Emulating the SID the HARD way

[@plgDavid]

Thank you so much for all the comments and questions. Just have some little points to clarify: This should not be interpreted as me implying that anything here is in the best research or the best results you can get out there. That's for others to decide. Think of it more like a journal of our own journey into it, without taking other project’s implementations. I have huge respect for the work done by others on the SID over the years, don’t get me wrong. Something that was not ill intended but got wrongly interpreted however: In the Song QA section: each time you hear a song, and there is a picture of a specific SID, you are actually hearing THAT SID, not our emulator’s take on it. The goal here was to highlight each original chips sonic differences more than anything. Show the challenge it represented as it were. I could have posted the A/B and will probably do it somewhere, or you can also do it yourself with the app. Here is Jammer's Club Stylier (one of the tracks we QA'ed) if you want to A/B with headphones or whatnot Think we got really close, but up to you to decide: soundcloud.com/chipsounds/jammer-club-stylier-rea-8580-then-csc64s-8580 Thank you!

[@adriansmithmusic]

Hi David, is it possible to rip presets in sid / psid files yet? If you could implement this in a user friendly way it would be amazing and a game changer! Well apart from being a game changer as is! Thanks, Adrian.

[@plgDavid]

@@adriansmithmusic I assume you have not seen the video that was released on the same day that explains how its partially there and its challenges? kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6itdYqbr813ZpY

[@adriansmithmusic]

@@plgDavid I Have not! Thanks for your reply!

[@lis6502]

i just can't imagine amount of work put into understanding what is "the average SID chip" and then all the deviations from this average.

[@dysamoria]

In a tech world dominated by soulless, clueless & disinterested "investors", brand vultures (like the one that just ate Moog, FFS), and sociopathic corporate executives, Plogue/David shows what true love for music tech (and its community) looks like. Some of these videos' contents go well over my head (dyscalculia, among other limitations), but they've also made me into an admirer. Witnessing David's passion and respect for computer-music tech is inspiring. My own love of tech has mostly been killed by ultra-capitalism and abusive corporations, but some of it still lingers on within me (and is why I have a retro/classic-computer setup in my studio). This part of me seriously wakes up, gurgles with nostalgic joy, while witnessing the immense amount of obsessively-detailed work done by David/Plogue, and his efforts to describe and explain his work to us in these videos. I don't consider myself a chip-music fan in specific, but my music-making life started with a Tandy 1000 TL/2, game music has always been meaningful & influential to me, and so this is all quite inspiring. Thanks for all the amazing work you do!!

[@PegboardNerds]

Talk about dedication, love it!

[@0xTJ]

Wow, this is genuinely incredible! This is the kind of data capture that you normally only dream of!

[@plgDavid]

tedious and rewarding.

[@xero110]

Every now and then I get a little hope that the internet wasn't a mistake. Thanks.

[@McAlby]

The amount of research and effort you've done is mind blowing. Congrats for the release!

[@SJSsesco]

6581 still in my original 64 from 1984 and still sounding great👍🤟

[@Breakfast_of_Champions]

Check your original PSU before it goes bad mate

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

Your commitment to getting accurate data is truly inspiring!

[@ponponpatapon9670]

man, all this immense care and attention to detail really makes me wonder what will come in the future. i wish these videos had more engagement i wasn't even alive for the SID, but i still have a soft spot for its sound and chips like it. in the far future i'm hoping for something like the DMG-CPU, or TIA/POKEY - but either way, i look forward to the next thing, whatever it may be; it's distilled brilliance each and every time

[@chinossynthesizer705]

Bob yannes also made the esq-1 and esq-80 synth keyboards im sad because i used to have a sq-80 that broke it also had midi problems and the battery would get very warm and keybed problems. but i wish they were remade beautiful wavetable synth with a analog filter and 8 bit waveforms.

[@Maj0rB00thr0yd]

Everything counts in large amounts. Thank you for your service.

[@collect-thor8064]

While i already bought a bunch of chipsynths/speech from you on the black week i just also bought the c64 chipsynth. Keep up the great work

[@avrilcadabra]

I will have to give this a shot, usually disappointed in accuracy of replacement sids and emulations but you have gone peak nerd here, and this is no doubt as good as we will ever get, bravo

[@Papierzeit]

Super nice insides \o/

[@Chiron2009Music]

I'm seriously blown away by the amount of effort you put into each release! I absolutely love these videos, even if some of the coding/mathematics side of things is above what I can understand. Chipcrusher is one of my go-to effects to always use! Brilliant, David!

[@ShamblerDK]

My second computer was a C64. I've known for a few years how hard it is to emulate the SID, and your video provided an even more in-depth view into the difficulties surrounding that emulation 🙂

[@battlemode]

Fantastic video. The electronics side of it goes over my head unless I stop and try to remember all my CS hardware classes, but what I took away from this is that you're got a real passion for this chip, for your craft and I found it very entertaining! Thanks!

[@francoisleveille409]

Dear David, there are many things you stumbled on which I could have helped you so much with. Recently I moved away from C64 stuff to do more complex things.

[@plgDavid]

Salut vieux. Je sais. Tu bosses sur quoi ces jours ci?

[@francoisleveille409]

@@plgDavid Les machines d'arcade CAVE (Japon). Je construit un système pour avoir plus de 20 jeux disponibles sur un seul appareil. On utilise Teensy et Raspberry Pi Pico pour switcher d'un jeux a l'autre. Tcheck mes textos!! Je roule le Teensy 4.1 a 816MHz pour remplacer le contenu de la Flash en un clin d’œil. Fichiers sur uSD.

[@francoisleveille409]

@@plgDavid Machines d'arcade CAVE (STG Japon) kzbin.info/www/bejne/kIDEd6Kgo9lnrdEsi=1pctMr6Bcl7-b3ZC

[@BarnokRetro]

Wow! Glad your buddy had a C64 growing up to draw you in, this has been fascinating!

[@nkronert]

Your dedication is mind boggling! ❤

[@darwiniandude]

This is crazy! I also recorded a friend's C64 to a boombox to bring home before I had one, and when I did have one, cut up a DIN cable to get the audio line out into a proper old radiogram I had for proper amplification instead of the tinny TV speaker. Thank you for all your hard work, I can't wait to get it :)

[@Average-AL]

That is very impressive attention to detail. Almost worth buying it just as an applause.

[@ShirobonMusic]

Incredible work!!

[@plgDavid]

Hit me up ;)

[@HiskoArt]

Absolutely astounding! The sheer magnitude of effort involved truly boggles my mind. The SID chip and C64 shaped my childhood, and I am profoundly grateful for all the endeavors dedicated to ensuring its everlasting presence!

[@HAGSLAB]

Love this! 👏🏻 I've been toying with a naive SID implementation on my toy C64 emulator. I was happy just to get any sound 😂 The amount of work done here is amazing!

[@neonvoid]

incredible work

[@terryrussell8527]

You're doing good work here sir!

[@nigelhungerford-symes5059]

Very cool. Was always hoping someone would ve crazy enough to do something like this before the opportunity was lost forever.

[@adriannaharouff8916]

i live under a rock - so i didnt know you existed until right now. thanks for the great video! thats some cool work you're doing!

[@noisebynight119]

Unbelievable amount of detail and work, truly amazing and will be buying this amazing piece of software, mind blown 😛

[@mu7095]

It was mind blowing in it's time..I was the same, couldn't get enough of the cool tunes! Rob Hubbard and Martin Galway were amazing. Great work keeping sid alive and kicking today!

[@p4radigm989]

I dont make music, but I love your work, and of course love the SID chip sound. amazing, all the work that you did. I made some intros on C64. haha. using Last Ninja songs, I think The Wilderness. This song nearly used too much raster time to play in my intro, I remember having to fix something so it didn't cause scroller to get jerky.

[@mand6029]

very exciting and very interesting technology , brilliant DAVID, i am completely blown away by the implemented piece of technology

[@SchardtCinematic]

I already had a C=64 since 1985. Loved playing SID music a lot I on the other hand took a blank tape to a friend's house to record the adlib version of the Ultima 6 boot up and intro music and also the character creation music. Plus had my friend take screen shots and save them as GIFS. So then over the modem he could send me the GIFS of Ultima 6 and I was able to see a crude version decoded on my C=64 with a Gif Viewer.

[@cybergwen]

You are such a nerd! This is amazing! Your synth is amazing!

[@TLF64]

Wow, so in depth, so happy I have found these videos!

[@bakisha]

Awesome work, i'm amazed with detailed work done! I once tried to understand the inner working of SID and was overwhelmed of complexity of it. Ended up with "good enough" emulation for PlaySID files, and i won't even dare to try cycle emulate all C64 chips for RealSID playback...

[@low_e_music]

This is absolutely incredible! The amount of work, time, reverse engineering, testing, etc. is just unfathomable. Will definitely be picking this up, thank you!

[@Frankonero12]

I understood almost 2% of this video. And still i was one of the five that made it until the end 😁. I love SID music since i had my c64 in 1987 and still listen everyday to SID music while playing modern games.

[@plgDavid]

Loving the SID is what counts!

[@andresjoberg]

Speechless … so looking forward to testing this synth out :D

[@UrsHeckmannBerlin]

Brilliant!

[@plgDavid]

The honour mate.

[@soundfx68]

I'm so getting Chipsynth! I have a 6581 based SidStation (Ninja!) - while the filter is so dirty and full of character it 'breaks' too soon when playing, for example, Terra Cresta. EDIT - this research is mind blowing!

[@plgDavid]

Nice! We didnt have a SidStation to try with our ASID output, guess we will find out.

[@soundfx68]

@@plgDavid I'll test ASID one day, bit of a faff for me atm. I've just re-downloaded the HVSC to a new-ish PC, I've never heard Arkanoid sound so good, I can feel my sub! I might have a few suggestions and a visual bug to report, where is best David, fellow David here :D

[@poofygoof]

I nuked the stock 6581R4(A?) that came with my sidstation trying to filter external audio with it, and replaced it with a 1984 6581(R1) that was from my (failed) childhood C64. the filter breakup has a property that makes me melancholy, like the sound is flailing for air while drowning. the sidstation firmware likes to crash, and you can tell the whole thing was a college project based on the design, and I still love it, but I am a little excited to be able to get the same sounds without having to deal with flaky hardware.

[@TheGunnarRoxen]

This level of insanity is truly amazing. I love your obsession. What a fantastic achievement!

[@muco007]

Love, Love, Love, your work. Thank you!

[@thalosheadsson9418]

My mind is blown by the amount of work put into this. Bravo sir, bravo

[@AndreasToth]

The dedication and passion demonstrated in this video is just incredible! Wow!

[@DigitalFacts]

This is really really informative stuff. Thanks for sharing. I am glad that chipsynthC64 finally sees the light of day. Please keep up your brilliant work. Much appreciated from each and every vintage sound blippybloppy chip lover!!! :) Any plans to do output routing of different sid voices/oscillators to different audio outputs of the VST? That would be awesome.

[@plgDavid]

Thanks for the suggestion. The prob with that is it would mean 3x 1MHz downsampling and it would be a CPU eating monster. (more than it is).

[@DigitalFacts]

​@@plgDavid Ok, got it. Speaking of suggestions: Is it possible to route the notedata/midi notes of each channel to a midi track inside your favourite daw? Currently I am looking on the plugin from a remixers point of view. It would be really helpful to transmit the notes from each voice to a midi track for further editing/remixing purposes. Currently one has to convert the sid file with sid2midi to get somewhat more or less accurate note data or find out the notes by ear. Would be really helpful in this case.

[@plgDavid]

@@DigitalFacts we've been asked that in the past, but it would never be a perfect MIDI output, just like with the frame sequence grabber and it becomes a support nightmare. Cheers

[@DigitalFacts]

@@plgDavidThanks David. I can relate. These things would be the cherry on the cake. As said before, you did an amazing job with the recreation of the SID. You should team up with the guys over at WinVICE, the C64 emulator. Maybe they can include your SID engine into the emulator?

[@tiemanowo]

Now I know why so many SIDs disappeared from the market..... Jokes aside. Fantastic work!

[@plgDavid]

😁A lot of those come from my ... 12 (ish) C64s, 2x 128 and MAX haha. Commodore lifer.

[@The_Mister_E]

Congratulations! It was a long time coming, for sure!

[@Mr-Micro]

you have done You've done an incredible job, and I can only offer my heartfelt compliments. You are preserving the essence of SID, its analog side, forever.

[@BleughBleugh]

Wowow…gained a subscriber! Thankyou to the great algorithm!

[@l0g1cb0mb]

The amount of analysis is mind blowing, wow! XD That's "science" for those that say they love the science! Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, love it!

[@dinkc64]

Wow, what a treat - another plgDavid video!

[@MOS6582]

Love everything about this video.

[@38911bytefree]

Amazing job !!!. Hard to believe there was so much variation across SIDs !!!!!!!

[@kcrosley]

You’re so crazy in a good way!

[@mudi2000a]

Epic!! The sound of my youth! I loved to connect the 64 to the stereo and blasted my favorite tunes! It sounded so good! Unfortunately I don’t have a real 64 anymore. But for sure I will buy the plugin! Thank you!

[@chotaire]

That is truely impressive. This goes into my shopping basket out of respect.

[@Commodoreretro-programming]

Excellent. Bravo pour la vidéo et ce projet grandiose. On ressent la passion et le plaisir qui t'anime. Le début de la vidéo m'a ramené des dizaines d'années en arrière quand j'éprouvais le même emballement à entendre le son et voir la vidéo de cet ordinateur mythique qu'est le Commodore 64. Je me suis lancé aussi dans un projet passion. Je recense le savoir en LM sur le Commodore 64, je le structure et je prépare un livre pour la communauté francophone. Beaucoup de travail...

[@plgDavid]

Merci! Intéressant matériel sur votre chaine. La trigo en 6502 fun :) !

[@proteque]

This is fantastic! Looking forward to learning the new synth.

[@TheSulross]

Rather figured that the technological prowess to recreate the SID wasn't really viable any longer - better to expend effort on something more feasible like utility grid nuclear fusion power.

[@xgmode]

Amazing the amount of work you punt into this, much respect! A truly excellent plugin release.

[@mrsid6581]

Absolutely groundbreaking stuff! Hats off!

[@Ray-ej3jb]

This popped up by the YT algorithm, not seen your channel before! Can I just say the work that you have done and what you have done is FUCKING AMAZING!! (And that's from an Atari 800 fanboy)

[@hammondeggsmusic]

Very cool. A long time ago I created a plug-in for the old VCV rack that would play most psid/rsid files and output virtual CV/gate for the whole chip. Yep - you really do need to emulate more than the CPU and the sid, even the PLA too! I’ve got my Daisy patch playing sid files and will output CV/gate for one of the voices….I should probably make a video about that!

[@plgDavid]

Right?

[@PlasticCogLiquid]

The SID chip is one of my favorite things in the world. There's nothing else that ever sounded quite like it.

[@v-1nce]

welp, i can't abide a gap in the chipsynth collection... awesome work as usual, and the insight into your development process is always appreciated!

[@chazlabreck]

Nothing sounds like the real thing..but good work,,,amazing hard work actually...

[@BCThunderthud]

So great to hear from you whatever you're working on, but this is the big one. Woohoo!

[@borayurt66]

I wish there was a simple .sid player that incorporates this enormous data on different versions of the SID chip. It would be an invaluable tool for us "non-musical" people that do C64 repairs and want to compare a suspected bad SID's output to what it should be.

[@75slaine]

🤯Amazing work, thank you so much for the efforts that went into capturing all this.

[@simonlockett9152]

I’m not usually one for VSTi’s in general but this looks fucking outstanding- great video aswell 👽

[@sillonbono3196]

You had me with my jaw on the floor. I also took a cassette recorder to record Commando's music when I was 13!!!

[@sieglindegeruldis5841]

Priceless

[@bosonbreeder]

As an European it's so weird hearing the Commando soundtrack on a 60 Hz C64. That tempo is crazy fast.

[@plgDavid]

As a Canadian it was a shock to hear it at its ‘normal’ speed later on in life I feel you

[@jaymzjulian]

I love everything about this

[@crazyivan030983]

This is the heavy side of the hobby :) very cool research :)

[@gir489returns2]

Absolutely stellar the amount of work that must've gone into this.

[@marknhopgood]

Oh yeah - I'm sure I used your synth or something like it in the track "Baby You're My Kind Of Weird" by Mairk

[@enderjed2523]

Excellent to see another chipresearch!

[@jammerc64]

Really in-depth material!

[@plgDavid]

Really honoured! Your music was a _real_ tough test on our emu! :) Thank you so much!

[@jammerc64]

@@plgDavid you may wanna test more recent tunes as they probably abuse plenty of things as well. Including post testbit behaviour which emulators don't handle at all so far. Or ADSR bug which cuts sounds 'randomly' (which for a change is already emulated in Vice).

[@plgDavid]

@@jammerc64Ah sure (scared now) haha, which tracks? Feel free to contact me for an NFR (use the contact form on our web site).

[@nothingmemorable486]

Excellent sounds

[@Wishbone1977]

This was fascinating (and daunting). I'm working on writing a C64 emulator from scratch, just to see if I can do it. I'm still working on the CPU, and look forward to trying to tackle the SID with equal parts anticipation and dread.

[@plgDavid]

But thats the fun part

[@rktic909]

I just realized I was still hoping to ship that stack of C64s to you. And then realized we had that conversation thr...four(?) years ago. In case anyone wonders if he really means 'there go two years of my life': I'm afraid so :) Congratulations to 1.0! 🥰

[@plgDavid]

Darn so I shouldn't have shown all those machines in my video. You know me I would hoard ALL THE THINGZ.

[@GoWithAndy-cp8tz]

Unbelievable! Cheers!

[@LaLa-6581]

Sir, you are certifiably crazy! 🤪 My hats off to you!!! I do have to take an exception with one of your statements, though ( @7:00). I'm not trying to defend my record as one of the people who had a hand in the SID file specification document, BUT the document clearly states: "The RSID format was designed to contain tunes that are not PlaySID compatible, but strictly require a real C64 environment to run." Let me repeat that again: REQUIRE a REAL C64 environment to run. Which includes emulation of all the other chips, too. 😀 Maybe that should be more prominent in the document in big blinking red font... 😉 Also, all the SID tunes seem to play too fast in your video. NTSC vs PAL differences?...

[@plgDavid]

Yes we recorded nearly everything using our own local NTSC C64s. I got a PAL C64C only for 8580 stuff. I may be tired but I was talking about PSID files that act like RSIDs.

[@LaLa-6581]

@@plgDavid Please, do report those masquerading PSID files to the HVSC Crew, they really should be changed to RSID.

[@plgDavid]

@@LaLa-6581 actually I think I will make a few special tweaks to my batch loader (loads all HVSC and so far only checked for crashes on my end) 1) check if PSIDs try and access the VIC-II or CIA 2)call/read KERNAL/BASIC regions (breaks open roms) 3) well generate any audio on my side - quite a few reported so far. Its normal as this core is 100% different than the great many decades of the main sidplayers.

[@plgDavid]

And publish of course

[@FrazerSmithsChannel]

Great work.

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

Recording chip tunes to cassette and taking them home? :D I did the same with my uncle's Sega Mega Drive back in 1993 or so. x3 Game Music has also always been something that always connected me the most to the whole Sound Architecture of 8 bit and 16 bit consoles. Really appreciating them as Synthesizers that played games. And that is why i still appreciate them so much after all those years and have deep respect towards any composer who showed us the beauty of the musicality of the 8 bit and 16 bit era.

[@poofygoof]

I used to load up cracktros and demos while I was doing my homework to listen to the songs...

[@arvidolsen]

Need another challenging song that doesn't sound the same on any SID? Yie Ar Kung Fu 2 (intro), Martin Galway :)

[@claudiusraphael9423]

6:32 "It can not play vintage tracks .." - and i just knew what would come - thy punchslashkickatomicdripdrop!

[@MeriaDuck]

That intro sound hit straight in the nostalgia senses 😂

[@dr.ignacioglez.9677]

I REALY LOVE MY C64 ❤❤❤❤ FOREVER ❤❤❤❤❤

[@curiousgeorge7515]

Incredible! I'd like to see an article on how to do 8 bit digi's, especially in higher sample rates. Cover the various methods such as vicious sid.

[@plgDavid]

Hi, You`ve seen this? codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base%3Avicious_sid_demo_routine_explained

[@plgDavid]

Otherwise theres also the Music Run Stop pdf, not sure where it is online now.

[@curiousgeorge7515]

@@plgDavid Thanks! One more thing, from your research, is there a reliable way to do chip detection?

[@plgDavid]

Didn't investigate that as much as much since we really cared on making the analog output the same. C64-side detection routines have to rely on reading OSC3/ENV3 and various sceners have already devised plenty of routines to check for 6581 or 8580 - which we actually had to support too. Some better than others. @@curiousgeorge7515

[@mpusch88]

Plogue is amazing, probably my favourite audio company

[@MarkTDKKnight]

Oh my - what HAVE you created David!!!! This sounds, and the spec, is amazing. I'm so rammed with work atm but have bought ready for when I do have time. Absolutely amazing David (but why so cheap?)

[@nichttuntun3364]

When people went nuts about the C64, I had a Sinclair ZX Spectrum and I still love this little machine. Today I use an emulator as my Specci was more broken than working from a certain time. Nevertheless, as a synth freak I highly appreciate what you have accomplished and what amount of research work you put into this. As always, I'll buy your new synth to keep up the support. What you do is crazy and that's exactly what we need. 🎉❤ David, I got a question on my mind. I love the OP7 and I think it's the non plus ultra emulation of a DX7 so far. Nevertheless, it's not quite there with the hardware yet, as the DX7 has a better voice separation, so it's clearer, it has stronger transients and more punch in the low end and the highend is more silky on the hardware unit and seems to have a bit more nonlinearity to it. I got lots of hardware synth and a sensible ear for small details. Speakers are Dynaudio LYD48. While I think your synths are nailing the core sound chips of the originals, I feel the emulations are missing the rest of the hardware components, meaning the complete output circuitry and all it's hardware parts and components the audio has to go all the way through, including the L and R component differences. I'm eager to know if you will take such eminent components into account in future research, utterly hoping to see an update for the OP7 ones day. Greetings.

[@static-san]

I bet the creators of the SID chip (who later went on to found Ensoniq) would be totally blow away by all of this. :-)

[@plgDavid]

Would love to have a coffee with Yannes

[@deeklithgow1765]

Very interesting! Thank you for your great work David!

[@Manawyrm]

This was a wild ride, I'll have to say! Great work!