PLANS For the 5TH CHAOS GOD REVEALED! And Three HUMANS Who Could Ascend | Warhammer 40K Lore

[@SandmanofTerra]

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[@bobsterclause342]

You didn't even mention the daemon king, unless i am mistaken. Come on, it's got to be the daemon king, or wait no, maybe... And what about malice? First of all, malice already goes into the materium unlike the other gods also, why can't the daemon king and malice be best buds? I mean, it would make going into the material universe easier if it's actually the daemon king on malice's behalf, and unlike tzinch being an idiot, malice doesn't have to worry about the manipulator of zinch, because his nature would effect the king to where he isn't an issue. The was a khorn daemon who simply was exposed to tzinch saying he bets khorn is weak and could be defeated by him and the idiot not only agreed but was a khorn daemon who would never sucker punch khorne (or anyone) from behind. like come on, his nature was altered. There is no way a khonr daemon would dare be a pathetic little pussy. I mean khorn even said he wasn't angry at the low popwer of the attack, but the pathetic cower dice of it, and khorn doesn't lie.

[@DeathSithe92]

Sorry sandman, but I am already the 5th, betta luck next pal, mwahahaha!!

[@memesofwarhemmer7076]

Malal: I took that personally now it’s anarchy time

[@OrkOfOhio]

The 5th Chaos god is Caiaphis Cain. God of luck.

[@TheRaven-WingGaming]

I think once the Emperor dies and is "reborn", it won't be as humanity hopes it will be. The long 10,000 years he's been on that throne has probably made him very very bitter.

[@SandmanofTerra]

I'd definitely be a bit grumpy 😂

[@kettelbe]

And cranky lol

[@jenswurm]

He'll have so many things to complain about...

[@charlebrownga]

Stop smearing oil all over my throne room...

[@okupant880]

And the Terror and Madness that the resurrected Emperors rant brought to the administratum and ecclesiarchy was so fierce, so vile and so not angry, just disappointed that hence forth the Emperor was known as THE DARK KING and all feared starting another 20 year long rant.

[@reddeltasev07]

Idk all this business about a new chaos god but Commissar Yarrick should definitely be resurrected as a third Ork god out of the collective respect of the orks for him. I feel like he'd fit right in as part of a trinity alongside Gork and Mork "Listen up ya gitz, anyone who's a proper Ork knows Gork and Mork. One of em krumps ya when yer lookin', and the other one krumps ya when yer not. Ol' Bale Eye? Well he takes a krumpin and then krumps ya right back even 'arder! Coz what's the point of bein' an Ork if you can't have a proper zoggin' scrap every now and then to remind the Boyz what the WAAAGH!!! is all about? Ol' Bale Eye was as Orky as they come, no doubt about it."

[@SandmanofTerra]

Love it 😂

[@freefall945]

Gork, Mork and York.

[@sikozen]

😭😭 It’s like I can hear the voice… ❤

[@LoneSilverW0lf]

Now I’m imagining the fit the Inquisition will have if Yarrick just appears during an Ork Waaaah on the Human’s side. Suddenly becoming a Demi-god of sorts to the Orks but who fights against them will definitely raise several questions.

[@SilveradoNL]

He should be called Zork!

[@Whatevs13]

If the Dark King card was laid across the Emperors card in the tarot deck, could that not also indicate that the Emperor will be "reborn" as the 5th chaos god?

[@giantninja9173]

With it laying across it could also just be the fight between Emps and Horus. Horus died but he came out on top. It’s over for him but everyone else has endured actual hell in the aftermath for 10,000 years.

[@SandmanofTerra]

Definitely a possibility. That's pretty much what I'm saying in the Emperor section

[@Whatevs13]

@@giantninja9173 fair point. Speculation abound!

[@ximbabwe0228]

That was a rules card they accidentally kept in the deck

[@licensed_beheader]

​​​@@giantninja9173 Deep down even after his corruption Horus didn't really want humanity to suffer sure he was gunning for godhood or something like that and wouldn't mind slaughtering anyone in his path but I don't think he had any sadistic intent of course save watching the emperor burn and squirm so the hellhole that is the imperium really wasn't his objective. Don't forget he wasn't really sold on the tendencies of chaos as holy work like word bearers for example but only used it as means to an end. In his early musings before his descent into whatever twisted mental state he ended up in, he even mused on the disgusting actions of the chaos worshippers and daemons and it's revulsion.

[@thesilliestgoose5990]

Imo I think the Minor Pantheon of Chaos could be really interesting, consisting of Vashtorr (God of Technology and Invention), The Emperor (The Anti-Chaos God of Faith and Sacrifice), Be’Lakor (God of Shadows and Fear), and Malice (God of Destruction and Anarchy)

[@codyyoutz]

The emperor is going to be the god of order

[@jordank3203]

@@codyyoutz i think faith and order tbh. he needs people to have faith in him to continue to build power in the warp but order also keeps his realms together. just like some Chaos gods have multiple aspects and personality's

[@TheYgds]

There are, after all, eight points on the Chaos seal.

[@giantninja9173]

The Emperor the entire time being like the dude in Stranger of Paradise. I’m going to kill Chaos. Now turned “how long have you been planning to turn me into Chaos?”

[@thesilliestgoose5990]

@@TheYgds see this guy gets it

[@samblackstone3400]

I think the nids reaching terra is going to be essential to this plot point being fulfilled in the current era of 40k. Perhaps in the fight the Golden Throne will be destroyed, freeing the emperor’s soul and his vengeance in the form of a new warp god.

[@kettelbe]

Terra is much more heavily fortified now it ll be a sight to behold !

[@LutherMahoney]

You may be on to something.

[@jean-gisele295]

​@@kettelbe intense attack from everyone. Absolute chaos ! Perhaps Terra will survive, but the throne Can be destroyed no ,?

[@bluemobster0023]

​@Jean - Gisèle well it is an ancient relic made by the necrons so it probably has a self destruction sequence

[@chrisharris54]

Oooooo, I like that idea! SOMETHING is gonna happen, something major, because how will all of the Tyranid fleets be dealt with? Will the various factions come together with a "cease-fire" or something similar in order to keep the Tyranids from eating everything? It's in Chaos' best interest for the Tyranids not to destroy everything as the Immaterium NEEDS mortals in order to "fuel" it (That's an over-simplification but it makes the point) :)

[@AlexanderForsman]

I think Lorgar is the reason there is no "Dark king" after HH. His main goal after all is to avoid humanity suffer the same tragedy of the Eldar.

[@inkpenavengerYT]

Plot twist: Becoming the Dark King was the Emperor's plan all along. The whole point of the Imperium and the Great Crusade was to cultivate a crop of quintillions of sacrifices for his apotheosis.

[@SandmanofTerra]

Could well be! The writers always try to leave the door of "the emperor is actually the true bad guy", a little bit open

[@inthefade]

It seems the most obvious thing to me.

[@prettzx]

Would that make ALL Astartes "chaos space marines"?

[@luiziry]

​@@prettzx all custodes at least

[@markotavra692]

There is something that doesn't fit, even if it looks good. An emperor becoming a (dark) king ?

[@PelinalDidNothingWrong]

The idea of Horus becoming the 5th Chaos God had he succeeded would be interesting. Imagine a timeline where this happened....

[@SandmanofTerra]

Could have been wild!

[@URKCEHinoSuu]

I'll tell you what happens!! Humanity goes extinct within a few centuries. Thus, primary source of chaos, gone. Thus, chaos gods gone. Thus, the 40k universe is now peaceful but without humans.

[@zeropsaft]

​@@URKCEHinoSuu actually all sentient life must be purged for chaos to die. ALL.

[@zwan6740]

What attributes would he have?

[@thedrunkenoutlaw]

@@zeropsaft ah, so Tyranids or Necrons need to win. Fun.

[@AidenS1234-t7x]

It’d be cool if instead of it being a chaos god the “Dark King” was instead the Outsider and the whispers of it tell of a time when it would be free of its shackles. “The jibbering mindless husk of a man was brought to stand before Gulliman. The person stared straight ahead, not looking at the primarch, but through him, to somewhere beyond. As it stood there it whispered a single name. So quiet was it that even the Astartes could not hear the words, but Gulliman could. He heard the name spoken on the mad man’s lips and felt fear. Fear of the Dark King.

[@kadenchastain9853]

Not only an unshattered c’tan but the most powerful one returning would be sweet

[@Gargoyle364]

Malal: *sobbing* I will be relevant again. I will, I will....*cries*

[@protoclone138]

Emps is purging himself of his pact with chaos to make the primarchs and sm. The dark king will be this aspect. This will also mean there is a pure aspect, the light king. They are the same but different. Always chasing each other in an eternal hunt

[@davidmacias1270]

Like Gork and Mork!👍

[@protoclone138]

@@davidmacias1270 But the dark king is brutal and cunning while the light king is cunning and brutal...damn, it is Gork and Mork cosplaying!

[@PelinalDidNothingWrong]

Human's aside; I'd love to see Vashtorr or Be'lakor become the 5th Chaos God

[@SandmanofTerra]

Could be cool!

[@memesofwarhemmer7076]

@@SandmanofTerra malal: fool are those who wish to call themselves gods but what truly matters is actions

[@lostsanityreturned]

I wouldn't mind a triumvirate. With all three being required to ascend but share the power of a single god. The god of humanity.

[@3Xero3]

Maybe Be'lakor since Vashtorr basically subsumed his limited 40k lore and position as the lord of the Soulforge? Though sadly it will likely just be a new or former traiter astartes since they are the poster-boys for the whole thing.

[@axios4702]

The fact people are talking about a 5th Chaos God and forgetting Malice annoys me to no end.

[@ActionQuackson]

Wow! Super interesting! In my own head cannon the emporer could potentially have sneaky Pete tricks and has a way to reclaim the primarchs after apotheosis and is trying to replace the dark gods with himself and the primarchs.

[@veasnatdm4861]

The dark king I feel like it have been refer to in some of the most famous line in WH In the grim "dark of the future", there is only war or The reference to The emperor always show sign of his divinity in Humanity darkest hours to help turn the tile. If the emperor will become the dark king, they can make use of those reference to build up more hype. I'm still new to the series so if anyone have more reference please tell me.

[@XDwasGone]

"We shall deny Nurgle their flesh to fester and rot. We shall deny Khorne their blood and skulls. We shall deny Tzeentch their destinies and fates. We shall deny Slaanesh their pleasure and pain. Death to the Dark Gods! For the Renegade God! Let the galaxy burn!"

[@sandrothenecromancer6810]

Malal the wildcard in in the great game.

[@dezmobil2803]

May chaos take the worlds...

[@jccole7092]

As terrible and ironic as it may sound, it's hard to imagine any human other than the Emperor himself ascending into Godhood.

[@renevil2105]

I think Big E would become a Chaos God of Order. The dark king need more information on it. If it up to me it be Sanguinius that was brought back too life and changes of the blood rage that consumed him and his dark half of his soul is in control. Cause terms like Fallen could also be used on those that have died in battle.

[@inthefade]

Big E order? The guy successfully turned the whole human race and his sons all into competing factions with contradictory goals.

[@jmgonzales7701]

i think he should not be a chaos God, rather just a god of order.

[@renevil2105]

@@jmgonzales7701 gods of order are chaos gods since they want to bring death too all life for perfection.

[@jmgonzales7701]

@@renevil2105 order and chaos arent compatible

[@renevil2105]

@@jmgonzales7701 technical yes, but that's not what GW wrote. Each Spike arrow in the symbol is to be a different god. 9 of those are God's of order they are considered chaos simple cause they use war to wipe out all life. Chaos is neither good or bad has elements of both. But the Big 4 band together and seal all of the gods of order to prevent the death of cosmos and the wrap. That they love having followers.

[@williamsu2148]

I feel like the Tyranids are fit to potentially be the foundation for Malice to be the official 5th chaos god. The absolute consumption of all bio-mass in the galaxy seems to be aligned with the parasitic and destructive ideals of Malice.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

Except the Nids are all about growth and Survival which is opposed to Malice

[@cnut7383]

@@ryansauchuk7290 yes but what happens when they devour all other life?

[@codysmith66]

@Cnut They find another galaxy to devour like how they were introduced originally. 🤣

[@cnut7383]

@@codysmith66 but what about the implication that the rest of the at least local universe has already been devoured. The hivefleets have come from all directories and I think this is old lore but all the silent King saw outside the milkyway was nids and orks

[@antonzhdanov9653]

@@cnut7383 Well, Szarekh didn't travel through whole universe, but from the outside of galaxy, where he made scout fly, there were only orks and nids indeed. Considering how much biomass nids have already, they have already consumed at least their native galaxy, likely more than one, before travelling into new as well as they already traveled past Milky way in hibernated state for economy of energy and biomass, except, now they receive signals about galaxy to devour, awaking and turning back from all directions.

[@XmortoxX1990]

I think Vashtorr could still ascend to a minor god and the Dark King to become real. Truly intriguing if this is true, but honestly sound like a 40K Endtimes situation to me

[@rellikskuppin7417]

I think the dark king is what Horus would have been if he had won. Becoming the 5th chaos god is canon in the same way Vashtorr is trying to - Via a cataclysmic event but for Horus if he had struck the emperor down he would have ascended but dope

[@cursedkei66]

Not exactly. There was a section where the demons chanted the Dark King's name and it wasn't Horus. I believe Chaos intended it as a sure-bet, either Horus wins and ascends or the Emperor wins and ascends. My suspicion is that Oll will be the one to forestall the ascension of the Dark King.

[@rellikskuppin7417]

@@cursedkei66 could be fa sho.

[@Cyrus-rodn45]

But vashtorr got his artifacts to become a god. He has the key

[@rellikskuppin7417]

@@Cyrus-rodn45 the key is to blow up the webway at the imp palace on terra causing so much devestation bad feels etc its equal to the birth of slaanesh. Horus wouldve have "burned the galaxy" with killing the emperor ascending him, also he went into the warp and had real deals with the chaos gods to get it to go down.

[@ernimuja6991]

The Dark King will certainly be a thing as he already exists. Forget where in the book it is stated, but Chaos gods have "always" existed and at the same time they are born. Time is not linear in the Warp, so the Dark King already exists in the warp and has taken his place in the pantheon, he just needs to be born.

[@stephenkellett7836]

If they want to go the route of a renegade Chaos God who opposes everyone else, Konrad Curze fits that better than anyone else afaik. Him returning and taking the Nightlords (after purging the elements he hates, of course), other Chaos warbands, and even some loyal Imperial factions to become a rogue force would be really interesting.

[@iusethisnameformygoogleacc1013]

Except Kurze is already long dead. Not almost dead or lost but he died permanently in front of a ton of witnesses.

[@stephenkellett7836]

@@iusethisnameformygoogleacc1013 died permanently? Uh, no, not at all. He was hinted to have a soul stone and his soul wasn't destroyed regardless

[@kivklop5410]

I would love to see Konrad Kurze become a chaos god 😊

[@ashtherion]

If you're going down that route, I'd say odds are more likely that Corvus Corax is going to end up being the Dark King. For one, he's not canonically dead and after wandering the warp for 10 thousand years, I could easily see him picking up some more...Kurze-esque traits and adopting the mantle of the Dark King as his own warp powers grew, blending in and out of shadows to strike, devour and consume from stealth, wielding darkness as his very weapon. (Also personally I think bringing Kurze back would actually undermine a lot of the Night Haunter's character, as a murderer with a twisted, but nonetheless incredibly forthright sense of justice, one that refused to let him see ANY evil spared, not even himself. It's not like he couldn't have easily killed M'Shen if he wanted to; he literally asked his entire legion to stand down and let him be slain. He knew his judgement and he accepted it, because he knew he was a monster, even if he thought he was right to have done what he did. Never let it be forgotten that the 8th was the only legion to exterminatus their own planet.) Although in all honesty, I still think Emps is the main candidate for becoming the Dark King. There's only so many characters who are significant enough to the lore to justify ascending them to true godhood (as opposed to daemon princedom, which seems about a dime a dozen, depending on the writer), and well. The Emperor's literally called the God-Emperor, humanity has been feeding him a thousand psykers a day and innumerable prayers for ten thousand years, and his light in the warp via the Astronomican is literally so bright it might have drawn the Tyranids from outside the galaxy. Which is a god-level feat that alters, enables and defines so much of the setting that it's comparable to Slaanesh ripping a hole in reality to create the Eye of Terror. If you can't imagine 40k without the Eye of Terror, I'd say that you probably also can't imagine what the setting would be like without the Astronomican enabling human warp travel (actually you probably can because the last time humanity lost the ability to warp travel, humanity literally entered the Age of Strife). So yeah. "Become" the Dark King? Fucking hell, the Emperor already IS the Dark King.

[@c0ya1]

whelp, humanity going the way of the aeldari is a sad yet cruel twist of fate.

[@onapersonalnote7045]

The Dark King is the vengeful Emperor, clearly

[@dicksoncider5099]

Yeah, I feel like there is some minor overthinking going on in this comment section, lol

[@abreecs3511]

Plot Twist: The Dark King is Corvus Corax, who ascended only to still be loyal to the Emperor (and most of humanity), solely to spite and betray Lorgar at the very core of his beliefs just as he did to Corvus at Istvaan. Afterall, what is Lorgar going to do, worship Corvus, his fifth new deity? Turns out Alpha Legion and Valdor were also in on it, and it was about the traitors we truly eliminated along the way, not the means. The elves tried this but got too greedy and indulgent with Ol Thirsty, you needed a viciously loyal, focused alpha nihilist like Corvus. The Dark One and Alpharius now sometimes debate whether they should resurrect 'ol batboy as their champion since Valdor is off doing Valdor stuff for this burgeoning new quasi-loyal so-called "god" business empire since Lion has backed out with his "redeemed". If Guilliman and the Lion can't keep the lights on, the last ones out should hit the switch and with a vengeance. "I haunted the night, but Corax owned it." -Conrad Curze

[@larsickenroth7169]

Three thoughts and a question: 1. Malcador has mentioned that he and the Emperor had always known part of the Primarchs would have to fall to Chaos. So perhaps in nominating Horus as ‘the best’ (which, objectively, he wasn’t) he offers up his son as a substitute for his own debt in a Faustian bargain. 2. When a ‘prophet’ was mentioned, I immediately thought ‘Lorgar’. 3. If the Emperor would ever return (and it has been hinted he’s been growing his strength), millions of souls would have been sacrificed for him in the proces of all these years, which: even if he didn’t formally become a Chaos god right away, he would still have exactly the same profile as one of them (if not worse). 4. Lastly: the fall of the Emperor (which: to me doesn’t sound very plausible, even if just because the basic premise of 40k would cease to exist) would create an interesting scenario for the primarchs and essentially flip the board of all the believes, resulting in even worse Zealotry, trying to prove their own moral righteousness without being able to point to a higher power. Personally, I believe the Emperor will never return, and he knew so going in. He recognized human nature and (in purging all original religions) set himself up to be the new central ‘higher goal’ that any human or astartes can weigh themselves against.

[@larsickenroth7169]

In addition: Rereading Master of Mankind, I'm struck with this idea that (although obvious to us as 'puppeteers' of all the factions), the Emperor's core story is that of Prometheus. Prometheus (who's name means 'forethought', but also 'to steal'/'the thief of fire' and later 'Herald of the Titans'), starts out as the son of a Titan, tricks Zeus during the 'settling of accounts' between mortals and immortals, upon which Zeus takes back fire from humanity as a punishment. Prometheus steals the fire, giving it to humanity in the form of technology, knowledge, and civilization, which enrages Zeus. This story ends with Prometheus being chained to a rock, having his liver eaten by a giant eagle each day (it regrows). Parallels being: he is heralded as the 'champion of mankind', his role is to bring 'light' to humanity, furthering technology, knowledge and education, and he ultimately suffers for this by being tied to one spot, effectively dying over and over each day. And the core of his story is to do with the 'settling of affairs between mortals and immortals'. Of course there will be multiple stories that 40k has borrowed heavily from, but what if the very thing the emperor 'stole' from the Chaos gods, was not just fire, but the concept of worship being the very thing that strengthens them. Realizing that, if humanity is to thrive/survive at all, they would have to become somewhat united around a common goal, channeling their strength through this conduit. And he somehow lures one of them to share this knowledge in a bet. This would also make sense of his overall mission, and though he would have preferred to have placed Magnus on the 'conduit' spot, ultimately he has reached his goal: to suffer each day, so that humanity is more united than broken, giving them a fighting chance, as opposed to just being pawns of the gods.

[@cainabel6356]

So you are saying, on the last part, is that the Emperor knew he was going to be worshiped, which would ascend him into a higher being? It was all according to his plan? I guess that would make it so, seeing how he did destroy all other religions. That makes sense to me.

[@larsickenroth7169]

@Cain Abel It's a part of it. If you really want to know, here's my reading of it: Just like the 40k universe at large, the Emperor is this very broad spectrum of nods to all kinds of great stories, both historic and fictional. Though I really don’t know the process of how they came to this setup, you really have to applaud it. The 40k universe is set up in such a way as to permit endless expansion and contraction. And yet, it’s characters make it personable and allow us to enter. Core idea: the stories we tell ourselves and others are important. (keep this in mind as you read along…) Now, the central problem we run into when dealing with the character of the emperor, is that we really only know him through secondary sources: talks with others, remembrancers, Malcador, his sons… etc. The solution? Similar to scientific research of unknown/unseen phenomena: if we can’t study the direct subject itself, we study the direct effect is has had on its surroundings. And - though this might not be what people want to hear - it is essential to the 40k universe that a figure like the Emperor never becomes too defined or pinned down. Why? Take a look at any religion: a compelling story, combined with enough room for the reader to interject themselves in it, is the way to go. And it is the very gaps in information that make us want to endlessly puzzle, research and solve. Knowing this, is there a way to learn more? I would argue: return to the source materials that inspired the writers to create, a basic example: With the return of the Lion, we are also reintroduced to the Grand Inquisitor Torquemada Coteaz. (yes, the Inquisitor in Terminator Armor with the double-headed eagle on his arm). Fact: he’s an actual historic figure from 15th century Spain, who reintroduced the inquisition under Queen Isabella and was responsible for the horrific persecution of what he dubbed ‘heretics’. (he also got Columbus to sail and discover the USA, so take from that what you will…). But the point remains: knowing the source tells us a bit about the headspace of the author when designing the character. Seems really straightforward, but how would this work with the Emperor? Answer: it does and it doesn’t. Firstly, lump together the vast selection of obvious historic, mythical and religious connections: Zeus and the Titans, Alexander the Great, but also King Louis XIV - the Sun King, Caesar, the list just goes on and on…. . The novel Master of Mankind much affirmed this for me, for it actually places the Emperor’s origin in an ancient Sumerian City-State, amidst Mesopotamia. (historically credited as being the cradle of civilization - the first place where mankind went from hunter-gatherers to agriculture and the large-scale collaboration needed for the creation of cities). It also tells us that he sees his Primarchs not as sons, but as tools. From which we might conclude two further things: it was probably Malcador who insisted he did name them like that, in order to bolster loyalty and their emotional development, but also that the Emperor funamentally doesn't care about individual human lives, only about the meta-narrative: the long-term goal. Secondary: take a look and pile together all the various scifi-related sources like Larry Niven’s ‘Ringworld’ (also the inspiration behind HALO), Isaac Asimovs novels on AI and robotics (way before it was invented by the way, those are a great read). But also a book like 20k Leagues Under the Sea (J. Verne), who’s captain Nemo’s stance really resembles much of the Emperor’s attitudes towards both his actions and others. Which lead me to the obvious next question: is there an over-arching idea/source that might help us understand the approach to the character of the Emperor? Yes, in my opinion there is. And it is the one you think it is, though not for the most obvious of reasons: Great stories are the fundamental way in which humanity motivates itself, but also understands it history. And their power simply can’t be overstated. A fact that is known by all of the best and worst aspects of humanity: great leaders, cult leaders, dictators… And it is that very idea that is the core aspect of Frank Herbert’s writing (yes; DUNE is the answer…). Now, even though I think most all here have probably read the novels or know the gist of it, spoiler warning from here on. Also: this is a source, not a direct translation. For there’s a lot of aesthetic and literary motivs taken from those books that - on the surface - help define the basic fundamentals that govern the 40k universe: the travel, the abolishment of AI, the idea of navigators (astropaths), fathers and sons, etc. But it is the central notion of the story that, I would argue, also informs the curious role of the Emperor in 40k: The lead character in the first two novels (Paul), is someone who - despite having a reasonably respectful upbringing towards his subjects - is also told from an early age onwards that he has some kind of amazing role to play in the larger scheme of things. (curiously, he also ultimately ends up living in the desert). A core motivation to the live of any human: think of Garro for example, being told over and over that ‘he is of purpose’, by his serv. In Paul’s case, it’s not just his family, but his entire environment that reaffirms his place in the ‘large scheme of things’, strengthened by the idea that he is the result of his mother’s rebellion against this manipulation. Something that really escalates when he meets the sand-people, who have been coaxed for hundreds of years by the Bene-Gesserit order, that a savior will come for them from the most unexpected of places. And ultimately: it goes bad, already somewhat revealed in Paul’s visions of tremendous massacre in the first book and movie. Note also that he (as the Kwisatz Haderach/chosen one) adhers to something called ‘The Golden Path’, foretelling all the fluid events of the future, revealing the optimal road through countless future roads of cause and effect. Something that is often also revealed by Malcador, the Emperor and even Magnus and his sons: the scroll through scenarios, chosing not the perfect one, but the most optimal one when considering the path and end-result as a whole. The Emperor and Malcador’s statements in both of the aforementioned stories, affirm this attitude: they have looked at all options of humanity’s path (warning here: this is of course to their perspective, and not necessarily a universal truth) and decided that this route was the way to go. Which helps explain why they do know the larger gist of things, and the rough outlines of how all this will play out, but never have direct future-sight. Herbert wrote Dune essentially as a giant critique against all the atrocities, wars and deaths that have been fought in the wake of following ‘great characters’. (sadly, historically often: men) And the Emperor is an extremely concentrated version of exactly that: a person/persons who share a collective story giving them some ‘ultimate purpose’ that can come from either of two motivations: if we consider the negative, it is a story that ethically makes it right for them to ‘use’ their fellow men and women in order to reach that goal, or at the very least: prevent other outcomes. (in most feudal societies, the leader will tell his people that what they are ordered to do is 'for their own benefit'. But if we take it positively, then the Emperor (or perhaps Malcador) has made both of them aware of the power of stories, and the way they might unite humanity around a common cause. (I mean: it's the very bedrock of the Church). Now whether their interpretation is actually true, we will probably never know. Although it would be very interesting to hear characters from other species talk about their perspective on it. This all to prove my previous point: both the Emperor and Malcador (for better or worse) very much understand humanity’s nature and the power of stories/words. That doesn’t give them ultimate power over reality, but it does allow them to mold specific parts of it. I'm going to leave you with a cliffhanger though: What happens in 40k is, essentially, Nietzschean as well: God is dead. And that's exactly the exciting part we have now reached: what happens when God has left the building and figures like the primarchs still base their thinking upon that ancient narrative, while the world has move on? Will we see humanity free themselves? Will we see them unite around the myth of the emperor? All bets are off if you ask me... The brief answer: yes, uniting around him makes either him (or his story) powerful, but the specific idea around paid souls is connected to the specific rules that govern the warp.

[@PinkyJustice]

The fact that the emperor ISN'T a chaos god is part of the point, right? The non chaos humans are actually just as bad as the chaos humans, just on opposite sides of their spectrum... So yeah, I agree. If the emperor becomes a chaos god, it kinda ruins the core conceit of the ip.

[@larsickenroth7169]

​@@PinkyJustice He is not, but there's more to that answer. Note the following: 1. The reason he doesn't want to be worshipped as a God/deity, is because it also hands strength to the other side: In 'The End and the Beginning', Euphrati Keeler argues it is a kind of yin-yang situation: the Emperor is the one in humanity that has great ambitions, and wishes to alter/upgrade humanity's part in the grand scheme of things. But in doing so (breaking the rules of the universe and 'stealing fire from the gods' like Prometheus) he is also the one who hands Chaos a certified reason to break the laws of nature and invade real-space. She concludes: if there is such a strong counterpush to his work, this must really ligitmize it's cause, or at least: it's role as a danger to Chaos. ('it is only with light that darkness exists, et vice versa) 2. The Primarchs' creation and nomination of Horus as a temporary equiry, was his way of bolstering the completed work in real space, while he went fighting elsewhere: Since the end of the campagin for Ullenor, he left the mortal realm to his sons, and started waging the same war in the immaterium. What is telling in that part, is that Malcador says it was always known that the Primarchs would ultimately die, but they expected them to be here longer to defend the Emperor's work in reality. Also he says the Emperor is a very practical being, and that the idea of putting these figures in a relation to him as his sons, was as much a practical as an emotional scheme, to which the emperor had painstakingly adapted his form for the time being (though being thoroughly annoyed with having to pose as a 'golden god' all the time). And most importantly: the Emperor and himself were looking forward to be side by side with their sons again, once the battle for both realities was concluded. 3. The tricky passage in this book is one easily missed though: The Sigillite muses right at the start, that even though he knows all the masks the Emperor wears, even he has never seen his true form. Which made me hold my breath for a minute, because even though this might signify the existence of the divine, it could also end up with him completing his work in the other realm, returning, and then taking his mask off to reveal the very largest Chaos God, empowered by 1000s of years of human sacrifice for his own proclamated 'greater good'. What does this mean? The Emperor is not a Chaos god, but he ìs the one who more actively than ever before blurred the boundaries between reality and the immaterium. This is presented as his 'grand scheme to overcome', and yet it is also the reason reality is being destroyed by the creatures from the other realm. (a direct reflection of the battle of wits going on in any person). So: he is not a Chaos God, but he is the reason Chaos has gained such a strong footing.

[@saintblackwater7213]

I honestly could see the emperor rising to become malice. It would be an absolutely hype tie-in and explain a lot

[@nahhfam7678]

I hoped that Abaddon would get a redemption arc through Malal/malice in that he is abandoned by the chaos gods for his failures with the demon Primarchs getting the love instead. He is stripped of his power and is left to die until he hears a little whisper saying "Hey, don't you want to kill them all?" and boom with a champion the black legion emerges as a total wildcard uniting more traitor marines who see a way out of their gods grasp by being stripped and remade by Malice. The Imperium all of a sudden has someone who hates the chaos gods as much as they do and actually get an ally who unabashedly will work with them against the 4 main gods but is open that he will kill them last.

[@jmgonzales7701]

how many chaos gods are there

[@nahhfam7678]

@@jmgonzales7701 4 main ones; Nurgle, Khorne, Slannesh and Tzeentch and a minor god known as Malal. Though because of the size of the warp and the universe, that's just the ones we know of.

[@lincolnosiris3665]

The Dark King is a prophecy about the Emperor ascending at the wrong point in time.

[@rogerbrownreacts8528]

They need a Chaos God of madness after all the Grimdark.

[@jasonZoo123]

Technically, Tzeentch is in charge of that.

[@Messy6610]

@@jasonZoo123 change is as good as a break 😂

[@Monkeyshaman]

Cegorach is right there.

[@teds8860]

If Samus' cycle is that of a race ascending then being consumed by a God of their own creation, then Ol would be breaking it. Could his sacrifice in taking the blow that would have killed the Emperor be what breaks it, stopping Horus' ascension through saving the Emperor

[@brendanmuller7301]

It could be. Issue is the emperor making it out would mean he would become the next dark king. There's 3 main thoughts I have 1. Ol saves emperor then further wounds the emperor with his dagger assuring both die or in big e's case "die" 2. Dark king kinda like talos from the elder scrolls is a mixture of 3 people, emperor, horus, and ol, with the emperor serving a similar role as the underking from tes ii in that his death and ascension is needed for it to be born fully 3. Emperor barely wins thanks to ol, he knows that his victory would lead him to becoming the dark king, either through his power and/or ol's blade the emperor discards parts of his own soul separating them into the warp(in the "official" telling of the emperor fighting horus he's stated to have discarded his emotions which inspired this). These warp being exist all becoming "godlike" warp entities in their own right, all fragments so metaphysically tied to the emperor but unable to reunite while the main bits of the emperor's soul is tied to the golden throne and his corpse. This would explain why the god emperor entity seems to have different abilities whenever it's power manifests, why guilliman had multiple voices calling to him when he spoke with the emperor yet they're all clearly aspects of the emperor's beliefs and not other peoples' while also alongside mortarion seeing multiple faces in relation to what the emperor has become. Imo it's option 2 or 3 but I'm leaning towards 3, the emperor being a shattered god essentially though one that would inevitably be reformed. Which is why valdor is after his true name. To control what his master has become to permanently halt his ascension

[@TerrificRallyMaestro]

CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM, RETURNS AT LAST

[@Ryukachoo]

10:40 Getting really strong "kill six billion demons" vibes from this. "Reach heaven through violence" "The only royalty is the power To Cut"

[@jonathantheslow]

I think the Dark King may be Be’lakor. He was born mortal before becoming immortal and he already has a rival “god” with Vashtorr. He has always yearned for immortality and this could be him on the verge of achieving it.

[@Turagrong]

Yup

[@samuelwhite8895]

doubt it. even in 40k his punishment is to never get what he wants in terms of godhood or a everchosen. he is forever a slave

[@davidmacias1270]

He’s definitely playing a part in the siege of the rock, that’s for sure!

[@thesandvitchman9303]

perterabo if given the spotlight could also ascend and become a chaos god and that's something I'd actually like to see or at least lorgar doing something would be cool to

[@117Jorn]

*5th chaos god announced* Malice: Am I a joke to you?

[@takjel1585]

Hes not "Official" Official. So that could be his arrival

[@SandmanofTerra]

Malice is not a canonical god imo. Not every warp being is. Whilst there is some lore on Malice existing. This book (and many others) make it clear that there are only the 4 Annihilator Gods

[@leeboy26]

@@SandmanofTerra That's just what he wants you to think!

[@cardd1577]

Yes

[@ChaosStruck]

Ah new information, new contenders for the eight seats of the eight points. The dark king, black is it that is all consuming for it will not let any other shine through. It is dominance, arrogance and its pride will cast shadows upon all. Endless shadows, an insatiable hunger that of a great beast. It has many names this one. But the end of times is not near, yet.

[@Sammo212]

I wonder if the Yellow King really does end up tying into this, that would be great.

[@SandmanofTerra]

I reckon it will!

[@DemonKingVI]

I would LOVE that.

[@Yarkoonian]

Yellow king?

[@DemonKingVI]

@@Yarkoonian the Yellow King, or King in Yellow, is both a reference to Lovecraftian mythos, as well as a villainous character in Warhammer 40k. I'm not sure I'd be able to describe it well enough so I would simply suggest you look it up. It's rather interesting.

[@Yarkoonian]

@@DemonKingVI Oh the king in yellow is in 40k? Really?

[@saphironkindris]

Malice: *Heavy breathing*

[@intboom]

Lorgar wrote the lectitio divinitatus, the holy book the entire imperium uses. If he has been siphoning off even a fraction of this, he's going to be too powerful for the setting.

[@jamricsloe]

Corax has been kicking Lorgars butt.

[@ArantyrDarkhand]

Bro...Lorgar its bleeding runes, every time Corax find him. Dude its paranoid from run for 10000 years.

[@LutherMahoney]

​@@ArantyrDarkhand i think Lorgar is going to be redeemed.

[@ArantyrDarkhand]

@@LutherMahoney Hes beyond any kind of redemption dude needs to be destroyed like horus was... but when he see the emperor has a god he surely will sh it bricks.

[@gahelo]

​@@jamricsloenah, both word bearees and Corax have lost his trail, he is out of his exile

[@Ksennie]

1) Its an interesting contrast between dark king, and then Valdors' current "name" the Yellow King. I don't have any lines of theory to spin off from it, but it's an interesting contrast. 2) I'm not unconvinced that it'll have something to do with Hashut, if he is (re)introduced in Age of Sigmar. The warp connects those realities, so I feel like if Hashut shows up in fantasy he will also somehow show up in 40K.

[@SandmanofTerra]

Yeah I'm low-key pretty confident Dabnett will tie this in with Valdor

[@nicholasscott3287]

I'm pretty sure that Hashut is just another name for Vashtorr.

[@Ksennie]

@@nicholasscott3287 Hashut came first, so Vashtorr would be another name for him ;) That said, we'll see! I could be convinced of pretty much anything at this point in regards to how that story line will pan out.

[@nakenmil]

While I am not a fan of our old fluff of Ollanius Pius, the faceless, ordinary guardsman standing in the way of Horus to hopelessly protect the Emperor being retconned AGAIN - I will say this: a plotline where the Chaos Gods originally treatied with the God-Emperor to have him ascend to become one of them in order to deliver them the Galaxy or something like that, only for him to cheat them out of their deal, leading to them corrupting his most favoured son and setting him up to as the second-choice for the job - only for Oll to fucking come out of nowhere and screw over BOTH the Emperor AND the Chaos Gods and make himself some kind of absolute fucking wildcard new god.... Well, hate it or love it, it would be a fucking notable step in 40k lore.

[@music79075]

... "and its Ollanius out of nowhere with the Peoples Chair!"

[@the11382]

Just why?!

[@omrmajeed]

Vashtor FTW. I say let science have its day in Chaos as well.

[@jasonZoo123]

The God of Molten Brass and Cruel Machinations. I to am a Vashtorr fan.

[@gustavotriqui]

Vashtor isn't a candidate, and neither is Be'lakor. They have models, and GW want to keep selling those. A full Chaos God, like Khorne or Tzeentch, will not have stats to be played with

[@TrumpIsYourPrez2024]

Praise the science! Hail Fauci!

[@jasonsager4592]

I think the emperor is going to be the Dark King, I think the endless sacrifice of psychers golden throne is a plan to allow him to ascend without consuming the entire human race.

[@cainabel6356]

Yep, he is going to be the new chaos god. He destroyed all of the religions in order to become the only religion. He made usre to sacrifice his primarchs to get him to the throne. Sounds like he planned his way to the top, in order to ascend to god hood.

[@tomasbm4423]

Would he consuming all of mankind be that bad? I mean, slaanesh is a pretty particular case since she is the goddess of pain, maybe with the emperor all humans in the material realm die but are reborn as part of his infinite inmortal army.

[@cainabel6356]

@@tomasbm4423 Slaanesh is a guy, well he has both genders, but still a guy. Slaanesh is called the Prince of Pleasure. He is the Chaos god of lust, not pain.

[@tomasbm4423]

@@cainabel6356 slaanesh is the chaos god of pleasure, but the eldar that brought her to life took pleasure mostly from the extreme and inhumane agony they caused to others, plus all of slaanesh’s followeres are known for the suffering they put others through, this makes slaanesh more linked to pain than any other emotion. Slaanesh is also called she who thirsts, and sticking to one is easier than always putting he/she .

[@cainabel6356]

@@tomasbm4423 chaos god of lust. In lust, pleasure is one of the subclasses. Yeah, but he is called the Prince of Pleasure. Like I have stated, he is both sexes.

[@justasplanned8023]

Interesting - probable coincidence - Abaddon has also been referred to as a dark king in recent fluff.

[@pilotmorgan8669]

I think it's sanguinious. I think the showdown between horus and the emperor didn't go down as we think. Sanguinuous became the dark king in his unmatched rage. This explains the black rage curse. Besides... he has angel wings and dracula vibes... dead give away.

[@cainabel6356]

Yeah, and the Emperor does not have magical light wings? I think the new chaos god will be the Emperor. Although, I do like your idea better. It would split the Blood Angels up because of it. Some of them will go to their daddy Sanguinious, but it also means I would have to change some things in my Blood Angels army. Hmmmm...... I would have to give it some thought.

[@jmgonzales7701]

@@cainabel6356 I think The emperor should not be a chaos god rather a god of order. If Sanguinious would become a chaos god what kind of chaos god will he be?

[@hoboaustin109]

Ollanius woule be interesting. He was the emperors first warmaster. He is immortal and has thousands of years over any primarch. He has taken down the emperor before. Even if not that, id love to see them explore him stepping back into the war

[@mkloppel]

I'm actually surprised at how thorough this was. Good job.

[@SandmanofTerra]

Thanks!

[@Rigidbearhead]

I think the dark king is ‘big boss’ all the imagery would support this.

[@abdullahirfan9991]

Sly marbo will Ascent to godhood and will German suplex the chaos gods while the big E eats popcorn in the background

[@johnmagee2245]

I always thought that the Emp could become Malice, after all the imperium is nothing but hate purging the galaxy

[@raithdoom]

The emperor is way too ordered to become malice who embodies chaos more than the main 4 gods

[@orrorsaness5942]

@@raithdoom This!

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

@@raithdoom The real Emporor maybe. But not the corrupted facsimile that the Imperium follows. A shadow version of the light. Not unlike *cough* the christian god *cough*

[@raithdoom]

@@kamikeserpentail3778 fair enough but I still doubt that the emperor would become a chaos god in any capacity a warp god most likely but not a chaos god Also too true

[@theroadstopshere]

I'd be curious to see what it is in the final battle with Horus that prevented the rise of the Dark King at that time (unless, of course, they retcon and have the Dark King been a created but slumbering god for the past 10 millenia). Given that this god seems to manifest alongside portents similar to the powers of all the 4 others, they would certainly be the mightiest yet-- a culmination of all acts of cruelty, ambition, apathy, despair, and debauchery committed by mortal beings and perhaps even the acts of the 4 gods themselves. What would prevent this rise? Would the act of the gods withdrawing their power from Horus be an attempt to stymie the creation of a potent rival? Could the Emperor's casting off of his compassion and love prevent his apotheosis by fragmenting his power and souls enough to prevent him becoming a vessel or source of its birth? Or conversely, was this casting off of his humanity a necessary part of its birth? Do the matyrdoms and selfless actions of Sanguinius and the others who canonically sacrificed themselves in an effort to overcome Horus somehow disrupt the concentration of hatred and power necessary for its birth, or prompt changes of thought and action in Horus and the Emperor that have the same end result? There's so many potential ways this narrative thread could go, I'm extremely eager for the final book of the Siege and where they decide to take it. Nervous, too, that they might not stick the landing on such a setting-spanning moment in the lore, but for right now my excitement outweighs my fear.

[@generalalduin9548]

Now we just need Malice to have more focus in the lore, the Horned Rat to show up with Skaven (I’m a Skaven fanboy, sue me), and the Emperor to ascend to godhood, and everything will be perfect

[@kornelskitek7681]

Yes-yes man-thing! We-we want to build a Titan from wood and warpstone. No one can stand against the council of Thirteen! In all honesty, it took about 20 years for me to start loving the little bastards, but once you do… there is no coming back. And I want to ride my Doomwheels over Space Marines.

[@generalalduin9548]

@kornelskitek7681 I'd love to see a titan made out of wood and warpstone, but I think warpstone needs to be adapted out for the Skaven in 40k Just give them crazy unsafe superscience with a lot of green lights to modernize the warpstone usage. Or perhaps they're the only ones able to make a wonder material that just so happens to take the place of warpstone

[@return4887]

i would die for a chaos skaven 40k army

[@jamesmcallister5562]

Awesome video man! Really enjoyed it! Such a cool topic in the context of 40k progression!

[@SandmanofTerra]

Thanks James!

[@timeforthehammer1401]

W40k has the best lore and reminds us there is more going on than just big battles

[@grizzlyowlbear3538]

I'm starting to think that this fifth Chaos God could represent ambition, control and thirst for power, and thus feed on those emotions from the souls of the galaxy, considering that both Horus and the Emperor had those qualities in abundance. However, I think it would sort of overlap with Slaanesh. Still, interesting to think about.

[@Graysen76]

If it is the Emperor, which I feel is the most likely given how humanity essentially worships him in the setting, this is starting to feel a bit like the end of Berserk's Golden Age arc.

[@spartan9330]

The emperor would make sense giving Sauron vibes , use the gods to start your army , all gods try to take you out as you rapidly gain power so really chaos are the good guys

[@Archaeologyhat]

Man the Horned Rat and Hashut are gonna be pissed when they find out they're not 5th and 6th respectively. Though I guess the Chaos God of being a Skaven and of being a Dwarf doesn't figure all that much in 40k. Also it could be Be'lakor coming in with the steel chair, he was in fact once a Human, has been (re-)born Immortal (as the first Demon Prince), very much wants to be a god, is strongly associated with shadows and went by "The Dark Master" in Mordheim, comes from Warhammer Fantasy and weirdly exists in 40k despite not having done much.

[@raithdoom]

Hashtut is a chaos god just not one of the big 4 and the horned rat has always been something equal to the warp gods but different

[@DemonKingVI]

Actually, with the Votann existing...

[@bobjordan5596]

I have always argued to toss with my fellow Warhammer comrade's that the emperor was Malice/Malal. All of the Imperium has been killing in his name for 10000 years, all them souls/power going to him.

[@D1rtySanchezZ1]

tbh im not sure what to think of this. there already has been a 5th chaos god called Malal, later retcons changed the name to Malice with their own renegade chapter of chaos space marines called the Sons of Malice. tho last mention of the Sons of Malice seems to have more retcons that just leave out any mention of the god. so 5th god could be on the horizon, could be forever, could be only temporary. time will tell

[@Lumen_Obscurum]

There's also the chance that the Dark King coming to power was Horus' death, which brings about Abaddon leading his Black Legion in the future. I've mentioned previously my theory from many years ago that Abaddon's "failures" are him understanding the Warp like no other mortal. Much like a sailor understanding the ocean, he would have learned by now to read the tides of the Warp. That's why he is repeatedly beaten back, because he knows that the power of the Warp is one of ebb and flow. You can't force the tide, you can't pin down the ocean, so why expect the Chaos Gods to be any different? Sure, the ocean is made of souls rather than water but the principle still stands. It's why the most powerful Chaos God at any time is constantly in flux, due to the swell of their strength that then ebbs away again once they're at the peak. The Dark King being the one who can read the tides and know in advance who is going to be Ascendant would make them the most powerful God of the pantheon. Now, there is also the issue that time isn't linear in the Warp. Slaanesh was born in the Fall of the Eldar, but after their birth they have always existed. Both before and after the Fall. So the coming of the Dark King could well be about to happen from the perspective of the Warp, but not actually happen for 10k years after the Siege of Terra. It's one of those issues with having linear and non-linear space interacting, you can have the Dark King about to rise at two different galactic times and be the same event and same person. The rise of the Dark King could itself be part of the ebb and flow of the Warp, hence why it is recorded since before humanity left the trees. Each event that aids in the creation of the Dark King is a steady process, from a Warp perspective. An ancient ship transits to one world, rather than the target which leads to the MUCH later human settlers doing one thing slightly differently. Of course, there is another thought. The Dark King being in the Tarot and whispered in the Webway could actually be The Emperor's own doubts creeping in. A doubt he's not even aware of, but which is resonating through the Warp and affecting others. It would easily explain why it affects the Tarot and why it suddenly appeared, because Malcador mentioned hearing it to The Emperor and by doing so made his doubt manifest in the Tarot.

[@cn9707]

The Dark king card appeared shortly after Abaddon barely escaped while most of the elite units of the Sons of Horus were ass rammed at Saturnine. Interesting theory. I just like OLD warrior Abaddon better than the new "i love chaos but don't really love chaos but still kinda love it" Abaddon.

[@emzetkin1100]

Abby stared into the Astronomicon til his eyes turned gold and visited every world within the Eye of Terror. Abaddon absolutely understands how the warp works better than none other.

[@larsonberggren8600]

With as much death as the Emperor is fed via psychers and martyrs, it would make sense he actually becomes the corpse god. The Dark King. King of Death. No other Chaos god embodies that. Tzeentch is knowledge, Khorne is honor, Slaanesh is ambition, Nurgle is Life. A god born of humanities love of death makes sense.

[@lowriderbug]

technically Khorne is the corpse god (well really he is the skull god) 😉

[@junglelane]

In a final act of saving humanity the Emperor wipes out the tyranids through their hive mind. But in turn becomes so tainted he becomes the very thing he sought to protect man from.

[@BM-is5ei]

Samus is here! Having read the latedt Siege of Terra book, I thought the dark King was just Horus trying to become the 5th Chaos god. Nontheless a solid list!

[@snowdawn]

Hail the Dark King! Hail the dark Empire! Very good points man.

[@SandmanofTerra]

Thanks so much!

[@snowdawn]

@@SandmanofTerra you're welcome man :)

[@shaderunner8220]

The fact that the next chaos god could be a Catholic is not something I'm ready for. I'm going to die of laughter.

[@Contenttrough82]

The story of Horus being 5th god would be cool but also the emperor kind of spilled some white out on his soul and now he’s gone gone forever

[@willumbermarchant5510]

Everybody knows that the Emperor is already thr 5th Chaos god, the god of pointless bureaucracy

[@allanwink8695]

Tbh I wish it was Konrad Curze....that would be an insane Chaos God

[@danielmiller3596]

Foresight let him die to prevent him become a Lord to become something more? I can see it.

[@richardmetcalfe920]

I wouldn't be surpirsed if they go with a 'trinity' theme and fuse big E, Horus and Sanguinous together into a composite entity.

[@BloodyArchangelus]

After all those years, I can say it loud- you can cast shadow on God-Emperor as big as you want, but he is a positive power in the universe. The sacred virtues of mankind. Sanguinius was right to believe in the Emperor’s dream until the end.

[@aguspuig6615]

Man this video and Baldemorts talking about the emperors relation to chaos dropped at the same time almost, im voting for the emperor

[@S0up3rD0up3r99]

I can imagine the Emperor becoming a chaos god with the sole intention of destroying the other chaos gods, even if it means dooming a majority of humanity in order to save humanity.

[@SandmanofTerra]

I like it!

[@oldtimmy9481]

He cant because he the Anathema to Chaos. The Immaterium is not pure Chaos. The Emperor has always been the Entity of Order. Order has always been the enemy of Chaos. on a metaphysical level.

[@raithdoom]

@@oldtimmy9481 he could just become a warp god however rather than a chaos god not all the warp is the realm of chaos

[@NaGa5h]

​@@raithdoom Warp and Chaos are literally interchangeable terms in the Warhammer 40k universe. Because the Warp has no order, no time or space like we know it, it's called Chaos.

[@raithdoom]

@@NaGa5h not entirely interchangeable the realm of chaos takes up the majority of the known warp and formed after the war in heaven.

[@christhechilled]

I am 100% on board for the revival of Konrad Kurz! Let’s go!

[@brianaguila6925]

Now,what powers does the possible fifth chaos god be having?

[@Autipsy]

It is a little weird that there isnt a chaos god of Fear.

[@Acorbet86]

He can turn off light bulbs.

[@glitterboy2098]

meanwhile malal is throwing a fit in the retconium..

[@Ikxi]

*5th??* Let's go!

[@TheThunderinghammer]

Lorgar Aurelian was before his time. The Emperor who claimed he was no god and hated the idea of it, yet totally always acted and presented himself like one - will be a Chaos God, and I hope he hates every second of it, the prick

[@BreakerBeat]

I think it's worth noting that GW have used the term "The Dark King" to (seemingly) describe Konrad Curze, there is even a short story about him called "The Dark King". It would be kind of weird to "re-use" that title for no reason, especially because it's a rather generic one - it would be easy to just pick something slightly different to differentiate the two. It does also seem like "The Dark King" was mentioned as some unknown character at the end of the Horus Heresy. I haven't pinpointed exactly at what time, and since Curze was active during most of the HH, but notably at the very end of it he was pretty inactive until his death. So it's hard to see the connection between those two - the book title could very well be because of some link between them, rather than him actually being the Dark King. If that is the case, this other character must be important to the Curze story, since the book is named after him while it focuses on Curze.

[@SandmanofTerra]

Indeed, this is noted in the video in fact

[@Instar_nine]

Samus is the dark king using horus as his pawn (vassal)

[@thathandsomedevil0828]

Actually I read in the novel: "Echoes of Eternity" book that there are 8 chaos gods, but so far only 4 of them are known.

[@dahn57]

Well, there are minor gods too

[@thathandsomedevil0828]

@@dahn57 The Eldar gods, Gork and Mork?

[@dahn57]

@@thathandsomedevil0828 Very different to the Chaos gods

[@ThePaeppa]

Imagine thinking you could get away with stealing from the Chaos Gods. Serves you right, Big E-mbarassment

[@shogunender8752]

I really hope Be’lakor gets more love in the lore he seems like a used and thrown away underdog of the chaos gods who is waiting to take what he believes is his. Or even if some way the raven guard primarch absorbs be’lakor and becomes a new chaos god for the loyalists. Will never happen but damn it would be badass. Also in those alternate heresy fan lore I love the idea of Vulkan becoming a huge dragon daemon is so cool also sanguinius should be khorne in these alternate fandoms.

[@Ink_Different]

Imagin the emperor becomes the 5th Chaos god and the black templars are just like "Fuck it, FOR THE CHAOS EMPEROR!!!" and literally just turn their crusade around undoing all the previous work they did.

[@SandmanofTerra]

That would be a hell of a twist

[@Ink_Different]

@@SandmanofTerra I mean with how devoted they are to him I could see it happening.

[@Jomi91]

Oll Persson is a very old person.

[@brendanmuller7301]

Imo ths end and death wont actually reveal it if anyone has become the dark king. Infact, considering abnett mentioned how much gw is letting him get away with in the book involving valdor i think it will be revealed then and not during the siege. However i see a few possibilities for what could happen 1. Dark king was meant to be horus but his death stopped it leaving the 5th spot open 2. Dark king was meant to be emp or horus and their deaths led to a spot being open 3. The dark king isnt the emperor, horus, or ol, but similar to a popular theory about the makeup of talos from the elder scrolls series, its actually all 3 of them fused together. 4. Its actually just setting up for vashtor who will become the fifth chaos god and take the name malice 5. Its none of the above and actually sanguinius and that the being we see talk to dante was the dark king itself using dante for some 4d chess move 6. Horus didnt actually die and was able to ascend 7. The emperor was becoming the dark king after defeating horus but he, possibly with the help of ol in a process which killed him, shattered the emperor's soul guranteeing that as long as his body is on the throne, the last bits of his soul tied to the materium cannot ascend to the warp and its fragments cant become the dark king 8. Seamus is the dark king or fuses with whoever becomes it

[@largamau]

All these chaos and destruction while I'm just rooting for my boy Farsight and his faction. The last and only good guys in 40k.

[@DummyFace123]

Also Constantine valdor does seem like the closest analogy to the god emperor’s Golden Path. I think he is probably the linchpin of humanity’s fate in their coming ‘typhoon struggle’. To put it in even more Dune terms: The Dark King = the great enemy The cataclysmic challenges that come with the coming of The Dark King = Kralizec Constantine Valdor + The Primarchs+ The Crusades, etc = The Golden Path Humanity’s ultimate annihilation = Arafel The God Emperor foresaw The Great Enemy and Arafel, and knew what must be done to prepare humanity to survive Kralizec. Through the Emperor’s Golden Path, he prevented Arafel. The Golden Path was never to ensure humanity’s dominion over the universe, it was to give humanity a chance to survive, and to teach them lessons that “their bones would remember”, in preparation for Dune’s equivalent of 40k’s war in heaven.

[@sandrothenecromancer6810]

The 4 order gods: The Emperor of Mankind Yneead The greater good Gorkamorka

[@Fuzzycat16]

i can see that.

[@GloomyMime]

Gork and Mork are more chaotic than chaos gods.

[@sandrothenecromancer6810]

@@GloomyMime There is order in foighting umie

[@chowrites6179]

I'm going with the Emperor's revival being the black king as he remains as a corpse to take on the universe. My other, wilder theory, Guilliman is tricked/convinced by Malice to become his champion of ultimate Chaos

[@Overanalyse_This]

"I can count them on my fingers" As a daemon of the warp, this statement doesn't tell us anything! For all we know, on one hand he might have 5 hands in place of his fingers. And each of those handfingers end in a hand with 13 fingers.

[@marco8773]

Now, every time i see a Raid shadow legends i just stop watching, i hate that game.

[@VikingTemplar]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that noticed that in the books about persson

[@chiefbungalow]

It'll be Vulcan and he'll be the chaos god of happiness, hugs, and love (also melting some poor bastard). The "dark" part in The Dark King just refers to his skin

[@Ekstrax]

well that was pretty smooth gotta admit

[@LTCOMMANDER89]

Kaldor Draigo..... The Dark King of Warp Crack......

[@davidmacias1270]

If the golden throne is truly attracting the Tyranids to Terra, the emperor would have foreseen it and would surely use it to his advantage….but, how and why?!?! WH50K!!!

[@Dingghis_Khaan]

"Dark King" smells of an ultimate tyrant. I see no better fit for such a position than Hashut.

[@abreecs3511]

Plot Twist: The Dark King is Corvus Corax, who ascended only to still be loyal to the Emperor, and to spite Lorgar at the very core of his beliefs. Afterall, what is Lorgar going to do, worship Corvus? Turns out Alpha Legion was also in on it. "I haunted the night, but Corax _owned_ it." -Conrad Curze

[@Tekjive]

I thought I knew some 40k …but this small video opened up a whole nother level of exploring I need to fulfill in my 40k-verse

[@SandmanofTerra]

It's a very deep universe!

[@water594]

Having the story move forward in a significant way with the fracturing of humanity like what happened with the Eldar would be interesting