Playing DEFCON with a Nuclear Arms Expert

Nuclear arms expert, Dr. Jeffrey Lewis joins Waypoint's Rob Zacny and Motherboard's Matthew Gault to play DEFCON.
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[@danielmcgillis270]

14:38 The sound track for this game is prefect for the game content. A Woman sobs, another coughs, footsteps walking down a hall. Constantly with that low hum like you are in a bunker safe from the carnage. The nerve-wracking WANK! when the DECON level goes up, then more in rapid succession as the missiles are flying, the low concussive booms in the background. In the end the final score. Game over. I love this game.

[@skepticalbadger]

I imagine doing that in the middle of a nuclear exchange would indeed be nerve-wracking.

[@user-bi4hw2wi2k]

Thanks , much appreciated

[@GhostEye31]

I've always felt the best way to explain this game is that you aren't trying to win so much as trying to lose the least. Which is more or less how nuclear war would go.

[@destroyerinazuma96]

I remember reading somewhere that a small-scale nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan, of two hundred nukes, would lead to significantly reduced sunlight in the next 2-3 years. While this isn't total exctinction, its worldwide hunger for several years and decades more to recover completely. The "winner" of a full-scale nuclear war would have very little operational infrastructure to rebuild + finite food supplies until the next harvest distant of several years to a decade, even if all military conflict ceased worldwide and even if we ignored civil war and marauders/bandits. It'll be a veeeery tall order, even if you preserved, let's say, one million people in shelters and they all were super disciplined and level-headed.

[@ultraflopp2802]

@@destroyerinazuma96 as I rightly remember some science teams were working on nuclear war scenarios and they discovered that the nuclear winter is a myth, that if the total nuclear annihilation would happen it’s going to led to 1 cloudy day, depending on an environment, maybe in the overpopulated regions it would cause nuclear winter cuz them are going to get the most of the nukes (Europe, India and east coast of China, coasts of US)

[@destroyerinazuma96]

@@ultraflopp2802 Interesting, I'll look it up. Thanks for sharing.

[@HypothermicIce]

The video brought to you by Left Ear Only Gang

[@houstonjoker3836]

3:03

[@Silent_Death_0]

@@houstonjoker3836 what?

[@houstonjoker3836]

@@Silent_Death_0 put on earphones, then you’ll get it

[@dagdbot83]

Laughs in speakers

[@patrick8330]

Speaker gang bouta pull up

[@kevlarburrito6693]

Speaking as a war veteran, the only people I have ever met who argue for war and nuclear deterrence in terms of body count, are people who have never and probably will never experience war. One life lost is a fucking tragedy, and the people who devalue life so easily, are naïve.

[@sammosaurusrex]

People are capable of tolerating immense human suffering - so long as it’s happening to someone else.

[@JavaJunky]

"The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic." - Josef Stalin

[@uberspaz7484]

You. I like the way you think.

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

People who haven't seen death are easy to lie too about it. Worse, they hype each other up, trying to compete to be the most evil to demonstrate their manhood, poisonously redefined as state utility. The only kind of person who says we should drop the bomb are those who substitute their souls for the state and their pride for its violence. The autonomic sort of brainwashing, whose greatest victims are those who volunteer to be part of it, and push it on others.

[@Kruzgamer]

@@JavaJunkyquite famous quote.

[@yarders9191]

This would have been a lot more enjoyable if the audio balance wasn’t so far to the left!

[@hind6461]

Do you know of any way to fix this for a viewer? If you were to mirror the audio, that should resolve it, but I don´t know how you could do that, appreciate all possible advice.

[@ThesbjergGames]

@@hind6461 use speakers

[@hind6461]

@@ThesbjergGames not possible, but still thanks

[@Noah-tn5bc]

@@hind6461 Sorry for late reply, but there is an option to make the audio output on windows mono, meaning that the output to both left and right is the same.

[@hind6461]

@@Noah-tn5bc I am so happy right now, I tried fixing this for like a year, but now I found a program called Equalizer and it finally works, thank you so much!

[@sebastianfletcher-taylor1024]

5:00 "Think you're getting Kyiv back? I don't think so."

[@mr.jamicide4948]

ICBM is also a good game to play. listening to rob in my left ear ad seeing him on the right really made me inspect my headphones to see if they were broke

[@thirdcoast6513]

Didnt know i needed this video

[@muwaffaqmoinuddin403]

I lost my right ear hearing from all the nuclear radiation

[@henryhamilton4087]

6:30 Actually in game ABMs from your silos only have a 25% chance of an intercept per hit Far from perfect but also way better than irl ABMs.

[@shawdawg3675]

Great video talking with the Expert. One time playing this game, dont know how I pulled this off. I believe it was only ai enemies, I had no alliances, struck cities but silos as well, and ended up with 0 Million Deaths. Didnt get hit once

[@Asgardians3t]

The reason they cant move their naval fleets is because they are right clicking too close to the fleet. The game also wont let u click/move really close to land.

[@HistoryTeacherSteve]

This was so great! Oh my gosh what a great discussion on a favorite topic of mine. Just bought Defcon and ICBM 😂

[@inwex8350]

How about a game of tic-tac-toe Professor Falken?

[@Simonskilamb]

This video was fantastic, great idea! Great game and was interesting to hear from an expert!

[@destroyerinazuma96]

In Hearts of Iron and Total War games, you have at least the option to request peace or offer peace. I don't see that kind of war having that option ;_;

[@meemmahn2856]

disarmament should be everyone's ultimate goal. unfortunately, it just isn't feasible. An example is two people pointing guns at each other. Both people won't drop the gun until the other does. Neither side will drop the gun until they are unable to hold it any longer.

[@lastword8783]

I think they should have played the game, recorded it and then had a podcast about nuclear war while commentating on what they did in the game.

[@nickduncan8941]

i'm just sort of listening to this in the background but as soon as he responded to "cynical 90's kids" with CHALLENGER the first thing that came to my mind was Columbia. not quite the same but i was hanging out with a buddy of mine playing the playstation 1 and the whole trailer shook and we were like wtf and went outside and saw the contrail and a little puff of smoke and only found out some time later that it was a space shuttle full of people. real wierd thing to have actually seen even though we were so physically and emotionally removed from it.

[@woodroez]

Ha, just re-watched this last night on Twitch and wondered if it was going to get scooped for YT! A fine piece of work. I've added the game ICBM to my Steam wishlist btw!

[@sammosaurusrex]

Really interesting discussion! This is the only game I’m glad I’m terrible at

[@kanter1598]

46:12 *FINALLY switches from Mono to Stereo again*

[@landeretxabarrigomez8382]

4:21 game start 9:48 defcon 4 15:48 defcon 3 23:47 defcon 2 33:47 defcon 1

[@0Clewi0]

Doc seems more devastated by the story of the runner up going to school that all the deaths because of nuclear weapons.

[@PFpants]

Nice, do more like this!

[@adorableweiner1099]

and here we are again the fear of a nuclear war

[@Loki_K]

I demand a replay (please?) with him knowing how to play

[@pop5678eye]

1:07:52 'we're almost there we just need more money' summarizes the military-industrial complex. Most of the US 'defense' budget does not go to fighting personnel but to for-profit corporate military contractors. They get the best of both worlds: because their money comes from the government (i.e. you the taxpayer) their funds are guaranteed. As a private entity however they can keep most of their books closed to oversight and public scrutiny. Even better, at the end of the day if they screw up (e.g. look up how many delays and budget overruns plagued the F-22 and F-35 projects) Congress gives them MORE money to fix the errors they themselves created. But sure, let's feel 'patriotic' by waving flags at parades 'for our troops.'

[@Troglodytarum]

2 seconds in and that audio has made my decision on watching any further for me.

[@212th]

This game looks terrifying. Enjoyed the vid. Some really good points here

[@toadofsteel]

So that blue AI player was obviously playing as Wakanda...

[@harlleygurrola8394]

Defcon is the civilian equivalent of 'Able Archer'

[@nnn4376]

1:09:45 anyone have links to where I can read more about this incident? I had no idea this happened.

[@deshawnsalsberry8172]

My right ear seems to be broken I literally thought my right AirPod was dead or just messed up

[@acombo]

my left ear enjoyed it

[@cynicalcitizen8315]

The game that War Games is based off on.

[@kinagrill]

other way around. Was based off of War Games.

[@RuminatingStoner]

solid state / liquid lasers and hyper velocity projectiles that use magnetic acceleration, paired with quantum AI might enable a feasible missile shield

[@stickiedmin6508]

There are all kinds of feasible ABM technologies. Knocking an incoming warhead out of the sky isn't really that hard, especially with modern technology. The problem comes from the fact that, in the battle between ABM systems and MIRVS, MIRVS will always win. No matter how accurate an ABM system is, throwing enough warheads at it *_will_* saturate it, and building more warheads is always easier than building enough ABMs to account for them all. There's also the problem that, if a perfect ABM system *_were_* possible, its owner would effectively become invulnerable. That would mean they could attack with impunity. Imagine if The Cold War USSR had such a system - would The US believe them if they said they wouldn't attack? How about vice versa? No way. They'd start planning, and preparing to neutralise them. There's no version of an ABM system that actually *_lowers_* tensions and makes the planet safer.

[@RuminatingStoner]

So an EMP detonation with dual or tri launch vehicle points that utilize non WMD atmospheric or orbital prosecution points wouldn't be viable? I challenge that a layered system with sufficient critical redundancies would succeed. Though I wouldn't be willing to bet the planet on it.@@stickiedmin6508

[@snugget7601]

none of these are real words

[@ladsvideos]

Such a great idea, loved it! Interview skills could be improved though, ideally you want to ask less leading questions and let the interviewee do most of the talking

[@Dr.Adamastor]

Lesson Nº 1: never use a Mac if you're traying to unleash your nukes on the enemy (34:39).

[@kanter1598]

My left ear enjoyed the video

[@C05597641]

Unless the AI got a big upgrade, no, even a new player that has just a couple of games under his belt against other humans will be playing better than the AI.

[@the_algo_rhythm]

It's possible to decap strike against any faction, as long as you know their launch window.

[@Olive_Gamer139]

Here's my opinion on nukes: nuke=bad

[@ironknightgaming5706]

watched the whole thing.

[@212th]

What did you think?

[@bagels725]

My left ear enjoyed this video

[@meh92]

imagine using headphone

[@zetetick395]

What are all those line demarkations in the ocean off the East Coast of Australia? 41:25 This is a beautifully crafted strategy game, but good grief is it depressing! @_@

[@JohnGottschalk]

Might have helped to sketch out a bit more what is going on in the game, I didn't really know what people were trying to do or why?

[@johndane9754]

Kill more of the enemy population than they kill of yours. That's DEFCON 2:11.

[@stickiedmin6508]

​@@johndane9754 That's the concept of the game. Not the mechanics of it. That doesn't describe what's happening on screen, or why.

[@kevlarburrito6693]

The same argument about anti ballistic missile system success rates in this game can also be applied to literally everything else in this game up to and including the players themselves. An assumption that 100% of involved mechanisms will function 100% of the time with 100% efficiency is just silly.

[@michaelc.5809]

My left ear loved this video

[@hanshazlitt4535]

Read Scott Horton's new book: Hotter Than The Sun

[@Ends_Of_Invention]

00:05:03 DOGCON 4

[@mohammadabuelhawa2058]

LOL

[@liquidinhaler1839]

Half of Canada's population W 😅🤣

[@DomhnallOfZena]

Left ear robert...

[@anmordi285]

Look! What a silly game about war! 10 minutes later: *oh no.*

[@benmiller200]

When do we get the recently tested lasers and hypersonic missle updates so you can have a proper rematch.

[@DiamLever]

My left airpod loved this one!

[@ml8808]

You are weird but what you said was petty cool

[@Arcgateway]

Assuming that russia is a "responsible nuclear power" is a grave mistake.

[@tescoshortage]

who thought it was a good idea to record in mono

[@the_algo_rhythm]

You can't move any naval unit within the designated coastlines without mods. Would highly recommend any mod that increases realism towards NATO boundaries. That said, yeah dude, don't park your subs directly on coastlines. That's how you eat ASW from enemy bombers.

[@pop5678eye]

1:16:22 Throughout the 90s we had a deal with Iraq that prevented them from building WMDs. As long as that deal was in place international inspectors were breathing down their necks enough that even with things they were hiding they never had enough breathing space to do anything about actually building the weapons. Result? Iraq couldn't build WMDs. (this is not my saying, this is what the intelligence agencies concluded in their report after our invasion) In North Korea we never negotiated a deal and hence in their isolation they could do whatever they wanted on their territory. Result? They built nukes! In Iran we had a deal that prevented them from any large scale development necessary for the capacity to build nukes. We were constantly breathing down their necks. When we abandoned the deal they immediately ramped up that capacity and expelled any check on their WMD aspirations. Would you rather have a criminal on parole who is constantly monitored and has to report to the police that they are refraining from further criminal activity or a criminal you let go completely free because you say 'well, they will lie anyway and commit crimes anyway so why should we ask them to check in with police once in a while? We will just threaten them with guns and that should stop them...'

[@acetate909]

You can't hold a controller with nuclear arms. Stop booing. I'm leaving.

[@gregoryhype8228]

whats wrong with the sound

[@mrnobuddy3549]

wow, Rob just really hates Mexicans huh. Sao Paulo is *right there* man

[@paulrodriguez320]

Can I get this game on Android....or is it PC only

[@steveo23023]

Pc only I believe

[@EdwardJamesKenway...]

100 likes Good job

[@allisterburdett7341]

The game is perfect . . . the users are 'finnicky'😶

[@johanneswestman935]

… listening to this today as the British defense minister is threatening nuclear war with Russia and Putin is speaking in Moscow right this minute. We’re closer to Armageddon than ever before. There is no place to hide - we will all die. Keep that in mind when tempers get high arguing over Ukraine.

[@stickiedmin6508]

The British aren't the ones threatening nuclear war here. Putin is the only one making threats.

[@johanneswestman935]

@@stickiedmin6508 Nope. At the time that this comment was made people were talking about how it would be possible to do a nuclear first strike on Russia and take them out. We are ruled by imbeciles.

[@remixgameyt1172]

i found one! to say: nothing ever happens and nothing ever will

[@pop5678eye]

Imagine if an adversarial power patrols using warships/air forces with enough firepower to wipe out most of your major cities a mere 20 nautical miles off your coast in the name of 'freedom of navigation.' Heck, imagine if that distance is 100 nautical miles at a 'safe' distance. How would you react?

[@andywood375]

A great game, but nuclear war seems so pointless.

[@rd._874]

Nice pre programming for what’s about to happen.

[@skepticalbadger]

Oh yes? What was that? Or are you back on your meds by now?

[@rd._874]

@@skepticalbadger You live under a rock…

[@stickiedmin6508]

​@@rd._874 Has "it" happened yet Tyler? How much longer?

[@rd._874]

@@stickiedmin6508 yes. It happened. The population is no longer willing to fight back. No need to nuke when the majority of the population will now do anything a government agency says. Covid. Shots. Masks. Fear of war. Everyone will comply and nobody will fight.

[@leaky2642]

“Shooting down ICBM’s is offensive “ WTF? No thats self defense

[@skepticalbadger]

You didn't listen. He's talking about pro-actively striking ICBMs before launch.

[@stickiedmin6508]

Imagine you and your opponent are standing, aiming pistols at each other. Then your opponent acquires a system that lets them neutralise your bullets before they get to him. He can hit you, but you can't hit him. Do you feel safer, or more threatened? The strategic balance has objectively changed, to your disadvantage. He's won the battle before it starts, by making your arsenal, and the deterrent value it represents, worthless. Sounds pretty offensive to me.