When Should You Set Up The Friction Zone?

Quinn Redeker provides a details on when and under what conditions you should have your friction zone set when you ride your motorcycle in slow-speed situations #motorcyclerodeo #gopro12 #bmwmotorrad #harleydavidson #goprohero11black #motorcycleskills #motorcycletraining #policemotorcyclerodeo #totalcontrol #drone #motorcycle #motorcyclelife

[@MCAdventurerHD131]

You made us wait a month!! Great video, sir. In my quest to always be better, it pays to watch the best riders. Thank you for making me better!

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Hey man, I appreciate the compliment! I plan to update some other foundational videos I've made in the past, so stay tuned for some better coverage!

[@shaspaz]

Love the “ walk through “ so helpful As a Retired equestrian All our best trainers had us do walk throughs first.. when learning specific skills

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

It’s funny, my sister is rooted in equestrian training and competition, and we speak much the same language in so many different situations. I often tell people to watch the way professional horseback riders maintain perfect balance on the horse- it’s NOT by holding on to rigid and fixed handles in front of them!

[@shaspaz]

Oh yes if ya grab especially the wrong horse.. they “ off” to the races

[@dasrotrad]

Thank you Quinn. There is so much going on; so many variables it is really hard to grasp these fundamentals where a beginner can apply them. It is really great that you take the time to break these elements down in component parts.

[@BluAlualu]

Awesome information thanks!

[@soujrnr]

Hi Quinn. Another fantastic lesson, sir! I have more ammunition to bring to my practice sessions now. I hadn't heard the idea of setting up the friction zone and throttle before adding lean angle. Of course, it makes perfect sense, and then it's just a matter of a little fine-tuning of the clutch for the turn, if needed. As I reflect on how I was doing it, I'd be fiddling with the throttle and friction zone after starting my tip-in. No wonder I looked like I was having a seizure when trying U-turns. I could do them wonderfully on my old cruiser, but the new Gold Wing is kicking my butt. However, thanks to your awesome videos, I've been able to identify key areas of weakness that I've somehow developed in switching platforms. Thanks again for all you do!!

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Hey that's fantastic to hear. I appreciate your feedback and support, very nice to hear these videos are helpful for you!

[@soujrnr]

@@PoliceMotorTraining Hi Quinn. Just wanted to give an update. I've been doing some "parking lot time" on my new Wing working on setting up the friction zone before turns and U-turns. Since identifying that my problem was fiddling after the tip-in and making subsequent changes to that practice, I have noticed a fantastic improvement in my U-turns. I still can't wrap my head around why I could do them so flawlessly on my cruiser, but suck so bad on the Goldwing, but it is what it is. I think it's just getting used to the 1st gear torque of the Wing. It's insane. This one tip has helped tremendously!! Thanks again for your sage advice and training tips!

[@karenshoucairmcgray4902]

Hmmmmm! I will give this a try and see how my bike likes it! I try to keep her between 1300-1800 (she really likes 2000) rpm and am in the friction zone before I make a u turn and being light on the rear brake. Thank you! 😊

[@krisswolf2011]

On my 400cc sportsbike, 1st gear idles at ~4 mph. Does that mean I dont need the friction zone? For low speed parking lot exercises, I find myself using a bit pf throttle with fully out clutch and no brake at ~7mph

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

It depends on what you want to accomplish. If you want to master slow speed maneuvers in confined spaces, you will eventually want to explore this technique. If that’s not a big priority, and you find yourself in tight situations on rare occasions, you should probably be OK with a 400 cc sport bike given Its size and weight is minimal. I think many motorcyclists have lived a lifetime without ever learning this style of riding, so clearly you can get by without it. But if you have it in your bag of tricks, I think you would find yourself utilizing it regularly every time you swung a leg over the bike.

[@barkinsahin]

Thank you for this great tutorial video. A question: at your demo speed it seems to me that this u turn could be made without engaging the clutch at all..? Using probably some rear break to get rid off the unwanted speed and leaning the bike towards the turn seem doable...? Maybe at a relatively higher speed... what would be your view on this? Regards.

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Appreciate the kind words- To your question: YES, a simple U-turn could, generally, be done without setting up the friction zone as I demonstrate in the video. The purpose and benefit of this technique only begins to reveal itself as speeds slow, lean angles increase, and the rider finds himself/herself in multiple-turn situations or ones where the surface is not predictable. In other words, NOT just U-turns, but combinations of slow turning maneuvers. If you have a small, light bike or simply do not do police-style riding, the juice here might not be worth the squeeze... Because much of my instruction and demonstration stems from a law-enforcement foundation, the friction zone techniques are foundational and necessary; big heavy bikes getting thrown around at slow speeds within very tight spaces. In this video, I isolated my lesson utilizing a U-turn for simplicity of articulating the technique and helping riders train the technique in a simple repeatable manner. But the application of such a technique will find itself useful in much higher performing environments.

[@coplock6689]

It looked like you were also on the front brake??? In the BRC they teach to be on the rear brake, not the front. They say never be on the front brake with the handle bars turned??? Can you give me your thoughts on this?

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Yes, I AM on the front brake into the turning portion of the pattern. This technique is essentially trail braking, however due to the bigger bikes and slower speeds, and full-lock steering inputs, it has some additional benefits (and risks). Without going too far down the rabbit hole on the front brake aspect of this video, I will say that for the purposes of a new rider learning basic motorcycle handling (BRC), staying off the front brake (and dragging a little rear brake) when generating a turning movement under lean angle is great advice. The front brake has a wide range of responses depending on what you are doing-some great, some not so great, and a new rider won't be skilled enough to safely figure them out without a high probability of getting into trouble. It's like your parents told you when you were a kid...Keep away from the electrical outlets! Great advice for a 2 year old, but at some point you grow up, and need to plug in that sweet waffle iron you brought to summer camp. Now the electrical outlet is your friend. Watch the below video for additional info on my use of the front brake: kzbin.info/www/bejne/apiyioeje69goac

[@AutechB12]

Thank you for this teaching. Can you explain this from a sprint into a U turn where someone would have to slow down and gear down?

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Sure- So your scenario indicates I'm coming into a U-turn from 2nd or 3rd gear-pretty damn fast into this U-turn (remember, MOST police motor training/competition is 1st gear, so this situation is not common and typically I'd just set up the clutch from 1st-no downshifting). So the additional speed means a few things: 1) I will be getting to my turn point much faster than a 1st gear example, and 2) I will need to deal with downshifting before I execute the turning movement. So limited time, and an additional task here. Simple "order of operations" dictates we handle the downshifting first (I do NOT use MX-style banging down through the gears due to it usually causing a rear wheel slide/drift until the bike slows enough to get the back tire hooked up again-IF my BMW has "shift assist" then I CAN use this technique because it electronically handles the shifting seamlessly, like paddle shifters on a car). I will handle the downshifts at the SAME time I'm hard on brakes (we don't have tons of time before we turn in), with the bike still in a more upright position, careful to match throttle RPM's during downshifts so traction is maintained. Once I'm clicked into 1st gear, still on brakes hard, I will set up the friction zone. Keep in mind we should still be a fair distance from the U-turn point, with the bike still oriented more up and down (not dropped into the turn yet). So at this point, it will be exactly the same scenario as a regular 1st gear spot... Our goal is to handle as much stuff BEFORE the turn point as we can. Efficiency is key, so we DON"T want to have any downshifting or hunting for stable friction zone once the bike is slowed, and gravity is starting to take over as we lean in. I would practice this in a parking lot to get comfortable with the coordination and timing required to make this smooth. Then you can utilize it on the street, where it will generate a stability and comfort like nothing you've ever experienced! Any questions, or if this doesn't make sense just let me know and we can jump on a phone call and clear it up!

[@AutechB12]

@@PoliceMotorTraining thanks for the awesome reply!!! I ride a 150cc hence the question. I always have to down shift lol I absolutely love the content and have learnt so much. Stay awesome my guy. Thanks for keeping us educated and inspired

[@NoVaSlowSpeed]

Great video Quinn!

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Thanks buddy👍

[@miffylin9939]

Is it possible that I keep at the friction zone without applying any throttle when Im moving around in tight parking lots? or I would have to apply some throttle from time to time in order to avoid stalling? I’m having the exact issue of going too fast in first gear on a big bike 🙈Your reply would be greatly appreciated!

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

@@miffylin9939 while I do manipulate the throttle a small amount from time to time while I’m in the friction zone, I generally keep the RPMs at a rate that allow me to manipulate the clutch without risk of stalling the bike. In other words, if I keep the RPMs between 1500 and 2000 RPM, that should successfully get me through any tight cone patterns using the clutch alone. If you are carrying too much momentum, you need to keep working on dexterity and consistency with the clutch. generally your range of motion is too great while manipulating it and it’s causing the bike to start to run away from you. If you try to fix the problem, simply by shutting off the throttle, you will risk stalling. Set up some tight in line cone weave, and get through at a nice slow rate straight up and down and don’t allow yourself to use any rear brake or play with throttle- set it 1500-2000. Then, as soon as you let the clutch out too much, the bike will carry too much speed and blow out of the pattern. This is a good indicator that your range of motion needs to be more precise on clutch. It takes some practice, but you will get it and then you will have it forever.

[@miffylin9939]

@@PoliceMotorTrainingThanks for your prompt reply! I have just tried to ride in slow speed by controlling the clutch itself around 5 mph, without using the throttle, whenever i felt the engine start shaking I slightly pull back the clutch to prevent stalling, and keep doing it back and forth between the friction zone, at this point I’m controlling the speed by using only the clutch and rear brake, as sometime when I try to add a little bit throttle, the speed is not ideal for me, after 15 mins of practicing my left hand felt extremely tired as I try hard to holding and controlling the clutch at the same time😂 Do you think that I’m doing it correctly or it would be easier if I could keep the throttle steady all the way as you mentioned?

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

@@miffylin9939 if the bike is shaking like it’s going to stall every time you let the clutch out a bit overall RPMs are really too low. Put them at a nice steady hum so the bike won’t stall, and work on clutch friction to modulate your momentum👍

[@rayweeks1056]

Excellent video….!!!

[@ItsBeenDanBefore]

Absolutely loving the videos and especially loving the coaching method, very similar to how I coach my trainees whilst I provide advanced training in the UK (a lot of inspiration from UK police riding methodology and using the book Police Motorcycle Roadcraft, a recommended read). I was just wondering if you're to provide recommendations for the mics you use both off and on bike? Any help would be highly appreciated!

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Hey brother thanks for the kind words and support! It's greatly appreciated, seriously. As for recording tools, I have a few things (nothing I love at this point...) I have a simple digital recorder with wired mic that I stick inside the helmet while the recorder is on my belt loop- This gives solid audio no matter what the video source (drone, Go Pro, fixed DJI camera, etc.) however it requires time-consuming editing, as the audio is not synced to the video of any device. If you have multiple recording devices for a given video, not much you can do here. But on these little "3-min motor training" videos, I simply run a Go Pro hero 12 Black, and because it has Bluetooth capability, I can use a wireless mic (SabineTek wireless mic) and all camera audio runs through the mic. (*IF you play back the audio prior to running it into editing software, for some reason it doesn't provide the wireless mic recorded audio-so you THINK you didn't actually get the audio sorted. But then you edit the video and the wireless audio is now what plays back...No idea WHY, probably user-error). But this wireless mic eliminates the audio/video sync challenges, which is nice. I run a "dead cat" on all my mics since i'm outside and rolling around in the wind. I've played around with 360 cameras but I didn't like the editing challenges...Again operator error, but the Hero 12 with the Max Lens 2.0 worked better for me and way easier to manage. Hope this helps a little bit, I am a work in progress on this front and will continue to get better!

[@ItsBeenDanBefore]

@@PoliceMotorTraining That is a MUCH more detailed response than I anticipated, thank you a lot for that! I definitely believe that audio is probably a much more difficult thing to get right. I would like to get into doing KZbin again but it was always difficult to achieve consistent audio, even without adjusting anything. My setup only really consisted of a PurplePanda lavalier mic plugged directly into a GoPro. I have seen some people having success with the new DJI wireless mic setup. Expensive but if you do YT as part of a job or as a passion project, might be more worthwhile

[@gravyau]

Great thanks Quinn.

[@4b11t9]

Are you on the rear brakes as well?

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

@@4b11t9 you can be on the rear brake but you don’t have to be, so sometimes I am and sometimes I’m not it just depends on what I’m working on. I will say, I use quite a bit less rear brake than most people when I DO, because I use a lot of front brake/trailing brakes. More importantly, this technique really has nothing to do with rear brake as far as it’s effectiveness, so if you want to, or don’t want to use the rear brake, this shouldn’t affect your decision one way or the other.👍

[@dry509]

What year is your bike and have you had any final drive problems? How do you maintain the final drive?

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

My motorcycle is a 2023 model with only a few thousand miles on it. But in my experience of riding and competing on this model of motorcycle over the last 15 years I would say the final drives are not an issue. Just simply service them with an oil change when your manual advises to do so, and expect tens of thousands of trouble free miles.

[@dry509]

@@PoliceMotorTraining Awesome, thanks for letting me know.

[@yagomee]

와!!! 이 형님 아주 오래전부터 지켜봤는데 유투브 채널을 만드셨군요!!! 좋아요!! 머나먼 한국에서 응원합니다!!!

[@sudonimh6185]

In the second handlebar shot it looks like the act of "setting up the friction zone" doesn't mean pulling back from fully open/engaged to friction zone, it looks like a quick pull to closed/disengaged clutch and easing (quickly!) into the friction zone. It goes by fast but you can see the engaged-disengaged-friction zone pattern, rather than just pulling the handle back to the zone. Thank you for this angle! Very reassuring. Love your content and articles in Rider magazine, super helpful.

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Hey thanks for the support!

[@jackk1583]

Luv your matter of fact explanations/ and practical demos. No fluff- just the facts. I get a lot from your vids, and more importantly, put the tips into motion thru practice. Btw/ do u sponsor Moto jeans?

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Hey man, I appreciate that immensely. And I must say the more videos I watch the more frustrated I get because there’s so much damn fluff and waste of time and little Clickbait crap I have to sift through to actually get the message. Hate that. I definitely won’t purposely waste anybody’s time ha ha.👍

[@richardclarke8117]

Nice video Quinn. I saw a video you did awhile back on the Lee Parks gloves. Tried buying one but had some issues. I’m in Canada, do they ship to Canada or this was just a one off issue. And yes I tried making contact but no response. Would appreciate you letting me know if they do in fact ship to Canada. Thanks much

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Yes they do, and we have a Canadian distributor-Motorcycle Innovations, owner is Matt. Give them a shot

[@davidfalkenstein7151]

Quinn, have you thought about franchising your approach? I run a school in NH and would love to employ your brand on this.

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

David- Thank you, I have a few things in the works related to a field training booklet, with specific "Quinn Redeker" aspects, however I'm always up for a discussion to hear somebody's ideas. Feel free to reach out for a conversation, my contact info is on my website www.policemotortraining.com

[@althepal6818]

Your videos are getting technically better and better! I'm sure everyone knows that you are braking at one point, but it is never mentionned. Also, my instructor would squeeze my fingers if he ever saw me using less than 4... Is it a competition thing or you would recommend that on a formal training?

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words- As for the braking component, yes, I overlap the controls and I originally planned to address this, but in the end I felt it was a discussion for another video. As for 4 fingers VS 1 finger, the answer is based on the bike and the situation. If I have a strong braking system, which my BMW has (I can lift the back of the bike up off the ground with 1 finger) then I am better off with less fingers, as I gain more purchase on the bars and I have more range of motion over the brake lever when I cover it and transition from off/on throttle. If you do NOT overlap controls, or have a less powerful braking system (I race vintage bikes with drum brakes and use 2 fingers) then power is job #1.

[@billcarson1966]

I'm freezing my buns off with 20 degree temps and 3 inches of snow and you're in a T-shirt in the beautiful sunshine. Ohhhhh, the four letter words floating through my mind right now.... LOL All kidding aside, wow! Another succinct and brilliant video. Basically, use that friction zone to "power through" your maneuvers.

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Hey I’m in VA as I type this and it’s 28 and snowing so I feel you! And Yes, set the friction zone up and have it in motion before you need it 👍Let me know how it goes when you’re on the bike!

[@billcarson1966]

@@PoliceMotorTraining I typically do the same for come work but for casually street maneuvers I've been experimenting with "gliding" more lately. I try as much as possible not to use the rear brake at all. Less wear and tear but it also challenges me more. Just me goofing and having fun. Virginia? Brrr! I've got about 8 more weeks then I'm back teaching the MSF BRC course at 6am in 20s/30s temps! Ughhhh. Gotta move south!

[@jasonzandy7923]

Great video! I have a 2021 Road King, I use rear brake only when needed, I was taught that way as well, it works for me. I'm a sponge so my question after noticing you using the front is what is your opinion on front vs rear brake and is different depending on the bike you're riding? Thank you!

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Thanks Jason- Light rear brake definitely helps stabilize the bike for slow speed turning movements, so I use it (it IS a crutch of sorts and NO brakes are better for training good clutch/throttle control). The front brake helps on lots of other fronts: slowing, loading the front, changing steering geometry into the corner, lighter steering into full lock…So I use that everywhere. BUT it’s a bit more complicated so I don’t discuss in this video as to not make people feel it’s necessary to benefit from this video that provides guidance on when we want to set up clutch/throttle. If you want to learn this, I have a video on overlapping controls which is helpful in working out that technique. I will be updating it in the next month or so as well, so either way we can get you sorted 👍

[@jasonzandy7923]

@@PoliceMotorTraining very well said and easily understood, thank you!!

[@iamlarsdahl]

On my K1600 I use the rear(linked) brake to reduce the speed in idle 1st gear from 10 mph to 5 mph. This has the added benefit that the front suspension is compressed, which again makes the turning radius a lilltle smaller. But I don't think the boxer will accept this the same way as the 6-cylinder 🙂

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Both the K models and the RT models have similar brake systems and front suspension systems. They are both Tele-lever suspension and linked brakes. That means there is less dive on the front end to generate the steering geometry We are looking for, compared to traditional forks and rear brake application does not interfere with front brake actuation in any way, which is great. In other words, outside of the power characteristics and general weight and wheelbase numbers, the overall behavior should be similar.

[@iamlarsdahl]

I was thinking more in regards to the boxermotor probably will stall sooner when being 'held back' as compared to the 6-cyl. And that is something you don't want to see when doing the tightest turn possible. Also, this discipline needs a lot of practice, so you are able to keep a steady pressure on the brake pedal while at the same time shifting from side to side.

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Oh, OK I understand your point. That might be accurate, I’m not sure, but in either case, I wouldn’t want to take such big heavy bikes and dance so close to the low RPM range while also adding any slow speed lean angle without having the friction zone set up. Personally, I feel I would be asking for trouble in that situation, which is where this technique really benefits people because we set that up before speeds drop considerably and lean angle and gravity kick in. Of course, if you are simply slowing down to a still-manageable speed and not really executing any tight maneuver that requires bike drop, then you should be fine with just light rear brake dragging👍

[@Matt-vo1ge]

Does being in the friction zone damage the clutch?

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

Not all by itself it wont, but definitely you CAN smoke the clutch by slipping it for long periods at high RPM. Once you learn this technique it's pretty easy on the clutch, especially considering we are not "living" in the friction zone, but only momentarily slipping the clutch during the portions of slow speed lean angle we encounter where speeds drop.

[@Matt-vo1ge]

@PoliceMotorTraining thanks for clarifying. Appreciated.

[@RollModel724]

are you letting out the clutch to give incrementally more power in the U turn? It seems as if you shim power before the turn but it wouldn’t it want to fall over without adding a bit of power

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

I’m not sure I fully understand your question? I am positioning the clutch so that it is in the friction zone prior to the motorcycle leaning over and dropping into the U-turn. In order to have the clutch in the friction zone, I must also set the throttle so that it is humming at a decent RPM. This is a traditional law enforcement motor technique taught at academies around the country. This video simply establishes a philosophy for the motorcyclist to adopt, so they ensure the friction zone technique is in place and executed before the bike has any lean angle. If I missed your question, please reach out to me directly, and we can discuss in greater length.👍

[@RollModel724]

Are you setting the friction zone and keeping it static or are you riding it adjusting power

[@PoliceMotorTraining]

@@RollModel724 Ahh OK- So the short answer is that it varies, because in some cases I will have the friction zone set with the perfect amount of power to the rear wheel for the given speed and radius I execute, so then NO, its static "set it and forget it." But in other situations, like misjudging the camber, or my rate of drop-in, these might call for MORE power to the rear wheel to keep everything steady, so I would let the clutch out a bit and match throttle accordingly. When I am competing, I am slowly adding power and throttle from the apex on through the turn, so in this scenario It's not static but steady growth of power and clutch engagement. In this video demonstration however, its all static; It's smooth, steady drop and apex, with steady throttle and friction zone until the bike is upright and headed back in the other direction.