How Did We End Up With Oko, and the future of bans? A Modern MTG Discussion - WOTC PLZ

[@ClexYoshi]

you forgot Paradox Engine and Iona in Commander.

[@Amouat2000]

Yo-Oko oh-no

[@fidly4]

He listed unbannings as well, so don't forget Painter's Servant.

[@patrioticmarine7445]

Isn’t Winter Orb way worse than Paradox Engine?

[@trdl23]

patrioticmarine This sounds like someone who has never played against Paradox Engine

[@Jonathan-qk5ed]

@@patrioticmarine7445 Winter Orb is never a problem as long as you build a deck with good resilience.

[@Jack-Lack]

"And that might be a bi-product of bad things, like not enough testing." Well, Oko is the bi-product of someone not realizing the obvious fact that you shouldn't put a 3-mana spell (i.e. Beast Within) on a +1 ability of a 3-mana planeswalker. It totally violates the conventional wisdom of how you should price loyalty abilities on planeswalkers. On 3-mana planeswalkers, a +1 loyalty ability should give you an effect that might be found on a bad 1-mana card, or worse. Possibly the second strongest +1 ability on all 3-mana planeswalkers is on Dack Fayden, who gives you Careful Study, which is a 1-mana spell that is good in certain decks. One of the next best +1 abilities on a 3-mana planeswalker is the -2/-1 ability on Liliana the Last Hope, which is worse than Disfigure. If you're going to put a 3-mana effect on a planeswalker, you could price it at -2 loyalty (and then it would be one of the best -2 loyalty abilities ever printed on a 3-mana planeswalker), or you could price it at -3 loyalty (and then it would be kind of mediocre). So this was just a bad designer who has no grasp of how to balance cards. You don't need playtesting when the design itself grotesquely violates a basic principal of balanced design (I mean, this ability was undercosted by 4 loyalty, not even just 1 or 2 or 3).

[@PleasantKenobi]

This is a very succinct and well thought out response. I've not considered comparing the abilities to spells to understand whether they are balanced or not. I'll look to adopt this approach going forward. I'll shout you out in the next discussion video if this comes up. :)

[@Jack-Lack]

​@@PleasantKenobi Well, then, keep this in mind: there is a different efficiency standard for planeswalker abilities at each mana cost. For instance, on a 3-mana planeswalker, a -2 ability should equate to a 1.5-mana spell (Liliana of the Veil gives you Cruel Edict, Domri Anarch gives you Prey Upon). On a 4-mana planeswalker, a -2 ability should equate to a 2-mana spell (Ajani Vengeant gives you Lightning Helix). On a 5-mana planeswalker, a -2 ability should equate to a 3-mana spell (Elspeth Tirel gives you Spectral Procession). On a 6-mana planeswalker, a -2 ability should equate to a 3.5-mana spell (Chandra Flame's Fury gives you the similarly-named spell Chandra's Fury). So the higher the planeswalker's CMC, the better should be the ratio between an ability's effect and its loyalty cost.

[@mistriousfrog]

To me it just felt like a designer forgot to put "until end of turn" on the end of the card before it went to print but nobody wanted to admit it.

[@JDogminecraftman]

@@mistriousfrog with how it works with the king's story it wouldn't make sense for it to be a till end of turn is my one problem with thinking this.

[@ig7398]

Pongify is 1 mana FWIW.

[@zakbraverman]

Saying "We didn't think people would use the Beast Within ability on opponent's stuff" is like saying "Sorry officer, I didn't see that stop sign because I was taking a swig from this here vodka bottle." You might think it's a reasonable reason or excuse, but it raises more serious, fundamental questions about your competence.

[@barkerm9]

Maybe, just maybe the design team is not very good, and maybe, just maybe, the “magic community” is so small and incestuous that nobody who WotC is willing to listen to is willing to bite the hand that feeds them, maybe...

[@stylesheetra9411]

That is what happen after years of dickriding I prefer mtg, but how the hell the ygo community helped to fix the game and we cant Pw are bullshit like they were 10 years ago and still people defend them, meanwhile shitty mechanics in ygo are fixed after 2 years max

[@eavyeavy2864]

Bad analogy. Try again. And you 2 who replies are just too pesimistic.

[@kaseybennett7415]

@@eavyeavy2864 not trying to call you out or anything (especially so long after this was posted) but I'd like to ask what exactly is "bad" about the analogy and why this is "too pessimistic" considering the horrendous and unforgivable mistakes that have come out of the design team over the past...3-4.

[@andrewg9216]

This is just something i learned locally with some weirdish testing. One of the players mocked up a "fixed" Oko that had the +1 as a -1 and the +2 as a +1. The result of the testing was that Oko was still really really good, but no longer so good that it was untouchable, the reduced loyalty meant that aggro decks could actually hurt it when it came down quickly. We also tested a version of Oko as a 4 CMC (2GB) but without changing his abilities. The result of that was that Oko was still broken even when coming down as late as turn 4 or 5. Granted its a small sample size (like 3 weeks, with 30 people proxing all the top decks and anything we could brew up)

[@jeremmeee]

It's really cool that you guys do this kind of thing! Honestly, I wish my group had the time to do similar.

[@ximoklim]

Kudos to you guys for your hard work... work that WotC should have done before releasing this abomination.

[@profanemagic5671]

Since he was spoiled, i was like "yeah, that +1 is a missprint, it should be -3" and it seems i was kind of right :D

[@GamerdevilPro]

@@profanemagic5671 I still think that -1 and +1 would have been the way to go, you could bring him up to "ult" loyalty that way but he would die while doing so and if you would elk an opposing creature the turn he comes down he would die to the crackback if you don't block the elk.

[@profanemagic5671]

+2 and -3 would have made it so he is still beefy at 6 if you want food, he goes down to 1, just as T3Feri does + it goes into a pattern of "2 turns food into 1 turn elk" and has a kind-of-special-case of being able to ultimate the turn after hittingthe board AND living after. Wich would have been....fine. A good card. Not as utterly broken as he is now. But i see points to -1+1 as well.

[@isnanesavant]

I'm so glad I got a hello from the puppy at the start. It makes surviving oko worth it.

[@DeepCDiva]

Man, seeing Ferocidon in the same list as powerhouses such as Jace, Stoneforge Mystic, Marvel and Oko is so funny. You have all these massive powerhouses that would define archetypes and be hard-hitters in eternal formats and... a little dino.

[@seb_yt6695]

tbh: that card was a non-factor anyways and would'Ve given red only mroe tools. I also was a bit suprised when they banned it, but I did not really miss it. (Except the times I lost to March of the Multitudes)

[@Fish-vs6jf]

Ferocidon was the straw that broke the camel's back. Everything else was an anvil falling from outer space on the camel.

[@C0urne]

Wasn't the dino clearly banned for the sins of Hazoret?

[@fidly4]

Fun Fact: Ferocidon is the only card ever to be unbanned in standard.

[@TheShinyFeraligatr]

Honestly, I think the card was a mistake, but only because somehow it allowed Red to get a 3/3 Menace for 2R with upside, which... I guess is just a thing it can do now? But then they made Bonecrusher Giant so yeah, silly me, 2R now gets you Green level creatures.

[@brunopereira6789]

"It's a fucking meme at this point that 2019 was bad, and that we're all looking forward to 2020 being a better year [...]" Well that didn't age well

[@PalPlays]

I'm so glad that Leffen is banned in Modern, Pioneer, Standard, and Brawl.

[@DeepCDiva]

"Leffen is banned in Brawl" made this funnier than it should lol

[@PalPlays]

@@DeepCDiva I hadn't even realized that. Leffen is FINALLY banned in Brawl.

[@danshesafighterholdhertigh609]

PalPlays wait what did leffen do to get banned from brawl?

[@PalPlays]

@@danshesafighterholdhertigh609 Oko is Leffen. Seriously, look at that art.

[@agent0fartifice571]

Now I can't unsee this. Thank you

[@robinett74]

”2019 is bad” ”We are all looking forward to 2020”. Wow this aged poorly.

[@BOFH_]

There's an easy solution: Unban Oko so he can Elk the entire year and get this over with already.

[@llamasmatter5972]

Hi I’m from the future, it aged like milk

[@ClexYoshi]

okay, this is by and far my favorite video you've done. i think it's because you aren't trying to be an energetic memelord and we get to see the introspective side of you that usually only gets to live on Dies to Removal instead of just being an endless memelord. Also, your pupper is a cutie. Maybe he too will grow up to hose graveyard strategies.

[@Dalenthas]

PK: I've got my puppy here, he's wandering around the office looking for... Me: Something to pee on. PK: ... treats or something.

[@erikwiseman1702]

Ha! Then "Your very lick-y...and you smell like piss..."

[@pairot01]

Forget about eternal formats bans, ever since Kaladesh there's been bans in standard every set. I don't have any confidence on the design team anymore, wotc was even supposed to have now a play test dedicated team but I just don't think they do, how can this pass through the cracks if they did?

[@plaguedr8831]

Next chase mythic: "Opal, Crowned Lattice"

[@williamwalsh4743]

It's basically just urza with removal at that point

[@robinhail3292]

Oko, Mox Lattice

[@flametitan100]

If I recall, there was a statement from play design that what happened was effectively the same thing that you were describing at 22:57 His original design was going to be based around stealing permanents, but they ran into issues of that being even more oppressive and unfun in Standard, so they changed it to the Elking ability and didn't have time to properly playest it as a result.

[@pairot01]

Do they design cards a week before printing them? These sets are often in development 6 months in advance!

[@OneoftheVoice]

@@pairot01 actually some longer then that, Melissa said the last time she had tested TBD was 8-9 months ago. But a late stage changes can derail proper testing time. The team is small and they have to test and balance the limited game and the standard and future standard meta. Any they are humans.

[@pairot01]

@@OneoftheVoice Honestly, limited should be very low in their priority list considering how bad the standard situation has been in the past few blocks. And I'd assume the poster boy pushed 3 mana planeswalker should be near the top of the testing list as well. There is no excuse for this, frankly I'm disappointed no one was laid off for this situation. Show the design and testing team their their actions (or inaction in the case of testing) have consequences, disuade them from letting something so egregious pass through.

[@Ritokure]

So it's "just a beater without evasion" all over again. (for those unaware, that was the single, infamous line used to describe Tarmogoyf by WotC before dropping its cost all the way down to 1G without testing)

[@tomjackal5708]

​@@pairot01 I don't want limited to suck or you to ever be in a position of power if you think throwing people away at random because you gave your team not enough resources and time is how to run a playtest team

[@TrampyPulsar]

Playtesters: Oh cool we can turn food into elks! Everyone else: +1 BEAST WITHIN ON A 3 MANA PLANESWALKER?!

[@latrodectusmactans7592]

When I first saw Oko, I actually misevaluated him for the opposite reason; I thought he was very good because his +1 was removal but forgot how it can also protect him.

[@wardm4]

When turn 2 burn 5 to blue Planeswalker hate card can't even kill it, you know you've done something wrong.

[@ryanedwards7487]

The sad thing is that Oko, The Trickster is SUCH a well-designed card (the one from the Planeswalker Deck). I have no idea why they made this version so ludicrously overpowered. It makes me wonder why they never learn anything from any Mirrodin block ever.

[@ashyoung7128]

Walker deck oko is so much more interesting

[@latrodectusmactans7592]

I really wish Oko the Trickster was costed for competitive play. Copying a creature is a damn cool effect.

[@pairot01]

Card from Planeswalker decks are bad by design, you don't want to have a guaranteed copy of a tier 1 card in a product, stores will hoard the product and sell it at several times the MSRP. This is what happened with a precon deck in Zendikar that had a fetchland in it.

[@ryanedwards7487]

@@pairot01 Planeswalker deck cards aren't "bad". Rowan is fantastic, and her win condition gives you a reason to protect her for 4 turns to get there. But, they are inferior to the other Planeswalker cards in the set because they aren't random. Oko, The Trickster is pretty darn awesome really, he just can't do all the degenerate tactics Thief of Crowns can do that totally broke the game.

[@pairot01]

@@ryanedwards7487 How many of these planeswalkers have been in a deck with good results?

[@commandante6709]

Pyroblast in modern would've helped a lot... A format where Cryptic Command is the best counter clearly doesn't have the tools to deal with Oko.

[@GodwynDi]

And that Oko immediately ticks up out of Fry range, so red has no spells short of 6 mana to deal with a 3 drop.

[@santaclauseking]

@@GodwynDi That is probably what pisses me off the most about Oko, it's ridiculous. I wish he started at 2 loyalty as well.

[@ilovenubz]

"Because you can't get banned in vintage". Oh how 2020 has made that a cute statement.

[@kappadoom]

Banning in eternal formats have kept me out of them in the past. I was really into pod when it was in standard, running a bant pod list. Then when it rotated I upgraded it to be modern playable. Then after getting the remaining pieces I think I got to use if for just a few months, which is not long when I only go out to play once every week or so, before it was banned. Sad, I took time off modern. I remember at the time wondering why, as right before that I saw it less in top 8 list than twin but it still got the axe. Eventually i built it as nic fit with pod in legacy, while not the same it still captures some of what I liked. Then I moved on to building twin, as it seemed like a fun deck, only to have it banned out as well. Needless to say, I know only build modern decks that are so off the radar, tier 3 or so, that I don't feel confident to run them in tournaments but I have something if a buddy wants to jam some modern games. The banning essentially killed the format for me. I understand there purpose and do not argue here that cards like this shouldn't be, but as someone with a family, including 3 kids, my budget for this expensive hobby is very limited..I cant afford to jump from deck to deck in an eternal format. Especially when the banned cards loose all value, and often other cards only associated with that deck. I don't know a better solution here, but it still does suck to be left with an unplayable deck you spent tons to get.

[@brendanbabin6315]

This is a tad bit disingenuous. 1.) Yes, cards lose a percentage of monetary value, but they don't become stock rares in a pile. 2.) A deck with a banned card still have cards of value and playability. Pod became Coco. It just operates in a different capacity with all of its cards remaining the same and even getting upgrades. Urza will still be a deck to the player who put down the time to refine it again. It just won't be as sturdy or as value-engine'd as it had with Oko or as fast as a Mox'd deck. 3.) You might do well by listening to the feedback of the professional players who commentate on the game's state. You walk away from Pod only to try and pick up a deck that might have been, if not more criticized, than Pod? That's not bad luck. That's poor homework skills.

[@druidobianco9734]

If you just wanna play extra powerhouse decks that abuses broken cards, yeah banning can be a problem for you

[@nalsium2828]

Where where you when stoneforge mystic unbanned I was hung over in hotel when phone ring "stoneforge mystic is liv" "yes"

[@williamwalsh4743]

Golden comment

[@brendanbabin6315]

You sound like you were still hung over when you wrote this comment.

[@DeeJaysWord]

Imagine in an alternate universe we would have hogaak getting elk'ed by Oko in 2020.

[@FrowningTable]

Oko would’ve crushed hogaak

[@rothbox]

I think this is actually a very good look at the some of the design issues that are currently happening. Mistakes are going to happen, but to me it feels like WOTC is pushing cards so hard now to keep players incentivized to stick around, that so many mistakes are being let through the cracks. I get their stance, but am ok with them slowing down a little.

[@elijahdprophet]

One of my favorite videos of yours, and not just for the puppy. I think the dive into historical bannings and the look back on the Oko spoiler reactions was super informative. I also appreciated the wrap up mentioning the financial cost. Good even handed commentary on an issue that seems like it may just continue to get worse.

[@sychovandalgaming]

Great points on everything! I agree that there is a heavy real world cost for bannings for a lot of people. Personally, I was playing UWR Twin in modern and had the entire deck foiled, expedition shocks/fetches and totally how I liked it. Then, three weeks after I bought the last card for the deck... Twin got banned. It really killed my motivation to play paper magic and I haven't really gotten back into it since then. I own a legacy deck still because I already owned it at the time, but I haven't played it but twice since then. I mostly stick to MTGO since most cards are relatively affordable there. Vs the almost $4000 I spent on my Twin deck. I ended up losing about $1300 on it when I sold it off after the banning and that didn't feel good at all. The worst part about it, and the reason I still don't play much paper magic is because they turned around and printed things like Hogaak and Oko after banning Twin. After those monstrosities, Twin really doesn't look all that powerful at all. Kinda makes me think why they banned it in the first place. I know their reasons, but they just don't seem good enough because there was quite a bit of counter play to Twin. Way more than for Hogaak for example. Hogaak could power through tons of graveyard hate and still T2/3 you relatively consistently. Twin, never won before T4 (unless playing green or some weird simian spirit guide version?). That seems pretty balanced to me these days. Idk, overall I guess my point is, bannings killed my interest in paper magic. Still love the game, but I stick to online versions due to it being slightly more affordable on average and less painful when a card I play with gets banned. Likely won't be returning to paper magic any time soon. P.s. sorry for the rant, this just seemed like a solid place to air my grievances with WotC about banning my all-time favorite deck.

[@redwizard9430]

“2019 was bad and we’re all looking forward to 2020 being a better year” ouch

[@LuizOMenudo]

19:15 they're getting attacked by an elk as she explains the reasoning behind underestimating oko's +1. Poetic.

[@epv1001]

1. thank you for the content this is a great video and I enjoyed it. 2. I feel WOTC has the money to improve and expand the play design team but instead they have almost been blinded by how quickly they can make money on arena. I enjoy arena but the money they spend putting dragon pets and cosmetics in could instead be used to help keep the game balanced and have some better testing done. This may be caused by Hasbro but I'm just throwing a guess out there. 3. 2019 was pretty scary for eternal players. The tier 1 decks changed more than most people would like and it put a strain on a lot of people's wallets with the shifting meta that gets followed by bannings.

[@the_zealdeal5668]

All the bannings have made me hesitant to try formats other than commander. I want to get into Pioneer when THB drops, but I'm afraid that Uro is just going to get banned in a couple months.

[@SuperKrisco]

I think that is a reasonable fear. Maybe wait until the dust settles or build something that doesn't need Uro?

[@awildeep]

The risk is WAY too high for Pioneer for me. My only Modern deck I've had for years just got banned out from under me, so why bother investing in a pipe dream?

[@tomjackal5708]

@@dingdongs5208 expensif

[@theionian]

I think you nailed it on this, especially with confidence in the market statements. As a student, I'm very budget-tight when it comes to Magic. I came back because friends were saying how Guilds of Ravnica was so good. I have slowly been losing that good feeling more and more, set by set, because cards that are 'decee' are being overshadowed by these powerful cards. So I went to Pauper and Modern, and then MH1 happened with the 'Gak. I'm honestly not sure I want to invest in Pioneer at this point because how last year went..

[@Zetimenvec]

EDH is the superior format. The games are always more interesting and the investment opportunity cost against bannings is extremely low. The singleton nature of it also means that in the rare instance that a card of yours does see a ban, it generally won't make a deck completely non-viable anymore.

[@Arttano]

Just FYI, barrinmw is known for having a really weird scale when it comes to card evaluation. IIRC his scale has been explained as 0/10 being draft chaff and 10/10 being power 9, so 2/10 for modern is actually quite high for him and effectively means that he thought it would likely find a home. Still an underestimation but not do the degree you make it out to be.

[@Sugarman96]

Don't forget that he's almost never right in his evaluations.

[@AricHaldan0782]

interesting facts, but his scale being weird in general doesn't mean it's not wrong in this case though. It just means he's wrong most of the times.

[@TheMajinV]

He's pretty much a meme, a bit of an annoying one for me anyway.

[@aem472]

@@Sugarman96 I mean, other than all the 0's he gives out. Easy to have a 90% hit rate when 90% of cards are a 0 on your scale.

[@StonedVorlon]

u/barrinws's predictions are also meme fuel for r/magicthecirclejerking. I wouldn't be surprised if they play into that a bit.

[@rowdyredfred]

I’m one of those people you talked about being burned by the Mox Opal ban. I looked at affinity over the years and liked that it was stable, invested into the deck and got hardened scales set up as a variant (got most parts before that set) then haven’t been able to play because of general life events. Now I’m just watching the decline of my investment into my Mox Opal playset.

[@ausrick7]

rowdyredfred If they keep this up, the only home for robots of any kind is going to be legacy and vintage. I haven’t seen pushed artifacts since Kaladesh.

[@angrybadger121]

I cry for Affinity

[@awildeep]

R.I.P. Affinity. You were the only deck I ever wanted to play in Modern. Your passing leaves a void in my heart, and my playgroup.

[@loganschlatre2579]

I really enjoy these types of videos. They feel serious in nature which allows viewers to better grasp the topic and your point of view, but you add in little nuggets of humor that keep things lite and interesting. Some of the best Magic content out there!

[@buzzsaiyan]

Thank you for the vid, Vince! I invite you to the MTG Affinity Page on FB to witness how 3000 players just lost their favourite deck... How is wotc honestly looking to keep a player base at this rate?

[@PedanticTwit]

Oko is a perfect example of the problem of "in-house play testing". No one on the team thought to use Oko as pseudo-removal, because everyone on the team already knew that the +1 was for turning your own stuff into 3/3s. When they tested it, that's what they did. And this happens all the time with use-tests. People involved in the design go into testing with a notion of how a thing is to function, and that's how they use it-that's _only_ way they use it. In order to get valuable use/play testing, you have to involve _people who are unfamiliar with whatever's being tested._ Here's another example from a WotC product: D&D 3.x. In earlier editions of the game, it was basically _known_ that in combat you had your Fighter stand up front while your Wizard threw fireballs and your Cleric healed. So during the playtesting of 3.x, that's how the playtesters played, not taking into account the changes that had been made to the classes, the spells, and the system as a whole. The end result was that the Wizard players used _magic missile_ and _fireball_ while the Cleric players used _cure light wounds_ and _cure serious wounds._ They largely ignored the most effective spells for each and therefore the most effective strategies for each. No Wizards focused on battlefield control and save-or-dies; no Clerics, self-buffs and out-fighting the Fighter (while still having all those utility spells). Thus we ended up with the "god Wizard" and "CoDzilla". *tl;dr:* Always, _always_ have your playtesting done by people who are not familiar with the game, or at the very least not privy to the design process.

[@ianlarson9611]

I have a couple ideas on the set production and power level leading to bannings. I honestly have been so frustrated with the direction the productions of sets seem to have been going. While it’s nice that there’s more sets each year, sometimes it feels like we’re being rushed through each one so we can’t stop and reflect on them. That’s slightly separate from the power level considerations. I got into magic in middle school about the time Innistrad came out. At the time I didn’t know how good of a set it was, and I just played with my other middle school friends with basically starter decks and a booster pack or two a week. Now that I pay more attention, I know that that set contained many powerful cards that became staples in modern. Some of it felt like it was new design space, others were trying to make the mechanics stand out. Now it feels like a lot of the power comes from pushed creature stats and added keywords. Games feel like drag races when there isn’t enough interaction. When new interaction is implemented, it feels oppressive, like t3feri or veil. It’s as though the design is trying to up the power level of both control and creatures, but they don’t match up well for balance and games feel all or nothing. This might also be part of the London mulligan. Additionally, the introduction of Pioneer after the destruction caused to modern kind of irks me. WotC must have had some idea that Pioneer was coming, so felt they had free reign over designing cards straight into modern. Powering up modern with new cards seems fine, but the timing of it all makes it seem like not enough thought about how destructive these new cards would be to the formats with broken cards. I’m not saying there’s a conspiracy to make modern bad or anything so people go to pioneer, but rather that the optics on dumping some seemingly undertested cards into a format that will soon have competition doesn’t come across well. Personally, I was trying to get into modern after horizons came out, and I was actually kinda hype about lightning skelemental and was building an 8ball deck, and finished putting it together the day before the looting ban. I understand the need given historic graveyard synergies, but it still is a massive feel-bad and I no longer want to try to buy into formats for fear that things will get banned out from under me. Sorry if my ideas didn’t come out well, or I seem uninformed, I just needed to rant a bit and this seemed like the best place to voice my opinion. Love the content Vince, especially your discussions about cards or the game as a whole!

[@Sethsters]

Big picture: The frequent bannings give the impression that WotC is a bumbling group lacking in non-anxious leadership. This impression (valid or not) is eroding the trust between WotC and its players. If this continues, the game will eventually die.

[@tablekun8690]

Ok des

[@crono252]

Only in some formats, some people are saying it'll turn into another yugioh with a monthly banlist rotation

[@crono252]

@@sadrobot5501 you're right sorry I played yugioh like 4 years ago I got tired of the constant power creep and how people just kept dumping more and more money for it

[@sebastianchaca00]

lol people never get tired of saying that the game will die

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

Isn’t it equally moronic for long periods of time to go on and Wotc doesn’t ban cards? Because that’s exactly what happened with affinity. They set it fester and by the time it was dealt with, it was too late and you saw a massive exodus of players from standard.

[@DeadBuiltLikeGoblinLackey]

Honestly this is the reason why i generally just play cmdr. Like I feel much more secure when I buy/trade for expensive cards for commander because stuff gets banned once in a blue moon. I got many issues with the cmdr rc but I do like their "hands off" approach to banning cards which is possible because cmdr is a different beast to other formats.

[@randalica92]

Meanwhile im running my BR Goblins and sideboarding the shit out of my local meta. Things can get rough once my Titan Shift opponent faces a 14 power Piledriver and his gang.

[@riotron1026]

I feel like that’s more of a player issue. If one pays attentions to the buzz of certain cards and know what can potentially become broken by the player base why invest in it if you’re gonna complain when it actually gets hit? It makes little sense and if someone invests in broken cards and there’s buzz around a possible banning then get rid of them beforehand. It’s that simple.

[@C00kiesAplenty]

@@riotron1026 Get rid of them to who though? Someone has to buy them, and that someone will get screwed over when the card gets banned and it's value drops.

[@mees8711]

And usually cards that get banned aren't usually crazy expensive either. Nor do they make out a significant price percentage of the deck, since it's singleton. Thus the emotional response isn't so extreme.

[@MrOfTheSea]

The only reason the RC has a hands off approach is because they refuse to try and police the format. They leave deck balance up to individual play groups. Thats why any actual commander tournaments are mostly dominated by blue and/or black decks and the same cards go into every competitive deck. Commander is a broken format, it's just expected that play groups will fix it for themselves and to their individual liking.

[@mullac0107]

Sort of related: Pretty Deece (TCGPlayer, presented by Jon Corpora) did a video about mana costs called "If It Looks Too Hard to Cast, It Probably Isn't". He talked about Goblin Chainwhirler in the RB aggro deck of that standard, but mentions other wacky multicolored decks of the part. Worth the watch imo, and gives some good insight as to how hard to cast a card really is.

[@ScepticalAgnostic]

Anyone designing magic who thinks that a restrictive mana cost can cover for a broken card needs to have the decklists for Cloudthresher Cruel Ultimatum decks stapled to their computer screen

[@latrodectusmactans7592]

That video wasn’t great. Goblin Chainwhirler has a restrictive mana cost unless you want to play a mostly Red or mono-Red deck. During its stint in standard, it was only played in mono-Red or mostly Red decks. The only time mana cost outright doesn’t matter is when the lands or mana fixing are too strong. Fetchlands, Reflecting Pool + Vivids, Aether Hub, and most recently Arcum’s Astrolabe are what cause mana restrictions to stop mattering.

[@CharlieDebts]

The banning of gush, probe and daze completely obliterated pauper. My area(RVA) hasn't had a pauper event fire since.

[@FlashKillerX]

To be fair those 3 cards did make blue a must play color in the format. Unfortunately a lot of blue decks needed those cards but other colors do better now

[@CharlieDebts]

Unfortunately, all those blue players left the format instead of building new decks, and I'm more upset at them than the actual bannings.

[@FlashKillerX]

Charlie's PlayStation some players only play one kind of deck, and I find blue players are more often that player than people who play other colors or archetypes

[@NatesiKness]

I feel like if his +1 would have been a -1 the card would have had no issues whatsoever. OR The card had a higher cmc. But yaknow Imagine if Elespeth Sun's Champion only cost W2

[@NatesiKness]

You know what I just wanted to come back and elaborate too that I'm actually one proponent of the new pushed meta. Cards that reverberate through all eternal formats as well as dominating standard, if broken and annoying, at least are INTERESTING. I've enjoyed the recent pushed sets, shaken-up formats and powerful utility that magic has injected into the entirety of the game, even if it's brutal on everyone's wallets and shits on the secondary market.

[@GrimoireM]

UG2 would still be stupid in all formats, but slow enough to be safe in eternal ones aside from Pioneer maybe. Any higher and you would only play him in eternal formats if you thought Bant Control was a good idea at the time.

[@NatesiKness]

GrimoireM Exactly. I do believe he was designed with eternal formats in mind. At his current cmc, I think if his Beast Within was a -1 it would have been a much more appropriate power for each format it was played and we'd still see him frolicking about in-game 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@kiyan5340]

Honestly if you reduce all of his loyalty abilities and the counters he enters with by 1, he would've still been powerful but not broken. So like... +1: food 0: elk -6: swap Enters with 3

[@NatesiKness]

Kiyan Pardakhti While I agree that is classically more balanced in power for a 3cmc Walker, it would then sit in the back catalog of standard cards that never made it outside of standard. Either way though he's currently banned out of existence and won't see play anyways 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@michaelwilliams8387]

I find it really disappointing that the reaction a lot of people I know to Theros is that they're not as excited to buy it as its got less powerful cards so the value is less. Which I can get, because resale of cards is a thing (damn capitalism), but it only serves to create a vicious cycle where wizards/hasbro push cards to sell sets more to encourage sales...which I can only see as one of the leading causes of cards like Oko. (inb4 this comment looks dumb in four months when a card from the set turns out to be bust as shit over and above the Heliod/WB combo)

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

There’s like 10 different powerful cards. The fuck are people on about?

[@starnik]

I'd be very surprised if Underworld Breach doesn't eat a ban in Legacy and other formats, as it is a cheaper version of Yawgmoth's Will in a color that is good at filling the graveyard and mana-generating rituals.

[@commonsense9173]

Cards take up space, people don't use 100 percent of their cards. Of course people don't want their unused cards to be a waste of money. It IS being pushed to its limit as of now though

[@augustobs24]

God forbid people want to resale their card. Isn't the market so awful guys? I'd rather stay with cardboard I don't want to use on my deck and lose the ability to recoup some of my money.

[@michaelwilliams8387]

@@augustobs24 I'm not saying it's wrong to want to, but it definitely drives Wizards towards pushing sets, as sets with broken cards are the ones worth resale value.

[@ErosionCorrosion]

Absolutely nailed it about bannings pulling down confidence in magic. I haven't even had cards in my decks banned but all the powerhouse cards that have been coming out only to be banned is tiring to play around. Hogaak was a pain to play against and after it finally got a ban I hoped I could play in a reasonable format again. Then Urza and Oko started doing more busted stuff before bannings. After a while you have to question how much time you're going to spend just waiting for the newest broken card to be banned before you can enjoy magic again.

[@SuperKrisco]

I've been running affinity for six years, and playing since 2003. Yesterday's banning of Opal is the first time I've ever seriously questioned if I want to keep playing.

[@Clicker150]

Are you me?

[@jeremmeee]

As always, well thought out video. I love the videos that are more like podcasts and less play-focused, and generally I always agree with your opinions on what you are talking about. Hope you feel better, and give the pup all the pets!

[@labineboy2876]

2020 being a better year, oh happy times, simpler times

[@justincolussy-estes8447]

You may feel under the weather, but this editorial (?) is super sharp and nuanced. Kudos, and thanks!

[@redstonepro5412]

i think oko was tested in a weaker version (maybe his cost was sultai, or he could just turn your stuff into elks) and last minute changed it, like skullclamp

[@CraftyChicken91]

If that is the case what will make them learn to not do last minute changes?

[@redstonepro5412]

@@CraftyChicken91 hopefully

[@ScepticalAgnostic]

I really like this style of video - a measured look at the world of MTG. I sadly did not enjoy a lot of Eldraines design and am very nervous about this year with how the story is being handled but I will stick around and hope it gets better.

[@punchbug]

I liked playing against Oko, it made me really push my decks to be fast, controlling, and for me away from my very very Set playing style with Mono Black. Also Kim glad it's banned so that I can have fun again with MTG, but jm glad he's so terrible, it helped me be a better player.

[@randalica92]

That's why I love Munitions Expert in my Gobbo deck

[@CalastantNight]

You say at the end your energy was low during this video. I don't think so, not at all. Great video. I would like more videos like this.

[@bahyurur6792]

I'm definitely sad to see Mox opal go. It's just a shame to see old powerful format Staples get banned out to make room for new cards.

[@sukeforth1]

I agree heavily when you stated "Banning of cards can kill your love for magic". I've been an artifact/affinity player for years. I love artifacts in general. And with the Mox Opal banning, it makes me worried where Affinity decks are going to land. Depending on how they shape up, could make me not wanna invest as heavily in the game as i have been. Or just stop playing modern altogether.

[@KingBobXVI]

I've had a KCI deck since around Alara block (I wanted to play with Time Sieve, lol) - KCI was never really a notable card until Scrap Trawler was printed, enabling all your artifacts to become little mini-myr-retrievers, so KCI got the axe. Ok, I thought, let's head off the grinding station/anvil wave, this should be fun - and it was neat, but again not particularly amazing. Then Urza gets printed and Opal gets banned as a result? Hm, now what can this pile of cards do? Ironically, the only thing I think I can do with it now is to fully shift it into an outright Urza deck, which I've resisted so far. Opal didn't make Urza good, Urza made Urza good, and I think he'll continue to dominate the meta to a degree. They just didn't want to ban the problem because it's a newer chase card still being opened in packs.

[@0rthogonal]

Mox Opal ban is nail in the coffin for it. They are barely Tier 3 now.

[@sukeforth1]

@@0rthogonal I can believe it. Sucks :/

[@ausrick7]

Green can ramp all day long and nobody bats an eye, but if your artifacts can ramp everyone loses their minds. I’m not complaining that opal wasn’t super powerful but there is a total lack of “fixed” opals or opal lites to choose from. It seems if you use colored mana wizards doesn’t want a rock to cost less than 3 and if you want colorless maybe they will let you have it for 2 so really you can’t use your rocks before turn 3-4 making them useless in modern. Most artifact centric decks aren’t trying to get a five drop early on 4. They are wanting to not die on turn 2 or 3. I’ve spent depressed hours on gatherer since the ban looking for substitutions and the best I can come up with is Everflowing Chalice. And we already know what Vince calls that card to not confuse it with the real chalice. ...meanwhile we have other decks consistently putting out 7 drops on turn 3. :(

[@Pltnmangel]

I feel like modern has hit a point where every big flagship card results in a round of bans, either that card or some of the ones around it. It used to be my favorite format, but I think it’s become so bloated (and still so light on answers) that we’ve lost a lot of old favorites because wizards can’t print an envelope-pushing card without breaking several others (which, modern being so answer-light, results in unfun decks being meta). I adore the weird designs of older cards like bridge from below, and modern was an awesome place to put them to use in novel ways. I wish pioneer had more interesting cards. Hopefully the future sets remedy that. It feels like there can only be one non rotating format- Legacy. Because time will fatten formats to the point of bursting as new things are printed, and everything will eventually becomes “legacy lite”

[@pairot01]

The problem is cards nowadays do everything by themselves. Look at Urza, it's a 1 card behemoth of advantage in every possible way. Gives you mana, gives you a token, gives you card advantage. Oko is very much the same, it singlehandedly wins games. Design should be more focused on PIECES coming together to make great decks or even an archetype.

[@abusus75]

what if they unban everything ?

[@pairot01]

@@abusus75 Have you read the card Blazing Shoal? Pair it with an infect creature.

[@DiogoVKersting]

I think they should make a policy of doing the pushed cards first, and "freezing" the design at a certain point, so there's plenty of time to test. I honestly feel like for Oko, they ended up changing something on the card on the last minute. Either that, or they really wanted a two deck standard of Golos/FotD versus Oko.

[@jayharyu927]

Liked for that specific delivery of ‘that’s a yikes from me’

[@Skylos]

9:02 "you can't get banned in Vintage" Lurris would like to have a word with you

[@darinvoight68]

I knew Oko was going to be good, probably format defining in Standard possibly leading to a ban depending on how good Food synergies were, but I didn't immediately realize just how good it was. Then the very first time I played with and against Oko, I IMMEDIATELY knew that the card was not ok, probably in any format. The first time you play against it, it is pretty obvious. It can deal with your best threat *every turn*, there's no realistic way you're attacking it down from 6 if it comes down on turn 2, and it wins the game on it's own pretty quickly. I find it hard to believe this got missed in development, something had to be changed at the last minute. There's no way any experienced player playtests this card as-is, and comes away thinking "Yeah, this is good".

[@pairot01]

I'm not even sure there is a dedicated play test team at this point

[@barkerm9]

I think you are ignoring the real possibility that the card was printed on purpose to be egregiously powerful in every format.

[@pairot01]

@@barkerm9 Sure, they really wanted to lose consumer confidence, make players not have fun, have to ban it in every format and then lie and say it was a design mistake. All according to plan!

[@barkerm9]

Joaquin Pirotto it’s not banned in every format. It was designed to be a standard defining card that would be playable in every format. I say that because of how innovative it is, how it was marketed and the fact it appears to be latest in the series of recently printed 3 cmc walkers that are good in every format (as a legacy curmudgeon, I feel I should at this point admit that I dislike almost all planes walkers). The new reality is that WotC doesn’t seem to care if cards get banned in standard. I agree they should care more, but printing cards that appeal to as many players as possible, which increasingly means commander players, seems to be their design goal now. In fact, I bet 6 months from now a lot more people will be angry and will have stepped away from the game because of the mox opal ban than because of Oko.

[@pairot01]

@@barkerm9 So you went from "egregiously powerful in every format" to "playable in every format". The two concepts are worlds apart.

[@BB-pn2qv]

EXCELLENT break down! Very impressed by how you covered this.

[@nicklittle8399]

25:40 This literally murdered my want to play modern entirely. I spent 6 months trying to get together a Bringevine deck. I had original altered Bridge From Belows, signed extended art Vengevines, sun bleached foil Faithless lootings, and the moment I got my last copy of BfB, they announced the ban of Faithless Looting. So I reworked it around burning inquiry, and Hogaak got BfB banned. I spent so much of my time and money working towards my first modern deck to have the rug pulled out from under me less than a week before I finished the thing. Honestly I think that if WotC prints a card that creates a broken and unfair deck around itself, they should ban THAT card. Not the enablers. Because so many different decks were taken out of modern other than bridgevine when Faithless Lootinf got hit. Mardu Pyromancer for example, collateral damage from Hogaak.

[@TheShinyFeraligatr]

Bridgevine isn't why they banned Looting. Most of the Hogaak decks barely played the thing. They banned it because of Dredge.

[@nicklittle8399]

@@TheShinyFeraligatr That's literally my point. They ban one card that carries a substantial amount of power in multiple decks instead of the problem card that makes that deck unbalanced. Hogaak got released, was the problem, but they banned BfB. Hogaak was still unfair until they banned him outright - which they should have done in the first place.

[@TheShinyFeraligatr]

@@nicklittle8399 "They ban one card that carries a substantial amount of power in multiple decks instead of the problem card that makes that deck unbalanced." ...but the card that made Dredge and Phoenix unbalanced - and they abso-fuckin-lutely were unbalanced, shit was bad even before Hogaak - was Faithless Looting. Looting had nothing to do with the Hogaak decks.

[@girlhunter2102]

It’s funny (and appreciated) that you bring up real world costs. I decided to read and discuss the bannings with my partner. All she took away from the conversation was that I had spent $470 on cards at one point in my life and that those cards will now be effectively worthless. Not only does this experience provide you with the viewpoint of a non-magic player but it also goes to show how the costs can go beyond monetary value and affect real world relationships as well.

[@skatebear7451]

I get it for Oko but why mox opal? It's very strong don't get me wrong, but just because they printed emry and the fudging urza the same year proved it to be too busted for modern.. (we'll see what urza can do with mox amber around the corner though. Still busted)

[@Robotoken-299]

I have been playing affinity since the reprinting of mox opal in mm15. It was a great deck up until war of the spark and modern horizons. It felt bad to play since the power increase from those sets and throne of eldraine/Oko did not help the situation. Now opal is banned in modern and I am now at an impasse at making another modern deck or just make a pioneer deck.

[@masonwright4199]

I like that Wotc has been willing to ban. I think we miss how important that is. For every modern player that lost because they just crafted the perfect oko deck there are plenty of people who had a good deck that became completely unplayable after its arrival. I like that they are pushing cards to make it into older formats while also being willing to cut back on ones that are too broken because I think it’s the only way to get things there. I think it’s pretty much impossible to consistently print cards that are exactly good enough to be playable while not too good that they break the game

[@christopherrue1773]

Not typically a fan of you but you have covered a ton of points in a succinct way. Thank you for the vid. Subbed btw

[@xandermarron6914]

This’ll probably get lost, but I have always had a soft spot for affinity, and had recently decided to save some money back for a proper deck, I got my four ravagers, I got my blink/inkmoths, and I was in the process of saving up my winter shoveling money to buy opals, and I just heard the news from you firsthand. Now ravager, blink and ink are tanking more than they already were. I mean, I feel like I just lost a lottery I didn’t even mean to enter. I feel hollow and cheated, honestly.

[@manarock3065]

Something similar happened to me. I sold my previous deck to buy the deck I've always wanted to play in Modern: affinity. I almost completed the deck (was missing just 2 Mox Opals) and was excited to play it... then this stupid ban (yes, it's stupid because Urza is the problem, not the Mox) happened :(

[@gareth4348]

Great review, looking back at this from another video of yours that mentioned it.

[@Frogunity]

It is a bit strange cause 2019 has been the year in which I enjoyed playing magic the most since I started playing in 2015... But the time I spent complaining about Oko cannot be forgotten or forsaken. That card is absurd and an horrible mistake. Most of all I feel it broke something between WotC and us players. Personally I don't think I trust WotC anymore when it comes to keeping the game healthy. Maybe Oko was the final drop in the bucket (as we say in France) of 4 years of bad card design...

[@GodwynDi]

They banned it pretty quickly. Mistakes do happen.

[@Frogunity]

@@GodwynDi while that is right and we should be giving WotC the right to make mistakes, a mistake of Oko's scale is quite problematic

[@JakeMC521]

I have also been playing since 2015 and this has been by far the worst year for magic for me in all regards including fun

[@alvm8174]

The thing is that it wasn't only oko, look field of the dead for example, banned in standard, banned in pioneer, now making waves into modern, they are pushing the cards to sell, and that just makes unhealthy formats until they get ride of the card, and the worst is they can't even print better answers instead of banning, like they don't even try to fix it, they just pull out the hammer

[@RagingRevine]

@@Frogunity It wasn't that Oko was just THAT good, they just didn't put anything in standard to actually deal with planeswalkers properly. Especially one of Oko's immediate 6 loyalty at 3 mana. There was no Abrupt decay or anything to stop him. And in Modern, unless you're playing Jund that has Aassassin's Trophy and Abrupt Decay, that 6 loyalty count needs 2 lightning bolts to kill while they still drew a card off the generated Food token. So it was too annoying to deal with there as well especially for the cost of the walker. Mistakes happen, it was just designer and those that reviewed misjudged that 3 CMC was just a BIT less than what he shiould have been, which was between 4-5.

[@MobyShtick]

Hey Boy, This is Moby from 4 months in the future, just here to say you’re a real cool cat. Thanks for all the enjoyable content.

[@nickkazmierczak5965]

All this uncertainty of formats is the reason I haven't bought back into magic. Modern used to be the format you could always play, but with the constant printing of broken cards and bannings it is nearly impossible to enjoy the game without giving it full attention. Or even if you try to play it theres such a high relearning curve to make it enjoyable.

[@lilfoxgod]

Loved the edit on the clicking, gave me a well needed chuckle.

[@IzzetRight]

Vince's sickness is actually Oko getting revenge by slowly elkifying Vince.

[@BlackwaterPark666]

01:20 "2019 was bad and we are all looking forward to 2020 being a better year." Watching this mid 2021: lol...

[@babyfoodgerber]

WOTC: Let’s keep banning staples out of a format and leaving more power vacuums then militant groups could fill in the middle east as other strategies from the format go away nothing is left to keep certain strategies in check so the whole meta devolves and players loose faith in the format as their favorite decks are banned out of existence repeatedly.

[@markusgiewald3809]

i guess if oko's +1 was a -1 instead it was a totally fine and still top tier card which was not bannable at all

[@Ryjarn]

RIP old-school Affinity, Modern will not be the same without you.

[@samkominowski6394]

At SCG Columbus, there was a huge poster on the wall of an elk looking over Columbus and it was so perfect!

[@jkattack2640]

As one of my friends said, when oko collects 6 infinity stones by being banned in 6 formats he'll just snap magic out of existence

[@MarkMYoung]

One paradigm shift I have supported for years is bans sometimes being a combination of cards (e.g., Thopter Assembly with Time Sieve, Felidar Guardian with Saheeli Rai, etc.). Did he mention Aetherworks Marvel?

[@Silas_MN]

You know what format is never hit with bans? Cube. Ergo, cube is the best format in magic.

[@ryanmalinowski7529]

I believe that the biggest gripe that players have against Wotc is the non-chalant attitude about the card bannings and lack of accountability when these cards end up getting banned. They have given (basically) a non-apology to these cards and that rubs people the wrong way when they spend so much time and money on the game. Oh well, that's a plus when you can't address the secondary market (even though they watch it closely when it comes to reprint equity for reprint or master sets)

[@ron7116]

It’s hard to invest in an “eternal” format when new pushed cards force established ones out. Besides urzatron, I can’t think of any deck since modern’s inception that has survived.

[@Bj-iw9wf]

Bogels has been around mostly unchanged, just some one ofs

[@Zetimenvec]

Just play EDH. It's the superior eternal format.

[@bshell1731]

Vince, your argument is very well thought out and well said. This is exactly the type of discourse we need that doesn't seem to occur often in the interwebs. I appreciate your moderate/compassionate approach to all parties involved. It raises the serious question: How does wizards balance their goals in terms of gaining new players while respecting the finances of eternal format players? Also, is it worth trying to push new archetypes if it means disabling older archetypes? (i.e. prison, affinity) I agree with your sentiment that wizards should think about the long game of their financial well being by investing more in play design. It might even be worth it for them to create a beta test that simultaneously allows a large player base to test new cards while slowly spoiling the possibilities of the new sets coming out. I imagine a possible trade off is losing hype and mystery which could translate to worse profits for new sets. However, I think it's entirely possible that players would be excited to invest in new decks that they have been able to try out before a set release. I also think that this would restore the player bases' confidence in Magic product. I'm not huge on anecdotal evidence but I for one have stopped buying new and old magic products out of fear that something expensive will get the banhammer. I imagine it's not too far fetched to say that there are probably others who have taken the same approach as me.

[@T_Peazy]

I think an "until your next turn" would have been fine.

[@michaelmitchell338]

Thomas Peace Or make it only your creatures and artifacts. Or make it a -2.

[@KingBobXVI]

That, or an "artifact or creature _you control_ " would have been fine. Also why even can it hit artifacts? If it just hit creatures only that would probably be good enough. So many ways to fix the issue, they basically just had to make it anything other than the way it is, lol.

[@pairot01]

Yes, especially because it's hard to mark an endless effect like that in paper magic.

[@thewifs.]

What is the music that starts at 9:59? Its very familiar and I know I've heard it before, but I can't recall where.

[@awildeep]

I had one modern deck: Affinity. It was not the best, but it was fun. Now I have zero modern decks, and I have zero interest in investing in another one. Modern is too god damn expensive, and Pioneer will get there soon enough. EDH and cube will be the only place I play anymore, and I think I need to add affinity to my cube now that my deck is not worth selling off. Bans suck. And even though I doubt anyone I played modern with would tell me I can't play, I feel like I am not welcome anymore at the modern table just because I like affinity, artifacts, and *that* is fun for me.

[@sergiosanmuahahaha]

I'm very lucky myself, been playing modern heavily since it's inception, and never had a full deck banned (some cards here and there but nothing serious) but everytime there's a big banning I see people quitting modern sometimes and MTG altogether other times. I saw thousands of euro worth foil splinter twin decks banned, same with pod. People building KCI to see it gone, now the old-fashioned affinity. Everytime people quits magic beacuse of this and it is frankly sad. I get wizards has to sell packs and all that, but power creep and not properly tested cards hurts the health of the game in the long term significantly.

[@ryanoutram7059]

I find it really hard to believe that Oko's +1 as removal was so heavily overlooked by WotC, given the existence of Kenrith's Transformation, a removal spell narratively tied to Oko that has the same effect and was printed in the same set

[@nfortin24]

The ultimate issue with the increase in banning, in my eyes, is that wotc still expects us to invest in their products. They are still increasing the amount and price of premium product while at the same time telling us we could be buying garbage. Why would a reasonable person continue to invest in and purchase products from a company that may take them away due to its poor design decisions?

[@manarock3065]

Exactly!

[@natoraishido]

Isn't the song in this video from Hot Shots Golf? It's distractingly familiar and that's the only place I can think that it comes from.

[@MrShadowdog75]

I am pretty upset about Mox Opal being banned because I finally got steel overseer for my affinity deck and now I will never get to play them and mox opal together

[@UnnameableGreviance]

I'm looking forward to this year's version of this video in a few months. Oh, Companion I'm looking at you.

[@palkia192]

So I guess all of y’all forgot about Intangible Virtue/Lingering Souls in Dark Ascension; it was Block, I know, but close enough. 😅

[@richardadams7667]

I'm upset I sold my prime time deck...but I'm glad the player who bought it left me with the 4 prime times as they already had that part of the deck!!

[@DeepCDiva]

The comment defending Oko's design as needing high loyalty to defend itself from the Elks it gives your opponent and Melissa saying they underestimated Oko's defensive capabilities almost makes me think that Oko was meant to Elk only your stuff, and then aggressively tick up to either ult or defend itself. A repeatable Beast Within, kinda, but it needed loyalty, time and some setup. Then it got pushed. Btw, funny that you mention "What if Oko(with his repeatable Beast Within) was mono white?" after the year they printed a mono white Beast Within saying it's fits more that part of the color pie.

[@tylerolson9838]

PK - great vid, good discussion. I feel bad for Mark R. as very little do we hear “good job” and yet more often we hear about our failures. I still like Eldraine and the mix it brings. Good vibes, keep it up.

[@QuietEco]

Brother build a whir sword list over the past year. Threw in Urza and we said mix opal would be something he should invest in. He knew that it would eventually get banned but still he went to 3 copies. He is going to use at least one in edh, maybe two. Seeing Wotc has no reason to reprint it he doesn't think it's worth it to sell. If there is a take away actually keep them. They will be valuable down the road.

[@haydonali4169]

You read almost every comment you get Vince? Just wanted to let you know you're a hero and a legend. Your dogs are adorable. Keep up the awesome work sir :D

[@PleasantKenobi]

Thank you. I appreciate you.

[@SoulsOnly]

I legitmately quit Modern because of the KCI ban. Glad I sold my Mox Opals when i quit too. Bans make an already expensive hobby unfeasible. Commander is the best format because barring a ban on a Commander, getting a card banned means only losing 1% of your deck that can almost always be replaced by somehthing that fills a similar role, whereas in constructed you are losing a large portion of what makes your deck work.

[@johanhaggstrom5494]

Magic Aids made a deck right away to show how busted he was, while others were saying the card was a joke. He is literally a god.