Polyend Tracker v. Dirtywave M8 - Which is the best?!

[@Polyend]

Interesting comparison, thank you for making it!

[@StephenMcLeod]

I always ask the big questions!

[@2.7petabytes]

I bought the Polyend Tracker and absolutely love it!

[@russellwoodstechno]

this is dope. good form, Polyend.

[@spectralknights2]

Pls add an FM synth in polyend tracker

[@HiLoMusic]

please add more synthesis options into your tracker, it'll make it amazing

[@harvestgoon5291]

I've used and love both of these devices, and I came to a lot of the same conclusions you did. Thanks for making this video, I think it's really accurate.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks very much. Great minds think alike! Or something.

[@KelmoMusic]

Thanks for doing this, I still want both!

[@StephenMcLeod]

There's only one answer...

[@BCThunderthud]

I bought both but I'm not sure I'll ever get used to the M8. I messed with LSDJ a bit over the years, but I've had trouble finding a reliable enough cart to use it so I never developed the muscle memory. Plus, while I think the tracker is really interesting I don't love the Gameboy sound. So as someone with way more PC tracker experience it's hard not to fall in love with how perfect a realization of that software into hardware the Polyend Tracker is. And as a product, the fact they can sell it for nearly the same price as the M8, for half what that SP1200 knockoff sells for, it's very impressive. And I guess the M8 is similar for LSDJ users, he's maintained the cool elements of that software and made the ultimate version of it, with the form factor that those vets appreciate. It's kind of too bad that the market isn't big enough to manufacture it at scale, but it's awesome that you can just run it on your own Teensy.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Yeah, a lot of it will come down to what your preferred workflow is, so if you don't like the LSDJ style, the M8 is definitely not for you! It doesn't solely give you the Game Boy style wave synthesis though - that's just a nice added bonus if you want it.

[@RaverOperatorGeeza]

My OldBoy! (Free) Gameboy emulator for smartphone and an LSDJ ROM, problem solved.

[@59Perlen]

Thanks for the video, great quality content !

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks for watching!

[@derangedsynthesizer7598]

Well spoken comparison! This is the first time I've watched a review on gear where mostly everything covered was described without much visuals. But the way you explain everything kept my attention and was highly useful in helping me get my head around this stuff! New subscriber here :)

[@StephenMcLeod]

Awesome, thanks for the kind words!

[@IndieAuthorX]

I actually like that the Polyend Tracker doesn't have a battery, because I tend to go from one temperature extreme to another and lithium batteries do not last. I don't want my device's lifespan to be connected to the lifespan of its battery and I don't want to be sending my device in for a replacement battery every five or six years.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Good point! The battery in the M8 is apparently very easy to replace if need be, which is reassuring.

[@Alex-qc6wk]

Yep, that's a big consideration for me too. The amount of times I find myself without access to power when I want to use a device is really not worth the risk of having a device bricked because of the battery.

[@rorz999]

Same - no battery keeps cost down, makes for a smaller/lighter unit, and means you can use a powerbank which can easily be replaced

[@Lurkartiist]

I agree. even though every 5-6 years is a long ass time I wouldn't be too pressed

[@Metamerist625]

Agreed and it's not that bad to carry around a portable power bank these days anyway.

[@RaverOperatorGeeza]

The M8 tracker was already great, but recently had a really huge update and includes a new synth, and new functionality and extra table!

[@StephenMcLeod]

Amen. The hypersynth is epic!

[@ellopropello]

now, if only it would be in production

[@theheresiarch3740]

Too bad you can't buy them anywhere unless you want to fork over $2k to a scalper...

[@MrKjDrake]

@@theheresiarch3740I got mine for $650 used on Reverb. But yeah. I see the current prices are around $1k with one at $2k on EBay that’s been there forever.

[@mrclaytron]

I love all the videos you’ve done so far for the M8 - you’ve pretty much sold it to me haha. Now I just gotta somehow get one - they seem to sell out very quickly with each batch! Keep up the videos, I’m a big fan!

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks a lot for watching! The M8 is great. There are more going up tomorrow (Monday) at 7am PDT, but they sell out very quickly, so be sharp!

[@mrclaytron]

Thanks for the tip man - I’m in Australia, and that translates to 1am on Tuesday! But hell, it’s gotta be worth it! I’ll set an alarm. I feel like a kid who’s dying to get a new toy! I got GAS real bad for this!!

[@StephenMcLeod]

@@mrclaytron It might be worth double checking that to be sure, as daylights savings might have messed things up. Either way, make sure you are registered on the site and logged in for the time if you want one, as otherwise you'll lose time registering!

[@StephenMcLeod]

PST now not PDT!

[@mrclaytron]

@@StephenMcLeod thanks man. Wish me luck!

[@LlewynDaviesTheThird]

a much needed comparison thanks !! One of my favourite aspects of the Polyend Tracker is the Granular Synthesis engine. It's basic, but surprisingly powerful. M8 looks very interesting though. An FM synth in that form factor is intriguiing

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hell yeah. Thanks for watching! I need to dive more into the granular synth engine on the PE.

[@bangsjamin]

The sampler on the m8 is also capable of doing some granular type stuff. Not sure how it compares to the PE though

[@dutoduto4564]

I second needing to dig into the granular playback option

[@dillipphunbar7924]

Well done. Down-to-earth chat, and nice little demo.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks a lot! I hope you noticed my beautifully smooth gimbal shots too...

[@2.7petabytes]

Great review of both of these units! Glad I ran across your channel

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks so much for watching! :D

[@tobillusion]

nice comparison! I have the tracker and my biggest 2 pros are, the display and ergonomics and cons, the limited sample ram and no stereo recording. I also use it mainly to make songs with all my hardware gear. If the display and ergos are important to you I think the tracker is right. If you want better portability with more functions i guess the M8 would suite better. Keep tracking!

[@StephenMcLeod]

All trackers can exist together. Hand in hand. Track the world!

[@RaverOperatorGeeza]

Enjoyed this video a couple of months back, back again for a listen again. Hello!

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hello! Thanks for spinning back around :)

[@RaverOperatorGeeza]

@@StephenMcLeod 33 rpm is slow but steady!

[@SonicVibe]

Thank you for making this and you answered my questions

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks for watching!

[@finlaymcandrewgordongordon7322]

super helpful video (although I'm late). Appreciate the comparison and the genuinely informed and honest comments!

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks for watching!

[@julienchrist]

Great video, love your way to explain and love your channel ! ♥️

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks a lot Julien!

[@Digiphex]

Just realizing all I could do with M8. Your tutorials are the best and with a high degree of intelligence.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hey, thanks for the very kind words! I love the M8.

[@awesomeduder]

isn't it great that we now have access to somewhat niche devices like both of these and aren't stuck with x0x 16-step loops or the dreaded piano roll!

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hell yeah. What a time to be alive.

[@binarysun_]

Thanks for the comparison. I am still on the verge of preordering a M8 because I like the concept. I also have the Tracker though. The only thing I miss on it is individual outs for each track. Because for me it is just one of the composing tools that I use and having individual outs would make work so much easier for me. I hope there will be an mk2 that features individual outs

[@StephenMcLeod]

I doubt there will be a mk 2 with individual outs in all honesty! I do love individual outs, but I like the stem export - that mitigates it somewhat :)

[@michaels5166]

It's a matter of what one NEEDS and can use all the time..The Tracker works for me,because I have 4 other samplers,so each one has their own workflow and set of features...good video...

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks!

[@kenniferlopez1]

I fucking love my Polyend! I am going to get a silver one this week but now I am gonna get a M8 too just for my commute.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Nice!!

[@MathHammer]

I have checked Dirtywave's web shop the last couple of Friday mornings, but I forgot both times until I was on the couch with my dogs and coffee closer to 7:30 AM (PST). If there were any for sale at 7 AM they were sold out by then. I only get a few radio stations on my Polyend Tracker in our area which has a lot of hills and mountains, but one of them is a Bollywood station that is pure sampling gold. The built-in FM radio provided a strong pull for me.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hey, they go on sale on Mondays, not Fridays! Make sure to check then. They sell out within just a few minutes.

[@russellwoodstechno]

thank you so much for these videos. i've gotten into OpenMPT and love working in a tracker.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Nice one! I am glad they have been of some use :)

[@el_dani]

Thanks for the elaborate comparison! It doesn‘t make it easier to say no to the M8 and the video won‘t help the present hardware shortage neither but the more interest the more success (and maybe 2nd hand devices) - maybe I‘ll just learn the in- and outs if my current devices..

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks Bibi! Haha that is what I always say...

[@IndieAuthorX]

I mostly sequence my Eurorack with the Tracker and it mostly works amazing.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Agreed!

[@lovesteersthestars]

Managed to snag the M8 last night. Can’t wait for the damn thing to arrive.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Nice one! I hope you love it. I am sure you will.

[@reallivebluescat]

Has it arrived yet?

[@jjurksztowicz]

I've come to the point where I'm selling my polyend tracker and keeping my m8. It's not that the PE is bad mind you, it's really good, like 9 out of 10, it's just that the m8 is a true masterpiece, like 11 out of 10, way above anything else on the market. If you are buying the PE you won't regret it, it's a great piece of gear, but the m8 is pure genius.

[@StephenMcLeod]

I understand this! The M8 is superb.

[@danqfrank44]

Why do you say that as someone who has never used either of them?

[@jjurksztowicz]

​@@danqfrank44 Both are fun tracker experiences, but M8 has more power, a more streamlined interface, better MIDI interoperability, more options for generative programming, and an attention to detail that is hard to explain. Oh, and M8 tables are a bit hard to learn but incredibly powerful once you understand them. To be fair I think the Polyend is easier to get started with, but as I have climbed the learning curve of the M8 it just blows me away time and time again, it's just sublime. One other thing the Polyend has over the M8 is the live mode, it's really powerful on the Polyend.

[@danqfrank44]

@@jjurksztowicz that's really interesting. I've only used drum machine and have not had a tracker experience yet. I hope to get one for a portable tactile daw experience.

[@jjurksztowicz]

@@danqfrank44 Both Polyend and M8 are good experiences. The M8 is more portable although I used the PE with a USB battery bank just fine. There is no wrong answer here, although I'm obviously in love with the M8 :D What both trackers did for me was take my music making from loops to full tracks with key changes, breakdowns, buildups, etc. Good luck!

[@tubeMonger]

Yeah... on a tracker you can see the parameter values (trigs in Elektron devices or parameter locks in Deluge) easily. Makes it easier to see what's going on in the patterns at one glance.

[@canispeaktodave]

Thanks, you convinced me to buy a dirtywave! (Which is good as I ordered it drunk last week 😂)

[@StephenMcLeod]

Drunk ordering is the best ordering.

[@jimsomniac6587]

Both. I want BOTH!

[@StephenMcLeod]

The ideal solution!

[@anthonyrothercom]

thanks

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thank *you*

[@voxmnemonic]

Great content as always man!

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks for watching!!

[@jimmac]

I’m a mad person and believe there’s going to be a lot of people who have or want BOTH! :)

[@StephenMcLeod]

a little bit of madness goes a long way!

[@MrPisster]

"The shit out you've all been waiting for". Thanks for doing this comparison.

[@StephenMcLeod]

I am here to serve.

[@toddmoore9138]

Pretty much, I wanted one of these two when I was looking into them, but only one of them is actually available to buy realistically, at least here in the future. But, I did watch, enjoy and appreciate your comparison.

[@StephenMcLeod]

The M8 has more stock coming soon!

[@jacekszydlowski2138]

Polyend Tracker is the only piece of music hardware I sold. And as a Polish guy I really wanted to love that stuff. Now Im waiting for my M8:02 preorder.

[@StephenMcLeod]

M8:02 looks real sweet.

[@polyphonico]

Where did you get the orange low-profile keycaps?

[@StephenMcLeod]

I dyed them myself! I make them in batches and sell them on Etsy when I have spares. Kailh low profile :)

[@freezerman5871]

Having both, I think that the only real advantage of the Polyend Tracker over the M8 is the pads interface and the live record modes. But the sample slice mode is still a mess when played live as it keeps spilling useless note offs all over the tracks. The M8 lacks a live record mode, so you are stuck with just programming the music, but definitely the ergonomics, the implementation, the sound a features are, IMHO, way way better on the M8. The synths on the M8 are also a big plus (even for a guy like me who only stick to samples for sound generation 99% of the time). Also I feel that the Polyend T. sample memory is way too small (120 seconds), that's a big let down sometimes. The no limit approach of the M8 is really refreshing. (And thanks for all your vids BTW, always a pleasure to come by and check out your channel, the "tour" series had a few great moments!).

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments!

[@7177YT]

Excellent! Thank you!

[@StephenMcLeod]

You are welcome!

[@soulpuppets]

Great comparison video!

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks for watching!

[@ByronAtkinsonJones]

Excellent video. I have the Polyend Tracker but I’ll be getting the Dirtywave M8 too,

[@StephenMcLeod]

Nice one! The answer is obviously to get both.

[@Iofflight]

Did yours come with the orange and white buttons or are those after market? And if they are where can I get them?

[@StephenMcLeod]

They are after market. I hand dye the caps. Some are available here, but be quick as there's not many left! www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1100018760/kailh-low-profile-mbk-key-caps

[@thegreatbigmulp]

Well, you talked me into the M8. I'd been following the Polyend for a bit and hadn't really heard much about the M8, but it seems like it has more of what I'm looking for. Also, part of me is just happy that we have a selection of hardware trackers.

[@StephenMcLeod]

I am sure you'll love it! Agree - the selection of hardware trackers that is available now is awesome.

[@negazul1211]

The M8 looks and sound gorgeous, I can't wait to buy one to finally make music everywhere

[@StephenMcLeod]

it is a beauty

[@negazul1211]

@@StephenMcLeod Yeah that's exactly what I said when I first saw the picture !

[@slvshy666]

I've just found out about the m8 and I'm becoming obsessed it and with the idea of creating on the go. I've never used a tracker before though, so I'm worried the transition will be a difficult process. Is there any handheld in the form factor of the m8 but more like a traditional sampler/sequencer? I use Ableton as a casual hobbiest and I'm used to that style of work flow but don't know how to describe it exactly. I've used android/iOS DAWs before and they lack hardware feedback that midi controllers have. I want it all in one package, the size of the m8.... but I have a feeling that may be almost impossible?

[@Samich]

I'd say the smallest thing you could get at a decent price ($50-$100) to dip your toes in the water would probably be one of TE's Pocket Operators. They have a wide variety of them that all have different features (tons of videos on youtube that detail each one -- check out Red Means Recording or some of the other ones out there). They operate in similar ways to trackers, but they're more pick up and go, scratch-pad style devices. Get some simple ideas down but nothing overly complicated.

[@slvshy666]

@@Samich I actually have two pocket operators I'm looking for something more capable. look up the KDJ-ONE, it's almost exactly what I had in mind but it seems to have failed a few years ago, the software looked a little laggy/rough anyways. Maybe it's just not feasible at that size idk.

[@StephenMcLeod]

I would give some freebie trackers a bash and see if you can pickup the workflow. I find it easier than most other traditional samplers/sequencers. Check out the LSDJ ROMs that you can run on a computer or handheld emulator as a good starting point.

[@notarius3508]

If M8 tracker would have fill function with randomization..... Could be a clean win - win IDM machine device))))

[@StephenMcLeod]

You can do that with effects, though it isn't as clear cut as the Polyend Tracker's implementation, for sure.

[@louhimself]

I started 2022 w/ a Polyend Tracker. LOVED it! Half way thru the year some stuff happened, and i needed something battery powered to make tunes w/ on an airplane... So i picked up an M8, and sold the PE to pay for it. Cool device, had a lot of fun. But that tiny screen + my poor eyesight meant having to primarily use it tethered to a computer. Defeated the whole purpose in having it. So now the M8 is for sale BECAUSE i was lucky enough to find a Bogdan Artist edition PE on Reverb for $400! If the next iteration of the M8 has a bigger screen and usb-c, i'm in again. That is unless PE does one w/ a built in battery. Can't wait to see what's coming.

[@StephenMcLeod]

It's a cool time to be interested in tracker music!!

[@louhimself]

@@StephenMcLeod indeed. we are quite fortunate to have the technology we have. Hey, thank you for doing what you do btw. I really do love the channel! I've tried my own channels and can appreciate the effort made.

[@NeverToBeSeenAgain]

To me, the PT is the perfect middle point between LSDJ and an MPC. I have used both for about a decade and the things I love the most from each ended up on the PT. It feels like it was made for me. Both are great devices but when you start thinking of the M8 as "LSDJ 2" and the Polyend Tracker as "an MPC with a tracker", I think it becomes easier to decide which one is right for you. I also just didn't want to keep using LSDJ controls. Imitating the limited controls of the Gameboy while expanding complexity just seems daft to me.

[@StephenMcLeod]

I actually welcome the simple controls of the M8 as it means I can work much faster. Having assignable MIDI control means your e not just limited to that input either. I use mine with external controllers. One big thing I wish I could do was transfer projects and samples without having to take the microSD out, as I do that fairly regularly. Alas!

[@NeverToBeSeenAgain]

@@StephenMcLeod I can only compared to LSDJ but I feel faster on the PT after using it for about a year. Having one button per function/screen is quite addictive and intuitive for me. Does the M8 offer the ability to live record a pattern? That is the feature of the PT that really drew me in. Being able to just play a fleeting pattern and then go clean it up with tracker precision is a really enjoyable way for me to work.

[@phillindablank]

Do you use your Polyend Tracker with any rackmount samplers like the Akai s2000?

[@StephenMcLeod]

Can do. I have an Akai S2000, but I tend to just use the internal sampling of the Polyend for sample duties. I mostly use my Akai S2000 with the Squarp Pyramid or other sequencers.

[@insektgod]

Great review of the first wave of dedicated hardware trackers!! There Can be way more than 2... let's hope. I wanted to get the M8 but the Polyend Tracker was definitely more readily available... that was the deciding factor for me... I was using NitroTracker 0.4 on a DS Lite... so the "Gameboyness" wasn't specifically a plus or minus. MIDI I/O though... YES Please... and finally! I would likely be immediately buying the M8 if I hadn't already got the Polyend Tracker and a 1010 music blackbox in rapid succession. I like that the Mutable Instruments Wavetable Engines are in the M8, but the Wavetable engine in the Polyend Tracker is actually working out for me after finding some worthwhile wavetable libraries. Those tracker tables on the M8 are still causing an itch though.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hell yeah. There is room for all the hardware trackers! I want them all damnit.

[@Aisjam]

"or a mad person" you speak my language. Good Comparison between the 2. would like to have a go at a m8 some day.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hahaha. We're all mad here. You should check out the headless version! Dead cheap to setup.

[@Aisjam]

@@StephenMcLeod I have a an idea for that with my raspberry pi. Just need to get some plastic for the printer and some parts from a junker gameboy.

[@seanmccann595]

They're both really cool devices. How much did you end up paying for the M8? I know its $550 on the website, but what did it end up costing after VAT, duty fees and postage to the UK?

[@StephenMcLeod]

In total the current cost comes to about £500. I got the earlier version at 450USD so I paid less than that, but it's in the ball park.

[@futuresonic]

Paid about £100 total on top of the initial cost of unit for VAT, import duty etc…

[@rorz999]

@@futuresonic cheers. They've just reopened orders again, I'm tempted but slightly out of my price range currently

[@doctorauxiliary]

I do love my polyend tracker a WHOLE LOT!! but now I want to add the M8 to my peaceful brigade of noisemaking machines.

[@StephenMcLeod]

peaceful brigade of noisemakers is a good name for a band.

[@JAdeWii_]

Soooo I heard you used to sell the dyed caps on etsy.. Please tell me your gonna make more cause I want my M8 to look oh so fly like yours!

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hiya! I did, but Etsy were a nightmare. I have set up my own shop at shop.allmyfriendsaresynths.com - it's not online just now but it should be a in a couple of weeks and I will have more. :)

[@engin3ar]

​@@StephenMcLeodany chance you will make these again? Not sure how long they've been sold out

[@StephenMcLeod]

@@engin3ar Dyed caps wise... nah, they are all gone. There's a bunch of places that mass-make them now for cheaper :)

[@burprobrox9134]

Did I miss, maybe you said. Is there a way to move tracks between them? Like I sit somewhere and make a track on m8, then in the studio open it and keep working. Maybe a m8 on the go, then setup a headless in the studio.

[@StephenMcLeod]

You can move the projects between headless and M8, yeah. They are stored on the microSD, so you would just export the project as a bundle which contains all the instruments etc, then load that up in the headless for example.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Or just have the one microSD card actually. That would be easier!

[@jefftheworld]

It's worth mentioning that the production m8 can simply plug in via USB and be used in headless mode. You wouldn't need two devices.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Bingo. I think this question may be in reference to a previous conversation where I encouraged Burp to check out the headless unit first, but worth mentioning for any interlopers!

[@jefftheworld]

Also, I can see the landscape changing once the m8 source code is opened up. At that point, it'll be possible for people to build "studio m8s" which include whichever physical connectors they choose for midi and audio in/out and in a form factor which is most convenient for their studio setup. You could even add pre-amps and phantom power and USB-C … 🤔💭

[@canecreek00]

I’ve got both and wouldn’t part with either, I have found up to now the polyend does a better job of bouncy audio stems however maybe I’ve just not got my head around the gain staging in the M8 yet to get better results.

[@StephenMcLeod]

There's actually still a bug in the polyend's output of stems which causes a large pop or glitch at the start of the master for full song stem export which is quite annoying. You can work around it by exporting the mix separately, but still a pain!

[@Screenshot1015]

I have both and both are amazing however, the M8 is hands down my favorite piece of music hardware.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Agree. I like it so much that I bought two!

[@ElectronisoundsAudio]

Nice one! I like the outro jam! Did you have any trouble getting the 2 to sync up properly? 😀 👊 (edit: I see in another comment that you are using the ERM, Any issues? I need to try this, i've also got the ERM...)

[@StephenMcLeod]

Thanks a lot! No issues at all. Easy peasy.

[@RedMeansRecording]

M8 4 Lyfe

[@StephenMcLeod]

Let the M8 clan unite.

[@touiarrial5823]

Thanks for this straight forward comparison. I used to play tekno on Fast Tracker2 and am glad to see hardware trackers. Questions: 1/ any specific recommendation of controller for M8? 2/ I already have an Octatrack (catch sample on the fly, tweak and resample): what would be the added value of a tracker in terms of live performance ? Is it better to pair with M8 or PT? Thanks for your feedback !

[@StephenMcLeod]

1 - MIDI controller? I've been experimenting with the intech.studio/ modules which seem pretty good - a nice size, and modular. 2 - I've not used an Octatrack yet, but the live mode on the M8 is a bit more predictable (non destructive to song mode) so I prefer that. The M8 has synths in there as well as sample playback, so it really depends on what you'd want to do!

[@duketranslucent3rd]

Thanks for this! Presumably you had to pay import tax to UK on the M8?

[@StephenMcLeod]

I did yeah. Add on 25% to the cost and you're in the right arena :)

[@duketranslucent3rd]

@@StephenMcLeod Urgh. Thought so. Thanks!

[@RaverOperatorGeeza]

​@@duketranslucent3rdit's a pain, an additional tax, but I can promise you it's worth it! You have to bare in mind, it's not a multinational company and they don't have a store in UK we can buy from. I certainly don't regret ordering mine 7 or 8 months ago. The skipping from USA to UK on that order was 2 or 3 days. I was amazed, I was expecting 3 weeks!!! Plus it comes with case and SD card reader and cables and slip on cover plus stickers etc... It's a really nice device, and powerful!

[@cooptrol]

Great video! I am aware of the vast possibilities of the M8, but I chose to buy the PT cos M8 is too small for my hands and eyes. I dig the limitations, and like the hardware design a lot. I wish it would have more that 48 instruments and more sampling time, but is a much more balanced product between software and hardware. I find the M8 too expansive software for such a tiny device. And I hate touchscreens! And controllers! I am too a mad person. I'm sure Polyend are in this moment working on a huge upgrade that will bring new awesome features.

[@StephenMcLeod]

The screen size is definitely tricksy for a blind b*** like me, but it's not as bad as I thought. The touchscreen isn't really used for anything except custom parameters, so thankfully that doesn't play into it too much. The screen on the Tracker is nice and big though.

[@mad.operator]

Very cool. Is having both of any benefits? Was it easy to sync them together and does that make sense? I have the Polyend and love it but sounds like I'd also be well into the M8 according to your video

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hey thanks! You can synch the two together, and that will give you 16 channels effectively, but the rows/patterns won't synch up/change at the same time necessarily. You can do some cool stuff with both together, but it's not something I've found a great 'practical' use for. If you like the Polyend you'll almost certainly like the M8 though!

[@helppotato]

Can they just like combine the features of the two and make the ultimate tracker? Would have bought the polyend tracker a long time ago if it had stereo sampling, internal synths and streaming from the memory card.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Even then you'd still be left with the question of portability! Workflow as well. The feature sets could be identical but the workflow would probably still lead to wars being waged. Ha

[@zolyos]

Hello ! I am quite interested in trackers because I like the idea of programming beats. I just saw that they exist in hardware and I had the idea to sample my jomox alphabase to do some breakbeat… do you think it’s possible ? From what I understand it is but I’m totally noob for all this haha I like the dirtywave m8 because of its portability, do you think it’s worth it for what I want to do ? Thanks a lot :D

[@StephenMcLeod]

Should definitely be possible, yes! You can record and sample things directly into the M8.

[@zolyos]

@@StephenMcLeod thanks for your answer really appreciate it :) Keep up the good work

[@Niko80s]

you can just plug any powerbank into Polyend Tracker and also make it portable :)

[@StephenMcLeod]

@@Niko80s True dat, though it's not quite as portable in the handheld way that I like for travelling. I would take the M8 anywhere, but the Polyend less so.

[@zolyos]

@@Niko80s indeed but I like the size of the M8 (I receive it tomorrow !) thanks for your help

[@marizuokereke7347]

Really enjoyed your video(s)! I wondered whether you have used NerdSeq with your modular. If so, how did you find it? It allows you to mix a linear tracker type of approach with an Ableton clip launch ability for very flexible arrangement and live capabilities. It has advanced features like tables. There are a number of expanders available for it which include the video expander which magnifies the screen up.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hey! Thanks for watching. I haven't actually used the NerdSeq... It's a cool looking device, but ergonomically for me, I didn't think it would work very well in my vertical rack. I think you can get a controller module to plug in to let you use an external pad etc, but that would take up a lot of valuable HP space which I haven't got! I prefer the external devices for that reason.

[@tobillusion]

@@StephenMcLeod there is also the NerdSeq Portable. But I think it didnt start to deliver but not sure about that.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Yeah, it's not out yet from what I gather!

[@TheCuri]

I tried the m8 Headless in a 35 Euro teensy 4.1 and did not like the approach so I stay True to my polyend tracker for sampling 😀 synth Sounds Come out of my other easy to use boxes like circuit tracks op z or arturia Microfreak

[@StephenMcLeod]

Nice combo! I'm a fan of the Microfreak too.

[@SimpleTrax]

I own neither, but am considering Polyend Tracker because its workflow seems so fluent and quick. M8 handheld device seems intimidating, menu-divey and uncomfortable TO ME (never actually tried it). The MI synth stuff is of no interest to me, its obscure, I also have synths that I actually know. Main thig that is holding me back on Polyend Tracker is its price and rumored bugs and its limitations in sequencing.

[@StephenMcLeod]

@@SimpleTrax The M8 definitely has a steeper learning curve, but isn't menu divey at all, fwiw. If you want a straightforward hardware tracker device then it sounds like the PT would be your best bet. Most of the bugs I've spoken about before have been ironed out, and unless you are doing something very specific it shouldn't be an issue any more.

[@EnTallrikPropaganda]

I have a polyend tracker that's my favorite piece of hardware to date (and I've had way too much stuff). I love it as a sequencer for other gear, or for drums and bass, but I don't particularly like the overall sound of more "synth or sample"-based stuff. Also in general think the master effects are pretty poor sounding. But my favorite feature with the PT are the "effects" to each step - I really like how I can adjust BPM per step, and add the rolls etc. I also really like the ability to shift each track's pattern in performance mode, meaning I can work with different patterns of different length and even with individual tempos at once (obviously this dosnt rly work to program into song mode though, so I record it live into DAW and arrange songs there then). With this being said, I haven't seen much about the equivalents of track effects etc for the Dirtywave. Would love to hear some of your thoughts on how you think one would fit me, given what I've said are my favorite features about the PT? Great thanks in advance, and thanks for a great video!

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hey! Yes. Well spotted. That's one area I didn't address specifically. The M8 has a similar approach to effects per step - that's a common tracker feature. With the M8 there are three FX lanes, as opposed to the two FX lanes on the Polyend Tracker. There are similar effects available, though they are different. The M8 has more powerful effects, but they can be a bit trickier to work out due to the depth (though not impossible). I like the roll effect a lot on the tracker, which isn't in the M8 - but there are similar ways to achieve that kind of thing. Either way, the M8 would definitely also address the points that you like about the PT :)

[@EnTallrikPropaganda]

@@StephenMcLeod thanks for the swift reply! That's good to know, I don't come from tracker background and I think im still really liking the "tracker as a piece of hardware but arranging in regular daw" - setup, so still haven't gone down the tracker daw hole. But that's both great and terrible news then, because looks like I'll simply have to get myself a M8 and see which one works best. To be honest, I love my PT so much, that I think it's likely I could find good use for both anyway haha.

[@EnTallrikPropaganda]

@@StephenMcLeod for clarity, it being a bit tricky doesn't scare me one bit, if anything the opposite! Don't mind digging for gold. :)

[@timothylamb7861]

@@StephenMcLeod Isn't "roll" the same as the RET (retrigger) effect command in M8?

[@StephenMcLeod]

@@timothylamb7861 Good question. I thought it operated a bit differently, but if not then that is awesome!

[@amaurygroc2386]

I'm curious about your experience: my best friend who lives far away tells me that he's frustrated because when sequencing a bass sample on a single track, he gets clicks when steps cut the sample short, on the polyend. I use the m8 headless and didn't observe the same. It's only second hand information that I can't investigate further. Have you observed such behaviour?

[@StephenMcLeod]

I can't say I've experienced that on either device!

[@amaurygroc2386]

And thanks a lot for this video, and others! M8 clan here ;)

[@amaurygroc2386]

@@StephenMcLeod thanks!

[@wurlinnawurl]

You think either is more fun and sounds better then opz?

[@StephenMcLeod]

They are both quite different. The M8 is definitely more powerful than the OPZ. The Polyend requires you bring your own samples, so not a straight comparison. The OPZ is fun and more immediate, especially if you aren't a tracker user, but I prefer the M8 no question.

[@VRUMZSSSR]

Wow!) interesting! in fact, I also thought about removing the comparison for the Russian-speaking audience

[@StephenMcLeod]

Do it! The more the better.

[@dreamstaticsounds]

Was USB midi, by chance, one of the things you couldn't get to work in the Polyend Tracker? Because I'm having no luck. Midi over trs works great but I'm getting nothing in or out from USB.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Ah no, sorry to hear that. I had some weirdness with USB MIDI, but I think it was to do with my Shuttle Control. What kinda setup are you running?

[@dreamstaticsounds]

@@StephenMcLeod well, I feel like an asshole now. Haha. I'm using it with my Akai Force. Just tried it with my laptop with Reaper and was able to control a VST with it just fine. Must be a bug with the new Force firmware that was just released. It's weird though because my other midi devices work with it fine. I suppose it could be another one of those flukes where two devices just don't like each other. Thanks for the great video comparison! I didn't really have any interest in the M8 before your video. The lack of battery in the Tracker seems like a real missed opportunity to me.

[@StephenMcLeod]

@@dreamstaticsounds not an arsehole at all! Things should work!!!

[@troyamato8617]

Hey, great video! Do you know if either of these devices can rip samples directly from a device like GBA,DS, or the new “Analogue Pocket?” I am really interested in using some authentic samples, but not sure how that would work on either of these devices. Thanks!

[@StephenMcLeod]

You can record directly into both of them! Though sampling is mono only on the Tracker I believe.

[@troyamato8617]

Thank you! I’ve got no excuse not to pick one up now haha!

[@gminorcoles]

So there is an open issue on the polyend tracker github is that it has 3 milliseconds of midi jitter just playing a single repeated note at 120bpm. Do you care about this? Is the m8 able to keep better time? A sequencer that can't keep time is unattractive to me

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hey. MIDI jitter is incredibly annoying. I have to say that I don't know how to measure it, so can't give you a definitive answer here. Honestly though, I've fought with jitter and timing problems for years because I use lots of different hardware... and in the end my solution was to get an ERM MultiClock and slave everything to that, so I don't really use the internal clock of the Tracker for anything except composing. I haven't noticed issues outside of that though.

[@jaredf6205]

I hope you make a new video about the M8 soon!

[@StephenMcLeod]

What would you like to see?

[@kurtiunlisted8589]

Love your dialect ❤️

[@StephenMcLeod]

Why thank ye. It is the sexiest accent in the world so fair do's

[@reginaldbraithewaite5833]

Have you gotten to use the M8 with Nanoloop and, if so, how did it work for you? I really liked the ability to morph between sounds and loops when I used a beta version with a Gameboy DMG long ago and the M8 is obviously capable of running it. Also, people on Elektronauts keep comparing the M8's sample mangling to that of the Octatrack. What do you make of that? Last thing: I'd love to see you compare the Polyend to a Cyrklon, which I've been on the waiting list to buy for about five years now! It's now a Cyrklon 2.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hey Reginald! Thanks for the comment. Nanoloop won't run on the M8, as the M8 only runs its own software (not Game Boy carts). The Analogue Pocket has Nanoloop built in I believe, but that's primarily a gaming device. I can't speak to the similarities with the Octatrack as I haven't had one, but you do get a huge amount of control over each step, with three lanes of step FX. If somebody wants to donate me a Cyrklon I will gladly compare them. Five years on the waiting list is nuts!!

[@bclikesyou]

Me, already owning an M8 and after years of using LSDj: "Hm well I still wanna know what Stephen has to say."

[@StephenMcLeod]

That's the kind of commitment I need!

[@entropyroshan9846]

Would the M8 be able to work with something like the Akai APC40 MK2? Cool if it could.

[@StephenMcLeod]

In what way would you imagine it working - as a clip controller? In that sense, they aren't really set up to operate in the same way, but as a midi controller you could still do cool things with it.

[@surikaten4400]

Got my pt a week ago and i cant seem to get it to work with any of my external devices. Any idea on what im doing wrong?

[@StephenMcLeod]

That depends. What is your setup? What are you expecting to happen that isn't?

[@surikaten4400]

@@StephenMcLeod i just want to get sound out of one of my synths. Playing the keys on my PT. I tried to hook up: volca keys, volca bass, modal skulpt with no success

[@StephenMcLeod]

@@surikaten4400 you need to connect the synth up using the midi cable from the output of the PT to the input of the synth. Then you need to use the midi note instrument on the tracker and ensure the channels are set correctly. Have a look at the manual for the section on midi instruments and that will help

[@iamsimonmorris]

Just got my notice my M8 is on it's way...I do have the Polyend Tracker...I am thinking do I now offload my Polyend....versy confused

[@StephenMcLeod]

I think both have their place! I like the polyend more for midi sequencing so far... Let me know what you make of it!

[@iamsimonmorris]

@@StephenMcLeod will do

[@subiesojourner777]

After watching quite a few videos, I went with the M8 due to it's portability and I'm very impressed with both the build quality and how straight forward Tim is with everything about his product. Yes, I'll have to wait until September to get it, but that's OK, I've got a lot of other synths to play with. 😁 There is a poster on your wall over your right shoulder that has wave forms, is that something you made or bought? Lastly, as of this post, Dirtywave is back to pre-orders only.

[@StephenMcLeod]

I love the M8! Those posters are real nice. Made by the good folks at synthstudio.art/ :)

[@LordoftheBadgers]

Now we have polyend mini which seems a better thing to compare?

[@StephenMcLeod]

We don't really have it yet. It's only just been announced. :) The mini is effectively just the Tracker in a smaller package.

[@LordoftheBadgers]

@@StephenMcLeod yeah I know mate :) feels like they are more akin, no? That said just been watching the vid thru and the gas for the m8 is real. I already have deluge for studio brain activities

[@StephenMcLeod]

@@LordoftheBadgers I don't want to say too much without seeing the Mini for myself... but my initial impression is that the M8 is far more powerful than the Tracker generally, so while the Polyend Mini would be cool, if I was picking a handheld device I would go with the M8.

[@LordoftheBadgers]

@@StephenMcLeod yeah I get ya. Atm it's not a priority as deluge is a portable too - the sheer size of m8 is the draw here. But I don't know if I can honestly say I would make music "on the move" as much as I'd like to believe IRL

[@StephenMcLeod]

@@LordoftheBadgers Yeah. I like using the M8 on the couch and when travelling. It's easily my favourite device. I use it live a lot as well! I'd like to try the Mini, but when it comes down to a more direct comparison, there's no doubt that the M8 is the more powerful/capable device.

[@FuZZbaLLbee]

I saw that there is a home brew version of a tracker on the Nintendo DS. I might give that a go to see if I like it Looked it up, it’s Nitrotracker

[@StephenMcLeod]

Nice one! Let me know what you think.

[@dr.eville]

I use tables all the time with the Nerdseq. Very powerful. Nerdseq is the most powerful eurorack sequencer in my opinion. It can also sequence midi. You would like the Nerdseq I think.

[@StephenMcLeod]

I would like to try it out! I don't want it in the euro format though as my eyesight is awful. Would rather some kinda desktop thingy

[@dr.eville]

@@StephenMcLeod Nerdseq does have an expander module that let's you connect a monitor and keyboard

[@StephenMcLeod]

Yeahhh I've heard that. Ergonomically it's not for me, but maybe one day when I have a bit more space...

[@kierenmoore3236]

Awesome review/comparison; thank you! 😎👍🏼🙏🏼. By the time one external midi controls and screencasts the Dirtywave, can you see any reason it couldn’t function just as well as a desktop sequencer, such as you like using the Polyend for … ? 🤔 The deeper sample editing of the Polyend seems a bit of a non-issue for me, since - whilst it might be more back-and-forth - I’d imagine mostly doing sample editing/sound design first - and with other equipment - anyway … I’m always a bit uneasy about units with internal batteries, which are also plugged in a lot (and the affect that has on the battery’s life, too) … not as big a deal, if it’s tech you can expect to want to replace/upgrade anyway in a few years; but otherwise, it’s always a bit of a concern to me … 🤷🏻‍♂️ Otherwise, other than non-USB-C 😉, the Dirtywave seems almost perfect (and around 2/3rds the price) …

[@StephenMcLeod]

Hiya! Thanks :) The price of the units winds up at about the same once you factor in tax/shipping/etc. If anything, the Dirtywave is actually probably a bit more expensive, but I think is worth it. I tried to touch on it a bit, but there's two reasons I prefer the Tracker over the M8 for desktop midi sequencing. Firstly, the ability to see a number of the tracks running at once (not possible in the same way on the M8 due to the LSDJ style layout), and also just the physicality of it. The M8 is handheld, so is kind of awkward as a desktop unit in a bigger setup. Functionally speaking it's just as easy to program MIDI though!

[@StephenMcLeod]

Ah sorry you said by the time you add external midi and screencast the M8. The external MIDI control wouldn't make a huge difference. Obviously if you run it through an external screen and use a handheld controller for the M8 then it's more desktop friendly, but that's a pain in the arse to have to do from my perspective - it adds a few more steps that the PT doesn't have. :)

[@GrueneVanilleWaffel]

isnt the mono sampling of the tracker compared to the stereo sample of the m8 quite a big negative point? otherwise I'd probably prefer the tracker, due to similar prices

[@StephenMcLeod]

Yeah that's another thing that the M8 has over the Tracker for sure.

[@GrueneVanilleWaffel]

@@StephenMcLeod thank you sir :) especially for the fast answer then I understood that correctly :) I'm a giant newb

[@GrueneVanilleWaffel]

@@StephenMcLeod another question cuz I'm also fucking broke do you know sunvox? what do you think of using that + mapping keyboard controls on a gamepad instead of the headless m8 + teensy approach? sunvox looks quite similiar (BUT IM A FUCKING NOOB) and I have a gamepad it would be for free a teensy costs also quite a lot already - at least for me..

[@StephenMcLeod]

You could try out LSDJ or Sunvox for free if you just want to try out trackers, definitely - though the M8 is much more powerful than either, so you won't get all of its features.

[@decaystar]

17:54 -> this video must be obsolete now then, as Polyend Tracker Plus also have Synthesis engines too..

[@StephenMcLeod]

This isn't about the tracker plus

[@decaystar]

@@StephenMcLeod Time for a review of Polyend Tracker Plus then? ;)

[@StephenMcLeod]

@decaystar never!!

[@entropyroshan9846]

I’m looking for something that would replace my endless hours of tiktok and KZbin on my phone! The M8 is the way to go! Now I just need to be patient till July!! Damn you chip shortages!!

[@StephenMcLeod]

It's worth the wait!!

[@josecortez5213]

There are no losers, the end users are all winners.

[@StephenMcLeod]

I am the biggest winner of all.

[@adeevision1297]

Song mode on the polyend is a bit limited especially for live use with multiple songs as the loading time between songs limits its use.

[@StephenMcLeod]

100%

[@EricFoster]

Great video. Didn't help at all, but great video.

[@StephenMcLeod]

Sometimes you just gotta take the plunge.

[@EricFoster]

@@StephenMcLeod I was being silly. I really did help me choose, but I want both!

[@StephenMcLeod]

@@EricFoster You know the answer... :D

[@EricFoster]

@@StephenMcLeod the answer is both! Quick question, when recording audio in, do you get a metronome or something (Polyend tracker). I feel like it could be sick for live looping if you can record live over your beat or metronome.

[@els1f]

To me, if I'm going to clog my desk with something like the polyend and spend all that cash, it's going to be an octatrack or an mpc, but I'm not a tracker type 😋 I can deal with it in that portable form factor though! That's what keeps my attention on that M8. It looks like a ton of fun Edit: wait, How much did that tattoo on your palm hurt!? I heard that was incredibly painful

[@StephenMcLeod]

I love the M8!

[@colinbrash]

I don’t know if anyone here is used Buzz before, but I’d pay an ungodly amount of money for Buzz in a Polyend hardware format…

[@StephenMcLeod]

Is Buzz a tracker? What platform was it on?

[@colinbrash]

@@StephenMcLeod yeah it was a weird tracker with a ton of stuff that made it unique. Jeskola Buzz. You could route instruments and effects wherever you wanted, and the sequencer was also pretty unique. It was Windows only and apparently the developer lost the source code and just made it freeware. A couple famous producers started with it, but moved on. But now I have a Mac and can’t really use it anymore…

[@grihaspoormachine]

@@colinbrash is it like sunvox?

[@colinbrash]

@@grihaspoormachine yeah the instrument/effect routing was a lot like Sunvox, though with more and better options imo. The sequencing was its own thing, though.

[@berlinblast5736]

@@colinbrash I never tried it in Mac but on Linux based systems Wine works well for many such applications.

[@indigosnow_]

should be interesting now that mini is out now

[@StephenMcLeod]

The proof will be in the pudding!

[@BinauralBae]

Ope... I bought both

[@StephenMcLeod]

That's one way to do it!!

[@mb2776]

As much as I like my Atari ST with it's perfect midi timing, my situation at home changed and it just takes to much time to turn everything on just to make some music for an hour or to change some small stuff, so I looked into different sequencers. I really (!!) wanted to like the PE tracker. Regarding electronic music, I'm into jungle, ambient, glitch, lofi etc. The Tracker would be perfect for jungle but I kinda dislike the user interface of it, especially the tiny numerous pads. Idk, the tracker interface is great but other than that, for me personally I don't see a real use case. The m8 is great for producing and stuff but mixing would be a nightmare on it, it's just not build for that in mind and that's okay. I kinda despise producing and mixing on a daw, that's why despite Renoise being an absolutly awesome programm, I don't use it that much. So in the End, I decided to get a Mpc live 2 for its versatility but If I'm able to, I would love to get a m8. For most of the stuff, I'd like to really get into the details and you can get lost in the tracker workflow, a linear edit is kinda easier for me. But damn, programing amen breaks on a tracker is just a breeze and the other features of the m8 with it's portability sounds so nice! btw, would be awesome to connect the m8 to the mpc live 2 via usb midi and have it recognizeit. don't mind setting up 5pin midi but charging the m8 battery from the live 2 while having midi with just on cable would be awesome. drums and fm from the m8, xyfx effects and the rest from the mpc live 2, mixing with a midi controller and it's faders = the dream^^

[@StephenMcLeod]

I would like to get the MPC Live at some point. It looks like an awesome tool. I love my MPC 2500 mind you. I don't find mixing that bad on the M8 - I do it for live shows as well. The beauty of the tracker setup is that you can change parameters like volume etc dynamically per step/micro-step. Can you not use the M8 and MPC Live 2 together in the manner you are describing? Or does it get confused with the host situation.

[@mikenoface]

Hello. I am a mad person.

[@StephenMcLeod]

We are all mad here.

[@Lurkartiist]

tracker has more buttons so that's my choice lol

[@StephenMcLeod]

A solid choice!