Hosea VS Dutch Arguments / Hidden Dialogue / Red Dead Redemption 2

[@ShadowBolt995]

Arthur turned into Hosea by the end of the game.

[@rainsplashwarrior7725]

At least he followed the right father

[@stinkusdinkus9255]

He even uses some of Hoseas quotes

[@glowhoo9226]

All the way down to the sickness

[@FeliX-TobiYahs-C]

"he insists?"

[@redbeard3946]

He had to, but he was too late by then. Playing this game hurt like hell.

[@valeral92]

Don’t forget it was Hosea who was against robbing that train back in chapter 1 that belonged to Leviticus Cornwall. It was after that robbery when he started sponsoring Pinkertons to find Dutch. If they stayed away from that train, they could’ve shaken off the Pinkertons easily. Hosea was right from the very start. Even before that he was saying that Blackwater robbery was a bad idea.

[@skeletonjanitor]

@@thedestroyer5377 what

[@TheC0unt]

Dutch is not a rat. He's simply a master manipulator. He picked a bunch of misfit treated them like people only to have them as pawn. To Dutch every move he made was like a chess move. He sacrifice anyone just to get ahead and get what he wants.

[@TheC0unt]

@@thedestroyer5377 who's author?

[@thedestroyer5377]

DemiGod a rat doesn’t always mean they are snitching. A rat can always be a slang turn for fake friend in gangs that’s common

[@patrickgracias5782]

DemiGod Micah was the one manipulating Dutch, get your facts straight.

[@kpsa7108]

Hosea knew he didn't have long left to live. Wanted to see everyone made it before he died. Just like Arthur felt when he knew he didn't have long

[@tracyrae4854]

You sound like Hosea I miss him

[@tracyrae4854]

@DoogieBowser true

[@lukeskywalker2913]

Arthur became hosea

[@MyaB1986]

What was Hosea struggling with, that cough sounds like Arthur's but it wasn't progressing as fast. Cancer?

[@mohd8877]

Except Arthur saw the end of it :(

[@popspy7665]

Everybody gangster til Hosea starts coughing

[@zephyr_x45]

I walked down in camp and went to Hosea and he started coughing and I nearly started crying.

[@galilalexandro4793]

Did hosea had TB or something because I haven’t played RDR2

[@galilalexandro4793]

Ninjas Edition dude I don’t have a pc,Xbox or PlayStation , can you just tell me

[@galilalexandro4793]

Ninjas Edition I’ll check it out

[@taron1868]

Galil Alexandro hosea didn’t have tb

[@JustinCage56]

2:03 "By the time they find out where we are, we'll be gone!" "Where to?" *Plan.exe has stopped working*

[@matthewzablocki5310]

Totally deserves 1.k likes. Had me rolling.

[@JamesJohnson-nm5pu]

Lmaoooo

[@vajkperduk]

To Tahiti or Australia

[@ifabianxd1338]

To a place where I can make my plans, without any single one of you constantly doubting me!

[@basedjohnson3111]

*He just needs some time and faith!*

[@nicklynch216]

I take it back, Dutch was going crazy since the mountain after he killed the girl on the ferry

[@balabanasireti]

That was definitely the beginning of the end. Like most people, Dutch's madness is the result of multiple actions. I always thought it was because even after all the things the gang did, they never killed children. Dutch couldn't accept doing something bad and had to be constantly perfect in his own mind after that.

[@tracyrae4854]

@@balabanasireti it would be cool if the The Blackwater Mission was called Inching closer and closer to Insanity

[@THETalesFromTheAbyss]

Dutch told.me in chapter 2 he thought I'd betray him. I'd say he was crazy all along.

[@zephyr_x45]

tbh I wanna play the Blackwater mission with Jenny once. Like as an extra to the game to have I would.

[@zephyr_x45]

@@HOTD108_ yeah sure but afterwards I would like to know what really happened

[@glowhoo9226]

“I have a plan Arthur” “Can you tell us the plan?” “Money” “What do you mean Dutch” “You sound doubtful my boy” “I’m just worried dutch” “HAVE SOME GODDAMN FAITH ARTHUR!!”

[@MoreKayare2Fye]

The Spanish Inquisition that was literally most of the arguments because Micah was in his ear 🤣💯🤦🏾‍♂️

[@Alexalmo]

RDR 2 in a Nutshell

[@zephyr_x45]

You forgot one thing. SON.

[@alexanderchristian8809]

😂 yep that’s a Dutch plan.

[@Satellite_Of_Love]

"I have a plan!" "What's the plan, Dutch?" "Money, Arthur!" "Muneh?" "MONEY!" "What about it?" "It's a gas! We're gonna grab that cash with both hands and make a stash!"

[@johndasalty111]

It's an amazing storytelling trick. At the beginning of the game, Dutch's words sound inspiring, because you're hearing it from chapter 1 Arthur, who had chapter 6 Javier's mentality towards Dutch. Then by chapter 6 Arthur hears Dutches words how Hosea probably always heard them: reckless, unnecessary, and potentially damaging.

[@madamebkrt]

Great analysis.

[@CyberSonic-V3.0]

Yea something I noticed on my second play through of the game is how Dutch sounded crazy from the beginning but was able to balance the insanity and recklessness with charisma and inspiring faith in the others. Two things he began to lose by the end which made him look more like the lunatic he always was deep down.

[@missbelled6700]

@@CyberSonic-V3.0 Yep, pretty much the whole time he just spouts vague stuff and then gets all surly at people who want details or doubt his words at all. Lots of empty compliments and platitudes that are constantly undermined by his actions.

[@Ghost_-nz5dy]

Well the sad part is I don’t think Dutch had always intended to go that route as according to the Wikipedia and all the other stuff that I was able to put together from reading the journals and stuff Dutch much like how Arthur has said countless times in the game actually tried to help people when they first started out the criminal career but by the time of red dead redemption two that doesn’t happen as often as it used to they’re more out for themselves now

[@Ghost_-nz5dy]

And to add on that what’s interesting is that there’s plenty of times in red dead redemption two where the gang would help people the problem is that they would actually use them for their own benefit something that they never used to do I really wish they would give us like a book or a comic or something exploring the actual rise of the gang Since RDR two is more of the fall

[@indeathreborn2947]

Around the chapter where Dutch plans to kill Bronte Hosea was against it trying to talk him out of it. He even told Dutch he will doom them all

[@kpsa7108]

I believe Micah was really a rat waaaay earlier. Blackwater was his plan. Even Arthur going on the cliff to watch Colm meeting was his direction

[@ibrahimahmad7201]

IN DEATH REBORN yeah he said you gonna damn us All

[@vajkperduk]

FakeNinja It wasn’t Micah. Milton said he started to rat out the gang when they returnd from Guarma. But I have a crazy idea. Let’s talk about the Saint denis bank. They killed Hosea but somehow Abigal managed to escape. They killed Lenny to, but Jhon just get captured. After that Jhon was in prison for a long time. Why did they hasitate to hang him? So I think Abigal was the rat before Micah. She wanted to protect her family. She’s the only one who makes sense. I know it sounds like bullshit, but it is logical too.

[@nobunaga-oda]

@@fakeninja4447 🤔

[@alvarengaaustin]

@@fakeninja4447 to keep her image with the gang maybe?

[@alexkelsey7058]

Hosea’s constant coughing was a sign that reason was dying. Dutch getting more and more reckless as Hosea got sicker. Even if the bank fiasco hadn’t happened, the gang would have fell apart after Hosea died.

[@glowhoo9226]

Yeah, Hosea probably had either tb or some other sickness. It definitely wasn’t smallpox or cholera, since those diseases are very easy to spot.

[@antthomas7916]

@@glowhoo9226 I'm thinking if was lung cancer.

[@Professional_street_hustler]

It could’ve just been old age living the out law life for decades probably takes a few years off your lifespan

[@Professional_street_hustler]

Nadz okay and people didn’t live as long back then and Hosea looks pretty damn old in the game he could’ve got a very minor sickness and still die from it due to not having access to modern medicine and not having a house or anywhere warm besides a camp fire probably doesn’t do your body any favors

[@sadieadler3065]

The_SCP _Foundation Maybe Asthma? Same cough I have...

[@josephpatterson8917]

Hosea coming around the tent coughing: Dutch: Why do I hear boss music?

[@newerax1009]

Lmao

[@SirToaster9330]

I heard this is his voice

[@NicoParasite]

Damn it, i really miss Hosea. It's amazing how a good written story can get you emotional with a video game character.

[@floydthomas2194]

So do I hosea didn't deserve to die

[@hunterwilliams284]

NicoParasite dude I dead ass cried when Micah shot aurther

[@s.t.mwalsh613]

@@hunterwilliams284 no you got the bad/low honor ending. Arthur died of tb watching the sunrise on the good/high honor ending.

[@sleepchasers08]

It’s even sadder how Hosea had an in game outfit for Guarma, in the files. He was meant to survive.

[@MohammedAhmed1230]

All the characters who died would have picked arthurs side at the last mission 😥

[@kambuchanan9876]

7:59 "I always got your back" unfortunately Dutch didn't have his :(

[@matthewzablocki5310]

And then left John for dead. Loved that John Charles Sadie were loyal to Authur in the end.

[@arandompersonlol1202]

@@matthewzablocki5310 ARTHUR

[@kambuchanan9876]

@taded oats yeah but Dutch went crazy 😔 javier was blinded by loyalty twoards Dutch 😔 and Bill was probably kinda crazy too or just loyal aswell 😔

[@kambuchanan9876]

@@fakeninja4447 yeah you explained it better. Also someone once said that after the trolly mission in chapter 4 where dutch hits his head, that's when he begins to slowly get paranoid and crazy. Accusing Everyone of doubting him.

[@kambuchanan9876]

@DODO MCGuy i mean not insane but he became very paranoid twoards the end

[@IgorMacIgor]

I like how Arthur started as a boy blinded believer of Dutch just like Javier and Bill then ended up being a wise independent man who grew aware of Dutch's delusional mind just like Hosea. What a character.

[@reecehaire3232]

Hosea was usually right

[@am-marx7531]

He was always right.

[@gk0539]

I miss Hosea

[@sean543213]

@@am-marx7531 People forget that Hosea supported the idea of playing both the Grays and Braithwaites which we know how that ended. He was also pushing the idea of robbing the Saint Denis bank when even Dutch was hesitant and said he had a bad feeling about it. Hosea wasn't perfect, but he definitely kept Dutch grounded for the most part.

[@nobunaga-oda]

@@sean543213 👍🏻

[@bruhmoment9046]

Always right

[@Winabagel23]

Like two brothers, they are. Hosea's an inciteful worrywart which will lead to criticism and Dutch is too proud to take constructive criticism and doesn't give himself time to worry. Definitely would lead to lots of conflict

[@deathitself6985]

Hosea kept Dutch in check :/

[@borjadecoy25]

@@deathitself6985 And Dutch kept Hosea optimistic and hopeful, without him he worries too much and doesn't commit to anything, they complemented each other perfectly.

[@leeannmiller1727]

Also Arthur was a little bit of both so he completed it.

[@rinzler1801]

imagine a red dead game with 3 playable characters similar to gta 5. arthur, hosea,, and dutch set sometime in the 1870s. i’d play that.

[@rinzler1801]

back when they were still Robin Hood type criminals that gave money to the poor and not a desperate band of outlaws with the entire government closing in on them

[@JaxValentine]

I feel like Dutch knew he messed up, and that wasn’t the first time he did. He always relied on Hosea and Arthur, mainly on Hosea’s ideas and Arthur’s support. But Hosea knew he was dying and was running out of ideas, I feel like this was the first time Dutch felt he was losing Hosea’s faith. And deep down he knew he was right but too stubborn to accept it and fooled by his experiences to understand this time was too serious. After Hosea’s death and TB Arthur started to see things clearly too. This time was different. Dutch lost both Hosea’s ideas that saved them and Arthur’s trust that kept him going, both replaced by Micah’s ideas that led them to end Micah’s false faith that made him think that he was going the right direction. I feel bad for him, his brother and son deserted him and rightly so. But everything they did was to save him and the others. Like Arthur said, “ I gave you all I had, Dutch.” That was the point where Dutch realized everything he did led him to hell, but it was too late. Boy, I can’t tell you how much I wanna see the old guard in their prime. Young Dutch charisma they all been talking about, Hosea in his prime and ideas that saved them from everything and young, hot headed unruly young man Arthur, back then he was a man of ladies, a ruthless gunslinger that made everybody respect -and be afraid of- him.

[@erikbouma9408]

Arthur Morgan you’re right. After Arthur died Dutch saw how Micah was manipulating him and killed him. I suppose Dutch went crazy after the gang fell and became ruthless.

[@missbelled6700]

Adding onto Arthur's "I gave you all I had," that really reminds me of Molly's poem to Dutch that you find in their tent. It's basically 3 or 4 stanzas of her saying "you made me everything I am so I give it all to you." Seems to be a running theme with Dutch treating people poorly in the end and being the one to really lose faith, when they well and truly cared for him with all their heart.

[@janusceasar7851]

@@erikbouma9408 Micah never manipulating him though, rather its the opposite.

[@sigmus5543]

@@janusceasar7851 i feel like micha didn't really have to manipulate dutch he just had to tap into the part of him that makes him do crazy shit

[@abzreedus]

i love your work arthur

[@juliusmy3369]

I didn’t know there was camp interactions at the snow

[@Point_Zero]

ya, there a few unique ones that show up there

[@puppet1show626]

R* : see i pulled the sneaky on ta

[@Dashx64]

the game was supposed to start up maybe even during the blackwater job, and the grizzlies was a massive area before it got cut. Cumberland forest was way bigger too. As was guarma and the butcher creek area. We even lost all 4 towns/settlements that were up North, and the del lobo gang owned the grizzlies so much of their territory was cut too. Guarma was a whole damn island! Its probably up North were Karen went, which is why she is the only member not found in the epilogue Somehow R* needed more dev time, but ahhh thats the way it is sometimes

[@TurtleeyTY]

@@Dashx64 didnt lose anything that was up north... they just moved it all closer together

[@rascallygoose4926]

@@TurtleeyTY Tempest Rim was an area that was cut, it’s in map boundaries but you can’t access it without glitches

[@chair7261]

John: “Arthur? Why you hidin in your room?” Arthur: “Daddy and Daddy are fighting again”

[@mayarussell]

i cant tell u how much i laughed at this except it would be john hiding to lmao they both got adopted young by hosea and dutch

[@TIMETECH07]

John: lemme hide with you, let my wife join in the fight

[@king__T]

Did you get this from that one dudes comment?

[@arachnoman7421]

This is gold

[@luke8801]

@@mayarussell they were both adopted young by Dutch and Hosea. They were essentially brothers.

[@henrimourant9855]

Hosea says at the camp at Horseshoe Overlook: "At this rate we'll be in New York by Christmas". Then near the end in Chapter 6 Dutch tells Arthur that he plans to bring the gang to New York because that's where the Pinkertons will least expect them. lol

[@tetraxis3011]

Read the comment as he said it.

[@kambuchanan9876]

I like Dutch's coat in the first scene

[@shadowman4941]

His coat looks like if Santas coat was black than red.

[@Amogus-vf3mf]

Doesn’t he wear it in the epilogue

[@o.h2202]

What kind of coat is that? Lamb skin? Id like to own one looks so cool and warm

[@y0uar3deadjunior89]

I want it in online

[@turtlemasteralpha119]

Dutch Van_der_linde he wars a different coat

[@collindetreich9695]

Hosea: No at this rate, we'll be in New York by Christmas. Arthur: I couldn't think of anything worse. Dutch after Hosea's death: We're goin' to New York!

[@MrFusion]

Damn, that's some missable foreshadowing, kinda.

[@Dashx64]

holy shit thats right! jesus Dutch

[@burnthetrolls5971]

Arthur's right that is the worst well New York at anytime of the year is the worst

[@Falconxooo08]

My god 😲

[@bernardosantos8020]

true, they were gonna get a boat to Tahiti up in New York, i recon

[@astrax2426]

Dutch: I have a plan. Arthur: Another one? Dutch: It's a good one this time son. Arthur: Yeah, what is it? Dutch: Money. Arthur: That's it? Dutch: Have some faith son. Arthur: Always Dutch, but... Dutch: Did you just betray me?

[@ronaldomoura1932]

Arthur: no Dutch, i... Dutch: GodDamn SNeKs

[@JB-xl2jc]

I'm afraid I have to insist on hearing more details.

[@jasondyrkacz8270]

Dutch: Insist?

[@Mephiles2003]

Arthur: Yeah… Insist.

[@jmb8712]

Anybody else want a RDR3 with a young Hosea since he and Dutch formed the gang so we could find out how he met John Arthur etc and learn more about the dead like Jenny and Davey

In 1878 Hosea was 55 cuz in 1899 he's 76(IF IM WRONG don't tell me I just saw it from a vid long ago)

[@FrankTheRandomCommenter]

As we can hear in the game if there is a RDR3 it will be about the brothers which one of them (probably the protagonist) dies in the Blackwater heist meanwhile his brother dies at the start of RDR2 so they can use it as: We control him and see how the Blackwater heist started and when he dies we got Arthur back. This time rockstar gave us some info for the character so when we play as him we will know who he was instead of not talking about him like what happened with Arthur in rdr1

[@jmb8712]

@@FrankTheRandomCommenter The Callandar brothers?

[@FrankTheRandomCommenter]

@@jmb8712 i think

[@mr_lemon9349]

I preffer a small dlc cause i dont see what evolutions can rockstar make in RDR3

[@corvo_und6]

In players vision: Hosea and Dutch arguments In Arthur vision: *Daddy and Daddy arguments*

[@DearValentina]

Why not- and hear me out now, *Father and Father arguments*?

[@corvo_und6]

@@DearValentina yeah makes sense

[@Cubeeeeeeeee]

*DADDY AND DADDY ARGUMENTS*

[@val4128]

it sucks when daddy and daddy start fighting :(

[@kucinghoren7864]

Two dads! Very san andreas Lazlow 2013

[@Beatle-Byrd]

2:10 Hosea laughing like that is seriously one of the funniest things in the game.

[@MoonLight-bw4yo]

He He He

[@Homophobic_racist_sexist_pdf]

Hæ hă hehe hěh

[@deworldzlastpunk666]

sounds like hes crying

[@anakinskinwalker1724]

Minecraft Villager 😂

[@Sergmanny46]

@@deworldzlastpunk666 Could be both.

[@MK_84]

It’s sad how Hosea said «we’ll be in New York by Christmas». Almost half of the gang had either fled or died by May, including him. And all because of Dutch’s bad leading...

[@tracyrae4854]

Yea 😪

[@MK_84]

R.I.P Hosea

[@tracyrae4854]

@@MK_84 😭😭

[@flowonthego]

Eh I'd argue more so everytime he has a chance, Micah fucked that all up. Which fueled the spiral even more.

[@MK_84]

flowonthego Yes, I agree. Micah also played a vital role in the gang’s downfall. It felt good to revenge all the deaths and finally kill him.

[@John-uh5et]

Hosea reminds me of an old Booker DeWitt. Looks wise anyway.

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

I thought I was the only one that thought that. Nice.

[@qwertz7430]

I love bioshock infinite

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

@@qwertz7430 Me too. Hence my nickname.

[@kylegivens3120]

Booker is a damn Pinkerton though.

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

@@kylegivens3120 True but he hated his job at least. If that matters.

[@YouCanCallMeSus]

The saddest thing was when Hosea said to Dutch that theyve turned into a bunch of killers and are not even trying to hide it anymore. He was extremely upset that Dutch shot that innocent girl because it was the one thing Dutch always preached against. Hosea was never a killer, he was a bad man, a swindler, a trickster who robbed people but he never killed people and when he saw what Dutch was turning into he could only say: "You'll doom us all." Best character in RDR2.

[@quirkypurple3]

hosea says he was a killer decades ago but said “when necessary”. there’s a difference between self defense and killing someone in cold blood. what dutch did to heidi mccourt was totally unnecessary. the way dutch avoids talking about it at all implies that he either couldn’t help but act erratic and violent or doesn’t even know why he did it

[@planescaped]

@@quirkypurple3 Yeah, it was either a spur of the moment lashing out in frustration/anger thing, or just to threaten/intimidate (like in RDR1) Either way it was unnecessary and no accident.

[@arthurmorganhere]

In RDR1, Dutch again kills a innocent lady while John tells me to release her. He also starts to kill people in cold blood, he told his members not to kill anyone in cold blood, he had a moral principle at first, but he broke it. He's fully insane in RDR1.

[@Krome168]

Hosea: 'We'll be in New York by Christmas.' Arthur: 'I can't think of anything worse.' You and me both buddy.

[@Satellite_Of_Love]

"Dutch, we've been walking for 10 blocks now, can't you just ask for directions to Times Square?" "I. HAVE. A PLAN!!"

[@thecowboy9698]

As big an influence Dutch had on Arthur, after Arthur diagnosed with TB; the news shaking him to his core, what emerged was the spirit of Hosea. Clearly, Hosea had a more profound influence on Arthur than Dutch ever did. Micah, on the other hand, was a lot more like Dutch, which explains why Dutch came to rely on him more.

[@thechickenslittl1373]

so if micah and arthur became friends they would be dutch and hosea?

[@LongJohn617]

IMO Arthur did take after Hosea and John is the most like Dutch

[@sarahimran946]

even before the tb diagnosis, arthur talks about hosea in his journal in a manner that makes it clear how much he looks up to him and cares about him. I think he was loyal to dutch sure, but always like hosea more.

[@P90XGetRipped]

RIP Hosea, he was the wisest member of the gang. He always knew what and what not to do.

[@varnelkythe761]

It really speaks how Dutch reacts when Hosea asks him about his plan. He is oversensitive about trust and he treats questions about his “plan” he masks his anger/irritation with motivation of taking care of everyone, effectively directing blame.

[@MegaChorro123]

1:07 “You doubting me too?” “Never” “Good” The way he approves of this just shows that Dutch was always an opportunist cult leader who just wanted people to follow him blindly the from the start of the game. He just showed who he truly always was in chapter 6.

[@helmaschine1885]

EXACTLY Hate when people keep going on about how it's all Micah's influence who made him "go crazy".

[@MegaChorro123]

@@helmaschine1885 Fr 😂

[@lavishlyvice]

I love how everyone turns into a psychologist whenever Dutch literally says anything at all lmao

[@cocob0l0]

@@lavishlyvice Lmao I know right? The point is that it’s open to interpretation, and we won’t ever have a concrete answer unless R* provides us with said information confirming either he did go crazy or that he was always this way

[@AmManTalks]

Damn, is Arthur fuming with anger at 6:27

[@justinobj4551]

I wonder why

[@popularcomment4681]

That's Dutch..

[@-bluejay211]

Amman Nega that actually made me laugh my ass off, thank you 😂

[@dutchvanderlinde6654]

Hosea pissed me off

[@dutchvanderlinde6654]

I was trying goddamn it

[@JC839]

Dutch “We keep heading west” Hosea: “But we’re heading East” Dutch: 👁👄👁

[@Betito1171]

Benjamin Bryon Davis deserves bigger roles in movies he’s honestly incredible

[@MrBlack252]

You can really tell the difference in Arthur from the beginning to the end, how his perception of Dutch changed. It went from "do you doubt me too Arthur" to which he says "never" then by the end he's 100 percent doubting everything Dutch does by saying "I don't get you no more". Even by the end you could tell Dutch really did see Arthur and John as his unofficial sons.

[@franciscochagas6242]

Pq ele via

[@MrsJasmyn45]

To me, it sounds like Hosea's a little afraid of Dutch.

[@flyingrancidm00nfish7]

I think the point is even though Hosea saw Dutch (and Arthur) as family, he also saw the potential of what kind of monster he could become, he could see the truth behind all the members of the gang and knew who they all really were. He was a very shrewd judge of character; he liked John & Lenny who turned out to be good men and he was harsh and short with Bill who without guidance and discipline is later revealed to have become a vicious gang leader. Hosea was able to steer Dutch away from disastrous decisions and allowed him to be his best self and apart from Arthur, nobody recognized just how important Hosea really was.

[@deadguydowntown]

DoogieBowser i think hosea used to be a fucking young reckless gunner who was turned soft(no offense) i kinda sound like that fat fuck bill.

[@kingtroy1005]

intro xiety imo I just think Hosea just got old and gained more wisdom and knows that outlaws are becoming extinct and it’s not really safe to fuck around like what Dutch was doing

[@trevorphilips9065]

@@kingtroy1005 Well after his wife Bessie died he pretty much started changing into the man we met

[@trevorphilips9065]

@Jaden Yeah but Dutch loved Hosea and I don't think the gang would jump Hosea if Dutch told them too

[@dasmole4804]

I like how Hosea just flat out laughed at Dutchs posturing

[@Baba-li6hc]

If only Uncle had the same respect and contribution as Hosea. After looking to his character he is actually a wise man with experiences and can clearly see through people.

[@DirtyFrigginHarry]

dutch the is the greatest conman in gaming. He fooled himself into believing all his own bullshit

[@demi8547]

Imagine how far the camp would go and how different it would be if Hosea was leader

[@herrbalrog4317]

Well he kind of used to be. You can read about it at some point in the game. In the beginning both lead the gang together, Hosea (being 11 years older) was to Dutch what Arthur was to Sean, but as he got older Dutch took over alone, Hosea accepting the role of chief advisor. It really makes one wonder if the good ol' days Dutch wants to return too, were only good because he took Hosea's advise to heart much more back then.

[@MausOfTheHouse]

@@herrbalrog4317 RDR3 should be about young Hosea.

[@Stonadyne]

It's like hosea is the angel on dutch's shoulder and micah's the devil

[@ked4]

Dutch probably started losing his mind when Annabelle died

[@obviousgreyman]

After playing through the game and going back to see these it’s crazy how insane Dutch was from the start.

[@planescaped]

It's like a cult. The leader was always crazy, you only notice it when the bad times come.

[@Kai_Jason_Lee]

I think I might want to replay RDR2

[@kvdjrplays7794]

Kai Jason Lee imma do it after the new update

[@yourenotthatguypal3483]

I’ve played the game at least five times over and I can’t stop lol

[@5398-x8y]

Kvd Jr what new update?

[@kpsa7108]

On my 4th playthrough. Still stumbling onto new things

[@shonthacreator6146]

They really need to add a new game+

[@blkplauge]

6:44 - look at Dutch's sketch...is that Mary-Beth?

[@cobaltcardsgaming5982]

Cripps in Online does a similar/identical sketch, so I think it’s more than likely just a generic journal page template (one of many) so that ambient characters aren’t looking at blank pages.

[@BooneHighItsTime]

You can overhear Molly getting jealous of Dutch flirting with Mary Beth so it would make complete sense

[@goncman]

blkplauge a lot of people back then wore their hair like the Dutch drew it. It can be a lot of people.

[@blkplauge]

@@BooneHighItsTime Right, that's why I originally questioned if it was her. I caught one of the times he was flirting with Mary-Beth, then the argument with Molly about it in Clement's Point in my first or 2nd playthrough. The woman could be anyone, but it would be a nice little touch if it was her. Lol

[@trevorphilips9065]

Might be Anabelle

[@horsenuggets1018]

With stuff happening like this you've got to wonder how the gang managed to survive for 22 years

[@ZaZi-Zeta01]

Gotta' remember one of their most common sayings - "It wasn't always like this."

[@maltron66]

6:14 Hosea was the only member of the gang who could tell Dutch to get his head straight. Not only that, but Dutch replying with "I'm trying, goddamnit!" is him pretty much admitting that he doesn't know what he's doing. No other gang member had this effect on Dutch.

[@AstroBladez74]

Most likely because they knew eachother the longest. Man I really wonder how Hosea would react to Dutch in chapter 6

[@strider1237]

@@AstroBladez74 Hosea would have been beyond furious and would definitely have called Dutch out. If it came to it, I also think he would have stood up to Dutch in the end. But, the important question. Would Dutch have lost himself completely the way he did if Hosea WAS still there. I don't think so. Not without some huge separation/rift in the gang. Although many players want to say the train crash that caused Dutch's head injury in St. Denis was another catalyst, it was the death of Hosea that was the final straw. It was Dutch literally losing that angel on his shoulder. Without Hosea only the devil was left in his ear.

[@Ayyybruhlmao]

I always looked at the gang like a business and Dutch was like and 80% owner Hosea was a 20% owner and Arthur was like a general manager

[@atelusyrujgnkj5535]

Jack knew it, Hosea knew it even uncle knew it but Arthur just couldn't seem to get it.... Until it was too late

[@luisma2548]

wdym jack? was there an interaction about jack and dutch that i missed or something?

[@Nobody-js2og]

@@luisma2548 any updates if there is?

[@lankylemon8555]

@@Nobody-js2og I think they meant John since his name is missing and Jack was just a little boy who saw Dutch as a nice uncle

[@JaxValentine]

But Arthur was the only one to do something. Everybody spoke their mind about it, no matter if they’re sure or not. But when Arthur saw it, he was sure. He was the first one who started taking actions, like saving John. When he went “I felt different.”, Dutch wasn’t expecting that, he never thought somebody would really go and take action. Sadie deserves credit too, she was the one who encouraged if not ‘forced’ Arthur into it. But he never felt the same way towards Dutch like anybody else in the camp. Arthur, Sadie and kinda Charles were the only ones who did the action, not John, not Bill, Javier not ever Hosea.

[@danieldaw1778]

Arthur saw it. He just didn't want to believe it. He starts questioning Dutch before the game even begins and a bunch of the early dialogue is him trying to communicate to Dutch he still has his back. He definitely saw it, he just didn't want to see it. And unlike John, he wasn't a first hand witness to Dutch's madness (i.e., John seeing Dutch gun down Heidi McCourt), so he had the luxury of denying it. John saw firsthand what happened at Black water, got left by Dutch in St Denis, and then was left to rot in the prison by Dutch, so he had way more actual experience of Dutch's bullshit.

[@someguyparagon5273]

Dutch: *You know me son...I'm just getting started* Also Dutch *WHO'S BETRAYING ME!!!* Even more Dutch *Falls down cliff*

[@HotaruZoku]

Dutch's VA deserves an award. He does something to his voice....says random words a fraction longer thsn you expect....he sounds threatening and unhinged, 24/7.

[@youssh4975]

no one: literally no one: Dutch: *YoU sOuNd DoUbTfUl*

[@Beeloverdover]

Also u could have said Dutch: *hAvE sOmE fAiTh*

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

5:37 Kinda funny how, later on in the game, Dutch actually springs the idea of heading to New York. Hosea was the only one smart enough to actually pretty accurately predict the consequences of their actions, like warning them about Blackwater and the Cornwall Robbery, both of which backfired heavily on them.

[@thedailybullshit4033]

Hosea: Who listens to me anymore? Me, w/ tears in my eyes: *I do.*

[@stanlytherobot4933]

2:10 Hosea chuckling at dutch, making dutch angrier. Hosea knew that dutch would come around eventually, but he didn't because of Micah.

[@gracek8657]

0:52 nobody’s gonna talk about Hosea’s little smile after Dutch said “for now..”

[@MichaelMedici61W2]

I love how at 2:11 Hosea is just laughing at him his whole way out!😂. I wonder if these conversations take place whether you’re near or in the room or not. What an amazing game this is. I’m almost at Johns part now of my 2nd play through and I just don’t want it to end. Thinking about playing RDR1 right after this.

[@boah1668]

Even before the game had started Hosea knew the end of the whole story because of Dutch's bad choices...

[@sauce6746]

5:59 HmMmMm.... are we sure Arthur didn't get Tuberculosis from Hosea?

[@5398-x8y]

High Off Sauce no it's *LUMBAGO*

[@bladenight23]

Hosea has asthma not tuberculosis

[@sauce6746]

@@bladenight23 So? people with Asthma dont just cough outta nowhere when they not even doin anythin

[@bladenight23]

High Off Sauce Yes they do. There is a form of asthma known as cough variant asthma. In addition to that, extreme weather conditions irritate asthma victims. Hosea even says this in a camp dialogue later in the game.

[@kazzng2087]

@@sauce6746 Do you have asthma my guy? Because there are a lot of things that can trigger it and I can personally tell you it does somtimes happen when you are 'doing nothing'.

[@Mellszx978]

Hosea: The wiseman, the one who always knew better. He was the man that most people looked up too because of his intelligence, humor & kindness. Dutch: *I have a plan*

[@Growmetheus]

Crazy that his “biggest doubter” was his best friend.

[@brockbuffalo5399]

Maybe things could’ve turned out different if Dutch had listened to Hosea. If they went west maybe they wouldn’t have been caught by the pinkertons and Dutch wouldn’t have turned on everyone and got so much people killed. If they moved west Arthur wouldn’t have gotten tuberculosis and John wouldn’t have been killed by the pinkertons in the first game. If they moved west they could’ve kept away from the pinkertons and lived freely.

[@sauce6746]

they didnt go west cuz it was too dangerous

[@brockbuffalo5399]

High Off Sauce certainly wasn’t more dangerous than heading east

[@sauce6746]

@@brockbuffalo5399 whatever it doesnt rlly matter now

[@brockbuffalo5399]

High Off Sauce it still does if they make a RDR3

[@sauce6746]

@@brockbuffalo5399 i guess u right if they do decide to make rdr3

[@trizty0473]

Hosea and Dutch:*trying to have a conversation* Arthur:*Breathes hehind backs*

[@TheGoldenGearRule]

I've seen a lot of people attribute Dutch's descent into madness on Micah's influence and that's a large part of it, but I think the guilt he feels about his actions during the Blackwater massacre and his fear of their consequences are a big motivator for Dutch. Especially in the early chapters. He loves to think he's a personification of the rejection of a changing culture and a noble thief but in reality he fears the hangman and regrets what happened on the ferry. He just can't admit it to himself.

[@cowboykiller0797]

Yes, Micah is just someone who encourages it.

[@marshalmarshall2109]

The thumbnail looks like the character introduction in a fighting game.

[@kirbyisdonewithyourbs2810]

Mom, Dad... Please stop fighting

[@Butcher369]

When Hosea died is when the gang took a turn for the worse and Dutch lost his Gah damn mind! Hosea would of went the way of the good way or even better yet Dutch wouldn’t of went nuts! Who knows but Hosea was right all along.

[@moodyowlproductions4287]

Yep

[@planescaped]

I think Dutch was snapping and likely would've ended up killing Hosea in a Bleda/Attila "let's go for a hunt" old friend "accident".

[@-lumbago-3102]

Hosea and Dutch look like a married couple when they’re arguing.

[@SirToaster9330]

It’s funny cause they both are married

[@qx_bn_1517]

@@SirToaster9330 fuck nah

[@willisnotgay]

Vandermatthews real 🤑🤑

[@nobody-yk2hu]

The curious couple and their adopted son

[@ShoopityDoopity]

“Good ol’ Dutch... my best friend.”

[@5398-x8y]

Nick Maxwell

[@noamias4897]

Arthur Morgan

[@qassemtelfah2569]

Do know how we met pair hucksters tried to rob each other back 78 or thereabouts

[@abgmuhdfarmeezulterminator8865]

You have to love yourself a fire..

[@Zip-id7pm]

@@abgmuhdfarmeezulterminator8865 it's one of the blessings

[@Marshenn]

These interactions just prove to me that Dutch never changed nor was he ever in control. Arthur was just too blinded by unconditional loyalty to see through it and only a life-altering incident (TB) opened his eyes. The shackles came off as soon as Hosea died and Dutch simply began to become more of who he truly was, not something else.

[@thgentleman9210]

Hosea the logical outlaw..

[@estellaruiz3125]

Dutch never became crazy. He was always crazy, Hosea just put a lid on it. Until the lid came off and the fire grew.

[@MrCheerio1st]

Good explanation

[@steddyhands]

I cant stop watching these videos of all the conversations. I missed so much in my first gameplay, I am in the epilogue now. But I noticed that hosea and John knew that dutch was not the same, both telling him to wake up after what happened in Blackwater. I miss hosea so much 😢

[@randomzzz5182]

Dutch: *spots Arthur* Hey you're the most practical one of us Me: who me I don't exist

[@MegadethTillDeth]

God how do I miss Arthur and Hosea so much. 😢 I've played video games since doom when I was 3 or 4, with my father's help. This game touched me like few things have.

[@legendgamer676]

Something I’ve noticed about Dutch is that I think the guy genuinely suffers from episodes of intense paranoia or some form of anxiety. As early as Chapter 2 you can be wandering around camp and as soon as you near Dutch he accuses you of stalking him. This also would explain why he had such a drastic shift in character after he is involved in the trolley crash. After the crash he complains that he’s seeing double and he’s obviously heavily concussed by the impact in the crash. I reckon that’d probably lead to brain damage, and that probably altered his personality so that his mood swings became worse and his most negative qualities came to the surface. Ergo this paranoia contributed to the collapse of the whole gang. But I don’t believe he’s 100% evil

[@reidleblanc3140]

a lot of people said he might have bipolar or something. swinging periods of delusions of grandeur and paranoia, but inconsistent enough that hosea stuck with him

[@legendgamer676]

@@reidleblanc3140yeah I definitely wouldnt be surprised if he had a personality disorder

[@felipeneves7260]

Seeing early Arthur talk, especially to Dutch, is so fascinating. He sais he is stupid, but thats not true, he has just been conditioned his entire life not to think, following and preaching every word that Dutch says. By the start of the game he is no different than Bill at the end

[@14112ido]

I like how when Kieran said how Dutch's gang is not actually that different from th O'Driscolls early on, John immediately took offense but you can clearly see how he had a hard time finding what differentiated them. His answers come off unconvincing and sound more like really weak justifications. Dutch really got the majority of the gang brainwashed and it took one outsider to see through all the BS.

[@nab_tm]

1:14 he predicted the future. After robbing Cornwalls train, Cornwall hired the Pinkertons to track down the Van Der Linde gang. If they didn’t rob the train the Pinkertons would’ve never tracked them down. Instead of laying low they made noise. It’s so sad to see how the gang broke apart and how everyone started dying. If Micah never joined, they would’ve been in Tahiti. So sad to see Dutch go down the evil path.

[@grinch75r29]

Did I just loved every last sound in this game light everything from the Chrispy leaves to the crackling of the fire and the dirt under your boots

[@Satellite_Of_Love]

The screams of the strangers that you blew up with dynamite The slurred ramblings of the loudmouth drunk in the Smithfield Saloon The shrill harping of Susan Grimshaw telling everyone to QUIT THEIR LOLLYGAGGIN'! The crash of the controller as you throw it at the TV/PC when you hear for the 8 bazillion "HAS ANYONE SEEN AN ENGLISHMAN NAMED GAVIN?!"

[@MinusTechTips]

5:37 he predicted chapter 6 dutch

[@Hecx000]

New york by Christmas eh? Well Merry Christmass hosea in december

[@OneofInfinity.]

So easy to miss, specially during the first play-through when still processing the living world around you in amazement.

[@lufsolitaire5351]

Always kind of tragic that Hosea also didn’t have that much time left as well, but instead of these grand, abstract master plans Dutch had he spent it getting the house in order and spending time with everyone, even teaching Jack to read. Arthur took up the mantle to insure everyone of consequence was taken care of. The real father of the gang.

[@BasedChad]

5:55 you think Hosea had tb as well cuz of the way he's coughing , there's a clear parallel here, when Arthur had tb he said he's fine too just like that

[@nicolaslahky3319]

Hosea had asthma

[@daddy6922]

He smokes too much lung disease

[@Joe-ve9xz]

“In every persons mind there is an eternal struggle, two wolves always at each others throats trying to get the best of the other, one of good intent and the other of evil, and if you wonder which wolf is going to win, it’s the one you feed”.

[@FeIine_D]

Dutch and Arthur's relationship dwindling towards the epilogue is like a parents relationship to their kids, at first, they will follow you to the end, then they grow and develop an understanding for the life they want and go achieve that life whether the parent wants it or not.

[@kirikakirikakirika]

Poor Hosea keeps grabbing his chest in Colter and you can tell he's in pain, but Dutch just keeps yelling at him...

[@MWelind0]

I played through the game and got my fair share of character/camp interactions, but watching these videos now it seems what I got wasn't even 1/10th of what all interactions there were in the game. It's interesting because when I was playing, based on what I saw it felt like things with the gang were relatively alright (particularly with Dutch) up until the later part of the game after certain events, but it seems with all these interactions that even as far back as the prologue in Colter, there were seeds of disaster and Dutch losing it.

[@user-oh5gm9ry7o]

"At this rate, we'll be in New York by Christmas!" "I can't think of anything worse."

[@redythelegend2]

0:22 "You sound doubtful" Even from the "start" Dutch had issues with anyone who didn't just do as he says and had any other opinion that his. Also he got pretty angry when someone talked about blackwater money.

[@CandleWisp]

I don't think it's as simple as that. Doubt is a danger to a leader. If people don't think you're good enough to lead, they won't follow you. That doubt can cause the gang to fall apart. So Dutch needs to at least appear in control. Or else morale falls. Nonetheless, Dutch at the end no longer served the wellbeing of the gang. He was past being worthy of it.

[@oak1403]

I like how all the characters keep one holster uncovered when they're wearing a jacket but when Hosea wears one he doesn't, like he's learnt to keep his guns holstered in all his wisdom.

[@volcaronaa]

i feel like during the game if you don’t pay attention at camp dutch going crazy feels more like a change in her personality, but if you pay attention you see the cracks from chapter 1 and realize he was always like that

[@JackieRenful]

I felt Dutch was already delusional at the beginning l, and he finally find his true self.

[@thegaspoweredjohnnyjohn3972]

2:07 Hosea’s little laugh is glorious

[@greedgod5827]

I never stayed around in chapter 1 long enough to hear all the conversations

[@mullemeck5015]

05:37 Hosea: We’ll be at New York by christmas at this rate. Dutch in chapter 6: WE ARE GOING TO NEW YORK ORTHOR!

[@jft2nd]

I feel like him bumping his head on the ferry mission with Lenny made his descent into madness come faster.

[@dylanreynolds7343]

Arthur: oh I couldn’t think of anything worse Tuberculosis, half the gang dying and the rest splitting up: