Players DEMAND That There Be No Risk Or Challenge | DnD Horror Story

[@pedroarjona6996]

The insane expression of the young cat will haunt me forever

[@poiuppx]

Seen people saying the 2nd story group just wants a video game. Not quite; they want a video game *on God Mode*. They want zero challenge, zero effort, maximum reward. As Yahtzee once put it, they want to be able to just add 1 over and over and end up with the shiniest of pants in all the land.

[@jaysonklein6018]

Lolol... Shiniest Pants.

[@snickerdoodle8776]

Yahtzee!? Man, I haven't heard that name in a looooong time!

[@alananimus9145]

The solution to this one is easy having been through it myself. Run a session with insta win rules. Nothing matters, every roll succeeds, everything dies in one hit. Setup awesome epic monster fights for the monster to instantly die. Now I know someone will ask. Why would you go through all that? What is the point? The answer is because sometimes you cannot just tell people "you think you want this but you actually don't" sometimes you have to show them how empty what they want is.

[@poiuppx]

@@alananimus9145 Ha! I love it. I'd go all in with it, too. 'You open the chest, and find gold inside!' 'Cool, how much?' 'All of it.' '...what?' 'All of it. All the gold in the world is in this chest. Also all the silver, and all the copper. Also, all the magic items you guys want. Just add them to your sheet, free attunement, all that you desire!' Just absolutely go Twilight Zone 'A Nice Place To Visit' on it. Give them so exceedingly much in the positive realm that it drives them nuts and takes the wind out their sails. Heck, maybe I'd even have it be that before starting all this, the party is in a wagon crash or something en route to the dungeon, to really seal the deal on the pastiche. 'Heaven? Whatever gave you the idea you were in Heaven, Mr. Adventurer? This is the other place!'

[@martok2112]

Poiuppx, I was just thinking the same thing. These players are video game "RPG" players. I play video game "RPGs" as well... and am even revisiting Elder Scrolls OblIVion as I write this...lol. But, I also remember the mechanics, the advantages, and the limitations of TTRPGs... and given that I have not played a TTRPG in ages, I'm sure I would reacclimate just fine. (I honestly miss Star Wars The Role-Playing Game under West End Games' license.)

[@Yojimbo16]

My DM sure knew how to improvise when a simple "Find the Bandits" sidequest turned into forming a circus with said bandits.

[@gnarleytarley3870]

In Pathfinder 2E module we were meant to retrieve a stolen item we needed for the quest, we were so good at talking we convinced the thief to join us on our quest, so the DM made a whole character for him because even the module didn't think people would invite a thief on a quest... Well a week later the rest of my party asked him to wait back since we had used the item and got past the part we needed it for and we would escort him back in when we were done. Well he got kidnapped because our DM said screw you I worked on this guy all night now you have to save him... I love a dm who can Improvise.

[@marybdrake1472]

Right out of the gate, that DM was awful. He literally just wasted time for the sake of doing exactly that.

[@professorsponge1554]

1st story: "Make plans, but don't cling to them too tightly." has been my motto as a DM for over 15 years. Trying to plan every detail out becomes frustrating, and not planning at all makes a session feel random and pointless, and can lead to really sloppy storytelling. If 1 ale can knock a man out, I'd have started weaponizing that. "Hey, if 1 ale can knock me out for an in game hour, it can knock other people out for the same amount of time." This isn't gaming, this is wasting time. The DM is more focused on eating time than actually telling a story or running a game. None of this has anything to do with the plot promised. 2nd story: What a bunch of mops. If these players find 5e not enough of a power fantasy and can't handle a little human interaction I'd love to see them try an older edition that wasn't you playing a fantasy super hero. From the bullet points, this group doesn't want to play D&D, they want to play skyrim with mods that creates a super easy mode, operates on moon logic, and has tons of exploits. At that point OP, you might as well play D&D by yourself, or find a new group and not this group of mops. (mops being players/DMs who take and never give anything back, and just water down the experience. low invested players) on the other hand, DM, you could be really passive aggressive and give these mops exactly what they want. D&D easy mode. Don't bother making sheets or plans. just give them victories even they feel they don't deserve. have weekly BBEGs that just die in 1 hit. monsters that crumble to powder. make them so powerful that they can't control themselves and smash doors off hinges and kill the women they try to bed at the tavern. A guy who can carry a 3000 ton statue up a sheer cliff wall would break bones without even trying. No one talks to them, they gotta make diplomacy checks just to get information and its always dry and to the point. "You guys wanted a power fantasy with no challenge and no roleplaying. I'm just operating by your desires."

[@heatherharrison264]

The first story is hilarious, and I can imagine that it would be frustrating to actually be there. It sounds like something right out of a 1920s silent comedy or a Monty Python skit, complete with absurdly antagonistic side characters and malicious props. This sort of situation is funny to watch from the outside, but it is never fun for the participants. The only way to do this right would be to do it purposely as a joke campaign that would be something like D&D meets Monty Python and the Holy Grail. The second story is an unusual situation - the players actually want a railroad with a stripped down story. Maybe they need to play a hack-and-slash video game instead.

[@GarkKahn]

Sounds like classic comedy (getting hit, being thrown a pie at you, etc.) It's funny watching it, but it sucks when it happens to you

[@Sigilstone17]

Group in the last story didn't want to play D&D, they wanted to play Skyrim

[@jamesmahon6788]

With heavy modding

[@SirusEinzla]

@@jamesmahon6788 and console commands

[@GarkKahn]

And "tgm"

[@Enclavefakesoldier]

That's exactly what I said in my head Which is ironic since I'm playing skyrim as I watch.

[@jessewilley531]

The granny character actually reminds me of something I did in a DC Super Heroes game 20 years ago. Only I did a twist on it. They players were trying to track the Legion of Doom through a contact in Gotham. The players did three things I didn't expect so I ran a random encounter until I could figure out what to do. They got sidetracked helping some GCPD officers stop some jewel thieves. One of the officers would have died if the players hadn't done first aid. While it was pointless filler at the time... I found a way to pay if off later. They were still in town two sessions later. They found one of the party members sigils in skyline.... because somebody modified the Batsignal. They go to GCPD. Gordon is there there. He says 'I'm not sure Batman will appreciate me talking to you folks, but I don't really care. The way you guys treated my men, which is something he often doesn't, makes me know that I can trust you. I'm not going in blind. I did my research. Trust but verify and all that. Maggie Sawyer over in Metropolis and an acquaintance of yours with the Big S say you're all right. Officer Goodwin and O'Neil said you were tracking the Legion of Doom. While you guys were dealing with Solomon Grundy, we caught someone you might want to talk to..'

[@vidmanandrew09]

I am feeling physical damage listening to that padding DM! This is legitimate pain!

[@Arcticmaster1190]

For Story 2: I always tell my players this one rule- “Whatever cheese you allow, the DM’s monsters and NPCs can do too.” This means if you break the game, the DM can break it as well to challenge the party. So be very careful of the rules that you want to bend in your favor, because if the DM isn’t abiding by the rules, they can do it 10x better than the player, and if you give them the time to prepare, whatever you prepare to win, you better prepare that it also works too. That OP needs a new set of players with his expectations put out on the table. You can’t negotiate a rule like that with these players, they clearly just want to win and don’t care. You can wrap up any session they make with “Okay, you won. The day is saved/destroyed, babes are lying at your feet and the King grants you his castle. You all are now the rulers of everything. The end.”

[@nickmanzo8459]

Puffin Forest did a video on this with his talk on The Actual Problem with Rules Lawyers.

[@TheKarinne09]

I wonder if the algorithm dragon is any relation to den of the drake

[@PaladinGear15]

These dudes should play Final Fantasy 13 if they want a long unending hallway.

[@grimlime9257]

Or fight Gwyndolin in Dark Souls.

[@GarkKahn]

I remember playing an rpg from the 2000s with exactly that, legend says my character is still walking there

[@jessewilley531]

Total improv REALLY works well in something like the silly version of Gurps IOU or Toon where continuity is sort like the handcuffs in Roger Rabbit. You can get out of it at anytime but only if it is funny.

[@informitas0117]

It also works well if you have only done improv for 20 years, we had no money to buy books and only owned a rule book. My first paid adventure book was jarring to play as it was so limiting.

[@sablecyan2517]

"This is going really well if I do say so myself" That's the point where I actually snort-laughed during this video. Great googly moogly.

[@nueblackcrowfriend]

Oh God, you brought the one time I DMd for money back to my mind... it was sheer, unadulterated PAIN. I won't go into the full details, but the problem were not the players, but the people who set the game up. I should've run away the moment the first session came and the organizers told me to change the playing system on a whim because they were afraid that one of player, who used to be afraid of the dark when he was a child, would feel bad if we played "World of Darkness", entirely due to the title. Anyhow, they told me, in no uncertain terms, how was I supposed to master the game: *I had to railroad the players into interactions with characters, no matter how little they were interested in that part. *More important to this topic, I was supposed to hand the player everything they wanted on a silver plate: even things that could not be mechanically possible in-game, even things that might ruin other player's experiences. Of course, I was also forbidden from making them fail anything or face the consequences of their mistakes. Oddly enough, even though I disobeyed the rules, the players liked the game, so I call that a victory, albeit small.

[@Cloudx44]

Pala with a bow, that's sacrilege :D

[@Andi_Frost_XPR0PR18]

Wouldn't a paladin with a gun just be a cop?

[@yourface2464]

@@Andi_Frost_XPR0PR18 Space marines be like

[@l0stndamned]

1st story: I feel this is less a case relying on improv being the problem and more a case of the DMs rigid ideas about pacing ruining things. 2nd story: maybe someone should introduce these guys to the sort of DMs that want to tell stories to an audience rather than run a proper game. We hear about so many of those, might as well put them to use.

[@Evoker23-lx8mb]

I love winning as much as the next guy but personally in DnD I LOVE losing. I constantly tell the DMs I play with that the sessions where I get to fuck around and find out (only if I’m the only one suffering, I never do it when the rest of the party will suffer) are my absolute favourites.

[@JKevinCarrier]

The DM who doesn't prep should hook up with the group that doesn't want challenge -- they can just sit in the tavern and roleplay all night.

[@jacobguevara3708]

Lol that's awesome. Cool video bro!

[@StarrChild.]

If people don't want challenges, they shouldn't play DnD. It sounds like the group want to do an almost battle royale style game of just fight after fight and then get a reward at the end. The reason we roll dice is for the chance of failure. Yes it super sucks when you want to do something cool or impactful and the dice say "nah" but that just makes the times when it work so much better. Losing builds character, in both players and characters. Its important.

[@tuomasronnberg5244]

I don't understand either what the party was getting out of that game. They wanted to roll dice but not have it affect anything? What's the point of having a game system in the first place then.

[@OMGUKILLKENNY2]

I disagree, if the whole party just want to play a power fantasy then there is no harm in tailoring the game towards that. Cause at the end of the day, D&D is just that, a game. The whole goal is to have fun with it.

[@jaimerivera2382]

@@OMGUKILLKENNY2 But the thing is, everyone has to be in on it *including the DM*. And that needs to be discussed, because the DM needs to be having fun too; and if their idea of fun is a game with consequences and failure states, then they won't be having fun in a pure power fantasy type game.

[@OMGUKILLKENNY2]

@@jaimerivera2382 I agree that the Dm needs to be on it too. However that is a failure of both sides to set expectations. Also people have fun in different ways. I am sure some people do want a game without the chance of failure and will enjoy it. That is the reason god mode was a popular cheat option in video games back when cheat codes were a thing.

[@knightofantimony5305]

The first story reminds me of a Friend who used to DM for my group a while ago. He would act like the whole session was planned out, but it just felt like a weekly uphill climb of overpowered enemies, situations that nobody except his Gary Stu character could possibly be prepared for, and plot points that came out of whatever media he had consumed that week. We found this person to be stealing cards at some point and exiled them, so take that as you will.

[@vortega472]

Ah, sweet little Alice - she is such a beautiful Tabbybabby. Thanks Doge.

[@20catsRPG]

First story resonates with me. Had a DM just like that, but not because he wanted to improvise as a matter of principle. He didn't prepare because he preferred to play computer games. 20 minutes before a session, he downloaded the first free map he found on 5-minute dungeons and just took the story there. As a result, the story made no sense, had no logic and we were being railroaded hard since he had noting else prepared and couldn't allow us to go do anything else. Just like in OP's case, he had us do pointless rolls that lead nowhere just to drag out session time. Like asking for Perception checks during night watch even though we all knew he had no encounters prepared or allowing us to go into a town sewers to contact the Thieves' Guild just to end up leaving anyway two hours later after we couldn't find anything, despite rolling 25 or more on Perception and Investigation checks several times. I'm sure as hell glad it's over.

[@karisasani7006]

Frankly if that Dm didn't know how to do prep or improvise, they should just run a official module.

[@mqfii8992]

I'm admitelly a more lenient DM. I've been DM'ing for 5 years and I have, surprisingly, 0 PCs kiled. However, it does NOT mean my players never feel threatened or that the narrative has no stakes. I usually remedy that by making NPCs found and made friends along the way being the ones In danger. And hoh boy, did they cry when, for example, Mariko, an NPC that healed them between major fights or rests, died In the arms of one of them. She died because they arrived too late to save the day and rolled poorly on medical skills. Her last words were "At least... I'm dying on a warm embrace..."

[@CooperAATE]

Outside of one-shots, I've killed 2 PCs (funnily enough, they were run by the same player) in over 2 years. My one-shots, however, have about a 50% mortality rate 😅

[@gazblackheart4596]

I don't pull punches (I warn people upfront that dying is a part of my table and to expect it so they don't join unless thats something they can handle) because I have had dms do it to me and found it very annoying to the point where I had to plot with another player to have my character murdered (anytime anyone would take damage that was lethal he would find a way to retcon it or reduce it so we would live, deus ex machina)...if there are no stakes then I find the game boring, dms need to understand that. The threat of death and those moments it brings gives the game more meaning at least imo. If I can do whatever I want knowing there are no consequences I am not going to take the game or the dm seriously. I consider a hard won fight where we scrape by to be the more exciting and fulfilling than always easily overcoming all obstacles.

[@gazblackheart4596]

@@CooperAATE its one shots so its not that big of a deal lol no one should be attached to their characters.

[@sefieezephiel9851]

The second story sounds to me like the group just wants to roleplay without the rules. This can be pretty fun actually, it only works when all players cooperate though, it's more about interacting between characters and weaving a story. In most of these games you don't even need a DM since the player are the DM's and introduce NPC's and the likes at their leisure.

[@Xokoy]

With the last story, OP should put in consequences for failures. Like with the lockpicking example, they fail so they set off some kind of trap that deals damage to them, stuff like that. That would be my approach

[@windyface9383]

there are different consequences to a bad roll than "you fail at doing X", like lock-breaking. You can successfully unlock it, but in a way that makes it obvious the lock has been picked. You can make it so that it took so much time that the players are at risk of being caught. That said, the players from story 2 seem like they're more interested in the fast and loose, rule of cool style of game from the Adventure Zone (no shade to the McElroy's, fantastic show, but most experienced DnD players might cringe at some of their buck-wild gameplay from the show). I wouldn't necessairly call them bad players, but not a great match for OP's preferred playstyle.

[@tsifirakiehl4250]

First story: For goodness sake, DMs, have some kind of plan! Yes, things probably won’t go completely according to the plan, and that’s when you improvise, but when you rely entirely on improv, more often than not, you’ll end up with a bunch of boring filler that nobody wants to play. You don’t even need much of a plan; you just need a basic idea of what’s going on where and how the PCs could get involved. Second story: OP, I don’t think this game is salvageable, because like you said, your players don’t want a game. I think you need to politely tell them that their playstyle doesn’t mesh with your DMing style, so if you continued to run this game, it would just be a frustrating experience for both you and them. Hopefully you can resolve this amicably and find a group that actually wants to play, while they can go play a video game modded to be unlosable.

[@AdmiralBlackstar]

Don't eat that rabbit. It is clearly a most formidable foe and should've been recruited to the party.

[@reesescup69]

18 doesn't need to be heavy armor but can also be incredibly dextrous or small creature.

[@juanfisi]

6:50 at that point just become a murder hobo.

[@Gamewizard13th]

' so i started my first game with zero prep however, it took someone with a mastermind ability to improvise and take notes from the players to even have a comprehensible world. i would never recommend someone doing what i have done. but it is possible definitely

[@Sanodi21]

So isn't it kind of expected that, as DM, you should have more ready? Like, say, you have the beats of the story ready at least.

[@solsotice6775]

The first story sounds like a new dm who is trying, and failing, to make their world feel alive and very much lived in. Instead it is being turned into EVERYTHING happens to and around the party rather than stuff is continuing to happen off screen.

[@Symos]

Story 1: Is the DM trying to encourage murderhoboing? Because I swear I would probably turn.

[@tobiaspause1775]

The most horrendous part of this video was the Diable 2 player. Who picks up an nonmagical Katar for selling? Disgusting.

[@PTp1ranha]

The children yearn for the railroad.

[@Jokervision744]

first one sounds bit like how some of the jokes in the movie naked gun go.

[@rpgarchaeology6049]

That last story could have been about my group.

[@unluckyone1655]

For the first story, improvisation is often a good thing. However dragging out the main objective by constantly throwing random bs really bogs down the game. It took, what, 4 sessions to finally start the first mission in the game? Yeah I'd leave too. Story 2; these players just want to power game and do cool stuff and never fail. Op should just dip out if that is not how they want to DM. As for the group, either stick with a modded out video game or find a PbP group on discord

[@abrr2000]

last story, those players want to play a computer game. If I was the DM, I'd dejectedly tell them, if that's what they want, go play a computer game. Then I'd get up and leave.

[@fred_derf]

In the second story, the OP and their players are the problem. Of course you can continue to try to pick a lock for as long as it takes you without it breaking. The risk trying to pick a lock is setting off a trap (assuming it is trapped) and the time it takes. if you're not pressed for time take as long as you want. This is why 3.5e has the Take-20 rule, which takes 2 minutes and success is determined by a "roll" of 20 (+ your modifiers).

[@frederikklotzskov9673]

the first stories GM sounds like AI Dungeon in human form

[@conspiracypanda1200]

The people in the second story are bizarre. They don't want combat, they don't want NPCs to disagree with them, they don't want anything to be impossible for them to achieve, they don't want anything to make them _pause_ and _think._ Like, at some point, are you even playing a game? Or are you just making up a story about being pretend supermen with your friends? Because if that's the case, do you _need_ a DM? Maybe you could just...make your pretend story with your collective imaginations instead of holding your poor DM buddy hostage, since the rules they provide are so unnecessary. My DM told me a story once about how she ran a campaign with a simple puzzle to open a door. However, when the players couldn't figure it out, they decided to just _dig under_ the door! They congratulated themselves greatly for being such geniuses and it ended up being a funny story, but that creativity only comes about when there are _rules_ in place to prevent the first and easiest option that pops into everyone's heads from being automatically possible. That's where the fun is found. It's in those situations where TTRPGs shine as a _Team Game._

[@Jermbot15]

Plans are useless, but planning is essential. Second story sounds like the DM and PC's are a bad match.

[@gazblackheart4596]

That group that doesnt want to play a game is awful, I would just quit as DM but you could try to run the game and just whatever they roll even a 1 just say they succeed and see if they complain or even notice you are just going through the motions not engaged. Like he said without a fail state or limited tries they will always succeed so might as well always make it the first roll regardless of number and see if they get it through their thick skulls why their ideas are stupid and basically turn the game into a dice rolling sim with no actual point or challenge. I have seen dms that should have just written a book before but this is the first time players should have lol.

[@destroyerinazuma96]

I wouldn't mind a slice of life game but only if I, the party, AND the GM were all in the mood.

[@IrrevMike]

Those players in the second story are an entitled bunch. They think everything should be handed to them on a silver platter. Where's the fun in that?

[@mattlazarus2489]

No one should have scripted immunity or the campaign itself. Campaigns should never be made with the intention of killing the party just to do it or because "it's funny". It should however be made to be challenging with a real risk of character death should the more major story segments not be handled properly. That's my opinion at least.

[@sebbonxxsebbon6824]

Introduce the spoiled players to 1e, Gygax style! A TPK would probably result.

[@IaconDawnshire]

*sees title* Where's the fun in that!?

[@StellaDraco]

That last story really sounds like the players just want something different than the GM. My current group's been dealing with similar, but more mild problems. I can't know for sure without hearing the player's side of the discussion, but this sounds more like they don't see the point of making entire encounters or rooms in a dungeon and then basically walling them off from it if they fail a roll. I don't know how strict the GM is being about any of this, and I don't think they should have absolutely no challenge, but I've played in games that are much more focused on character interactions in some cases or combat in others with little to no real choice in terms of plot or changing the world at large. These sound like Monster Hearts players (if the issue is more that they don't want areas to be needlessly locked off and would rather just play their characters interacting with each other, or like players who just want to run through combats and gather loot without really stressing about the choices or more serious consequences. If this is a very casual game and everyone just wants to hang out, I can really see the latter being more reasonable.

[@WhiteOwlet]

That last story just sounds like a bunch of inexperienced teenagers, tbh.

[@RatedB1]

Neither game style was "wrong" but the the problem was the mispairing between the desired outcomes of the DMs and the players.

[@shadiafifi54]

Sounds like the players in the second game want to play Skyrim with cheats on and a guide/walkthrough in hand.

[@IGSA101]

It is a proven fact, that people don't know what they want, and will obsinately make the choice they don't actually want when presented with that fact. There are multiple studies that show this, most famously the 'new coke' scandal.

[@23gameoverlord]

Okay not to sound mean but the party in the last story just sound lazy, and don't even seem like they actually want to play It sounds like they just want DM to read the the narrative of the campaign and feature their pcs as the mcs and make them Mary sues that get everything they want without putting in effort. Like really!? That's how you expect a campaign to be guys!? DnD is supposed to be an interactive story where you can immerse & interact with world and feel like you actually have agency in the world, and not be an idea on a piece of paper and be told what happens and then the game ends. All I can say is that I feel sorry for the DM having a party that don't even actually want to play.

[@RiveroftheWither]

Sooo the players in the last story all want Skyrim with console commands and cheat mods to max everything out. Thats it isn't it? These people are all the type who play rpg video games with cheats and thought d&d would be the same Not that theres anything wrong with wanted to play a single player game like that, different strokes for different folks, but that doesn't translate well into most TTRPGs.

[@Nikodraws149]

It sounds to me like they want something closer to a video game. Like they've played jrpgs and want table top games to be that but with other people involved.

[@PrideOfFantasy100]

That last group I feel has never played a game that wasn't on easiest difficulty and a guide on how to break said games. I can get not wanting a harsh game. Not everyone likes that grimdark stuff with a high chance of death, but that was just silly.

[@ArawnNox]

I hate saying this because it's so trite, but... that group in the second story sound like they've played too many video game RPGs. Especially that "no penalty for long rests in a dungeon" thing.

[@SirusEinzla]

Skyrim, they are wanting to play Skyrim.

[@playerblu3694]

Last story they don't want to play dnd they want to play skyrim

[@REfan2002]

All over the Hypno Kitty, Alice!

[@johnjafon2410]

The first story should of had the granny be a witch

[@comanderfrost]

Sounds like the group in the 2nd story wanted to play D&D like it was pen and paper Skyrim, though i guess that is to be expected from people raised on what passes for RPGs these days.

[@BurroughsProductions]

Honestly the last story just sounds like the dm and the party aren't a good fit. Some of the things the party wants is crazy but thr dm sounds exhausting in w lot of ways

[@BurroughsProductions]

@So Mad yea and his obsession with locks lol

[@robbietheweirdo]

killing a rabbit shouldn't be that bloody hard

[@ketrava0425]

Honestly. Just let them win. Had wave all things not combat. Make crafting instant and npcs do whatever the pc's say no check and just have them roll into co bat encounters. Either they will get tired and ask to go back or you can polish your encounter skills for a while and finish the campaign. Decide your gonna have fun no matter what they do

[@MyLittlePonyTheater]

Regarding lock picking in 5e: Sometimes, the best strategy for the game is to reward players for their build and allow them to do something because they have a certain modifier, without risk of failure (or with failure only resulting in a time loss). If you have a -1 modifier for picking locks (8 Dex, no Thieves' Tools proficiency), you cannot pick a DC 20 lock, even if you roll a nat 20. If you have a +4 modifier or below, you can't pick a DC 25. +9? Can't pick a DC 30. It's more of a skill level barrier and speed challenge than anything. Then, to make the player feel like their lock picking skill matters, set up a combat or puzzle scenario where the thief needs to pick a lock mid-combat, and give the lock a medium DC - 15 or so. An unskilled picker would take up to 4 turns to pick that, risking his group in the combat. A particularly skilled picker might guarantee they can pick this lock even with a nat 1. One example you can use is that the room is filling with acid, and the players will start taking damage every round until the door is opened. Another is that skeletons within the room are repeatedly animated at a rate of 2 or 4 per round, and the thief needs to pick the lock to a heavy stone door while the party fights off the skeletons until the group can leave and lock the door behind them. Consider what would be the most fun for your players. Broken locks just means you've wasted a significant portion of your prep time on content that the players will never see. Let them pick the locks and let them search the rooms as much as they like, but make sure there's a penalty for taking a significant amount of time to do so. For realism, lock picks can't easily break locks. You really need to be trying to do that, or you need incredibly terrible quality lock picks. You won't accidentally break any ordinary lock by picking it wrong unless the lock was designed to break to deter thieves. Those locks should be rare, too. Don't forget that the players can always use force to take down locked doors, and not just strength checks. A determined dwarf with a pick and an axe can get through almost anything. Just penalize them for the sound by having monsters rush at them from further in the dungeon - that's the benefit of having a good lock picker, you can proceed through dungeons more quietly. You don't need any more penalty or reward than that.

[@WolfgangDoW]

"skill level barrier and speed challenge" is exactly what irl lockpicking is like If you have the skills it's just a question of what's worth your time to get through No lock is completely unpickable, just it's not worth it And yeah cutting out the locks or hinges should be an option. Not all doors though, depending on design

[@MyLittlePonyTheater]

@@WolfgangDoW Yep! It bothers me immensely when people sacrifice realism and RAW for homebrew mechanics that add unnecessary, contrived penalties for failure.

[@JimAbooGames]

Wow sounded like they wanted their hands held the entire time. How are you supposed to play a game like this without any difficulty?

[@truerandomness]

My cat's name is Alice!

[@elvenatheart982]

Algorythm dragon sated

[@CallMeKes]

Alice is my favorite of the bunch.

[@ArchonZach]

I think the party in story 2 are more interested in a power fantasy or just prefer roleploying not everyone wants to spends hundreds of investing into something that can be lost due to a single bad dice roll

[@atriumgamesmore4336]

But they specifically said they don't care about the Social Pillar; so it's literally just lazy power fantasy.

[@andrewprovencher3400]

I fail to see the problem if that's what my player's all want then why should it matter

[@raymondharnack4160]

Last session I played in 2 days ago we were fighting a shit ton on vampire spawn a vampire snd 2 succubi. Idiot teammate was wrapped around a corner and still cast spirit guardians catching my character in it without seeing me so I was eating the damage every turn on top of being tag teamed by 2 succubi. Was charmed by one then the other. Character finally died straight to death from succubi attack but I would have lived without taking 30 damage from the spirit guardian damage. Would have had 2 hp left….. DM scolded idiot player and let me get revivified…. My character is a pyromancer sorcerer/hexblade and I go out of my way to not friendly fire my teammates…. 🤦🏻‍♂️ shit is annoying EDIT to clarify succubi charm kept from teleporting out to safety was using my wisdom saves and passing the SG damage only to fail right after on the succubi charm…. It was a total doom spiral

[@DTylerFultzVA]

Games-good games-are challenging. The fun of a game comes from building your own strategies to beat those challenges. If you only want to win at everything with zero challenge, can you really call it a game?

[@fred_derf]

In order to improvise well, you need to have done more preparation than when you don't have to improvise. You need a detailed understanding of the world to invent new parts of it on the fly or you will just end up with a bunch of independent "scenes" and no cohesive story.

[@adventureswithfrodo2721]

Regarding thr E firstory you only have te persons opinion. All the encounters were valid for a group going through a town.

[@kevinchong5424]

The kind of game those players want sound boring as heck. I mean, is OP playing with children? That I can kind of understand, but still...

[@ultimativerHexer]

Why play an RPG If you can play a Table Top?

[@Stairdweller]

This first party sounds INSUFFERABLE. "omg this DM keeps describing our surroundings and expecting us to interact with people and it's hardly leaving any time for physically threatening the townsfolk" (Yeah, I know I'm probably being unfair here but imagine being a DM trying to give your table interesting things to do and they're just silently fuming about how they didn't go straight to the boss fight.)

[@asioca1992]

It shouldn't take 3-4 sessions for the party to reach a bandit camp, especially if each session is 4 hours long. It is also especially annoying when the gm is patting themselves on the back for wasting everyone's time for four hours a week.

[@yourface2464]

Counter point. The interaction with your surroundings, and dialogue with NPCs, needs to be important, or have purpose. When you plan, you have to trim the fat and strike a balance. Going to an NPC, only to have that NPC redirect you to another NPC, is a waste of time without learning anything from it. You have to give your players a sense of progress and immersion. When your group takes on a job to fight some bandits, a good way to hook your players is to give one of the bandits a name, and list their past crimes. Give previous victims to talk to and gather information. Learn about the surrounding area they camp in and how to use it to their advantage. You could say something like these bandits trained wild wolves, and while out foraging for food, you find wolf tracks as a possible lead. There is so much you can do, even with improv like all this was off the top of my head. Your fluff has to be substantial.

[@donut_is_me_name211]

i'm here to help the algorithm...comment110

[@derajtheyuler7101]

Comment

[@scotthuffman3462]

Hot take: Its okay to want to play a game of DnD without risk or challenge... So long as everyone at the table comes with that expectation and agrees to that kind of game.

[@grimw5009]

while will be the first to admit that 5e is not the best version of D&D (it's the weakest current D20 system) but they seem to want a video game.

[@chriskimball4893]

Second story: DM, here's what you do. Give them what they want, but in a MaliciousCompliance sort of way. Start a session and just tell them that they win. They want combat with no stakes? No way to fail? Start the session by just telling them they win the adventure. Their characters beat the big bad, they become legendary heroes, cut, print, end of story. And gloss over the details as much as possible. Be sure to mention every exciting encounter you were planning for them, every awesome dungeon, the EPIC LOOT you made for them, make sure you mention all of it. And then go into as little detail as possible. Tell the Fighter about how he obtained the Sword of the Ultimate Warrior that made him such a legend in combat, then tease him with just enough detail to get him excited, then move onto the next thing. Wow the Rogue with how he becomes so legendary in lockpicking that he effectively puts himself out of a job because locks are banned from the realm. Wow all of them with the things they could have experienced... Then pack up your books and tell them the campaign is over. There will not be another session. How you're going to start looking for players for a new campaign. And if they want in? Nope, you're not interested in hosting a Skyrim adventure. Tell them you're going to run a campaign with a little more teeth, with some real consequences for failure. And then just... run the same campaign you were planning for these fools, but with a new set of players. No reason you should waste all your effort on these guys. Let them think they won when, all the while, they'll be wondering what they missed out on just because they didn't want to face some failure from time to time.

[@asioca1992]

or, better idea, just cancel the game and restart it with people who give a darn. Seriously, it may not be the most exciting outcome, but there's no point in wasting everyone else's time and ending up at a dndhorrorstory yourself just to one up some people who clearly don't want to actually play the game you're trying to run.

[@andrewprovencher3400]

or you could just give them the experience they enjoy and be happy you are making your friends happy.

[@st5756]

@@andrewprovencher3400 They dont want an experience, they want to be showered in loot and told that they win no matter what. Thats not an experience, or its just a tragic and boring one.

[@MK_ULTRA420]

BBEG: "Please kill me. Go ahead and take as much time as you need. I'd do it myself but I respawn every time. I don't want to be alive to see the end of this realm. Oh you're all level one? Okay fine, here's 19 levels with every class promotion and the gear from the last group of legendary adventurers, now will you kill me? No you can't leave without killing me, that's what the last group tried to do."