Polyglot reacts to @IAmMarkManson's language learning advice

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CC subtitles available in multiple languages.
Someone recently suggested that I give my opinion on language-learning advice from bestselling author ‪@IAmMarkManson‬.
Mark's blog post: markmanson.net/learn-a-foreig...
⏲️ TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - What is this video about?
0:41 Tip 1: Conversation, Conversation, Conversation
1:29 Tip 2: Intensity of Study Trumps Length of Study
2:18 Tip 3: Classes Suck and Are an Inefficient Use of Time and Money
2:53 Tip 4: Know Your Motivation
3:34 Tip 5: Set Learning Goals
4:37 Tip 6: Start With the 100 Most Common Words
5:26 Tip 7: Carry a Pocket Dictionary
5:53 Tip 8: Keep Practicing the New Language in Your Head
6:13 Tip 9: You’re Going to Say a Lot of Stupid Things. Accept It
6:44 Tip 10: Figure Out Pronunciation Patterns
7:09 Tip 11: Use Audio and Online Courses for the First 100 Words and Basic Grammar
7:46 Tip 12: After the First 100 Words, Focus on Becoming Conversational
8:13 Tip 13: Aim for the Brain Melt
8:43 Tip 14: Use the New Language Daily
8:57 Tip 15: “How Do You Say X?” Is the Most Important Sentence
9:18 Tip 16: One-on-One Tutoring Is the Best and Most Efficient Use of Time
9:52 Tip 17: Date Someone Who Speaks the Target Language
10:09 Tip 18: Find a Language Buddy Online
10:34 Tip 19: Facebook Chat + Google Translate = Winning
10:48 Tip 20: Try to Use New Words Right Away
11:32 Tip 21: TV Shows, Movies, Newspapers and Magazines Are Good Supplements
12:01 Tip 22: Most People Are Helpful, Let Them Help
12:33 Tip 23: There Will Be a Lot of Ambiguity and Miscommunication
12:47 Tip 24: Phases You Go Through to Learn a Foreign Language
13:22 Tip 25: Find a Way to Make It Fun
14:21 Conclusion
📺 WATCH NEXT:
What Is Comprehensible Input? • What Is Comprehensible...
Dr. Stephen Krashen, a Conversation About Language Acquisition: kzbin.infop7WUxvpP...
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[@Thelinguist]

📲 The app I use to learn languages: bit.ly/46x8X9c 🆓 My 10 FREE secrets to language learning: bit.ly/3RarKmq ❓Did you agree with Mark’s advice? Tell me in the comments!

[@GeorgeDeCarlo]

I HAVE BEEN COMMENTING ON MANY POLYGLOT VIDEOS INCLUDING STEVE KAUFMAN'S ABOUT TOTAL FAILURE OF CONVENTIONAL METHOD, STORYTELLING AND LINGQ IN GETTING ME TO EVEN BE BASICALLY CONVERSATIONALLY FLUENT. I HAVE WRITTEN TO LINGQ MANY TIMES. I WAS SENT SUGGESTIONS COVERING THREE PAGES. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO FIRST AND WHAT TO EXACTLY DO AFTER ALL THE 13 YEARS OF FAILURE. I HAVE MESSAGES ON THE PHONE OF LINGQ HEADQUARTERS. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? I WAS PROMISED AFTER THREE MONTHS WHEN DOING LINGQ I WOULD START TO UNDERSTAND. I WAS MORE THAN DEDICATED EVERY DAY. NOTHING HAPPENED. IT FAILED. THEN AFTER COMPLAINING I WAS SENT THE THREE PAGES THAT ARE CONFUSING. WHAT IS WRONG? -- GEORGE DECARLO 908-342-1275

[@zeppelinmexicano]

I got A's in college French, went to France and was shocked to find that I couldn't converse worth shit on a shingle. One day the hotel clerk (whom I leaned on to practice) told me not to talk to him in French any more. He spoke English and was tired of me "conversing" with him in his language. Good for him to be blunt about it! Conversation is great practice, but it can be self defeating if you don't get enough of the language into your bones first.

[@dennisreynolds1341]

He was also French, so.

[@qu14torze82]

@@dennisreynolds1341 He was French so what? You sound a bit arrogant. Hope I'm wrong.

[@01107345]

@@tliltocatlalbopilosa1513 It may not be politely received, but it's the only possible option, because immediately defaulting to English is much worse. Just try to speak French. Yes, almost all of them know English, but if you approach a French person and START by addressing them in English, then most of the time, from my experience, they'll just act like they don't understand you. That was my experience in Paris. So, if you want to communicate with a French person efficiently if you're not fluent, typically that would involve going through the motions of trying French, and then immediately switching to English because they get impatient. C'est la vie. Now, if there's any French person reading this, and is about to say that I don't know what I'm talking about -- yeah, you could correct me, and everyone would agree with you, because you're the native speaker and I'm not. But then, you've never been a foreigner in France, have you? Think about it.

[@epikar]

@@tliltocatlalbopilosa1513 If there are plenty of people learning your language it can be annoying. It is another thing if you wonder why somebody is learning such an unimportant language as yours. :)

[@epikar]

@@01107345 It is polite to ask if the person knows the language. In many situations you need the person to set to the language. Maybe the person is not accustomed to be addressed in English. Or it can be interpreted as arrogancy and imperialism.

[@JASMINEAL354]

What I often do in learning English in order to get fluency is repetition. Is it boring? Yes, but repetition is a must.

[@maximemegroud9678]

Is it ? I just read and listen. Sometimes I spend weeks without uttering a single word and I'm doing pretty fine :)

[@whimzycloud]

@@maximemegroud9678Repetition doesn’t necessarily mean speaking.

[@maximemegroud9678]

@@whimzycloud Yeah whatever 🙄

[@putinisakiller8093]

Repetition can be VERY different. :)

[@aprendainglesemcasabr4668]

I had trying this method, but isn't not good enough to learn. Repetition is good in different contexts. Learn vocabulary is not enough to be fluent or understand a language. You must practice listening every day. Listening 2 hours per day is good for you improve your listening skills.

[@gamingwithpurg3anarchy157]

I carry a pocket dictionary everywhere I go. It's also a calculator, a flashlight, a way to learn languages. It's called a phone cause it's 2023 and there's no need to carry a dictionary 😂

[@nineveh17]

fr ahahahah

[@nineveh17]

blud thinks we're scholars of ohara 🤣🤣

[@ryanolsen294]

Lol

[@kenokrend4600]

shhh the man is 78 years old, leave him alone

[@donnyrogers1445]

@@kenokrend4600The man is not the one who gave this tip. Steve actually refuted this statement.

[@adanliranzo2403]

Input is the most important

[@confidencemagnet1026]

Shout out to you and Stephen Krashen for introducing the Compelling Comprehensive Input method to me when it comes to language learning. All these years I been trying to learn how to speak Spanish as quickly as possible by learning words and grammar instead of doing a lot of listening and reading. It's a slow process, but you are able to express complex thoughts at a faster rate. In other words, you may not be able to speak with confidence right away, but when you are watching movies, listening to the radio or podcast, etc in your target language, you catch and understand more words than you have before trying to focus more on output. I think native speaker think it's "cute" when you put in the effort to speak to them in their native language, but they may not show a high level of interest to talk to you casually if you don't have the ability to listen at a native speaker's pace and they're constantly giving you a language lesson. It's like speaking to a child vs. speaking to a peer. When you have acquired enough of the language to where you can understand moderately complex thoughts, express your opinion, and catch certain jokes and references, they will treat you as a peer. They will even treat you with more respect. Think about how people treat people who speak very little English vs. how they treat people who speak English with more fluency. It works the same way if you are trying to speak to a person in your target language and they don't know your native language.

[@scruvydom]

MsC in TESOL, 11 years English language teacher here - essentially no one within the field today buys Krashen's theories wholesale. Input is important, but it is absolutely not sufficient for developing language proficiency. Check Paul Nation's Four Strands theory for a good summary of the state of the art in our understanding of second language development - www.wgtn.ac.nz/lals/resources/paul-nations-resources/paul-nations-publications/publications/documents/1996-Four-strands.pdf

[@squaretriangle9208]

Very true, to speak with a limited understanding is taking a toll on the native speaker😢 you are doing this only if this is family, a friend or a colleague

[@zeppelinmexicano]

@@squaretriangle9208haha, true that leaning on native speakers when we're at a low level of skill can wear their asses out, but I get my own ass worn out from that too. There is a such thing as jumping into the ocean over your head before you can swim. Sure, you learn to flail to stay alive but that isn't exactly the motivation I'm looking for. Who wants to flail to that level? Flailing a little can be stimulating, but drowning isn't.

[@theworldaccordingtoallie1176]

This was really good advice. I’ve been trying to learn Spanish and I need to do way more input, b/c my “speaking” it sucks.

[@squaretriangle9208]

@@zeppelinmexicano yeah, but the learner profits whereas the native speaker doesn't

[@joepiekl]

I agree on the most common 100 words. There's a couple of issues. Firstly, as you say, these words will simply occur so often that you don't need to explicitly learn them. But secondly, the reason the words are so frequent is that they are typically used in a hundred different contexts. If you look at learning English, the word 'the' will appear in the very first lesson, but then open an advanced grammar book, and there will still be exercises about it there. What does the word 'have' mean? Well it means to possess, but it also has all sorts of grammatical functions in Perfect sentences (have been), passive sentences (to have something done). A lot of the frequent words in English at prepositions. What does 'on' mean? Well it means 'in contact with.' Unless you're talking about the lights. Or it's being used to create a phrasal verb. If you learned the 100 words in English, you would learn 'get,' 'on' and 'with' and you still wouldn't understand what 'get on with' means. So at what point have you 'learned' any of those words? Personally, I'd say the first things you should learn is vocabulary related to yourself, because that often won't come up in books. When I was learning French in school, I had a guinea pig. How many beginner textbooks do you think had that as one of the pets on their unit about animals? I teach English, and I don't really teach lower levels any more, but when I did, I was always amazed by the number of people who would get to A2 level, or even B1, without knowing how to say the name of their job or university subject in English. They'd just gone through the books, and learned what was in there, with no thought to what they might want to talk about in real life.

[@tohaason]

Those are very good points. One thing is pretty clear - there's really no point in memorizing "words" as lists of the most "common" words. Except for simple nouns like "dog" or "cat" and the like, the actual usage and meaning can't be taught as simple translations. Even a noun like "chair" may be out of reach - it's one of those cases where the usage and place may define what a "chair" is to be called. And memorizing verbs.. hopeless. The way "Break" is used in English isn't covering the same cases where a translation is used in other languages. The way to learn vocabulary and how to use vocabulary is massive amounts of input (with sufficient comprehension, i.e. somewhat curated input in the beginning). The way to a 100 words is fast, and both better and more useful than trying to memorize lists of pretty much useless translations (except simple words like dog and cat, and when do you actually need those all the time..)

[@TheRedFoxMcCloud]

@@tohaason i agree with you and it always bothers me when alot of people say "translate" while learning a language but it just makes the learning process much more painful to deal with.......

[@languagemaus8083]

Tip 6: I think learning the most common words can be useful, if done in addition to input. Matt vs Japan explained it well: using flashcards can make you "familiar" with the words, so when you go on and read/listen a lot you will notice them more quickly and the input becomes more comprehensible. But it´s not through flashcards that you really learn them (acquire), it´s through the exposure in different contexts. Of course it also deends on motivation: if you learn for fun and have no rush, there´s no need for that. If you want to learn faster, then the addition of flashcards can help..

[@TheTheawesomeguy35]

Also flash cards can just make it less frustrating so you’re not forgetting every word early on

[@benhallo1553]

Great comment - this is exactly what I did with German

[@betos-08]

oh no, not Matt the egotistical incel

[@languagemaus8083]

@@betos-08 incel?? how did you even come up with that and what is it supposed to add to the discussion?

[@betos-08]

@@languagemaus8083 Do you know Matt? I knew him before he started MIA and his other brands, when he was still promoting AJATT around 2018. He has serious issues. He's very manipulative, egotistical, extremely lazy, greedy and rips people off, blames everyone he can, etc. Idk just seeing someone mention Matt made me remember him and all the drama he starts. And yes he's an incel who fetishized Japan and people from there, I could've also just said he was/is a weird hikikomori

[@ronh3935]

thank you again for another great video Steve! You succeed in refuting most of these pieces of advice in a clear and compelling way by giving straightforward arguments.

[@annarboriter]

As a language tutor, I find that one-on-one tutoring can have drawbacks unless the student is highly motivated and already knows how to acquire languages. I much prefer to work with a pair of students who share the same motivation. There are also days when a student's mind cannot focus or is distracted. The tutor can then turn to the other student and still generate a productive learning session. I agree that carrying a dictionary doesn't help much; I do, however, think that it's very helpful to carry around a pocket-sized notebook for jotting words that I want to better study or know that are important to remember

[@learninglanguagesinput1590]

I feel this frustration when giving English lessons to corporate students. They have limited time to study and even though they do homework the night before the lesson, I feel like my job as a tutor is to somehow make sure they don't forget the basic vocabulary, such as use, want, make etc., which they can't acquire from their own input for some reason. Similarly, the lack of their time spent listening to the language shows when they are asked to read aloud. They can't get right the -ed endings of looked or passed, pronouncing it "look et", "pass et", some of them for as long as a year, despite being constantly corrected. Intonation or rhythm etc. is also nowhere. It makes me want to quit as it seems like my job is to desperately make them remember what they should normally acquire from reading and listening. I have experience learning German just from input, having started with LingQ and then gradually moving to KZbin. It is all the more frustrating, knowing they will never come even close to not my current level of German, but my level after the first 3 months with German unless they start doing input themselves. I tried to get them to LingQ, but without success. They have no time or believe in traditional language learning where it is the teacher's responsibility for them not to forget basic words. With other students, we have tried intensive drills of the 3 basic tenses and some of them, still after almost a year, still default to "I not finish my homework", instead of "I didn't finish my HW", despite drilling it for 30 minutes twice a week. We drill all the tenses, change verbs etc., and for all the grammatical tenses one of the guys feels the most natural sentence is "I not feel this."

[@annarboriter]

@@learninglanguagesinput1590 You cannot overcome the years that they spent practicing how to be obedient students in a teacher centered learning environment.

[@languagemaus8083]

@@learninglanguagesinput1590 maybe as a tutor you can give them homework that reaquire to listen/read a lot? Like reading a short story and then discuss it? That way they are forced to do more input and as a student I woudl actually find it nice becasue sometimes it´s hard to find the time or just need some accoutnability and support to be able to find the right content

[@garumsey8192]

​@@learninglanguagesinput1590Yep!

[@ochoax2628]

carrying a Dictionary whether it's online or physical book is a MUST!!. it's the only way to learn grammar. People are not used to using Dictionaries because they think it's BORING but that's not true.

[@LuzAngelafromLightSpanish]

Terrific advice as always. I appreciate how you emphasize the importance of finding what works for each individual. We often believe there is a single, definitive way to learn languages, but in reality, everyone gains confidence in their own unique way. Thank you once again, Steve!

[@AJeziorski1967]

Great video. I'm also a believer in high input as a priority early in the learning process. But I think that's related to the type of personality I have, and that's how I've been used to learning since my school days (I'm in my 50's, from the UK). After I'd been in Germany for about 18 months, feeling as if I was at about what you'd call B2 level, I met an American girl who had been in Germany for only six months and had arrived with no knowledge of the language at all. She was WAY better at holding conversations than I was, but she was also fearless about making mistakes - and she made a lot of them - while I was still falling behind in conversation, trying to structure my thoughts correctly. I guess she had the dual advantages of complete immersion (she was an au pair with a German family, while the work I was doing was predominantly in English) and a very extrovert personality. I suspect personality type is an important factor in choosing an effective learning approach.

[@craigyoung5696]

Steve, you always make language 👄💬 learning 🎓 so very simple ⬆️ for everyone 🙂 keep up with your great teachings ❤🙏🏻

[@evelisecarvalho8027]

Kudos to you, outstanding video. Gratitude from Brazil.

[@danam4536]

Thanks for this, Steve! Really validated the way I'm learning and the way I enjoy learning!

[@hijackbyejack1729]

lol thanks for giving Ilys a shoutout, norwegian is my target language and what few videos she has so far are phenomenal

[@senbonzakurakageyoshi662]

Thank you for this video, it made me understand better your technique (or method) and I think it will help me improve my English and learn Italian better!

[@DaniLopez432]

Thank you very much for your content.

[@nataliethomson240]

I have a problem with this guy. I followed his KZbin channel for a little while but then stopped as something about him really bothered me. So I find this video really interesting; I'm glad to hear someone critique him, as I think, perhaps, he's really full of himself or something. Grateful for your advice. Thank you.

[@soniacanelon7110]

Thank you, Steve! I love listening to your advice. I'm learning French now as my third language...

[@brianahoffman9622]

Different people's perspectives on language learning are always interesting to me. I find that my language partners often become friends and that in itself helps keep my motivation to learn the language very high. One of my exchange partners who became a good friend has made recordings and transcripts for me that I load into Lingq. These have turbo-charged my motivation and my learning. As an added bonus, since you learn what you study... now I understand my friend.

[@ubaldo014]

remember, everyone has different preferences and learning styles, so it's a good idea to try out different Apps to see which one works best for you. Good luck with your languages learning journey! Anyway, thanks a lot for the advice. Keep up the good work Steve Kaufman! 🙏❤

[@MuteObserver]

Thank-you for the perspective

[@Anaontiveros4128]

Congratulations on your gold plaque, I'm happy for you! I like your English fluency, it shows that you are well educated.

[@Eric-le3uu]

another great video, Steve

[@zeue]

Love you Steve❤❤

[@jennyg.6884]

I really enjoyed taking classes. I learned a lot.

[@quantus5875]

Fantastic video Steve as usual!! You have been the #1 biggest influence on me in my journey to learn Portuguese. Input is king!! Plus, I love reading -- so the input method really tends to work extremely well for me. I guesstimate that I have about a 3000-word vocab in Portuguese now and am finding that increasing my vocabulary at the same rate is much more difficult like you said due to word frequency. If you have any tips on that -- that would be great. Still making vocab gains but it is slowing down. First 1000 words like you said came really fast, without even doing much. Now the rate is slower. Another, video idea that would be interesting for someone to do is -- what does knowing a word mean? I have this model where you start not knowing the word, and then when you initially learn it is a "10" and then as you read more and encounter that word and use that word more -- it moves all the way -- ideally to a "1", i.e. complete mastery of the word. Where being a "1" on a word is actually tough to attain, could take years for some complicated words, that have multiple meanings and are used in many idiomatic expressions. This isn't a precise ranking, but maybe something maybe like this: Knowing a word levels: Inactive Vocabulary: 10 = When reading the word in context, maybe knowing what it means 9 = Reading a word in context and knowing what it means 9 = Listening to a word being spoken slowly and maybe knowing what it means 7 = Listening to a word being spoken slowly in context and knowing what it means 6 = Reading a written word. Just the word (no context) and knowing what it means 5.5 = Listening to a word being said slowly (no context) and knowing what it means Active Vocabulary: 5 = Being asked (in a language the learner know) what the word is in the target language, i.e. what is the Portuguese word for "chair". A: "cadeira" 4 = Being able to use the word in basic conversations in the target language. 3 = Being able to understand most of the uses of the word in reading 3 = Being able to understand the word when it is said quickly by someone (native speaking speed) 2 = Being able to use the word in advanced contexts and conversations 1 = Complete mastery of the word (spoken and written) and all of its meanings These rankings aren't absolute and to some people they may do the rankings different. Wondering if some language professor ever came up with this idea that there are levels of how well you know a word? My theory is then your vocab is always in different states you may know ~500 words at L4, ~1000 words at L5, and so on. And as you improve words keep moving with respect to how well you know them, L10 to hopefully L1 (and some might temporarily get worse -- if you don't see the word very often.) I guess this is a little bit about the idea behind "active" and "inactive" vocabulary taken a little further. Where in my ranking L10 to L6 is inactive vocab, and L5 to L1 is active vocabulary. Still, I am proposing that there are levels at which you know a word and I've got to imagine some academic wrote some research paper on this somewhere. Not a big help to language learning -- but I do think it reinforces and supports the idea of why input-based learning works so well.

[@edwin5419]

I learn languages because I love the sound of them, the way they feel and the way I feel when I'm immersed in them. Each language gives you different perspectives just by the way they've evolved

[@bebetterlanguagesessions]

Great tips Steve! I like to hear your opinion on language learning.

[@rayanrayan9167]

Great as usually ! رائع كالعادة استاذ . Best grettings from Kingdom of Morocco

[@ShameenYakubu]

Salam

[@deborahkamayanja5914]

I l9ved when you said something about learning the rhythm of the language!! It has always been part of me language philosophy, I had learnt french while young then lost my vocabulary when i moved to an English speaking country bout years later i was able to regain all french because i still had the French pronounce rhythm in my memory 🎉

[@KavilearnsSpanish]

I am learning Spanish now and want to learn atleast 20% of what Stephen knows. What a gem and a role model. Just watching your videos are pure motivation.

[@xpmedia8660]

I have dyslexia. But I had a bit of an unorthodox way of learning. I watched spanish movies, and I would watch for frequently used words and write them down. From there I just listened and watched the characters as they spoke and went back and forth. Then when I got a comprehension of the movies, I read books about the history of Mexico, Chile and Argentina. Eventually I tested my ability, with a Mexican woman, a Chilean and a girl from Argentina. All of which went well with a few errors here and there. Overall I just listened and read. But the movies definitely helped

[@diegogonzalo5544]

Hi Kavi, I'm a native Spanish speaker. I can help you practice Spanish if you want

[@LauraBCReyna]

1. I don't think learning vocabulary in context was mentioned... and I think it's very important. Basically, you should learn vocab words as part of sentences, not individually. 2. I use Google Translate most days. It's my main resource. I'm constantly translating text I come across online. According to the idea of Comprehensible Input, you need to understand quite a bit of the target lang you encounter in order to acquire it. 3. You need to spend a lot of time with the target lang in order to acquire it. If you're frustrated by the slowness of your learning, you're probably not spending enough time with the lang.

[@4himsanctified]

Input is so so important. Think of the hours you hear your native language even before birth and in the first year. I especially remember being able to converse with my youngest son (now 21), when he was 18 months old. Sure he had lots of gibberish, but I knew what it was. I will listen to Spanish and Italian simply to "tune my ear" to a "strange" language. With Spanish, I try to listen to different varieties from different regions/countries. I order to know how to say words and form sentences (rather than cold grammar), listening is so key.

[@marciosilva9537]

Como se diz aqui no Brasil, " Steve você é o cara! " Muito bom vídeo 👏👏

[@maximus6791]

O Steve é pica

[@tsakeboya]

I think the reasons why I became fluent in English were both the private tutoring i did for 7 years, and by far the most vocabulary and grammar structures I learned came from watching English content way before i even understood what "used to" meant. I think that experience has given me extremely valuable confidence in my language learning now.

[@user-od5mc3nt7f]

Were and where is confusing. Were is "what location" , where is used everyWHERE else lol

[@user-od5mc3nt7f]

Were are you, were was it.... where you happy?

[@altairibn-laahad6333]

It's the opposite actually Where is location Were is the plural form of was

[@user-od5mc3nt7f]

@@altairibn-laahad6333 classic. Ive been mixing it up for 20 years

[@edaguirre8952]

Thanks. Good as always.

[@nendoakuma7451]

The blog as I read it said that he downloaded a dictionary app onto his phone and that seems like a pretty great resource to carry arround in his pocket. I use online and downloaded dictionaries all the time. No matter how much preparation you have, you can't be prepared for situation. Occassionally I even have to look up the definition of words in my native language. Most of the other things you say I agree wholeheartedly with.

[@user-ml8ll3hm4p]

Thanks for the information

[@margedtrumper9325]

I agree conversation needs to firstly be guided by a professional trainer. Passive input is definitely something we have to pursue on our own and luckily today there is plenty of sources available for most languages. Anyway, after a decent level it's useful to have good options of conversation with native speakers who possibly cannot speak your language in order to force you to go beyond the active gap many learners face.

[@stephenadams6455]

Great video. I’m using LingQ to learn Norwegian and it’s been fun

[@annagorbunov3125]

I find that instead of having conversations from the get go, you can start to repeat the language as much as possible. Find something useful in your immersion (a word/a phrase/a sentence) and repeat that to yourself. You can both practice pronunciation (if speaking is your goal) and cement you knowledge. Later you can move to producing a language aka speaking and writing your own sentences.

[@philipmulville8218]

Excellent advice from Steve Kaufmann - he really understands the language acquisition process.

[@m.walker2693]

I don't think anything does come even close to beat out the efficiency of well done one on one tutoring. Your concentration and motivation simply is at its top if you are solely focused on learning together with a person that is giving you all their attention. With this in mind, lesson and classroom frameworks can be incredibly for a lot of people to set them up for successful study - language basics, materials, people that try to learn the same that you do. Especially at the beginning. Nice video by the way, it is interesting to listen to what others people think on those topics, even more so hearing the opinion of experienced language learners. And I very much agree: the most important thing to a language learner is motivation. So enjoying the process is mandatory.

[@PeterSmitGroningen]

I'd say these hours are the most efficient when in addition to those hours you have time to fool around, read or listen to things. Give yourself the opportunity to notice the things that you just learned, or notice that what you learned doesn't always apply the way you think it did. Your brain needs time and input. It feels inefficient when you start, but it will make things so much easier when you progress, because you don't have to think about "the base" of the language anymore. When that happens you have space in your head for explicit feedback again.

[@quantus5875]

1-to-1 tutoring is good however the problem with 1-to-1 tutoring is $$$. It's a great complement but still agree with Steve -- input all the way!! Everyone is different but I learn faster by reading. Yes, use a tutor a bit to complement but I believe you can save a ton of money by using input as your primary method and learn just as fast.

[@wolfthequarrelsome504]

I agree. Input is practice but limited to the receivers perception. Without a tutor your ability to pronounce words correctly is based on your own perception of how good (or otherwise) your ability is.

[@StillAliveAndKicking_]

That is true, however you cannot make a sound until you can hear that sound, and the only way to hear that sound is by listening a lot. If you can’t hear it, a teacher will struggle to teach you and you won’t retain it. I couldn’t hear the German word durch, it sounded like doysh, which is wrong, so I was unable to imitate a friend who spoke German to native level. Only with hours of listening have I started to hear the word correctly. I have found that the vowels are coming naturally as a result of ‘tuning’ my ears to the language. It was by sharing an office with a Scotsman that I learnt to do a passable comedy Scots accent. After all, children learn accents without a tutor.

[@StillAliveAndKicking_]

I am glad you said that one’s preferred approach is highly personal. As a language learner with B2 French and A2/B1 German, I tend to side with your approach. I feel uncomfortable speaking German because I can’t say much, and I haven’t mastered the case system. I don’t like group lessons, as I don’t want to hear British people speaking German with English grammar and English accent. I am a fan of the LingQ approach. One method not mentioned is listening to speech whilst reading the transcript, which of course is central to LingQ. That has made the biggest improvement to my French comprehension, to the extent that I can now understand most discussions on French podcasts for native speakers. Getting to that stage is in my view important, as it means that I can now listen to podcasts while driving, or doing my daily walk in the countryside, in order to reinforce existing knowledge. Language is so complex that it is only by massive input that we can achieve a deep understanding, rather than a superficial translation. I am starting to find that I use words more appropriately. Unlike you I like to talk to myself. It is a great way to work on the melody and accent of the language, and practice grammar. I often realise I cannot say something, so then I use Google translate to find the phrase. I also benefit from Anki, though I know you are not a fan. However, I generally put sentences into Anki so I learn words in context.

[@skrskr9000]

Tip 6 is so true.

[@rebeccahicks2392]

Classes were very important for me in getting started with languages. They didn't take me all the way to true fluency, but they gave me a good foundation, and, most of all, kept me accountable in terms of actually putting in the work on a regular basis. Yes, in 2023 with the wonders of the internet you can teach yourself, but it can be very easy to slack off without a teacher guiding you and holding you accountable.

[@paulwalther5237]

I can imagine conversations with 100 word vocabulary being limited to simple greetings and then saying something tastes good. Maybe you can say where you're from and ask where they're from. The conversation will effectively end very quickly. This can still be very motivating if it's your very first time trying to speak a language I suppose but I think the novelty wears off and you realize it's time to go study so that you can have more interesting conversations.

[@JohnnyLynnLee]

"After covering the first 500 words focus on being conversational." Dude, really, I don't think someone who think you can go even to the kindergarten and have "a conversation" with 500 words ever learned a language. Or if they did, they either are straight up lying or learned it so long ago they don't really remember it and are lying to themselves about how it was. 500 words are NOTHNG. Specially in a very different language than that of your native language or one you've mastered. In that case even 6,000 words (like the core 6K deck for Japanese) is NOTHING to have even a basic adult conversation. It's just a solid foundation. In closer languages 6 thousands is a LOT, because you get a lot of what I call "free words". But you still can't talk about most topics of an educated adult. You can't even UDNERSTAND it, let alone talk about it. 500 words is a joke. It's not even the start. 100 you still understand ZERO when you are watching or reading something.

[@tohaason]

Learning 100 words (or 500 or 1000) as translations is a bad joke. For many reasons. One I mentioned in another comment is that except for very simple nouns like dog and cat there's not much point. Verbs can't just be translated and then used as if it were one's native language. The outlined approach would only work if every language were the same just using different words for the same thing and concept, i.e. word-for-word translations. And languages aren't like that. Not even languages as close as the Scandinavian languages. Heck, not even between dialects..) What I did when I was travelling here and there when I was young (for work and other purposes) was the tourist way.. I used a couple of different types of Berlitz guides, with phrases. That was enough to let me survive in restaurants etc. for the weeks or months I would be in a place, where people didn't speak a word of English. Studied the phrases, figured out what kind of replies could be expected (again, from the phrase books), which made it possible for me to phone up hotels if I needed another place to stay, for example. It was enough to get by, and by listening (whenever I was around people) and reading every day I started to learn, and eventually became able to manage daily things reasonably problem free. But memorizing word lists? That would have been totally useless. Phrases (under those circumstances, mind) were useful. Not word lists.

[@stijn3085]

@@JohnnyLynnLee > 6,000 words is NOTHING to have even a basic adult conversation. This take is completely insane. How many unique words do you think adults use in a basic conversation? Hell, how many unique words do you think people use in an entire day?

[@JohnnyLynnLee]

@@stijn3085 20,000 to 30,000 in English. We have actual research on it. Educated adults do talk about economy, they talk about inflation, unemployment. Educated adults to talk about crime and red news about crimes, they know about prosecutors, alibis, plea bargain. Educated adults watch he news and can UNDERSTAND 100% a news broadcast, not just a few words.

[@JohnnyLynnLee]

@@stijn3085 Here's tip. Knowing a language IS NOT when natives stop what they are doing to talk t you like they would with a foreigner. Knowing a language is where there's 2 natives talking abut something and you barge in the conversation and they CONTINUE to debate with you in their native language, not switching to English. Like I'm doing here now with English, which is not my native language. Try that with 6,000 words. They will reply in ENGLISH. That's a good test. Get in the middle of a heated debate, DISAGREE with someone and see if they just continue the debate. That's different form a native drilling with you.

[@ThePeacefulRulerOfRaspberries]

When I saw the highlights in small 1-5 second segments at the very start of your video, I didn’t think that you would have any good advice but in the spirit of fully hearing out things I may not agree with initially ,, I watched your video and enjoyed it. (Great hook) Very good points, not agreeing with all but I like how you pointed out something I never was able to say concisely although I had similar thoughts: we tend do use the words we know more often then ask for how to say words. Great video God bless

[@town944folk]

What do you disagree with?

[@hunnerdayEDT]

I learned Japanese through immersion, which was easy since I lived there. TBF, I understood & could read it but I couldn't speak. As for German, I concentrated on books & CDs. I listened to German music in a favorite genre & watched German movies. I got to the point where I was dreaming in German. I never got to use the German I learned because my trip to Munich was canceled due to 9/11. I still remember the German alphabet song 20 years later.

[@raymondblake5765]

When i have learned new languages i definitely spent a lot of time talking in my head in the language... And also speaking the language out loud with my self.

[@GermanGuru-rd3gf]

My two cents, maybe a bit straightforward but crucial: To get better at talking, talk more. For reading, read lots. And for grammar, do some grammar stuff regularly. Match your learning to your goals, and you'll see improvement!

[@Thelinguist]

It doesn't quite work that way. These skills are all interrelated. Yes to improve speaking you need to speak a lot but you need vocabulary and comprehension to have meaningful conversations. No guarantee that just focusing on grammar will improve your usage accuracy. Input is the key in my view.

[@quantus5875]

Totally agree with Steve. Steve isn't saying don't speak. He's saying get your vocab to a good level through input and when you do start speaking the going will be much easier for you. I've seen some of the people that propose the speak first philosophy yeah and they can say a few basic phrases ok -- and yeah that's where it ends. 😂

[@GermanGuru-rd3gf]

​@@Thelinguist Worldwide, many immigrants speak well, though they may make grammar mistakes, yet they struggle to read a simple fairy tale without a dictionary. Personally, I've achieved decent proficiency in grammar and vocabulary across multiple languages, but spontaneous speaking poses a challenge due to inconsistent practice. Despite being more advanced in grammar and vocabulary, I still face difficulties in spontaneous speech. However, I believe prioritizing it will result in rapid improvement. I think that aspects like grammar, vocabulary, and communication can be developed independently. Yes, they are interrelated, yet communication doesn't demand an extensive vocabulary or flawless grammar. It's about expressing thoughts spontaneously with a limited vocabulary and using common phrases.

[@defqqq]

Mark forgot tip #26: When giving advice, stick to what you're good at and don't pretend you know everything about everything just because you're moderately famous. Unfortunately for his admireres, though, Mark grew too big for his britches and I don't think he gives a f*

[@RM-jb2bv]

He’s a terd

[@quantus5875]

I think Mark just remembers all the things he did, and he learned is target language to a level he was happy with. What he doesn't remember is probably that some of these things he listed probably didn't really work, and it's the other ideas he had that did work. I think the dating someone in the target language thing is funny. Every woman that I've ever dated that spoke a different target language -- does NOT want to be your tutor! Friends too. They do NOT want to be tutors. 🤣 If you want a tutor Steve gives the absolute best advice -- you're better off paying someone $10, $12, $15, $20 bucks an hour for tutoring and conversation practice. They are motivated because you are paying them. Use "input" like Steve recommends and then pay someone to augment your learning (for me this would be mostly speaking practice after I had amassed a good vocabulary first -- to save cash 🙂. Friends, relatives, family, they don't want to tutor you! Well, if you pay them maybe. 😂 I also think a few of his suggestions were based in the fact, that he was living in the target language country. Some of his recommendations definitely do not apply if you are not in a place where you can benefit from some immersion (and make more sense if you can benefit from some immersion).

[@town944folk]

I read the blog article today. Solid advice I think. You cannot cover every possible angle. I don't think he's suggesting using his way as the only way. Ofcourse Steve and his followers tend to get to 5000 lingqs through reading and listening and that's okay too. I'm not sure I understand the criticism for this chap and where it's coming from

[@quantus5875]

@@town944folk You are right that in the end this is a video where Steve (a linguist as I dislike the word polyglot) is giving his opinions of a blog written by someone who learned some Spanish while living in Buenos Aires for a while and giving his tips (opinions). I've read the blog as well and IMO half of the items are good and half are not, where IMO I've found that Steve's opinions/advice is excellent. btw: my comment wasn't meant to be negative -- @defqqq's was -- I just think the guy gave half good advice and half bad advice.

[@SuperSZ]

I'm a native spanish speaker, and I started learning english since I was a young kid. I really hated it. It wasn't until KZbin started being popular that I started to really use english; it really opened up the possibilities of interesting contents that I could watch (even more in the 2007s). I don't know if I "like" english now, but I do find it extremely useful.

[@bartmaas437]

I know this video is old (in KZbin years) but I still wated to give you a response. I wholeheartedly agree with your advice on broadening your horizon beyond conversation. I’m a native Dutch speaker, and as such not surrounded by that many English speakers. However we get English lessons in school from around the age of ten till we leave our version of high school. Depending on the type that is at 16 to 18. That gave me the basics of grammar and a few hundred words to play with. However we have a lot of English media with subtitles (cause voiceovers are expensive). So you hear a lot of English while at the same time reading your own language. Also I’m an avid reader of Fantasy and Science Fiction, and in general the Dutch are more readers and writers of what my mother in law calls ‘real’ stories. So for that fantastical element in my reading I needed to turn to books written by English and American authors. Being from a reasonably poor family I quickly found out untranslated English books were cheaper to buy. I was tested last week for work on my English skills and had about a C1 level. So absorbing a language without speaking it much does work. My accent may be very Dutch, but I have the confidence I know what the other person is saying and I can respond adequately. Or even post a comment under a video on KZbin.

[@zeppelinmexicano]

Using conversation as the main tool could work if you have a very close friend or spouse who will dedicate their time to your learning process. Very difficult for most of us to replicate that. For most of us input is what matters, and I've found that listening to all kinds of content on KZbin, and reading books that truly interest me absolutely expand my vocabulary. More than that they expand my collection of expressions, which are really the HOWs of how a language is used by real speakers.

[@TWolf317]

I read Mark Manson's book on his life philosophy and thoroughly enjoyed it. I still follow him online. But writing a best-seller doesn't make one an expert on everything. And frankly I don't see the point of speaking before you actually have something to say. And for me that means a vocabulary of several thousand words. And those words are best acquired with input.

[@amiwan9596]

Steve as solid first principles

[@LanguageswithErman]

Inspiring...

[@estrafalario5612]

12:00 Probably the most important point in my opinion. Failing to address it IS a BIG thing!

[@theymademepickaname1248]

For me number 4 is not important. I don't have a clear reason for studying Spanish other than I enjoy it, and I've always wanted to learn another language. I'm motivated when my comprehension improves.

[@Demondzeta]

yes, showing off is actually a pretty good motive and the most common

[@theymademepickaname1248]

@@Demondzeta I have no one to impress. Plus there are so many people that are bilingual with English and Spanish, so it's not a big deal.

[@Demondzeta]

I'm not @@theymademepickaname1248saying is neccesarily your case. Just that it is not a bad motive to do so, and is pretty common, I wish you good luck in your learning journey

[@bilbowaggins3036]

Enjoying it is a valid reason

[@rafalkaminski6389]

Thank you for your take, what language are you working now? Have you made an example video how you learn? languages

[@booooo8607]

Well as I’m learning a complete new language,I agree with you more, the path is different for everyone, but you are right on the principle level. Communication is not that important when you got nothing to say, then random small talk and business conversations never helps in advance level. And it’s ridiculous to suggest dating. 😅

[@cpnlsn88]

Language consists of two things. Good comprehension and comfortable input. With these a non-native can comfortably navigate many, possibly most situations. The vocab for self introduction is fairly simple and can be repeated to enhance confidence. Some situations will throw you, like an unusual accent or unusual subject matter. Most conversation isn't precise and informational. It's a way of spending time with another human being. And there are conversational devices to acknowledge someone's point of view or express some doubt. Like you're not on the stand! Most native speakers are kind and want to help you out by slowing like slowing down, repeating, giving you a bit more time to answer and using simpler vocab. Drilling these basic phrases can be a life saver. Key is to drop your anxiety and enjoy the interaction. The main enemy of speaking a new language is anxiety and fear of looking like a twerp.

[@jdb6026]

Everybody has different experiences, preferences, and ways in which learning/acquiring a language can be effective. A lot of what Steve shares applies to me, but half of them don't, and that's okay. I used to revere Steve as the epitome of what a learner should be and that I should follow only what he says is effective. However, I have come to realize that should not be the case. Yes, I carry a "pocket dictionary," but I only began using it after I had become rather fluent in the language I use the dictionary for. I might not be able to memorize the vocabulary I pick up, but I become aware of it and eventually incorporate it into my speech when relevant. In my experience, input is very important; however, most of the languages I learned after my first two do not have a corpus where native speakers actually write in their respective language properly; everything is usually misspelled and grammatically wrong or deviant/very informal. Listening is the only way to go. Nevertheless, listening input has made it easier for me to catch the different inflections and intonations, which in turn really helps in making you feel and seem more fluent than you actually are. When I was learning, speaking in my target languages as soon as possible made it easier for me to remember words and grammar because I actually make use of what I learn right away. I'm lucky to be in a place where the languages I learn can be code-switched with two or more languages at a time, so applying what I learn was very easy for me. Lastly, speaking to myself and/or speaking in my head has helped me TREMENDOUSLY, especially in languages where native speakers are very inaccessible. I need to remind myself that Steve has his own situation and I have my own. He is privileged enough to, I assume, be learning languages that have a "proper" corpus and also have auditory media; I do not. I just hope that he can become more neutral in his approach to different learning styles. Sure, there are people out there who are learning languages that make it easier to apply his style to, but there are also people like me who have a different situation.

[@SupremeDP]

#21 missin' the *Mark* by a landmile. Hah.

[@DanielleBaylor]

I find myself naturally repeating words I've learned in my head, or when I remember the translation of a word i translate it.

[@dtcharo]

I've found reading and listening the best thing to focus on when learning a language early on. The only use I found for speaking was if the language was tonal. If it's stress based languages or languages with pitch accents aren't as important to speak like a native. For example, with Japanese, you can get the pitch accent completely wrong but likely be understood due to context. With Chinese, if you don't use the proper tones it goes downhill very quickly because it's tonal. Reading helps you learn language in context and listening helps with word recognition. With modern technology, I'd say it's helpful to be able to type in your foreign language as well. With Chinese, you may not be to write Chinese characters but if you can use pinyin with a Chinese IME you'll be able to write relatively well so long as you can read what you're typing.

[@ojgfhuebsrnvn2781]

So true about classes as waste of time. Indeed 1-no-1 is way to go if you can afford it. If you can't, don't bother with classes. I like to study grammar so i sometimes can know quite a lot about language but don't speak a thing. However my first language was Polish (and i am ukrainian, so this isn't supposed to be very different in term of how language work). I was a teenager back then and i went to polish courses (5 people group). First 2 lessons (alphabet, pronunciation and basic conjugations) were really usefull (i could learn it by myself but i still liked that classes). And then it was just going sooooo sloooow. I felt like they meant to get A1 in first year of study. I dropped it, took a freaking textbook, read it in one-two weeks and all i left to do is to practice speaking (i did when i studied university there). Same for english, but i realized this is too slow much faster and quit after two weeks (though self-study is not without drawbacks as i have problems with writing in English). While i am having trouble to improve my English now, it's been 4 years and i still speak much better than any person that finished 1 year course.... Practising in my head is something i do and i cannot stop doing it. In fact I think it's the best tool that helps me the most. I just keep thinking about these different phrases and ask myself why are they like this and what would mean if i change this thing, would it make sense or maybe it changes the tone or even create new words from the words i know.THE BEST TOOL, but i guess it depends on people and we just predisposed to different techniques I would suggest finding partner for studying that isn't native to the target language and doesn't speak your language. This way you start communication from caveman conversations (check any word you want in google) but progress over time (this really helped me with english when i lived with Turkish guy in a dorm). If partner speak your language you won't speak target language much and will switch back to native often for explanations. If partner is native to target language it will be too difficult for you (and it's difficult to find native speaker who is willing to teach you). Yeah, after learning English this is indeed bad advice though (i had video on pause just before this point)

[@cornstar1253]

Im learning to read write and speak punjabi. Just to show off. Over one year into it. Very challenging for me as english is my only language. Im figuring this may take me a few years before attempting a conversation.

[@ungarischfsikurs743]

Nr 22 is so important! I'm currently searching for learning partners. I want to improve my English skills, and I really like helping people with their German skills. But most of the people who contacted me weren't even on a a basic level of German. I'm a native German speaker, but I'm not a German teacher. I'm unequipped to teach somebody German who doesn't understand basic sentences and is at the very beginning. And my time is too valuable for that kind of teaching to do it for free, that's another important point to me. Yes, helping others to get better in their target languages is a lot of fun! But teaching them basic knowledge and the simplest grammar and most basic vocabulary because they only just can write a "Hallo" as a greeting, that's too much asked. You definitely need a certan level of comprehension and knowledge in your target language so that a native speaker, who isn't a teacher with teaching materials at hand, can support you.

[@nakazonegamestreaming896]

One thing is sure, time invested is of essence!

[@jobinuw]

Este sujeto es un genio. Me parece que todas las personas que están comenzando a estudiar una lengua extranjera deberían pasar por acá.

[@Languagebeta]

I'm at a B1 in Mandarin

[@mikeoxfat6081]

My favorite thing is to put every new word that pops up of the day in my app in my flash cards. After a while my compression will increase

[@ivankaramasov]

I agree with almost everything said here, and it confirms that the way I have practiced myself is sound. I think that focusing on conversation too early is detrimental. Also, advice like learning the most common 100 words is just nonsensical. A lot of listening and reading at the right level is key for absorbing the language organically.

[@ibersia]

One really important thing is to learn how you should place your tongue in your mouth. For example, in Spanish and English the position is very different. To learn how to place the tongue how English people helps Spanish people to pronounce, that is one of most usually difficult things to learn English and it can be easy.

[@tommyhuffman7499]

I've learned mostly through tutors with many of them being professional tutors and many being random people. Most often I prefer the random people. The conversation tends to flow better. Professional tutors often want to hijack the lesson and cover their material. Professional tutors also translate more. A random speaker who doesn't speak English and is a good conversationalist is best.

[@ethanpunto9222]

A problem i have is i spend more time watching/reading content on how to learn a language than i do learning said language

[@alvarobarcala]

I feel totally identified with your enthusiasm for languages, and I actually agree with almost 100% of things you say. I spent many years studying different languages and enjoying it very much (and naturally learning how to learn). Though it got a point in which I decided (again, naturally) to focus on just one language, Russian. It is as if my brain was asking for that, and because after many years I started to feel as "divagating", or in a cloud, without actually commanding for real a language (which would allow me to get deep into the culture for real, in literature, deep conversations, everyday life, etc, instead of just "getting by" more or less with occasional real communication). Or perhaps I simply got profoundly in love with Russian and left all the rest... to actually know Russian. Before this happened I thought that my command on Russian and other languages was fine, even very good, I thought it was ok to make mistakes, and just having fun. But when I actually focused only on Russian, I realised I barely knew the language, and by "knowing" I don't mean "not making mistakes" (they will always be there), I mean to actually being able of having all kind of conversations, even deep and long, reading literature properly, etc. I realised that when I was a polyglot, and the polyglots I know, you get stuck in the same kind of "fluent-though-basic" conversations, using always the same vocabulary and structure, and improving such things just within that context, plus feeling your are doing good (what you actually develop this way is the skill of being kind of fluent with not so much knowledge), and with that you even give the impression to native people that you kind of command the language... but only in the fisrt-second occasion you talk with them, because in such occasions everyone uses the same standard conversations... and that's it! nothing beyond that. When I started to focus on one language, I started to discover the pleasure of actually getting beyond that pattern, and started to discover how pleasant and transforming is to get deep into the language (and that actually the challenges you come across in that "getting deeper" are even more diverse than when learning many languages, because the challenges of reaching basic-medium level are more or less the same thing in all languages). I'm not saying learning just one language, but deep, is better than kind of learning many, both things are a great experience. I'm just saying my experience. Btw, it is so true that learning the "most common 100 words" is useless! you get into a very limiting loop doing that and getting into a mindset that makes the learning clumpsy. I just read and read and read, and listen and listen and listen, checking meanings but not forcing myself too much to memorise them: and you find out that after reading and listening the words and structures thousands of times, in constant different contexts, you have memorised them naturally, and they come to your mouth-conversations not even realising about it. And the most important for me: messaging with native friends in social media, even if using google translation, and then, afterwards, everyday picking one of two paragraphs from those messages and studying them deeply (wether they have simple or complex words): such messages are personal, and have personal emotions and thoughts... so you memorise and internalise them all super easily, because the theme and what is said is really important to you, plus all those words get in your mind within a context (which is the better way to memorise them and use them fluently). In any case, I catch up with other languages, now and then, to "taste" them a bit, but keeping always most of my energy, space and time always on Russian. Thanks for your amazing videos and your inspiring personality!

[@squaretriangle9208]

I think you make very valuable points especially with the polyglotts' limitations

[@F.U.E.L]

I don't speak English at all but i think i have sufficient vocabulary to speak And no one around me ever spoke English therefore it was useless to speak Now, i just write and use it to text Message and thats it I love comedy and in my country i don't find relatable comedian or funny comedians or good shows That i actually like to watch thats English is enjoyable to me in this way I started watching podcast and shows it broadened my sense of understanding! Now i want to learn Russian but im having trouble because i would have to find the shows and right people that i want to watch And im being nitpicky about it

[@palomavega1263]

I barely practiced Portuguese only heard it and was around it for so long that after a while I just started speaking out of the blue just cause my mind had a lot of input and expressions in its memory. Speaking right from the very start would not be an approach for everyone if you yourself are a shy not too talkative person afraid of saying the wrong thing I don't think this would work

[@Languagebeta]

All I do to learn a language is listening to music and podcasts in the target language, reading in the language in my free time, writing down a word in 1 notebook, and a setnce using the word in another notebook, then I also talk to people using the language online

[@andyhare8250]

I think the other guy's goal is, to use a metaphor, to be able to play a good-sounding improvised guitar solo in a style or mode you aren't used to in a short amount of time. To that end, he's right that no amount of listening can replace the time you spend with the guitar in your hands. The problem with the very premise behind having that as your goal is, communication is not a player and an audience, but rather two players negotiating meaning (even in their first language). Also, I'm in the same camp of: I want it to sound natural. My end goal is to be able to talk to someone on the phone and have them be none the wiser that I'm not a fellow native speaker of their language. (Easier to do if you're a musician and have the ear for foreign accents.) To that end, input is the most important because imitation is the most important.

[@zacharystewart4394]

My thoughts on classes (in my case, with Japanese at a language school in Japan): -Pros: For the teacher/student ratio, 1 Sensei:8 (at most) Students and I feel fine with that. It feels like anymore would be a bit of a hindrance but I'd say ideally 1:6 is what I've enjoyed the most. Also, having multiple Japanese people teaching us means that we can ask about their specific dialects and social nuance to the grammar. Japanese has a TON of nuance in it's grammar because that's how they express feeling/emotion (as opposed to English where tone and facial expression/body language are much more involved). Because I wanted to live in Japan at the same time, the school also helps a ton with contacting government services or offices and coordinated our visas. -Cons: Sarting at complete beginner level with class was sort of painful because I had looked ahead and each day for 4 hours it was a lot of boring repetition like "this is that" "that is this" and also they were (imo) spent way too much time and were way too concerned with our katakana/hiragana strokes when they were already clearly legible (and some Senseis' writing looked like chickenscratch). While it's a personal pro for me, it depends on your home country but, the Japanese Yen is rather weak to the USD so school was not expensive at all but if you come from a country where the Yen is much stronger, then this can be a difficulty. In conclusion, I would agree and disagree with the advice. I think language schools are great if you want to live/work in that country. They can really ease the visa/entry process into said country and also provide you with a resource to get language assistance when contacting businesses/paying utilities/making appointments/etc. Also, I think it's best to enter a language school with a small Student to Teacher ratio. Too many students and you don't get the focus you should. You should enter at a level where you're expected to already have the base level vocab (i.e. 1000 most common spoken words) and sentence structure memorized. That way you can hit the ground running. However, if you're just wanting to learn a language and don't intend on going to said country, then you can find cheaper methods to learn.

[@kleo_konekochan]

i learned english to a native passing level by obsessing about all input and material and comprehension and repetition and conversation by myself and with others

[@RM-jb2bv]

Classroom instruction and grammar lessons are underrated, especially in the beginning. It’s more efficient than input based and gives you a broad framework to build upon.

[@defqqq]

Classroom instruction and grammar lessons are overrated, especially in the beginning. It creates an illusion of being more efficient than input based, but gives you a broad framework of bad habits, bad accent, terrible pronunciationa and in many cases, puts people off learnng languages for life.

[@snowbird7254]

​@@defqqqseems like youre salty about grammar, i think if you had a better mindset about it it wouldnt be so bad for you

[@defqqq]

@@snowbird7254 I'm not at all salty about grammar, I like grammar and always have. I just believe that the way traditional language learning works in a classroom setting could be very much improved by adopting a different paradigm. Less studying, more acquiring.

[@lucassantossj]

​@@defqqqfunny thing is that back in the day there were more effective ways to learn in classroom, like drills. You learn grammar, not the concepts, but the execution.

[@stijn3085]

How.. how are they underrated, though? That's the main way languages are taught to people today.

[@squaretriangle9208]

The classroom experience is good if you are a competitive learner

[@tedcrowley6080]

The "most common words" is useless. I try to talk to someone in Spanish (I know 1500 words or more) and I quickly run into a word I don't know. Most common sentences do not consist of ONLY the most common words -- in any language.

[@delete0y]

Yeah.I'm done explaining to boneheads that 1000 words are not 70% of the language

[@JohnnyLynnLee]

"After covering the first 500 words focus on being conversational." Dude, really, I don't think someone who think you can go even to the kindergarten and have "a conversation" with 500 words ever learned a language. Or if they did, they either are straight up lying or learned it so long ago they don't really remember it and are lying to themselves about how it was. 500 words are NOTHNG. Specially in a very different language than that of your native language or one you've mastered. In that case even 6,000 words (like the core 6K deck for Japanese) is NOTHING to have even a basic adult conversation. It's just a solid foundation. In closer languages 6 thousands is a LOT, because you get a lot of what I call "free words". You case with Spanish. But you still can't talk about most topics of an educated adult. You can't even UDNERSTAND it, let alone talk about it. 500 words is a joke. It's not even the start.

[@Honeykosare]

Input is as much useful as output ! Shadowing does work and its the most important aspect of learning Asian languages!

[@miraichampion3366]

The tip 1 of "conversation conversation conversation" also doesn't rock with me. I've heard input being compared to rolling the snowball to make it bigger and output being the patting it down, its makes it look more like a real snowball, a finished article, but you need the snow first.

[@paulwalther5237]

I find learning grammar in a group is really helpful. Studying it on my own or even with a tutor one on one is painful. But try to find group lessons that fit your schedule past the beginner level. It's not happening. I guess I really like group lessons or classes when I'm a beginner or lower intermediate because studying on my own is so exhausting and boring. But once reading and listening become a bit comprehensible, this changes a lot. Then I feel like being in a class or group holds me back and I'm better of going off somewhere to read a book.

[@kenrose2523]

I'm going to have to disagree with the video regarding studying in the classroom/group study. The effectiveness of studying on your own vs classroom study is dependent of other factors. Studying in a classroom in itself is not bad and it's somewhat foolish to completely dismiss it, generalizing it as so.

[@confidencemagnet1026]

@@kenrose2523 I think they're talking about the way school teaches a second language. Maybe elementary and high school. School doesn't tell you to watch or listen to the language at home and on your own. They focus on the stuff in the classroom like grammar, greetings, numbers, and the months of the year. They don't show you how to read a book in your target language so you can have a high level of input to be able to understand what is said and have the words to express your own thoughts and ideas. I learned the most Spanish on my own. I learned even more when I incorporated reading and listening to it for hours a day.

[@kenrose2523]

@@confidencemagnet1026 My point exactly, it's the way it's taught/how's it's executed; not necessarily the method itself. Yes, you can accomplish a lot on your own, but you can also make a lot of mistakes on your own too. You need correction, you need feedback, interaction and you need linguistic awareness. It doesn't necessarily have to be a classroom setting but some kind of group/social setting is necessary(you don't even have to commute for that; there are plenty of virtual groups/classrooms you can join)

[@confidencemagnet1026]

@@kenrose2523 I will say a lot of reading novels and graded readers are overlooked. Using apps like LinQ and Kindle Unlimited helps a lot because you can get a quick definition without referring to a dictionary. For certain expressions, it's good to do an online search on the meaning if the app doesn't recognize it

[@kkarx]

How I learn to comprehend a new language listening YT videos after learning basics. 1. Find a 1 minute long video abou a topic you are interesting in. Start the video. Stop it after several words and try to comprehend the words. Your brain needs time to find the words you already know. If you did not comprehend then go back using left arrow and try again. If you can't figure it out yourself then use YT subtitles. It might be a new word but it might be also a word you already know but your brain was not able to match it. Replay the segment again. 2. Find the new words in a dictionary. If there are too many unknown words or if it is too difficult then with the help of subtitles write the entire 1 minute video down and copy the text into google translate. Divide the article into sentences. Under each sentence copy its translation so its next to each other. Find the new words and write them down under each sentece. 3. Now you know what the article is about. Play the video once more and read the senteces out loud. 1 min video might take you even 30 minutes but you will train everything. Listening, writing and pronouciation and it will be very beneficial. After few months you will comprehend a lot.

[@karstenpurdie9802]

I guess everyone is different. When I did a level French, we had a lad join our course in the 2nd year, who'd lived in France for 6 months, and was pretty much fluent, but couldn't write the language as it all had been verbal. He was way ahead than any of us, who'd been learning all the correct grammar and articles

[@town944folk]

Do you speak French now?

[@Languagebeta]

I have been learning Taiwanese Mandarin for a year, because I want to go to Taiwan, I am interested in the culture, and I like Chinese music

[@v.m.8472]

3 hours a day, one on one with a teacher. Ideal and expensive. Now though you can create a less ideal version by going online or listening to a television program without subtitles.

[@quantus5875]

If you can spend 3 hours a day reading and watching movies (although I recommend subtitles in the target language to start), you will learn fast if you can stay motivated. Keep rocking it!

[@gamingwithpurg3anarchy157]

I wish I had a Brazilian girlfriend... I'd ROCKET through the language. The motivation that I would get from that... I've been learning for 2 years and still haven't had a chance to speak.. and so my listening comprehension is also bad. But if I had to have it for a relationship 😍 fluent within the next year I think

[@JohnnyLynnLee]

I'm Brazilian and I can maybe help you. And I'm serious.

[@quantus5875]

Believe me girlfriends will NOT want to tutor you. Sure, they may teach you a few words - but it is not enjoyable to tutor someone. I advise getting pretty decent through "input" and later maybe augmenting your learning by paying a tutor like $12 to $15 bucks an hour. The tutor is motivated because they are being paid. 😂

[@gamingwithpurg3anarchy157]

@@quantus5875 did I say to tutor me? Since this post I've had a conversation on the phone. I know if I had a Brazilian GF I could communicate and learn QUICKLY.

[@lorrainegatanianhits8331]

In the debate of comprehensible input vs. traditional studying, we should just ask ourselves the question of how it is even possible for native speakers to have learnt a language without grammar, vocabulary lists and tutors? Obviously traditional studying has never led to any native understanding of any language. It only perfected it a bit. So how is there even a debate?