Are You Bad At Threat Assessment: AITA

Let's talk about some more Commander agony aunt example today, from the AITA channel on my discord. Threat assessment, and cheap cocktails!
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#mtg #edh #commander

[@ilyafoskin]

I have a friend who doesn’t know the meaning of the term threat assessment. He once passed me up for the last use of Wishclaw Talisman because he gave it to the archenemy instead citing the reasoning that the archenemy would then go easy on him for helping this way. The archenemy tutored Agent of Treachery with the talisman, proceeded to reanimate and blink it a bunch of times, stole all of our stuff and killed us all on the same turn making the gesture entirely pointless.

[@japplek]

They learned an important lesson - it's never worth trying to make friends with the archenemy. They don't need your friendship until you have beaten them to submission. Then you team up against the new archenemy!

[@m1gr3nA]

@@japplek that works if everyone agrees who the archenemy is (perhaps except the archenemy). but i have encountered multiple times where players cannot agree on that point. if players are decent at threat assessment the fun part starts and you can try to play the game so that everyone will assume someone else is the archenemy while it was you all along. :)

[@iNCoMpeTeNtplAyS]

Kinda sounds like y'all were boned anyways and he sped the game up unintentionally

[@ilyafoskin]

@@m1gr3nA He knew that other guy was the archenemy for sure but he underestimated how much worse the situation could get with a free tutor and assumed that the goodwill of the gesture would outweigh what he imagined would only be a slightly worsened board state. That was probably the saltiest game I’ve ever played because we had to sit through multiple rounds of our stuff being taken. I and the 4th player were seething since I was snubbed for the talisman which I wanted to use to get a board-wipe to save us and the 4th player gave him the talisman first, expecting it wouldn’t go to the archenemy. Meanwhile the archenemy was guiltless because his plays weren’t actually oppressive until he got the Agent and he was able to put the blame on the guy with terrible threat assessment. Even the archenemy was shocked when he was offered the talisman. He asked “are you sure?” So it’s not like he was hiding his dominant position. That other guy who gave him the talisman was just an idiot

[@ilyafoskin]

@@japplek Exactly, you need to be ready to refuse deals from the archenemy no matter how appealing but also try not to keep keep thinking they’re dangerous or hold a grudge after the threat has been dealt with by everyone. I’ve played a lot of games where we’re 2 or 3 turns past the last archenemy actually being a threat and someone new is gaining the advantage only for a player with terrible threat assessment to not see the new threat and blow their removal on the old archenemy’s attempt to rebuild and catch back up

[@nosrin1988]

I love it when someone removes something that's a mild threat at best and the next turn someone plays something far far worse and they just go "I should have saved that removal." absolutely hilarious.

[@agentkhaine2204]

Once someone blew up my Mind Stone with Reclamation Sage “because I can do it and want something to blow up” while an Urza deck is seated at the table. That turned into “I should’ve waited” for the other player really fast.

[@nosrin1988]

what an absolute fool. a complete pleb!@@agentkhaine2204

[@robmitchell3039]

It's especially good if you tries to talk them out of it, but they did it anyway.

[@oliviauzquiano7392]

The next person was probably saving it for after someone played removal! Lol

[@robertboles247]

As a nekusar player, I consider it a win if I get hated out by turn three...lol

[@ryderspider4247]

Yeah, I agree, I recently had a weird experience myself as a nekusar player. I had my puzzle box on field and commander at the time and, rightfully so the players picked apart my board before it got back to my turn, and I did not have an issue with this, my issue lied with the second game (psa: we all lost to dragons the first game), where before I did a single thing, I played my commander and it got elk-ified straight away out of spite from a previous game, so the question is am I in the wrong for salting out or was my reaction justified?

[@TechtonixZi]

I love Nekuzar players. I play a lot of red/black/white decks so extra card draw for only 1 life? Yes please! Until you play glistening oil you are hilariously okay with me.

[@mankool19]

@@ryderspider4247as a former nekusar player getting elked is part of the game for us no one likes geting penalized for a basic game mechanic like drawing cards so u might have to get used to it

[@kylegonewild]

@@ryderspider4247 Say it with me: you do not have to just run out your commander when able especially when it's a high priority target commander.

[@hunterstrong3318]

As an advid nekusar player, i love playing the archenemy. It keeps you on your toes and makes you play better trying to take on 3 opponents who are actively against you, rather than 4 players sitting back pooling resources till somebody just wins

[@ZSAITOSEI]

Any time I'm breaking out Nekusar, I'm openly acknowledging my role as the Elden Ring final boss at the table. Sometimes I'm a glutton for punishment...🤣

[@fatpad00]

I have a Locust god ive been thinking about changing and have thought about Nekusar, but i dont want to be the "kill on sight" target

[@Pupalah]

Nekusar was my second deck. I bought the precon when it came out because i had a nostalgic soft spot for underworld dreams. Needless to say i became the archenemy of every game i played turn 0. I didnt want to be the archenemy so i phased the deck out and turned it into lazav, never looked back.

[@ZSAITOSEI]

@@Pupalah I'll never break mine down, it's got sweet spot feels from me too, sometimes you just have to be the one in the group committing war crimes 😁

[@Justadeathgod]

If there is really someone raging against a Pyxis of Pandemonium... then this makes me as a Lantern Control player very, very proud.

[@babylonastronaut]

You're literally playing the deck called fun police or dick pyx in standard lol

[@robmitchell3039]

I have Pyxis in one deck. People are always confused, but the deck is just there to create chaos.

[@Slayerlord13]

There's a player at my local store who will play planeswalkers without any blockers when everyone else has creatures and then get sooo pissy when people take the free removal handed to them on a silver platter...

[@ferdithetank7535]

The final part of first story in fact has relevance. Being store owner's significant one likely means they keep their fiance in "easy mode", either allowing them to do their stuff with no interference or even soft cheating. Trying to argue with them would likely cause the said store owner to take his husband's side and either ban the guys from playing there again or do some other childish nonsense.

[@brandonw.7438]

Having literally said “don’t target me! The real God of Fright’s been inside you the whole time,” I approve lying about threat level

[@CHoustonify]

I don't recall where, but I've heard this called UwU Smol Bean Syndrome, where your primary method of actually protecting yourself isn't board state or card effects, but saying UwU I'm just a smol wittle bean, you're mean for attacking me just because my commander is *checks notes* kenrith. I think it's a pretty frustrating way to both build and play, because it's how a lot of players do "politics" in EDH, which gives actual politics a bad name, and it makes players feel bad for actually engaging in the game. On the other hand, I understand the feeling and my knee jerk lizard brain wants to complain when the table is coming at me when I'm topdecking lands in a Jhoira deck while the Bortuk player has a board of of 4/4 beasts. I want to cry that I'm not the threat, the Bortuk player clearly is. But I try hard not to, because I am an adult who recognizes that variance is part of the appeal and that it's my responsibility to build responses into a deck and not protect myself by guilting people.

[@khristian625]

Salubrious Snail - The Curse of Smol Bean Syndrome. For those who want to visit, or revisit, mentioned video

[@stigmaoftherose]

I've definitely UwU'ed before but only when it's literally the only way for me to not die. I want to win and will take any move to help me win. I'm not upset at all when I lose it should happen about 75% of the time at a fair table but I'm not going to not UwU just because I want to "be an adult."

[@swain1153]

Are you implying you both played against and lost to a Bortuk Bonerattle player XD

[@deejay.zedemex]

Practically every multi-player game has this, and it's why I don't normally play them (or Commander). Brawl is great, however.

[@mikki429]

I'm pretty sure that's exactly how actual politics works. Multiplayer Magic would be improved by having binding contracts.

[@styfen]

Markov player was likely upset that Pixis doesn't give the cast benefits of Edgar. So they felt emotionally damaged that a 1 mana bulk rare was hurting them. I'd call that a win for the Pixis player, emotional fatality.

[@skyguytomas9615]

They may have been violated by a lantern control deck at some point. Regardless of their motives their behavior was infantile.

[@m1gr3nA]

i would be very annoyed because markov player used their resources in so inefficient way. instead they could make this interesting and use this as talking point for discussion during gameplay.

[@atk9989]

Markov players don't get to complain about anything.

[@sbolton666]

I keep thinking of this commander game I was in. One player attack me with the tenth doctor I figured I’d use bladebrand and chump with a mana dork to save the group from what tenth doctor player was doing. I had missed a land drop the turn before so I was praying to the gods to draw on. The other one player across from me, counters my spell. Over the next two turns the tenth doctor player assembled an infinite turn combo.

[@dave7592]

Lol suggesting strongbow as some fancy imported beverage is pretty funny

[@THENOCK1366]

I think the Edgar player is just traumatized from lantern control

[@ChiralWolf]

Cider/Mead/Cyser is really hard here in the US. There's craft brews all over but they almost all focus on very dark or hoppy IPAs and stouts and you have to be pretty familiar with the local breweries to know what's worth going out of your way for. If you're ever in the midwest again I highly rate CiderBoys for a local-ish but still very safe option. They're based out of Wisconsin and have quite a strong presence in bars in many of the neighboring states. I very highly rate their Grand Mimosa, it's become my go-to summer cider.

[@Juggernautohyeah]

I absolutely say things like "oh this doesn't really do much... yet" in a way that should be incredibly obvious that it does indeed do things, even if it isn't exactly doing anything by itself. If it gets removed, I feign saltiness but respect the move, then move on.

[@fatpad00]

Ive definitely told people my "do nothing" enchantment was absolutely the correct choise for removal because it would have let me kill the table

[@bestaround3323]

​@fatpad00 It only "does nothing" because the game will be over

[@FaithlessLooter]

On the old fashioned part, a lot don't put it on the menu, but it's one they will still make for you. It's one of those cocktails that is an expectation to know, also the reason cocktails are more common in America is because it's the birthplace of cocktail culture.

[@thestralspirit]

In my experience, in America we don't often have many great cider options at bars. So I understand avoiding bars without an old fashioned

[@ryanratcliff2726]

It's usually just Angry Orchard for the cider option at bars. Which is fine enough, but I'll usually get any other cider option, if available. Same as Vince's description of Strongbow. Although, personally, I do really like Strongbow

[@Chuchurute]

The way I like to think, is that there are cards that are NEVER used in a fair way and if you play them you deserve to have the target on your head and Teferi's Puzzle Box is one of then. No one uses that card just for the lols.

[@eewweeppkk]

I have in fact just used it for the lols before. Used to have it in my zedruu donate deck, because it's a completely symmetrical effect and the deck had a light chaos theme that teferis helps with.

[@cameroncorrado3935]

I used to play Puzzlebox in my Zedruu deck, too, and I never included any lock pieces with it. The intention was to make it so that my opponents couldn't plan several turns in advance based on their current hand, as well as minimize the effectiveness of card draw spells and counter spells. I was also a better player than the rest of my playgroup, and I knew what my own deck could do better than my opponents knew theirs. My goal with the card was to leverage that skill gap in order to create an advantage. Now if someone else played a Narset or a Hullbreacher (or any of the other billions of cards that Wizards seems to love to print nowadays that punish extra draw effects 😤), I would tend to draw the aggro for having the Puzzlebox, which I personally didn't agree with, but at least I understood the risk when I chose to play it.

[@Radicalbeast]

second story sounds like someone that just hates exile effects. Sometimes it feels bad when you watch your cards get exiled repeatedly. But screw him, hes playing Edgar Markov.

[@seanedgar164]

It's not even exiling a zone he cares about tho, 1 card per turn off the top that'll get put on your board for free isn't a worry most would have

[@Yabu85]

On 3. Reminds me of a time I went to a pub in Dublin and they had "Imported German Craft Beer" on offer. It was Flensburger, which is like selling Hop House, Stella Artois or Sam Adams Lager as "Imported [Foreign] Craft Beer".

[@MrMariaTTVArchive]

1. I think Neku-Box Deserve the aggro too. Even if its a new player, i believe that this is a good learning exp on what the baseline EDH meta is. Proper communication is the key, Maybe OC and friend should let him know why theyre teaming up to reduce bad vibes 2. OC calls the bluff, not the asshole but deserved.

[@oQuindo1]

It is weird THAT specific card was what made them the target. For me the card that made me a specific players mortal enemy was when I dropped Titania’s Song onto the board against a player who had just cashed in a big combo to give himself a 12 damage unblockable commander with phase out using equipments. Sometimes you just happen to have the 1 card that answers the situation.

[@ThreatLevel9]

“dont use a whatever card you included in your deck or else i will target you until you die.” idk sounds pretty rude and childish to make that statement to begin with. sure, you can target and hate me out of the game, even if its objectively the wrong play, but what is even the fun of playing a casual multiplayer format if you act like that

[@seanedgar164]

It wasn't about calling a bluff, it was pure disbelief in a dumb assessment

[@Kryptnyt]

If you're an aggro deck in commander it's usually correct to attack one player until mortis and move on to the next, rather than anger the whole table with communist attacks. Finding an excuse within the game to attack one player, however invalid it may seem, might divert them from getting the idea it was due to some human reasons that exist outside of the game. Generally speaking though, it's one of the reasons why aggro struggles in a 4 player game with 40 life each, because you really have to commit. Now, this guy could also just be actually triggered by the card, which is totally possible, in which case, every player has to be ready for this situation and be prepared to set up defenses. Don't die to 1/1 vampires, folks. They're terrible.

[@IIxIxIv]

Someone says "I will kill you if you activate this card" and then proceeds to kill you after activating the card is pretty clearcut NAH. Making good on a thread isn't being an asshole, it's important for your threats to bear weight. The player who played it is maybe a bit of an asshole for just dismissing the other player's possible concern (players really hate having their cards made unplayable), but if he personally never intended to abuse the effect that's not really a problem.

[@oQuindo1]

Rather then saying "This card does not do anything" I recently started to try to say "I currently do not have a payoff for this on board, However THIS player currently has XYZ payoff in play." I have a casual Aeon Engine deck often gets targeted because it looks really scary (ramp with mana rock tokens), however the cool thing is that when people target me they are suddenly learning about the stack, responses, and other card interactions.

[@kylegonewild]

Yeah, some of the players at my LGS have awful threat assessment so I've had to become very upfront about what all my stuff can do to convince them I'm being honest when I point out what the other people's stuff can do.

[@jimbojones2211]

I don't like bullies in real life, and I fuckin hate them in an LGS. "Don't do this or I'll do this." Okay big guy, bet. You do whatever you think it right.

[@LuigieatsBabies]

Well thank you Vince, Puzzle Box is going into my Nekuzar deck now

[@Radicalbeast]

how was it not already?

[@LuigieatsBabies]

@Radicalbeast i dont use EDHRec, and just use whats in my collection.

[@tralchemist]

RE Drinks: the next time you're in Wisconsin you should look out for Wisconsin Belgian Red (a Cherry Beer) or Serendipity (a Raspberry Beer). They're made by the same brewery as Spotted Cow and are basically the cherry and raspberry equivalent of cider. Highly recommend. (They have other fruit beers as well, Strawberry Rhubarb being a favorite of mine, but they're highly seasonal and rarely on tap anywhere, only bottles/cans).

[@42grath]

Honestly though, the annoyance in playing with Teferi's box is why I considered not putting it in Nekusar as I am in the process of building a deck with him. Very easily can just draw table hate way too quickly and all the resources put you down early. Anyone who is playing Nekusar, or something that forces discard should 100% expect and understand that people like having the cards they have in their hand. Never having hand stability is something people are going to want to stop, and if they don't have artifact destruction, killing you directly can be their fastest way to remove it. OP is NTA. Edit: For the second story, OP isn't the asshole either. The card exists, it isn't banned, and it isn't even a stax card. Yeah, it can do some wonky stuff and I'm sure there's combos for it, but it's not Toxrill, it's not Magistrate, it's basically just a tap to mill but goes to exile instead. I think it's also fine to target someone down as I said before to get rid of something on the board, but don't be a dick about it.

[@japplek]

Tbf I don't think the Markov player is the asshole either. At least not based on their actions in game - if they had a shitty attitude in delivering thr promised aggro, then fuck em - but saying you're going to make someone your target and following through is fine. The other players at the table should have taken advantage of their poor assessment and made them pay for it. If they aggro the same person out every game that could turn into bullying I guess, but that isn't what happened here.

[@42grath]

@@japplek Oh yeah I guess I wasn't clear about that. I think it's fine to focus someone down. I'm just meaning if you're doing it, don't be a dick about it as you said. There's a difference between "I think you're the threat/I hate this effect, I need it gone" and "Fuck you" and insults, or generally shitty attitude alongside it. The table aggro alone wouldn't make me not want to play another game with them after that. Just seemed like yeah, he might have had a shit attitude around the whole thing.

[@eewweeppkk]

The thing is is that it's like 99% psychological. Wheeling is beneficial the vast majority of the time, people don't like seeing their cards go bye because brains are silly and they feel like they've lost something. Wheel out something that you can't play for 3 turns anyway? But I was PLANNING on having it so you took it from me! Nevermind the fact that you put something valuable that I can use into my hand.

[@42grath]

@@eewweeppkk Oh you're absolutely right. But *they* didn't do it themselves. That said, card advantage is huge. Playing through your deck and getting wheels is huge. The extra draw my Sheoldred deck gives everyone is potentially very dangerous, but Nekusar with teferi has a number of ways to make a single wheel extremely dangerous/lethal as well. There is some logic behind just wanting to get rid of one of Nekusar's major pieces.

[@grimmlydead]

salubrious snail calls down playing your board Smol Bean syndrome. I like that quite a lot. "What? Me? Nah. I'm just a little guy."

[@dkronk426]

I run nekusar as a pet deck, with puzzle box, and I know for a fact when when I pull that deck out, it's me vs the table, and I know that and I accept it. It's like these people who whip out sen triplets and get upset when they aren't allowed to resolve it. Yeah man, I'm just gonna let you do the thing.

[@firestormingfox4169]

This is why I built group-hug sen's triplets. I don't get hated out as much when I'm giving out extra resources to mitigate the feels-bad of card theft

[@kylegonewild]

TPB is one of my favorite artifacts. It can often be a frustrating play pattern but it can also be an entertaining and memorable experience. Like when I played one in my Council of Four deck one time, and the mill player managed to clone it, then the esper player stole mine, so I made a metamorph copy of the original and the Auntie Blyte player immediately triple-wheeled into Vandalblast.

[@TheLuckySpades]

What does TPB stand for?

[@m1gr3nA]

@@TheLuckySpades teferis puzzle box

[@m1gr3nA]

i'm not sure i see why other players would like tpb on board on their side while there is one in play already. you do not play narset effects in council, right? i get that mill may play corrosion/erasure effects but again there is tpb in play already and if someone has removal for copied tpb then that removal almost always hits corrosion/erasure. same goes for you cloning it again for yourself. also i approve vandalblast. it makes the game more manageable. resolving draw steps seems time consuming.

[@TheLuckySpades]

@@m1gr3nA my brain really farted there didn't it, thanks though

[@LadyBernkastel92]

I was confused about why people had a problem with the puzzle box at first, I play one in all of my hellraiser themed decks for flavor and most of the time people seem to enjoy the ability to cycle through their deck faster, but yeah combined with Nekusar that becomes a threat and if I don't have the artifact removal it becomes time for player removal.

[@oQuindo1]

I think the correct thing to do is simply have this conversation. "Does your deck have many answers for that?" "Nope" "I guess we aggro them then?" Make it a little more clear that the reason for the aggro is that both the players do not have any answers in hand/deck.

[@someguy1ification]

Teferi's Puzzle Box is a card that... you don't really run unless you're comboing with it to do degenerate things. In a vacuum, it is just as likely to get someone to any single card that they want as it is to get rid of one. You can sort of take advantage of it by just playing a deck of individual good cards and anybody that has to set up will have a slightly harder time... But its best case is only a slight skew in the base 50-50 of helping you vs screwing you over. In a vacuum. But we don't use cards in vacuums, now do we? And the combos with Puzzle Box are incredibly powerful, to the point where letting one get set up will probably prevent you from doing anything about it. The card has no virtually no "fair" use cases. I also want to mention another card in a similar situation: Mesmeric Orb. Milling statistically does nothing until you reach zero cards in library. In fact, it's often helpful, since the graveyard is often easier to access. When someone blows up my Mesmeric Orb for milling them, I will tell them that it's a bad reason--and that they should be killing it because the thing combos with my Sidisi, Brood Tyrant instead. I have had people respond by saying that they don't care about the pile of zombies and are just mad that I put their Etali in the graveyard when it was like eight cards down anyway, lol.

[@mikki429]

I have never had any luck explaining that there is very little difference between the nth card down on your library and one in your graveyard. The main difference is in *knowing* you won't get to play that card this game and that's what gets people salty.

[@asomelord]

I was playing my Hapatra deck with some friends of mine, none of us were playing blue. I don't remember the exact situation, but i had my commander, Doubling Season, a Blood Artist ability, and Serrated Arrows on my field. In my hand, i had the last combo piece i needed to go infinite, Blowfly Infestation, and something to untap Serrated Arrows, but i don't remember what. I was unable to attack with Hapatra so i was really relying on Serrated Arrow to go infinite. My friend played... i think Naturalize or Krosan Grip... targeting Serrated Arrows. I insisted that Doubling Season would be far more scary... they said in my deck (Hapatra Aristocrats/pillow fort midrange) it's far more important to shut down my engine, i just chuckled and congratulated them on making the correct decision.

[@EventideV]

Hey Pixse had a spot in modern lantern control I love that deck

[@chrisvanderheiden12]

I almost wonder if that was the reason the card was hated. Some association with lantern control

[@insainraven9875]

I personally just say you get to do the cool thing once then I wil react. Unless the thing is to take me out of the game or remove my ability to interact you’re good have fun, tis a game and if it’s something new it’s something cool to me. Expect to be player removed if I can remove the piece however.

[@Otako371]

WOOOOOO got the spotted cow shout-out! If you come back to my neck of the woods brother I'll have a 12 pack waiting fer ya, shit's cheaper than water up 'ere.

[@TheGreaterThanTwo]

Pyxis is a pet card of mine in the zedruu grouphug deck that was my very first edh deck i ever build. It comes down early, affects every player, and is great to pass off to someone else to get the zedruu draw/life every turn, while it's not a big enough threat for people to waste removal on, and then the controlling player popping the pyxis benefits you without having you spend the mana for it ... Plus all the political possibility of gifting something meaningful to incentivize the controller to activate it

[@ardynamberglow3124]

One of my friends always ends up being Enemy #1 because he single handedly ends up painting a target on himself because of how he plays some of the decks we have at the table. In one of our commander nights, he ended up playing a Krenko deck, and when we started focusing him down he complained that we were "Targeting him," or the like. Thing is, I know how bad Krenko is, and while one of my other friends is newer to magic, she also understood that Krenko is KOS no matter what. In another game, he was playing Tegurd in a sac-discard deck, with a mill effect that EVERYONE hated, so we wanted to knock him out cuz we couldn't really play our decks. Just because we know sound threat assessment, or push the advantage, doesn't mean we're assholes. He then goes on to complain that my decks are "Too strong," or "Too fast," when they aren't. I just know how to build a good deck, and play optimally.

[@vincentnoonan549]

My play group is good at threat assessment since they knocked me out of a game on turn 3 all because i had 5 lands on turn 2. Using my main 5c commander, i had 1 basic land and 4 trinomes, turn 2. They realized how broken Summers Bloom was that day and i went first to start the game lol It was fun watching the rest of the match from the sidelines since i was the main threat turn 2 which rarely happens with a 5c commander with zero mana rocks. Sure my commander is Golos but it's mostly a bluff, works everytime 😁

[@matthewdaley4403]

Next year at Cubecon, if you come back, I'll be ready with more craft ciders from around Wisconsin.

[@grantmurdock7385]

As someone who moved to Wisconsin a couple years back, people here are real passionate about Spotted Cow. And ya know, it's good stuff. Good way to make friends when I'm traveling to bring some. Bringing beers are another good way to not be seen as the threat. For a little bit.

[@T_Peazy]

0:55 this is my story!? Holy shit! Cool!

[@T_Peazy]

I only included the bit about the guy being the store owners husband because there's a bit of a power dynamic here. And because I wasn't sure if it made me more or less of an asshole.

[@T_Peazy]

Also, my friend and I couldn't remove the puzzle box so... player removal it was.

[@nao_tomori]

i've been ganged up on in EDH games, and it always makes me smile a lil. my lil deck scared them enough to take me out first. But whenever that happens, you just ride it out, take your loss with grace and start shuffling for the next game.

[@Frankenstein3r]

store employee scared by lantern control

[@Dragynstone1202]

I rub pyxis in my Umbris, Fear Manifest deck and just never crack it

[@joshbowdish9851]

I have a friend that's a little new to commander and recently ran into my other friend's mill deck. Mill deck did a bit of a thing, not a whole thing, but the new friend was definitely laser focused on ending the Mill friend. Now it's a bit of a meme that you don't mill him at all or you're gonna get targeted, but I guess the critical difference is he knows its an overreaction, so now it's a character to play, where he sometimes gets milled last

[@DrkWhiteWolf]

My "bit" is when I play Vial smasher. It wasn't me, it was the Di.

[@DocTwisted]

Last Commander game I was in, someone played an Eldrazi deck. I had no problem swinging at them as much as I could, because he was The Threat. He got super salty that I "robbed him" of winning by lowering his life total in the early rounds. I shrugged and told him Eldrazi is always the biggest threat.

[@seanedgar164]

Puzzlebox is annoying hand disruption. Even if they weren't on nekusar I'd attack them if I couldn't remove it. Pyxis is fine. Low impact and low disruption, I used it in Reality Chip and everyone was interested to see what would happen

[@byronsmothers8064]

If my prosper deck has sensei's top or deciple of the vault, it's right to be suspicious, they benefit my gameplan by themselves and just do little things, but they're also pieces of a winning combo.

[@walls_of_skulls6061]

Looking at the title I was trying to figure out “Am I threat assessment”

[@fatpad00]

Bishop Cider in Dallas and Austin Eastciders are craft cideries that you can get at some bars and stores in Texas Angry Orchard is our equivalent to strongbow, most restaurants and bars will have it at least in a bottle.

[@modernjoe2]

I have one card that i play that always makes me the asshole of the table. Mana maze, every time i drop it at least two of the other plays groan in frustration as i laugh maniacally

[@lordgherkinface]

Just a heads up for drinks in Bournemouth as you brought them up. Smoking Aces will do just about anything you fancy as will Cosy Club. Just incase you're with another picky drinker in the area.

[@devinloew7681]

Spotted Cow is goated here in Wisconsin. We're all alcoholics practically, so there are some pretty great beers local to us.

[@slantedshark3853]

Yo a friend of mine during a casual game at a friends house used teferi's puzzlebox and narset, parter of veils to make it so only he could draw cards. He won (obviosly) because of that damn box so im sorry to anyone that plays that card its getting destroyed asap if i can.

[@T4N7]

If the aggro player in story 2 was running a deck with all instant n sorcery cards I could understand the hate but I’m not familiar with the commander u mentioned

[@RainbowblitzFTW]

So fun fact, the reason America has such a prevalent cocktail culture is because of prohibition. Americans gained a taste for them because when people were making their home moonshine or bathtub gin and rum it was so disgusting and strong that few people could stomach it straight, so plentiful mixers were introduced. Further fun fact mountain dew was originally created as a moonshine mixer, and still works well as one to this day

[@EstimatedAdam]

Original Sin Ciders are amazing. Black Widow ftw. They're from the Pacific Northwest so im surprised you didnt find one in Portland!

[@lastresort1plays]

Expensive whiskey, and or Wine, California won several blind taste tests back in late 2000's over France and Italian wineries, and American Whiskey is different from scotch.

[@itachi9kitty]

This ruins nights at the card shops. So many people go "oh you're playing that commander" and then just destroy everything you have ignoring the board state, even worse when 2 out of the 4 commander players are doing this.

[@DHale-qj1nm]

Had a player lose their mind over pyxis of pandemonium.... cause I'd declared I'd never pop it only ever adding to the facedown exile pile. This upset them because I could exile away any number of combo pieces.

[@manwithabasicprofilepic]

I “had” a friend who would always suck up to the archenemy for second place. Every. Single. Game.

[@PuppyDante]

I was recently playing with a "newer player" who'd been learning from very experienced players, and had proxied all his decks. I'm talking things like Ragavan and Emrakuls and stuff. This guy got upset that I kept trying to take out his Ragavan one game, but I'd watched him for 6-7 games politicking his way to victory. It always started as "No no, don't target my X thing, look over there. He's doing so much", as he points to a player that was not only not a threat to me, I wasn't a threat to him. But the Ragavan player was getting KILLED by that player. And anytime you mentioned interacting with the Ragavan players board, he'd drop things like All Will Be One on the table out of his hand and be all "Oh if you do this I'll do that". Every time I've seen this player since, he plays the exact same way

[@PuppyDante]

On another note, when I'm playing my close friend group, one of whom I play 1v1 commander with at least 10 times in a row whenever we play, I've gotten into the habit of telling them when I'm about to win, and same for them. We enjoy pushing each other to find every possible avenue, every possible card draw. Until we know there was absolutely nothing we could have done to beat the other.

[@joshdavies1009]

My table thought my jinnie fay deck (token jank) was the threat, when there was a hakbal deck (extremely fast merfolk) and a feather deck (buffs and cantrips with a side of extra combats) right there

[@bantaman64]

Next time you're in Portland, you should check out Wyrd Meadery

[@Cybershroom]

guy counters my Sol Ring with a FoW and not the guy who keeps ramping in Simic colors. We love bad threat assessments.

[@flarepie24]

one time i was in a game with 3 people that seemed to be pretty familiar with eachother while i only knew them in passing, i was playing an early version of my firja deck wich was basicially bad angel tribal with some other stuff tossed in (whatever i had baisically), turn 4 everyone else is building their board decently well and i finally play my first card, crypt ghast, it gets countered, i just scooped

[@bluerendar2194]

If you're expecting a mana doubling effect to not get dealt with when you clearly have a hand full of high-cost spells/are setting up for some sort of combo.... It's a fear of the unknown situation. They don't know what the rest of the deck does with the mana, clearly it's supposed to do *something...* if they did know you didn't have some sort of blowout setup possible, then *maybe* they ease up and not counter it. Heck, once it's dealt with, they might not outright kill you if all of them have enough board that they need to leave up defense. Show a few mediocre angel cards after, maybe they'll let you sit for some more turns, and next game, they know. Proactively speaking, if you have any lower-cost cards, running a few out without good value but just to show the card quality would ease fears over saving a full grip of unknown cards.

[@rosewarrior706]

I had to take apart a deck because the commander gave ward 1 aura tokens and any time it was cast it was removed or countered even above things like annilator eldrazi, or big creater doubler.

[@MakeVarahHappen]

The thing I've learned in Commander is that people often tell you that cards are fine as long as there isn't a combo or lock and that is just straight up untrue. If you play a knowledge pool without teferi time raveler people just imagine in their heads the second piece even if you're not even in those colors, and more importantly just don't like the effect. They don't hate the pyxis because of the big fatties, they don't like losing unknown cards. They don't hate the puzzle box because maybe in a turn or two they'll take seven damage, they don't like the plan for their turn being undone. This is why I am so sick of the complaints about bowmasters or narset or even hullbreacher. People want to Blue Sun Zenith for 20 without consequence so they throw wheels under the bus.

[@PositiveBlackSoul]

Teferi's box played early just drags games. Nobody can plan ahead and get's to see a bunch of new cards from their deck each turn so everyone needs more time to think about what they're gonna do till the next mandatory wheel and that doesn't even go into picking up your big 100 card deck and wheeling under and ugh. One of my least favorite cards in Commander.

[@eewweeppkk]

​@PositiveBlackSoul Realistically you're getting a couple of lands, a card or two that make no sense or have no mana for, and like 2 or 3 ACTUAL options for the turn. Puzzle box can definitely make the game take longer...but we're talking an extra 15 seconds to minute a turn 99% of the time.

[@cameroncorrado3935]

I used to play Puzzlebox in my Zedruu deck and never included any lock pieces with it. The intention was to make it so that my opponents couldn't plan several turns in advance based on their current hand, as well as minimize the effectiveness of card draw spells and counter spells. I was also a better player than the rest of my playgroup, and I knew what my own deck could do better than my opponents knew theirs. My goal with the card was to leverage that skill gap in order to create an advantage.

[@PositiveBlackSoul]

@@eewweeppkk That's probably true and my dislike is to a degree irrational. But my first time encountering the card was when I was playing a new deck for the first time and the person playing the damn box didn't knew their deck that well either. So every other draw step took another minute or so as I was figuring out the hand I was dealt. The deck was for the most part also very low to the ground so I had to read a lot of cards I wasn't too familiar with. Even then I knew the card was gonna be annoying no matter the deck I play.

[@volosguidetomonsters3440]

No I'm the clone man, I have a grixis clones deck Sedris the Traitor King reanimating Dragon Mage, moments before a clone appears

[@DarkMarkgician]

No one in Australia drinks fosters my friend 😂

[@ElDocBruh]

I'm bad at threat assessment. I can never tell when something I want to cast will make me the threat 😮‍💨

[@pmf98]

Hey I want to post an AITA question here in the spirit of this subject. During a recent commander night a player was wanting to test a new deck of his, a Light-Paws deck that he said he built on a budget. I and one of the other opponents were playing decently expensive decks (I believe I was playing Atraxa if that affects things). He said he had researched the deck online and was excited to see how it worked out. The game played out normally, with him getting his commander out turn 2 on curve with no player ramping terribly much. The Light paws player even bought me a soda in between turns.Turn 3 he plays an aura, asks if it resolves, then goes to pull every aura from his deck onto the field. Every player at the table stopped him saying that they didn’t think that’s how it worked. He insisted putting the aura from the deck onto the battlefield was casting it, and that he had seen videos of people online playing the deck that way, and he’d built the deck around his understanding of the effect. The judge we called had no idea how the effect worked and was too busy with customers at the time to immediately look it up. I’d asked other players around us if that is how it worked, and the response was mostly “no, that’s ridiculous”. The light paws player kept insisting that was how it was supposed to work, and I got frustrated with him and told him something to the effect of “Dude, just stop. Let it go and let’s just continue the game.” To which he started packing up, and I heard him mutter “well that’s a waste of 40 dollars” before walking out of the game store. We later got confirmation that he was wrong in how the card worked, but I still feel guilty about how I handled the situation. AITA for shutting down this player’s objections? Thank you for bearing with me on this story.

[@cameroncorrado3935]

I don't think attempting to uphold the rules of the game to your best ability makes you an asshole. Magic has a lot of complicated interactions, and as Wizards prints cards that do more and more complicated things, the interactions they have with other cards becomes more and more difficult to follow. If someone insists that an interaction works a particular way and someone else disagrees, and the players can't come to an agreement by looking it up or asking a judge, I don't think it's unreasonable to leave the decision of what happens up to the group. As far as your behavior compared to this other player's, I don't think enough information was presented to make a judgment call.

[@scriptkid_rs]

I've had two instances in magic that I've actually had people get REALLY mad at me. 1. My first deck ever built was Kami of the Moon, it was basically the teferi commander precon just with Kami at the helm and chasm skulker. We played a 4 man pod and quite early on it grew and grew and grew. It was the only threat in my deck. Played got mad cuz I swung and killed him 'since my deck was group hug why would I kill people'. Really killed my vibe for a good few months and took a year to get back into edh cuz of it. 2. Our current playgroup (we play 1X a week at a friends house commander). A guy that was new and played high power decks (accepted in our pod, we play mid-high) kept a one lander and cheated sylvan library into play somehow, I cannot recall. He's a combo player and I t2 nature's claimed his sylvan library. He literally flipped the table and LEFT my friends house fuming, saying stuff about my appearance. But quite often he pops out his jhoira CEDH deck and combos off T2. Now each game is a new game but you can't keep a greedy opening hand and get upset imho

[@williamscerbo458]

Thought this was gonna be a video about Lantern control lol

[@TheLingeringWill]

Somebody killed my dark steel puck so I farted

[@runeserpent1449]

I played pyxis of pandemonium in my Grenzo havoc raiser deck because my deck was bad so getting rid of my bad card for 3 potentially good cards was always worth it. Card can get very funny with artifact copy/untap effects to make a bunch of different exile piles xD deck peaked playing vs an extra turns yennett deck, just a whole lot of fun mind gaming them. Table was just laughing when yennett went to combat like 3 times in a row just to reveal a land or some 1 mana cantrip

[@Onattamato]

You were in WI and I missed you!? Darn!

[@cedarbobedar7223]

Do you ever get Scottish heavy ale? Usually named like "Such-and-such Best"? Had some when I was over in Glasgow and haven't been able to find anything comparable since coming home, and even the specialty places just try to give me dark beer - nobody even knows what I'm talking about. I just walked into any pub and asked for a pint of heavy over there and everybody seemed to know.

[@atalhlla]

I’ve been in a pod where brother and sister kept slogging each other while the other two of us mostly just watched while we tried to build a board state from the bad hands we kept. I guess it worked out?

[@hoodiegal]

Pyxis is funny as shit. With my Muldrotha deck, the thing I hate the most is having my cards exiled because that means I have 0% chance to use them in that game. With Pyxis though, there's a promise they'll return. If I was on my Muldrotha deck and someone dropped Pyxis, I'd try to protect that player until they could crack it because it's fucking funny.

[@thelegendarysolocard]

I agree to a point, but my monogreen hugs deck shouldn't get gangbanged the second howling mine hits the field.

[@hatsandlaziness9252]

When I say I’ve seen some of the worst threat assessments possible, I mean it. I once played a commander game where I was playing mono blue Jin, core auger. Now I’ll admit, I’ve got all 3 Jin’s in this deck, but I’m not broadcasting that to the table. There’s a kid running something very cobbled together, another guy playing partner voltron, and lastly some guy you ended up mana screwed with an empty board so he never ended up being anything. I get like just enough mana to barely cast some spell that will return a card to the owner hand, it is not a may ability but a you have to. The partner voltron guy has ward 6 which I can’t over come, there’s a blank board and this kid. I send his commander to his hand, cause I have to, he decides to command zone it instead, and then named me public enemy number one, despite the fact that the partner Voltron guy is pinging me and this kid for direct unblockable commander damage each turn and is about to end the game in like 2 turns. My next turn I play Jin progress tyrant, just for the kid to double counter my Jin just cause despite the fact he’s dead in the next turn and I’m trying to stop the partner Voltron somehow. I just scooped after that cause what’s the point if he’s going to not bother paying attention and just target me cause I “killed his commander”

[@dorsidhion81]

I like Woodchuck Cider from Vermont.

[@Devininity]

Imo people underestimate how good amaretto can be in mixed drinks. Just it and milk is already good

[@de245733]

Pyxis is great, I play it in my top deck manipulation.dek deck that also runs latern, turning it from a harmless piece of junk into a premature value card remover (as I would never pay 7 to activate it), it just removes the cards forever Its great

[@wazzledog1007]

Pramikon is my least favorite because I'm often playing aggro. The local pramikon enthusiast makes sure to sit next to sit as far away from me whenever possible, and makes deals with people ahead of him to prevent people from attacking them. I could either spend resources to remove pramikon or try to run over the player in between the actual threat and my board. Either I go shields down vs combo, hemorrhage tempo, or potentially create a feels bad by removing a player who's not a threat. It's not even that good against my decks from a win% perspective, it just pits me against players that threat assessment dictates are low priority to take out.

[@michaelsparks1571]

For me at least, I don't play cEDH tier-decks, but I do enjoy playing higher power/consistency decks, usually that do big combo finishes, while many of the players at my LGS generally play less tuned/powerful decks. I've made it a habit of letting everyone know if I'm ever at an "If I untap, I win" game state.

[@dennisbradford7216]

1. Always frustrating to run into Nekusar/Locust God/Xyris players who take their sweet time setting up their board with enchantments and artifacts like Teferi's Puzzle Box but complain when you attack them while they do so. "But I haven't done anything to you!!!" Yeah, but like... I wasn't born yesterday. I'm not going to sit here and let you draw cards and craft your hand with impunity. If you don't like it, maybe at least play a Propaganda or something. 2. From a philosophical standpoint I know it's ultimately pointless to try to police other people's threat assessment. People will feel threatened by the cards that they feel threatened by, and it's not always logical. The opponent communicated upfront that they don't like Pyxis of Pandemonium and told Vis that they'd attack them if they activated it-- and I think it was right of Vis to call their bluff, essentially-- I see too many players capitulate to empty threats-- but the op followed through, so they're not really guilty of anything but poor threat assessment. Vis doesn't really describe how they reacted beyond leaving, but I'd like to give some advice: it's easy, in Vis's position, to be upset about this, but experience has taught me that showing anger at the game table is really unproductive- in situations like these I try to take a deep breath and channel that feeling into surprise and bewilderment. I think an audible sigh, a slight shake of the head, and perhaps quietly saying something like "Pyxis of Pandemonium, huh?" is much more likely to cause your opponent to rethink their threat assessment for the next game than just telling them that they're an idiot for reacting to Pyxis like that, which again, I'm not saying that Vis did, it's just a reaction I see from players fairly often.

[@BetterCallKahl]

My buddy is confused with threat assessment he sees threats but cant differentiate between threats to him and threats to things he cant handle for him it's just threat

[@LeBecBec]

Fosters is Australian but its almost exclusively exported and no one drinks it here because it's crap

[@jamiesajdak7147]

Kinda interesting seeing pyxis again, I build a (very bad) eldrazi processor modern deck when I was trying to get into modern, many moons ago, that used it as fodder for the processors. It was fun to flip once all the ops card were returned from exile but yea.... not a great card.

[@thepoorgamer3208]

On the beer/wine topic, you should try Reubaus (probably spelled wrong) it’s a raspberry beer from Founders, super tasty

[@TheGilamonser]

As a Nekusar Puzzle Box enjoyer, we are the asshole

[@danielbull8509]

No one drinks fosters or know what it is usually in Australia

[@acooldog4959]

wisconsin mentioned!!!!!

[@OdinPlays94]

I used to play in a small group and we would meet up once a week to play. I was always open about my deck strength and I was testing out a new list. It was a mono green big stompy list that was at best a power 7. They pulled out drana and linvala, nekusar and Najeela. Told them it was fine as I wanted to see what it would do against higher power lists. Drana and Linvala player neglected to mention that they basically made board wipe tribal and kept targeting me with every bit of removal and board wipe they had when I wasn't even the threat. Like, how are you going to target my 1/1 mana dork with feed the swarm when the nekusar player has torbran and fiery emancipation in play or the najeela player has derevi on board? I got so pissed off that I pulled out Urza and proceeded to aether spellbomb loop everyone at the table, never once letting their commander stick around. If you want to treat me like the threat, I'll become the threat.

[@ComingUpDilhouse]

Fosters is Australian, but it's incredibly hard to find here because it's garbage and only Americans drink it.

[@IAmebAdger]

The thing about kicking dogs is its not really fair on the dog as the dog does not expect it and further it doesnt have the capacity to kick you back or the legal expertise to sue you unless it relies on its owner who may or may not be present at the time.

[@IzzRei]

Love the dunking on yugioh, and the references to that player who got banned for having tokens of a different deck just to mislead ppl