Playing Classic Sonic Wrong

[@dude9904]

"Sonic had a rough transition into 4D" God that's great lol

[@csabaszabo6859]

I like your pfp

[@eiadithecoder620]

i cant imagine what sonic 4d model looks like... AUGH

[@CapnJigglypuff]

The "Only Gameplay Matters" argument reminds me of the discourse surrounding Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite after it came out that there wouldn't be any X-Men characters in the game and someone at Capcom claimed that people only like playing as Magneto because he can dash in eight directions. Solid gameplay is solid gameplay, but the context added by characters, art, and music can't be understated.

[@taychikian9229]

Yeah he called Mag a function lmao

[@davidtavares3427]

Combo Fiend Said that, i believe.

[@davidtavares3427]

@@MidlifeCrisisJoe it was dumb especially since MvC IS a cross-over fighter the characters are one of the most important part.

[@MrMister681]

Read today that even Capcom thought people didn't really remember the X-Men all that much, which is strange because some of these games featured Wolverine VS Ryu front and center, as if he were a bigger deal than Spider-Man or something

[@Melphisto_]

I really do wonder who that essayist Snake was talking about, I gotta know how one could just dismiss sound & visual design work like that.

[@Cybershell13]

The Chad Sonic 1 enjoyer... Not gonna lie that gimmick for Sonic 2 cracked me up, I might have to try that some time.

[@Tehsnakerer]

I think it'd be more interesting with you! You've got far more memories to fight against

[@MrCairo283]

I was just wondering "Hey I wonder if Cybershell is in the comments." And I scroll down and there he is.

[@bbgun4158]

@@MrCairo283 Lol same.

[@gamanzhiydanil]

Now you just have to make a Yakuza video and the world hunger is defeated

[@BackPalSA]

I hope to see many of these meme runs on the streams.

[@blueblazer9991]

"Playing Games in Weird Ways that May Spark Discussion" is hopefully gonna come back at some point, because this premise is very interesting and this video was very thought provoking.

[@thehoodedteddy1335]

Well the Spark part did

[@javsandarts]

@blueblazer9991 oh You got your wish

[@JacksGameShack]

"I like Sonic 1 because it's rough around the edges." This quote sums up exactly why I love your channel.

[@JacksGameShack]

I'm at the point in the video where you are talking about the mechanical purist and I'm reminded about a character from Inscryption.

[@Jaydakin]

@@JacksGameShack Total misplay.

[@unlimited8410]

@@JacksGameShack That robot, what was its name again?

[@thehoodedteddy1335]

“Of course that’s sodding why, Snake” -Snake, correctly guessing what we all were saying to ourselves

[@punkitt]

"There's more to games than pure interactivity" is such a good thing to hear as a dev!! A lot of KZbinrs I watch are _deadset_ on gameplay being the only thing that matters in games. And, y'know, I totally get that that's the main reason why people play! But it's nice to hear that someone appreciates all the extraneous work that enhances that gameplay as well.

[@QuintessentialWalrus]

One thing I always appreciate from Matthew Matosis's videos is that, despite being an essayist who puts gameplay first, he often takes an aside to talk about how much a game can benefit from aesthetic detail AND how much work it takes to develop those details from scratch. Let us never forget that aesthetics ARE part of the gameplay, and they either improve it or detract from it.

[@Shenaldrac]

I feel like if these people who say that gameplay is the only thing that matters _don't_ play every video game with the volume muted and skipping every cutscene that it's possible to, then it's pretty safe to call them hypocrites and ignore them entirely.

[@rotomfan63]

Honestly the main reason I play most singleplayer games that aren't roguelites/likes or 4X or Grand strategy is story. And even a lot of games in those 3 do have a lot of story stuff(grand strategy usually the least since their the most history based as with 4X but Stellaris and various total conversion mods for HOI4 proof you can still get it in there.) And those last 3 genres are well known for RNG based replayablitiy.

[@etymonlegomenon931]

Can you care a little bit about the gameplay though?

[@KenzoElysium]

That "mirrored" mode reminds me of how Hotline Miami 2's Hard Mode flipped the stages upside down which throws off your muscle memory to an unexpectedly high degree.

[@fastgreg-mj2ju]

Not to mention the extra enemies and lack of lock on

[@Shiratto]

The reversed mode in the Demon’s Souls remake acutely made me feel ill by undoing around a decade and a half of muscle memory I had formed.

[@qazwer333]

Except, HM2's hard mode does more then just flip level.It does a lot more then just throwing off Muscle memory as it makes the AI smarter, has picked up weapons have less ammo, The enemy's placement and what they spawn with change, and your lock-on is completely disabled. Its hell and Is far past the point as to being unfair.

[@RetroPlus]

This reminds me of speed runners playing the mirrored map mod in gta san Andreas

[@Laenthor]

Fun fact, the Sonic Encyclo-speed-ia that just released officially mentions Jon's romhack of 3d Blast. Sega officially acknowledges a romhack, this is another pretty cool moment.

[@Tehsnakerer]

That's awesome, thanks for sharing

[@ExValeFor]

Snake, you may as well be an honorary challenge runner now. You're not kidding, this is hell. This is worse than beating it without hitting a badnik. This'll break your average challenge run youtuber.

[@Tehsnakerer]

Welcome to the ring

[@eyitsaperson]

@@Tehsnakerer which ring? im seeing a lot of them in this video

[@thehoodedteddy1335]

For which challenge in the video?

[@suedonnym]

One of the most gigachad "video essays" i've ever seen. You completely remove any pretentious baggage that comes with a video essay by combining challenge runs and fascinating talking points. I found myself constantly enthralled and in agreement instead of annoyed. Well done, man.

[@BorntoOrnn]

3:29 "While I can't deny that it might be nostalgia" while a fucking "COPE" sign is edited into Spring Yard Zone is probably my favorite little hidden joke in the entire video.

[@saladplainzone]

Not edited in, that's in the original game

[@whatsup5235]

Funny coincidence though

[@dude9904]

Just finished the video and wow. I actually really loved how this is both seemingly a meta examination of other critique's and a story of your own personal experiences I hope myself to one day post not shit videos on the internet and this one strangely is really giving me a lot of inspiration to at the very least, want to try. Really looking forward to whatever discussions arise from the Adventure era and onward.

[@TheInfiniteReview]

Thank you for the kind shoutout! Damn you for making me realise I will have to eventually review every single Sonic game!

[@Tehsnakerer]

Perfect, the plan worked.

[@NezumiVA]

As someone who has worried quite a lot in the past about that "switched on/switched off" mentality, the tail end of this video actually really hit on something for me. It helped me chill out a little bit more about that, and I'm grateful for what you had to say about it.

[@Bzehburger]

Really nice to see you cover the Sonic series, these games really needed a grounded and fair review that sees both rights and wrongs, which you do nicely. Looking foward to see you get to the GBA/DS games since i consider them probably the highest point in the series imo.

[@radiokunio3738]

Sonic Rush is Peak Boast Ngl

[@AspiringDevil]

I fucking love this video especially the part near the end about editing content vs streaming. I think both use different skills and as you noted it can be nerve racking for people even slightly socially awkward or nervous. Also I too used to record and edit gameplay on VHS tapes.

[@Tehsnakerer]

So many destroyed recordings of old sitcoms

[@FlameOfUdun96]

Clicked on this video so fast, blast processing is real

[@ntsakomathebula4840]

I did not, I took my time.

[@Tehsnakerer]

Doing what Nintendon't

[@allot5530]

Wow is that a picture of your face when you heard that the creator of berserk died

[@Shiratto]

I see you all the time favorite channels. Mainly SBFP content.

[@kalinflip]

I’m going to blast your processor

[@Boney9551]

10:20 I actually dealt with this too also living in PAL regions, whenever I watched stuff about old games I always looked up stuff about them and the sheer idea that something like the speed of music could be different depending on your region was just really interesting, makes me wonder how something like that would ever happen, if at all in a modern sense

[@Tehsnakerer]

Stuff like regional differences still happen, but it's no longer down to technical specifications I imagine, more what is and isn't taboo to be shown.

[@Boney9551]

@@Tehsnakerer yeah it’s mostly stuff like jokes that don’t translate well due

[@Evnyofdeath]

Because Pal Region hardware ran at 50hz they had to slow down the visuals to match so it would have a stable framerate. It was probably much easier to slow the *entire game* down then to isolate just the visual aspect.

[@radiokunio3738]

I grew up with the Ds Port so for me this is nostalgic even if it sounds like crap ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3Kli315j7B0sM0 )

[@SianaGearz]

@@Evnyofdeath Naively, you can run the same exact game (code/data) on 50/60Hz systems on 8- and 16-bit consoles without and that's what you get, because the timing source on the Megadrive for the sound routine is the z80 reset interrupt that the video chip emits once per frame, and other systems of the era had comparable timing mechanisms. It was common of SEGA to ship the same ROM chips worldwide to cut semiconductor tooling costs and better utilise minimum order quantity on titles that might flop. In later games, they implemented region detection and they would adjust the number of frames per tick in the sound player routine, so each song presumably specified two different tempos, like a 120bpm song will be 25 frames per beat in PAL and 30 frames per beat in NTSC. You can hit 100, 120 and 150bpm exactly between regions, but if you want 136bpm, it will be almost imperceptibly faster in PAL if you use nearest whole frame timings, this just being an example, there are a number of viable tempos each with their own possible deviations. While music tempo is relatively easy to fix like this, gameplay speed is a whole different order of magnitude, output framerate independence didn't become prevalent till Dreamcast/PS2 era, and even then was sometimes hit or miss. In today's games, there is actually still an underlying canonical tick rate, like 30Hz or 60Hz, at which the game logic runs, and a number of bypass and temporal interpolation mechanisms to decouple the output framerate from it, it all gets very complex.

[@DartictheuniC]

Legit a breath of fresh air in the critics scene. I love the idea to let your ideas flow using the games, how we get a glimpse at what goes through your mind and the end feels very relatable, even though not everybody makes highly seen videos on the internet, the questions of who you are, what you want to show to people and the need of being right and fear of criticism get touched in a very smooth way Kinda glad there are so many games you decided to go this way, take care

[@TheDiego908]

This video's script reads like the internal monologue I have in my head when I think to myself "what would I say if I made a video about Sonic"

[@Alienrun]

omg this! This is kinda me to, except I would get all perfectionist and self anxious about the whole thing and state have internal arguments with myself! Glad this video exists cause now I realize as long as your frame is consistent and truthful you'll be good as long as you put genuine passion in what your talking about! MIght consider making some "sonic analysis videos" yet again after thinking about doing so for so many years but never having the guts to do so for so long! lol :P

[@Jessica-el5yx]

So I'm watching this way later than I should be, but here's what I think on what 'A Critical Question' is covering, a game is done when you can access it, if you can play a game, it's finished, when a new version comes along, that doesn't overwrite the game you talked about. A perspective on a game from a long time ago - a game that with that time has changed and evolved - is still valuable because it's insightful and interesting based on the point in time it came from, you could make a review about, say, Team Fortress 2, in 2011, looking back at it today would still be valuable even though the game is entirely different, a bunch of new and adjusted content as well as an entire shift in culture, because that shift is a big part of what makes the original review so significant, looking at what *did* change, and what it was like back then, what was important. At least that's all the way I see things, though I should probably try avoiding putting together my thoughts and opinions on a subject when I'm sleep-deprived. Keep up the good work - if you're reading through this way-too-long comment (or really if not for that matter, either way works).

[@versebuchanan512]

Today was the day I thought I'd go check back in on the CWCki, see what Chris Chan had been up to in the last two years since I actually looked it up. In short, I really truly wish I had not done that. But new Snakers, cheers to that!

[@zenoblues7787]

You poor soul I remember I found out like 3 days after everyone else. That was not fun.

[@Tehsnakerer]

Going downhill will often lead to dizzying heights... Wow that sounded pompous nevermind hope you enjoy the video!

[@versebuchanan512]

@@Tehsnakerer Very much so, lol.

[@versebuchanan512]

@@zenoblues7787 I thought I could no longer be actually shocked by the Internet in general and CWC in particular, but. I guess the bar just got placed higher.

[@zenoblues7787]

@@versebuchanan512 In my experience no matter how much you think something has hit its peak or lowest point it often surpasses even that.

[@LizzPrilope]

watched this whole thing and it felt like a video essay classic. was absolutely shocked it was posted less than an hour ago. amazing work.

[@taylorgomes4163]

This is probably one of my favorite videos of yours. The hilarity of the gimmicks combined with the really thought provoking ideas about games and the way they are consumed was a great time. I just about lost it when you turned the TV upside down. Looking forward to the next video.

[@CommandantLennon]

My favorite personal gaming story is about how I beat sonic 1's true ending during exams my sophmore year, on a 3ds emulator. We had so many technical difficulties with exams that I had all the time in the world to play sonic 1.

[@JustCyanaid]

This video was really fascinating to me. I honestly love how fractured and out there it gets. It has the same energy of chatting with friends about random bullshit over discord while vibing with a game. I’m looking forward to future videos in this series

[@degeneratemale5386]

Every reviewer has to do a sonic game. It's a rite of passage attempting to articulate a look at one of gamings most popular and abused mascot. So good job

[@Tehsnakerer]

I am finally a reviewer

[@AngryAtlantean]

Oh, jeez... Guess I have to set myself up for failure when it comes time to touch this series. Lol. Reviewing Sonic games is almost like reviewing Pong.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

That person trying to argue that sound or music don't really matter to a game, is something I have to VEHEMENTLY disagree with on every single conceivable level.

[@sweatyslapfight7900]

12:58 didn’t see that coming. You’re a literal genius Also: did Shadow just pump a rifle?

[@Tehsnakerer]

An SMG to be precise, but yes. He pumped the hell out of that SMG

[@Calvin_Coolage]

I'm always happy to see others stumble upon the sheer ridiculousness of Shadow's pump-action MP5 for the first time.

[@lawrence3185]

would you like to play shadow the hedgehog 2005 my guessing is no i 100 percented that game and my guilty pleasure

[@OrobaSpyro]

POW POW POW POW

[@ootdega]

@@Calvin_Coolage Pump-action MP5 with an AR15 lower receiver and a rotate-to-lock magazine, no less. The weird - and slightly scary - thing is, with enough time and substance abuse, this could still be made to work. It would be completely pointless, but it could be done. Pumping a self-loading rifle to charge it has already been done before. That part would be easy, honestly.

[@rossmarshall566]

Awww, hell yeah! I was so hyped for this. Edit: That Shadow cutscene with DMX was amazing.

[@River_StGrey]

This was really really interesting. I don't make videos, but I relate to a lot of what you said because "what if I want to make videos one day? Am I depriving myself of the ability to make them effectively if I don't stay turned on when playing?" Which, being worried about how I'm consuming something today based on the hypothetical of how I might go about consuming it tomorrow-- is just very weird.

[@BeerDone]

Oddly insightful video, thanks Snake. Considering I have zero investment in Sonic, I'm glad I haven't skipped this one. It's definitely a mindset thing - some people work through experiences live better than in retrospect. I tend to construct cohesive perspectives in the moment, spending 30 minutes if need be on just a single section, topic, element, working through my mind's twists and turns on the spot, unable to formulate it all again if brought up later. Hell, this whole thing is just spur of the moment while I'm half-asleep... I'm happy for whichever way brings *your* thoughts into focus. Your manner of coverage has been very enjoyable over the years, both on games I have and have not played. Thank you.

[@frgblae]

I like how over the years you've never changed your sweet Adachi desktop wallpaper.

[@weirdox5007]

8:51 Didn't think I'd see someone with Copy Kitty on their desktop, given its relative obscurity. Just bought it myself recently, so thanks for the reminder to go play it! While I haven't played any of the Sonic games, it's fun to listen to your experience and passion for them. Also, Happy New Year, hope you're doing well.

[@Bukkarooo]

Love seeing someone who genuinely enjoys Sonic but also recognizes a lot of its faults covering the games in fun ways that brought up some very interesting discussion. Fantastic video. Also, I'm a weirdo who likes 3D Blast.

[@Jaymez2012]

The topic of 'when games are done' is one that I struggle with coming to grips with as well. Especially in this day and age where game studios rely on post-launch patches as opposed to getting as much right as they possibly can before launch. We are sold on the promise of 'improvements' down the line through patching, and it leads to a lot of arguments amongst players over what is acceptable at launch and what is reasonable to wait for in the future. I would agree and say that post-launch patching SHOULD be a net positive for games, but more and more games being released these days are using post-launch patching as a crutch, causing it to feel like more of a negative. So, while the concept itself isn't bad at face value, it definitely hasn't at all been handled well in the modern gaming space.

[@qeridexis8604]

What I watched: "Playing classic sonoc wrong" What I expected: A goofy video about how goody it can be playing some mascot platforming game in a wrong/weird way What I fucking got: A deep dive into how different our perspective of ganes can be because of the circumstances like patches, the environment we consume media in and parallel universes. No complaints from me man, this shit is why I may not watch your vids when I don't have enoughtime but still do a year or more later!

[@ketrub]

why is one of my biggest takeaways from this video "i need to try emuvr again" good stuff, in any case, i like how this video had more little jokes and references to the sonic games (and your older videos) than the average modern sonic game and unlike in those games they actually landed

[@amazed2341]

Started cracking up at that 2006 joke, love your stuff man so glad you’re making a sonic video

[@ArkVogel]

3:59 THIS right here. Once Sonic went 3D he became incredibly hard to control at high speeds to the point they had to put him on soft rails in later games to give the player the illusion of control. You really had no freedom to explore and experiment.

[@unlimited8410]

I literally couln't care less for most sonic fan games and 3d sonic games too, but Sonic Utopia perfectly translates this speed into a 3d environment through a surf-like fashion. Just the demo is a masterpiece, just one level and I've poured more than half a hundred hours into it. You should check it out, loads of potential for it.

[@MexicanSheepMan]

Always found it relatively easy to control Sonic and explore around the levels in SA1, especially with the broken spin dash.

[@THATGuy5654]

"By Oil Ocean Zone, I'm having no fracking fun." That pun pleased me way more than it should have.

[@rogueishcharm]

"[Sonic] is like getting into a comfortable, soggy pair of slippers" - I don't know if I've ever heard it summed up better and more concisely than that.

[@GeekCritique]

I'm the yard stick! :D

[@Tehsnakerer]

Hey man, really love your Sonic retrospectives and hope you're doing well!

[@darthgamer9861]

keep geeking and critiquing!

[@brandnamepending4817]

as someone who plays fighting games, your discussion on patching is incredibly relevant to that genre and just felt really personal? idk, but keep up the good work

[@xmegami5511]

I really love your videos because even when I disagree with you I'm still having a good time. Like there's loads of critiques who will make a totally vapid take and it'll just sort of sour my experience with the video or, in the worst case scenario, the video maker in general. By comparison you explain stuff in such a nice and detailed manner to the point that when you do throw around a more generalized point my brain goes "Well if he went into detail I bet the reasons would be perfectly sound". It's the difference between talking with your friends vs talking with completely twats online. And I don't bring up friends in a parasocial sense but in a "this is super chill and anything can be said cause I'll get the why and the why makes sense". Just wanted to make it clear I really appreciate your stuff, it's a great time.

[@QuintessentialWalrus]

I earned a degree in English (regrettably) and it bugs me so much when people make arguments they can't defend. A good argument should make someone understand exactly why you feel the way you do, even if they don't agree with you. TehSnakerer has always been good at that. Sonic 3&K might be my least favorite of the 2D Sonics I've played (1, 2, 3&K, Mania) but I completely understand its appeal thanks to the thoughtful, well reasoned arguments of channels like ShayMay, The Geek Critique, etc. It's an art.

[@areallyboredindividual8766]

The wildest thing I found about Sonic is the vast range of audiences it attracts. One one hand, you have John Carpenter, one of, if not the greatest horror director. Then you have fucking Chris Chan.

[@MarshalHopalop]

This video is why I really appreciate Tehsnakerer when so few, if any, other "video game essayists" (though, that title seems both reductionist and overly-expansive) resonate with me. Snake does more than talk at us, phrasing his beliefs as a sort of judgment. Rather, he talks with us, thinking aloud, acknowledging self-contradictions and perspectives, and giving both praise and piss-taking to aspects of gaming often taken for granted. He feels much more honest than other essayists I've watched (or at least tried to watch). And I'll take honesty over artifice any day.

[@FormaThought]

Really funny and genuinely insightful/thought provoking ideas. The upside-down TV thing made me smile... then I saw the cables crossing back over the screen and cracked up. Keep up the good work!

[@CaptmagiKono]

I find it pretty funny that the sonic series seems to be getting completely re-analyzed in the KZbin space. For a while it was a series that people just memed on, but not people are sort of taking it more seriously again and not just crapping all over it, it's just an interesting switch. Also, whoever said that games don't need audio to be good just was trying to sound like an "intellectual" or something, if they actually played many games without the audio or soundtracks, they would realize how wrong they were real quick. Video Games are not just one singular stimulus, they are an entire package of gameplay, story, visual, and audio put together to make an entire cohesive package.

[@planescaped]

I usually do play games muted these days. >__>

[@jtlego1]

I'm so glad the discourse around Sonic has stabilized somewhat beyond the stupid "Lol Sonic Amirite?" slinging.

[@GameMaster0097]

Great video! My thoughts going into the video was that this was going to be an analysis on the Classic Trilogy and how people often misjudge what the games are about, that Sonic is all about speed (you did touch on this in the Advance 2 segment) while in reality Sonic is a mixture of platforming and exploration as well. How you need to utilize your momentum, or better way to put it, your understanding of how the character controls and how you're not going to play like a speed demon on your first playthrough until you understand the "flow" of the character and how the stages are designed. Instead, I got a really entertaining video just about your various thoughts on certain subjects as well as some really fun challenges to try sometime. Great stuff and keep up the good work! 👍

[@ladyxbeans5495]

its always a fun time whenever you talk about the sonic franchise, as its one i grew up with as well. gun the wolf and his antics still ring loud in my mind as perhaps my favorite review of sonic forces, alongside certainly being one my favorite commentarycomms series. i cant wait to see and hear your opinions on the later games and how you screw with them.

[@XMoTheProX]

It honestly feels surreal to see you cover Sonic games in the same way you do all the other generally obscure or otherwise fascinating games. (I know you made a video on Forces but to me it almost doesn't count since it was so much closer to its actual release and it served a lot more like a review) I'm very much the type of person to consume all the Sonic videos from a youtuber. Of course you've thrown in a few nods here and there to Sonic in your other videos, and given how you cover so many other games with your unique insight, it's truly great to see the Sonic games get that signature TehSnakerer treatment. I'm really excited to see the following instalments of this retrospective. Keep doing what you do!

[@davidreeding9176]

21:42 I used to be a mechanics purist, mostly because I dont care about graphics and I dont listen to the games I play. I don't know when I changed, but it really bothers me now how pitiful shotguns sound in almost every video game. None of them get a shotgun right and that angers me endlessly.

[@autumnoraki]

I'm just gonna say that changing what you said on Sonic CD with the Bad Future into the Good Future was absolutely genius and I loved that so much. The entire video is good but that really stuck out to me.

[@zcritten]

I really wanna know who that essayist is now Also sonic and phoenix wright are perfect examples but I'd say gun sounds work better in how they effect our gameplay The amount of games my favourite gun has the best feedback is pretty often

[@somik-i3x]

I have the same curiousity about the guy.

[@SalusFuturistics]

I remember Sonic: The Dark Brotherhood. Loosening the Screws on the Bull Head above Robotniks Fireplace so it'd fall on him when he has his Afternoon Tea.

[@thesidneychan]

This franchise was once my obsession. I started with Sonic 3. I would play the game just to reach the Ice Cap Zone to listen to the music. The franchise was what motivated me to write my first fanfiction, fanart. Even joining one of the many the sonic forums back in the mid 2000s (and discovering weirder stuff among the fandom, and also Palcomix). Tails was my favourite character though.

[@ВадимКоваль-е2ы]

Palcomix is classic

[@thisisasupersayin376]

Thanks for that Sonic 3 segment. I'm in the middle of making a video that I'm trying to do live commentary for, but I think I just realized I have the same uncomfortability with it that you have. I'm think I'm gonna try something edited that I can make snappier and inject more personality now.

[@bluerie._.3021]

Playing Knuckles' Chaotix incorrectly: unbind the c button. Throwing your partner and the hold mechanic are your only ways to move vertically now.

[@benjaminskatzes]

Just found you channel and I’m blown away with the quality. I enjoy the fact that you talk to your audience with confidence no matter the topic and you don’t seem to dumb down or sugarcoat anything. You gained a subscriber and a fan. Keep up the excellent work!

[@jerrytc2978]

"id want to hide the fact sunshine is bad from as many people too" ok i was tolerating your sonic opinions but you've crossed a line mister, sunshine deserves better then the raw deal nintendo gives it otherwise, this video actually caused me some emotional distress, and in a good way, what you said really made me think on my life today and how i spend so much of it trying to go back to the past. very well made video and good things to think on

[@roys.1889]

Hearing you talk about your experiences as a streamer reminds me a lot of my life experiences as an ADHD person. Having 15 things that need your attention at once and having to juggle between all of them one at a time in a losing battle of attention and attrition is how I have to operate a lot of the time. I know it's not exactly a pleasant experience, but it's kinda heartening to know that someone who doesn't have it can like get a condensed experience of it even if only for a while.

[@layton1362]

What an absolute weird, mess of a video. And I loved every second of it! It tackles some really interesting stuff and each verve completely off topic is a delight. I love your game focused videos a lot, but this was a very fun breath of fresh air! Definatly looking forward to another one in this series!

[@GymnopedieTornado]

Put this on randomly because I’m hungover and it showed up on my recommended. Really glad I did--honestly one of the best video essays I’ve seen in a long time. The more digressive style really works for you, but it wouldn’t if you didn’t have fascinating things to say. Particularly your notes on kind of rewritten nostalgia and “when are games complete?” were truly fabulous and honestly kind of moving. Liked and subbed, can’t wait to see more

[@Manonthe3up]

The perfect video to pass an hour, been looking forward to this one since you mentioned it on Twitter.

[@nekomaster1000]

Really fantastic video! Loved how all-over-the-place it was, these more meta videos are always really fun :D

[@WMan37]

On the Critical Question section of this video, I have my own thoughts on this. When it comes to games with updates, for me, the answer is simple: There's three reviews that matter. *-The on launch review matters the most of any of these three reviews, as it's the most reflective of a game's critical reception of a game when the most people are buying it (most of the time). It also serves as a time capsule of the state of a game's first impression and is the most historically relevant. It's also the time where a game costs the most money, which I've found is actually a factor that colors how I feel about a game, since there's lots of stuff that I know I'd give higher marks if it costed a bit less, either due to anemic content or a lack of polish on launch.* *-A review 5 years later. This is a generous amount of time for updates to happen that polish and refine certain things but if a game left enough of an impact on the industry it's likely still relevant and new feeling around this time. This is where a game is "complete" in my eyes, because if basic stuff is still being added beyond this time threshold something has gone wrong, because this is the part where past said threshold additional support is either because it's a live service game, or there's entire expansions that are new experiences entirely that could either count as outright or pseudo-sequel content that is being added. It's also where people get an idea of whether a game is really starting to stand the test of time or not.* *-A review 10-15 years later. This is the point where something becomes a retrospective, not a review. Nostalgia but also hindsight has had time to settle in and color people's view of a game in a fashion that may or may not be entirely objective. If people are still talking about it, these days people also want to know how it was developed, thus developer commentaries like the one you suggested for the toy story backgrounds and stuff become extremely fascinating, more so than they possibly would have been on launch when people were just focused on playing, not reflecting upon, a game creation. One also gets to see how a game influenced other games if it did at all, and how games have built upon the original foundation set by the game in question.* Speaking of wanting to know how something is developed, that's something that in the age of more communal experiences on the internet, is relevant to the livestream of consciousness section. Because things are so communal these days, I find developers talking about the construction of a game to be just as fascinating as the games themselves these days. One of the best ideas IGN has ever had was the "Developer reacts to a speedrun of their game" thing. It usually gets them talking about what went into the design of something and sometimes surprise at how it could be broken so easily.

[@LonelySpaceDetective]

I'm honestly not sure if I'd say that the at-launch review is the most important, myself. I mean, it _is_ in the sense that immediately after release is when people are most interested in reviews, but what about down the line, after updates? Games can change and improve a lot after patches and content releases, while the at-launch review is ultimately stuck at however the game was on day 1 or even prior. For a lot of games this doesn't really make a difference or the game at least was already decent to start with, but what about a case like No Man's Sky? The at-launch review would likely be a lot more harsh on a game like that than something made years later after the game started getting redeemed. That may not sound like an issue, but consider there are people who read or watch _a_ review on a game and no more, and don't really go out of their way to look for corrections (if the review author even made any). Someone of that vein might end up looking at an at-launch review first, draw the conclusion "wow this game sounds terrible" and forget about the game; glad that they saved some money, even though the review is no longer representative of what the game even is anymore. All that said though, I wouldn't say the post-update review is necessarily more important, or even less, not to mention that my example doesn't account for games where updates made the game _worse._ The question I have to finally pose is: What _is_ a review? What is the goal of making one? To tell your audience whether the game is worth spending money and/or time on it, summarizing its strengths and flaws? To critique a game in every facet and in detail, judging its concepts and execution of them? Those aren't incompatible ideals of course, but they each suggest a different philosophy on how making a review should be approached. Like, something like Tehsnakerer's Playing vids are very much overkill if you just want to tell an audience whether a game's good or bad, but you don't really have the breathing room to properly dig into the details of a game in something like a 10 minute video if you want to do a deep look. I apologize if this is all a bit confusing or poorly thought out; I am pretty tired right now, but your comment made me start thinking. EDIT: Occurred to me that I bounced between two separate points ("at-launch reviews can be damaging down the line" and "what even is a review anyway") with no real connecting thread. I guess that's the risk in stream-of-consciousness writing when you aren't thinking straight.

[@WMan37]

@@LonelySpaceDetective In No Man's Sky's case, that's what the second review is for. But No Man's Sky is only noteworthy in this regard BECAUSE of how it was on launch, and we have the day 1 reviews as context for this, because I would not recommend Day 1 No Man's Sky to anyone and people would need to know to avoid it till it has its comeback story. The day 1 review is most important because that's when the most people tend to buy a game, it's nice to have No Man's Sky moments but NMS took years to become better, we only have the gift of hindsight in regards to that game. To say that the day 1 reviews are unimportant because of how no man's sky is _now_ is to make excuses for how it was on release before people even knew it was gonna get updates, because you also on the flipside have a game like Anthem, which was bad on launch and then its devs just fucked off in the long run. Day 1 reviews are a reflection of how a promise of a good game manifested into reality initially, when it goes up for purchase, and is at it's most expensive. That's why it's the most important review. Right now at the time I type this comment, Back 4 Blood is currently undergoing a disaster in public opinion compared to Left 4 Dead 2, a game that came out a decade ago. The day 1 reviews of that are reflective of the experience that I'd get if I dropped $120 on the deluxe edition of B4B versus $10 on L4D2. It doesn't tell me how it's gonna be in 5 years, it tells me "if you exchange money now, this is the experience you're going to get." That's extremely valuable. B4B hasn't had a comeback story yet, all we have is a roadmap. Besides, I'm tired of "Comeback stories", they're nice and all but I want something to function _on launch,_ or simply crash and burn with nobody who's defending its *future potential* like a battered spouse, because that's what things were like 6th gen and below. I don't like the idea that someone can sell me a promise of better things and people will make excuses for that, but that's what the second review is for, to tell me when it's no longer "potential" and has manifested into something tangibly good worth buying. Updates should be for finishing touches and additional content, not giving me the other half of the promised base game. I wouldn't ask such "lofty goals" of a game if I didn't play other games that were simply just good on launch and better later.

[@shelbycat7306]

i genuinely like the style of your videos, and you're one of the only people to get me to watch 4 hours about some random game i know nothing about because it's interesting and you never seem to sugar coat your own feelings on a game, or your own habits and bias. just seem like an honest guy.

[@balrogdahomie]

I’m not here to theorize, since he clearly left the name out intentionally, but I have to say I literally can’t imagine anyone but Egoraptor making that mechanics purism argument

[@mattshuey1]

The weird bend into maybe this is a suicide note around the 40 minute mark is too meta with this being a sonic video.

[@manboy4720]

sonic may run fast, but he cannot outrun god's fury.

[@Tehsnakerer]

The wrath has been long coming

[@V_y-r_e]

This feels like a vid you especially loved making, and I’m all for it. Really like when you inject more of your personal experiences into these vids, you really do bring some interesting perspectives to the games you play, and that’s part of why I come to these vids so much.

[@Buzzy_Bland]

You’re not slipping that jab at Super Mario Sunshine past me. I’m not forgiving you for that.

[@Tehsnakerer]

I understand, the truth is the hardest thing to forgive.

[@Buzzy_Bland]

@@Tehsnakerer ;-; Lies and slander.

[@Toastoffire100]

I genuinely went "Aww, it's over?" at the end. Great work! The "Livestream of Consciousness" chapter was especially interesting

[@TourFaint]

Sonic advance 2 was soo good, i remember playing tha same levels dozens of times and always finding a new path to follow, the levels were so freaking smooth, there was no places that stopped you and forced you to platform, slow down or change direction. You could finish the entire game without letting go of the right button once.

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

Sounds like a boring game.

[@sorencaster]

Snake, this is honestly one of my favorite video of yours. Obviously I'm always here for you to break down games I otherwise don't know much about, but hearing you use them as springboards for other topics you otherwise wouldn't have reasons to talk about is what makes me keep coming back for more. Also thank you for clearing up the fact that you LIKE making these behemoths of videos, makes me feel a lot less guilty for wanting more of them.

[@MrBubblebox]

Honestly the only thing different I noticed between this video and your usual stuff is you went on tangents a bit more and you doing that is part of why I like you as a creator. Talking about your thoughts even if they parrot someone else probably why I think Yes The Revolution is one of my favorite videos of yours. Ive watched several videos of Sonic and I share that for some reason those games serve as a good standard for a reviewer. Looking forward to Yakuzies

[@CaelanKier]

really cool video, fascinating script and interesting perspective, didn't expect such a nice experience. genuinely refreshing and memorable video

[@LongSinceDead1]

I love you Snake, and this video is great, but I have never disagreed with you harder than I have when it comes to Sonic CD. Much in the way you love Sonic 1 for being rough around the edges and experimental, I love CD for being weird and unique in spite of its flaws. I used to not get it, but a few years ago it suddenly clicked and now it's one of my favorite games. It's a beautiful chaotic cluster that is infinitely fun to fuck around in and explore for me. Although as you say, it isn't purely CD's mechanics (although I do enjoy them) but rather the entirety of the game's aesthetics, music, and moment-to-moment experience in conjunction that makes it special. It's a game that's greater than the sum of it's parts. I do agree about Wacky Workbench though. That level is a fucking mess, and not in a fun way.

[@LongSinceDead1]

Wow I didn't even realize this video was an hour until near the end. It flew by. I was not expecting how real and introspective it ended up being. This is probably one of my favorite things you've done yet! Except the Sonic CD bit. I don't know if I can ever forgive you for having a different opinion about Sonic CD.

[@auratheva]

Paused the video overnight at 10:04 and came back the next morning wandering what fuckin virus I had downloaded last night

[@OneManCast]

"Things snap only when they're rigid." That's a line that goes hard.

[@playerunknown2230]

Sonic was the second console game I ever owned. When I was younger my dad got me a NES but I was too young to know what the fuck I was doing in Mario so the only game I could play was duck hunt and the console ended up being my dads lol. Later on after I got a gameboy and played the shit out of contra and tetris for a couple years, my mom FINALLY got me a sega genesis for doing well at school and I played sonic every day after homework and every morning in the 20-30 minutes between after my mom left for work and before my cousin came over to take me to school. That little gap before school was fucking glorious hahaha, Sonic and the sound track bring back so many awesome memories. I love that game so MUCH. It makes me sad that very soon young adults wont understand the referemce " OOOOH SHIT!! He got the SONIC RINGS KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT OF HIM!!"

[@SegaDream131]

I occasionally carry gold bangles around and when the time is appropriate, I run into a nearby object and throw them..... Getting less and less attention as the years go on....😑

[@andrewsheiman8574]

I am unfathomably angry that you played Sonic CD without music, but also that's a great gimmick choice. Take my damn like.

[@CakewalkingTortokhod]

20:00 oh boy, that was JA discord, isn't it? I think I was a part of that convo

[@kirbystarwarior]

JA?

[@suspectsn0thing]

"More knotted up than dodgy fanart" is one of those wonderful phrases which raises some very concerning questions that I can't ask without also implicating myself. Bravo.

[@ablationer]

Eagerly awaiting your thoughts on Sonic Battle for the GBA. That game was too weird to live, too rare to die.

[@COlimar788]

Delightful and intriguing video! I love the gimmicks the punchline of revealing them hits every time, and the larger discussions were really interesting as well.

[@projab]

My view as a """gameplay purist""" is to examine whether presentation supports or hinders gameplay. For me, the argument isn't "gameplay is the only thing that matters", more like "gameplay is the most important thing", as that is the part of games that differentiates them from other artforms. I'm not saying you portrayed purists in a negative light, just wanted to give my perspective! EDIT: I don't mind if people don't care that much about gameplay and play only for the story etc., this is just my personal preference.

[@Drydoctor-qo5wt]

Ok, I will forever love Sonic CD because it does flow. It’s one of the coolest looking and sounding games and is really distinct compared to every other classic Sonic game. I will never understand why people don’t like this game because the flow in this game is incredible.

[@avanagenda5840]

No fr I like this video a lot but this guy does not understand sonic CD at all

[@Drydoctor-qo5wt]

@avanagenda5840 Hey this guy gets it

[@ardgwatlol]

'More knotted up than dodgy fan art.' lmao. Thanks for the video, Snake! I'm not someone who has had much of a history with Sonic, but it is really interesting to watch people talk about it. I think I am just a bit too young to have really experienced the initial Sonic-craze, and my friend group throughout school never really talked about it much. Sometimes it feels a bit like I am peering into some kind of alternative gaming history with this huge series that I barely know anything about beyond what people on KZbin say.

[@Telnaior]

The timing of the MM2 loopback door alongside "argument going around in circles" absolutely sent me

[@PsychadelicoDuck]

3:40 Your audience knows you and you certainly know your audience. EmuVR sounds horribly tempting. You weren't the only 90's kid who put let's plays on VHS for god-knows-what-reason.

[@tabikat]

this is one of my favorite videos of yours. great job!

[@suspiciousbaldingman6340]

19:39 I have a feeling I know exactly which discord and exactly who you're talking about. To add to what you said, treating games in such a technical sense is a misunderstanding to me. Video games are not a hard science, they're a science used to engineer emotion. Emotions are not based specifically on hard science.

[@acebandit1231]

Whisper it to me? I'm mad curious who Snake was talking about.

[@jokubasrazas2255]

I would also like to know who it is

[@rudolfambrozenvtuber]

I've got to know

[@_-Lx-_]

That opening was such a good dissection of the general commentary around the series. All things that have been said before but your choice of words sums it up very precisely imo.

[@BBPirate06]

Mathewmattosis definitely has lost his initial luster after hearing more nuanced essayist over the years. Dude uses absolutes way too often. Dunno why I felt like bringing that up... Anyway, great video as always

[@BackPalSA]

Saw a few of your videos in the recommends... And this is the first one I clicked. And I'm very glad for that, because this was great!

[@CleaveTheDragon]

21:00 I think the argument I would have against that person is that, even if you don't care about the aesthetic qualities of a game, they play a major role in marketing. It's difficult, maybe impossible for some games, to convey the appeal of gameplay mechanics in their abstract form without picking up and playing it yourself. It's possible for word of mouth to spread, but it's so much easier to see images and sounds directly tied to a specific game that convey the type of feelings people want to have. They also help it stand out visually.

[@Pimploaf_YTP]

I think they'd probably exclude marketing from the definition of what the game strictly is. To me (and I have a somewhat intimate understanding of this, having a similar stance when I was younger), that sort of talk -- gameplay is the only thing that matters -- probably comes from feeling spite over a tightly-made game being overlooked compared to some near-real-looking-but-perhaps-lacking-in-mechanical-refinement triple A hit: so the issue to them IS that graphics are a good advertisement, one that sells a product that they feel has a hollow lack of the meat they want.

[@raspymorten]

That bit about "cutting yourself off from your own nostalgia" with the 50 hertz music stuff reminds me of how I can't really remember much of the old Danish versions of cartoons and kids shows that I used to watch. The english versions have almost completely surplanted my old memories of those shows.