POE 3.24 - How Rare Is The Veiled Orb? - Loot From 66 Catarinas - Path of Exile Necropolis

#poe #necropolis #pathofexile
66 Syndicate Masterminds, 14 Veiled Orbs. It's probably 20% to 25%, can't rule out a little either way.
This actually makes Catarina more lucrative than pre-change.
Another player got 18 orbs from 200 fights - I'm pretty sure this was prior to the buff in 3.24.1.
Raw drop data: www.sirgog.com/wp-content/upl...
Note that this was gathered with care to avoid statistical biases, most notably reporting bias.
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[@hiimswiss2930]

I've killed Katarina once and dropped the orb. I quit that farm while I was ahead :3

[@sirgog]

Heh nice!

[@carlos32195]

Rip veil chaos, was such an easy way for non try hards to get good equipment.

[@sirgog]

The Necropolis mechanic utterly eclipses it, although it won't survive to next patch. Right now 10 divines buys a 1400 eDPS bow, and 2 divines buys a 1200 eDPS bow. I did love veiled chaos on gloves, helms and boots though.

[@exiledzana1169]

Why exactly non tryhards should have good equipment?

[@finneas9894]

@@sirgog necropolis mechanic cant give veiled mods tho so its not really something that should be compared

[@sirgog]

@@finneas9894 it's not the specific mods it's the overall power of items that matters. 324 has been by far the highest power of items on a budget in the game's history, even if gloves are a little worse than last league.

[@xRawPower]

​@@sirgog While I agree that graveyard crafting completely laps veiled chaos in terms of power - multiple times for that matter - that was never in question. Veiled chaos were fun to engage with, the graveyard is not, period. It really is that simple. Sure, you can print 6xt1 items, but what was the gameplay like? You were cross referencing a spreadsheet and spamming trade for corpses? Personally, I don't care if something prints literal mirrors, I would quit the game before investing time and energy figuring out such an objectively unfun mechanic.

[@KolinarK]

I hate how they lobotomized the Betrayal. The reward of the board set up is like 2-3 scarabs per Syndicate member on average which is not worth the effort. I loved setting up the board, now META is Catarina rush.

[@sanield2782]

Yeah it feels pretty bland now honestly

[@drazendadic6666]

can't wait for them to lobotomize necropolis

[@KenNywithrice]

Regardless of the drop rate I would love Aisling/Hillock/Vorici functionality restored, especially the latter 2. I feel like no one is talking enough about losing the ease of getting 30% and 28% quality items post craft.

[@julianolotero6600]

Does feel bad that everyone wanted a way to itemize those other 2 crafts, and instead they were deleted.

[@beasthaven1571]

It was noooiiiiiceeee

[@GE_Photon_Lord]

I was always a fan of betrayal and kept farming it with expedition. This league I only did Jun missions just to unlock the crafts and that was it. My initial thought was that is not worth running this anymore since it will feel bad to sometimes find a big jackpot, instead of getting guaranteed divines for each aisling board. However, what I didnt expect is to see the prices go up and up for the veiled chaos, to a point where it became so expensive. With this in mind and this data you extracted, I think on average is probably the same thing. You get your divines delayed, but you dont have to worry about tft trading and getting to the boss is a faster process. Again, this assumes the 25% chance, so if you do 4 runs ( 1 run = 3-4 divs each before ), then you get your veiled orb ( which right now is 1.8k chaos = around 13 -14 divs ). So you tehnically lose like 2 divines vs the old betrayal, but now it's faster and has QoL. So in the end, I actually think it's better now for Aisling in particular. However, the change I want to see is to greatly increase rewards in case you like to set up boards, because this was the thing that made betrayal BETRAYAL. The other rewards for safehouses feel lackluster. Plus the scarab rework kinda just nullified the whole concept of scarabs in betrayals ( you used to get winged ones in higher star safehouses -> "harder" = better rewards ). Now you pretty much get random scarabs and most of them are not worth anything. So I think I'll start farming this mechanic again, ignoring setting up good boards for now until fixes come.

[@TrenchcoatJesus]

Yeah, they gutted betrayal rewards to be extremely inconsistent which runs counter to the way that you can manipulate and set up the board to target rewards. I don't even know what they were thinking with some of the changes. It's like they didn't understand or appreciate the way that betrayal works in the first place. I really don't see any reason why they can't have 3 stars give a winged scarab like they used to. That would make it more worthwhile to actually interact with the mechanic instead of mindlessly run masterminds ASAP with zero thought given to the board. In fairness, Gravicius does actually give some interesting rewards with the rework. But barely any others are noteworthy. Prior to this league, Aisling was the most important member but I still had secondary objectives of getting other members into advantageous places. Now Gravicius is the only one that matters, and even he is secondary to maximizing Mastermind clears. It's a real shame they trashed the functionality of this mechanic.

[@GE_Photon_Lord]

@@TrenchcoatJesus You nailed it, I agree with you. That's the problem.

[@parkerault2607]

@@TrenchcoatJesus I'm not sure about the 25% number, I ran over 20 t16 catarinas in a row without a single veiled orb drop. I ended up getting 3 over about ~35 runs. It's possible I just got unlucky but I've heard several other people saying the same thing on the PoE discord.

[@frogov99]

I think it should be more common from Catarina and have a small drop chance on Syndicate leaders on safehouses. Another good option would be having the old veiled chaos back and remake the new Veiled orb as a "Veiled exalted orb" or something like that.

[@ironsmith4927]

I stopped running Syndicate after I did not drop a veiled orb for 30 consecutive runs (all after 3.24.1). Before the patch I had dropped 4 orbs in 25 runs.

[@parkerault2607]

Me too, 20 runs with no drops. I don't know what the actual drop rate is but I wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 10% or less.

[@Powerkeg]

18 masterminds, 0 veiled orbs 🥲

[@borRIING]

As someone who specialized in Betrayal last league, FUCK THIS CHANGE!

[@sirgog]

IMO safehouses are in a bad spot, but right now with veiled orbs so expensive, Catarina is probably the third most lucrative boss to kill in the game (behind Uber Maven at number 1, and Ahuatotli at number 2). Either Uber Eater or Aul might be ahead on certain days of the week. Of course you now can get much worse 'cold streaks' than you used to.

[@borRIING]

@@sirgog The cold streaks is the main reason I hate it. And you're right, the safehouses are just completely skipped now. You'd be lucky to even get 10c worth of stuff from all chests combined. Especially now that we are not building them and just rushing Catarina.

[@MathieuPilot]

Well, since I needed to unlock the recipes anyway, i sspecced into betrayal for my league start. I got 2 veiled chaos orbs in 3-4 catarina before reaching T16 maps. I was extremely surprised by the prices. Best league start I ever had

[@DantesBlowtorch]

Thanks for the update! I'm glad the prices on Veiled Orbs have normalized down to old Aisling prices.

[@sirgog]

It's only the same as the outlier of last league. It's Catarina that's as good as she used to be

[@JanjayTrollface]

I have had 1 from 4 so far. But on a different note, either there are new situational terms/conditions/caveats as to how and where the veiled mod is applied on use or I am in the throws of an astronomical variance swing.

[@vrisvrikkie]

I have done ~120 Catarina runs and I've gotten ~30 veiled orbs so far I'm convinced there is some pre-condition for the orb to drop but I don't know what that pre-condition is. I've had several streaks where I got 3 or 4 orbs on consecutive runs and I've had long dry spells where I did 15, 20 runs and got nothing. This does not feel statistically consistent with a flat drop chance. This week I've gotten 6 orbs from just 10 runs. Based on my experience, the following does NOT affect drop chance: 1) Dying in a syndicate mission, safehouse run or Catarina battle. 2) Board structure. It does not matter at all which divisions members are allocated to.

[@beasthaven1571]

Board structure makes me sad

[@Jamela579]

im at 37 Katharinas with only 2 veiled orbs ! And those came before the patch ! gotten none since !

[@KantemirkO]

A bit of an offtopic: was wondering if there was any statistics done about divination card gamble in the harvest bench. Sometimes I wonder if there is bias towards some outcomes and also the optimal amount of cards to input depending on the complete stack size. Like for a 10 stack is it better to go 2 by 2 by 2, or you get better odds going 5 by 5 by 5. Anyway, thank you for the videos

[@kelex1298]

The 200 runs for 18 orbs is somewhat consistent with mine (though I don't document my runs and don't have exact numbers on them except for number of orbs). I ran about 40 Catarinas and got 3 orbs. Funny thing is, 2 of the orbs were before the buff, within about 15 runs.

[@wizardofswamps]

I ran Catarina and out of 12 kills, I got 2 orb drops the first at kill 8 or 9 the second at 12. Thoughts on doing harvest sacred blossom. Ive had crazy numbers on it and my drop appears to be much much higher that everyone else. I got 5 on 3 runs with back to back double drops and a singular drop. Ive had several double drops also along with long runs with singular drops

[@juzovr5911]

The diadem drop rate is such a depressing drop rate. Farming it in ssf is absolute agony. Finished my boss challenge and didnt get one.

[@tobiaslarsen2302]

Its terrible. Never 5% chance for diadem

[@ryy1704]

Dropped it on my second Catarina 😂

[@kkeithf]

I've done about 200 catarinas. 1 every 4,5 runs sounds about average. Only 2 or 3 diadems. One paradoxica.

[@crazy-tommy]

I got a Veiled Orb for my first 6 Catarinas, so I already thought it was a guaranteed drop back then. In total I did 10 Catarinas until I got my flask unveils and stopped doing Betrayal, which gave me 7 Veiled Orbs ... so a solid 70% chance for me.

[@bigbeare0]

Was there any link between ilvl of the Catarina and veiled orb droprates? I know it used to be a way to reduce the pool for diadem but pretty sure that isn't the case anymore. Were all the Catarinas run ilvl 83?

[@sirgog]

There's a disclosed bias (GGG stated in patch notes) that higher tiers, specifically red map equivalent, are better. We ran 83s. On the uniques, IIRC you get more flasks and less shields and chests at low now

[@risenone7189]

Was hoping to find about ziggurat's uber Catarina, well, maybe next time.

[@sirgog]

I do not believe that she drops it at all. Just Mastermind's Lair cat.

[@poom323]

During early league, I got it everytime I ruj Catarina, then when the price raised, I almost got none.

[@flaxenwall9840]

I didn't think they buffed the veiled orb drop rate in 83 mastermind. The way i read it, they explained how you were more likely to get them in higher catarinas. Fwiw i found 3 in the first 50 on the way to my achievement and then did 10 of them 2 man and got 5.

[@ILikeGuns1992]

12/64 for me so far.

[@dervakommtvonhinten517]

pls keep running this test so we have even more reliable numbers!

[@brocstrecker4134]

I was doing this same thing, all be it much slower lol. I only completed 16 Catarina's, keeping track of how many 3 star members and leaders, total number of ranks/stars and floaters (members not currently in any safe house). I got 5 orbs total, all of them were on boards with 0 floaters with at least 33 total number of stars/ranks. With such a small sample size, likely just random RNG. But it did discourage me from running Catarina before getting everyone in a safe house. In your data, did a veil orb drop with unassigned members? If so I can disregard my small sample size and just go as fast as possible, making it much easier and more lucrative. Thank you and those who gathered the data!

[@sirgog]

Yeah just checked Toulbirger's last screenshot, it had ITF and Elreon as 0 stars, and the Fortification head as a question mark. Got an orb in it.

[@brocstrecker4134]

@@sirgog ok awesome, thanks!

[@cwjalexx]

My experience aligns with your data at 14 orbs out of 62 kills

[@tobiaslarsen2302]

And how many diadems?

[@cwjalexx]

@@tobiaslarsen2302 3 diadems. I wasn't keeping track, but I would guess maybe like 6-7 or so Cane of Kulemak staff's as well.

[@tobiaslarsen2302]

@@cwjalexx I did 40 runs and no diadem. Its just to hard if you have real life too...

[@cwjalexx]

@@tobiaslarsen2302 ah that's rough, rng can be like that. i got 0 diadems in the first 30 or so but then got 3 in the last 32 runs.

[@tobiaslarsen2302]

@@cwjalexx With rain of splinters its even worser. Trying it the last 3 leagues with every crimsom jewel... no luck

[@younggenin2957]

Honesty, I didn’t even realize it wasn’t a guaranteed drop for a while. Must have gotten at least 7 in a row to help me get my mage blood. Then I finally started not getting them and it seemed like a coin flip.

[@theevilmrfry]

Before the "buff" i went 1/13 kills, then they patched it and for a few days id say i was hitting approximately 30-40%, then ive since gone 1/21.

[@lancemurray6216]

In this league so far .. it's about 20% for me.

[@ihateiraq9]

I swear, aisling at rank 3 makes it like a 50/50 for me

[@JelteVisser]

after 3.24.1 I also did ~20 ilvl 83 catarina's for 1 orb

[@reitrac6692]

Between 5/24 to 5/27 i ran 31 and got 2 orbs got rid of jun in every single one of my atlas trees way too variable actually losing money by wasting time on jun

[@morfea123]

Got orb from first kill in SSF. Did not tempt my luck further and ran Gravicious on transport instead.

[@sirgog]

Yeah Gravicius in Transport does some absurd stuff

[@theevilmrfry]

​@sirgog ...for some people. Constantly see people in global chat with their full stack of Sephirot card for 10 div etc...me, oh hi I gave away the good stuff already, best I can do is 5 fossils -.-

[@YouTookMyAccountName]

28 kills with maxed out board (all members rank 3) and 7 orbs

[@rsin314159]

I started the league with Betrayal, got 0 veiled orbs. I have no clue how many kills I had, but it was a fair number.

[@RoryMitchell00]

I've had a bit better luck than you with dropping veiled orbs in my Betrayal farming. My stats are a mix of before and after the patch changing the drop rates. I remember I dropped a veiled orb right from my very first Catarina kill only a few days into the league. And I can see from my client log that I sold it soon after for 5 div (a bit cheap considering later prices, but it helped fuel my early build gear). Anyway, in total I've done Catarina 35 times this league so far, and dropped a total of 10 veiled orbs. That puts it at a bit under a 29% drop rate for me. I was thinking the actual drop rate was closer to the 30% that official sources seemed to suggest, though it could be lower around 25% as you suspect, given my small sample size.

[@kbar4462]

I used to always run Betrayal every league, loved setting up the board and reward rooms. Now that its just Catarina rushing, its much more boring to play

[@fistan5447]

Yeah, spending 15! divine orbs for 1 try of ashling mod, literally turns it into endgame crafting option. Considering the strength of the mods however makes me wonder what on earth would i use it for? +2 aoe helmet and phys to elemental gloves maybe. Its not even guaranteed exalt, just forced remove/add with further RNG for specific mods. Far too expensive, and havent used it once this league.

[@sirgog]

It's funny how it has swapped with the fracturing orb. In past leagues, fractures were ~3 times the price of an Aisling slam. Now it's the other way around.

[@fistan5447]

@@sirgog you know, that was the exact argument ive made in the forums a couple weeks back. Tbh i prefer cheaper fractures to aisling though

[@ArtaEva]

i thought it's 10% after my Leaguestart runs (first 2 weeks), but if someone got ~ 20% believable i suppose.

[@Yoda1903]

I guess I must have been extremly lucky. I did 22 Catarinas and got 13 Veiled Orbs.

[@Boltiten]

I have ran about 20 Catarinas and gotten only 1 orb but 3 hats, guess i have horrible luck..

[@colon_sausage]

🍺

[@SmokeMaxxx]

Me looking at this video having found 4 veiled orbs in 36 (34 level 83) catarinas. EDIT: I found a diadem though, so that's cool.

[@sirgog]

That's just RNG. Cold streaks (and hot streaks) happen. I'm 0 on both veiled orbs and Ahuatotli Adorned frags, think I've done about 10 between the two bosses.

[@SmokeMaxxx]

@@sirgog Oh I didn't mean to imply the data is wrong or anything, it just feels super bad when this happens. Much like how it took me 11 synth maps (+2 synt invitations) to find my first Cortex, despite being estimated to be a 25% drop chance.

[@tlit5190]

I'm at 5/22

[@sanityd1]

Don't discount the idea that GGG have their finger on the scale, I think they always have but I feel like they have become more cavalier this league, divines and veiled orbs being more plentiful early in the league and much less so now late in league. This is of course pure anecdata speculation but what else do we have in a game where we get answers from decompiling the game.

[@cesarpreto1093]

the problem is you ignore entire mechanics and just focus on going as fast possible for Catarina

[@sirgog]

Yeah, it's basically just Aisling and levelling Gravicius if that's easily done. I think Gravy is good everywhere, but he's a REAL lucky dip - disappointing >90% of the time but monstrously good the other times.

[@zfeazcesd1047]

I question the accuracy of some of the numbers given in this comment section…over 50% claimed…multiple people claiming 7 in a row… ive done almost 80 and I’m getting a 23% drop rate.

[@marc-andreblais5818]

i got 1/2 in SSF

[@mega2785]

34 cata 9 veiled

[@sirgog]

Fits in with the "20% or a bit more" hypothesis

[@MathieuPilot]

I should have kept track of it I got 5 and I remember my 'worst' streak was 2 catarina without veil orb. Never reached 3

[@tobiaslarsen2302]

I play SSF and hate all the changes: Diadem almost impossible Vorici white Sockets gone are really bad moves

[@dervakommtvonhinten517]

i can tell you. 18 catarinas, 1 veiled orb. cause ggg seems to have a policy of hiring mainly mentally handicapped people who are then put into key positions for the decision process of how to change the game... say they wanna reduce the barrier of entry and make the game less complex... instead of actually doing that by reworking the wording of many missleading and confusing texts, and properly conveying what a mechanic does, or introducing a training dummy to compensate for the worthless tooltip, they rather murder a farming mechanic that actually had player agency and could be learned in 15 minutes to replace it by yet another lottery farming method where 0 brain is required. gj ggg, good job.

[@stevenhetzel6483]

Legitinately had like a 60-70% drop rate on veiled shortly after league start, stopped farming it in favor of other mechanics. Came back to it a few weeks ago and went 12 straight with no orb. TLDR who the fuck knows, im almost certain theres a hidden qualifier somewhere in there. Also dropped a daidem a solid fourth of the time when I was running her early. All anecdotal, take it as you please.

[@m.h.4907]

I'm 7/7 in SSF with veiled orbs. Would anyway say it is probably 1 in 4 Catarina's to drop it

[@sebastianholsclaw]

Yes waaaaaay too rare. No way that it should cost 15-17 div. 4-8 maybe would be fine.

[@sirgog]

If it was more common, Catarina would be less worth running. If GGG doubled the drop rate the veiled orb would likely drop to a quarter of its current price. We see this with Uber Sirus. His best item by far (Massive Thread) has a ~45% drop rate and it's basically worthless. Last league when it was ~3 times rarer it was ~20 times more valuable, and so was a reason people ran the boss. It's a weird dynamic, but in general increasing drop rates nerfs the reason to do the boss in trade league at least.

[@Sup4Hippo]

@@sirgog Does not apply to a consumable item like veiled orb. Even if it was a guaranteed drop it probably wouldn't go lower than 3div just because demand for them would increase as they get cheaper.

[@sirgog]

@@Sup4Hippo There's a number of comparable consumables that are in the dumpster price wise. Sacrifice room in Atzoatl comes to mind but even the gem corrupt room. Awakener Orb is sometimes in the dumpster too. Agree demand will go up at some point but probably the main limitation will be people quitting doing Betrayal & the market readjusting.

[@Fallen_Person]

I hate this stupid league. Yesterday, I test-launched Katarina twice and got 2 orbs in a row... Today, I've been rushing Katarina all day and got 0 orbs... The previous league was better in every way; there I could guarantee to buff Aisling to get a veiled mod.