Porsche 944 - Differences Between a Euro and a US Spec 944

[@pablopicaro7649]

6:45 on my 944 I add an additional bulb holder in lower middle reflector area. and wire it to brake light power, to give more brake light illumination (it is pretty week brightness on US version)

[@diegohorton869]

I’ll get my 944 soon, it’s what I was wanting but my 928 showed up first.

[@RegionalRadioShackManager]

Wow I learned a lot in this video thanks

[@edredas]

No problem! Thanks!

[@TheTr0uble]

Hey Brent, I’ll keep you updated, I’m in the process of Supercharging my 944 with SpeedForceRacing’s 944kit…..Stage 2…

[@Martin944turbo]

I just bought a 1989 944 Turbo and the community referred me to you :) Looking forward to learning!

[@captaincoyote1792]

Fog lights on the rear end of the euro? That was new to me, but it makes so much sense. Your knowledge and expertise regarding these cars is an invaluable resource….and as a long time owner of a ‘90 S2 Cabriolet, I find them incredibly entertaining! Thank you, sir!

[@pablopicaro7649]

On my 951 (Turbos) I add the front aux driving light reflectors and H3 bulb, have converted reflectors from generic driving light kits, then wire them up same as Euro Spec cars are. Including mods to the Dongle in fuse box.

[@Dirks_NUMA_Files]

I really like the look of the extra driving lights in the euro front bumper. I never knew there was a fog light for the rear tail lights (Euro)

[@Porschee944]

Nice to see new video

[@ScottMcEwen1]

Love this channel. Great info. Thanks! 1987 944S here

[@edredas]

Awesome! An '87 S model just arrived here yesterday for some maintenance!

[@ScottMcEwen1]

@@edredas Can the 2.5 single overhead cam engine be directly replaced with a 2.5 twin cam engine from an 944S? Need to change computers? thanks

[@edredas]

@@ScottMcEwen1 You need the entire wiring harness and computer. I hope that helps!

[@ScottMcEwen1]

@@edredas Yes, it does, Thanks Brent

[@metelegerald]

Excellent info!!! Thanks Brent!

[@edredas]

Thanks!

[@jaappesman7899]

Never knew about the differences in the rear lights and final gear ratio. Have to say I find even the final ratio in the US spec car quite short for going fast on the highway. I'm in Europe but I imported a US spec '84 (february) 944 in 2018. I actually like the rear bumper a bit better (unlike most US spec German cars of the era) and don't mind the front bumper. Only 'difficulty' was to install the 'city lights/parking lights' that are required by law here. The Eurospec car has those in the small lights in the front bumper, but as the US spec car doesn't have those, I needed to install them in de headlights. Ultimately used a set of Golf I lights for this. I use the car more or less as a 'daily' except in winter. Still going strong and lots of fun. Quite a view of the transaxle Porsches here are US spec models cause they were sold in much greater numbers in the US at the time.

[@edredas]

Awesome! I think a lot of US guys covet the Euro models because they had no side-markers and a bit more power. Is it the same for Europe since the US models since they look a little different and often had more amenities?

[@nickthompson318]

Finally after all these years I know how to pronounce edredas

[@Irelius]

This was a great video comparing the differences between the 2 cars, as a US spec 1988 944s owner I found this really informational and now I got some great ideas of mods I’d like to try on it. Thanks for the cool vid. You got my subscription!!

[@edredas]

Awesome! Thanks!

[@Chrisovideos]

I painstakingly sourced the fiberglass front and rear bumpers for my '84. Hardest pieces to find are the bumper fog lights. I made mine into daytime running lights. Great improvement in the look although as you mentioned, indeed they are much more vulnerable in the event of an impact. Another mod I did was to change out the cone covers on the instruments to flat ones. I sourced the white '87 924 instruments for the swap. Much better look IMO. More of an early 911 look

[@adammork7171]

Wow this is the video I needed to see ! Just bought a euro built, US delivery 944, cool to know the differences.

[@edredas]

Awesome! We have a Facebook group. I would love to see pictures!

[@edvinkennas4951]

Im in Sweden, the first 944 i looked at was one sold in Sweden and I was amazed about how much of a difference those extra 40hp from my previous 924 made. Then I looked at an 944 imported from the US and it felt like my 924.. not so fast. But I ended up with the US one.

[@platinmetallic3797]

Great video!

[@edredas]

Thanks!

[@michaelhasse2568]

I'm like you, I picked a car 20ish years ago & stuck w it. I daily drive a 83 shelby charger, nearing 400 k miles & it's immaculate. I also have a 85 shelby charger w/ approx 350 horsepower

[@a.h.9663]

Excellent as always brother!

[@edredas]

Thanks!

[@edvinkennas4951]

My 944 imported from the US also have those side blinkers as you have on the Europe model.

[@randomsnowfall]

I had an early model 924 as my 1st car...25 years ago , call it a midlife crisis if you will but I just purchased an 87 924s it has some issues but over all a good driver. I sure I well get a bunch of tips from your videos.

[@artmchugh5644]

While we are talking 924 s !!! You may enjoy my wife's car !!!!😀😀😀😀🚘🚘🚘🍺🍺🍺🍺 kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4bJm6yGm7N0qdU cheers !!!

[@donaljamescaddye3805]

Great comparison ! The UK cars in 86 to 88 had "dim dip" to stop you driving on the sidelights - as soon as the engine was started and the sidelights were on the dip would be on at around 65% ! The headlights would pop up with the sidelights - We ended up sorting this on a friends 87 Turbo by just reconfiguring the lights in the fusebox ! Stupid system and never caught on - there was a massive power resistor to limit current and the module was triggered by the oil pressire switch - pointless system !

[@edredas]

Thanks! That's very interesting! Now I have to go find one just to see that! The only UK market car that I've seen is the 1990 S2 that 944 Barn has...

[@Otto-AutoPilot]

The other important feature to note specifically about UK cars within the Euro segment is that they are now mostly heavily rusted out, with very few left without patchwork quilt floors, soft and crunchy lower front fenders and lace curtain inner and outer sills (rockers). I think the ocean wave cracked dashboard was not specific to RoW specification though?

[@edredas]

Very true. This car had the same issue with the floor boards and we had to replace them along with repairing some other rust spots. I have seen a few Euro cars over the years that were all rusted out like that despite living most of their life in the southern USA where I never see any rust on a 944. Very odd, but yes! We also received the horrible cracked dashboards...

[@NC944er]

Most excellent sir, thoroughly enjoyed! 👍 Here are a few other curiosities… 1. On the RH drive Euro examples I’ve seen what appears to be a relocated clutch master cylinder with its own tiny reservoir. Looks like the one in your video is a LH drive Euro. 2. Also, do you know for the RH drive cars, is there some kind of linkage running behind the dash to connect the brake pedal to the then remotely located booster/master cylinder? Any perceptible brake feel difference with the remote setup on the RH drive Euros (if you’ve driven one)? 3. Is the steering rack flipped and rotated on the RH drive cars, or a completely different part? Any modifications made to accommodate the steering shaft placement on an already crowded side of the engine bay? Cheers man, thanks for sharing your work!

[@edredas]

I've never driven a RHD 944 but I've sat in one and had a look at all those parts you're talking about. The clutch does have a tiny reservoir, which is pretty common on cars so if the master cylinder fails and leaks all the fluid out you still have breaks, but Porsche had to use one on the RHD cars so the didn't have to run a hose over to the brake reservoir that was still on the left side. As for the brake pedal, yes there is linkage that runs across the firewall to press the brake. I've heard that there isn't any perceptible difference so long as everything is adjusted correctly... The steering rack is the same just flipped around, but the cross-member is completely different with a hole molded into it so the steering rod can access it. Pretty interesting. If I ever get one of those in I'll make a video on it as well!

[@NC944er]

@@edredas Too cool, appreciate the follow up! The design nuances across models are pretty fascinating. Gives us 944 nerds more fun facts to drop on unsuspecting children while they roll their eyes and think to themselves, “Uh oh, dad’s rambling about 944s again.” 🤣

[@j1nx3d5]

I can also confirm what Edredas says. In addition, the steering intermediate shaft from the firewall to the rack is a RHD unique part but is the same part for both manual and power steering racks unlike the LHD cars where the shafts are different for manual and power racks. An issue for RHD is the exhaust manifolds cook the unions and off the shelf aftermarket exhaust manifolds will not work or haven't been proven to work on RHD cars due to the steering configuration.

[@NC944er]

@@j1nx3d5 That right side of the engine compartment is already so crammed full of stuff, I can’t believe Porsche was able to squeeze a steering shaft in there as well. 😂

[@beandrive]

Thanks for showing us the differences of these fine cars, been following your channel for about 8 years now and respect your work. Had been following irina25661 (German 944 man) before.

[@edredas]

Thanks for being there all these years! We've come a long way since then and hopefully we'll keep growing!

[@pinkyn0se]

The German one has the optional aluminium front bumper. I've seen that in early press shots, but never in real life. All Euro cars I've seen have the GRP bumper, which is different to this.

[@pinkyn0se]

Oh, you went on the explain this 😅

[@dirtroadcowboy]

I have an '83 944. I wish I could get the manual window regulators from the Euro cars!

[@divoom1269]

mine has them, I'm sure you can import them

[@dirtroadcowboy]

@@divoom1269 I've been searching for them, but haven't found a source. I guess I'll have to keep trying. I couldn't even find them for the older 924's.

[@artmchugh5644]

Check with my friend John at just joshin 944 parts!!! He is in Maryland and has A TON OF STUFF!! that is all he does !! If you talk to him tell him I sent you!!! Good luck!!😁😁😁😁😁🚘🚘🚘🍺🍺🍺

[@dirtroadcowboy]

@@artmchugh5644 Thanks. I'll give him a try.

[@artmchugh5644]

@@dirtroadcowboy good luck buddy!!!! We just got a 83 , check it out if you want!!! 😀😀🍺🍺 kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnSrhYt5gKyZbbc

[@multipurposepaperbox]

Very nice! I really like this detailed look and comparison. On a related note, I've never understood which cars got a catalytic converter and which didn't. Googling this hasn't answered my question either. Do you have an understanding of which cars have catalytic converters and which don't?

[@Irelius]

I could be wrong here but the I believe the reason is solely based on emissions and where the cars were sold.

[@happyfox711]

It all started with smog in LA, then the emission rules started to roll. That's why you had to have a cat on US cars, before they implemented the rule in Europe

[@multipurposepaperbox]

Indeed, however, I'm referring specifically to 944s. Engine oil with high zinc content is usually recommended, but as I understand, that's at the detriment of the cat - if one is present. My question is: which 944s have cats?

[@edredas]

I believe all markets except European cars had catalytic converters. So that's US/CAN/MEX, Australia, Japan.

[@nathanb9987]

Hey Edredas! I have trouble understanding the differences between 1983 and 1984 944s. To my knowledge 84’ is when Porsche introduced electric moon roof and changed the steering system? If you could help clear up some of the main differences for me that would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Your subscriber

[@edredas]

Those are the only differences, other than some vacuum hoses that were moved around on the intake.

[@nathanb9987]

@@edredas Ok nice, thank you. I thought those two where the only major changes. Thanks for the response.

[@stitch2k1]

An ROW impact bumper! That's rare. Only countries that I know that had them (standard) were Finland and Saudi Arabia. Edit: Also a side note, technically speaking the driving lights in some states are illegal, because it's "two pairs of headlights"

[@edredas]

Very rare in deed! I don't think many people opted for them but, I've also heard a few eastern European viewers also mention that these impact bumpers were standard in their countries as well. As for the driving lights, I'm only vaguely familiar with the law. But I would think that as long as they aren't all on at the same time it should be fine. So perhaps the fog lights going off when the high beams come on like most modern cars it should make this okay. The US spec 928 of the same era also had two auxiliary lights in the bumper and was legal since I don't think all were on at the same time. The 5 mph impact bumper law was repealed sometime around 1985 giving way to the 944 turbo front end. They still don't have the driving lights, perhaps since they weren't required in the US, but the fog lights no longer operated when the high beams were on.

[@David.I.Bacsek]

Any difference between the two body measurements regarding their size?

[@edredas]

Both the same length with these two cars and parts such as fenders and bumpers are completely interchangeable. However, I would imagine that the RoW car with the fiberglass 'bumpers' are a bit shorter.

[@David.I.Bacsek]

@@edredas thank you so much for your answer ! Great video !

[@ralleyquattro]

Not sure on the 944 but Audi cars of same vintage had side impact door beams in the North American spec and Euro cars did not have them. Since 944 was built by Audi perhaps that was the case as well.

[@xoxo_dumbgirl2198]

The European bumber and lights look so much nicer I'm curious to know if you can convert the us lights to the euro one 🤔

[@edredas]

The bumpers on this car are a little different that the ordinary Euro models but everything can be swapped over. It can just be very difficult/costly to do so!

[@Martin944turbo]

+ I have a 944 NA that has been completely converted to 951 by Porsche master tech. I don't like my current NA front bumper and found someone selling the Euro bumper here in Canada. Do I need a special adapter to remove the top part of the bumper and install the Euro front bumper? I want to make sure I am buying all of the right pieces from the guy. Thanks! I am loving the channel. You are a 944 doctor.

[@edredas]

Thanks! Yes, the standard Euro “bumper” uses a flimsy metal bracket instead of a proper shock absorber. Keep in mind that they had to pay extra in Europe to get the bumpers that we had standard in the US. The euro “bumper” isn’t really a bumper at all, and not much stronger than paper mache. Many people might think they look better but they were a cost cutting measure since there was no safety regulations.

[@Martin944turbo]

@@edredas Thanks for the reply. Do you know which adapters/brkacets are required to attach the Euro top "bumper" to NA chassis? Thank you.

[@kmajlaton]

What county in VA are you in?

[@edredas]

I live in Charlotte, NC. The euro car from Virginia was here for a restoration. I just thought it would be a good opportunity to show my white US model side-by-side.

[@kmajlaton]

@@edredas Okay, I'm in southern Maryland with my 944 and other German gems. Your videos are great, never stop!

[@edredas]

Thank you so much!

[@osebu]

On the US car, are the side markers supposed to blink along with the turn signal? Mine do and I don't think it's right

[@edredas]

Nope, they shouldn't be tied into the blinkers at all. They are on their own circuit which is separate from both the turn signals and parking lights. I hope that helps!

[@mrnobody6609]

I'd buy one in a heartbeat, but I'm afraid of how difficult it is to find parts for them. I own a V8 Powered 1979 Jeep CJ7 Golden Eagle, and a 1970 Oldsmobile 442. The reason why I chose those is because they still make parts for them. However, I also own a 2001 Nissan Frontier that I can hardly get any parts for, so that's the most important thing for me to buy a car. "New Old Stock" doesn't cut it for me. I need to be able to buy freshly made parts to ease my mind.

[@edredas]

There are plenty of parts still being made for the 944! Also there are a lot of parts breakers. The only part that I know of that wasn’t available for a long time was the early dashboard. However, due to the sudden popularity of these cars lately Porsche has started making them available again! meaning there isn’t really much of anything you can’t get for them.

[@mrnobody6609]

@@edredas That's great news, and honestly made me change my mind about getting one. They seem to be going for reasonable prices in my area, so I may just end up having a little less free space in my driveway if the right one comes along. Thanks for letting me know, man!!

[@drunvert]

There are so many, so many, so many parts. They made so many of these that many of these cars are sitting around as part cars

[@jeanphil1520]

Great info, I'm in france I have a 86 euro model came from germany, your euro model have some US parts like the rear bumper, and your front bumper is a euro bumper with US parts modification, in euro model there are differents parts. Send me your mail adress and it was à pleasure to send you pictures of the details and parts. I like the job you do on 944... your video help me to rebuild my engine !! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@edredas]

Thanks! These bumpers are unmodified and were a factory option for all RoW cars. The front bumper is very strong aluminum just like on the US cars. This option was expensive so it ended up being quite rare since there weren't any laws that required them in a lot of markets. That said, we have a few other sets of the fiberglass RoW bumpers here at the shop of two different styles.

[@jeanphil1520]

Ok thanks ! 😉

[@ktel3]

This is not a standard euro version. I think that's the m058 option package with different bumpers than the default euro ones which are far more sleek.

[@edredas]

I mentioned in the video that this car was equipped with the optional M058 bumpers. The sleeker or smaller fiberglass "bumpers" were more of a 'default' rather than "standard" since some European markets did require you to have actual bumpers as standard.

[@treeskier802]

How much do 944 Euros sell for? I see one for sale in my area for $6000. Are these cars expensive to maintain?

[@edredas]

A lot of people prefer the euro cars so they usually fetch a premium over the US versions. If you get a clean example these cars can be rather easy and cheap to maintain. I have driven mine cross country and used then as daily drivers for over 20 years without any problems. Only had to be towed once because I never popped the hood on the car and after 40 years the spark plug wires rotted apart. That some pretty good reliability…

[@treeskier802]

@ Thanks!

[@masrali4696]

Your EU spec car seems to be missing the indicator (blinker) light bezels....

[@edredas]

Are you talking about the trim that goes around the lights on the front bumper? This is a rare aluminum bumper option that doesn't have them.

[@Tehkeelah]

is it possible to swap euro pistons into a us engine to increase performance?

[@edredas]

The pistons themselves would probably be worth 3-5 hp on their own. So you’d need the correct computer or a chip to make that extra power. That said, a performance alone would probably get you close. I hope that helps!

[@Tehkeelah]

@@edredas your help is always invaluable and inspiring. i feel like theres a word missing here tho "That said, a performance alone would probably get you close."

[@randomsnowfall]

I have a 87 924s that cuts out after it gets to temp , if I pull over and wait for it to cool down I can drive again until it gets to temp. My Mechanic is Stumped any recommendations on what to look for?

[@edredas]

This wouldn't happen to be a white '87 924S would it?

[@happyfox711]

Cool 😎👍

[@edredas]

Thanks!

[@stampedetrail2003]

Ok here's a challenge, I can't imagine anyone else able to pull it off either. Is it even possible to swap a mid 2000s 911 engine into a 944 or 924?

[@edredas]

Someone put a 911 engine in the back of a 924. I don't think one will fit in the front and even if it did I'm sure it wouldn't be very fun changing the plugs!

[@stampedetrail2003]

@@edredas It would be insane, for sure. But look at the LS swaps out there. uggghhh.

[@danecaswell7404]

The Euro model has a US/Canada rear bumper...

[@edredas]

As mentioned in the video, this car has the M058 option. So it uses the same rear bumper that the US Market cars have and the front bumper is also aluminum with bumper shocks. This car is actually how the 944 looks with bumpers on it in RoW markets that required bumpers. The fiberglass 'bumpers' that you often see on euro models weren't actually meant to be bumpers and are just held on with brackets. They'll break with the lightest tap and offer little to no protection in an accident. Since there wasn't any regulations in some countries that required bumpers to limit repair costs, they would put those fiberglass "bumpers" on to lower the price and get them out the door.

[@edredas]

Watch the restoration of this euro Porsche 944! kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmjQhJimq8eIm5Y

[@berndecke9488]

The rear Bumpers of the European Car are not the original European Bumpers. Maybe on a 1982 Car but I don't think so. Greetings from a 944 Driver from Vienna, Austria🙋‍♂️

[@edredas]

The front and rear bumpers are original to this car, and were optional for all years. It was a rare to see this option (M058) in most countries however there were some European countries did require them. The fiberglass versions that most RoW countries received could be upgraded to these bumpers for an additional cost. Thanks!

[@berndecke9488]

@@edredas I think I have seen this rear Bumper on an 924 Carrera GT or Gts never on an 944 in Europe, 👍but thanks for your Answer.

[@Ballistics_Computer]

Honestly I prefer the look of the US spec

[@ze_german2921]

Doesn’t matter which spec you have, people forget they were all made in the same building in Germany

[@paolodeep8459]

👍🏻

[@MrDeathwish94]

The euro sounds a lot cleaner

[@edredas]

Yeah the US car has an aftermarket exhaust that is going in the trash soon. It's way too loud and obnoxious. It would be fun to remake this video once the new exhaust is on, especially since I just put a set of fuchs on the US car and removed the stickers.

[@eriktml]

Bring the hair back!!

[@928pcar]

I would never buy a US spec 928, 944 or 924. The Euros are much cleaner and in many cases, faster!