Pocket hole jigs are in trouble

[@316woodworks9]

I'll buy it. Everyone that's used a pocket hole, 100 percent says, and I'd bet my right hand on it, I wish I had clamped that better. 3 degrees vs 15 degrees is massive.f9r shifting wood. I didn't even think it was possible. I had too much faith in Mr. kregg. The 2 step process is not a deal breaker because of the quality of results with this one. You gave quite a service with this videos and man, I learned a lot. Thank you so much. You earned my subscription

[@esixx17]

Extra steps to turn it on, extra steps to drill the holes, extra step to turn it off, extra parts to keep track of. the cut looks better doesnt matter to me because the holes end up hidden. I see myself breaking drill bits. Not enough benefits for me to change until my Kregs dies. Metal vs plastic and storage size might be the most important things for me in the future.

[@bentswoodworking]

It’s not for everyone

[@DKWalser]

The fact the Castle machine produces cleaner holes is, for the reason you mentioned, the LEAST important advantage of the Castle jig over Kreg. After all, if the holes will be hidden from view, minor cosmetic differences in cut quality are immaterial. However, the MOST important advantage of the Castle jig is that it produces a superior, stronger, joint. The screws in Kreg's pocket holes are, in essence, 'toe-nailed' into the mating piece. The screw doesn't pull the two pieces straight together. It pulls them at an angle. The Castle, in contrast, 'straight nails' the two pieces together. Not only are the resulting joints less likely to be misaligned (unless securely clamped), the joint is stronger because screw is (virtually) directly in line with the joint. Does this mean the Kreg jig produces bad joints? No! Kreg produces strong joints, but Castle produces stronger joints and is much easier to use. In college, I worked in a professional cabinet shop making kitchen cabinets. Many of our joints were made using a floor-standing pocket hole jig that cut holes exactly like those produced by Castle's jig. Some 20 years after I graduated, I established my own hobby wood shop. One of the first things I bought was a Kreg pocket hole jig. The first time I used it I became so frustrated with it I almost through the Kreg jig across the shop. The screws kept pulling my parts out of alignment! That was exactly the opposite of what I was used to with Castle-style pocket holes! With the Kreg jig, I quickly learned I needed to securely clamp the parts together before inserting the pocket screws. Once you've used properly cut pocket holes, you won't want to use a Kreg-style jig. Having said that, I have and use a Kreg jig. I do not have a Castle jig. Why? Because I don't use pocket holes very often.

[@stevesullivan2432]

I'll stick to the kreg

[@rharris22222]

​@David Walser Apologies for a very late reply but this just popped up on my list. A thought on the stronger joint argument. It is true, of course, but I think calling the Kreg joint "Toenailed" greatly exaggerats the real effect. When you think of toenailing, like studs in a remodel, it really is a low strength tack joint. But how about the Kreg 15 degree angle vs. 3 degree? Well, this isn't a perfect comparison, but assuming same screw sizes and tightness, the force pulling the joint together at right angles would be cosine of the angle. Cosine of 3 degrees is 0.999. Cosine of 15 degrees is 0.966. That's a difference of 3%. That's less than many of the other variables involved in the strength of a pocket screwed wood joint.

[@TheWhitsboy]

It all comes down to whether you want to do a great job or a mediocre job.

[@josephspina7827]

I’m a DIYer, hobbyist and Yes i do own a Castle 110 pocket hole machine and i also own a $99 Kreg with lots of extra bells and whistle extras. I won the Castle pocket hole machine in a raffle at a woodworking show in NJ two years ago (it took about 6 months to receive it because 110 model was still under production). The castle It’s a better machine, it makes a cleaner hole but the extra step is cumbersome but worth it and more refined. When i used the kreg 10 years ago to put together 5 closets and a 8’ walk-in closet ( about 1000 screws and 20 sheets of prefinished plywood later or so) it was very practical and useful . To make a good judgement on either pocket hole machines look at your application and needs for me after i put everything together you can’t tell what you used

[@bentswoodworking]

Great points, thanks!

[@castleusa2792]

Joe, we remember you from the show. I'm glad you like the machine.

[@s9plus20]

Yes, I have one. I got one when they first came out, a model 100. That one doesn't have the quick clamp and the motor is a Bosch Colt router. Works great!! The Castle system uses BOTH square head and torx head screws. You can get them directly from Castle. The Castle system is NOT compatible with the Kreg screws because their screw head is too wide for the narrow pocked cut by the Castle. I have found the Castle company is great to work with.

[@davidjowett8195]

Whilst I'm not in the market for any woodworking tools I enjoy woodworking videos. I love this review because 1. You description of the tool under test is very clear and precise. 2. The comparrison between the tools (cutaway side view) and explanation was very good. 3. Your pros and cons were very good and came across as honest. Given that the tools are similar in price the versatility and handiness of the Castle product would make it a winner for me. It's a shame that they don't do a 240V export model.

[@mikegraham7078]

Stumpy has shown this tool on his "Cool Tools" segment before, and he likes it a lot. A benefit of this machine that I don't hear mentioned is the ability to cut the pocket holes on the inside of the cabinet without major loss of structural strength. With a 15 degree screw if you drill from the inside out the screws are supported by very little material. At 3 degrees the inside hole is almost as strong as the outside hole. If the cabinet is finished on the outside this can be a MAJOR PLUS because the holes when inside are invisible if there are drawers and they could be hidden by a thin board if it's a cupboard.

[@michaell8835]

Agreed, I was thinking exactly the same 👍🏻

[@bentswoodworking]

That’s a great addition that I should have mentioned

[@parrot340]

On their website it says its 6 degrees dont know if that woould make much difrence.

[@missingegg]

@@parrot340 The other Castle machines are 6 degrees, but this one is three. Not sure why they changed for this particular machine.

[@sudo936]

inside?

[@miltonshaw7]

I bought a Porter Cable pocket hole cutter that uses a router and separate drill similar to the Castle system about 40 years or so ago. Still have it and use it occasionally. I too like the lower angle of the screw for keeping the joints in line. Just saw your year old demo of the difference.

[@geolisadrag-racing2349]

I just came back to watch this video a second time; before i share it with a group of builders, like myself, with medical limitations. Ypu did a fantastic job with this video, the comparison and review. When i saw it in my feed in Nov. I couldn't help but start an outline in my mind of what i wanted to know about the machine, and you hit on every bullet point, and then some! Your visual and description of the 3 degree pocket, something all of the Castle's have in common, highlighted it better than their own advertising. Thank You so much for putting in the research and work. For us, pocket hole jigs and such are more like medical aids. For over a year now my group has frequently discussed the merits of the TSM-12, Castle's Benchtop Pocket Hole Machine. I guess we consider it and the Kreg Foreman, Shop Fox and others like them, to be "fully automatic". Therefore, I've always, thought the TSM-12, more of an apples to apples compare to the Foreman; however, I get asked a lot about the 110, because it is closer in price. I am so glad I can now share this video with them and know it will give them the answers about this model, that i did not have. I am very appreciative of all of the content creators here on KZbin, but it is clear that you take your job and the responsibility of providing accurate information more serious than others, and really put in the work. Thanks You. ~ 🔨Lisa♿

[@steveferguson1232]

When I worked in a custom cabinet and furniture shop in Florida, we had 3 castle pocket hole floor standing models. We used these only for face frames and stiffeners(stringers). Great machine

[@garretdouglas4056]

The smaller angle on the Castle would be great but I do a lot of face frames and find the Kreg K5 works great and very portable.

[@alandesgrange9703]

Yes. I've seen the Castle before. I've had some Kreg stuff over the years, and always thought it was kind of expensive for plastic. Hands down, I would take the Castle over the Kreg. The big selling points for me, is that it's considerably smaller for storage, and you can bring the machine to the work.

[@bentswoodworking]

The smaller size is great.

[@Ratheon1075]

I worked in a cabinet shop where we used the Castle floor model and it is super fast and has a great cut. Single action with a foot pedal is great and you can fly through a bunch of pocket holes. I do like the lower angle of the screw however it can still walk so we always clamped the face frames even with the lower angle. With that said the machine was over $7,000 so it should be as awesome and fast as it is. I have since left that shop and wanted a pocket hole machine for my personal shop. Given how much I liked the machine I had used before I went straight to Castle and without much thought doled out over $500 for the 110. The pocket holes were of similar quality as the big machine but I really missed that foot pedal. You said it was a 2 step process and I would argue it is in fact a four step process. Clamp, Route, Drill, Unclamp. After the first set of cabinets I made in my shop I had grown tired of the four step process and longed for that foot pedal even more. Unfortunately I can't justify thousands of dollars when my production is no where near the level of the cabinet shop I worked in. I had seen the Kreg foreman but I discounted it because of some videos much like this one. I got an order for another set of cabinets and the thought of doing all of those pocket holes again made me decide to give the Kreg a try, It seemed to be as close as I could get to what I had used before while also being in my budget. I used it for the next set of cabinets and found many of the same concerns you mentioned. I had always clamped my face frames so that wasn't anything new but I would say it is an absolute must with the Kreg. You might get away without clamping on the castle but clamping really is best practice with either machine. If nothing else it will save you some sanding. The quality of the cut is definitely better on the Castle but the Kreg isn't what I would consider bad, and since pocket holes should be and are mostly hidden this did not concern me. The increased angle makes the Kreg virtually unusable IMHO for outside corners when the pocket is on the inside, especially in plywood. However if the pocket is on the outside I found it to be stronger than the Castle joint and if you think about it, it makes since why this would be. The feature that made me decide to keep the Kreg and sell my Castle 110 was the reduction from four steps to one. I could batch out pocket holes substantially faster on the Kreg. The joints were just as strong and saved me a ton of time. The larger table surface was another feature I really liked. The dust collection on the Kreg works better than the 110. Everything can be done from a single position from in front of the machine. It just made the process so much faster. If both machines were the same price I would still go with the Kreg based on time savings alone. The Castle is a very well built machine and I have no doubt it would have lasted me a lifetime. But if nothing more than just time saved if I ever had to replace the Kreg, which other than utilizing some plastic parts is built pretty well, it will have paid for itself. The Kreg Foreman is no Castle TSM30, not by a long shot, but in my opinion superior at least in operation and features to the 110. I think most woodworkers could probably get by with some of the hand clamp jigs. There are a bunch of much cheaper options in that category and in all honesty in some ways the 110 is more comparable in operation/number of steps to some of those than it is the Foreman. It is a nice machine though and if you have extra money burning a hole in your pocket and you don't mind the extra time/steps it is a quality machine. The Kreg Foreman would be more comparable in features to the Castle TSM12 but it has a price double that of even the 110.

[@heruvey87]

i agree, as soon as i saw you had to drill through the back i was like nope. for me is the Kreg foreman untill i can afford the 1 step castle

[@ChrisTietjen_00]

I've also used the Castle floor model in the production shop setting. Like you say, it's really sweet. You've got to love the foot pedal. I never would have guessed it was that expensive.😬

[@krzymike]

You can purchase a foot pedal cord for about $25. Just connect it to power and plug in your tool to the foot pedal cord.

[@Sembazuru]

Another minor thing that I noticed is because of the design of the two action castle, the pilot hole will always be a through-hole. But the Kraig may not always drill the pilot hole through. For example, the example you showed with the Kraig on the edge of the wood for the cross-section view did not get the pilot all the way to the edge of the wood.

[@TheMusicman961]

I always set my Kreg drill a bit short of the material thickness so it will not poke through, the problem with wood you buy from the big box stores is that it's not always 1/2 or 3/4 inch. Can't tell you how many times I have had screws poke through because I set it to 3/4 the realize the plywood is a 1/6 or even1/8 shy of 3/4 sometimes. Now I bring a measuring tape to the store and measure the thickness. This is especially important when you are routing or daddoing a 3/4 inch rabbit and you realize that the peice you are marrying to the rabbit is less than 3/4 UGH! is all you can say at that point :)

[@petermartucci6534]

The fact that you can clamp the panel to the bench and bring the tool to the material is a game changer. I can see the cons of the castle, but they aren’t permanent cons which is a big deal. Great video, thanks for doing it.

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you found it helpful

[@chefsteven34]

I wish this video was released when I bought the KREG Forman last year. The Forman lives in my tool trailer. It’s such a battle to collapse the Forman’s handle, I just leave it alone. It appears I could store six of the castles in the same footprint as the Forman. Thank you for the informative video.

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you found it helpful

[@MrThenry1988]

I haven't had troubles with the kreg. I use the grips and the hand held clamp. Real cheap and quick. Ive even wore out a few. I dont worry about dust collection from a drill.

[@rryybass]

Hi Bent I built my own pocket hole machine using 2 routers and only 1 clap, years ago and at 5 degrees so its shallow and works very well and has done for nearly 10 years, but I see the castle machine is 3 not 2 movements, but its a very good video, so thank you

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@jonathand5883]

Great comparison video Jason. I had the Kreg foreman for a few years and really put it to use but I upgraded to the Castle when they first released the 110. One thing I think you forgot to mention was the thickness of the material that can be used with both machines. If you are someone first starting out, building Ana White furniture like a lot of us have, I would suggest the Kreg. I don't know the exact maximum thicknesses off the top of my head but I know the Kreg accommodates thicker material. That being said , if you do cabinets and face frame construction , the castle is far superior. I will say, if you have the money and the space, upgrade to the Castle TSM-12 so you don't have the two step process, however bringing the 110 to your material instead of the material to the machine does come in handy in some situations.

[@bentswoodworking]

I would like to try the TSM 12 myself

[@douglasvannorden9865]

Jason - Another superb video, well done! There is just one aspect of the difference between the tools that you didn't seem to mention: hole filler plugs. Kreg has done a good job of both retailing filler plugs and selling users the tools to drill and fit their own plugs from the same (or contrasting) materials they're fastening. That's kind of a big deal under certain circumstances. The Castle 110 is a handsome machine. But apart from smoothing over its pocket holes with filler, it doesn't quite meet the Kreg in that aspect of its value proposition. Again, great job! Always a fan, D v N

[@IAmKyleBrown]

Fair point. However, Ive had a chance to use one, and since it produces a "square" slot, very easy to fill with a piece of wood, with grain matching.

[@wahoohoo6864]

Looks like a great machine. I do think you missed a comparison in favor of the Kreg, that is the Castle routs a pocket where the bearing surface of the screw is rounded. Thats why they use a narrower screw head. With the Kreg you have a flatter surface so you can use the washer head screws. I think it would be interesting to see a joint strength comparison.

[@brettsherman7810]

Yeah I wondered about that too. But since it’s a shallow angle, overdriving the screw is not such a big deal like it is on the Kreg.

[@sandmandave2008]

That would be nice to see and I'm thinking both machines would make a strong enough joint. After all, pocket holes aren't used for high strength requirements, BUT, did you look at the price? Kreg Foreman is down to $399, the Castle is now (just one year after the video was made) (drum roll) $674.85 !!!! WOW what an increase. For sure it's only for production shops.

[@53JolietJake]

Ordered my Castle 110 this past Thursday. I am glad I did because now with your video they are going be on backorder. Sometimes I get lucky. Looking forward to using it. Nice explanation and nice video. Thanks.

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you found it helpful

[@wcisean]

Been using the tsm-22 for decades works great! Mine is set up for 1/2 " stock 3/4" stock and 1" stock !

[@bentswoodworking]

Nice!

[@wcisean]

@@bentswoodworking I've only had 1 trim router that drill's the hole go bad on current machine in about 12 years so very reliable in my opinion!

[@RogueCorps]

Great breakdown of the two machines, and the section views really tell a lot! That's pretty brilliant that the router cut is straight but radiused. From the side view I couldn't tell if the Castle bit can be directly straight to the screw and if the star drive makes up for driving at an angle. In addition to the two step process you're showing, I have to comment that the power switch is in a really weird spot reaching into a hole. I have an older manual machine bought from Mark Sommerfeld and it's great for my weekend projects. The results from the Castle are really impressive, but it does look like a 3 step process to me.

[@robertkerby2581]

Wow, you did an amazing job demonstrating the Castle Pocket Hole machine! You have given me a new perspective on the quality of pocket holes! Well done!

[@HondoTrailside]

I think the one thing you may not have mentioned is that it is way more compact, and it is also beautiful. Beautiful, is maybe a weird thing to say, but this is something that can share space on a wall with my rack of Japanese chisels, if I could get one.

[@g.m.forsythe9626]

Kreg's machine is on sale (November 2022) at $349 while the Castle is at $660. The difference in price is no longer minimal.

[@dalew9689]

At $450 I was ready to buy. At 660 I'll pass.

[@aaronoconnor606]

Everything has gone up the one that I was looking at was 1200.00 now they want 1700.00. I would sooner just use domino's or biscuits or just face screw and veneer over top

[@jt5747]

It's Putin's price hike. No joke!

[@AlexRodoni]

Castle makes a bigger machine that has 2 routers. One for the pocket and one to drill the hole. Much faster than your castle machine but also 2-3x the price

[@WalnutAlley]

You gave a good review. As someone who has used Castle machines for 20+ years, the CSI, the TSM-30, and TSM-22, I can tell you they are not without their issues. Good machines nonetheless. Kreg also makes a spindle type Industrial machine which works well in my experience. After all that experience, I still chose the Kreg Foreman for my small home shop. In my opinion, if I were doing A LOT of pocket hole joinery, I would at least opt for the TSM-22. I know it's expensive, but if you can pay for a Sawstop, you can buy it. It will bring you into the realm of what intermediate production shops are using, and it still uses 2 inexpensive routers to do the cutting and drilling should they need replacement.

[@sixpotshot]

Excellent presentation and an amazing little machine. Other pluses I appreciate: all metal construction and the joints are way much stronger than a Kreg's can do, again due to the drilling angle. Thank you for posting

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you found it helpful

[@rjtumble]

James at "Stumpy Nubs" introduced me to this tool quite a while ago. He's also a big big fan.

[@tomim7187]

I have the Castle 110 and it has made a huge difference in my work. It was so good, I got rid of my Kreg Table top machine, as good as it is. The Castle is a VERY expensive machine and I have a professional cabinet shop, so it made sense. The quality of the Castle is far superior and cuts very clean and precise slots.

[@Bwbravowhiskey]

I’ve used this one. You have to use a a drill for the hole. Usually comes with the Bosch colt trim router. Cuts a beautiful pocket. Extremely well made. I might get one at some point. Right now the shop I work at has a castle 2100 I think.

[@Bwbravowhiskey]

@Fist Bump really? Did not know that, I only had access to this machine for a couple of months. The shop I’m at has a colt trim router. I’ve only used it once since I have makita cordless trim routers

[@castleusa2792]

@Fist Bump We have actually had great success with the Bosch routers. We used to used Porter Cable routers, but they had quality issues towards the end. Of course now, PC doesn't even make routers any more.

[@castleusa2792]

Its was most likely a TSM-21, The TSM-22 is the latest version of that machine.

[@Ron-FabandBuild]

Thank you for the review. I have been using the Kreg system for years and often wondered if there was an alternative that was better in application and functionality. You have hit the nail on the head here. I am always finding a use for pocket holes I many applications but have always disliked the cons on the Kreg system that you have mentioned here. Thank you again. I will be looking into adding this to my shopped replacing the Kreg system that I have had for years.

[@jamieal-shamma9800]

We own 3 Castle machines. Kreg is simply the wrong way to do it. We have floor machine TSM22 (purchased 12 years ago), benchtop TSM12 (8 years ago) and the one featured in this video (actually the 100 purchased 4 years ago which was how it came first to market not the 110, newer, featured in this video). All 3 of the are used frequently and have served us well. Not mentioned in the video is service. Especially the bigger machines are shop tools and need service occasionally. The Customer service is great. English speaking people answer the phone and the first person to answer is the same person that solves your problem. Great products, great company.

[@TheEricSchubert]

As a simple hobbyist that doesn't do much with pocket holes right now, this was really interesting. I would love the Castle product, if I did lots of pocket hole joinery. But the big turn-off is the super-loud router motor. I'm surprised for the cost (currently $679 on their website) that there's no quieter motor used here. Sure, it may not be marketed toward the weekend woodworker, but even commercial shops must value quieter tools.

[@mahto54]

The only plus I see for me anyway is the look of the pocket. I've done pocket hole for so long that even with clamping the parts to my table , I still a lot faster with my Kregs. I typically use more traditional methods of joinery but building boxes or faceframes to boxes I will use pockets where they are not seen anyway. That being said I do love the clean look! Nice review thank you!!

[@thenorwegianmaker]

Since shooting this video the pricing has changed considerably. The Kreg Foreman is listed at $399,- and the 110 at $660,- That said, I will most likely purchase the Castel 110 based on your video. Thank you for a good review!

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you found it helpful

[@drich6816]

seems like a big price up in this short amount of time

[@chipsterb4946]

I recently built a simple 3 shelf bookcase using pocket holes. Part of my objective was to convince myself NOT to buy a Festool domino. I failed. The material shift is really annoying, although I know it can be overcome with clamping. However, I also had to put the pockets on the bottom of the shelves for asthetivs and function. That meant the screws were angling *downward* at 15 degrees. With the Castle pocket the screws would be much closer to perpendicular to the shearing force. I think the shallower angle also is a bigger deal with face frames which is an application where I’d like to use pocket holes. Having the screws perpendicular to the joint just makes sense to me. Cost wise I could buy the Castle pocket hole machine and a good biscuit cutter for a LOT less than a Festool Domino with the extra cutters and biscuits. To me, there are multiple applications where I’d use a domino more for alignment than strength, such as edge joining, and biscuits would be just as effective and cheaper there.

[@thenorwegianmaker]

@@chipsterb4946 Well, I had a job requiring me to purchase the 500 and 700 Domino. But I would still consider the Castle.

[@patjoja]

Excellent review, Jason! Thanks for demonstrating a better way to make pocket holes that are clean and tight.

[@StevenGambino]

Hi, Good job! I've had the Castle 110 for about a year, and your comments were spot-on. I've used Kreg products for about 20 years, and until I heard of Castle (the fabulous floor standing unit), it served its purpose. However, lately I've been burned with Kreg products, specifically their corner clamps. I purchased a set, tried them, and they would NOT hold the workpieces square. not even close. I called Kreg, they apologized and sent me two new clamps. No dice. Same problem. So, I'm done with Kreg products.

[@stickyfox]

I think a lot of recent woodworking products are designed by people who have never used such a tool or done any woodworking, but have access to the resources to make tools and want to contribute something to society.

[@HondoTrailside]

The thing about pocket holes is that the method is named after the crap part. Nobody actually wants the pockets. The part that counts is the hole. The pocket is what we have to do to get access to the hole. Biscuits join things; Dominos join things; dovetails join things. Pockets are just ugly access points. So when you say it is a two step process using the Castle (as it is), it is well worth the time to drill the hole, the hole is the part that counts, and is the part that gets you the low angle and potentially stronger and better aligned joint.

[@Hasse302]

As the owner of a small shop i value versatile tools, witch is why i would recommend anyone to buy or build a PantouRouter. It does almost everything a Domino does, it does dovetails, it does all kinds of things.... and i will cut a "pockethole" just like the Castle (you must drill the pilot hole by eye)

[@michaelhooper9729]

I bought mine and just like you, knew it was way better than Kreg. I boxed all my Kreg stuff up and sold it at our garage sale. I do wish there was a clamp like the Kreg clamps that would go in the slot to hold the boards in place. I didnt sell my Kreg clamps thinking I might grind the tips round to fit the Castle.

[@bentswoodworking]

Let me know if it works 👍

[@ericrickert3045]

Thanks for this video! I have not used this machine, but I have a few observations. 1-I try to get the best quality that I can afford with my tools. I noticed that you have lots of Festool items (pretty high quality). If I could afford it, even though I will not use it much, I would still get the best quality. 2-This uses more space than my Kreg 720 pro which I have mounted on a board and I hang on the wall. The Castle 110 machine will have a bigger foot print unless you can hang it somewhere (I guess you can put it on a little shelf). 3-My 720 pro I can remove from the board and just put it on the piece I want to make a pocket hole on. I use clamps usually. I guess this one can be done that way, but is more bulky. My conclusion for my use: my projects (so far) do not call for this much precision, but I will probably buy this soon anyway. Will I put away the Kreg 720 pro after getting a Castle 110? Maybe. My tool purchases are focused on what tools I enjoy using. I can afford quite a bit, but do not always get the most expensive tools. I have lots of Ryobi 18 volt cordless, but I also have Dewalt, Milwaukee, Kobalt, Rigid, Bauer, and Hercules. (that is lots of battery platforms). I want to buy tools that help make woodworking fun and rewarding (I want a Festool domino machine since it looks cool and fun to use). This was a very good review of this product. Thanks again!

[@jrichardson6]

I started with the kreg mini which for a starter was amazing. Now i am using the Trend pocket hole jig which i bought in uk for about 50£ it is all metal construction and auto clamps the material to the jig. The trend has made my Domino machine redundant except for Sunday Best… This jig is great value for money and I can’t fault it . However I was considering the kreg foreman as it seems like it will save so much time but damn now i’ve seen this metal beauty I’ll have to reconsider !! great presentation btw!! I’m wondering when Festool will announce their pocket hole machine ;))

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you found it helpful

[@stevet47]

Looks very robust, but the table is so small that I would need to build it into a workbench, except you can’t because you need access to the back for the operation. I’m sure it is better built than my Forman, but the foreman seems much simpler to use. This one seems to fall in a weird spot (maybe that is why I’ve never seen it before) where it is built to last in a commercial shop, but has so many steps/parts that it could only realistically be used in a hobby shop; but for a hobby shop, the foreman seems to be a better solution.

[@bentswoodworking]

Thank you for your input

[@apmgold]

Jason, very informative video, thanks a lot. For reference as of April 11 2023 the price for the 110 Pocket cutter on the Castle website is $674.85 so a bit of inflation creeping in there.

[@cadthunkin]

I made one of these from scrap wood recently. It works great but its more bulky than the castle one. One thing is I am using a straight bit, not an upcut spiral. It still works well, and was $14 instead of $40. Also, I want to remake the jig to use a compact dedicated router, and did not see 3/8" spiral bits using 1/4" shank. So I need to find that and will pay now that I know the thing works really well.

[@larrycurran7005]

It's been around for years and have seen it featured or just used on a number of u-tube woodworking channels and woodworking training programs. It does have some interesting features such as a more shallow hole angle, cleaner edge on holes in place of the tearout Kreg produces frequently among other differences. First seen it featured on the woodworkers guild of America many years ago. If you do lots of pocket holes frequently it seems like a great unit compared to Kregs unit. For the occasional user the K4 and K5 unit do the job at a more affordable price. Regarding the gap you demonstrated with Kreg compared to Castle I believe has a lot to do with the hole you have to put into the pocket with Castle unit as any time you put a screw through a piece of wood into another piece of wood the screw pushes the second piece of wood away because of the force required by the screw to start cutting a new hole is greater than the hand pressure holding the two pieces together regardless of angle. The act of the piece of wood with the pocket hole wanting to rise above the piece of wood you are trying to attached it to has always been a problem with Kreg unless both pieces are firmly clamped down. The more shallow angle produced by the Castle unit is a great help in this case requiring less pressure to hold both pieces down. Hope I made some sense out of what I said. Just got up and was enjoying my morning coffee with u-tube when I ran across your great demo of the Castle unit. Don't even know if I spelled it correctly. Thanks for in depth demo. While I have seen it used many times over the years you presented a more in depth description of the unit than I have seen before.

[@bentswoodworking]

Thank you for that and I’m glad you found the video helpful

[@peejay6390]

One con to the Castle is that you can’t just shove a dowel into the hole and flush cut it, which is a frequent case in fence construction. Maybe there is another way to plug the routed hole, but probably not as easy as a dowel.

[@bentswoodworking]

I’m pretty sure they have plugs.

[@CPBuilds]

I met the designer/owner a few years ago at Weekend With Wood. He asked me what I thought, over a few drinks, and I said I liked the idea but I thought it was too expensive. He said that the router was included…Bosch Colt at the time. I suggested making the enclosure larger to accommodate a cordless trim router. That way you didn’t have to worry about the cord. I guess he didn’t care for that idea 😂 It’s a nice little machine though. I had fun going through their demo pieces.

[@nelsoncarpentry]

One of my first thoughts was that I’d want a cordless trim router in it if possible.

[@CPBuilds]

@@nelsoncarpentry I know right?!? You heard it here first 😂 well he heard it like 3 or 4 years ago but he didn’t think it would be a good option I guess. I’d love a cordless version. Plus it would be cheaper that you wouldn’t have to include the router in the kit. Just my 2 cents.

[@bentswoodworking]

Yeah, I see how that could be useful

[@CPBuilds]

@@bentswoodworking ball’s in your court sir…make it happen. I’ll split any royalties I get with ya 😜

[@castleusa2792]

Back then there simply wasn't a good cordless trim router. Only now are the options good enough to pursue. Really at this point its hard to find a "corded" trim router. Porter Cable no longer makes routers, and Hitachi/Metabo HPT only has a cordless. Only Bosch, Dewalt, Makita, and a few odd balls are options. A cordless version will happen eventually. With the router that is in the 110 now, we are able to use a 8mm collet(most trim routers only allow a 1/4" collet, the Makita is an exception though), which has allowed us to use a solid carbide router bit that is a bit more stout. It also has allowed us to offer a solid carbide rouging spiral which is great for dense hardwoods like Hickory. The other issue is that users, in general, like to stay in the stay family of cordless tools.

[@Trainman0401]

Excellent! Thank you so much for this unbiased and detailed comparison.

[@mountainlightwoodcraft]

I have the large Castle unit and love the routed slots and lower angle of screw entry. Absolutely the best pocket in the business. Good video, bro.

[@bentswoodworking]

Thank you 👍

[@jgreg321]

Wondering if you ever fill the holes?

[@mountainlightwoodcraft]

@Greg j Yes, but not often as they are typically hidden. Occasionally, they have to be in a visible area, like inside a cabinet. Then, I use a dowel of the same material and diameter and use a flush-trim saw to flatten. A quick sanding, rubbing the sawdust into any small gap that might exist to mix with the glue, and they virtually disappear.

[@MajorTendonitis]

Glad I watched this video. I was about to upgrade to Kregs top pocket hole jig till I seen the Castle . I didn’t like it at the beginning of the video,but as soon as you explained the shallow 3 degree pocket hole, I was sold , as I do find I have issues keeping materials lined up properly with my keg during assembly. Forgot to mention, I have never heard of the Castle before this

[@Xbolt1969]

Thank you .. I couldn't figure it out . I'm new woodworker . My box wasn't square after I put in the screws .

[@LadderBarrier]

Always amazed at this work, especially the old barn construction where they did large ones it by hand.

[@chrisnash2154]

I love the more, “finished” look of routered hole of the castle. Another Kreg, “fail” are their clamps. I’ve seen videos of some of the completion that use a better cam in the clamp. Now, if I had the money then I would get the castle all day.

[@rogerbivins9144]

Nice tool. It's a shame they don't have them in stock. This could be particularly handy while I build the benchwork for my model railroad.

[@roblapihuska9275]

Nice comparison! I would think a con to the Castle would be filling that hole. Gluing in a simple dowel in a Kreg-style pocket hole and flush cutting it seems so easy compared to what you'd have to do to fill that slot for paint grade projects. I guess bondo or wood filler?

[@BillJBrasky]

I would think you could mill some stock 8mm wide with an 8mm round on one end that could slide into the castle slot. Glue and the flush cut similar to the dowel.

[@bentswoodworking]

Castle I believe actually has plugs as well

[@mauriciorodriguez3974]

Such a well explained review. I use pocket holes here and there, but I wouldn’t mind spending the extra bucks to have quality. I loved the demo of the screws. It honestly was a huge point out and I loved the way you highlighted the storage ability of the castle picker hole jig. Thank you.

[@williamjones6723]

Awesome video. I'm glad you didn't deep 6 the Kreg before making this presentation. Thank you Jason!

[@jsmxwll]

I use pocket holes making panels as a temporary clamp. I borrowed one of these to see if it is better than my Kregg jig. The reduced shifting is amazing and saves me a ton of headache. I haven't bought one yet primarily due to noise constraints where I do my work, but as soon as that changes, this is at the top of my list. The major con for me was how much harder it was to fill the holes themselves after I pulled the screws back out.

[@wadesam6232]

Isn't the reason there is a gap between the two boards cut with the Kreg, the small bit of tear out at the screw hole that keeps the two boards from getting next to each other?

[@bentswoodworking]

Not at all. It’s the angle the screw is going in

[@kencrisp6333]

Superb video and review! You opened my eyes to a product I was not aware of. After reviewing your video, I like the job the Castle does and I'm glad I held-off buying a pocket hole cutter. I just have to decide if it's worth paying the 2023 price of $675 for the Castle 110. Thanks again for taking the time to do this excellent review!

[@daveklein2826]

Armor has a great pocket hole jig in both regular and mini....very well engineered and great quality

[@TheMusicman961]

Wow, these jigs are nice, thanks for the tip.

[@marenrjensen]

Oh I really want this machine. It's backordered. And it's now listed on Castle's website for $660. The Foreman is still $400, so unfortunately that may be the deal breaker for me. Such a great tool, though.

[@tmaready]

Kreg Foreman is on sale at lowes now for $349. I heard pocket holes, pocket holes, and more pocket holes for a while but I thought when would I really use that but as I have advanced in woodworking and once I got just the little cheap Kreg jig I found myself using them more and more so I went and got the Foreman

[@joeychgo]

The Castle does nice holes - and that's where it ends. There are many problems with their design IMO. First, its a multi step process to drill a pocket hole. That might be fine if your doing just a few, but if your doing more then a few its going to take a lot more time with the castle. Second... Because if the design, it will be tricky if not impossible to do larger size pieces, such as a cabinet floor. Further, you cant build a bench around it to support such larger pieces because of where they placed the power switch, dust collection and the drilling position. The pocket hole quality is fantastic, no question. But it comes with a number of other hurdles. Moreover, pocket holes are generally hidden so part of the benefit of the hole quality is gone.

[@toolchuck]

You make several good points, but man I hate dealing with the 15deg. angle on the Kreg. Unless I clamp the heck out of it when I screw it together it almost always shifts on me.

[@rogersinasohn3250]

As mentioned in the video, larger pieces are handled by bringing the machine to the piece rather than the other way 'round. And if you're doing so many pocket holes that the two-step process is a real issue, Castle does have a larger machine, similar to the Kreg Foreman shown in the video, that makes it a one-step process.

[@thewoodologist8176]

@@rogersinasohn3250 the difference is that the kreg is a much better tool with a single step process for a third of the price. I own the single step castle, it costs 5k, requires an air line and weights 250lbs, certainly not comparable by any stretch to the kreg.

[@rogersinasohn3250]

@@thewoodologist8176 The Kreg foreman seems more comparable to the Castle TSM-12 which is a single-step machine (Well, push the lever then pull it). The TSM-12 does cost 3x the Foreman ($1500) but it seems like a much more robust machine with a lot of advantages. I do like the smaller angle of the Castle pocket holes and they certainly do look better/cleaner, but I'm not sure I could justify the price difference between the TSM-12 and the Foreman. I'm also incredibly lazy so the two-step Castle might end up too annoying for me.

[@wickish]

I have had a Castle 110 for a year now and love it. I have not used the kreg units i own since. My only bug is the cost of the screws being from Canada the shipping cost is brutal Anyone in Canada know where you can get them?

[@karolskakes388]

Yes I have watched Castle pocket hole machines in use - large table multi gang unit. Love what you presented - just the angle of attack is worth thinking about when applying pocket holes! 5 stars

[@AshOnTop23]

Just wanted to note the Kreg Foreman is now $399 and the Castle 110 is $675. They aren't really close to the same price anymore.

[@rsharpe1985]

I was thinking about purchasing the larger bench top castle machine which does away with having to have a drill bit But seeing this now where you can take it to the material has me leaning towards saving the money and buying this version! That’s the reason I have never upgraded from the original Kreg jig the r3 because of its mobility and I don’t know why anyone would want to stand their board up vertical to have to clamp it that has never made sense to me.

[@bentswoodworking]

Being able to take to piece to the material on larger panels is nice

[@garybadger325]

I saw and heard about the Castle 110 first on Stumpy Nubs You Tube channel. I love the way you compared the two systems. It definitely would go with the Castle if I was doing more pocket hole construction. Keep the videos coming.

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you found it helpful

[@diycentral]

Known about it for a bit thanks to Stumpy Nubs but I like how thorough your video is. One concern that was keeping me away from it was the lack of use on other thicknesses but I still need to make pocket holes in 1.5" material. Another concern I have is that you are mating the back of the screw to a rounded surface so compression is uneven. Not sure if that is a good thing or not for the longevity of the hold.

[@bentswoodworking]

I haven’t noticed any concerns with the screw heads yet.

[@castleusa2792]

The rounded bottom of the Castle pocket is actually a benefit when used in conjunction with a cheese head screw (also known as fillister or pan head) . We want a bit of material to compress under the screw. The rounded bottom allows the sides of the screw to compress just enough of the wood fibers for a nice tight joint. Think of it like setting the head of a finish nail to really lock it in. That compression "should" also keep the joint tighter for a longer period of time(its like a spring). We even recommend the panhead screw in a drilled pocket due to the compression of the wood fibers. Washer head screws never really compress the fibers (especially with drilled pockets with that flat bottom). Washer heads sometimes can give you a false sense that the joint is really tight. Our commercial customers have been using a pan head pocket screw in our pockets for 35 years.

[@diycentral]

@@castleusa2792 exactly what I was wondering about. Thanks for breaking it down by mentioning the different screw head types.

[@diycentral]

@@castleusa2792 oops... just noticed you talk about compression on your Screws page. I noticed no Torx for 7 1/4" though?

[@BrianGlendenning]

If I have it right the Castle hole is curved where the screw head abuts the end of the screw, whereas the Kreg is flat against the screw head. Naively I'd think that means the Castle joints are more likely to loosen up over time as the edge of the screw head digs into the wood. Is this a real-world problem do you think?

[@bentswoodworking]

I don’t think that’s a concern

[@ramonching7772]

One thing not mentioned is, With the Kreg, the pocket hole and the pilot hole of the perpendicular board are drilled in one go. The issue of shifting is gone too. Furthermore, the nice thing about the Kreg system is that the drill bushing system is very inexpensive. You can actually buy the bushing and drill bit separately and make a fixture to hold many bushings. All the desired pockets properly located. Pilot holes with matched spacing.

[@decosse01]

Wow - this is video is what, a year old, you mentioned $450 as the price - I clicked on the link, $675 today!! Kreg Foreman meanwhile, $400. (great video by the way, lots of good information on the product)

[@ravenheart1439]

I'm fairly new at this and just yesterday I wondered why square bits when star is sooooo much better...guess I'll try and find those...I got a kreg pocket hole jig but not the machine..seen them but not operating...thank you for upload learned something new every day...

[@DaveEtchells]

I’d think that the rounded bottom on the Castle holes would cause stress risers when the screws are tightened. Doesn’t the screw tend to split some woods when it’s tightened?

[@DickHampikian]

I have done pocket hole for years using various Craig jigs. I bought the Castle 110 because of the added features and quality of end results. The Castle is by far superior...lower angle mitigates slippage, adjustment is much easier than Craig (both set up and production), minimal tear out and high quality fixture...stainless steel not plastic. Like you forgetting to drill hole was annoying but after using it for a while this objection ceased to exist. Castle is by far the best tool to cut pocket holes.

[@bobpeters5615]

I use Kreg, but nearly always that too is a two stage operation, as I have to drill out the hole. that usually means a hex drill bit in a 6 inch hex extension. I never use Kreg screws.

[@franciscoferreiro204]

at 13:00 issue related to angle... it's true that a shallow angle is better for the screw (will hold better and also be much more flexible to use longer screws with less risk of protruding the screwed board)... but related to the misalignment in your demo... are you sure is consequence of the angle or may not be the fact that the holes in the routed board are not true passing holes for the screw so that they are not slipping along the hole and then pushing the board away from the butt position ? really lot of people don't pay attention to the key issue and importance of the "first board" ie the board where the screw head rests) should have a true passing through hole so as the traction of the screw threads -only- work on the "screwed board" (ie the second board, in this case not the "routed" one but the one that receives the screw tip)

[@tufguy33]

I have one on pre order. I can’t wait. It will be a real game changer for my mobile shop.

[@bentswoodworking]

I think you will like

[@c_mac7773]

I usually have to watch six or seven or eight videos before I buy a product but you covered everything in this one video. Very good job thank you sir I appreciate your time. Subscribed 🇺🇸💪🏻👊🏻🤙🏼

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you found it helpful

[@brocbradley2313]

Really like the breakdown on the anatomy of the pocket hole. Now I understand why I get the gap or the non-flush joint if not properly clamped.

[@allent555]

Yes I've heard of Castle, however it was the next machine up which has two routers. And understandably more price. Really appreciate you highlighting this one, as I'm looking at the Kreg model you were comparing it too. One additional point, Really like how do you briefly describe the workflow you're using with the machine. Had a flash back to USAF military training. It's one thing to know the steps of a project. Its a completely different to understand a workflow(s) with a machine / tool. It gives some knowledge foundation in which one can build from.

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you found it helpful 👍

[@computerz009]

very thorough video. well done

[@JayBergCustoms]

On a slightly related note, I noticed on the edges of the pre-finished ply you had some pretty significant tear out on the top veneer along the cut edge. I've consistently had that problem, which makes using it (especially on drawers) problematic since tall that chip out is often along the top edge of the drawer box. Do you have any tricks you use when cutting pre-finished ply to avoid that?

[@bentswoodworking]

It’s only because they are quick, rough cut scraps. A good fine tooth blade will prevent any tear out.

[@HondoTrailside]

I had heard about it, but it seemed not to be available for purchase, over the last year or so. Looks nice, has advantages, not for sale. I have been planing on making one...

[@donaldpyles2891]

I am about to purchase a Kreg Foreman even after seeing this video. First, it is a great comparison and great video, thanks Jason. I am about to build a whole kitchen for my new house and I will be using a ton of pocket holes. I have been trained in Lean Manufacturing and for me it is all about counting steps. Significantly more steps to accomplish the same result. I understand the 3 degree vs the 15 degree but for me that is a mute point. I will be gluing all the joints so the strength will be in the glue once it is cured. Rarely do I rely on a mechanical fastener with today's glues. So for me, I will opt to pull the handle once on the Kreg and then clamp the pieces, I doubt that you can get away from some form of clamping when building a cabinet regardless of the system used. Jason, I am a fan of your videos and value your opinion, thanks again.

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you found it helpful

[@Azara1th]

There are higher end castle machines that are one step, including pedal operated ones. This one was probably chosen because of price, Castle machines are a lot pricier. The comparable castle to the foreman is $1,400, but also more durable and repeatable. I've used the foreman in production and it loses alignment after a while so you have to keep an eye on it.

[@justinkingery2489]

"moot" point. A common mistake!

[@rbhillner]

Very good video explaining the differences of the two machines. You gave great pros and cons of both. Great video - thanks.

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you found it helpful

[@Tonystodolist]

I know it's only wood, but your pocket is not flat because the cutter is round, so the screw head won't sit flat... again it won't make too much of a difference case its wood. It's nice that you can take it to the material

[@K0NVICTx]

I left keep for Armors pocket hole jig & been very happy. Makes it as simple as it gets

[@GaryRocke]

great review and very helpful. I am doing more pocket holes and was looking at the Forman until I helped a friend install some cabinets which were built with a castle machine

[@jgemeinhardt3955]

Jason, thanks for the video, I was familiar with Castle's larger stationary machines but missed this one. I've purposely not used pocket holes in my projects simply because of the very issues you've pointed out, the holes were rough, the separation issue but most of all those crappy Robertson style square head screws Kreg uses. In hardwood they're almost worthless as they strip out regularly. This could be a game changer for my bias and love the compact size and mobility of the tool as most of us have space challenges. My Domino machine may see a little competition here.

[@bentswoodworking]

Glad you found the information helpful!!

[@riversider681]

Lets see if I understand this. A pocket hole drill bit drills an actual pocket where the bottom is entirely enclosed. The Castle machine draws the router bit across the face of the workpiece and you end up with an open channel. Right? The bottom of a pocket hole is flat but the bottom of the Castle channel is a mini half pipe. Right?. Can any kind of screw gain good purchase when the bottom of the channel does not conform to the underside of the screwhead? Not knocking the Castle. Everyone says it makes a better joint, just some things that came to mind. BTW the pocket hole drill bit leaves a pilot hole filled with debris which can interfere with making a good flush fitting joint. It would be so simple to just poke little bit smaller drill bit thru the pilot hole and clear it. No more debris.

[@LynnMorgan-fh2re]

A lot of the shift and gap caused with the Kreg is due to the 'divot' produced by the screw breaking through the incomplete pilot hole. I do a secondary drill through to cure the problem.

[@tedpuckett2779]

Good informative vid. There clearly are some additional steps to the Castle but maybe the muscle memory from the repetitive movements would be manageable. My first thought was they need to incorporate an automatic on. A switch, any switch is just prone to issue. I see they tucked it away a bit but it’s just another step. Again adding a foot control switch could help. Lastly the working surface is fairly narrow on the castle. IMO overall it does produce somewhat superior holes with less issue on the align of the work piece. Thank you for the vid.

[@bentswoodworking]

You’re welcome!

[@michaell8835]

I’m in agreement, I really like the machine and think the cuts look excellent, but the choice of switch location seems really odd …. eg hiding it in a hole. I think I’d be moving that in no time 😂. Lovely kit though.

[@hansangb]

Saw the big boy version on Richard's Finish Carpentry TV channel. A whistle of approval indeed! :)

[@ShanePresleyC]

The next wave RS1000 pro has a pocket hole program and it's also router based. I can't seem to find a video of anyone using it but I wonder how it compares to the castle

[@BigNicky77]

Really great video. I called Castle today and asked them about the back order, they are not even sure when they’re going to have these tools in stock again. Looks like the next step up is the TSM 12 at $1700. Are you aware of any other manufactures that have a similar set up to this style and are readily available?