PoE 3.25 - More Harbinger Math! (Developing Ratios for Stack # and Stack Quantity for shard drops)

[@charlespanache7047]

Really appreciate how clear you speak. No background noise, and the audio is very crisp. Also I listen at work, when i shouldn't be. It's really easy to listen when you maintain the same voice level. Thank you

[@maygodguideustohaven]

tldr : if you want more div/h use obelist scarab if you want bigger boom then use another +3.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Indeed! Sorry, I get a little longwinded. Trying to work on it though!

[@maygodguideustohaven]

@Hadjy_PoE you got this man maybe try to say the tldr before you start explaining or at the end :)

[@khoernchen3490]

depends if you are looting chaos shards, then it may be more div/h to loot them from harbingers, rather then the spread out obelisks

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@khoernchen3490 Yeah that is definitely something to consider too/might push you to remove chaos shards from your filter.

[@Docjakel]

Did you explain how you pick up all the loot? I listened while working , and enjoyed the video. The loot filter being explained was great. I end up avoiding this farm because I get tired on the constant clicking. Loot filter is never sink uberstrict!

[@ratticus]

Damn that's some excellent tracking and analysis. Thanks so much for doing this. Good luck with your chase of the mirror shards.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Thanks!

[@thepope5795]

Really cool to see all the data and work you've put in this. Thanks!

[@TwinTailsRyu]

Big props for showing the data

[@Brahma001]

I want to thank you, for all the effort you have put inside this testing and documentation.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

No problem at all! I tend to keep track of drops to some degree while playing to figure out profit and such, but not usually to this level.

[@WCFactBreak]

Very very good analysis, especially considering that the time to do obelisk compared to excra harbies is much lower, it seems to be definitely worth it

[@SeekAkron]

what about the quality of the shards? doesnt boss shards > regular harby shards in terms of quality?

[@khoernchen3490]

could be equal if you take into account that looting the obelisks takes way longer then 3 extra harbingers (depending on the lootfilter ofcourse)

[@mantastyle9078]

Good stuff, idk why this video appeared on my feed but subbed! :D Love your analysis

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Thanks! Hope you get good RNG if you're trying it!

[@joseluiscuervolopez-mora1814]

Amazing vid bro! What do you work at?? I am missing here a total number of annuls and ancient orbs comparison between the two setups!

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Thanks! I didn't develop a large set comparison on individual orb drop differences between the two setups as I saw them to be (most likely) ambiguous/randomly selected with drop weights or something like that when a shard is generated. I didn't see any reason to distrust that assumption, but without a large sample set, I'm not sure that I can say that with high confidence either. I would expect to see more shards per map with the obelisks, with ~22% more stacks of shards dropped, and ~1.5% more shards in total (due to the smaller stack sizes from obelisks). That would definitely smooth the "jackpot" aspect of the fractures/mirror shard drops, and with that many more stacks dropping also gives you a lot more opportunity for inflated value from the roughly 5% chance for shard->orb conversion. But, as you've commented elsewhere, you're probably making less profit if you choose obelisks over the added harbingers/ignore the general loot that the added harbingers mobs can drop.

[@faederSSF]

Thoroughly impressed with this. One additional factor that may skew even further in favour of the obelisks is the time per map, as I expect it should be shorter for scenario one. Is this something you’ve noticed?

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Thanks! Yes, obelisks are definitely faster, and that is definitely one factor I left out. Thanks for pointing that out!

[@Snugs_TTV]

The recent shift in lower cost of ancient orbs and the related scarabs. Direct result in price drop of hh and mb. Fracturing orbs have stabilized because of crafting

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Good to know! I haven't been updating those prices every time, but that will definitely skew the profitability quite a bit if the market shifts one way or another.

[@Snugs_TTV]

@@Hadjy_PoE I'm thinking about running deli mirror combo'ed with this, Shouldn't be too hard if I drop some scarab nodes

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@Snugs_TTV Definitely more mobs/loot, if you can handle the added difficulty without slowing down too much. You could just hit your maps with a cheap delirium orb if you're not wanting to give up a bunch of atlas points and just want the added mobs - that's what I did for some of my T17s.

[@mg8617-t8x]

Quality content! Good job mate, thank you for sharing! Pd: i love spreadsheets

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Thanks! I think that is a mandatory for truly enjoying PoE as well 😅

[@Klimawandel20]

i always did obelisk since start of league because i consistently got most of my frac shards drop from those obelisks. and the good thing was that obelisk scarabs are very cheap

[@Hadjy_PoE]

It was a good call!

[@michaelkatanik812]

Good job ❤

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Thanks!

[@philophobic8023]

whenever i was farming harbies I looked at this simply from a gamblers point of view .... obelisks are basically retriggers on slots meaning that they give u more rolls for fracturing shards hence they should be theoretically way better

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Right, you're definitely increasing the # of tries on the slot wheel in that metaphor. You're Limiting the potential maximum outcome, but the numbers still make more sense to use obelisks.

[@trackts]

Obelisks = 9 to 10 extra shard triggers. Harbinger scarab = 2 kings + 1 harbinger on average. The 1 to 2 free harbingers from the Atlas Tree makes obelisk be a bit more desirable than another harbinger scarab in my opnion.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@trackts Agreed. That is what I was saying in the video, although I am purposefully going the other way while targeting the mirror shard drop/considering the average stack size as the most desirable factor in that regard.

[@OtterSeaborne8901]

Great video, but I'm sticking with harbinger count because, in my experience, I see nearly as much loot from the harbinger monsters and the beyond monsters those spawn as from the actual harbinger shards. That's probably skewed by running T17s, but even in 16s with the shard numbers this close I'd be very tempted to raise mob count for non-shard drops over a very small boost to shards per map.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Can't disagree with you there! The obelisks provide slightly more value in currency shards, they keep the maps a bit shorter/easier, and the scarab is cheaper, but you definitely sacrifice that added value from the harbinger's summoned mobs.

[@ccciel000]

Great video, subscribed ❤

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Thanks! I'm working on keeping things shorter (struggling and failing mostly), but please give me any other feedback you have!

[@ccciel000]

@@Hadjy_PoE Yea idk I liked listening to your thoughts, I'm a boomer I dont need 20second shorts haha

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@ccciel000 Ha! Glad to hear it works for some people at least! I can't stand shorter videos myself either for most stuff.

[@ncuriousmediator9434]

But does the Scarab of Warhoards work on obelisks? It only mentions harbingers in the description.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Warhoards does duplicate the obelisk currency shard drops, yes. Sorry about that!

[@Carbanium]

Subbed. Thank you for the info and analysis.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Thanks!

[@Ruzzy23]

Cheers, another good Harby video. Have been pretty profitable so far using your previous video but no obelisk scarab. Would you say the maps are faster with obelisk scarab or not much difference? I'm not normally a div/hr fiend but I'm only going to be playing an hour or 2 max per day for the next couple of weeks.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

My maps have definitely been faster with the obelisk scarab. That makes sense due to the obelisks being present immediately/not needing to wait on three additional harbingers to do their minion summoning waves (which is a bit slow if they aren't already stacked up or you full clear multiple screens in one click with your build). Hope you get some free time! If you're looking for a quicker farm, you might try a boss rush delirium setup instead. If you can wait for bulk quantities to sell delirium orbs that is.

[@Ruzzy23]

@Hadjy_PoE just in the middle of swapping builds to HH zoomer LS build so I'll try that one too. From your earlier video correct? There's something nice about Harbies though like the loot is just simple. Deli orbs are easy to sell too so no worries plus Deli is fun too. Thanks for your help

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@Ruzzy23 Yeah mine is a pretty simple example, but there are a good amount of videos out there about it if you want other perspectives too. I like boss rush delirium for how much faster it is, but you're rarely getting big hits of value. It is much more profitable though because the maps are so faster and because of how well delirium orbs sell in bulk currently.

[@Ruzzy23]

@@Hadjy_PoE Just wanted to share that I dropped 2 mirror shards today. Obviously very lucky considering the low amount of maps I've completed, but thanks for the strat and keep up the good work!

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@Ruzzy23 Congrats! And thanks, I'll try!

[@Kure_Games]

Can you test imbued harbingers? Curious if it’s any good, also tier 17 harbinger farming vs t16s.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

I will put imbued harbingers on the list, but probably won't get to it this league unfortunately. I have run around 30 maps with T17 harbingers - you see a lot more value from the mobs that they're spawning due to having more quantity/rarity/the "more" modifiers on the T17 maps, but no change to the currency shards dropped by the harbingers themselves.

[@rbnoff]

thank you for this, i got luck enough to see a duped mirror shard in just 60 maps, but haven't seen one in another 300 , still counting, testing myself the obelisk as well and consistency is confirmed

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Wow, in the first 60! That's gotta be waaay on the lucky side.

[@rbnoff]

@@Hadjy_PoE yes, haven't seriously farmed harbi until now and my reaction was quite casual, seeing shards in shipments anyway, and after I realized what just happened

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@rbnoff The casual 100 div+ drop doesn't phase you! 😄

[@trose77]

mirror shard dupe with this yesterday morning :D

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Congrats!

[@deepz000ne]

ty for your hard work

[@69Some0ne69]

I got 2 mirror shards from obelisks in 30 maps, very very lucky, too bad they're just 30d each

[@Hadjy_PoE]

"just 30d each" .... 😅 Congrats!

[@kapistar1]

Amazing video, thank you for this subscribed immediately. Only point of feedback I have is, as others have also pointed out, you might want to work on a summary/conclusion of your findings for it to be easier to understand

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Thanks! And will do!

[@ElmaVikalia]

hi, can i run harbinger strat with just alch n go map or do i need 8mod ?

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Sorry for the slow reply! Yes you can run just alch and go - the harbingers currency shards are not affected by map quant/rarity/pack size, so thats perfectly fine. You could even run your maps scoured if you like/are only targeting the currency shards. You would get more loot from the mobs that the harbinger spawns/the native mobs in the map with more quantity/rarity on the map though. Take on as much difficulty as you are comfortable with without slowing your build down a lot - thats my approach. Good luck!

[@Schager_]

I haven't finished watching the video but a thought crossed my mind. Is there no way to scale harbingers except for pack size? Specifically I was thinking about monstrous lineage scarab, I'd appreciate if anyone had some insight into this if the video doesn't go over it

[@Hadjy_PoE]

The harbinger currency shards that drop seem to not scale with anything at all. The mobs that the harbingers spawn are affected by basically everything though. Monstrous lineage is an interesting idea. You would be swapping out 3 harbingers for that scarab, but it still sounds reasonably close to a break even point (other than the loss in harbingers themselves/their shards). Could be worth trying! You could also disregard the harbinger currency shards entirely, run 3 harbinger scarab, probably still keep the 1 harbinger boss scarab, and monstrous lineage, just focusing on the packs themselves.

[@Schager_]

@@Hadjy_PoE Yeah I was just curious if it's possible to increase the amount of shards that the harbingers drop or not (outside of warhoards scarab that is). Another thing I was thinking about was if exarch altars chance to duplicate basic currency modifier works on the shards or not.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@Schager_ The prevailing opinion is nothing in the game affects harbinger currency shards dropped (other than things that directly say they do). I am very confident that currency duplication altars don't affect shards either. I am still working to see if currency duplication can duplicate a converted shard->orb though, but I think I need to get near 100% duplication to have any degree of confidence on that one. And that would take 2 or more blue altars (or 4+ red altars) on the high end of the possible duplication % roll.

[@Schager_]

@@Hadjy_PoE Thanks a lot! I really appreciate the input!

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@Schager_ No problem! Hope you drop many fracturing orbs!

[@Comuniou956]

i dropped 6x mirror shards with scenario 2. so i guess i stick with that

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Wow thats great! Congrats on the ~175 div pop! This guy taking all the good RNG 😅

[@Comuniou956]

@@Hadjy_PoE For real never get one mirror shards and than i get 6 in one league.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@Comuniou956 Congrats!

[@Istratail]

thanks a lot ! :P

[@Hadjy_PoE]

No problem!

[@chesterxp508]

GoodJob!

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Thanks!

[@HaKaise]

Holy fish.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

?

[@HaKaise]

@@Hadjy_PoE great video

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@HaKaise Thanks!

[@bustinjieber9600]

hi, can you share your loot filter?

[@Hadjy_PoE]

I just use filterblade very strict and reduce over time. You could easily hop to that/customize a bit, or even take on higher strictness.

[@doublekillful]

This is interesting,but really if the obelisk drops more shards,theres a highter chance to drop your mirror shard,should try it in much more maps

[@Hadjy_PoE]

I agree 100%. That is what I was trying to say at the end of the video - I fully expect to burn out on Harbingers but am pushing for that 1 instance of mirror shards. If I farmed obelisks it would surely occur sooner, but at a lower expected stack size. That is the only scenario I see it making sense to not use obelisks.

[@doublekillful]

@@Hadjy_PoE im already into 150maps with x3 harby scarabs,so far no mirror shard and only like 4 frac orbs,pretty unlucky,im going to be testing obelisk as well after im done with my 40 remaining maps. About the lower stack size yea i guess,but you also have to notice that ypu got a node on atlas that can covert the shards dropped to a full orb,so if we talking mirror shard yes you get less stacks with obelisk,but if the obelisk makes them drop more often thats alot highter% to convert them into a mirror.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@doublekillful Yep thats also definitely worth considering. I am estimating the shard->orb conversion rate somewhere between 3-6% (probably 5 if its been arbitrarily chosen), but it definitely has an impact on your value outcome. It leans in favor of using obelisks even more, thats for sure, but my logic still stands on the "one and done" approach with the mirror shard target/not counting on the unlikely outcome of a conversion.

[@rbx-n4u]

share lootfilter pls

[@Hadjy_PoE]

The specialized loot filter to see all currency shards/orbs was just the highest strictness on filterblade with all the single stacks of currency shards/orbs enabled. I would not recommend it.

[@purplecatfishz2112]

Show atlas tree please

[@Hadjy_PoE]

So long as you're taking the three harbinger wheels you can't go wrong. I'm currently adding in beyond and blue altars, but its nothing fancy by any means.

[@wh1117]

CLOWN XD

[@Hadjy_PoE]

Thanks! I assume you're against Harbinger farms then?

[@Carbanium]

This guy is just a troll. He’s upset that other people are sharing info that helps others.

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@Carbanium Ah, well, engagement is engagement!

[@StoneDeceiver]

@@Hadjy_PoE CLOWN XD™

[@Hadjy_PoE]

@@StoneDeceiver got em