White Cards Used To SUCK

[@ctomsky]

Vince I made this for you! twitter.com/TotesMcGoatsMTG/status/1199830574430654464/photo/1

[@IDJEGOI]

I love this... Print it!!!

[@nathanbennett2432]

Omg my d&t wants this

[@crypticmrchimes]

I don’t care if they make these into two cards Wizards MAKE THIS A THING!!!!

[@dovakinsteve9517]

I’d play it

[@Mewtwoisabeast]

i'd buy that for a dollar

[@KC_Enthusiast]

WotC: "white is supposed to have the best removal! Thats why it can't draw cards, its answers are too good." Also WotC: *gives white overcosted sorcery single-target removal spells, no more 4 mana wraths, gives every other color more threats than can be reasonably removed* Also WotC: "why is white so bad now?"

[@abj136]

and fragile removal. Enchantments can be undone.

[@selkokieli843]

a take: answers need to be weaker than threats or games skew towards stagnation. having answers as identity is by this definition weaker. as a sidenote, weaker answers also seem to be the trend now, for limited in particular. luckily white has other identities too.

[@tomjackal5708]

@Lamp Boi disagree. path and trophy do similar things, trophy hits a wider variety of things, but costs more mana (and is more colors). push is better on turn 1, hitting mana creatures, but there's a lot of things it _doesn't_ kill. it's just a sliding scale where path is worse and push is better at the start of the game and path is better and push is worse the longer the game goes on

[@altromonte15]

and it's not even true: the best removal is in blue, with 0 mana counterspells and cyclonic rift. Counterspells are like removal, the result is the same, but instead of only permanents they can hit everything and stop ETB.

[@selkokieli843]

@@altromonte15 Counterspells can be powerful at stopping threats, especially in older formats. However, they either require you to hold up some of your mana while not advancing your game as efficiently, or lose card advantage (pitch counters like fow etc. ) Force is often sided out in midrangy mirror matches. White's style allows fully proactive game while having broad or efficient answers at it's diaposal.

[@Isolanporzellator]

WotC in a year: "After listening to feedback from our playerbase, we decided to remove white because nobody needs it anyways. To replace it, we're now printing colorless Eldrazi as 20% of every set because people loved those. Here's our brand new spoiler for the next set: Emrakul, the Thought-Knot Smasher."

[@kaseybennett7415]

Eldrazi Temple, Tomb of MTG Lands you control are wastes in addition to their other types.

[@latrodectusmactans7592]

They should just replace White with a new color called Azorius. The color of Supreme Verdict, big Teferi, little Teferi, Deputy of Detention, Detention Sphere, Lavinia, basically all the actually good White cards from the past seven years.

[@kaseybennett7415]

@@latrodectusmactans7592 Knight of autumn sees play...

[@xenophile4275]

Please stop, I can only get so erect.....

[@Isolanporzellator]

@@xenophile4275 Come on - you know you want it.

[@Ratheri]

Me, everytime I look at a white card: Oh, that's really fucking awesome! *looks at CMC* Yeah, nevermind.

[@Shade7x]

Honestly, if they changed nothing but taking 1 off the mana costs, white could be a lot more viable. A solid angel should be 4. A solid knight should be 2.

[@seow5872]

Well the old "if your opponent controls more of something, then you do something" mechanic that appeared on land tax, knight of the white orchid, weathered wayfarer and oreskos explorer seems like the perfect way to make white stronger while keeping it in flavour since white has been lacking

[@tonysmith9905]

Except none of those cards were particularly strong except for land tax and only because it was such a minimal investment. I would agree drawing cards equal to difference if your opponent has more is a good idea, since white loves having decks that dump its hand quickly, but using this "equalization" method in other areas? Nope, not good at all, unless they're super pushed.

[@seow5872]

I mean it could be stapled onto already mediocre white cards to make them fair better against other cards

[@seow5872]

And since wizards seem like they dont know jack shit about what makes white...white, im here to offer my idea

[@tonysmith9905]

@@seow5872 Yeah but see here's the thing: What about when you're ahead? Then the card doesn't do jack. It's the main reason why "equalization" cards are pretty darn bad unless you have one of two things: A super pushed effect or a way to cheat the symmetry, like Balance did. IMO eualization is a pretty bad mechanic because it wants you to already be behind and losing in some area unless you're cheating the card's design.

[@KingBobXVI]

@@tonysmith9905 - It's not the best mechanic, but it is at least _interesting_ - I play Parfait in Legacy sometimes, and the gameplay and deckbuilding implications of a resolved land tax are interesting. There are ways around needing as many lands (mox diamonds, the new lotus field), and your opponent might hamstring themselves to play around it (don't want to play a land or you'll get the tax trigger). They could also implement it a little differently - like land tax is "if they have more lands than you", what if it was "if they have equal or more lands"? That would keep you one, but no more than one, step ahead instead of always being slightly behind.

[@Deviknyte]

WoTC: We hear you. We present to you. Double lifelink.

[@robertlozyniak3661]

Yes, and reprint Test of Endurance!

[@Garl_Vinland]

Yeah, archangel of thine and resplendent angel would break that

[@LinkEX]

Back in the days, using a playset of Loxodon Warhammer was basically that if you equipped two on one creature.

[@gildarmesh3809]

They hear us... now are we ready to receive a 7 cmc boardwipe attached to a 1/5 creature? If you want a +1/+1 anthem they will have to up the cmc by 4 though, or it would be too good. What keywords do you want on this 4/4 for 4 in green? Just everything

[@thecommanddeck2319]

@@LinkEX Loxodon Warhammer on a Rhox War Monk swinging with a Rafiq out was better than drugs. Then they changed the lifelink rule and voila: opioid crisis.

[@princequincy5421]

Have to say, I kind of agree with white being a lackluster color right now. Only exception would be multicolored cards that include white; those have been good.

[@nupurp6972]

Yeah, white on its own is trash. Perhaps because it's the most fair colour and wotc likes to make money off people feeling powerful and white doesn't do that without its 'unfun' oppressive nature. Are they scared a too good white card would make magic boring? Or too 'taxing'? White needs to be better, right now they have 2 paths, help control or help aggro. They can't even be the main anymore, only secondary as in cases like Deafening Clarion or T3F and Hero of dominaria.

[@nupurp6972]

@Dan the Axolotl the 'unfun' is sort of sarcastic. I love the existence of decks like death and taxes or Legacy's Maverick. I personally wouldn't play them, but I like that they are allowed to exist in mtg.

[@LinkEX]

The powerful multicolored white cards is further proof to PK's point of it being a support color. There are a lot of planeswalkers among those for instance. (Though it does make sense in terms of flavor that many people of the Gatewatch would be part white.)

[@happydetectivevalentine3009]

Elly Aldo Rivera Lisboa Like even mono white cards recently have been aimed at multi colored ones. (Hero of precinct 1 as example.)

[@silverdeathgamer2907]

@@nupurp6972 I am not opposed to oppressive stax decks or land destruction even in standard as long as there is some counterplay and the cards are not too undercosted.

[@Gold3nAng3l]

Settle the Wreckage was big during it's tenure in standard. I certainly wouldn't say it warped standard but it did seriously change the combat dynamic of match-ups where it was present. I think it saw a splash of modern play as well although I've not kept up with modern recently so I've no idea if it stuck around.

[@ShiningSpear]

It sees some fringe play in Modern and has been showing up in Pioneer.

[@doombringer4519]

Settle is insane in pioneer, especially because for some reason people still don't play around it

[@asacarmichael9724]

@@doombringer4519 because the only real way to "play around" Settle the Wreckage is to make them have it. Any other plan just gives them free value.

[@zenbrown7144]

@@asacarmichael9724 There are lots of times where holding back one relevant threat when you swing for lethal is the difference between getting blown out and a concession from the opponent.

[@goatshield193]

I played it in d&t when Phoenix was prevalent. I don't play it anymore though, 4 Mana is a lot when you're playing against more threat-dense decks

[@thedarkone246]

An identity problem combined with a vast overestimation of value when it comes to gaining life make for some weak as hell white cards.

[@Vario69]

I always thought it's green who has identity problem / limited design options

[@endermeap6488]

As someone who plays a soul sisters deck in modern, I can attest to how irrelevant life gain can be and how much you need to gain for it to be good.

[@Paimon001]

@@Vario69 It's hard to have an identity when you can do everything better than everyone else.

[@glenbe4026]

Just compare Red's Cavalcade of Calamity to Linden, the Steadfast Queen; Torbran, Thane of Red Fell to Angel of Vitality; to see how even white's lifegain version of red's damage dealing is not just conceptually weaker (due to damage always being better than equivalent lifegain), but mechanically weaker. FFS, take Chandra, Awakened Inferno. No believes WotC would ever print a white planeswalker that has a +1: gain a lifegain emblem, let alone a +2 ability.

[@Paimon001]

​@@glenbe4026 Even *with* life gain payoffs, it takes a lot of work to make life gain worthwhile. Heliod makes white playable, but not even top tier. Nevermind how they treat all of the white characters as corruption or heroic sacrifice bait. I sure love getting attached to a character only for them to get betrayed and killed. Or mind controlled then killed. Or turned into a hideous abomination and then killed. Or giving up the thing that makes them special and then killed. It's very tiring.

[@justincrawford4505]

Honestly, white should have things that “tax” the ability of the other colors to bend the normal rules of magic kind of akin to Waste Not Play an extra land on the same turn? I get to tutor a plains and put it in my hand Draw one or more cards at once beyond your first? I draw a card Cast your third spell this turn? I’ll return a card from my graveyard to my hand Drop the pay 1 and just straight up get value from them doing their stuff

[@doombybbr]

Pay 1 has its uses though, if you tax them for every creature that attacks it can be suffering for the enemy.

[@ab14967]

@@doombybbr That is Baird, but there isn't enough that does that. NOW... how to be truly cancer is you use a blue-white deck(which defeats the purpose of being mono-white), then put down propaganda, ghostly prison, Baird, and have multiple copies of forbidding spirit. Without the spirit, it is mana EACH, and forbidding spirit boosts it to 7 mana for a turn.

[@notsofastcrypto5396]

ohhh shit I like your idea too!

[@Ninjamanhammer]

I feel like if the tax is just steep enough then it satisfies the same spot while feeling more white.

[@NJKoopmeiners]

I agree, Green ramps, Blue draws, Red explodes, black doubles mana and White should tax mana. Is it so intrinsically elegant, have other colors get ahead in their own ways and have white not get ahead, but slow everyone else down. But somewhere it went horribly wrong, because we are all kids throwing tantrums if we are unable to play on our own and get ahead. If our opponent denies us lands and taxes what we do, while protecting their stuff and getting ahead, most of us get salty. I think white already has a lot of things that make it quite potent, but most of it is just hated out of for example Commander. For some reason, land destruction and tax is deemed unfair, while ramping as crazy or drawing your whole deck, or using your life as a broken resource, or burning aggressively is not deemed unfair. I say, let white be white, focus on slowing down the other colors, while protecting yourself, getting life (also a form of getting ahead and elongating the game) and removing threats. And if that really makes the game unfun for people playing against white (as if being milled or controlled by a blue player is very fun), just give people the option to bail out of the unfun effects by paying for it. Just like Smothering Tithe.

[@zoomeralertnation9835]

Enlightened tutor to get something thats literally any other color

[@firedrake110]

Going in for land tax, or if you're in a pickle, aura of silence / ghostly prison, has regularly been pretty good

[@torinwilliams4671]

Whenever someone at wizards says something to the effect of, we can't undermine the weaknesses of white established by the color pie, I always end up thinking, well what are it's strengths?

[@KC_Enthusiast]

Overcosted sorcery removal spells, going wide with small creatures and board wipes. Somehow, two of their three strengths run counter to each other. Brilliant.

[@fernbern4593]

The only color that can remove any kind of permanent (mostly irrelevant as creatures and PW are so pushed now they're the only things worth removing and black does that better) and the best cheap/small creatures (on paper at least, the only really good recent one I can remember is Adanto Vanguard)

[@rastrisfrustreslosgomez544]

Balance, both literally and figuratively. Balance is white's strenght

[@torinwilliams4671]

@@rastrisfrustreslosgomez544 there hasn't been a card with balances strength in a very long time

[@realmrpger4432]

Alexander C Hey, it also has wipe all creatures with toughness 3 or greater!... Oh wait, white is also the color of anthems. Oops.

[@colinbrown74]

I was gonna say you forgot about Elspeth, Sun's Champion for recent, great White cards until I realized Theros was like... 6 or so years ago.

[@aster1760]

hell even knight errant was good. but that shit is old as dirt when it comes to how long its been since we've gotten something of equal quality.

[@freddykingofturtles]

The colors White: Protec. Red: Attac. Green: Snac. Black: Sac. Blue: Stac.

[@briancooley8777]

I think green should be stac and blac be snac right?

[@freddykingofturtles]

@@briancooley8777 so the blue stac is referring to 'the stack' which is the order of cards taking effect. So every time you play a card you've created a stack. And then blue counters it and the counter goes on top of the stack. Black is sac for sacrifice, but green is snac because they have the best mana generation and have the toughest monsters (sometimes called fatties) and they cost a lot of Mana, so they 'eat' all of your Mana... So they're snac.

[@mmlgamer]

So, white can’t even rhyme with the other colors.

[@chumsie2411]

Can we just add the fact that White has consistently gotten the short stick in terms of aesthetics too? The other colours get zombie hords, elemental giants, towering dragons, infernal demons and basically all the other things you'd associate with the word "creature" and "stuff that a super-wizard would summon". Meanwhile White has... dudes and the occasional dudette with wings for when it is feeling sassy. Seriously, when I'm playing White I always catch myself wondering why all of these gentlemen (and ladies!), many of whom are from competing nations and factions, are willing to so casually throw away their lives for the great cause that is me. Yes, I get that the lore does answer why, but that does not make it any less weird to chump-block a 9/9 behemoth with a 1/1 human recruit who's armed with nothing but a pitchfork and the knowledge that he will never get to kiss a girl. Sentience (and humanity in paticular) is a horrible trait for something called a "creature" to possess, especially if it is meant to be expendable. Enough with the soldiers, all of whom have families and loved ones, and the ethical problems tossing them at a rampaging hydra the size of a building raises, I say! Give me spirits, enchanted armours, magical good-guy things and celestial beings instead. Let me *feel* like a good-guy wizard - and not like some dictatorial maniac who cannot think of anything better than "guy with sword", "guy with bigger sword" and " *two guys* with sword".

[@intangiblesnail]

Best comment I read in the whole thread.

[@Tundra0stalker]

Chumsie Off the top of my head I think that a good thing would be to expand "angels" beyond just chicks with wings and swords. Go old testament with wheels of holy fire with countless eyes, multi-headed feathered serpent seraphim that have righteous venom, giant heads that have a face of a lion on one side & a man on the other, etc. If they want to reserve the angel creature type for the traditional depiction you don't even need to call them angels! Do something like D&D does and say they're "celestials" or whatever. Come up with the cool designs that demons and such get and use appropriate or altered ones for white. White isn't an inherently "good" color but is often associated with holy and good things, but good isn't always nice or something pleasant to look at/concerned with not scaring you. "Be not afraid" was something angels said because they were inhuman servants of of a higher power and were intimidating, strange entities. Why not let that power be the player, in a sense? These would fit into already existing concepts of white being associated with things like order and control. Imposing those things on on the multiverse would be a lot more effective via a powerful inhuman celestial thing who follows what you say than an army of humans who feel fear and can have messy things like "moral failings" If you need 1/1 mooks you can make those less fearsome and more human-like to show a contrast to the more powerful creatures.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

@@Tundra0stalker That is an awesome idea! :D I did think of a hilarious situation. Player one plays a white deck. They say "I will summon my cherubim". Player two laughs. They expect a cute little plump baby with bird wings. It would be a a very weak and nonthreatening creature. Player one puts down the card. The cherubim is a very strong and powerful creature. It is a terrifying appearance in the card art. It has four bird wings covered in eyeballs. It also has a human head, lion head, bull head and eagle head. Player two screams in fear. Then player one gets to laugh. There are some fantasy creatures that were originally impressive and formidable. Then in the modern times, they are viewed as being weaker and more cutesy. Cherubim is a good example. There are also dwarves and genies. My pet peeve is elves. When I think of elves, I think of the Lord of the Rings kind. This is my favorite fantasy race. Elves are so cool, so intellegent and just so magical. They really kick butt. They are also taller than humans. This kind of elf is used a lot in the modern fantasy genre. It is also closer to the origional elves in folklore. However in modern ideas outside the fantasy genre elves are depicted differently. They are cute little guys.They don't do anything that impressive. This is like the Keebler elves and the Christmas elves. Seeing the weaker modern depictions really irk me. Oh well. At least Magic the Gathering has good elf depiction. Nissa for instance is an elf, and she is really impressive and strong.

[@Tundra0stalker]

C. D. Dailey Thanks! X3 Such a situation would hopefully get people to talk about white more. The changes I suggested could even be a theme for white in a block and/or help define a new plane if WotC wanted to just test the waters or keep such a thing contained. Like how in Ixalan they had white aligned vampire or something. As for the discrepancy between the common depiction of elves in fantasy and in non-fantasy I'm pretty sure it has to do with the evolution of fey/fairies in culture. Originally fey (such as the mythological insperation, etc. for elves) were a lot more scary, alien, etc. Taking you away for breaking a rule you didn't know of and other bad things. Fairy tails were warnings to "be good or the fairies will come get you" and the like. Fairies were otherworldly beings that were inhuman, or even humans who had died! Depending on the mythology. Then later on they became sanitized, less threating, moralistic and what have you. The Victorian Era comes to mind when fairies were now being/starting to being portrayed as little things that flit about and live in mushroom villages. There were stuff like that before as far as I can tell, but it was different. Elves basically being fairies too changed as well. I don't mind it much tbh, as the contrast has given us more diversity in fiction. Plus the tiny elves make good cookies and who doesn't love cookies? An example of the usage of the juxtaposition of both old, scary faries and new, nice ones is a favorite of mine; the tabletop RPG "Changeling: The Lost", "a storytelling game of beautiful madness" as its tag line reads. In which it makes fairies inhuman, alien things that abduct humans to take them back to Arcadia and basically torture and mind-rape them due to their very nature and the strange magic/laws of Arcadia. Turning the human into a changeling. You play as one of the ones that managed to come back home. Good luck trying to pick up the pieces of your life now that you're not human anymore and likely had a doppelganger that took your place that was created by the faries and doesn't even know it is one, *so it's like you never vanished in the first place* . All the while you realize you can't live your old life anymore, and that the faries are always on the lookout for new slaves....and escaped ones. You truly are one of the Lost. It's maddening, but that madness is so beautiful....

[@abyssalAnalyst]

But this is what "law and order" things are about. Obedience is obedience - so, you just go and die for nothing, that's the order! White is the most evil of five colours, as I think. Maybe it was actually designed as such?

[@peterhone9763]

I am absolutely convinced that white NEEDS the old symmetrical effects again. Cards like Wrath of God, Armageddon, and Path to Exile are all super powerful cards which aim for symmetry among players. This lets white do broken things while staying white. But WOTC doesn't like symmetrical effects - only you get to have stuff. Green is selfish and WOTC's design philosophy that we don't get cards with downsides anymore plays right into green's strengths and away from white's. GIVE US BACK BROKEN WHITE SYMMETRICAL EFFECTS.

[@VolvoxSocks]

This actually makes me wonder if Barter in Blood should be a white effect. It actually synergizes with White's go-wide strategy. It could be easily done flavorfully as a 'for the greater good' type effect.

[@LinkEX]

​@@VolvoxSocks Yeah. _Barter in Blood_ (or _Innocent Blood)_ would definitely have worked in _Planar Chaos_ as a color-shifted card. Sacrifice is dominantly black as of now, at least when forced on others. But as a symmetrical effect, it might work for white as well.

[@Brawler_1337]

LinkEX I could see white getting a destroy version of that effect, maybe. This also allows white to break its own symmetry by choosing an indestructible creature.

[@maxreis9534]

"Wiarzds like green" I couldn't understand the printing of Oko without some green stuff involved. Cash and some weed.

[@alecazam6755]

He has a crown and is sitting like he's about to smoke a big one

[@darksoles1305]

@@alecazam6755 he got that devil's lettuce

[@PiroMunkie]

Vince: When was the last time a white card dominated Standard? Me, an intellectual: Squadron Hawk

[@PleasantKenobi]

Count the years, and consider what card broke the Hawk... it was Blue.

[@firedrake110]

Nah mate, elspeth on 6. That shit was the end of a game

[@PiroMunkie]

@@PleasantKenobi A white common was so singularly powerful it got both Stoneforge Mystic AND Jace, the Mindsculptor banned in Modern.

[@rickliao7259]

What about Glint Hawk, Dominator of Pauper?

[@rabbitgrlrabbitwrld]

Elspeth Sun's Champion, Teferi, Siege Rhino, Wingmate Roc

[@nathanbennett2432]

Also what is with good"ish" white cards always having multiple white mana symbols in its casting cost?? "We don't want this to be relevant and be used outside of white now!"

[@MtgGalaxy]

Except smothering tithe...

[@nlb494]

There will always be an exception

[@xcalibur3092]

Maybe it’s fear about them taking over in Azorious or Esper? But you are right though, there’s so many times I’ve thought about including cards in decks that are good white cards and I’m just like “ugh but is it too mana restrictive?”

[@ClubbingSealCub]

balance is a pretty good magic card, they should reprint that into standard

[@Jonathan-qk5ed]

??? Balance is a very BROKEN magic card... what are you thinking?!?!? (Not being sarcastic... FACTS)

[@YoungPadawan85]

one of my favorite things to do back when i was still playing vintage regularly was tap two to float two mana, play Gush with its APC (alternate play cost) bounce the two lands i just tapped and then play Balance with the two floated mana, best effect when played on 2nd turn after opponent cracked two fetch to get their two dual lands into play, yes this a good way to make other players absolutely hate your guts for as long as they continue to encounter you at that game store, and sure i would feel bad if they took it personally but i always tried to play it down and laugh it off with an attitude of like "don't hate the player, hate the game" hah

[@somehoweverynameiwantistak5535]

@@YoungPadawan85 That's absolutely disgusting and I need to do it to someone immediately

[@wadehudgens3195]

@@Jonathan-qk5ed wooooooosh

[@jamesarclight544]

No

[@swish9017]

"Nobody at WotC watches my content" says the guy who got Stoneforge Mystic unbanned.

[@andrewsparkes8829]

Also says the guy who hypocritically doesn't pay attention to WotC's content. Maro answered this yesterday in his column: "Different ways to play Magic lean on different aspects of the game, and those things aren't necessarily balanced in the color pie. For example, the colors were created originally around a two-player game where each player started with 20 life. Along comes the popular Commander format where there are many players, usually a lot more than two, and players start at 40 life. A big part of white and red's identities, for example, was built into the fact that they had aggressive strategies using low-cost cards." And taking this further, monowhite is actually the second best monocolor deck in Canadian Highlander. It isn't a weak color overall, just in formats that go long. Which is fair because in fast formats, it usually performs better than other colors - there's a reason white is still one of the strongest colors in Legacy/Vintage even today; isn't Vince's own favourite deck white/black? White doesn't have an identity problem at all; it has a strong identity that just isn't optimal in Commander.

[@someguy2349]

@@andrewsparkes8829 MaRo says alot if bullshit so what? white is bad in every eternal format outside of pauper. You could remove white from the game and it would have no effect on pioneer white is the color of answers but it's removal is trash. Red has better aggressive creatures and reach with burn. And white has no good tax effects or LD stop saying White is fine it clearly isn't.

[@PalPlays]

@@andrewsparkes8829 "white is one of the strongest colors in vintage/legacy even today." Not only is this blatantly false, but a quick look at the banlist shows just how false your statement is.

[@asiniel23216]

@@andrewsparkes8829 wtf. Vince put numbers in front of your face. Wite is only played in legacy as a support color for its removal. I can't speak for canadian highlander, but my guess is it's a simmilar situation. Also Maro said a lot of shit during his time at WotC. Don't trus everything he says

[@jessehunter362]

​@@asiniel23216 In specifically canadian highlander white is actually a pretty good mono-colored deck, especially when mixed with colorless cards. However, thats probably because white has a lot of redundancy in its effects, because the individual power level of each card tends to matter less when each card is only 1 out of 100. White has something like 14 2/1 for 1 now, and that means you can make a pretty reliable deck based around white 2/1s for one in canadian highlander. White has (by memory) the least pointed cards in the format of canadian highlander, so the power level of the individual cards is not up there with the rest of the colors.

[@PhenoFatality]

Did you forget? White is home to one of the best abilities made. Who doesn't love Banding?

[@nathanbennett2432]

What do you mean the color that gets no card advantage or mana advantage with the smallest creatures and the worst top end has a problem ?? I don't get it ?? White is the truest form of fair magic!

[@RyeFields]

While every other color and devoid gets some "unfair" advantage over others

[@dittmar104]

I want to raise taxes! I wanna lock them up! I wanna take their lands and salt their fields!

[@Dialethian]

White can get card advantage. E.g A well timed board wipe. It just can't draw; making a 4/4 with vigilance or flying is fine tho. It just shouldn't refill the hand better than other colors.

[@nunyadambidniss]

@@Dialethian There's card draw in White if you look for it :) Mesa Enchantress is pretty solid &quite a few Instants have a Cantrip tacked on, Plus there's this- gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=466998 Which I consider to be a better alternative to Secluded Steppe :) Whatta ya'll here think ?

[@willjackson5885]

I feel like white shoulda got the taxing counterspells like spell pierce, and while blue got the hard counterspells.

[@ilobmirt]

I mean, look at Mana Tithe for a genuine white taxing counterspell. Then for hard counters, white got lapse of certainty. I'd be totally fine with a white mana leak.

[@kifinnsson]

This is exactly what white needs, it's already tertiary in white, it soft counters should to be bumped up to primary and moved to tertiary in blue. There is plenty of space to play with soft counters in white outside of straight additional mana costs. By the same token Browbeat effects should be Boros in identity.

[@willjackson5885]

And/or white also could card draw based on life. “Draw an additional card on your upkeep if you have X life more than your starting life total” or “If you gained X much life this turn, draw an additional card on your upkeep”

[@deciett]

​@@kifinnsson "Counter target spell. Its controller gains X." Leans into the whole balance subtheme of white. Their thing was destroyed but they get something in compensation. "Choose target spell an opponent controls. Its controller chooses one: * Target spell is countered * White mage gains X" Same kind of idea. You're trying to get a nice thing, we should either all have nice things or neither of us should have nice things. The former effect is probably much stronger than the latter effect because opponent choice is very potent, but these seem like on-theme ideas for primary white counterspells.

[@jameslyvers8871]

@@willjackson5885 this literally already exists via Dawn of Hope.

[@zotha]

Another card that gives a good template on how to improve white is Bygone Bishop. Investigate seems like the perfect way to give white repeatable card draw.

[@GamerdevilPro]

@Ryu the Human tbf card draw triggering from token etb is somewhat problematic, and I think they are really careful now what creature triggers which effect. Guardian Project for example also only triggers from nontokens. Even a mythic bomb like the great henge only triggers from nontoken creatures.

[@dittmar104]

They should just make an artifact called equality engine and at up keep you pay to draw equal to your opponent or have them discard till they’re equal with you.

[@EnbyeonTTV]

Ixalan's Binding was pretty strong when it was in Standard. Settle the Wreckage as well. But yeah, more recent ones are pretty lackluster.

[@GamerdevilPro]

Ixalans binding is relatively good for standard, yes, but it also is just a permanent sitting on the board that just gets blown up and then you are back to square one.

[@d0tline468]

goes wide.... kayas wrath. rebuilds.... time wipe. slowly assemble mana for stuff like archon, counterspelled or dies to literally anything. against discard autolose.

[@ddff652]

In Theros Beyond Death WotC gave Ixalan's Binding to Blue and made it much better than the original. Just like they gave Ajani's Pridemate to Black as Bloody Aerialist and made it much better than the original.

[@GamerdevilPro]

@@ddff652 Ashioks erasure isn't a strictly better ixalans binding. It only does something on the stack, it's essentially a spell queller as an enchantment (plus that can't cast clause). You can draw a ixalans binding after the threat has already landed and get rid of it. If you draw an Ashioks erasure instead at that point you are fucked. The card works like a counterspell. It also just could have been a 4 Mana counter your thing and exile it.

[@ddff652]

@@GamerdevilPro It is NOT a counterspell so it can get rid of uncounterable cards! 6CMC Chandra with the 1 damage emblem would just disappear and do nothing with Ashiok's Erasure, while with Ixalan's Binding it will activate it's emblem. I still think it is just straight up better!

[@impendio]

I love how MaRo said they were doing something different with white in ELD and they literally made it the worst color and gave it absolutely nothing new 🙃

[@Mattimus-cc7ge]

Haha I never connected that, that's funny.

[@ExtremeMedium]

They did do something new with it. They altered it from being below average to unbelievably god awful

[@antonskor8127]

At this point I don’t trust maro and view him more like a pr rep for wotc

[@ddff652]

Do you have the link to where he said that?

[@m.mulder8864]

@@ddff652 markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/186774318273/is-white-getting-any-new-effect-or-ability-that-it#notes

[@testthewest123]

Man, reprint Armageddon in standard. That'll show them!

[@d0tline468]

in all honesty, with the fucking ramp and land spam that happens for free/is highly incentivized at the moment: it would be an improvement

[@dittmar104]

I go hit by an ajani ultimate while playing simic ramp today. Exile all my awoken lands taking my down to two islands and one goose in hand. I still won! That’s how bad white is at the moment

[@testthewest123]

BlueRidgeSilverhound Yeah, I still know how it was back in the day: You simply kept some lands in your hand. Armageddon was White weenies trump card - though its creatures weren't as pushed as todays beaters (most not in white though) are.

[@redstonepro5412]

Yeah, i wamt to play historic armageddon-fires-superfriends...

[@ryanoutram7059]

Armageddon in Standard would be such a fun time, but it'd affect the viability of control decks too much for us to ever see that happen 😔

[@Aronia55]

Adanto Vanguard was pretty good. Venerated Loxodon is still kicking but overall pretty weak sauce

[@rodeofrancisco6130]

Right.

[@dittmar104]

Smokingpapyrus people are always hyping loxodon. I don’t see what the big deal is. Especially in standard where half the decks are running multiple play sets of board wipes and the other half is better aggro. without a god draw and some luck you spend a turn tapping all you creatures to get wrathed or steam rolled.

[@broomybroomybroomy]

Adanto Vanguard was fucking awesome. Playing against control and just paying the 4 life every time made me feel immortal until cry of the carnarium was printed

[@ragehardt7523]

Adanto was only good in standard, because its activatable indestructibility actually blanked a good bunch of answers to it. It has not done shit in any other format, because exil is not that reare and four life is actually funckin much in some of these eternal formats.

[@centurosproductions8827]

I remember when I started Magic, the joke was that white was always the worst card in every cycle because the "white effect" was almost invariably lifegain. I guess with Linden, we've come full circle.

[@AndrewWoodford]

Thraben Investigations WW Whenever an Opponent Casts Their First Spell Each Turn Make a Clue Unless They Pay (1)

[@AndrewWoodford]

Could also make it 1WW to ETB with a Clue

[@LincolnMorris]

Ayy fellow thrower!

[@AndrewWoodford]

Lincoln Morris Hey what’s up Linc!

[@kahahabahaha]

@@AndrewWoodford WW for ETB with a clue seems fairish to me, since we're on the matter of how weak white is lol

[@YourCrazyOverlord]

I'd take away that "first spell" clause and make it cost 1WW

[@uiop60]

Thraben Study 2W Enchantment - Whenever an opponent casts a spell, investigate unless that player pays {1}.

[@brningpyre]

One part of it is that Wizards decided that White was the colour that does "unfun" things, and then also decided that they wanted to power down or eliminate those kind of effects. Just like most problems at Wizards, that one is just like a matter of poor communication. That said, all your examples are really good. Especially the Eldraine big-artifact-cycle, where the white one is just... ugh.

[@robertlozyniak3661]

I remembered from when I used to play, that Elenda was *a lot* of fun, and then I go to look her up, and... turns out she's Orzhov.

[@RiseInAfterlife]

The color that does unfun things? Have they ever looked vaguely in the direction of blue? Just take Standard with its limited cardpool and the blue decks that are not even running white for access to Azorious. Izzet and Simic Flash. Nonono, white is unfun, sitting there and having every single spell you try to cast countered, THAT is fun.

[@veriest1]

Green is the color of un-fun now. Thank Veil of Summer and (partially) Oko.

[@RiseInAfterlife]

@@veriest1 Nah. Green is completely fine. Playing Monogreen is like always big creatures and do stuff. It's always when green+blue is mixed. Blue is as always the problem. Also I want Veil of Summer back. There is so damn much spot removal, bounce, counter everywhere. Oko ruined the card because it was played in the same Deck. Either unban it or give us Autumn's Veil reprint in the next set. "Oh no, my counter, removal, choice-handhate was 'countered' this is illegal, only I am allowed to do that." Control Deserves that. However. Ban Nissa, Wilderness Reclamation and Uro. Those are the card with green in it that need to go.

[@veriest1]

@@RiseInAfterlife as a legacy player I mostly see Veil backing up Tendrils for 20. I can see your point in other formats but Legacy is in this Veil/Discard metagame cycle and Breach is just preying on it. Edit: Show and Tell decks love Veil too. IMO, that card should have only hit Blue cards. It's not like Pyrpblast hits blue and white cards.

[@jamesstell7200]

One key way to improve white: target player gains negative 3 life.

[@JackD1615]

Hello this is my mono white life gain deck. The all star is lightning hug.

[@PalPlays]

@@JackD1615 And Lava Cushion.

[@tomjackal5708]

Funny how the cards that actually do things with lifegain are black

[@echodyne]

Basically Tainted remedy. a black card...

[@robertlozyniak3661]

@@karlsmink Would that be Boros, perhaps?

[@McGoober101]

But Vince white has amazing cards like Healing Salve!

[@ming-holmeidenbach6392]

One of my friends is possibly the worst player of all time. In a game of commander he used a Healing Salve to save his Dross Crocodile. True story

[@CasualMTGDecks]

@@ming-holmeidenbach6392 he needs a statue !

[@kaseybennett7415]

@@ming-holmeidenbach6392 Give him a medal.

[@ManaDrain315]

Healing Salve is bad, until you strap it onto a Lightning Bolt. Now they just need to strap it on Ancestrall Recall.

[@АлександрМиранович-п9с]

Ancestral lightning salve. No manacost, suspend 3 for WUR. Urge 1(you may pay urge cost any number of times as you pay this spells suspend cost. It enters the exile with one less time counter for each time urge cost was paid), target player gains 3 life, prevent the next 3 damage that target player or creature would recieve this turn, deal 3 damage to any target, target player draws 3 cards.

[@cafelattis9487]

I agree with almost everything, but how does Red also get the short end of the stick? I feel that red is getting more and MORE stuff with every set.

[@cadenglass1387]

Historically

[@milanvandergraaf9769]

In commander it does not

[@JeckolaEcho]

I'll never get complaints about red being not good enough given there's literally decks called "Red Deck Wins". Plus the last couple of years of mono red aggro style decks in standard is pretty significant.

[@DeepCDiva]

I feel like, historically, Red usually gets way less daring and creative cards than other colors(Which is bizarre, considering Red is supposed to represent creativity.), the tools it gets are usually straight up damage which while effective is not really as exciting as what, say, blue usually gets. But I do think this has been getting a lot better since the introduction of Red's impulsive draw, and cards like 6-mana Chandra, Chainwhirler and Syr Carah are pretty fun.

[@Scratchcardcomics]

What always springs to my mind is the fact that Shivan Gorge was in the same cycle as Tolarian Academy, Gaea's Cradle, Phyrexian Tower, and Serra's Sanctum.

[@davispo7550]

I suggest something like a reverse risk factor: "White Card Religious/Lawful name," costs XWW. Sorcery, "An opponent may have you gain 5 times X life. If they do not, draw X cards."

[@davispo7550]

Or perhaps, this: "White Card-Draw enchantment," costs 1WW. Enchantment - "At the beginning of your end step, an opponent may have you gain 4 life. If they don't, you may draw a card."

[@milanvandergraaf9769]

I would honestly have them have the life every time

[@milanvandergraaf9769]

Certainly in commander

[@davispo7550]

@@milanvandergraaf9769 Yeah, that's the idea, but if you're playing against a control deck in a 1v1 format, 5 Mana for 15 life or 7 Mana for 25 life is a solid deal, and burn can be stalled out with some removal and 1 casting of this at X = 1. Not format warping but an interesting tool

[@sergiosanmuahahaha]

At Least is a step in the right direction, something to brew with. If lifegain is going to be White's identity, then give me cards like this or cards like Serra ascendant, martyr of sands, maybe reasonable costed (maybe 4/5 drop) Serra avatar with evasion if life is higher than 40

[@alexbremner3944]

Settle the wreckage was nice, Knight of the white orchid was a nice balancing card vs ramp for white

[@tomjackal5708]

white orchid is sweet, a lot of the time on the draw it's just a 2/2 first striker for WW that ramps you an untapped land

[@alexbremner3944]

@@tomjackal5708 in pioneer you can turn 3 lotus field into a 5 mana turn 4

[@aidanreilly8337]

For the love of god please reprint resto into standard/ pioneer

[@JakeTSloan]

Resto angel in pioneer would be GAS

[@deskgo]

Honestly why couldn't they just fucking ban saheeli and the 6 mana enchantment to give white an identity in pioneer

[@coleeiland5642]

@@deskgo because of the God awful flame shadow conjuring alternative combo. Wizards would rather ban the cat. Which leads me to believe they will never print the same flicker effect under 4 mana ever again, or saheeli comes right back up to power. Let me spell this out. Wizards would rather ban a flicker type effect, and take a mechanic out of magic than ban the the splinter twin. You could compare this to pestermite/exarch getting the ban instead of splinter twin. It's very similar.

[@PalPlays]

@@coleeiland5642 They have gone on record saying that Felidar's lack of flicker restrictions was an oversight.

[@coleeiland5642]

@@PalPlays felidar guardian should read until end of turn, or flicker other non cat token like resto. I would agree with that, but I don't find it to be problematic in the same way saheeli could be. I could be very wrong though. I will also say I didn't find the combo deck itself to be that problematic either in comparison to other decks in pioneer, but wizards is still in the process of banning cards. We can only see where the format ends up. I just feel not banning saheeli leaves open more space for similar type effects that could be abused as early as turn three or four.

[@Alphabeta824]

Thank you so much for bringing this up! I also love white and would love for them to give it a stronger identity and allow it to stand with the other colors. Let's let Magic be a game of five colors.

[@thetimebinder]

White's problem is that it is a color of magic bullets, when sometimes you just need a club.

[@redhotfreak94]

pun intended? :D

[@Waterd103]

History of benalia was a format defining card, just wanted to say that.

[@goreobsessed2308]

True

[@0rthogonal]

One card in the last how many years?

[@tombrown407]

@@0rthogonal Benalish Marshall? He was a good boi

[@Organous]

I feel what would make white a powerhouse would be particularly strong reactions. Use the opponent's aggressive actions against them. We see this in the numerous spells that kill creatures which attack, but there's so much more that could be done. White should be able to counter spells and make them work for you. White should get damage redirection and target redirection instead of blue & red getting that. Ok, I can't counter your Banefire, but now *you* are the one taking all that damage. How about *gain control* of target creature attacking you? Exile a spell from an opponent's graveyard with X cost and play a copy of it. Draw X cards, X = your opponent's hand size minus your own. Let a creature take whatever damage dealt to it beyond lethal damage and turn that on whatever target you like. Transform -1/-1 counters into +1/+1 counters. * For a very specific example, give a permanent card an ability like this: "Tap: Target a spell or ability that involved tapping any number of creatures to pay for it. Your opponent may sacrifice any number of those creatures. For each creature that was not sacrificed, create a token that's a copy of that creature. It gains haste until end of turn. Sacrifice them at end of turn." (My wording is probably antiquated, but effectively if your opponent wants to do a thing with their creatures, you get to also do that.) Literally all effects should be on the table, as long as they are based on the potential strengths of your opponent. You will attain their greatness. They will feel your pain. Of course, this shouldn't be the entire strategy. You're never going to do your opponent's strategy better than them, but this would be a powerful element to bring in.

[@jameslyvers8871]

I like your ideas, for drawing cards in particular how about "Spiritual Equilibrium 1W Enchantment Whenever an opponent draws one or more cards if you do not have more cards in your hand than that opponent draw a card." might need to be 3 CMC might be too powerful with certain go wide strategies...Or maybe it needs to only trigger off card draws from effects the opponent controls? (i.e. you giving them a draw, or the normal draw step draw doesn't trigger your draw?) you could have similar effects for other things like gaining life, or Creatures entering/leaving the battlefield. Soul Warden is kind of the poster child for this sort of effect really.

[@splinterwyatt]

I think white should have more multi use cards like Knight of autumn and charming prince, cards that can be useful in different situations

[@alistairetheblu]

They should really do more to push white's "can't" effects like Deafening Silence. Blue is known as the "Nope" color to stuff on the stack; white should be the "nope" color for things in play.

[@LinkEX]

Well, in a way it already is, which is one reason why it's such a popular support color.

[@SeniorPrecio]

I wish Weathered Wayfarer was a little bit better. That’s my favorite card ever and white is definitely my favorite color. I definitely agree with you here man

[@sergiosanmuahahaha]

Yeah cards like that are important to keep seeing reprints, small, usefully creatures are what white is about then keep printing them

[@supermegaultraawsome]

I know Maro has gone out and said white basically isn't allowed card draw, and even weak draw like Dawn of Hope (conditional and super expensive per card). But in my mind white should have Collective Unconscious type effects. It's not fair that green gets card draw based on creatures being cast/etbing, and based off power, AND based off of number of creatures. White is the color that's supposed to care about having lots of little dudes and they're all about the community. Thus, why can't white draw cards for every creature they control?

[@echodyne]

whenever a creature etb under your control, if you control another creature with the same name, you may pay and draw a card

[@bendertusepaki8995]

"Wizards hates white player"... I hadent tought about that until you precised it xD

[@EriKyoto]

Smothring tithe so good. Forgot about teferi's protection. That card has a win blowout that feels similar to cyclonic rift sometimes.

[@PleasantKenobi]

I did forget Protection, that card is very good and what White should be doing.

[@TelvanniGuard]

The only time I'm excited for a white card is when it has another color on the card. White seems to always get really strong Gold cards.

[@oatmealftw]

I believe monastery mentor is the best white card printed fairly recently that you didn't talk about.

[@LinkEX]

Ignoring the Judge Rewards promo, I wouldn't exactly call 2014 _fairly recently._

[@oatmealftw]

@@LinkEX what in your mind is fairly recently? (And why do you see the need to say 5 years isn't)

[@LinkEX]

@@oatmealftw It depends on the context, of course. If we're talking about historic events, half a decade is "fairly recently". But generally speaking, I'd say less than a year at least. And even less than three months by internet standards, even.

[@Simon-ow6td]

Yeah, white has had a few rough years.

[@nhogan84]

"So why does WoTC hate white players?" *DEMONITIZED* Dang it!

[@ethanwilliams4559]

Like am I the only one around here that remembers that WotC are super liberals who think the color white alone is a symbol of white supremacy and racism? Your comment is basically the perfect double entendre for how they think. Last good white I remember in a set was ixalan, and look who got the majority of the white. Real shocker there.

[@CantusTropus]

@@ethanwilliams4559 Reminder that that set made the obviously Spanish conquistador faction literal vampires.

[@mativhs]

It's hard to vocalize how much I agree with you! Lets just say: Veeeeeeeeeeery much. The plight of the "white" players (T.T) I love the design space of >philosophy< for "white". It's a product of civilisation, concerned with morality, tries to establish rules for society, is concerned with redistribution of resources, is the foundation of laws, ... >Culture< feels very "white" too (product of civilisation, peacefull, ...) so theaters, museums, literature, playwrites, authors, painters, musicians, ... +both are nice ways to explore a plane. I would love the opposite of impulsive draw for "white": Draw at the next upkeep ... or: your next upkeep. So a card like: Sorcery W: Draw 2 cards at the beginning of your next upkeep. For ramp I like the artifact sub type >Fortification< (see Darksteel Garrison from future side). So a card like: Artifact - Fortification W: When you tap the fortified land for Mana add W to your mana pool, Fortify W (W: Attach to target land you control. Fortify only as a sorcery. This card enters the battlefield unattached and stays on the battlefield if the land leaves play.) Both are a nice thematic representation of civilazation building up over time and would work great within the design spaces of >Philosophy< or >Culture

[@rastrisfrustreslosgomez544]

matiVHS I agree mostly, but you're giving white far more than it should have. Museums may be white, but literature is blue and painters are red. Justice in and on itself is jeskai. Bottom line is culture is all 5 colors

[@tomjackal5708]

I _would_ like to see Fortifications revisited because honestly it seems like it could do some interesting things

[@rastrisfrustreslosgomez544]

Ryu the Human well yes that is true. Biology is UG, chemistry is UR and a the new england birding journal is green. As I was saying, culture is all 5 colors

[@pacattack2586]

I like the idea of non-impulsive draw for white - For anyone who remembers suspend possibly a white card that NORMALLY costs 6 draw 2 (keep in mind it would normally have to cost more then blue to stay in it's lane) or suspend 2 1W Flavor text: "If we plan to bring reinforcements later it'll be easier to bring them in if we ask for them now" or something similar where hey you CAN do this effect but it's going to be better to plan for it later

[@mativhs]

@@rastrisfrustreslosgomez544 I do agree that >culture< is a very broad term and yes every color contributes to it in one or the other way. (It may be possible I overextend a bit .. not sure) To me the aspects of >culture< I've listed above feel very much like a product of a quite far developed civilization in a very general sense. So in other words they can emerge in a strongly structured society that given all it's downsides (restrictions due to the rule of law, taxes, government, redistribution, ...) can expend the resources necessary to fund such endeavors/jobs and has an interest in developing these further. In a way (to me) it seems like a counter weight to the WOTC approach of oppression of the people, military/security structures, ... that they predominatly associate with their interpretation of the theme "civilisation" in the color. From my perspective they too often neglect many of parts that make those big societal structures actually good for the people, just to go for the cheap easy route of >military/soldiers/knights that defend the citizens/subjects< or >enforce rules< again and again ... Justice as a philosophy tries to apply ethics/morals on a societal scale. In that sense it feels very "white" to me. The way it is enforced could very much depend on the type of society hence can vary (so different colors could all be possible). Additionaly it could even be thinkable that a kind of autocratic regime has their form of "justice". That means I could even see the possibility of a B/W intersection. Obviously red/blue/green would work in one or the other way too, given specific societies and/or content of the underlying moral theories. To me those 4 other colors are more like second order relating to specific expressions of justice. While the general notion of justice is "white". So I see Justice as being possible in any combination that includes "white". That means that the only mono colored expression of that kind of justice that could be sufficient to meet my definition would be "white". But again we don't all have to agree on those things :D I would just like WOTC to explore the non-fighting aspects of the color a bit more. It doesn't have to be in terms of my ideas. They have plenty of capable people there. I think they just need a bit more creative freedom :D

[@pedropaulofaria6126]

i think white should have more focus on exiling and interacting with the exile there are a lot of design space left by it. also the "social contract" of commander hurts white so much, because it took away one of its better mechanics and gave green space to ramp with no counterplay. also effects that "balance" the table should be more present

[@N8Maple01]

Dawn of Hope I want in all of my white standard decks.

[@xcalibur3092]

I feel like Dawn of Hope still is too expensive for its different effects though. Like one less mana for the token maybe. Idk. Every time I tried to put it in a deck I felt I either had to devote too much mana to it or build entirely around it

[@kaseybennett7415]

Too add, Avacyn was crazy in SOI standard. Beyond that I agree.

[@Mattimus-cc7ge]

Doesn't it turn red though

[@kaseybennett7415]

@@Mattimus-cc7ge yea but it's a white card still, it was often played completely independent of red, thus making it a white card. It in no way requires or even implies you should play red.

[@kalxandore]

"pushed taxes enchantment" 3W Enchantment Whenever an opponent pays for a triggered ability you control choose one: - Create a 1/1 Soilder - Create a Clue - Create a Treasure - Gain 2 life

[@Isolanporzellator]

People don't usually pay for triggered abilities, so that's a pretty bad enchantment.

[@argumentumadhominem3977]

ghostly prison reprint

[@neuroscivan]

Yeah if white had a bigger taxing theme this card would be insane

[@CH4R10T_TV]

I know Wizards I really reticent to give white draw effects in general, but you mentioned Rhystic Study and it's worth noting that exchanging "Draw 1 card" with "Gain 1 life and put a 1/1 Soldier creature onto the battlefield" is fully within white's slice of the color pie. It does fall back to the "white weenie" style of deck, but it's also a tax that advances your board state. Some variant of "[tax effect] gives you [white flavor thing]" is decent. But what I'd really like to mention is that there was a card Journey into Nyx back in Theros block that was W/B and could exile a card from the opponent's hand for as long as it remained on the battlefield. I honestly believe that an effect like that could work in just plain white. If white had pseudo-hand destruction abilities I think it would expand its color identity a little more. I dunno, I'm not a designer either but that's just a thought.

[@halfwing3306]

Vince, i'm curious. Have you played with Gunk Slug, from the test cards in mystery boosters? They printed a white card with a black mana symbol on it even in fake cards!

[@Threeve703]

great discussion. Would also like to see a white-dominant deck in commander. it's a good secondary color in a lot of ways but it doesn't feel like it has ways to take over games like the other colors.

[@Billchu13]

Gideon, History of Benalia, Circle of Loyalty... time to build Knights!

[@rodeofrancisco6130]

Pioneer and historic have capabilities. I have deck lists for both of those formats plus a bunch of modern knight builds as well.

[@nolanbrett204]

I made a Gideon deck, it uses all the Gideons, the main plan is white weenies along with buffing Kytheon/Gideon for commander damage, then there is Gideon of the Trial's emblem which I activate before using Champion of Justice's ultimate to exile everything and then using Teferi's Protection to keep all of my stuff, there are a few other ways of winning that include token gods, etc

[@pandoradoggle]

It's been a while since I played, so I may have missed something like this happening, but could White use the concept of "improving lands" - like, with the flavor of building structures on those lands? I expect that would be implemented with Auras with Enchant Land, and it could involve building counters on those lands. I suggest this partly because I don't know whether this is a concept that's really been done very much so far and because it just seems to fit within White's flavor of order and structure. It may or may not be something that could actually make White good... anyway, I'm rambling.

[@KPX01]

For rhystic study, i think that was the time when taxing is both blue and white stuff, studies is not the only blue tax card back then.

[@slightly1272]

It's simple really. They just want more diversity in magic (I feel the need to clarify that this is a joke).

[@CaptTeamwork]

I think you're right. WotC is known to be a "woke" company. They are removing old cards that are deemed "racist". They are changing D&D because of "racism". It wouldn't surprise me if they made white weak for this reason. They can't just remove white completely from the game. It's a core part of the original game. But if they could they would. Instead they just print weak cards for white. The next best thing in their eyes.

[@envysart797]

I really like Ranger Captain but the only solid home I’ve found for him is in GWx devoted druid decks in modern because he fetches your walking ballista and cuts off interaction on your turn at the same time. That’s really powerful but also SUPER specific. And the majority of the deck is green anyway so..

[@AnomonomonA]

Another part of white that I don’t think gets much attention is it’s “Rattlesnake” aspects. Cards like Karmic Justice or Martyr’s Bond that have powerful effects, but only when an opponent hurts you or your board. Otherwise I’d love to see Investigate become white’s draw.

[@fernbern4593]

Just a reminder that counterspells are in white's color pie, only "delaying" and "taxing" counterspells but still, Lapse of Certainty and Mana Tithe are not breaks, they've just refused to make more for some reason and I know those are not the best but they're both common, they could print some better ones at higher rarities. source: magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2017-2017-06-05

[@adamgalloy9371]

Started reading and thought "This is someone who clearly doesn't know what they are talking about." Then I checked the link and sure enough Counterspells are tertiary in White. Definitely wouldn't have guessed that if you hadn't pointed it out.

[@viyami]

2WW Artifact Whenever you gain 2 or more life, draw a card. I'd like to see this in the game. I noticed many creatures with lifelink are very small 1/X. This could give white some interesting fuel with those board ramps turning into a weenie swing to gain lots of life and get some gas. Also, I'd like to see something like the following for Commander because of the politicking shenanigans that could ensue: 2W Enchantment Whenever a player would draw a card other than their first each turn, each of that player's opponents draws a card instead.

[@drakerezendes3999]

I had a Lyra Dawnbringer EDH deck that used to clean house provided I got my land drops. White does usually get the short end of the stick and it’s a damn shame. Red, white and blue are my favorite colors in magic (pretty much in that order) and it sucks that mono white is so hard to run.

[@awrenfaussa8887]

WotC: White gains you life to keep you from losing the game! Also WotC: *Prints cards that hate on lifegain or cards with alternate win conditions*

[@ddff652]

Don't forget the Black two cards combo that just deals 100% of the players health as damage to him.

[@mrpandabites]

I have been saying the Rhystic Study, taxation thing for ages. I absolutely agree with the Investigate as white card draw thing too. Good ideas, Vince. Good. Eye. Dears.

[@davidsnedden4796]

Love this - I have been becoming a bit bored of standard lately and I think I have narrowed it down to the fact that I feel relatively similar about blue. I think the design team tries to stay away from blue being all too crazy as of late because it just pisses everybody off, but if you look at older formats you can do really cool fun stuff in blue that ends the game quickly, not just irritate your opponent until they concede. People don't hate blue purely because they counter all of your shit - they hate it cause it wastes your time cause the way it is designed in these entry level formats is boring as fuck.

[@davidsnedden4796]

Well - that and the dreaded P-word....

[@TheNeoDaedalus]

I think they also need to rework some white creatures to work differently. I think it would really suit them if they played around either having low amounts of good creatures or having an army and I'm talking at the same time, here's an example: "Generic soldier / 1W casting cost / creature - human soldier / 1/2 / When you control 2 or fewer creature it gets +1/+1. When you control 5 or more creatures it gets +3/+3 and Vigilance." This way their identity cold be around those low-costed efficient creatures they've always had (savannah lions) and playing around a mass of creatures that white likes a lot, but leaving the middle ground to other colors that do it better. This way it would also involve a lot of skill and good timing for the player playing white to decide when to start pushing more creatures out (risk being weaker with middle numbers for a couple of turns or wait until they have enough mana to drop the whole army, playing control up until that point). I think they should also make their more signature keywords support that. Lifelink for example, is a keyword that is very unengaging during the early/mid game, but can be swingy in the late-game when employed en-masse. Here's another example: "Generic captain / 2WW / creature - human soldier / 2/4 / When you control 2 or fewer other creatures, those creatures gain +0/+1 and vigilance. When you control 5 or more other creatures, those creatures gain +2/+0 and have lifelink. With this card, you can use vigilance to try and keep up offense with still having defensive options, but when you get that mass of creatures, you switch to bigger pushes where lifelink can sort-of reset your life total and swing the game back in your favour. This strategy also works with boardwipes that white is known for. If the field is not in your favour, just reset it with a wrath of god and go again with your low-costed efficient creatures. It also works with white not having big draw power, but more efficient use of the cards that they do have. I'm sure there's plenty more good and probably better ideas than this, but wotc just seems so tunnel visioned on tribal in white for a while right now that it's unlikely to get used.

[@ryandmckenzie]

But Stoneforge mystic and monastery mentor so good though.

[@rebelarmygaming6570]

Idea Interrogate (1)(W) Enchantment At the beginning of your upkeep, if an opponent owns a card that is exiled by a permanent you control, draw a card.

[@jessewooden3145]

Wizards watches your content. That’s how you got stoneforge mystic unbanned.

[@BatCaveOz]

Kenobi - White Cards Used To SUCK Me - Wrath of God, Swords to Plowshares, Balance, Armageddon, Land Tax, Serra Angel, Karma, White Knight, Resurrection, Northern Paladin, Conversion, Personal Incarnation, Disenchant, etc. Old White Cards used to ROCK

[@Hawko1313]

honestly white isn't the best at anything, just by virtue of having to actually tap lands for white mana in order to play those cards. why play a bad colour for one card when any other colour can easily fill the void. Your format has to be damn unfair to need white cards out of the board, and at the top of their game, blue and black do a better job of interacting with those unfair decks anyway. White sucks, its defined by its limitations, while green, blue and black are defined by their strengths

[@caribourange81]

I thought resplendent angel was a pretty bomb card, saw some fringe standard play. That alongside Dawn of hope show off some design space of giving rewards for gaining life which could be explored more and pushed harder imo

[@Mercenary0712]

Can't remember if you mentioned Deafening Silence, has been a boon in my Stax deck

[@PalPlays]

Who is your commander?

[@Mercenary0712]

@@PalPlays tappedout.net/mtg-decks/alesha-who-smiles-at-death-and-staxes-primer/

[@dyl0wned]

I can think of several decent white card-advantage/draw cards: dawn of hope, revitalize, Kenrith, Teshar, Feather (Boros but boros has the same issues), Sram, Mentor of the meek, militia bugler, Inspiring Commander, defiant strike, shelter, and Puresteel Paladin.

[@midnightlemon4255]

Card idea: 1/1 creature for 1WW When this creature enters the battlefield, choose an opponent with more lands than you. Search your library for a basic plains and put it into play unless that player sacrifices a land.

[@tomjackal5708]

i,, this is even worse than white cards that already exist gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=398594

[@rastrisfrustreslosgomez544]

Midnight Lemon nice design! I think we can push it a little more. Im thinking of giving it Titan triggers so it proccs when it ETB or attacks

[@GamerdevilPro]

@@tomjackal5708 yeah agreed. That card is overcosted for that effect, has a too small body and is too narrow (opp needs more lands than you - won't happen when you are on the play and "basic plains" is super narrow) White needs to be pushed more in general.

[@Gab8riel]

How is that not ten times worse than knight of the white orchid? It costs WW, is 2/2 with first strike and it searches non basic plains.

[@triggeredcheeseburger932]

Just want to say, it's very nice to find a magic content creator who's very easy on the eye

[@corinelliott3596]

Preach it, brother.

[@richardadams7667]

I run the circle in my mono white commander deck (Djeru with Eyes Open) and it's a lot of fun, but just because almost all my action spells are legendary walkers...so yeah...it's seriously narrow.

[@darylchiu9030]

Teferi's Protection is so busted in Commander that it immediately became one of its most expensive staples.

[@latrodectusmactans7592]

Well, that and it's also horrifically under printed.

[@dyl0wned]

I can think of several decent white card-advantage/draw cards: dawn of hope, teshar, revitalize, Sram, Mentor of the meek, militia bugler, Inspiring Commander, defiant strike, stone forge mystic, shelter, and Puresteel Paladin. But then again, that’s it.

[@jacobjohnson6384]

The monarch mechanic should have been brought back in elderaine.

[@apanapane]

Interesting viewpoint there on Rhystic Study. I had not considered that. My spontaneous thought is that I agree with you.

[@TheChrisl214]

Amonket Gideon? Not exactly setting any format on fire, admittedly.

[@PalPlays]

It saw play in Modern before Jace was unbanned.

[@seow5872]

He forgot felidar guardian

[@justinwinterspear]

One place thing that I've heard that might be a good place for white is Planeswalkers. No other color does anything with Planeswalkers specifically except a few odd cards here and there, and whites idea of Loyalty fits with the mechanics of Planeswalkers. Stuff like Djeru from Amonket. Extra loyalty, they take less damage Tutors, reward for activating loyalty abilities

[@markusrows1096]

Let's face IT, when magic was created, every imagined core mechanic that white was supposed to have , was busted and after they realized, they can't print things like they did for white, they never found a permanent ever-returning cool mechanic for white.

[@seandouglass9824]

I'd really like to see white getting a different type of card draw like red does, possibly some enchantments that exile multiple cards from the top of your deck and you can play those cards as long as you still have the enchantment

[@seandouglass9824]

Or put a tax effect on the card like an opponent can pay 3 and you cant play cards exile under or something

[@elizarodrigez1992]

I only started a couple years ago, but when I think of white I've never thought of weenies or life gain. It was always taxes, flickering, and removal. Choosing to focus on "toll gate" effects like Rhystic would probably give white a bigger presence.

[@CapePlaysGames]

I really like White’s identity in Pauper, specifically with regards to cards like Kor Skyfisher, Glint Hawk, and Thraben Inspector. They’re white wheenies, but they have the ability to give some card advantage in the long game, and two of them are format defining fliers. I’d like investigate as an evergreen ability for white too.

[@serenastieveling]

I hate tithe in Cmdr. Its because it's not used in mono white like it was intended but makes multi-color even more explosive... and... I run a locust God wheels n deals deck so... x.x

[@colinhofer7830]

white had a 2/1 savanna lion at rare back in the day and now it needs a one drop 2/1 or 2/2 with first strike or to keep up with other creatures.

[@ryanoutram7059]

Affinity for auras or affinity for equipment could be fun? White has some good auras and can make great use of equipment, but auras can be too risky, and equipment can be too cumbersome. Something to strengthen those card types in White might help, and I think it fits quite well into White's identity too.