Planing a Bridgeport Table... I really screwed up :(

Sorry the sound is wonky... There is a fixed version here • Planing a Bridgeport T... Something to do with the processing by KZbin... Well it happens to us all.... There I was finish planning a dovetail on the Bridgeport Table when disaster struck... This restore has been full of surprises, Most of them bad.

[@nickj2508]

A wise old machinist told me the difference between him and the apprentice is, he doesn't let people know about his mistakes. Keep up the good work. 👍

[@10swatkins]

Well said!

[@Sparky6547]

My late father was a tool and die maker for 50 years, he told me the difference between an apprentice and a master, is the master know how to make his mistakes disappear so now one will every see them

[@stevejohnson8435]

Hi Steve! Thanks for sharing your knowledge and mistakes! That shaper seems scary!

[@10swatkins]

I should come through the screen and slap you silly for calling my planer a shaper! :)

[@russelldold4827]

In my lifetime around machinery I never saw a machine with a conscience: given opportunity, they bite. Experience gives us options to fix what we broke. Thanks for sharing.

[@10swatkins]

So true. Thanks for watching.

[@Mr19Alex84]

hahhah they dont feel or forgive and no second chances .!

[@VanFlausch]

Shit Happens Steve, but you now how to fix it and thats workexperience^^

[@10swatkins]

Yep... Thanks for watching..

[@michaelwright4165]

Steve, now I know that you are human; all humans mess things up. I am very glad that there’s a good way out of it, and that you seem happy with taking it. It’s for just such a reason that I decided to get my lathe-bed flat purely by hand methods - endless scraping - because I was really afraid I might make a wrong move in machining it. For the return-stroke in your first operation here, going down the side of the dovetail, it looks to me as though it’s possible on your planing-machine (as it is on mine) to swing the clapper-box over on the tool-slide so that the cutting tool lifts out clear obliquely. For planing the horizontal surface under the overhang, you obviously do have to lift the clapper-box right up; but for this sort of case, and for jobs such as planing tee-slots, the old books suggest fitting a hinged flap in the clapper-box behind the cutting tool. It swings back out of the way on the cutting stroke, but at the end of the stroke it drops and, on the return, lifted by contact with the work, it lifts the tool clear. Lifting it by hand as you do is fine, but to manage without needing to do that would give you one less thing to think about.

[@10swatkins]

Yep, I am Human :) This clapper box does have a hinge... It's really a close fitting tapered pin that lets the box swing but in effect a hinge... The box is lifted by a hydraulic piston. The stroke of the piston is short so not much lift... I admist to not having played much with the clapper angles but that pointed cutting tool has angles that must be maintained to not hit the other surface and that along with the need to keep the clapper somewhat horizontal is what I would have to overcome.. The clapper box on the side of the table is different and fitted with springs to make is swing back into place for cutting... The top clapper does not have those springs and gravity is what closed the box once the piston is out of the way... I guess my logic is developed on the fact that the side clapper needs the springs to return it to position, and that keeps me thinking that the top clapper can't be shifted to the horizontal position....

[@michaelwright4165]

Steve, thank you for your response to my comment. The way your clapper-boxes are pivoted is just the same as every other planing machine that I have seen. If the joint is adjusted correctly gravity will return the top box even if it’s set over on the tool-slide, but of course the side-box has to be pushed or pulled back. I have never worked with one in which the box is lifted automatically, but it’s clear that one can - and you do - pull the box up further. So what I suggest is workable. See, for example, Franklin D. Jones, Planing and Milling (New York, The Industrial Press, 1914); figures 13 & 38 illustrate my points.

[@Rangitatahunter]

a very good place to have some damage = where it doesn't matter and wont be seen :-)

[@10swatkins]

That is true... That spot will not ever even be close to the saddle! Still sucks though :(

[@restoration-projects]

Thank you for showing the messups, I struggle when editing my videos to keep or leave out my mistakes. It's definitely the hardest parts of making these videos is to show ones mistakes so other can learn from you. Love the videos keep up the good work.

[@10swatkins]

You are so welcome!

[@brendanshorter5550]

Real crimes you only having 576 subscribers. Now I have 33 more videos to watch!

[@markfoster6110]

Think Don has been out tomcating . You had better ask him . Has he let the Ferret off for a run !!!

[@10swatkins]

I don't think the Cow and Horse will let him leave the property!

[@donmadere4237]

Got too many animals depending on me!

[@markfoster6110]

Steve is lost without you keeping an eye on him . I know what used to happen what happens in Texas stays in Texas .... But now it's all on u tube !!! Just shocking what you can see

[@leeroyholloway4277]

Even something as stupid as a part getting away in the drill press can serve as a jolting reality check. These machines love to get our attention.... and not in a good way. Glad everything was "okay".

[@10swatkins]

Thanks.,,,, I have a split fingernail that happened on a drill press years ago.. Reminds me all the time that simple things can still bite you!

[@4GSR]

Oh Steve, you noticed I haven't been back since the butcher knife incident...😒😒☹☹ Something about a sharp knife that doesn't feel appealing!!!

[@10swatkins]

Who said anything about the knife being sharp? :) She would not let you off that easy! Call me... Want to talk about those rails you found...

[@willemvantsant5105]

Hi Steve, redeemable with Turcite and will be a better job, the epoxy will fill that little the small void. Pity Don was not there, could have blamed him!

[@jeremycable51]

My understanding is the you only turcite the smaller bearing surfaces Like the saddle to make up for what you’ve lost on both surfaces but I don’t know much about it you could be right just seems like it would have a tendency to catch and dig on the larger surfaces

[@10swatkins]

The Turcite will not be on that surface... IT will be on the smaller saddle surfaces and used to correct the height back to the original levels so the screw is correct again... I will fill that gouge with Moglise to keep trash out of that pit... It's not truly necessary as that area will never get onto the saddle.

[@10swatkins]

It's not technically necessary for Don to be there to blame him for anything :)

[@bcbloc02]

You are getting lots of practice.

[@10swatkins]

I am over run with stuff...

[@10swatkins]

Sorry the sound is wonky... There is a fixed version here kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnKleYt4aMmJhpY Something to do with the processing by KZbin...

[@lewiemcneely9143]

I run behind myself anyway so no problem.

[@gorak9000]

It seems to vary with the clips in the video - right after the first "oops" when you're explaining what happened, the audio sync is much closer. I'll admit, you really got me with the second oops - I jumped almost as far as you did!

[@10swatkins]

@@gorak9000 It was weird.... I tried uploading it three times, it was always fine on my end.... I ended up switching codex in the program I used and KZbin like it ???? I reloaded it and the fixed version works fine...kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnKleYt4aMmJhpY

[@4GSR]

Thanks for the kind comment on the tool bits. You're welcome any time. Ken Edit: You should be able to turn the clapper block and compound slide so the tool bit will kick out and clear the cut on the return stroke.

[@10swatkins]

I just don't see how it will swing clear enough... There is not that much lift on the clapper. Maybe if I stick the tool holder way out it would swing enough when I am deep into the V... But that has it's own problems too...

[@Nicoya]

@@10swatkins The tool only needs to just barely clear the workpiece on the return stroke. If you adjust the clapper so that it's tilted just slightly away from the plane of the finished cut, or far enough over so that it splits the difference between the finished cut and an overhang, then the tool will just glide past the surface by a fraction of an inch on the return stroke. It doesn't need to lift far: clearance is clearance. Said another way, if you have a line drawn through the point defined by the cutting tip of the tool, perpendicular to the hinge of the clapper box, that line should lie somewhere in the angle between the finished surface and the rest of the part, either the uncut waste material or an overhang you're cutting under. If you don't feel confident about it, try setting up with a chunk of wood as a dummy tool and get a feel for it. You should be able to move the tool right in to the corner of the cut, and just pick up and swing the clapper freely without it contacting the workpiece. At that point you're good to go hands-free and can just let the machine do its work.

[@Metric_Metalworks]

There are planers Here in Germany by Waldrich-Coburg which where build as late as 1980 i think

[@10swatkins]

So something like 42 years ago :) It's hard to realize that the 80's were that long ago ....

[@paulcooper2897]

In your defense Steve, you are not just a machinist doing his job .. you are also a film maker, camera crew and producer ... that planer needs 100% of your attention, and I can easily see how the smallest thing, like locking the head, could get missed when you are also setting up lighting and camera angles! Shit happens! We learn and move on. Thanks for sharing 🇨🇦

[@10swatkins]

Thanks Paul.... There was also one other factor... I was on the opposite side of the machine from the main control station... I would have seen that lock from the other side... BUT I sure as hell will always check from now on :)

[@paulcooper2897]

And really, it could have been worse .. you could have also had Don in there "leaning" on the machine and throwing it out of alignment!!! LMAO!!

[@engineerwrecker8153]

Just blame Don, “Don! what did you do”

[@10swatkins]

Me blame Don ? Never ! :)

[@donmadere4237]

See I wasn’t there leaning on the machine!!!

[@donmadere4237]

Sure just pick on poor old me!!! Lol

[@engineerwrecker8153]

@@donmadere4237 Well apparently Steve’s Planer is calibrated to you leaning on it. Because without you leaning on it he keeps screwing up. Therefore I retract my previous statement.

[@donmadere4237]

@@engineerwrecker8153 now that make perfect sense to me 👌🏻

[@melgross]

Whoa Ateve! What happened to the sync? Ah. I didn’t see your post about this before I commented. I suppose I could cheat and delete my post, but nah.

[@10swatkins]

I even sent it in twice to see if it would be fix,, The video is fine when I send it to KZbin, something they are doing in the processing :(

[@silverbullet7434]

Not one machinist hasn't had a oops WTFH most aren't serious or fixable so we cuss a bit and then get the job done. One chip out on the end on top shouldn't hurt anything you epoxy it with titanium putty and file it flush then do your scrapping

[@10swatkins]

Going to fill it with moglice when I mix some up next time...

[@jackpledger8118]

I always heard that if you're not making mistakes, you're not trying hard enough. Great to see the process you go through to see what the cause was and what the solution is. Thanks for sharing.

[@10swatkins]

Very true!

[@thomaschandler8036]

Great work, good to see the screw ups. Let's me know that even skilled machinist make a mistake now and then. But the important thing is how to fix your mistake...

[@10swatkins]

I feel the same way! Hard to show the mess ups but I feel its best for everyone to learn...

[@TBJK07Jeep]

Well it could have been worse. Just make lemonade from you lemon. Glad you didn’t get hurt.

[@keithmonarch447]

Hi Steve, I'm certainly glad and didn't got drugged into this machine. Considering some of my mistakes, how about an engine block system and transfers the block into the next station. Almost got my leg caught as it was lowering down. Anyway, it was nice to see you do this operation!!

[@10swatkins]

Luckily Getting drug in is not one of the things I worry about on this machine!

[@keithmonarch447]

@@10swatkins I'm located in Michigan, grew up on the east coast, then a company called Dake, contacted me. Grand Haven was a great location for my kids. In short, Keith is now 65yrs and placed a little shop in the basement. Small mill, very happy with the Lathe. Been watching a lot of people whom placed out a video, as yourself. I really enjoy to have a quick conversation. May I ask about you and where you are located??

[@timmienorrie]

👍👍👍👍👍

[@swanvalleymachineshop]

She'll be right ! 👍

[@10swatkins]

I know... Still sucks though :)

[@donstallard8303]

why do you pick up the tool head at the end of the stroke

[@10swatkins]

The dove tail hangs over the flat way. I have to pick it up at the end of stroke so it does not hit the work piece on the return stroke... That is also why I'm using the special tool bits I show in the video, have to get under the overhang..

[@WillemvanLonden]

Planing a Bridgeport table...?

[@10swatkins]

I fixed it :)

[@johnb5519]

Your good to show us mistakes, so we can all learn what not to do. That bridgeport table looks like a toy on that planer. So you have to cover the machine with porcupine quills to keep Don off it, lol.

[@10swatkins]

Don Worry ,,, I bought enough to cover the table so he can't take a nap!

[@ericarachel55]

scared me and I was just watching a video, guess we all have those moments

[@nwliving]

that gouge and the chip are what JB weld is made for.

[@kens.8834]

It's happened to us all .

[@10swatkins]

Yep :(

[@lewiemcneely9143]

I think the Don-bot was after you and you'll do it right. You won't sleep till you do. BLESSINGS!

[@10swatkins]

Bots are everywhere! Hey maybe he is responsible for the sound being wonky too!

[@lewiemcneely9143]

@@10swatkins Very probably! We all know how he is!

[@jdmccorful]

Sometimes, recoveries can be great! Although, I am worried about Dons brass nut for his shaper. Thanks for the look.

[@10swatkins]

Oh no worries on the nut.... It's outside is machined and all that is left is the threading and oil pocket... I need my old 16" that is now Don's to finish up and Don hasn't take a bath in ages.... I stay away from there :)

[@donmadere4237]

Thanks for thinking of me John!

[@ypaulbrown]

Steve. wonderful video, glad it was only a minor flub a dub, best wishes from Florida, Paul

[@10swatkins]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@ypaulbrown]

@@10swatkins I bought a Planer Gauge last year as part of a deal, never knew exactly how to use, now I do.......wishing you and the Little Woman all the best, and Don too of course.....Paul

[@waynep343]

A video a few years ago showed planer production in India

[@10swatkins]

Yep :) Damn auto correct...

[@ypaulbrown]

Thanks!

[@10swatkins]

Welcome! And thank you, you are the first ever to use the donate button! I'll put it to good use :)

[@ypaulbrown]

@@10swatkins thought you were worth at least 2 bucks in your time of need......now go buy some more anti leaning red spikes .......🔺🔺🔺🔺🔺🔺🟫🟫🟫🟫🟫🟫🟫🟫🟫🟫🟫

[@charlottewilcox4406]

i just watched ABOM set up a woodruf cutter with a planer gauge, looks very versitle too me.

[@10swatkins]

It's simply a rough measurement tool. Sort of like the surface gauge I use a lot .. If you notice I brought out the indicators on the last step. :)

[@eugeneeman7710]

Fascinating process. I didnt understand why you cant just plane it to clean it up. I understand it on a lathe to get the leadscrew to not bind on the carriage but why on a mill.?Maybe a dumb question but i got broad shoulders and dont mind looking stupid.

[@10swatkins]

Well it needs to be really fine tuned and you could probably just put it back together but it will be worse than when you started.. You now have the gib to worry about making right and planing it has made the gib go in deeper.. When I'm finished the table will move easily from one end to the other without binding anywhere.. Worn out tables have to have the gib tightened up in the middle of travel most of the time because of wear there.. Tighten up the gib in the middle and most of the time it will not travel to either end of the table... Also you will need to scrap the table.. Planing and grinding do not eliminate the need for hand scraping, they are just the first step.. You need points on the ways to keep the table from wearing out too fast, stick slip, oil retention and proper alignment.. Mill also have screws! You have to account for the alignment for both X AND Y.....

[@timziegler9358]

Thank you. Your video was a timely reminder to me, to plan more, to go slower and be more patient in my undertakings. You worked through a trying situation...another very important lesson. Best wishes to you.

[@10swatkins]

Thanks Tim...

[@charlottewilcox4406]

sorry about the mistake.

[@10swatkins]

What mistake?

[@SecurityisaMyth]

I think you could call that a "Strategic Relief Cut" Thanks for making the video-

[@Jimmy-Legs]

$hit happens.

[@eugeneanderson7984]

It appears as you still have all your fingers showing your amazing skill.

[@ogaugeclockwork4407]

Thanks for sharing the mess ups! Always useful learning the less hard way! For dovetails, shouldn’t you be setting the clapper box to something like half the included angle of the dovetail?, regardless of what angle the slide is on so that the tool is always swinging into a clear area between the faces? (No planer experience, just a little bit of shaper time!)

[@10swatkins]

I have looked the problem over and I just don't see how I can get that tool deep into the V of the dovetail and still swing it clear... There just is not that much movement of the clapper...

[@billdavies6463]

I agree. In the video, the clapper box is directly in line with the toolhead slide, there's probably 15 degrees available each way.

[@Mr19Alex84]

i may have some tooling of interest there is hss and brazed carbide. thats if you could use the brazed on IThink it would most likely work then again i have never used a shaper or planer the tools are odd shapes i will email some photos. great work why have i only just found this channel

[@10swatkins]

Thanks Alex... I have about 5 different drawers of HSS and Carbide cutters already though... I tried carbide on this machine 7 years ago and all I ended up with was chipped carbide tooling.. The Carbide just does not stand up to interrupted cuts and the hard outer layer of the cast iron after stress relieving... The Rex AA HSS I have been using has lasted for years and is easy to reshapen...

[@Mr19Alex84]

@@10swatkins i thought that may be the case with carbide i know Hss will handle the interruptions an is easy to sharpen i still use Hss often

[@CraigLYoung]

Thanks for sharing 👍

[@10swatkins]

Thanks for watching

[@PeckhamHall]

I remember you saying that the saddle you're working on was warped by 0.6 mm I think you said, this was down to the clamp bolts distorting the T-Slot grooves production in-built stresses that produced the distortion. So is it possible you could just clamp the saddle down flat and machine the T-Stot grooves over size to remove the stresses and thus removing the 0.6mm distortion? Jimbo🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧 p.s great show

[@10swatkins]

Maybe :) I have heard of people trying to remove it by also peening the other side... All this is Moot when you have a planer sitting in the shop :)

[@edsmachine93]

Nice work Steve. Sorry to see you had a tough time. It will all work out fine. Take care, Ed.

[@10swatkins]

Thanks 👍 IT is fine . IT's in an area where it will never touch the saddle and when I mix up the moglice I'll fill the boo boo up :)

[@paulanderson2803]

And the wise old machinist knows how to fix said mistakes.

[@eugeneanderson7984]

First time seeing your work Ill be subscribing. Keep up the good work God Bless. Human is practice Divine is perfect.

[@10swatkins]

Thanks Eugene .. My grandfather was named Eugene ;)

[@michaelrandle4128]

All’s well that ends well, blame Don.

[@10swatkins]

Now there is a though! Never though of blaming Don for anything :)

[@donmadere4237]

Oh no I wasn’t there! Lol

[@GraphicManInnovations]

is that a surface plate at the end of the video?

[@10swatkins]

Yes, a 4 ' x 3' AA plate :)

[@GraphicManInnovations]

@@10swatkins is it supposed to be treated as a bench?

[@10swatkins]

Those are all scraped and precession parts there... Nothing will mar the surface... In fact some suggest to store scraped straight edges and angle blocks on surface plates to help keep them true.

[@GraphicManInnovations]

@@10swatkins ok thanks

[@stovepipe666]

nice machine

[@10swatkins]

Yes, thanks

[@robinghewitt]

I just looked up Turcite. There must be a better way and I expect you will tell us what it is 😁

[@donmadere4237]

Turcite is more than acceptable and common to be used on machine surfaces.

[@10swatkins]

IF it were a lathe I would use moglise on the saddle but its much harder to line up the bed of a mill.. Turcite is used all the time and works very well when rebuilding machines.. Remember any metal removed by scraping and milling need to be be replaces or accounted for somehow to keep the correct heights for all the screws and bearings to work properly,

[@chrisgreig5628]

Don Get better , we need you to keep , up with everything ,

[@10swatkins]

HE is not sick... He just does not want to get sick and I have been around a lot of people because of this last play... The chances of me getting it and transferring it to him is what we are worried about... IF he gets sick it's up to his horse and cow to take care of him... I ain't doing it :)

[@chrisgreig5628]

@@10swatkins so he needs a nose bag for feeding , tell him to come around and park on the Grass, it will be a cut above anyone else thanks for the Video ,

[@4GSR]

@@chrisgreig5628 Hey, wait a minute! That my parking space... Was momentary, until the butcher knife showed up with Steves wife holding it, forcing me to relocate! Lol.

[@donmadere4237]

Oh I’m not sick and that’s why I’m home trying to stay that way!!

[@chrisgreig5628]

@@donmadere4237 see you soon Best to be safe

[@stephenvale2624]

Audio not synced to the video

[@10swatkins]

Yep.. I even said so in the top pined comment and the discription... Something KZbin did in the processing... The video I uploaded,. TWICE, got screwed up when they processed it :(

[@paulpipitone8357]

Hmm. some people might say oh boy Steve is getting forgetful and that is why he screwed up.. Not me i know the real reason its all Dons fault, you made fun of him with the pigeon wire at the start of the video and he used his voodoo powers to get even LOL...... Lesson Don't mess with Don LOL

[@donmadere4237]

That’s right you don’t mess with a Cajun!!!!

[@10swatkins]

I'm going to line the walls of the shop with lead to thwart him!

[@garyeuscher4499]

An experienced machinist knows how to fix mistakes