Pocket Watch Cases : Gold vs. Gold-Filled

[@paulhartquist9606]

"shiny crap" ! Wow! I've owned several mint, multi colored, hand engraved, gold filled cases that were absolutely beautiful.

[@PocketWatchTime]

I agree. Not all GF are crap. The point of my video was to shed the light on gold vs gold-filled in terms of pricing. I find a lot of sellers selling “14k gold” cases that are actually just plated but charging the solid gold price.

[@kawman55]

@@PocketWatchTime Hmmm. "Gold-filled cases are shiny crap." Quoting the video here. Yes, you back away from the statement near the end of the video. Which is it? We all understand solid gold is more valuable dollar-wise all other things being equal but that's not the only measure of what makes a case valuable. I've seen (and I own) gold-filled cases that are stunningly beautiful and some solid gold cases w/ nothing to recommend them other than their ability to be melted down for scrap value. Suggest the video be edited to remove the red meat at the beginning if you truly believe as written above.

[@PocketWatchTime]

It’s a complicated issue. You’re absolutely right that gold filled cases can be very beautiful. I do have to say personally… I don’t like gold filled cases. I don’t like the idea that the gold can wear off and a base layer can be seen. I’m actively trying to find gold or even silver replacements for all of my gold filled cases. But that’s just me. The statement about “crap“ is really do the value. The financial value. As I’ve tried to explain in more recent videos and plan to in future videos, a lot of the general population out there doesn’t know that a gold filled case doesn’t have near the value of a real gold case. So many sellers and buyers just say the word 14 karat gold and assume it’s solid and valuable. I know aesthetically… A beautiful case no matter what it’s made of is a beautiful case and has “value”. But personally, I think gold filled cases are crappier than gold cases and I don’t value them in my collection. My last commentary on this somewhat complicated story… I know gold filled cases have a place in pocketwatch collecting. Railroad pocket watches were designed to be on the railroad - they were never intended to be in solid gold cases. They were working man’s watches… Solid gold would be a bit silly. But I don’t collect those types of watches… I mostly collect prestige and dress pocket watches. So, for me, solid gold suits my collection. So yes, I give gold-filled cases a bit of a hard time… Just like I get two-tone pocket watch cases a hard time. Crap…No. Crappy for me…Yes.

[@kawman55]

@@PocketWatchTime Thank you for the reply. With your explanation, I dare say we're good. I better understand your dislike and accept your proclivity. I never thought that someone would buy thinking they were getting solid but were instead getting filled. That would be awful. And I've got enough of my own peccadillos to understand the hard "no" on the impurity. Thanks for the stimulating content.

[@wmbchristie]

You used a very poor description of “gold filled”! Not everyone can afford solid gold cased watches and yet they can fully enjoy and even treasure their gold filled watch. If you do not plan to melt the case, but plan to wear it occasionally, the gold outer layer should last for a lifetime. Other than that inappropriate comment, your presentation was very good!🎉

[@shymshaun777]

I'm experienced in refining and collecting pocket watches and I have to disagree on gold filled being crap,I've sent some for refinery and the percentage of gold came back 10% sometimes the case was half gold melting at 7k or 5k,some gold filled cases are crap but some of them have a lot of gold.just my experience

[@PocketWatchTime]

I agree. Gold-filled is not all crap. The bigger point of my video was to let new collectors of pocket watches know that gold filled is nowhere near solid gold and not to pay a solid gold premium price for a gold filled case.

[@shymshaun777]

Paying for a gold filled case at solid gold is the common mistake for those who chase gold,I can say this for sure alot of cases thats called gold filled are not and u.s. assay doesn't mean much either cause ive bought many that wasnt marked that way that was solid gold,when buying gold pockets watches u have to buy with your knowledge of what the gold content is,alot of information is false,g.w. ladd cases are not half gold as they claim and some dueber cases that are called gold filled are actually solid gold and most cases that are marked as 14k will melt at around 10k,the majority of pocket watches are never the carat claimed to and most gold filled case companies lied about how much gold they used

[@colejosephalexanderkashay683]

I melt gold filled, and struggle to get above 2.5% for large lots of mixed stuff As far as I know 20 year watch cases are about 1/10 10k or 1/20 18k and that 25 year watch cases are like 1/10 14k

[@PocketWatchTime]

Interesting percentages.

[@richardross3815]

Thank you for your timely video. Just acquired a gold filled( lol) 1906 Elgin pocket watch. Case from 1890’s. Movement in excellent shape and still keeps time very well. Case leaves much to be desired but safe guarded the works. Did it’s job.

[@PocketWatchTime]

Congrats. Thanks for watching. 🙌🏼

[@johnjoeflanagan]

That was a very helpful piece of information. Thank you.

[@PocketWatchTime]

Thank you.

[@esteban8840]

Here in Europe, solid gold watches are getting very very rare due to the fact that the cases are often melted, but allot of watches have silver or German silver cases, gold plated is not as common, nice vid!

[@PocketWatchTime]

Thank you. I’ll make a video explaining the different types of silver and other case metals in the future.

[@esteban8840]

@The Watch Movement yes, we also called argentan, these are very very common in France, they are a metal alloy that looks like silvers but is much harder and oxidises green

[@Wyrmwood66]

it is a very good video clip cause it is straight forward and informative which I appreciate very much. I have ask for a solid gold pocket watch for my 25th wedding anniversary in 2 years so it gives me time to learn and pick a good one.

[@PocketWatchTime]

Thank you so much. Let me know if you need any help finding the right case/watch.

[@barbiedodd9802]

2:53 2:53

[@PocketWatchTime]

Definitely - look for “years” marked on a case. Clear sign of a GF case.

[@lindanorris2455]

GREAT VIDEO!

[@PocketWatchTime]

Thank you 😊

[@chuckbowie5833]

Very informative video. I assume you don't really care about Swiss watches, but do you know what the situation is with these? With online listings of Swiss watches with unmarked cases I often wonder whether they're gold-plated or -filled, or simply brass.

[@PocketWatchTime]

I don’t know much about Swiss/European watches… But I can tell you those cases should all be hallmarked. Europe had very strict rules about gold and required special hallmarks for it. If you google Swiss gold, hallmarks you’ll see what they look like. If you don’t see those on a case… They’re not solid gold.

[@garysong8163]

Actually if all pocket watches were placed in gold cases rather than gold filled, nickel-silver, German silver, silveroid, or sterling silver; there wouldn’t be as many around because many gold cased pocket watches were sold for their cases which were melted and the movements either sold for parts or discarded altogether. Another issue is gold fill is not the same as gold plate. Gold plate is an electro plating process where in case parts are submersed into a gold chloride solution on a wire and the other electrode which might be gold. An electric current is applied and gold is deposited on the watch case parts. Plated cases have a thinner gold layer. Gold fill is more a cladding process similar to Allclad cookware. Gold plates are sandwiched over a core material….often brass and then rolled under pressure and heat bonding the layers together. The carat designation on the case is the carat if the gold used, more often 14k rarely 18k. The year designations are a guarantee on how long the case will last with normal ware….in a sense it indicates the thickness of the gold as it’ll take longer for a thicker gold plate to show brassing than a thinner plate. Most solid gold and solid sterling silver cases will bear a stamped in hallmark and state the carat or sterling silver mark. As one commenter stated there many gold filled cases that were amazing especially those special rail road union cases, often in multiple colored gold alloys. Thank you for your videos😊

[@PocketWatchTime]

Great overview 🙌🏼

[@shakeelrufaie993]

A watch is meant to show you the correct time, whether its case is of gold or silver or any metal. A watch made of gold is also a shiny crap if it doesn't serve it's purpose.

[@PocketWatchTime]

Can’t argue with that - a broken watch is junk and at that point the case, dial, or rare components become it’s only source of worth.

[@nathantmoore]

The Crescent Watch Case company marked cases with year guarantees after approximately 1898, following industry trends. Around this time, most of the case companies increased their wear guarantees by about five years on each grade. To differentiate the cases with the upgraded guarantee, the case companies began marking the cases accordingly. Prior to c.1898, the guarantees were associated with the case grades offered by each company and typically included on the watch paper inserted into the case when new. This was not a practice to portray the case a solid gold - just the industry trends at the time.

[@PocketWatchTime]

Very true - the problem is after the case papers are far gone and deteriorated the name convention of the time is very confusing to laymen.

[@JR-pj8pz]

Fahy's case are NOT ALWAYS gold filled. There are some that are solid 10k and solid 14K. I came across one and thought it was filled but through XRAY annalysis and refining, it's actually solid 14k. Marked Montauk 14K

[@PocketWatchTime]

That’s why gold-filled cases are so tricky… it’s definitely gold-filled. Check out this resource: mb.nawcc.org/threads/fahys-montauk-gold-case-markings.48699/

[@barbiedodd9802]

2:18

[@yatox8]

I've been trying to research a pocket watch I obtained. I can't find anything online about it. The case says 14k and has a micro upside down question mark. I believe its solid 14k as the case and second movement flap are slightly dented indicating no other metal to make it sturdier. The flap says in cursive 'George Roulet Locle' No.98788 .. movement only says 8788 under the watch face plate.

[@PocketWatchTime]

That’s definitely a Swiss manufacture case. It should have European hallmarks showing gold content and purity. The Europeans have a much better standard than American pocket watches for gold content. I’m not very familiar with European hallmarks as I primarily collect American pocket watches. But, if you Google European gold hallmarks you’ll be able to find out if your hallmark is accurate.

[@TruthLivesNow]

What I am reading is that Cases alone weigh 30 grams. Some of the documentation I am reading says a 14 KT Gold Filled Case is 1/20th Gold. Using a calculator taking all of that into consideration, at $2,100 an ounce spot price on the gold, the case comes out to $59.00.

[@PocketWatchTime]

I can’t confirm those numbers. But, it’s a good estimate. However, you also have to consider the gold content… 14k is .585 pure - so your $60 price cuts itself almost in half.

[@SuryaFriends]

Very informative video thank You for that…….. can you please tell an estimate price band for beginners what we should pay around for gold fild case & how much should we pay for sold gold case…… i am aware condition brand movement plays a big role but as a complete beginner a price range estimate would be really helpful from your experience.

[@PocketWatchTime]

Gold-filled would range from $100-$250 based on size and condition. Solid gold (14k or 18k) would range from $500-$2000 or higher based on size and condition. General ranges.

[@SuryaFriends]

Pocket Watch Time thank You so much for suggestions ✨

[@andrewferneau8720]

So I have a case that just says “star watch case co. 18kt gold USA” is this gold or gold filled? Every where I look it says it’s gold filled but from my understanding if it’d gold filled it has to say gf or filled (and now) or have some kind of year on it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[@PocketWatchTime]

I’m familiar with Star Watch Case Co. - they predominately did make gold-filled cases but solid gold cases were made. I’ve personally never seen an 18 karat solid gold case from this company. I’ve only seen 14 karat solid. The problem with karat marks on early cases is the rules weren’t so clear - sometimes a trade name like “mascot” was included to denote gold filled without actually saying it or without posting “years”. Can you send me pictures of all the case markings? You can DM me on Instagram: pocket.watch.time

[@poepflater]

I can't find anything on the topic of choosing between gold-plated and solid silver cases. What is the better investment?

[@PocketWatchTime]

Well, investment is a tough word in the world of pocket watches. The idea of melting a case for its precious metal is blasphemous. These cases can’t be replaced and are worth far more (especially to collectors) as a case than just the included metal. However, to answer the question to some degree: silver cases are actually sterling silver or some high % of actual silver (not very expensive at the moment) & gold-filled (GF) cases are just plated (not a lot of gold). I own a few beautiful GF cases… but I don’t consider them “real” gold. For investment I’d only recommend pure metals: silver, solid gold, or platinum.

[@poepflater]

@@PocketWatchTime I think that underscores my instincts too... If I can choose two similar aged watches, one being filled or guaranteed vs a nice 92% silver, I'm taking the silver 9 out of 10 times.

[@Meatlips527]

I've found that solid gold cases are absurdly expensive. So many have been scrapped over the years that it's tremendously unlikely you will find a sold gold case for less than 1000 depending on the size. The next best thing I can find if I want somewhat precious metal cases is coin silver. But there are a lot of gold filled or rolled gold plate cases that are indeed beautiful and still wind up costing more than a hundred to two hundred on the eBays.

[@PocketWatchTime]

Sadly, with the very recent inflation or as the news wants to call it “a correction“, the price of solid gold cases has skyrocketed. Prices are double what they were last year. It is sad. A lot more cases will get scrapped because of these high prices. I agree, silver is a great case alternative. I love the shine.

[@Meatlips527]

@@PocketWatchTime I am dying to get my hands on some nice gold cases. Got a hamilton 950 that I need to finish the staff on that would be so perfect in a solid gold case. It was the victim of a scrap a few years ago since I'm positive its original case was gold. I just can't bring myself to drop the 1500 or so on the ebays for a gold case and there are LOTS of them on there. It's debatable that these sellers are getting their asking prices since I do tend to see the same ones over and over. I have built up a small surplus of coin silver cases which are probably .850 or so in terms of silver purity. They do shine up real nice though.

[@Meatlips527]

@@PocketWatchTime I do have an elgin 6s in a case that claims to be 14k. Though after watching your video I'm wondering. It just says "warranted 14k" and "R&F 14k" on the inside cover. You think it's legit?

[@PocketWatchTime]

@@Meatlips527 oh yes - it’s legit. R&F only made solid cases and they have a reputation for making really nice cases too. Hold on to that one. 😁 I have a gorgeous R&F case for a Waltham 1888 that’s getting serviced - I can’t wait to make a video about it soon.

[@jasonnelder5280]

Hey was wondering if anybody could help me out I found a gold pocket watch that has 4 stamps in the back on top a crown on bottom and 18 to the right and h to the left a shield also has a stamp of WY and the numbers 250 and I think 1398 any help is much appreciated was wondering if it was gold or not

[@PocketWatchTime]

Those are European hallmarks. Obviously some people fake hallmarks… in general, those sound legit. It’s probably solid 18 karat gold. The “250” you mentioned is probably 750 (or 75%/18k gold).

[@jasonnelder5280]

Thanks for the help yea I got it tested it it 18k still trying to find out more about it can't find much tho it has a CJ stamped on the turn dial from what I have found seems to be from 1852

[@PocketWatchTime]

Glad to help.

[@veganandlovingit]

please, what kind of watch is the gold faced one next to the beautiful green watch? I have one the same, but not in good condition. There is little markings except to say will last 5 years and is Swiss made. Mine still woks but has no glass and is filthy. I'm thinking it is worth no more than going into the bin.

[@PocketWatchTime]

It’s hard to say what your watch is worth. That is an aftermarket dial. Sometimes dials are replaced because they’re broken and sometimes dials are replaced in order to make a movement fit into a different case. This is usually the case with this type of dial because you can convert a hunter case movement into the (becoming more popular) open face case shape. This is accomplished by losing the second hand function. So I can tell you the dial is not of high value. It sounds like your gold filled case is only a five year variant, which is also not very high value. I’m not a Swiss watch expert… more of an American pocket watch aficionado… So I can’t really give you value on this movement. But, it doesn’t sound like it’s a high value piece.

[@veganandlovingit]

@@PocketWatchTime thank you, that's really interesting info. So kind of you. No wonder I couldn't easily find another one the same. I didn't think it was worth much but was curious all the same :)

[@JoseTorres-io4eh]

Can you shed ingo on my watch cant find anything on it

[@PocketWatchTime]

Sure. What info do you have?

[@berrynovan9846]

Movement Waltham produce by gold?

[@PocketWatchTime]

If I understand the question correctly… Waltham did not produce any gold movements (just cases). Gruen did.

[@fpostolache]

Watches have to be loved not for their case metal !

[@PocketWatchTime]

Absolutely. I love many watches… I love them more if they live in a beautiful case. 😁

[@MikeM10293]

My case has no markings at all. Very weird. It only has what I believe to be a gg engraved on the outside of the lid with a beautiful scene

[@PocketWatchTime]

That is odd. If you take some pictures of the case and send it to my email address, I can take a peek.

[@MikeM10293]

@@PocketWatchTime thank you! I will.

[@MikeM10293]

@@PocketWatchTime well it turns out my case was just very dirty! I was rubbing the inner lid with a cloth to take a good picture and a logo appeared! It is very faint but it says B&B Royal with a 20 year gold fill lifetime. Movement is an Elgin 7 jewel made in 1912. I’m very surprised that there was that much filth in the case. Perhaps kept open for display on a desk over years and years? Must speak to the Elgin quality as this will still run for a few seconds. It is badly in need of a service.

[@PocketWatchTime]

@MikeM10293 Great. Glad you found some info.

[@jacobprestage42]

You meant solid gold cases not filled at first

[@PocketWatchTime]

I’ll have to update this video someday - 1 year of video making and I think I make a better product now.

[@chrisrogers213]

What if a watch case only says us assay with bwcco inside a bar and it has an eagle on it as well

[@PocketWatchTime]

That’s 10k solid gold

[@nathantmoore]

@@PocketWatchTime This is incorrect. The Brooklyn Eagle case is 8K gold.

[@PocketWatchTime]

@@nathantmoore I’ll agree to disagree - all information I’ve ever found on standard and eagle marked cases is 10k.

[@nathantmoore]

@@PocketWatchTime The 1890 S.F. Meyers catalog states: "Genuine "Eagle" Cases are plump 8 K fine, one quality throughout, and are stamped either "B.W.C.Co." or "Brooklyn Eagle."

[@colejosephalexanderkashay683]

Have a case marked "Waltham" "14k" "Six Digit Serial Number" is this a legit 14k case or a 14kGF case masquerading as 14k

[@PocketWatchTime]

It sounds like solid gold. There are many confusing Waltham insignias regarding gold cases; however, Waltham as a general rule only marks cases with 14k or 18k if solid gold. As long as the 14k wasn’t added by an unscrupulous reseller to make more money (if the quality of the 14k doesn’t match the rest of the engraving I’d be suspicious).

[@colejosephalexanderkashay683]

@@PocketWatchTime I'm liking my odds then. This was on an online thrift site; they are running a 50% off sale right now and paid only 420 for the watch; based on the weight of a junk mechanism of the same size I have, I should make about 300 in profit from melting the (very generic) case

[@dwaynecollins4974]

What if a watch says 10 ct gold filled or 10 karat white gold would that be more of a true statement?

[@PocketWatchTime]

Absolutely. A few case brands are pretty clear and straightforward that they are gold filled. I don’t have anything against those cases. I don’t like the deceptive practices that some other case companies use to hide gold filled terminology.

[@dwaynecollins4974]

@@PocketWatchTime oh these are wrist watches but they're probably expensive back in the day like Bulova, Elgin, longines etc. I don't see them trying to slide something past a customer but I figured I'd check with you just the same

[@PocketWatchTime]

@@dwaynecollins4974 You’re probably right - I think with wristwatches you can trust the hallmarks/markings more than older pocket watch cases.

[@barbiedodd9802]

0:56

[@PocketWatchTime]

Wrist check @ 0:56 😁

[@kc7136]

Far the best video on gold vs gold-filled. thanks for explaining this clearly. Some of you may also want to watch the gold-filled process kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJ6blamNrJKKhJI

[@PocketWatchTime]

Thanks KC. What an amazing link - I can’t believe there’s a 30min historical on the subject. Thanks for sharing.

[@thetruth156real3]

He ought to do a video on “ Nissan micra is not a Rolls Royce, or plastic bags are not Gucci. “

[@PocketWatchTime]

If the plastic bag was marked Gucci and pretended to be an authentic Gucci bag (like a gold “filled” case is marked “gold” and usually marked “14k”), let me know - I’ll make a video on it.