The PROBLEM with Tigris & Euphrates

This used to be the NUMBER ONE game on boardgamegeek! So what went wrong 25 years after its release? In fact, it's not even top 100 anymore! Ignoring how Tigris and Euphrates is out of print, this game is a masterpiece when it comes to gameplay design and balance in a tabletop board game, as players can place their tiles ANYWHERE, which opens up a crazy complex decision space to outplay each other. Plus the rules are simple with just 2 actions a turn and the goal of getting the most victory points... but you only count your points in the scoring category you're weakest in. It's hard to grasp its strategy, and when friends get together for game night for something relaxing or exciting, Tigris & Euphrates somehow isn't really doing either of those.
Support us on Patreon:
/ shelfside
Our Website!
www.shelfside.co/
Purchase Games We’ve Reviewed! (Paid Link)
amazon.com/shop/shelfside
Shelfside Social Media:
/ shelfsideyt
/ shelfsideyt
/ shelfsideyt
/ discord
Links to our other stuff:
Ashton's Channel: / ashtonwu
Daniel's Channel: / doyduh2
Table of Contents:
#1 on BGG? - (0:00)
What is T&E? (Brief How to Play) - (1:26)
Explaining the Awesomeness - (4:27)
The Problem(s) with Tigris & Euphrates - (9:57)
Ashton’s Personal Score - (18:00)
The following music was used for this media project:
Music: Sneaky Snitch by Kevin MacLeod
Free download: filmmusic.io/song/4384-sneaky...
License (CC BY 4.0): filmmusic.io/standard-license
Artist website: incompetech.com
♪ Biscuit (Prod. by Lukrembo) Link : • (no copyright music) l...
Broke For Free - Something Elated [Creative Commons Music]
/ broke-for-free-somethi...
Age of Empires 2: The Conquerors Track 1
Age of Empires 2: The Conquerors - Track 5
Age of empires 2 Age of Kings Track 1
Age of Empires 2: The Conquerors - Track 8
Eastern Intro - Rome Total War Original Soundtrack - Jeff van Dyck
🎵 Song: 'Scott Buckley - Phoenix' is under a creative commons license.
/ musicbyscottb
🎶 Music promoted by BreakingCopyright:
• [Non Copyrighted Music...
The Mediterranean (Total War: Rome II OST)
#boardgames #tabletop #tabletopgames

[@conormolloy1010]

I love this game but I can totally understand the faults you have with it. I love it because it is so interactive and is almost chess-like. Wars and revolts always feel like game changing by changing the landscape of the board. It truly is a masterpiece in design.

[@TheRASDEL83]

The game is brillian but it is kind of underrated nowadays. IMHO not only T&E deserves a place in the TOP 100, but it should also be permanent in the Top 10 That said, I am completely biased because I love this game but please bear with me 😅 It is a game that will require certain understanding of the rules, not just knowing how to play the game, but understanding how to play it, there is a difference. It shares this with other TOP100 games like Gloomhaven or Scythe for example, both more euro that what they look at first glance and both requiring a certain mindset when playing them . It also shares things with Root and Spirit Island where the experience is better when playing with people that actually understand how to play the game (Faction in Root and Spirit in Spirit Islands respectively). T&E is also not unlike Concordia or Azul that have a vey simple ruleset but hide a pretty interesting depth behind it... A LOT in T&E's case. This is because in T&E every tile you place matters... the moment you place a tile on the board it might only be granting you one point but you are currently building towards a very probable future war, that will radically change the state of the board and probably the game, so every move counts and that simple fact makes this game brilliant. And that board can change a lot by placing a simple tile either by starting a war, revolt or placing destruction tiles and this is not unlike Five Tribes which has the board chaning on every turn and grant a lot of points to players that learn how to look for those opportunities. Destruction tiles mostly miss understood or underused in begginer level games are very situational and yet so powerful, hence you only get two of them. Not only you are able to change the look of the board but you can permanently ocuppy a tile with it... permanently, this can be used offensively or defensively by smart players just like the Red Tribe is sometimes not used to it's full potential by beginner players in Five Tribes who tend to try and kill White/Yellow Tribes men from the opponent instead of getting two tiles in a single move by killing Tribes men off the board. Even though an abstract at heart it has a very strong theme if you know where to look at. Just like Starwars Rebellion where you place heroes strategically and play some cards but end up telling an interesting story or even Pandemic where you play around with color cubes and some cards yet you can also see the story unfold around the world, in T&E when placing civilization tiles you are actually experiencing the rise and fall of ancient civilizations, the fact that red tile, the Temples, are the ones use to resolve revolts is incredibly thematic due to the importance of priests and religion in ancient times. Also the fact that the black leader, the King, works as a "wild" to get every other color, or even that Monuments once created cannot be destroyed and will stand the test of time like they do even to our day. T&E will give you an incredible experience... but... it requires something from you... it requires time and willingness to really learn it, and in todays age when we are running everywhere and are spoiled with so many new games every month giving time to a single game is difficult. More so when T&E goes out of print every now and then. Fortunately and to avoid ending this post in a somber note, this game has recently arrived to BGA and I got to admit it is adapted very well. My suggestion, if you try it, filter the other players at first, you really want to start playing this with people at your level the first couple of games. T&E is not an easy game, so you have to be ok with losing, this game has a learning curve but once you get to understand the puzzle, just like Gloomhaven or Spirit Island, T&E shines and can be an experience that few games can grant now a days. Cheers

[@paulstaker8861]

Sometimes I lose really badly in five tribes that it actually makes me slightly depressed for a day or too. But afterwards I always want to play it again. Just like this game. So much action & possibilities & DRAMA. A rollercoaster experience.

[@Max-pj9km]

Such great thoughts on this great game title.

[@o0LordMuffin0o]

This video does more to point out the problems I have with modern euros and kinda makes me love tigris and euphrates even more!

[@nadavgordon3310]

BGG rank is heavily affected by "cult of the new" trends and could easily fill the top 100 with whatever bling is hot on KS at the moment. Besides, there are SO MANY games these days that all of BGG's top 1000 should still be considered relatively hot, (with T&E being rank 101 now, so ha!). But beyond personal tastes, I think you point at some interesting social trends that beg to be explored: WHY do people today tend to shy away from the more confrontational games of old? Why it has become a boring or exhausting experience to a younger generation of tabletop gamers? I have no answers, just curiosity. My own personal journey with board games leaves me confused even further: When I first heard of BGG (and the great diversity of games), I wanted to find "the ultimate gaming experience" and ended up with buying T&E. And as long as I had just this game, our gaming group played it night after night with great delight. Now my collection is over 50 games and some games (including T&E) rarely see table. So what to make of this? Is T&E really losing steam or am I simply spoiled for choice? I think this is more than mere coincidence. It may relate to changes in the board game business, consumerism, having less time for board gaming, or deeper cultural changes that seek meaning in different gaming experiences that excited older gamers. Again, no answers, just my curiosity. Thanks for a making such a thought provoking video!

[@Shelfside]

Wow, well said! I too, only have a bunch of questions :) -ashton

[@naughtyzoot1]

Love these reviews. So thoughtful and smart. I feel like your voice is really needed in the space. There are a lot of reviewers who do good work but very few seem to be able to really articulate what exactly is going on that makes something work well or not. Keep up the great work!!!

[@Shelfside]

cheers! Hopefully we get to cover Huang (the Y&Y reprint)! -Ashton

[@josephboland7908]

Tigris & Euphrates is intensely interactive, like Chess and Go and unlike many Euros that require players to focus on individual development. One of the best examples of this tendency in Euros is Viticulture, where the mode of interaction is competition for worker placement locations and the primary focus is on individual wine production strategies centered on each player's playerboard. And Tigris & Euphrates is heinously complex, both with respect to state-space and game-tree measures. It probably lies somewhere between Chess and Go on both measures, though I couldn't find calculations of either for the game. In both respects, Tigris & Euphrates is arguably an outlier in the Euro game space. I love Brass Birmingham -- widely regarded as an outstanding "heavy" strategy game, but Tigris & Euphrates seems more complex. While you are mistaken to say that there are no standard openings for Tigris & Euphrates (there are, and for good reason), my sense is that much greater play repetition would be required to become expert at it. For these reasons I agree that Tigris & Euphrates is closer to Go and Chess in its appeal rather than other Euros. But that's a rare compliment! It isn't a game you whip out to play with friends but rather one you seek compatible players for.

[@robertthurman9866]

Doing classic games is a good idea. What games were inspired by this one? A family tree video showing how a game like this led to dozens of others would be interesting.

[@revimfadli4666]

The tree for Puerto Rico and Race for the Galaxy would also be interesting. The latter might even need its own tree due to Wingspan, Everdell, Raising Robots etc being super popular

[@goon7499]

love your channel bro, i hope you guys never stop making content!

[@Shelfside]

cheers man! More stuff always inthe works :D -Ashton

[@andresgalvez]

So important to feel joy when playing your games. I do when playing T and E. There’s a little pride of ownership. A little bit of cool kid factor since it can be hard to get. But there’s also loads of intrigue and smiling and drama to be had in this highly interactive, highly tactical, timeless classic. Hard to recommend someone pay over $100 on the secondary market, but look to trade for it.

[@kosterix123]

yes me too. It sucks me right in. I reckon nowadays $100 is normal, I'd say it's worth it, but then again I bought it new for like $30. The non plastic version.

[@EngMadison]

Modern game design zeitgeist is bland in comparison to these classics. Modern game design is very heads down focused on your own little thing that no one can touch, because that would give you a sad. This Era of game design focused on player interaction which is so much more interesting. My board gaming journey started out with these games, then I moved on to the hotness and Modern euros, only to come back to these fascinating designs. Great video, and glad you came at this from an angle of having played gmthis and appreciated this. But for me, the hobby is transitioning from a focus on interaction, to a bunch of people playing with puzzles sort of with each other. I'll wait for the collective return to interaction.

[@jakubmisak2197]

Exactly my opinion and my taste. I am slowly reducing euro-ish games in my boardgame collection to pieces like Troyes, Hansa Teutonica, Tigris and Euphrates, Caylus. Interaction, ability to affect other people in more ways than just "occupy the spot they wanted to go". Yes, many people like and love complicated and big games and that is ok. But I hate it when they mistake "complex" for "complicated". So many multiplayer solo games that take four tables and four hours and you barely notice your opponents and their tactics and intentions. From modern designs or less euro-ish games I like Brian Boru, Shogun, Mission Red Planet, The Godfather or Root. Sure there are more games where you are constantly present and watching other player's actions and you actually feel you are PLAYING a GAME with FRIENDS... but the trend is really bad. More and more people praise "exercise in complicated".

[@StephenAslett]

Everything you’ve said is correct. I’m surprised that you didn’t hit on the most common mechanical critique of T&E-that you can sometimes be screwed by the tile draw. That aside, yes, it’s a multiplayer, high conflict, thinky abstract. It is a “sometimes” game that is most enjoyable with a group that also understands it, is not prone to AP, and enjoys playing it. Multiplayer chess is the analogy I’d use. Still, it’s never leaving the collection even if I only get to play it once a year at most. Fingers crossed for the T&E tournaments at the retirement home.

[@Shelfside]

heyo, I brought it up a little on the tile draw, but I don't think its too big of a deal because you can bluff or discard tiles, or play a catastrophe tile. A bit of the 'poker face' comes in with tile draws that is pretty cool, but man is the calculating a lot here. Multiplayer chess is a good way to put it! -Ashton

[@spacemonkeyentertainment6413]

I mostly agree. It's a good game, but with little replay value once you actually "get it". Imo this mostly boils down to two things: 1. Lack of overall strategy. What i mean is, that T&E is highly opportunistic. Yes, you have an idea of a turn based on the available tiles (and this adds to the engagement at the table, since you HAVE TO pay attention to others turns and the resulting board states), but this also means that you never finish a game and go "ok, now lets play again, i want to try a different strategy". Games will almost always boil down to players provoking wars and resetting some of the board state (which people usually hate in my experience). 2. Low score: The last point in 1. is kinda mittigated by this, so even if you get a billion points in the last war, it's of one color, which doesn't help you. Since you are always on the lookout for situations you can exploit to get what you need, sometimes those situations simply don't come up the way you would like them. You have the feeling that you overall played a decent game, but then score a 3. 3 POINTS ! I just think that we intuitively like scoring big, not exactly hundreds of points "big", where suddenly the math becomes tedious, but decently high, say in the range of your average Wingspan game, where people also can track their own average and have a good margin to the top to improve. When the ceiling is so low, that reaching double digits is an achievement, imo there is just something in a lot of people's brains that goes "this just doesn't feel right". On the point of storytelling i am torn. Imo there is a lot of emergent storytelling. Yes, it usually involves a big war and how many tiles the players had, but thematically there is a story of an empire that grew too big too fast, got greedy and started a war, they eventually lost, which lead to revolts and further unrest, but imo since i can never name where exactly that happened, it always feels abstract. What about the new empty spaces ? They don't stop existing. How about i could say "region x became independent by simply stopping to pay taxes" or whatever, taking advantage of the war situation. I don't know the regions there, but simply telling me on the board (even if it has no impact) would allow me to immerse myself more. Instead of saying "the kingdom in the west/north/southeast expanded further west" i could say "the soandso kingdom took over region soandso". HOWEVER imo this is a double edged sword - Imo it could be seen as visual clutter, think Wingspan egg colors, where you always have to explain to new players that the colors don't mean anything. Minor point ? Maybe, but then again, so is the lack of region names, no ? I know what i would prefer though.

[@timstimbre9762]

Excellent analysis and underlines exactly what turned me off from this classic design after many plays. And this is with Go being my favorite game. I often make the comparison between T&E and Imperial; in that game you are making investments, taking control of regions only to lose it all to other investors or unfortunate planning. However, in that game there are nations, countries, region names, named sea regions, bonds, map of europe, map of the world, million dollar bills. The game is really abstract in many ways, but because of the afformentioned visual cues it can borrow from the collective historical treasurechest of politics and wars that was shaped by human history.

[@jakubmisak2197]

How about the replay value of chess? :) People are often describing their personal taste feeling like they are describing some objective parameters.

[@stenolebrretzen675]

I have similar issue with Yellow & Yangtze which is more or less the same type of game. Game nights are usually centered around a long game and if there is time left over we play a shorter game afterwards. Y&Y doesn't fit as a showpiece to get the group together because it is so short. And it is so mentally taxing that it doesn't fit as a small game to top off the evening because we are already a little mentally exhausted. It is my favourite "almost-abstract" game though. PS: Keep making good videos like this.

[@chayashida]

Just found your review when I was looking up Yellow & Yangtze/Huang. This is a great game that I don't think I'd buy. I just don't have the friend group that would want to take the time to learn how to play well. I'm not sure that the newer versions fix the problems you describe (although I like the hexagon map better). It would be interesting to see what you and your group thinks of the new games, if you got the chance to play them. Hope you're still having fun playing board games with your friends! Thanks for the video!

[@savethepoppers3837]

Never played Tigris but I've played Yellow & Yangtze about 2 years back. I loved the Y&Y a lot. Can't wait for Huang now. Hope to see a video of it here. Keep up the good work!

[@Shelfside]

heyo thank you! Heard about huang too, will have to take a look :D -Ashton

[@qwertyb18]

comparing Tigris and Euphrates with Go is spot on! It's definitely a cutthroat puzzle game filled with clever calculations. If you like chess or go, this is the game for you!

[@gregwestman]

I'm getting Age of Empire vibes with the background music to this and the Catan Review, great gaming memories.

[@mrp4242]

Those vibes come from the literal AoE soundtrack being used. Needed a ‘wololo’ when he plays a temple tile…..

[@Shelfside]

@@mrp4242 noted, will have a wololo lined up next time

[@cobtyrannon2479]

Its a game that is so hard to play, that it drains you mentally. It makes you exahusted. Usually those games are very good to play over and over again(on different days), but not for a drive by game night.

[@Shelfside]

well said, it just consistently exhausts me but man is it clever! -Ashton

[@skrotnisse8396]

I am a fan of the emergent gameplay which I havent seen that much in modern games (though in other older games like Tikal) Some modern games feel much more like youre following a 'rail', idk

[@o0LordMuffin0o]

Yeah totally, especially the modern engine builders where you set into a strategy and just take two hours to execute it.

[@svachalek]

I’ve never had a chance to play it but I’ve heard of its legend. After watching your walkthrough I can see what the fuss is about, it sounds really interesting. I think I’d get a certain amount of fun out of exploring the possible strategies. But also for me, games that are too abstract don’t have a lot of staying power. I think I’d end up in the same position, respecting it as a game I used to enjoy, and might like to take off the shelf once in a while but not too often.

[@ryankelly369]

If you haven't been able to play Tigris & Euphrates yet, I'd like to formally extend an invitation to you to learn the game. I'll teach it to you personally. Just respond to me here and we can make arrangements.

[@CoreySmall-oq6sg]

Sounds like a problem with the modern state of the hobby, not with the game...

[@MisanthropyAnD123]

I love your choice of music. So nostalgic. Thank you :)☺

[@Shelfside]

haha, great games :) -Ashton

[@meathir4921]

Ultimately, it is a bit of a cold experience. I feel like everyone should have one of these types of games in their collection (for me, it’s War Chest). But I’m surprised Ashton can’t find room for it in his mind, since to me, this sort of game is for when me and some friends want to sit down and really want to just prove our brains are bigger in a more direct way. Unrelated note, I’m jealous you have a physical copy of Quantum.

[@Shelfside]

no longer have a physical copy of of quantum, but I think one of my friends does! I... I want to play TE more, but at the same time, man is it exhausting. Plus lots of my friends prefer conflict in more of a political way, which I totally get -Ashton

[@CareyMcDuff]

Pretty much what I think about the game too. Finally got the chance to play it at GenCon 22. Enjoyed it very much, and would play it happily whenever it is suggested, but I wouldn't seek it out when, as you said, Root, Brass (and Concordia, Inis etc. etc.) are available. Very perceptive review and nice to see an updated take on a classic game!

[@Shelfside]

cheers! Definitely a game worth playing to see what the fuss is about, but agree that it doesn't have the color of newer games -Ashton

[@Boy314]

Great video. Tigris and Euphrates feels like an early version of a Pax game, in particular Pax Renaissance. 2 actions per turn, multiple types of conflict, shared board of pieces where you only truly have control of your own leaders (concessions in Pax Ren). Oh, and incredibly high skill ceiling as well. The only problem is Pax Ren is EXTREMELY difficult to learn and teach.

[@john-qz3fu]

Pax Renaissance is one of two 10/10 games for me. Such a good game. Worth the work, well worth the work.

[@Shelfside]

Hey awesome, need to try it one day :D -Ashton

[@ByeByis]

I can totally understand this sentiment! I unfortunately feel the same way... When showing this game to friends and trying it out for the first time, I couldn't help but feel a little disappointed. In my opinion, I think babylonia is a somewhat more "fun" game. There's the variable starting board which changes strategy game to game, fighting for different spots, collecting asymmetric powers, exciting big scoring moments, and cutting people off from creating a huge network. In the end, it's similar in that it doesn't generate a large amount of tabletalk, but there is a little more "fun" to be had with the dynamics of the game, and intentionally sacrificing your turn just to screw with someone is always fun. I highly suggest you try it out!

[@Shelfside]

cheers, I'll add that to my list! Want to try Y&Y too one day -Ashton

[@Fatpie42]

It feels a bit chess-like to me. A lot of depth and a process you can hope to master, but quite dry and a bit of a headache for those new to the game.

[@Boy314]

What are some of your thoughts on Spirit Island? After playing it, I realized there are 2 types of co-op games that I enjoy: 1 is the SI type where there's simply too much decision space, and if you want to quarterback, you better be good at playing an already hard game, multi-handed (some people can do it, but only real diehard fans of the game). The other would be limited communication co-op games like The Crew. Any other co-op board game I feel like you could just take over and play the entire thing multi handed solo.

[@Shelfside]

I've only played it once, I think Daniel has played it twice. It didn't particularly grip me too hard, but can see the appeal! The Crew is fun but only plaedy on BGA. I think for coops, I'm really looking for some unique way to prevent QBing, or a really cool story/mystery to get immersed into. -Ashton

[@Shelfside]

Actually I’ve lost count at this point, I think I’ve played it 5 times now, hella good experience -Daniel

[@OlegKlishinArt]

I think Yellow & Yangtze is a perfect modernization of the formula. It's more approachable and intuitive, tho less dramatic during wars. I like T&E, but love Y&Y. Sadly, haven't met a lot of people liking these games.

[@Shelfside]

dang, time to try it! Some initial reviews I read on it kind of blew it off, but my curiosity has been really piqued again -Ashton

[@tonydesmet7389]

Thank you for this great review! It surprises me though that this is a game you can talk so enthusiastic about and you share so many interesting insights about, and still you only find it merely 'good'. That somehow feels contradictive.

[@Shelfside]

I really appreciate the game, but I'm trying to separate my feelings of respect versus my actual enjoyment! Like how we have our recommender vs. personal scores -Ashton

[@ajeba98]

I'm curious what you think of Cyclades.

[@jeffersonwu952]

Well reviewed! Maybe Fantasy Flight can come out with new version and bring it up to speed with modern expectation.

[@Shelfside]

cheers! On the lookout to play huang when it comes out! -Ashton

[@foyoGames]

I just got a used copy ...all pcs are there

[@bryanep]

I literally just played this with a new game group a couple weeks ago. It kind of fell flat. I totally feel what your saying about this game. I use to LOVE this game 10 years ago and now there are games that are easier to teach I rather play . Or harder to learn games that feel so much more rewarding than playing this game. Side note I remember how much I hate king making while playing this lol

[@Shelfside]

Cheers for sharing! Kingmaking is definitely a problem for newer groups, though it can happen at any level with enough memorization skill haha.Still gonna hold onto this game, but man it's a tough sell to my groups -Ashton

[@puffin5864]

Good video 👍

[@iphatbass]

I would love to try this game, it looks fun, but like you said, it's forever out of print

[@Shelfside]

its on boardgamearena to try! Hopefully they do reprint it though -Ashton

[@bwah9481]

Have you tried the sequel of this game, Yellow & Yangtze? I also own the card game spin off of T&E... it's rather interesting.

[@Ludician]

Well articulated.

[@Shelfside]

cheers! -Ashton

[@sebp2295]

Still waiting for that spirit island review from you guys. Now I know you played it so waiting even more...

[@Shelfside]

It's coming, but no idea when! -Ashton

[@PsychicLord]

I have the original Tigris & Euphrates with I purchased in 1997, which I have not played for over 20 years. I do not remember the double-sided board, so I presume that the rules have changed somewhat. I remember that my friends and I enjoyed the game and it was played regularly. Maybe it is not so much of a problem, but an evolution of expectation. When I play games that were designed 25 years prior to T&E, they were very different, and probably todays game hobbyists would find then unchallenging, predicable, and boring in some ways.... with the majority scoring less than 7 on BGG. I would be interesting in seeing you review a pre-80's game and seeing if this holds true for you.

[@Shelfside]

Well said! Yeah, I didn't particularly want to review this because there's so many different versions (our also has some more plastic buildings that aren't monuments that I haven't even gotten close to trying). Would be down to try again, but also want to try Y&Y ahaha. The problem of my expectations :) -Ashton

[@derek_davidson]

Always with the Age of Empires music 👌

[@Shelfside]

wololololo

[@Zombie8tHeart]

Would love an El grande review! It's another every green game that is always out of print lol

[@thomgizziz]

Evergreen

[@Shelfside]

Will take a look hopefully soon :) -Ashton

[@Steve_Mazza]

It's an interesting video, with some really good thoughts and reflections. I like the part at the end where you imagined the sunny cafe table. I do agree that T&E can be enjoyed that way. However, I don't think chess and go and other abstract games are fairly called "lifestyle games". They have a classic appeal to millions - billions - of people around the world, across centuries. The comparison with the newer, higher-ranked games shows the T&E is out of step with current trends ... But I think this mostly makes the modern game industry look bad in comparison. Endless minis, cards, factions, rules, giant boards, *an open laptop* - why are these needed? It's all too fiddly! There are certainly large groups of players that are passionate about games like Root, Scythe, and Gloomhaven, but I think there are also very large groups that dislike them. Maybe there is a way to "flesh out" T&E's core mechanics with some additional "theme" without losing too much of its simplicity. I wonder if you have tried any of Knizia's more recent tile-laying games, such as Yellow & Yangtze or Babylonia? Or even the older ones, like Samurai or Through the Desert?

[@MyFunnyVids888]

So lil tidbit you said "these arent cons just the consequences of being able to put tiles anywhere" and it tickled me. Other than that I've play yellow & yangtze in which is a min-max opportunity game to me. I say an opportunity game cuz sometimes one player can just be put in the corner and not have an overall good time but still end up winning without feeling the satisfaction of playing a good game. Im not against high conflict games but i think games need a buildup period before the conflict arrives whether its a war game or otherwise in order to be more open to newcomers. Also i know you guys arent probably into axis n allies but i think you should give it a shot. I'd recommend the 42 second edition

[@Spoutnicks]

I'm going to comment my appreciation on using Age of Empires 2 music every single time you put it in a video!

[@Shelfside]

ohhhh there's more coming :D -Ashton

[@mohammeda.al-hasani8784]

What about Yellow & Yangtze

[@Shelfside]

time to check it out one day -Ashton

[@bwah9481]

lol the age of empires music

[@Baldricksturnip]

I do love this game. But I do feel a burnout after one game. I was lucky to find it at a fair price years ago, second hand, but I have no complaints since I mostly buy used games. Now when I check the prices of it, it's crazy expensive.

[@paulstaker8861]

This game is the real 1-hour 4x game everyone wanted to make for decades now. Knizzia is a god.

[@WarIsNoMoreCold]

Is this soundtrack from Age of Empires?

[@thekrazykane2649]

I have never owned this game, I’ll probably end up owning a copy eventually though😂

[@Shelfside]

hopefully you can get it not at the current prices :D -Ashton

[@thekrazykane2649]

I hope so lol, eventually it’ll decrease in price right? 🤪

[@fedorilitchev5092]

I prefer Samurai in this genre - more manageable

[@jupiterloner999]

Just too abstract and brain burning for me, since 8 years ago... 😅

[@john-qz3fu]

Lewy body?

[@andychen5786]

AoE music nice

[@stevensum2011]

It's like chess....

[@michaelmueller260]

zzzzzzzzz

[@toddkauk6099]

The problem is it’s OOP…that’s the only problem.

[@navnnavn1226]

Disagree with the points, but I like your honesty

[@pm71241]

Gee... almost 12 minutes in to get to the point and then it's just a "this is not modern anymore " .... Thank God we can play non "modern" games.

[@kosterix123]

so you dislike games without an IP. Fine. You dislike Euro games. Fine. But claiming that there is no talking in T&E is absurd. Maybe you just played it once or twice, and you have read some people with opinions on the game. It doesn't really come across that you understand the game. Every game is wildly different. There can be no monuments. There can be six monuments. The only title that comes to mind would be Hansa Teutonica. Same interaction intensity. You complain about wars, but look when you're adding tile after tile eventually you do bump up into someone else's kingdom right. Oh and T&E not only has hidden information (much less than you claim it to be) it also has random tile draw from the bag (random but you know the initial frequencies). I think it has exactly the right ingredients to feed the monster called group dynamic a little different every session. You can't compare it to strict 2-player full information games, why would you. I'm not planning on selling my copy, like, any day soon. Obviously I have the wooden version that one day before you were born was standard practice. We didn't use much plastic back then. Tigris is just great fun every now and then.