Playing Root Digital Until I Like Root

[@metalrock720]

I own 130+ board games and Root is my favorite game of all time. Only discovered it in February this year. I tested it with the app first and then got the game. I became absolutely obsessed with it. I have also taught a TON of people how to play the game. Largely - choosing the right faction and feeling like you have strong control over the game is critical. And for that reason, I found that for people decently good a picking up rules should go with the underground duchy first. They are a strong faction and have very unique systems. My brother first played root as the cats and gave it a 5/10. His second game was with Duchy and then he changed his rating to a 8or9/10. Also the other factions and people playing should be very explicit about what they are doing and someone really needs to explain the advantages and disadvantages of factions in the middle of the game. That person should be the most experienced and explain what you can do to stop each faction. That level of politics makes the game great. I literally spent a game explaining what new players can do to stop me and I ended up losing and still had a lot of fun. Also a random side note - I have the exact reverse opinion about TI vs root. There is way too much going on in TI for me to enjoy as much and the other issue is that it takes 5x as long to play. I don’t feel like I have as much control over the game with so many moving pieces and luck events. Plus it is worse when the game is so much longer. Haha. But to each their own - I just found it interesting and respect you opinion. I do think enjoy,ent over the theme is critical too and you may not like the game as much for that too.

[@Shelfside]

Hey awesome! Thanks for sharing this. The comparisons between TI4 and Root are perpetually fascinating for me to mull over :) -Ashton

[@pinoypc21]

A review of digital board games sounds like a good idea if it’s something you guys want to do. Not a lot of board game reviewers dive in digital games such as this. Thanks for the review!

[@Shelfside]

Sure thing, I'm interested in doing more! -Ashton

[@joaquincaceresguibovich3182]

@@Shelfside if you do, could you make a review about Armello? :D

[@digitalsublime]

its great that you guys actually play the games enough to properly talk about them... refreshing. keep it up!

[@Lavoye]

I didn't like Root at first, then learned to play it correctly and it became one of my favorite games. It's a heavy game to learn since every faction is a different game as everything is mixed together. Everything plays so differently, yet they all work on the same board, using all the same assets, it's a masterpiece of asymetry. The digital version is pretty much perfect as well.

[@ZedEdd]

The switch has a garbage touchscreen. The Root app looks and plays great on the iPad

[@pepsi-man76]

Are the icons bigger?

[@nitrorev]

Root definitely isn't for everyone but I'm surprised Ashton doesn't dig it given how similar the overall scope is to TI4. I think a good teach is vital for a good experience since how you explain the game can make it way more complicated than it needs to be. It does feel like the 4 factions are 4 different games tied together by one core system but since I know dozens of games already, it doesn't feel like a heavy lift to learn the 4 factions individually in order to play Root. As far as dealing with the 2 insurgent factions, yes, battling WA is annoying because of their defence advantage, but battling them isn't the best way to handle them. Spread Martial Law (3 of the same warriors in a clearing) to slow their growth or park a stack of warriors on top of them to keep them from leaving the base. With Vagabond, you need to have discipline and withhold crafting too many items early or you'll just give them the game. Also send Vagabond to the woods early when it matters most, of you wait too long then way more damage is needed to really slow them down enough. As for Digital, unfortunately, the Nintendo Switch version doesn't have a chat (think about the children) but there's a chat for mobile and steam users. The AI is universally agreed to be terrible to the point of it being a meme but AI is really just there to help you learn. It's integral to start playing against humans who actually think and can be reasoned with. The app isn't perfect, none are but it's a fantastic implementation and a lot of expansion content is available which massively improves the experience (the Exiles and Partisans deck removes the Favour cards which is much better IMO). I think Root is the best game of all time but like I said, it's not for everyone. No need to feel pressured to like it and don't let us Root Stans shame you for not liking something.

[@JaJDoo]

in TI everyone is playing the same mechanics (excluding perhaps the virus) but have some tricks and advantages in root each faction play a completely different game - unless i played a faction AND remember it i have no idea what they're up to and how to counter it, and frankly i typically dont care

[@JaJDoo]

also - many factions depend on circumstance. example: alliance depends on other players to move thru them to gain cards, while root has a lot of factions that "pop". we just had a game with alliance/lizards/ravens/moles - alliance player was miserable.

[@TaQa04]

TI is not even remotely similar to Root or other COIN-style games. I dislike Root (and COIN games) because everyone **must** be on the same skill level, or somebody goes unchecked by their counter-faction, and just wins the game.

[@victornguyen1175]

ROOT really needs a table of people who are equally competent and invested at the game to flourish. When people are doing things to just shaft other players and when players aren't policing factions when they need to, the experience gets incredibly soured. A lot of variables include whether your faction gels with you, whether you're doing ADSET, playing with Despot Infamy, using Hirelings, the list goes on. All subtly but meaningfully altering the experience. Honestly when looking at Root, it really does feel like a shrunken down sped up version of the more lengthy games like TI4 which is probably why it feels like things swing heavily. It's a similar experience that uses complexity to make up for the condensed amount of time it takes to complete. One of my favourite things about ROOT is that I get to play the way I want to, and everyone else does too, and we're given a vehicle for those play styles to go head to head despite being so different. There's this careful management of who in the forest is making too much progress, making allies and enemies as necessary to keep people in line while moving your own interests forward. At a real table, you can be happy that you still had the opportunity to make a big difference even at a loss.

[@BryceChristiansen]

You are a champ for doing this. I love the game but can understand why it's not a fit for you. I love that your content helps people get that though. No one coming to this is getting the thoughts of someone sharing what they felt after one play of the game. This game takes multiple plays, lots of learning, and prep to see it at its intended potential. And some people get there faster than others. I was lucky to play with a group that learned and grasped all its nuances quickly. We loved it even after one play. But I can not fault you after all the effort you've put in and still not enjoying it. Root is divisive, but you and Daniel have probably put together the most thoughtful and helpful review on the game so far.

[@KMReviews]

I would LOVE to see you review Eclipse, Second Dawn for the Galaxy!! Wayyy shorter than twilight imperium, tighter and faster, but super organized euro aspects but with the amerotrash dice rolling battles, asymmetry but not in to crazy of a way.

[@LouisTheOne]

Why do you need a review if you already like it ? 😉

[@KMReviews]

@@LouisTheOne because I also think they would like it, which would mean more people might check it out who may not know much about it. If I like a game I want more people to like it.

[@TheSnowman95]

Can you even buy a copy? Other than second hand for high $$$

[@LouisTheOne]

@@TheSnowman95 Found one a year and a half ago, new..... I think the reprint is coming soon (or they are all already sold out)

[@KMReviews]

@@TheSnowman95 you can definitely get it. It’s marked up though. Amazon for like $200

[@vinnieyang5422]

Have you tried playing it at two players with just the Cats and Birds? It removes a LOT of the mental overhead of remembering the rules for basically half the game and any political meta gaming as well so that you can focus on just the mechanisms of two factions. It's actually my favourite way of introducing the game to new players because it becomes super simple to teach the win conditions, movement, and battle. The rest is outlined on the player boards and plays much quicker to be able to see and comprehend a full game arc.

[@Shelfside]

I've played a little at just 2 players and liked it a little more, but judging on how Root is so political and area-control-y, I didn't feel like my experience there was faithful to the full game! Especially when my friends in person always play 4-5p. Cheers! -Ashton

[@anders6326]

You may not like Root, but I LIKED your vid cause I like and respect you guys. Also, you’re at least trying to play it again!

[@frankbraker1320]

Very helpful, especially the explanation that Root takes asymmetry further than Twighlight Imperium does do (which means it's not for everybody). You just saved me going through the same learning curve (and probably the same end-conclusion, especially when I tend to lean toward cooperative games).

[@arthursimsa9005]

I really don’t think it’s as complicated as you make it to be. I am surprised that a TI4 fan would not enjoy Root. But by now you made your opinion for sure ^^

[@benjaminloyd6056]

Like you, I've never been able to get into the physical game, but find the digital game more approachable. Glad I am not the only one.

[@WatchItPlayed]

I really want us to play a COIN game together.

[@joshuaminton4221]

I’d watch the heck out of that!

[@Pdhooge]

Personally I prefer the COIN games I've played over Root, but if someone doesn't like the latter, I'd be very hesitant to introduce them to the COIN series. Not that they are that similar in the end, but they do take everything Ashton identified as "taken to far for my personal taste" even further. Asymmetry, diplomacy, ... Those systems are very interesting in COIN,, but also blown up even further. They are differently paced than Root though, so maybe that speaks on COIN's behalf? Love your undying enthusiasm for that game series though, feels so recognisable. "If only more people would know about it..!"

[@tzera_rhuon]

Yo, this is a collab we NEED to see!!

[@WatchItPlayed]

@@Pdhooge I found I connected much more to the COIN system than I did the Root system, so I'm thinking Ashton might be similar. Maybe!

[@vinnieyang5422]

I would love to see you guys play Cuba Libre!!!!

[@robertthurman9866]

It's OK to not like a game. My all time favorite is Arkham Horror card game and a lot of people don't like it. I don't like politics/negotiation or hidden traitor mechanics, lots of people love those games. I'm just glad there are so many games to chose from today.

[@revbrentcolby]

I’m literally doing the same thing with the app right now! Started this week. I’m about 5 hours in. Thanks for the fun and honest review! My reason for playing the app is that I’m intimidated to learn and teach the physical game with my group. Everyone tends to like lighter, less cutthroat titles. I hear so much praise for the gameplay that I want to check it out. Many of your critiques for the app seem to relate to the switch. I didn’t have any of those issues playing on an iPad.

[@ElGalloUltimo]

This might sound crazy but what interests me about Root is that it can be fun even if you *don't* win. Winning seems so dependent on luck and faction that I don't think anyone (including the winner) feels like the winner won solely because of their skill. I would go so far as to say winning is not the point of playing the game. The point is watching and executing crazy power moves and enjoying them together with your friends to create new stories together. So yes, if you don't feel satisfied with a game unless you have a solid chance of winning because of your skill rather than just creating stories together with your friends using a complex rule system, it makes sense that you wouldn't like Root.

[@Shelfside]

Well said- I think it just really stems from me not enjoying the theme, because I get freakishly competitively while playing Root. Lots of friends I've played with seem to share your sentiment that they can just play (role-play too) and have boat loads of fun! I feel that way in TI4, but alas, Root quite hasn't gripped me in that way! -Ashton

[@XenithShadow]

14:40, considering one of the core premises of the entire game is kingmaking i don't think it can be to king makey. Another intresting issue with root as that the vagabond by defintion will always win unless someone prevents him from doing so as his required turns to win is 1 less than everyone else (at least of the older factions). Also the fact that you gain nothing from attacking the vagabond aside from preventing them from winning. Some faction just flat out dont work depending on your play group, in my case the river otter when literally nobody ever payed me for things (i had priced my thing apropriately, so it wasnt a case of poor pricing). I defiently like the theme/lore going on with the game but it does require a reasonable ammount of generaly game sense to not feel aweful to play.

[@kether82]

Hi from Italy! Looks like you keep doing videos on Root even if you don't like it, but I think there is a reason and that is you would like it to be a better game because it deserves it. When I first played it I noticed that feeling of uneveness and that fact that sometimes there are factions that you really can't stop. At first you may realise that you need experience, but that's not the solution: Root needed some adjustments. Well, looks like that now there are hirelings out and I'm hearing from many players that they solved that problem so add them to your next games (not on digital version, they're not implemented yet) and tell me after.

[@CitizenRare]

I also tried hard to like this game. Played the digital version a ton, which btw is probably the best version of any board game ever that’s been ported to digital, 10/10. But yeah it’s of those rare games where it’s like, ok it didn’t click the first time, but everyone I know really likes it so I should really try to learn it and like it… but just a recipe for disaster for me. Don’t hate the game, but man it just doesn’t mix with me.

[@gameofstones6560]

Absolutely hated it personally and I have very low standards for games. Like most to some degree but yea the theme, gameplay, “fun” just doesn’t exist for me

[@ChubbyChoncc]

Can't wait for you guys to review more digital boardgames such as Everdell or Gloomhaven!

[@DrMcFly28]

My first games of Root: (Playing against Woodland Alliance): This is bullshit! How the hell can you defend against these bastards, they just pop up everywhere and ruin my day! (Playing AS Woodland Alliance): This is bullshit! How the hell are you supposed to play with these bastards, I have absolutely nothing, I can't get anything done, and everyone is ruining my day!

[@Shelfside]

ahaha, everything is just super overpowered except for the faction I'm playing!!! -Ashton

[@spitfire4209]

The Root app done a ton of heavy lifting for me in learning Root. That was after trying the board game version a few times and knowing what the game was going for. I can see the asymmetry not being clearly explained being a major issue in learning from digital first. All said I would say Digital is a side compliment to the game and not a complete alternative. The app is still one of the best boardgame adaptations out there. Wingspan as well that app is great.

[@justininexile3445]

As you said, it probably doesn't mesh well with how you learn and improve in the game - especially if the theme is not enjoyable. Root I think requires a bit specialized way of thinking - to win you do need to optimize your every turn almost immediately - I would say the feeling I get from playing Root is the end turn in Twilight Imperium, where you have to figure out the puzzle of how to stop the leader from winning and set yourself up for the win. Root just doesn't give you that much time. Primary always try to do one thing that would get you closer to win, secondary take a quick look at the board state if you can sacrifice a few of your resources to hinder one enemy that is in lead. Alt win conditions are almost impossible to pull off so don't even bother. So the only real challenge is to know when to strike others and that is what I like about the unique challenge that each faction poses - Cats and Birds are classical, if you see Birds gaining, check if you can't force a Turmoil or destroy one roost. Hit Vagabond if you have spare action or get somebody else to do it - never treat him as an ally at any point - his neutrality/ally status is just an illusion - and that also removes one thing to think about - you have a spare action = Battle vagabond - if he must retreat to the forest that is usually enough to make VB irrelevant. WA - don't need to battle them if possible, just make it costly for them to expand with Martial Law and if you must, then give them cards that would not blow you up, you can't craft, but they could. If they blow up then again just march in or around to block them with Rule. If it helps - maybe just think of VB and WA as events and obstacles in the army game - not real players :D

[@Kool212]

I love Root, but Vagabond does need an update. A kooky faction that breaks the fundamental rules that is also top tier. If vagabond cared about ruling a clearing somehow or was nerfed to a mid tier they would be much more tolerable.

[@GPlewright]

Hard to really get what’s going on in Root from the digital app. Definitely a game for real play to see all the cards moving around and what’s actually happening - the Clockwork expansion does a nice job of letting you explore the base factions without pressure from a group.

[@jinsoloboardgames]

There are some games that just isn’t for one’s taste and that is something one needs to accept. This is what happened to me with Spirit Island. It seemed like the perfect game for me, and I tried to love it, but never ended up loving it, so I sold my copy after about 10 plays. I just moved on, never looked back since. I may give it another try in the future, but I don’t expect to love the game all of the sudden.

[@biyukun]

I'm currently in this process now--except a roommate and I sit at our individual devices and play an online game together. So there is more interactivity. That said, I'm not sure I'll ever get to the place where I love it so much I wanna own the physical game and teach it!

[@rennodumortier4581]

Before watching this video i was thinking of buying the game. And to be honest it is so nice to see a more negative but fair review when you usually only hear positive things about this game. Makes me feel like i can make a more educated decision

[@Shelfside]

Cheers! Check out our normal review for more info on Root :)

[@jasonjjj27]

I'm just learning the game on digital and quickly discovering that you should learn one faction at a time, but when learning a faction your going to keep loosing if you don't know how the other factions work. It's a bit of a conundrum, but I'm kinda getting around it by playing 1v1 with each character starting on easy mode and working my way up. It's a bit of a chore. If there is a better way to learn then let me know.

[@robinsmith6847]

Try the challenges in root. They hinder you and put you in difficult situations and you need to work out how to win. This really helps for understanding your faction.

[@fufu1405]

Weird, some reviews say the rules are not entirely like the boardgame. I thought I'd just get the game and learn how to play through it and then purchase the board game, but I guess that's not an option.

[@Shelfside]

Interesting! I haven't came across any rules that seemed off at all, but I haven't played in person for quite some time. -Ashton

[@arthursimsa9005]

It’s not weird. The game on the app is the same.

[@fufu1405]

@@arthursimsa9005 Thanks for clarifying. I just read some negative reviews on Steam saying some rules were different.

[@arthursimsa9005]

@@fufu1405 I'm pretty sure they are the same, but I might be mistaken. If there is one small timing thing that is off on an very exceptional case, that must be all there is to it. Don't let that discourage you;)

[@svachalek]

I think Root is a really fascinating and interesting design. I think I get a little more fun out of it than you, probably because I’m a little less concerned with winning and just enjoy learning all the weird little interactions. But, still I am with you here. If you really want to think it out, it’s just too much work to be actual entertainment, which is how I feel about chess too I guess. But chess at least is a simple game, you will very quickly learn at least what your legal moves are and how your opponent can respond. While Root has so many rules and intricacies, it takes quite some hours just to even have a sense of the possibilities.

[@Shelfside]

all of those little rules and intricacies left a really poor taste in my mouth during game night, where I was like, how many more game nights do I have to pour in before this gets fun for me!? So digital was a great return back to Root to really solidify my ideas on it without having to sacrifice that precious game night time. Cheers! -Ashton

[@Fatpie42]

Nooo don't put a favor card in the decree! You'll probably get a chance to craft it and destroy everyone!

[@dylannorthrup5439]

Runs great on iPad Pro. I used the app to familiarize myself with the game via tutorials and challenges, then taught my friends… personally, I don’t have any issues understanding what everyone is doing and why. The challenge is, like you say, figuring out how to counter the other players effectively without losing track of your own game. Everyone is playing their own game, again, like you say… however, if you allow anyone to simply play their game unhindered, they will just win - which likely sounds like how you feel about Vagabond, lol. Tight balance, but even without human opponents, the “politics” of who to attack and when or where to go and what to craft or build each turn plays out in how the games play out on the App, at least so far for me. If you enjoy playing mind games with your friends and negotiating over the table aside from your actual gameplay, then obviously at the table is the way. Shame it does t work for you - I think it’s an excellent design, and theme. Too many people focus so much on the asymmetry, they seem to miss the fact that all factions follow the same basic rules for moving, building, crafting, reinforcing, area control and fighting… also everyone gains points for destroying cardboard tokens (buildings, sympathy, wood resources, etc.) the asymmetry is essentially just the method for generating points; and points is how you win, so… it still boils down to, whoever runs their points engine the most effectively wins, and this game allows you to get in the way of others doing just that. Writing this response makes me want to play, lol… guess I’ll load up the app now 😂

[@Shelfside]

thanks for sharing this! -Ashton

[@dylannorthrup5439]

@@Shelfside controls look a bit janky on your Nintendo Switch, but it is cool they made it available there. You gave it a fair try - if you’re not into it, that’s your preference. Catan never feels right for me, and people love that game too. We all have our preferences. Hope to someday get the chance to play your favourite, Twilight Imperium. I’ll be curious to see what you guys think about their new flip-and-roll-and-write version, Twilight Inscription.

[@Shelfside]

@@dylannorthrup5439 yeah, I think the switch also had some lag problems! Gonna be covering some Catan expansions in the future ahaha. We're gonna do a review for Twilight Inscription too! Cheers! -Ashton

[@dylannorthrup5439]

@@Shelfside I will watch, lol… I do have some of the recommended Catan Expansions, but haven’t played them yet. Cities and Knights seems to be the preferred way to play for many.

[@johnschmidt1262]

I love this review I had the exact same experience. The kingmaker nature of the game seems to be in conflict with its complex mechanics. Any brilliant strategy is simply undone by everyone ganging up to stop the leader. So Root is more about guile and very social. Compare Root to Diplomacy. Many attempts have been made to add bells and whistles to Diplomacy but they all fail to improve on the original. Diplomacy understands what it is about as a game, adding complexity to the rules doesn't improve on the core game. However you might enjoy Oath. The complex mechanics and shifting victory conditions force alliances on players. The game is unfair in that random chance can easily prevent a player from having any chance of winning. This just forces you to support someone who can and lets you do what is more fun.

[@Shelfside]

Heyo! Thanks for sharing. I did enjoy Oath more for sure, but also not something I would play frequently haha. Daniel loves it! -ashton

[@Fatpie42]

Marquise De Cat is the standard area control engine builder faction - and it is SO frustrating to play!

[@melski9205]

Yeah I thought of doing the same thing, thank you for saving me the time. Sometimes you just have to admit that somethings are enjoyed best by someone else - without you.

[@adamwb8302]

Not liking the theme is a bad starting point for any game.

[@ravenbom]

I'm with you, I bought Root digital, even though I have NEVER enjoyed Root. I love Scythe and asymmetry, but in all the games I've seen, if you have a turn when 2-3 people gang up on you, you're done and forced to keep playing a game for hours. At least in Twilight Imperium you'll still have votes to cast and people can leverage you to their favor as king maker so that you can make up 2-3 points and end up 8 to 10 when you were stuck in last for 5 hours. It might be OK when you're playing with all veterans, but even if I'm not losing or winning, I feel BAD for new players and when someone tries to bring in new players because they're just not having fun. I LOVE the artwork. But a lot of my favorite area control games have come back mechanics like Inis, Condotiterre, Cyclades, Kemet... but Root doesn't have those mechanics and when you change your end goals, EVERYONE knows and can gang up on you, which will likely crush you enough to NEVER recover. Vagabond also feels too much like either sneaky winner or kingmaker if they're not in the lead.

[@Stormbrise]

Yes but twilight imperium takes about 11 hours to play, and root maybe half that time at most. As for the complexity, it was too difficult for me today to wrap my head around until I figure out I was shooting myself in the foot for not understanding my faction to begin with.

[@larrye]

I agree was just about everything you said here. I played six games and never could enjoy it. It's too easy to get screwed over by card draws or bad dice rolls. Then, if two players form an alliance against you, there's not much you can do. I even had a situation where the two experienced players formed an alliance and pulled out far ahead, but the third player refused any alliance with me so we could catch up. That game ended in a score of 30, 28,14, 12. Another game where I pulled out ahead early, then the experience player pointed it out so everyone just beat up on me for the rest of the game until one of them won. Games that are over 2 hours and the winner can be decided solely by good or bad dice rolls is just not a game for me.

[@TheStenfelt]

I'm with you. So many of my friends and family likes or loves Root but I can't really seem to agree with it. Thanks for the videos! ^_^

[@tokyozombe]

Root is a game that gets better the more you know the factions which does take time. Also the table talk is less needed than you think except for a faction like the otters. the annoyances of the vagabond is non existent when players know you should just hold off on crafting items until the final VP push. and attacking does cost a resource of action economy is usually a thing factions strive to balance or increase. whenever I teach the game vagabond always wins because everyone crafts all the items for VP and then when the vagabond gets too strong it hurts way more to spend a precious action economy attacking the vagabond when someone else might not even help and do their own thing anyway.

[@Vode1234]

Buying this to demo it to see if itll be good for me and friends

[@tzera_rhuon]

I never could get into Root, however I quite enjoy Armello, which carries similar themes yet vastly different gameplay

[@Shelfside]

I'll look into it! This theme just doesn't do anything for me in an area control unfortunately -Ashton

[@picivyvortac2641]

Soooooo you can talk online... If you're not on the switch. Nintendo has to protect the kiddies from entering chatrooms.

[@closedchill5243]

Root is a bad game until everyone at the table has played every faction several times. Then it becomes a very average game. To me all the hype seems to stem from the fact that its a 'cute simple wargame with animals', which is a novel idea. People were also amazed at the unique faction mechanics and 'look at this contraption' feeling. Once you get past these things, its a simple game with a small decision space that's more about politicking and guessing opponents next move than real strategy.

[@Exozik]

I thought exactly the same about the asymmetry in this game. It's one thing to create asymmetric power to factions but Root also create asymmetry with the scoring system and this is where I feel it is too much for me. I really liked asymmetry, two of my favorite games are Android: Netrunner and Cthulhu Wars. Thou none of them is pushing the difference between the factions gaining victory points in such a different ways as Root does.

[@Shelfside]

I think the scoring system is a huge one for me. Android Netrunner's asymmetry with scoring works because it is really thematically intutiive, and there's only 1 other asymmetric ability to keep track of. Cheers! -Ashton

[@Exozik]

​@@Shelfside Yes indeed!

[@upchuckles243]

I just read that and I'm like "yeah it's awesome" different strokes for sure.

[@TheCartoonHead]

I really wanted the Root boardgame and bought the Digital version to test it out, but I just DO NOT know what the hell is going on or what I am meant to do. I've won multiple games but have no idea how or why?

[@dannyteoharov8298]

Bless you, dude!

[@Shelfside]

ahaha thanks! -Ashton

[@cplmackinnon]

I prefer digital, mainly because I can just play Root... Bringing it to the table isn't particularly easy, and at first I found this game extremely hard to teach. The digital version was a savior because it allowed me to understand the game and experiment with it in quick successions, which made the subsequent in person teach much easier. To me, the digital version feels like the stepping stone towards the "real" Root. But the main problem with the game remains : it's just so inaccessible. Experience grants an advantage in every game, but in Root I think it's just too much. To me the main difficulty comes from the way everyone scores points differently, which makes it extremely hard to counter other factions if you haven't played them or don't know them. Root is still a good game, and the digital version makes it so much easier to play in real life.

[@ninecoffees]

Not much to do with the video, but I'd love if you guys would review Great Western Trail or maybe the upcoming Argentina/New Zealand standalone versions!

[@Shelfside]

I have the game with me, but no review planned anytime soon, just because the game has so much going on that is a bit to unpack! -Ashton

[@nufsioohay]

Oh damn! I haven't seen the whole video yet but I hope you do by the end of it haha.

[@nufsioohay]

Ahh oh well. It's not your game and that's fine haha!

[@Shelfside]

@@nufsioohay ahaha, yeah I was expecting to like it more! Unfortunate, but more games out there! -Ashton

[@3_14pie]

it's okay, everyone has the right to be wrong

[@skrotnisse8396]

This seems like a thinly veiled advertisement

[@JohnGreenUkr]

Great Opinion, thanks you a lot. Was Fun ) And you, this game have a to confusing and over - complicated rules. The entry barrier is too high and not justified.

[@karkosky3472]

So... how about that Root TRPG, tho?

[@milanstevic8424]

Root is short enough so that you can play two games in succession. You don't really need to win each time to feel so special. Sometimes you're just a rock in someone else's shoe. Sometimes you're a rock in everybody's shoe. In this game sometimes you can even make someone win by hurting them (i.e. when the cat wins a Domination via Field Hospitals). Here's how you can work around the complex analysis: With 4 players over 2 successive games there are 10 possible outcomes in total. In 4 of the outcomes the same player had won twice. In the remaining six outcomes the victory had been split between two players. There is a 10% chance that you're the one who wins in both games, and 30% that you're the one who wins once along with someone else. So you're a winner 40% of the time. This doesn't account for any skill, just by random chance alone. With 3 players, this random chance goes up to 50%. So relax. This game is played to be enjoyed, and the winning conditions are there merely to align the faction goals, make all their turns as efficient as possible, which is what gaming is all about, most of the time. For some people gaming is all about the victory, but sadly, life does not actually work that way, and rarely you will win in anything. In the meantime you really want to get better at coping with losses and imagining the zany characters of this colorful woodland. There are also many allegoric parallels to be drawn through various game mechanisms. All in all, good time with likeminded friends. If you don't like table talk, maybe try solitaire puzzles?

[@2ceBorn]

Playing against the computer is awful. You should try multiplayer.

[@Herolisk661]

I'm in a similar boat. Root seems like a bit too much for my taste. I'm curious about their new competitive asymmetric game Ahoy. Hopefully you'll cover it!

[@Shelfside]

oh man, sounds sick! Haven't heard of it yet, only ARCS, so can't wait :) -Ashton

[@MichaelBomholt]

lol, I couldn't get into root on the tabletop, it's fine on digital.

[@curumu_yt]

Hey have you tried the new expansion?

[@FredotechLLC]

iPad version better as screen is bigger. Also pc version is great with mouse. Just needs to get expansions out faster to keep up with the game.

[@KMReviews]

I’m like the one guy in my game group who isn’t a fan of Root. I played as woodland alliance and dominated my game.. and still hated it lol. I never feel fully comfortable knowing what everyone else is doing. Like there’s 3 other people doing completely different things and it’s like.. ok he just did like 12 weird things, I guess he can do that? It’s near impossible to bring a new person in and then have fun because everyone else is so familiar with it the new people don’t stand a chance. So I always feel dumb playing it too. I like the “idea” of Root, but I’ve never actually enjoyed my time playing it. Whereas a game like Eclipse or twilight imperium are war games with asymmetry that I can enjoy. I’m also one of the few people who don’t like Scythe because I never feel like I do anything by the time someone else just steam rolls and wins lol.

[@mynameisforrest]

Haha I get that feeling also, especially the Vagabond feels alien to me. I have only played Woodland alliance and the lizards, so I have a good grasp of both. I kinda dig the asymmetry though. I like the depth of the difference between factions. If I play Marquise the Cat, and a mate playes Woodland Alliance, I will understand his gameplay. I think its a fun process to slowly but steady try to learn the different factions. Feels a bit like Starcraft as a total beginner :)

[@KMReviews]

@@mynameisforrest but to fully understand all that means manyyyy gameplays. Many I won’t enjoy lol. A game should be stab on the first few gos lol

[@mynameisforrest]

@@KMReviews I really get what you're saying. Kinda enjoy the process though haha

[@KMReviews]

@@mynameisforrest obviously many people do that’s why it’s so popular with many expansions lol

[@RichardArpin]

@KM Reviews, yeah man, I bought Scythe as I loved the art, and I just don't know if it's worth playing as the tiers of faction and power mat combos makes the game somewhat of a foregone conclusion. Maybe if everyone was equally powered, and the map was randomized. But I'm not sure I want to open up the modular board.

[@republikadugave420]

Root isnt area control ...maybe this is why you hate it lol...

[@Baldricksturnip]

I tried, but I couldn't get into Root. It has a cutesy design, but it didn't pull me in. And the mechanics and the rules left not just me, but the whole playing group scratching their heads where we said no, let's play something else. It really should've been taught by someone proficient in the game. The theme didn't really win me over either. Tried the digital version. It's a bit dry, don't know what to say. It doesn't wow me in any sense. I believe people love it and that it can be really good if not great, but it's not for me.

[@Shelfside]

im trying to get into cuba libre now, so hopefully that is the asymmetric area control for me! Totally with you where Root never pulled me in, but my group just wanted to keep playing aahahahaha -ashton

[@corynardin]

You shouldn’t feel bad about not liking a game. It’s a matter of taste.

[@Davyyjones42]

Playing a touch screen game on switch - LuL Playing a touchscreen game that requires reading lots of small text and UI elements on Switch - OMEGALUL Making this whole video while admitting you only played vs bots and never online - HYPEROMEGALUL

[@jupiterloner999]

Now you made me think again before getting this game 😂

[@Shelfside]

ahaha, well if you like the steep asymmetry, are ok with the tricky learning curve, and have friends that love its politics as much as ya, its a good try for sure! -Ashton

[@jupiterloner999]

@@Shelfside The problem is: I'm solo player😂

[@Shelfside]

@@jupiterloner999 oh man. Yeah can't imagine its worth to buy the physical version, but digital might be fine if you want some novel asymmetry :) -Ashton

[@Fatpie42]

I wasn't that impressed with Root. Then I played multiple games on the Android app. Now I've won the last three games of Root as a board game and I just feel bad for other players, particularly those who are new to the game. I like the app though.

[@AdamJorgensen]

Songs of Conquest?

[@StuffByBez]

Great video! I personally found the speed of teaching in the app to be perfect (it's how I learned to play, during lockdown) but maybe I am more a person who is happy to kinda muddle through whereas you wanted to be competitive and understand everything straight away. With a first game of anything, I will usually try to make moves within a few seconds and if I am struggling I'll either ask for help or just choose whatever (knowing that I am probably going to lose). It sounds like you'd be intensely uncomfortable with that sort of approach?

[@Shelfside]

I just kind of... froze in my first couple of turns and did just do whatever- and the game didn't get too much better on what move felt 'right'. This also just got worse because I was playing against a bunch of veterans ahaha. -Ashton

[@gilbert3579]

I'm with you on this. While I don't outright hate Root, I'm never excited to play it either. Part of it is the art style. I can't stand the cute and cuddly animals. I'm more into the scifi, edgy/blood and gore kind of art style.

[@Shelfside]

Amen! -Ashton

[@TheMightyFlea-0]

Root has always appealed to me, but I don't have the group to play it with. This looks like a great compromise. I still play the hell out of Armello-a digital board game that would probably never work as an actual one-I might check this out. But i never play undocked with my Switch anymore. Is it easy to navigate the screen with a remote?

[@Shelfside]

I completely gave up navigating the game with the remotes- it just felt super inefficient for my preferences -Ashton

[@TheMightyFlea-0]

@@Shelfside That's why I asked. It does appear that the game is set up for a mouse or touch screen. Thanks for the heads up.

[@XenithShadow]

I think the most intresting amello game i had was some killing the king on turn one with some very insane rolls as im going to say the rat. (As if i remember correctly the person with higher corruption get that many extra dice)

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

I got the app, and I _still_ don't get the game.

[@ronsilva7394]

When you realize that it is based on the war in Afghanistan it all makes sense.

[@JaJDoo]

'we never add the vagabond in my group because it sucks

[@Shelfside]

One of the guys in our group refuses to play with it too! Whereas its one of the favorite parts of the game for other members. -Ashton

[@XenithShadow]

Well yeah considering they just win if no one king makes, does make them pretty over powered. Also the fact that preveting them from winning is likely at the cost of winning your self.

[@AAhmou]

​@@XenithShadowYeah policing the vagabond can cost you an entire turn for no point gain. If only there was a consolation prize for breaking some of the vagabond's stuff.

[@binnieb173]

I doubt it, as Root is a game where you need to table talk and you can't do that well on digital.

[@TheSnowman95]

What game is at 16:14? Thanks

[@polyfission2776]

Very good review. I have similar feelings as you do about Root. To me its just a mish mash of clever mechanics. Complexity for the sake of complexity doesnt necessarily make a FUN game. Mechanics should serve a thematic purpose, yet in Root they just feel like abstract minigames. I hate Root, but I can respect the design. If you want to play something VERY similar but actually good, look for the COIN series by GMT.

[@Shelfside]

Hey thanks for this comment! Looks like I've gotta try COIN, rodney told me to check it out too :D -Ashton

[@richardmagel4247]

Now do the expansion!

[@ParlorPunch]

EXACTLY!!!!

[@dcrbdh]

I hate Root. I've played it, all the factions, advanced setup, minor factions, alllll of it. Thinking maybe if I can just get it, then maybe I'll enjoy it. It's a broken mess. Faction A is stupid and overpowered and Faction C is underpowered. It's not a matter of "git gud", it's a matter of well... IF faction x isn't in play and skilled player (a) is off her game, and this die roll goes this way for me and if I get this card, and if the other players don't gain up on me because.... reasons? , then maaaaayyyybe you'll win with the weaker faction. Or.... just play one of the good factions and just win. The community gatekeeps any suggested changes (Cats are perfect and balanced the way they are #&$@*!) . yeah, I hate Root.

[@AAhmou]

Nah the cats seriously need buffing. Like they are the only faction that can get completely kicked out of the board mid-game.

[@dcrbdh]

@@AAhmou Preaching to the choir my friend. What are the designers doing about it? Nothing.

[@Quincy_Morris]

A game has to put balance first. Root clearly doesn’t so it is hard to enjoy.

[@SenseiDecay]

I liked the style but gameplay wasn't really satisfying.

[@icalculi]

i don't like root too, and spirit island.

[@zianawind2970]

I Live Alone in Mountains!! I only have my non player wife.. I Will Not Have ANY Friends to Play!! 😝 So You’re NOT Helpful! I really wanted to know how the game played, the digital version man… I didn’t need to hear you go on and on about playing The BOARD Game! WITH People!!! Grrrrr… Well I’m venting for ALL the lonely players who just really need to know more about the App before purchasing.. this ain’t even about the app! Lol it’s about Nintendo Switch version… that’s how little info there’s available.. then I have to keep hearing about this guys comparisons to The Board game!! NO no Sir! That’s NOT what we neeed! Lol Fine I’ve vented for all the lone wolves out there trying to find an App to play with their 1 friend

[@nin_4_me58]

Do you like Root yet?

[@nin_4_me58]

I guess not

[@siriactuallysara]

Good luck with that laugh out loud😃. I played the app for a week and didn’t like it

[@nahumgardner]

Leder Games seems to know and doesn't want anyone else to suffer and haven't printed copies in nearly a year.

[@becausehimbad]

This aged well.

[@mr.horseshoe2301]

Overhyped game. Don't force yourself to like it just because its popular. My group gave it a go for a few sessions and it was a miserable experience each time.

[@worlddd7777]

It cannot be overhyped, its just very good game for large number of people, and thats why it got popular

[@skunk12]

2/10 reviewers personality.