Dreamcatcher and Purple Kiss who have tried to define their own concept regardless of whatever the current meta is and people don't pay attention to them (Or in the case with Dreamcatcher, it took YEARS and multiple fandoms coming together to finally give them the recognition they deserved)

[@eliclair2768]

The trend that is ruining kpop the most is stanning only new groups. Part of what makes 4th gen highly competitive is the fact that every year kpop stans (and specially korean gp) stop caring about the groups that debuted the years before. It happened to txt, itzy, enhypen, it's happenning to aespa and it's going to happen to all the groups that have debuted this year. In a highly competitive environment where people only follow new and trendy things and cancel culture is the norm, it isn't surprising that companies are debuting so many groups, with very little amount of songs and noise marketing. Kpop stans love to criticize companies without realising they are marketing experts that keep close attention to what YOU like and know where and how they can squeeze the most profits.

[@flyingcucumber9325]

Yes that's definitely the real issue. That's why older groups are also still trying to appeal the general public. Some of them are even changing their whole sound. This thing was always an issue for Kpop industry but I've never seen it like that before. Aespa was a literal monster in 2021 then they immediately give their monster rookie title to IVE then Le Sserafim then maybe Nmixx? Txt's album sales are good but their streams are too low right now and Enhypen is taking their lead immediately. Who knows which group will be the next trend but it's not okay for sure.

[@dickidsrip5262]

GP has not cared about boy groups in 10 years except bts and bigbang. Last bg group song that everyone knew was like growl

[@stelrex7293]

@@dickidsrip5262 Korean gp only doesn't care about 4th Gen bg's. 2nd and 3rd gen bg's are loved even today and their comebacks chart very well.

[@JustMe-12345]

@@stelrex7293 how many of those are still active?

[@aishijelly]

@@JustMe-12345 TLDR: There's still a lot of active 2nd/3rd gen boy groups. Amongst 2nd Gen groups, there's SHINEE, Big Bang, Super Junior. There's more, I just don't follow 2nd Gen groups as much. Meanwhile, amongst 3rd Gens there's a lot. EXO, BTS, Seventeen, NCT, GOT7 - basically if the group debuted around 2011 to 2018, they're considered as 3rd gen groups.

[@dobiinn204]

Agree with the single album, tho for me i like listening in one song in repeat, however i like it when they have many songs or b-sides in an album, so that i can choose or enjoy the songs. That's why i like Twice because they have at least 4+ b-sides in every comeback

[@MissyxAkunai]

I think the charm of queendom 1 that wasn't in queendom 2 to is the number if senior groups they had. Technically one of the biggest attractive factor was most of the groups were older, lesser known and groups who were really popular but had faded out from general public listening (they had a strong hardcore fandom but weren't as popular in the general public), with exception of mamamoo and gidle (who were newer and/or more popular than the rest but still broke expectations), and that's what made it surprising since there wasn't much expectation originally. But most of the q2 groups were already trending/well known (braves girls, hyolyn) or just too new (kepler, and technically viviz), with exception of WJSN and technically loona. IMO there weren't many performances from q2 that I would rewatch now and the impression they left wasn't as memorable and q1.

[@internationalrelations4973]

Personally, I can tolerate Xdinary Heroes and Hybe groups getting debuted. For Xdinary Heroes, they are not directly under JYP and they aren't a group, but a band which puts them in a slightly different scene from others. For HYBE, their groups come from different companies under them, so while HYBE has their hands on these groups, the groups can be seen as belonged to different agencies too. I'm not a HYBE stan though so this could be wrong. I only know this from my friend

[@Екатерина-р9х4с]

I agree with you! Also I feel like groups like Xdinary heroes, enhypen and lesserafim are pretty different from other groups of their labels and they bring something new and interesting to kpop. I'm not sure whether it's the same case with nmixx (their music is still too obscure to me) and newjeans but I hope their cases will be the same

[@itsnara3290]

You're actually right. People will think that HYBE is the one debuting the grps however they are just a part of it. It's the companies and labels under HYBE that's debuting the grps. TXT is under bighit. ENHYPEN is under Belift. Le sserafim is under source music. And the new grp newjeans is under Ador. Bighit, Belift and Ador are labels of HYBE while source music is a company or subsidiary of HYBE

[@seumin]

@@itsnara3290 same thoughts

[@FlagGov]

I would agree if it felt like the groups were substantially different from each other, but it doesn't feel that way to me. TXT and Enhypen are under different labels, but there is a fair amount of overlap in the key players behind the scenes like producers. Given the similarities in the members vocal techniques, I would guess there's some overlap in the vocal coaches as well. The fact that both groups have changed their style/sound around a bit also creates overlap. It'll be interesting to see whether this changes with the new group from Japan.

[@reflectionofthemoonitself]

Yes even Xdinary Heroes Concept and song is so different from other K-band.

[@gwgwap]

kpop companies need to stop debuting minors I am so sick of it like the youngest member of the new hybe gg is a CHILD.

[@kimzszsz1726]

Its been around for a long time and i dont think it will be gone soon. Still disgusting

[@straynayeon]

If JYP made AD MARE into: "O.O (Baila)" "Superhero" "TANK" NMIXX WOULD'VE MADE HISTORY IN A GOOD WAY

[@Sorayax073]

NewJeans isn’t under the same company as Le Sserafim, they’re under ADOR which is under the same label but is an independent company

[@cupid3110]

I think what the creator means is newjeans is marketed as hybe new girlgroup, and when I firstly heard about is them their introduced as "hybe be gg". So I kinda get it why he said "there's nothing new". Just an opinion tho.

[@armyblinkforever7273]

Stayc did not “fall off” with Beautiful Monster, that song is amazing

[@jace9702]

I agree

[@Lotsielots]

Objectively it is not at anywhere near the level of Stereotype, ASAP or Run.

[@Milena-ek6gm]

@@Lotsielots disagree, especially compared to ASAP, it's just qualitatively better

[@realnookes6482]

@@Lotsielots but that's not objective lol that's very subjective

[@absolutelynotarobot]

I think that's why I love Stray Kids so much, I listen to a lot of heavier hiphop, trap and dark synthwave, and I know that I can expect those influences in most skz non-ballads, and I'm never disappointed. Whenever they do something new, their sound and trademark is still so obvious. But I'm not saying it's because their better than everyone else, they have the huge privilege of almost complete artistic freedom, which sadly is very uncommon, most groups are just money making products for their companies, and therefore the companies will want them to jump on any current trend, instead of allowing them the chance to set the trends like skz has been able to do. It makes me kinda sad, because I've been wanting to find another k-pop group with a similar style that I can get nerdy with, but everytime I find a banger from another group, I find that the rest of their songs sound nothing like that.

[@furuyakeifu]

I agree! 👍🏼

[@Startpausing]

Stan skz for happiness!

[@bebaios]

Same! I like many groups but to me Stray Kids is the only one with many bangers, I like their style and the fact that you can easily identify it, their songs follow the trends but there is also a lot of thought and passion behind each song, Which makes songs potentially made to be trendy...real trendy songs. I've also noticed that a demonstration of their good production is that many of their songs age like fine wine time passing by: Domino, Easy, Maniac, All in, ...I'm talking about these ones, not the lead singles, the other tracks...that are very well done and recognisable. Like, can we talk about Easy? The structure is chef kiss

[@yuuskz4655]

i’m the same as well, it’s insane how every skz’s track has something to surprise me when i first listened to, not just the tiltle track. i do agree skz’s best previlegde is freedom in musical identity. it’s always exciting with every skz comback

[@Divergent1234]

I feel like the argument about jyp debuting too many groups is kinda void as xdinary heroes isnt an idol group its a band and as day6 are enlisting it makes sense to debut a new band and then with stray kids and jyp loud there was less time between got7 debut and stray kids than jyp loud and stray kids but you didnt see anyone complaining about their debuts being too close and debuting too many groups

[@cindyy7703]

Too many groups are debuting, I can’t be bothered anymore.

[@Mara-ig3st]

I'm not sure whether appearing on Queendom 2 was actively bad for anyone or whether what we're seeing is a bunch of groups/companies saying "it's summer- let's release a bubbly summer song!" all at the same time. You mentioned on another video that one of the reasons Lightsum is doing how they're doing right now is because darker, more mature concepts are trending, which seems to be true. Some groups or acts sort of own the brighter concept and do fine with it, even doing "summer" songs every year (or just... being Nayeon, lol), but I think a lot of the groups coming out of Queendom didn't read the room and picked a less popular concept for their post-Queendom efforts.

[@AnbuNinjaXIII]

Not to name names (cough) but of all the boy groups to randomly trend hop and try to sound like Stray Kids/Ateez, I did not expect Enhypen to be one of them. I feel like I will literally never stop talking about how disappointed I am at this rate but damn. The message of the album/title track is supposedly them making their own way and disregarding other people's definition of success and whatnot, but it's completely diluted by the fact that the songs themselves are just trashier rehashes of a style that other groups have perfected and done much better.

[@yenyen4114]

I was kind of looking for this comment 😭 I'm a casual listener of Enhypen and I did not expect them to have a comeback with a whole new image like, I felt so lost.

[@melonramune]

it's come to my attention that some kpop stans don't listen to the bsides of their faves, so it doesn't matter to them if they only release single albums💀

[@iexist8099]

The only groups I listen to their b-sides are SHINee and onlyoneof. The other groups I like, I listen to only their title tracks, if I like them. I listen to b-sides more from soloists than groups.

[@melonramune]

@@iexist8099 i have a question, do you try to listen to their bsides and just not like them? or are you just not interested at all

[@tokidama]

I hate that if a really good song has less than 50M views is a 'flop' but a bad song with 100M is a bop. And nobody wants to criticize that song bc they don't want the bigger fandom to get mad at them.

[@xaces5216]

I honestly not bothered by companies debuting a lot of new groups. I'm a casual kpop fan so i don't really explore very deep into a group (even if i stan them) unless im really into them. So i just stan the groups i like and honestly don't keep up with companies. If i stan a group, it takes me a lot later into my journey as that group's stan to learn what company they are in etc.

[@Valentina_Bae]

"Every group and their mother" 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@chuuu4610]

I agree with the over-debuting thing to a point but with SM I’m still recovering from Lami, Koeun and Hina not debuting to the point I wished Aespa was like a female NCT. SM is always packed with so many good female trainees…

[@gwgwap]

how can ive fall off when love dive is still on top 5 in every single kchart like???

[@saturn2896]

My main pet peeve is "[insert member name] & friends" a like what Yue Ha is doing with Everglow and Starship is doing with Ive. Like Mia and Wonyoung are not the only girls in their respective groups. If their companies wanted them to have all the spotlight, they why didn't they debut them solo? Their group mates are living in their shadow.

[@lovelypanda8676]

TBH the last point you make is partially the reason for aespa's huge success. SMent is smart for focusing all of their resources on producing one group with high quality content rather than dispensing them between 2-3 groups.

[@charliestan2z7]

Not many groups are debuting today. It was way more 2018-2020. Only 24 boygroups debuted this year so far lol

[@donyt4926]

JUICE YOURE MY BASELINE FOR KPOP RN DID YOU KNOW HYBE WAS DEBUTING A NEW GIRL GROUP!?!??!? THEY’RE CALLED NEWJEANS AND THEY LITERALLY ALREADY RELEASED MULTIPLE MVS BUT I’D NEVER HEARD OF THEM??? AND NEITHER HAD OTHER PEOPLE???

[@dubblebubbletoilandtrouble6646]

On the trend hopping one, and groups leaving their core image...man I hope that's not what's happened to Weeekly...I hope they go back to their roots, especially since they've lost a member and might lose some fans

[@yf.h.6352]

Honestly this is why I have decided to only follow ATEEZ and step back from kpop for a while. There's an abundance of new groups, all of them seem to be doing the same thing, and none of the music really sticks to me. I'm sure they're all great and super talented, but I just don't see the passion in these companies to produce good music or memorable groups. So far the only rookies to catch my attention are AESPA, I've checked out a few debuts but nothing stands out. I don't want to be 'that person' but ATEEZ are top tier when it comes to 4th gen groups. They have a unique storyline that allows them to stand out, they have a fixed group of producers [Eden-ary team] that creates music catered to ATEEZ's concept, their styling [hair, makeup, outfits] is always on point, and most importantly, their talent; vocals, dance, rap, *stage presence*, all come together to create what we know today as ATEEZ's incredible discography. I wish more rookie groups [more like their companies] took on the challenge to create their own image and really focus on creating music that suits them and their concepts, rather than constantly changing and chasing after trends. ***ATEEZ is having a comeback on July 29th, you wont regret checking them out just search 'ATEEZ guerrilla mv" thank you!!!

[@3299m]

loona's album sales increased though...

[@t1a2o35]

I totally agree with the last one

[@angiegie7283]

Trend hoping tho. I got Astro in my mind, i like their earlier release until all night. Other than no new release attract my attention or maybe i missed something?

[@halehvafai8700]

I really don't like single albums. At least for IVE because all they have released to this day were single albums.

[@gabdongipark]

i did not watch queendom as I watch Kingdom and experience so much toxicity. So, i did not watch it, i guess that many people did the same or just watch the performance but not much.

[@migu8328]

In general what ruins Kpop are these kinds of channels, and shorts comparing artists left and rights

[@rebeccasovoiu25]

First sorry for my english. I have noticed that in the last few years k-pop fans started paying attention only to the new debuting groups. They hop from group to group, always craving for someone new. And I have seen people say they already stanned a group even though they still had to debut! What no sense is this? Are these new idols ever going to have a loyal fanbase? K-pop is overly saturated, for god's sake, stop debuting someone new every damn month. They don't have time to glow because someone else is already taking the spotlight! I don't like what k-pop has become. I am sure there are incredible young idols out there, but it's difficult for me to keep up with them. Guess I'm going back to my SHINee playlist...

[@vanessarayfox]

This isn't a comment about the video, but the Queendom2 thing made me think about Kingdom2 - and how I'd love to see a video about which groups you'd like to see there.

[@icebreaker5303]

13:05 lesserafim is managed by source music not hybe (ex bighit)

[@isisisis1234]

I think you might be a little too generous saying these companies deliberately released bad music. I think they just have bad taste and thought they were releasing the next big thing.

[@kokoroai4358]

True with the Trend Hopping, especially Boy Groups they almost have similar songs in each release and almost all of them has a noisy element.

[@antonia208]

I'll be honest that the only post queendom 2 release I liked was up by kep1er even though its not my usual taste in music. flip that was ok too but loveade and last sequence for example were straight up boring to me

[@EllRoseMeakin]

I knew nothing of queendom in any way and now hearing that loona and wjsn stans are in a rivalry, I just have to ask where I'm meant to go cus I love both and I stan both. Also I didn't know that gidle and mamamoo and oh my girl were on a show. I feel like a bad fan.

[@MayaLove777]

I think it's hard for Kpop groups to be truly unique because there are so many groups nowadays

[@donyt4926]

CHECK OUT PURPLE KISS’S MV TEASERS IT’S LIKE PRETTY PSYCHO PART 2 😁😁😁

[@natmelen]

i completely agree on queendom!! i NEVER heard ab queendom 2 until i saw a kep1er performance recommended on my youtube 😭

[@ihatepeoplelmao]

Litterally i agreed with everything. And as for the single albums, i also think that a kpop album is very expensive, and investing that much money for 2 songs is kinda not worth it.

[@Genruin]

so true on the fell off term. going along with what you said, ive also noticed that if a group has a comeback, they’re talked about a lot in the moment but as soon as less and less people start talking about them and the comeback people say they fell off. like huh??? make it make sense

[@leeyes4405]

yes!! i’ve realized the exact thing

[@jamaisjeon]

people switch up all the time and it’s so annoying

[@txdang2009]

people's attention spans are way too short nowadays

[@hadliellehawkins1964]

i blame people's short attention span and constant need for something new

[@DeoxysDNA]

People said Twice would fall off when some people didn't like SIGNAL. Just puts into perspective how people don't know what they are talking about and just get in their feelings when a group releases one comeback they don't vibe with.

[@NoopyP]

Trend-hopping is the most noticeable of these issues imo and it is a bit annoying but it also gives a specific vibe to each year / part of the year which is kind of fun

[@asxtro7145]

Makes it boring in my opinion and honestly is a horrible decision for companies. If everyone is doing the same thing only a few will stand out and with everyone using their efforts to continue with trends they lose they originality and personal image.

[@reyses1x2]

@@asxtro7145 I disagree. As an example, Weeekly has gained more fans and doubled their sales after switching concepts. Some concepts are simply more sought out than others.

[@Justcetriyaart]

yeah but then the groups themselves lose self identity and any sort of differentiation from other groups. Add that you might straight up not like a trend and there goes a whole season of kpop cause everyone is doing it.

[@NoopyP]

@@Justcetriyaart totally valid opinion

[@HP-lq2wv]

@@reyses1x2 That's lowkey a misconception. People who bought their Ven Para albums are fans from previous promotions/before their concept change. I dont think someone who is completely new to them be like "OMG, this group do dark concept, gotta buy their albums". Also, for the record, they completely skipped Ven Para during their Dream Concert appearance and they all wear super bright color outfits during that event, so that maybe hinting that they wanna go back to that concept

[@NoopyP]

Definitely agree on the channel member's choice, having too many groups debuting in the same period of time can even be overwhelming for k-pop stans who will lose interest or step back from these groups or k-pop as a whole

[@noonebutme9420]

Literally that's what happening to me. Like I love kpop but every time I log on there's always a new group and the group that I'm stanning has already released 10 more songs in just 2ish months. Like I love the music but I feel so left behind that my interests have started to change into something that can be less stressful. Why is kpop so stressful nowadays?!

[@basil_is_unstable6613]

yea i agree. i honestly got overwhelmed by all of the groups debuting and comebacks happening (more than normal, being a multistan obviously i'm getting a lot of content), i stepped back from kpop. like i'm grateful that they're working hard and getting the attention they deserve but hELP calm down!! it was too much so i left lmao

[@basil_is_unstable6613]

@@noonebutme9420 exactly!!! i know they work hard but it's actually so stressful for fans. give the groups time to rest. not only do the groups ESPECIALLY need the rest, but the fans' brains need rest so they don't get bombarded with content.

[@reyses1x2]

@@noonebutme9420 Why can't you just follow one group? Where does this compulsion of following all groups come from? No one is forcing you to follow all of them.

[@noonebutme9420]

@@reyses1x2 it's not just a one group thing but more of an in general thing. With all of the new groups coming out you'll constantly get notifications saying "HAVE U LISTENED TO THIS SONG" on a daily basis. I understand that I can't follow every group but it's mentally exhausting when I check some kpop news and it's about a newly debuted group that I haven't listen to but everyone knows about. As a result of this I tend to feel a little bit behind because unlike most kpop stans, I am unable to know what is happening to the kpop community on a daily basis. So overtime due to the oversaturation I start to lose interest of the community as a whole and only focus on a few groups.

[@WooTwiceTeez]

I agree with oversaturation of single music, like I need to listen more from groups I found has potential to have good discography

[@frncnrll]

i def recommend listening to new jeans, they’re a new gg that has pre-releases

[@marks_friedeggs]

@@frncnrll i loved their song attention, the r&b vibes omg i need it on Spotify asap😭

[@nohere112]

As someone who has been a kpop fan for over 10 years now trend-hopping has to be one of the worst patterns i've noticed in kpop. It has killed soo many groups over the years. You will not and cannot build a consistent and loyal fandom by just hopping on whatever trend or sound is popular at the time. Kpop is way to saturated now and fans are looking for what suits their taste. They will have expectations for each group and unless the group is really big they risk losing a large portion of what would have been loyal fans by changing their concept over and over again.

[@multinsomnia5455]

Facts!

[@kayleighmay2557]

Yes! you explained it really well

[@sahwangshi]

you're right, i've also been into kpop for just about 10 years and i noticed that i'm having a hard time stanning groups with most of what's left of 2nd gen not being my thing anymore, a lot of the 3rd gen groups i like going through enlistment and disbandment and most 4th gen groups i like in general having really hit or miss comebacks as of the las few years

[@Anna-zp1ok]

Preach! Having a shift in concept is normal & can even work better for the group like how txt slowly shifted to a more mature & rock sound. However, constantly changing music & hoping on different trends for every comeback, results in a lack of music identity which doesn't allow for a loyal fanbase.

[@l.o..3368]

"Fell off" became the new "flop"

[@ellohmia]

Kpop stans are just throwing words around now a days. Literally when I first got into kpop nobody was like this, and if there was people would call them out. It was so much more enjoyable. But now EVERYTHING is about cancel culture and it makes me so tired. Like is this really what kpop has come to, it's literally a music genre and these people out here sending death threats?? Don't get me started with scandals, these stans do not gaf about the person nor anyone involved. They just want to hop on these trends...

[@internationalrelations4973]

The downside of social media's rapid growth I guess... I got into Kpop around 2015-2016 and while it's not as laid back as the years before that, it was still a better time than nowadays. Nowadays stans tend find fault in everything and make the scene less enjoyable 😭

[@makayla1374]

@@internationalrelations4973 kpop is a little less enjoyable now and I’m just speechless about it 🤦🏾‍♀️ 😶

[@ellohmia]

@@internationalrelations4973 times were honestly more funny, i remember when jokes were actual jokes and now it's about issues we shouldn't joke about, if that makes sense. There's still those people out there but I'm more likely to see hate than support at times

[@foreveryoung1215]

I think it's trendy right now to be negative and critical for funnies and to get a rise out of people.

[@chudiarys]

fr i can't even remember how many times ive heard people say "she's a pick me" for laughing- like if you don't know what it means just shut up

[@jamaisjeon]

"fell off" is so annoying… just because a group misses once with their release doesn’t mean they fell off 😭 not every single release is bound to be succesful or likeable… but also most stans use fell off just for one category, like when some group doesn’t get as many views in 24 hrs but still do well on charts and sales that doesn’t mean they fell off 😭

[@vaidehiii127]

ikr😭

[@jadeshepherd8627]

It's so overused! I hate it. I'm sure the annoying attention seeking brain dead stans saying fell off every 2 minutes know that, and just say it bc it's keeping attention on them. They know they sound stupid, they do it anyway for attention

[@ty-rw3hk]

My biggest issue with oversaturation is this: Idc about there being many new groups under one label, but I care about how such a higher proportion of active groups are from huge labels with large amounts of resources and funding. It’s pushing nugu groups further and further out of the limelight as the industry is already over saturated with groups from big companies so how could there be any room for those from smaller. I feel like the chances of us ever getting a group like mamamoo, gfriend, or even like loona and dreamcatcher who have shot to large popularity despite debuting from small companies is just so minimal now. Sure some nugu groups manage to get to some decent success, but there’s still few of those and the hope for them to really ever gain much popularity just feels so much more limited now.

[@splashsong]

I think it goes both ways. More groups are debuting BECAUSE there are more resources in the market as kpop becomes more popular internationally. As somebody who used to find nugu groups for fun, I really wouldn't say the number of new groups debuting has increased, but the number of groups staying ALIVE has certainly increased because of platforms like youtube, lives, etc. where small groups manage to hash out a living. Fans just used to not hear about nugu groups because they'd disappear after one or two years at most because it was unsustainable, but now groups stick around long enough to feel like they're competing for and losing the limelight possibilities. While maybe making it huge is more difficult because more and more groups are entering the actual competitive ring, big company or not, it's actually easier to stay alive as a small company.

[@FlagGov]

This.

[@rawr7683]

yea, and the fact that a majority of kpop stans only know and care about groups from the BIg 3 and HYBE makes it a losing battle overall for groups debuting under smaller and not well-known companies.

[@multinsomnia5455]

I was about to comment about Dreamcatcher🤚🏻😭

[@saturn2896]

Yeah... DC and Mamamoo saved their companies from going bankrupt.... I can only respect them as w/o Mamamoo, there would be no Oneus/Onewe/Purple Kiss. I would say the same for DC but they are the only ones in their company with a solid fanbase.

[@meicringei157]

Beautiful Monster became an instant favourite for me. I feel like literally every modern kpop song is being made just to become trends on tiktok. EVERY comeback now has "song name challenge" like, not everything has to be a challenge on tiktok, a song should be able to stand on its own without needing a tiktok trend to be popular. Beautiful Monster and all of StayCs music in general are made with so much love and they're made to be music not a trend. I recently became a hard core StayC fan and I have become so appreciative of their music and the girls genuine passion for it.

[@BigV24]

I'm a Swith as well but ASAP seemed like a perfect tiktok song tbh. Every other title track I'd agree with you that it has been about the music rather than trend hopping. Although without trend hopping they would've debuted with Stereotype instead of So Bad, so it isn't all bad.

[@CaptainBarbosa40]

So true man, i really loved BM , but seens people didnt like it just because its not the same cheap copy cat song most groups are releasing ....

[@alpacafish1269]

Same I also really liked Beautiful Monster. The lyrics were so heart-touching and the vocals made it even better since STAYC are very good at putting emotion into they’re voices when they sing. The dynamics in the song are also really good. I looked at the bts of the song recording and I was honeslty amazed, made me love STAYC even more with their unique and strong vocals.

[@kacey_k]

Agree completely. I appreciate the high quality of music they release and not follow trends. STAYC’s music is just so refreshing.

[@JaeMinJung.]

Another current trend ruining Kpop that NOBODY is talking about is "View Counting." While it may seem like a great thing since multiple numbers of views might mean that Kpop is gaining more attention and recognition it is also a bad thing and a small group killer, nowadays the notion that if an mv has a view of less than 20 million it automatically means the group either sucks or they are categorized as flops. Gone are the old days of Kpop when we care more about the music and artists delivering them and not caring about the views.

[@Style_224]

Yeah i miss those days when kpop was all about the music and not the view count

[@tokidama]

T r u e 😭😭 they don't care about groups with less views, if it has less than 50M it's a flop for them.

[@_knshoujo]

honestly loona and kep1er both saw huge increases in album sales post-queendom2. loona broke 100k+ sales in about a week, won 2 music shows, topped music charts with all their songs, and several of the members have gotten solo gigs or small group gigs with some of the lesser popular members. kep1er also had major improvements in their album sales as well, so i really think queendom2 went really well for them so far.

[@AriaLouisa]

Thank you for your positive comment

[@toriwork8891]

I agree that Kepler and LOONA have seen growth, LOONA especially. Not as large as G-idle or Oh My Girl, but LOONA took 2 wins for the first time against major competition (whereas their past wins, the biggest group they defeated was Brave Girls, this time they won over BTS and Twice soloist). Their sales also increased. You could make a case that Wa-Da-Da did better on the charts than Up, but it also got wins and increased sales.

[@sowhat1674]

I'm sorry, but kep1er would've been better off without the show. They were rookie with 1 mini album and don't even have their own song to sing for their own fans.

[@emma-wp9wk]

100% agree, they both slayed

[@lerikacosta3167]

I don't think they really topped charts

[@caramcp]

with the oversaturation thing i def think youre right but remember that "hybe" is a collection of labels and should *really* be treated as that, not one all-knowing all-seeing entity ♡

[@ericjiayu7408]

is a collection of labels but they are picky about who wants to support, it's clear that they bought companies but are going to "mark" them. also, groups like leeserafilm were marketed as hybe (bighit itself) first gg after glam, it's difficult to not treat them as one

[@xbaeksky]

they're pretty much the same now. when big hit acquired them they became the same thing, their music sounds similar, their restrictions are the same. specially the senior groups. even if they say they're different we all know big hit owns all of them as a single thing

[@nes9895]

@@ericjiayu7408 thats because le sserfim is specifically a group made in collaboration with source music and hybe look at their spotify description it literally says it there new jeans in 100% made by min heejin.

[@cherry.k.i.m9534]

@@ericjiayu7408 you realize that for hybe to have put in money to acquire a company they would’ve researched benefits. And calling Le sserafim Bighits first gg after glam isn’t a lie. It’s the literal truth so it’s not marking it’s an obvious statement. How you treat them based on that statement has nothing to do with the company or parent label

[@tatasvan-9802]

To be honest even tho they come from different subsidiaries they're still promoted and known as hybe grps. Only a few know and care about the sub labels. People are still gonna call them hybe grps.

[@mina_venus]

YES i’m so tired of the debates between songs like o.o and hit ya 😭 waiting for it to stop

[@th.7171]

I really love how oh my girl kept their concept even though so many groups changed their concept to girl crush or strong concepts the industry really needs groups like oh my girl

[@Falcon195]

Yess 🙌

[@AllieOk]

Twice mostly maintained their concept too

[@yuuskz4655]

agree!!!

[@GodOfWarBG]

Oversaturation is nothing new when an industry becomes big - it happened in movies, gaming, western pop etc. You just have to stop thinking about the fear of missing out and just listen to whatever you like, you dont need to know every group ever or check out all of their music. Keep in mind that if you ask for less groups to debut that means more trainees wasting years in the companies dungeons.

[@lvrxto]

Really annoying clickbait Beautiful monster is a beautiful song and it was lovely to see stayc do a concept like that

[@AlexTheULF]

"Fell off" Translation: Not a meme/viral hit. Kpop Stans want *ahem* I mean need every single Kpop release to blow their socks off and that's just not possible.

[@careen5859]

Watched dreamcatcher in concert and boy was I grateful that they were not in queendom

[@dubblebubbletoilandtrouble6646]

Haha what do you mean?

[@careen5859]

@@dubblebubbletoilandtrouble6646 Rather than spend time on queendom, they had a full album comeback with songs for each member, 2 wins, album sales of 136k (close to the winners of queendom 139k), performed in primavera festival in Spain, K-pop flex in Germany and had a usa tour for almost 3 weeks and are headed to mexico next. Those girls have hopefully made money that would not have been made had they participated in queendom. Hence why I was grateful. Once again, they dodged another bullet with queendom like they did with mixnine

[@dubblebubbletoilandtrouble6646]

@@careen5859 Ah gotcha. For a sec I thought you meant that there was something wrong with their performances or something and so you were glad they didn't compete lol XD That didn't seem right so I wanted to clarify. Good for them!

[@careen5859]

@@dubblebubbletoilandtrouble6646 I can see why you'd think that. The framing of my sentence was off.

[@dubblebubbletoilandtrouble6646]

@@careen5859 No problem! I was really happy for Dreamcatcher when they got their first win, way overdue and well deserved. :)

[@worstkiterchan9207]

Honestly if JYPe just kept Stray Kids, Itzy, Xdinary Heroes and Nmixx it would be ok. Why? Well, let's see: Stray kids - it's own niche style, bg Itzy - heavy dance group, gg Xdinary heroes - a band heck yeah! Nmixx - a vocal heavy gg. each group fit a certain criteria. That worked.

[@lennyanyn]

kpop stans just throw random words they read on twitter/tiktok and act like they know anything abt music istg

[@samanthakim5035]

The last one was so true When a new group debuts coming from the big 4, the majority of kpop fans will say *omg I'm gonna stan them* In my case, I would just listen to their music and that's it. I'm enough with 5 girl groups I stan.

[@xbaeksky]

big 3, there's no big 4

[@samanthakim5035]

@@xbaeksky Hybe is included in big 4

[@reveee.127]

@@samanthakim5035 nope it's its big3 plus hybe. Sure hybe has a lot of great artists but the big3 were the pioneer entertainment companies of korean music Industry and hence they're the big3.

[@samanthakim5035]

@@reveee.127 A lot of Korean news companies called now big 4

[@xbaeksky]

@@samanthakim5035 no, there's no such thing as a big4 and it it ever exists cube should be the fourth. we're talking about the pioneers of kpop, the ones that started everything we know now as kpop. even if "some korean news called them big4" is not valid, plus hybe is a group of companies, whereas the others are just one.

[@leo_jjh]

I have something to say to the facts “too many groups” and “only following trends”. I am myself am A HUGE boygroup stan, but not a single boygroup debut the last 1-2 years gained my attention. They’re all so noisy but in the same way, only following trends? Like I love ateez’s music and it’s noisy too but… different noisy? The new bg’s only blend in into each other and when not a single song catches my attention, it’s hard to get interested in the members too. Lowkey scared that’ll be at some point the reason I get out of kpop

[@immunityvi6968]

Literally... the last conceptual BG I saw is OnlyOneOf, where they stuck to sensual sexy music and they even remixed their covers to fit their sensual concept

[@i.nv.u]

Kind of agree. The only newly debuted boygroup that recently caught my eye was younite, because of their bright concept amidst the noisy debuts

[@thatoneATINYinthecomments]

Same, Ateez is like the most recent boy group that I truly stan, even as boygroup stan it’s been hard for me to really get into more recent boy groups. So much music that boy groups have been releasing all sound the same and it’s becoming over saturated, which is probably why I’m having hard time finding newer boy groups to get into. I think that latest boy groups that peaked my interest are CIX and Ghost9 and that was back in 2020.

[@twirlingcomet8185]

Literally same. I really like Ateez the most out of all the boy groups in the 4th gen right now. One thing I am really amazed is that they really stick with their storyline. Their lore are amazing, not even a big stan but I was so curious about it that I already watched some explanation about their storyline. Also checked their current comeback, and I actually liked it! It sounds so Ateez but not Ateez (because I think this is their first time to do this genre) at the same time. It’s just sad to see some stans that keeps on calling Ateez are just noise music but I beg to disagree. Everyone should check out their discography, they have so much to offer!

[@multinsomnia5455]

I personally got into some more recent bgs (EN-, P1H, XH...) even buying albums but I'm disappointed by Enha's latest cb direction. Like they'd something "original" when they debuted but this whole webtoon linked cb isn't for me😭 Ngl I'm still into kpop/music thanks to some artists that keep their music direction and don't stray too far from their "own charm"/"identity"! WELP KINDA RANTED 🤚🏻😃

[@_dalbit]

As the great philosopher doja cat once said: “talkin' 'bout I fell off, you ain’t even get on”

[@nomaz5193]

One thing that is ruining kpop for me is that I feel like most music nowadays feels more like it was made to trend on tick dock rather than releasing really good music.

[@PedroPony833]

Fr, especially with girl groups which often have similar girl crush concepts (would be fine if they all didn't sound so similar bar a few), or with boy groups and how they're all leaning to being loud and rap heavy (a reason why I dislike stray kids)

[@Style_224]

Omg same

[@haewonized]

Tbh stayc fell on with beautiful monster I’m just a casual stan of theirs but I’ve been streaming that album over and over again and I’m even getting the album it’s just too amazing like omg

[@FifthGate]

+1. I ordered the album last night! I got the "Power" version (the green one).

[@haewonized]

@@FifthGate nice!! I like both versions but I prefer the love concept but I can’t buy it for like a week or 2 bc I’m going on vacation so it’ll mess up the shipping or something idk and I need money so I’m working for it

[@Style_224]

Stayc is amazing

[@haewonized]

@@Style_224 yes 😌

[@ladiva7631]

"Fell off" "Ace" "All rounder" "Leaders" "Perfect"... and the list goes on. All of those lost their meaning with Kpop, everything is exaggerated and overhyped. In my opinion, there is only one Ace in kpop and it's Lee Taemin.

[@xxKDxx]

I respect your opinion. But there’s more artist who are fit in the “Ace” title.

[@huntywuntybunty]

seulgi.

[@vixxexo6855]

How can you say that after Queendom 2 where Hyolyn showed she is a true ace.

[@wonwoop]

is the though? ace really means to be able to sing, rap, dance, perform, produce, and maybe even help with developing choreography. at least that’s the definition i agree with and idk if he does all of that he’s mostly a dancer and a vocalist i haven’t seen him do much else

[@mxln2512]

not when hyolyn is also here

[@gigibee_]

I feel like trend hopping is understandable especially from smaller companies and I think its fine IF its done right, the group could still have a general concept and sound but mayhe add some elements of trends into while not completely changing their original concept for example if your concept is more dark but retro is trending add some retro sounds but keep it dark still or if your concept is cute and experimental is trending add some experimental sounds but still keep it cute Also I feel like if the trend suits your groups image then I don’t mind like txt and tbz doing retro ill be like ok but if skz or atz I would be a bit confused 😂

[@internationalrelations4973]

Now I'm imagining how that would be it ateez doing retro 😭 what would the sound be??

[@luisab3079]

@@internationalrelations4973 Maybe something like their bside Take me home

[@cherryfreckle]

Ateez have already done retro and tbh it's one of my fave songs of theirs 😊 but yeah it was only a bside so idk if it counts 😅 showed us what ateez doing retro sounds like though

[@Justcetriyaart]

my problem with current kpop, when it becomes more about costumes and 'story line' over music. music is why I follow groups, not for 'fantasy' 'timeline' or 'coming of age' stories. for that, I'll just watch a show.

[@PedroPony833]

Tbh I think having a storyline is great if the music is also good. Dreamcatcher dexecuted this perfectly by mixing kpop and rock together as well as having a fun storyline. I feel it's more dance kpop groups focus on which don't get me wrong, is nice, but I come to kpop to listen and hear some nice vocals and music. It feels like the industry is only focusing on dance nowadays and less on actual vocals which is really annoying.

[@Justcetriyaart]

@@PedroPony833 bascialy the same as what you said. I don't mind story lines, I enjoyed them at first, same with dance, but 1st thing is always the music. I don't like them spending so much money on costume, mv and storylines but not get great producers. Just like you, I don't like random instrimentals for the dance break that deson't sound good with the rest of the song

[@Thesilentvoice...]

Most fans aren’t there for the music that’s why most of the songs sound similar or unoriginal.

[@atzstar-ym6rp]

The single albums are so annoying, like legit the reason i don't stan ive is cus they have like only 4 songs.... like why?? I mean theyv'e been on the scene for half a year, but I'm starting to lose hope that we're getting more than two songs next cb

[@werefuckedbutihopewerenot2782]

Right???? Like groups really disappear for half a year and come back with only two songs?!

[@jAyBCD1]

I've noticed that people will say a group fell off, because they had a comeback that is less in your face, and more chill or softer based (a title track) too. I mean they're not using the term right

[@shsunoo]

Hybe is not a company but a label, its a difference. All the companies under Hybe are obviously gonna debut groups in order for them to be able to exist as companies. But in rest yeah, I have no idea wth JYPE is doing.

[@xhstan]

But tbh xdinary heroes music is good so jts good that they debuted them but idk about nmixx tho

[@shsunoo]

@@xhstan I stan Xdinary Heroes so yes I agree with you, and maybe if they waited a bit more with Nmixx? Just a few months idrk

[@amaryllisflick7813]

Okay so I just finished the video and as always, I absolutely love how you didn't shove the information down our faces and jut opted to calmly explaining your opinion. Honestly, I agree with mostly everything you said, although I wouldn't call the post-Queendom 2 thing a trend. And yes, I absolutely hate the term "fell off". Ive may not be in my Stan list, but the amount of incredulousness I felt (is this even the right expression?) when you said people were saying they fell off is just- wow. Thanks for the video! Also, your thumbnails are very click-baity like that they make people mad but when you get to the actual video it's just Juice being calm lol

[@knowlesknowles1356]

Oh no, I love beautiful monster

[@urliterallydogwater00]

I agree with the "trend hopping" thing and its something that I've been thinking about about a lot lately. I hate seeing groups that I loved for their unique concepts and music styles begin to to just do whatever is popular. It just makes it so that everything is too similar and there's nothing unique or interesting to listen to because everyone is just putting out the same stuff which can make kpop so boring because like who doesn't want a lil variety in their music. And when they start just following trends, its always so obvious how greatly the quality of their music drops.

[@multinsomnia5455]

Ikr!

[@sweetsamo1725]

The thing with JYP double debut is that xdinary heroes is a band so I feel like it’s slightly different than two K-pop groups

[@anirlarchivist]

i feel like the only reason i wasn’t getting exasperated at jype for debuting xdinary heroes (when they have so many other groups that aren’t even properly managed a lot of the time) was because xdinary heroes isn’t a kpop group, but a band. they only ever had day6 as their band, and with multiple members in the army, as well as jae’s departure from the group, debuting a rookie band with a completely novel concept and style that differentiates them from day6 was something that got me excited.

[@becca7546]

i see where u are coming from with the 'trend-hopping' point, and i agree with it to an extent, but i think that older groups changing their concept isn't as big of a deal. take seventeen for example, their early songs followed a bright, cute, often school-related concept, whereas now their comebacks are more mature, cool, or have a darker vibe to them. it was great while it lasted, but i feel like it wouldn't feel the same if they did it again now, as they are all in their mid twenties and don't look like school boys... seventeen were just the first group i thought of when i saw this topic, and i'm sure that there are other older groups that i WOULD agree to this point with, but i think if a group had an "identity" that they maintained through their concept, and if it really did stick around for a notable time, i don't think that identity ever went away.

[@RG-wo6ms]

Post Queendom 2 comebacks flopped simply because these groups have released better tracks in the past and their current comebacks do not hold the light to their past comebacks

[@ihaveabicbrain6344]

last sequence?? UP?! i just don't think so

[@lennyanyn]

last sequence, up and flip that are amazing

[@starbejby6353]

Up is literally way better than their debut song so idk

[@evan-vd4fu]

last sequence is like if YALLA was worse. lol

[@bluemoonlight9116]

right !! the only comeback i liked was up! !

[@all-the-star8390]

The most annoying thing about the term “fell off” is how kpop twt stans uses this term literally not even giving the comeback a month of promotions 😬 i mean i get how a bad quality mv/low streams in a mv may be labeled as “falling off” but I dont understand why theyd immediately use this without giving the cb a month yet 😭 plus labeling a group “falling off” just because of one bad comeback doesnt mean they’re not able to bounce back 😞

[@jkjkjkjkjkjk333]

New jeans songs are refreshing both Attention and Hypeboy I'm all for their music...

[@mang_o_24]

Oh my god I was worried that I was the only one who began to feel like some of these 4th gen songs don’t feel memorable enough . There are some good groups out there but your right a lot of the things we are seeing right now feel like trend hopping. They can’t seem to stick to a core image and and I can’t seem to get a sense of what some groups images are . 2-3rd gen we’re really good at giving you a clear image of what they want to represent. I love each generation but I would like to see a variety of what certain groups can offer instead of “going with the time’s”

[@MaraAnnelisa]

I don't know it's the same for k-pop, but I know that western artists changed to putting out singles instead of traditional albums because of streaming. It's called the streaming strategy. They do this to maximize music sales, because traditional albums just don't sell as well as they did prior to the streaming era. Hiller & Walter wrote an article about it in 2017, I had to read it in university. I can imagine k-pop is going through the same thing.

[@zxclv1661]

I think HYBE is reasonable as it’s a label with companies. Another thing is that all of these groups from HYBE have their own sounds and unique style that makes them stands out in this saturated industry. Like TXT is bringing some emo rock thing, le serrafim is going for simple and vogue like music? Enhypen with new concept every comeback (Given taken is so good) like txt and Enhypen is probably the two bg that actually sounds different in 4 gen. NewJeans’s attention has a sense of r&b. I actually appreciate that HYBE is trying to make the industry more refreshing by debuting these groups with specific style.

[@yoo_kween]

The fact that Starship ent. is trying to get away with giving Ive two songs per comeback and still gain popularity… idk, it just throws me off, I don’t like it. It feels like either they don’t care about IVE, or the exact opposite, and think they can juice out their popularity whilst getting away with minimal effort. I also don’t really like how Starship is putting in this minimal effort with IVE (not IVE’s fault, Starship’s), when other groups under their label like SISTAR and Monsta X busted their asses off to get where they are. While overworking idols is bad, and I’m in no way suggesting Starship do that to IVE, it seems a bit unfair that they can debut a group with little effort and become very popular, whilst other groups under their labels are known to be some of the hardest workers who get the same, and sometimes less popularity than IVE.

[@namanh8439]

For queendom 2, i do agree that it was disappointing to see all the participants didnot manage to achieve the level success they wish from the show. But a lot of things can be at fault here too 1. Rushed comeback I do understand the point of coming back right away after QD2, to capitalize on the popularity, but it doesnt always work like that. (G)i-dle's Oh My God wasnt a huge success, they even had a scandal with Soojin. Their success with Tomboy wasnt bc of QD, but bc of the song itself being THAT good. The same with Lovelyz and AOA and even Mamamoo. Oh My Girl was the last to comeback (half a year after QD1) but I believe it was a strategic decision. Non-stop and Dolphin were GREAT songs. In QD2, most participants came back immediately after the show, that led to the 2nd factor imo 2. Lackluster quality of music Loveade, Flip That were not terrible but not enough. They r not any better than their previous songs. I love Up the most and i dont understand why people slept on that. Last Sequence was also great but honestly it doesnt differ from their previous songs. No Thanks by Hyolyn doesnt stray far away from her typical hip hop music which has never been a public choice but her promotion has been pretty strategic. She was on a lot of show and even brought Sistar back on the final ep of Yoo Hee Yeol. So i hope the best for her 3. Lack of viral moments QD2 lacked the viral moments that QD1 had. The show went viral after the song-exchanging round, with AOA and Mamamoo making headlines for their stunning intepretation of each other's songs. Lovelyz was also controversial for their lackluster performance. But the peak was Oh My Girl's Destiny. It was everywhere, the most iconic moment of the franchise. QD2 other than Hyolyn's first 2 performances, didnot have that much to discuss.

[@cpamartorell]

I like mini albums…4-6 songs are perfect for my short attention span😅 If the music/concept is too similar between newer groups, it’s definitely harder for me to stick with any of them. I have to give it to MCND, P1Harmony, and to a certain extent groups like Seventeen and CIX because it seems to me they have stuck to their style from day 1 and still make it interesting! Thanks for the video👍🏻

[@osmanthuswine190]

The thing with WJSN is, Starship's marketing team is almost nonexistent. (Which at the announcement of IVE's comeback this August, fucking makes sense. They were focusing on their baby and moneymaker, which is fair, but hurts as an ujung.) While Last Sequence is good, they only appear in radio shows. Goddamnit. No other plans or whatsover.

[@zi6803]

Wjsn is now experiencing what Sistar did when wjsn debuted. This is common for a lot of companies, and I doubt it will ever change.

[@einnieniemah8655]

Well, starship is suck at managing their artists from the start tbh. Like, boyfriend, k.will, jooyoung, mad clown, etc. Like, God...

[@zi6803]

@@einnieniemah8655 yeah, but back then you could at be like oh, they are still a new company, they don't know what they are doing, but 10+ years later and nothing changed

[@alethiadali9201]

Starship is the worst enemy of WJSN, thay underprinted the albums TT so that ruined their chance for a win etc

[@Raphael-2]

13:08 Just two things to correct. Hybe is not a company like SM or JYP, it's multiple companies including Pledis, Source Music, Big Hit, Belift, Ador, etc... so of course there will be as many new groups as there are companies grouped under Hybe. The second thing is that NewJeans "Attention" was never claimed to be a pre-debut but simply a lead single part of the 3 title tracks of their debut. Attention is referred as their debut MV by the members themselves, and so are the other mvs coming. So it would be nice if you corrected this info somewhere (check out their site) because this misinformation is spreading so much and it's driving me insane, I mean the word " debut " is referred by the official site and the members themselves to talk about Attention and the other lead singles, what more do people want?

[@FlagGov]

The music, production, and choreo to have an identity of its own. (Seventeen gets a pass because their identity was established pre-hybe).

[@khajagogo1527]

Sm also have sub lable under them and they also have girls group and band and they are never promoted in their KZbin channel nor they train in sm building like hybe.

[@gracezb1]

i agree. mystic story is a sm subsidiary but no one was up in arms at them for having billlie and aespa debut close together

[@onepiece3076]

For those who don't know, Studio J was created by Jyp, it just a different division with a name. It was created with different vision back then that's why it has a name. But later became a sub label. (This is not similar with HYBE where they took different companies under them or joined together to create a bigger company or something.) This is different, it was created by the same company, and luckily became a sub label under the same company. Not a "different company then later joined another company" case. And most of the members was a jyp trainees. Actually it doesn't matter either way, under the company means under the company. So don't alienated the group or any group that have rights using those companies name, most especially XH.

[@jkrey417]

The only time I think single albums have been used justifiably was for LOONA’s 12 predebut solos. I especially hated the single album debut trend of 2019

[@bordge]

So when are we going to say that Debuting underaged children is going to ruin kpop?

[@everglowup]

it was when someone said "Ive fell off" that I knew I was done with this stupid phrase lmao 💀

[@yooniverse7313]

So happy you talked about "fell off" like I'm confused on what it's supposed to mean