THE DUSKMOURN cEDH SET REVIEW

[@jacob510]

Cam nerding out about coasters is just amazing to watch

[@skyguytomas9615]

Fr video highlight.

[@Kevin-ef9rz]

Second that

[@HazardManTV]

Ah. Rollercoasters. This makes a lot more sense after watching lol

[@gallowshumor1784]

that was a highlight

[@Trogdorbad]

Without context, I can't wait to find out if you mean roller or drink

[@spikesir1104]

The best part about this was Cam going through coaster manufacturing and different forms of track 😂 congrats to the coaster enthusiasts you get a tangent as a little treat.

[@CHoustonify]

I absolutely love seeing the disparity between these boys talking about things they know well, like CEDH and (apparently??) roller coasters, and things they don't know well, like most other things. It's either 100 percent special interest level comprehensive knowledge or they know nothing, and that's beautiful.

[@Schmino]

Demonic Counsel seems like a reference to movie The Devil’s Advocate. Loved the roller coaster talk and Tyler’s total and unfiltered uninterest. Lmao

[@careystringer4104]

Came to say this!

[@cobaltbeau]

One weird thing about come back wrong vs gilded drake: you control the trigger to sacrifice the drake, so *you're* the one who has to sacrifice it. If you don't control it when the trigger resolves, it doesn't get sacrificed, because *you* can't sacrifice it.

[@Magidex]

Because you can never sacrifice permanents you don't control.

[@Temzilla2]

Came to the comments to post this. A quote from rule 701.17a "A player can’t sacrifice something that isn’t a permanent, or something that’s a permanent they don’t control."

[@shryke1013]

Jesus. I'm listening while sorting cards, and out of the blue you guys start talking about some of my favorite coasters. Unexpected pop.

[@Flip4Crypt]

Huge pop

[@Wells13555]

When the words "Beetlejuice 2 review" faded in I laughed so hard I snorted

[@RainbowRandolf]

The funny thing being he's complaining mostly about Beetlejuice 2 being...too much like Beetlejuice.

[@mikeheilman6122]

Can confirm, I live 30 minutes from Hershey and my Dad still to this day talks about how bad Sidewinder hurt when he rode it back in the 90s.

[@crossr1984]

You guys are almost always the first ones I watch to get a reading on new cards. And hey, even if whiff on a card or two, I definitely always have a good time.

[@lazarlazarteam1033]

theres a 6 mana instant speed intuition line with the master of board. You find Broodlord, Necromancy, and Overeager Apprentice, they give you broodlord, so you escape necroymancy on appretice, sac it for 3 black and discard broodlord, then escape neceomancy on broodlord and find sacrifice, then sacrifice the broodlord, escape necromancy once more to get saw in half, grab entomb and silence, silence and then entomb abdel adrian. Escape necromancy on adrian, produce infinite mana, end the loop recuring broodlord, finding borne, use borne to be able to cast your commander, mill your deck and animate dead thassa’s.

[@thedoctor1471]

"you just need twelve cards in the grave" isn't the lowest requirement tho.

[@dbzdragon7155]

I have been watching you guys for awhile and as time has passed you are the first KZbin group that I would want to sit down and play a game with.

[@arkknight92]

Same, best mtg channel on KZbin easy!

[@Lorry_Draws]

​@@arkknight92 eeeaasily, so chill, no bs

[@Paul-ls6zv]

They are just as awesome in person! Loved playing with you gents at Richmond!

[@RyeGuy4821]

Something i would like to mention regarding Walk-in Closet//Forgotten Cellar and room abilities: Although unlocking a door does not use the stack, most of them feature a triggered ability upon unlocking which i think still gives priority to opponents for answers (refer to morphs and face-up triggers). in my opinion being a triggered ability dodges most counters, but your opponent still knows the moment you will try the forgotten cellar turn

[@KelzBelzGG]

This is what I came to say as well.

[@therealax6]

Yeah, Forgotten Cellar in particular has a trigger that enables the effect. (On the other hand, since it's _the trigger_ enabling the effect, removing the enchantment doesn't cancel it!)

[@paulieWalnuts91]

you guys can't miss on the content you put out. love seeing tyler on the pod. keep it up booyyysss

[@spartica7720]

Hearing about Hershey Park in a CEDH video is such a crazy feeling, sidewinder does hurt. Love this channel.

[@bigolbruhby8542]

I kept expecting it to transition into a bit but Cam is just really into roller-coasters

[@matticus_p626]

Surprised untimely malfunction wasnt mentioned. 2 mana to either be another deflecting swat or pop an artifact is pretty solid. The third effect will rarely come up tbf, but I'm testing it in Ob Nixilis in place of Abrade

[@jasonclarkson3246]

Slicer would love Fear of Missing Out. You already do a lot of discarding in mono red. Giving slicer a constant extra combat is CRAZY.

[@KrayZieTyler]

As a person who played all the Rollercoaster Tycoon games on release, I appreciated that conversation

[@jarredjenkins8054]

Demonic counsel Fetchland, tutor, counterspell, Plus maybe a lotus or creature is about what a normal grixis pile has in the grave by turn 4 or so Any deck that intentionally fills the grave or sacrifices permanents can be online earlier. Post ad naseaum or breach it's basically Demonic tutor. If we ever get a good cheap demon this is a five star card.

[@FirewynnTV]

FOR RED there is a "collector booster only" card that is decent. Gleeful arsonist "Whenever a n opponent casts a noncreature spell, Gleeful Arsonist deals damage equal to its power to that player. Undying (When this creature dies, if it had no +1/+1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a +1/+1 counter on it.)" I am making a Marina (attempting at least) and it seems she can make the Green Yawgmoth will card... work everyturn, since she can lock it and unlock it.

[@egoish6762]

Unless you specifically care about 1 damage it's worse than a thunder junction uncommon Magebane Lizard.

[@baconsir1159]

@@egoish6762 Being undying and 1-sided could be relevant, plus it gets better after returning to the field.

[@tannerelliott25]

I have been debating trying to find room in my blood pod deck for this because it goes well with pod and evolution, but I don't know if it is too cutesy.

[@christianlei2519]

Its very meh unfortunately. Possibly puts pressure on a naus line or brain freeze but its not a guaranteed stop.

[@VvVLuffyM2]

I'm testing it in my ob deck

[@slimeproject2868]

Seeing you talk about the potential of a card to combat certain stax pieces seems interesting when I watch your gameplay and rarely see those mentioned stax pieces in play such as rule of law.

[@drummerboy0511]

I know everyone's excited about the coasters, but...can I say it was a real treat to hear Cam shout out CHVRCHES?

[@commenter1430]

Thank you for putting this out before prerelease!!!

[@copernicusxx]

Imagine if Crypt, Dockside, Nadu and Jeweled Lotus were banned, wouldn't that be weird?

[@carlospadilla7247]

Guess dispatch is back to being bad....

[@liammurray4652]

Master of Keys and the new Secret Arcade room lets you cast any non land permanent in your graveyard. Lets you breach/led/freeze in that deck. Works for the same reason lier and adventure cards works!

[@RelicSeeker]

I do think Withering Torment could see some play in more midrange Rakdos/Mono black decks as Rule of Law tech, since bc it’s an instant, you can demonic tutor for it, pass turn, and cast it right before your turn, freeing you up to do what you need on your turn, instead of having to first spend the 2 for the sorcery, with a higher chance to get countered, since no one has likely cast their one spell yet on your turn

[@ameliaburton5313]

Another upside for Fear of Missing Out is that it is the cheapest non-human Kiki-Jiki dance partner, meaning it can be found with Invasion of Ikoria. Village Bell-Ringer/Combat Celebrant/Hyrax Tower Scout all being untutorable with Invasion has made those cards worse for the Kiki decks that aren't doing the pod lines (which is where those cards are also unplayable because Felidar exists)

[@samharrison5687]

Yo cam really knows his stuff about roller coasters, that was awesome to see 😂

[@Alikaakui808]

Thank you for getting this video out before release so I know what to pre-order ❤ Side note- there’s another 2CMC creature that combos with Kikijiki but it’s blue and won’t risk decking yourself

[@oscarperezcame]

it`s hilarious how Cam gets amazingly nerdy with rollercoasters hahaha

[@Vrir16]

I'd love your guys take on some of the newer red cards that are either redirect or counter abilities on them. I think that's one of the things red is getting from outside of it's color identity that is interesting.

[@zacharymccutcheon8607]

11:37, the new owner would not have to sacrifice the drake. You control the sacrifice effect (Come back wrong) and you can not sacrifice things you don't control.

[@Quarter_Turn]

I loved the roller coaster tangent. Really interesting actually!

[@zozeph1212]

The second I saw there were rollercoasters, I knew cam would be all in on this set, especially after their video on secret lairs sets they want!

[@Dev.L]

Damn. I love Cam nerding out about roller coasters. I think you're joke was hilarious and I myself like Bolliger & Maybillard.

[@TheSpawnRoom]

41:00 The Master of Keys combined with the background looks so cool!

[@adrianmetz3013]

It doesnt look like anyone has mentioned it but mdfcs can be manifested face down and turned face up if they are a creature as normal. Face-down / Face-up is different from Front Side / Back side, the former deals specifically with manifesting, cloaking, ect, and the latter deals with MDFCs and transformed permanents. It is important to note that cards like Ixidron that can turn things face down can't turn MDFCs face down, but manifesting is different as it is entering from a different zone

[@njbroug10635]

Marvin is also a 2 colorless second copy of Ranger Captain... A second Kiki when someone responds to your first copying of Bellringer... A second Dauthi... A second BoP... Second Mastermind... Second Mother of Runes... And it can be all of them at once.

[@DraXCore]

One thing they didn't touch on for unwanted remake is that if someone tutors to the top of their deck before they draw you can use it on that player to have them "get rid of" the card

[@timkoHRMNY]

curious to know what y'all think about the land cycle. They seem pretty decent in 2-3 color decks, but unplayable in 4+. Also the aside from Cam at 25:30 on rollercoasters was 10/10. We need a bonus podcast on rollercoasters please...

[@CHoustonify]

I'm not any of these guys, but my instinct is that land bases are so stacked right now that it takes a LOT for any lands to penetrate, and Duskmourn doesn't get there. Even the surveil lands, which are seeing play all the way back to Legacy, are only getting added to a handful of CEDH decks.

[@boikman]

Another fairly big thing I think you guys missed on Fear of Missing Out is that it's the only Kiki combo piece that's tutorable with Imp Rec in mono-Red. I've been playing with Kiki as my commander for a few months now and although theres only like 3 of us, FOMO looks pretty sick on paper, I'm excited to try it out.

[@KohrnTucsin]

Unwanted remake: think of it as an unwanted remake of "Saw in half" cheaper and slightly worse, but it works as removal sometimes!

[@jrclarke93]

Hakim, Loreweaver + Treachery + claws of gix goes infinite for mana. The catch is you can only do it in your upkeep which is fine. You just need either emergence zone/borne upon a wind so you can cast master of keys to go for a win

[@Trogdorbad]

I will say, re: Hauntwoods Shrieker, it seems like some of the stuff this set gave to facedown might find a home in the cEDH Kadena deck. Or maybe I'm just being hopeful, Kadena's super fun and I was ecstatic when I heard she did super well at a cedh tournament - I think there's some interesting stuff you could do with her with Split Second, since you can still pay morph costs/flip manifests under Split Second

[@michaelpsmith3861]

if you have ashnod's altar, you can make the balloon guy go infinite with every creature kiki-jiki can, assuming you can activate it in the first place. it also works with kiki-reflection (example line with pestermite) dupe pestermite, sac duped pestermite for 2 colorless, spend both colorless and make two pestermites, sac one for 2 colorless, repeat

[@ChristopherDennis89]

Marvin + Stella Lee = Double Win potential. I saw a list that utilizes this card, it seemed interesting. One card I feel that escaped viewing was "Untimely Malfunction: 1R-Instant Choose one Destroy target artifact, Change the target of target spell or ability with a single target, One or two target creatures can't block this turn." Really the only good part of that is the misdirection choice, but I can see it being quite useful and since its cheap to cast can easily redirect a counter.

[@dilandoesitbetter9026]

Tyler my girlfriend and I watched beetlejuice 2 opening weekend and it was sooooooo bad, hearing you talk about how bad it was made my day.

[@Kelthulu89]

I've been wanting a new deck and Master of Keys was the one I got excited for. I can't wait to see Tyler's Keys list and give it a shot.

[@signisakanades1329]

So the best I got for Mater of Keys: Arenson's Aura or Teferi's Care + Treachery can gain you mana. (Treach your own Master for safety, sac it to Aura/Care, targeting itself. You just need lands that make 7 or more mana somehow) If you do that loop, Chronic Flooding being on one of those lands gives you the three cards to rebuy. Attunement is some amount of Draw/Discard. Drowned Secrets is similar in small mill. Is it CEDH? Nope, but I think it might be the best you have for a 'consistent' combo out of him.

[@rehberg.]

Something I like about unwanted remake is that it can also disrupt a top deck tutor. Granted, TDTs are going to see much least play without mana crypt but I like the idea that it can remove a creature and disrupt a vampiric tutor.

[@baeruttgaming4779]

As a Sythis player, Master of Keys seems like a stax deck. You T2 stax piece, slowly build the board and then use Master of Keys + Escape to loop enchantments. Theres a lot of cards in Wilds of Eldraine that care about enchantments hitting the yard. In addition, Bargain in Master of Keys seems well supported. I will say, there is a SINGULAR creature that sacrifices enchantments for free, so that + Enchantments that mill can in theory go infinite

[@Gabe57644]

Also dress down every turn

[@Emzy2217]

I’ll say, it’s surprising how often Delirium is met in turbo decks. Tested it in Krark/Si and I always meet it in the first 2-3 turns. Cracked card.

[@bricknolty5478]

This feels like the perfect EDH set. TONS of cool toys for Casual pods, and CEDH really only gets some niche cards for low Tier decks. PS I'm eagerly awaiting your post-B&R podcast lol

[@nickthompson9182]

Keeper of keys can also recycle dress down so you can be immune to some stax effects when you want to be

[@taylorbentley5945]

I think you all overlooked “Untimely Malfunction” non blue red decks I feel will definitely run that card, with the kinda counter spell and artifact removal on a 2 drop instant is really good

[@WolfWhoKeeps]

Love the episode! One thing to add about Marvin is that it could potentially be a great Tayam addition

[@BR4IN1N4J4R]

Gonna say this, I have a soft spot for Squeaky Jiki. Yes, it's "Kiki-Jiki at Home," but a Boros Kiki style deck where you can kinda go down the Kiki lines (less efficiently admittedly) seems like a wild ride

[@EthanHunt-p1t]

I think raffine is the deck for demonic counsel because you can always find your razaketh and then discard it with raffine’s ability, and delirium is pretty easy to get on

[@hunterstrong3318]

Note: unlocking room is special action but the triggers of unlocking a room do use the stack and can be stifled

[@DrukenReaps]

On the color pie talk a bit around Withering Torment. I think the removal of enchantments with enchantments being so much more of a thing is absolutely a must. At least in casual my blacks, reds, rakdos, and to a degree blue because I don't load up on counterspells all lose to various enchantments. The only option for awhile was 7 drops out of colorless xD The meteor golems and pals. I also kinda feel like anything colorless can do should be allowed in every color... Just flavor it right. There are foundational aspects required to play the game. Those shouldn't be limited to certain colors imo. Though their consistency or other aspects of them should be tweaked based on the color using it.

[@therealax6]

If you're looking for colorless options, Introduction to Annihilation exists. Don't get me wrong, it's a _bad_ card, but if you just _need_ to destroy anything in colors that can't, it's an option if you need a cheaper card.

[@jbs6614]

interesting to note with Graveyard loops, Unwanted Remake can be a wincon to mill yourself or mill opponents given that they all have creatures.

[@rel1ik347]

So after many hours of reading rules stuff... im pretty certain Forgotten Cellar doesn't work the way you stated. Yes, unlocking the room is a special action that can't be responded to, but if unlocking the room leads to a triggered ability happening (like Forgotten Cellar's "When you unlock this door" ability), that triggered ability still goes on the stack. If we look at some of the rooms that straight up have passive effects that don't trigger when the room is unlocked, then those are in essence uninteractable abilities. For example Dazzling Theater//Prop Room. Neither side states "when this gets unlocked". They're just continuous (static) effects, so the moment you unlock them they're active.

[@kelm102]

I don't know a damn thing about roller coasters, but as soon as Cam started talking about Vekoma coasters being headbangers that beat you up when you ride them, I immediately knew what he was talking about. The Six Flag in St. Louis, my local Six Flags, has a version of the Ninja made by Arrow and Vekoma. It's not like the one at Magic Mountain, which is apparently a suspended swinging coaster. Every single person that's been on our version of the Ninja says they have a headache and/or get beat up while they're on it.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

I’ve heard Ninja is horrible but I haven’t been yet. I need to get out there soon!

[@Jesterofyugi]

NGL Cam legit just taught me what FOMO is. Like I've been hearing that for a bit now, and was like, "Oh well, I have no idea what that abbreviation means. Like right after Cam said the name, I was like, "Oh snap."

[@Yukamii]

Unwanted remake can also help you in a deck to grave a creture so you can play it from ur grave again like play a dockside kill it with this then uwb it back for x mana. Idk i think it has some good uses for being 1 mana its defintly good for shenannigains

[@Bcdeano]

Wild that not 10 minutes in dockside is mentioned, followed shortly by Dargo and Korvold (two decks hurt by the bans). Such format warping cards gone from the meta (for better or worse depending on your opinion). Interesting to see how the meta develops going forward. Probably in for a Dimir winter ahead.

[@Yukamii]

Demonic council can grab a changling to? So it can go in yuriko decks or into decks that care about creature types right?

[@aaronwindham6065]

Hey does that mean that rooms are fairly strong for say yuriko who really wants high mana permanence in your deck yet the ability to cast them for cheap

[@Sekraiii]

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet but Marvin + Sakashima (or any other clone that keeps it's name) will cause an interesting (and as far as I know) still not fully decided rules interaction where you Might get Infinite copies of the same activated ability on Marvin and your clone not named Marvin. Will this have any real effect? Probably not but hey there might be some ability that says "activate only once each turn" that you can break if this actually turns out to be the way it works!

[@KemperKeys]

I've learned more about Rollercoasters than cEDH in this video, and that's absolutely why I love Play to Win.

[@anstapa6118]

Fellow CHVRCHES fan here. Loved the callout from Dylan!

[@dennishambleton2134]

Come back wrong can work with saw in half for extra triggers. Just have to cast comeback wrong first.

[@spitfiremase]

Marvin Does cute stuff with haste for random commanders with activated abilities as well. 2nd yisan (where it would also be a dork, and maybe a quirion ranger)? 2nd Stella gives her 'haste' and also makes winning a stack fight with her impossible these decks are not like top tier top 3 decks, but they exist and marvin could find a home

[@eglacialis6782]

Walk in closet is not going in Gitrog. The decks main wincon is looping cards through your graveyard, which can not be done through the exile effect of this or yawgmoth's.

[@shazaaaaaam]

amazing knowing everything about roller coasters but not a ton of words in the english language 😂 i love this pod

[@anthonyfodera7978]

The Slander of Hercules. That RC will forever be goated. Bunch of Hydra the revenge lovers in this podcast.

[@FullFatMayo1]

Winota might want Fear of Missing Out but delirium is just so unlikely to get reliably. I will probably test it but not looking good. There was also talk about the Wandering Rescuer in Winota which has massively split the discord between "best card in ages" to "unplayable".

[@bskelto]

One thing missed about come back wrong, which I don’t think would boost the rating a ton, is that it can steal commanders

[@HazardManTV]

Holding Priority Podcast over a 3 hour review of this set. I think we will see a lot of cards enter the meta after their review tbh. Maybe I'm just hoping it's true, but they made a lot of good points on some cards for why they should work (Like Unidentified Hovership) I do agree white had the weakest showing of this set in both the main and commander set. And IMO the commander specific cards weren't great for CEDH outside of one.

[@rhettnorman8451]

sooooo for unwatned remake my best argument for it is. enemy vamp,worldly,mystical,.... tutors and you unwatned remake one of their creatures and then they have to manifest it or put it in grave instead of being able to play it

[@rhettnorman8451]

Also, for hitting the worldly tutor targets if the creature has an ETB effect, flipping it doesn't cause the ETB to work

[@James-yk5ge]

Walk in closet/forgotten cellar sounds completely insane in flubs. Lets you fix even numbered hands too

[@shayneweyker]

Martyr's Cause is a creature sac outlet that can work with Master of Keys.

[@The_Indubitabler]

I'm surprised they didn't talk about Enduring Vitality. That card is an instant-add for Kinnan and I think a very strong choice for Sisay, too

[@mkesavagel1912]

For unwanted remake in a star deck you could use it on a collector ouphe feed underworld and maybe get another creature I could see it being useful it being able to remove your own stax pieces to go over

[@SC2Anski]

Extremely triggered about the rollercoaster track rant because in my go-to amusement park there is a old school rollercoster that is made of wood and looks just like the one in the art. LMAO Great episode. Love you guys.

[@arziel9830]

you can use intuition as one card combo in master of keys. Get animate dead+abdel+cabal therapy then escape animate dead to infinite mana and put master of key into command zone. Mill the whole deck and return thassa oracle.

[@definitelynotkevin_]

Not a Cedh player, love my janky decks too much, but been loving the videos. Could unwanted remake be used on your own creature? Get to generate a leaves the battlefield trigger and then look at your top two cards and manifest dread. Anything with LTB triggers see Cedh play? I'm thinking it might see play in aristocrat's style decks.

[@The_Metalcrafter]

I think the master of keys would be a great esper control that’s gameplay is to make infinite mana. I’m excited to put something together!

[@zd-1249]

Master of Keys does seem neat as a high power casual deck. Surely being able to Necromancy at instant speed for a Thoracle is worth something right?

[@dannyriat9859]

Master of keys and everything in the grave is enchantments is cool. Cards that make other cards enchantments so that when you Self mill with infinite mana, you can get Thoracle out without using animate dead. Altar of dementia with enchantment creatures?

[@rileycoon7838]

That Hellraiser t-shirt is so damn cool, I want!

[@jonwaters3401]

TBF, while the Jolly Balloon man is a activated, you can still have Delney be useful with felidar guardian and bell ringer and such?

[@DraXCore]

They also didn't mention that the 4 mana Valgavoth will trigger his own ability if an opponent pays the ward cost. which is just a nice little extra draw before its probable death

[@altered_beast_of_burden]

Marvin slaps in Tayam. He's a Wall of Roots, mana dork, or Ranger Captain when you need it among many others

[@DMGtubez]

Come back wrong if im reading correctly can take commanders as well as theres no state based check to rezone the commander which is pretty good

[@agarcn6704]

I am really excited for Kaito in Yuriko. Card seems like it does everything that the deck wants.

[@P3rvenc]

Unlocking a door is a special action and can't be responded, but when you unlock a door a trigger can go on stack ( in case of the forgotten cellar for example), the trigger be responded to.

[@יעקבהס-ת6ר]

That do you think about the bloon man in sisay? It can filter mana by copying silvala or bloom tender, and it's a chip legend that is two colours for sisay

[@superaxel124]

I’m really excited about running Walk-In Closet in Tatyova/Aesi ❤

[@thomaswren8508]

Because the rooms create a triggered ability when you unlock them they can be stifled wich is not really a thing people do but it exists