Porsche 944 - How to gap speed and reference sensors

[@aarondavid2292]

First time i’ve ever real understood this procedure. Excellent info. Thank you

[@edredas]

Awesome! Glad I could help!

[@arthurmchugh5184]

Seeing the video reminds me of a great tip. If you have the clutch can off , before you reinstall it cut out the piece of aluminum under the crank sensors .when you are removing it for clutch work you can leave the sensor bracket alone and the cover will slide right off😎🚘

[@richardsimmons6470]

One of the best videos on a 944 i have seen No silly load music just how its done So many videos are just too long I presume if it was running OK you just replace the sensor you do not need to gap it

[@edredas]

Yup if it’s running fine no need to gap them again. Only if the bracket is removed! Thanks!

[@richardsimmons6470]

@@edredas Will let you now when they arrive - Ive got a solonoif arriving tomorrow Hope it can be fixed before UK Locks donw on Thursday!

[@grantfarquharson4373]

Thank you very much, I had not considered this. I am halfway through my clutch job which I could never of done without your videos. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@edredas]

No problem! Always glad to help!

[@grantfarquharson4373]

@@edredas I got it back together on Thursday night and got the gap set, once again thank you. I have not been able to try it out yet as I now have the cylinder head off, as it was a bit smoky I noticed, so I was going to do the stem seals, but the head looked nasty underneath where it has corroded, so its at the machine shop now getting a skim and new guides too. It is off the road for winter so I can get all of these jobs done. I have joined your facebook page so i can hopefully show you some photographs of it, its an 84 944. P.S I just got your reply, as I am using my laptop tonight and saw this notification which I didn't catch on my phone, I broke my phone working on the car whilst putting the flywheel back on, the bar I was using to lock the clutch bolts to torque the flywheel bolts, dropped and hit me in the nose and then the phone, I had your video paused to show me the torque figure lol. Bloody car is costing me a fortune this month grrrrr lol.

[@JohnGuenther1973]

Thank you thank you!!! Your videos are slowly helping get my 85.5 back on the road.

[@edredas]

No problem! Good luck with your project!

[@RootBert397]

Really good video! Thank you man. Really one of the best Tutorials on YT. Very nice that you had a second engine to show it perfectly. Greetings from germany

[@edredas]

No Problem! Always glad to help! Thanks!

[@christopherkast8045]

Great video, clear and concise and creates a tool to be used over and over, Bravo

[@fail_fast]

Phenomenal tutorial. Thank you very much for taking the time to make it.

[@edredas]

No problem! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@djmjr77]

Lol, wish you would have shown the struggle loosening and tightening those bracket bolts.. I have a 951 and much less room to get any tools.. 😂

[@edredas]

In my "clutch change" series of videos I show an easier way of loosening the bracket, still isn't easy...

[@mikseymono1]

Just sorting out mine and great video, thank you! My problem is the car won't really rev freely above 4000 rpm.....I put an aftermarket sensor on today but gapped with the slightly older shorter OEM one so it hit teeth with a metal scream...however, for the first time the car reved freely over 4500 on start up alone, with no foot on the accelerator. Hopefully if I gap with the same it will be OK.

[@spirosangelopoulos3913]

Thanks, this helps tremendously, as i'm working on this now.

[@edredas]

Awesome! I hope this makes this task easier for you!

[@garaldtao1801]

The cut away is a fantastic idea.

[@roberthallett140]

How many ohms should the new sensors read ? Should both sensors have the same amount of resistance ?

[@edredas]

A new sensor should read anywhere between 600-1600 ohm. They won’t always read exactly the same out of the box so some variation is fine as long as they are within spec.

[@richardsimmons6470]

Great Video Had to remove the holder as the B sensor was so corroded that it would not come out One question - is it the B sensor or the D sensor that has to be gaped if you remove the holder Its not clear on your video? Well that went well. Set the gap with a washer - Should have check it was still attached as when i fitted the new sensors they scraped - damaged them both So i would suggest that you turn the engine over by hand to make sure its OK 2 more arriving Tuesday - Will be more careful next tiem Again thanks for a great tutorial

[@nolabel999]

What is it that I need to remove to be able to get a hand in there? Awesome video

[@edredas]

Depends on how flexible you are. I can sometimes get my hand in there without removing anything but having the intake and oil filler off makes the job much easier.

[@notny41]

Thank you for making this video! Very nice job!

[@edredas]

No problem! Thanks!

[@arturosuacardenas5059]

Waoooo thank you my friend we aprecited your time to make this video

[@edredas]

No problem! Glad to help!

[@danielrizzardi5074]

Thank you for your excellent videos! I'm rebuilding an '83 944. Are there any torque specs for the bracket or sensors?

[@edredas]

Yes, I believe the rating is around 13 ft/lbs. With that said, parts can be old and brittle by now so 8 ft/lbs should be enough. Thanks!

[@cahuec1]

Perfect. Hey, i need a litle help. My suport is damaged. I need to know the height difference between the sensors, do you have that info?

[@edredas]

They’re both the same sensor so they’re the same size in all aspects 👍

[@jimmyjones5796]

DUDE!!! Love your videos!!!! Everyone that owns a 944/951 should be a subscriber!!!!

[@edredas]

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoy them!

[@vicky-nc3to]

nicely explained.... is the 0.8 mm gap is standard in other porsche model also, I mean 964, 928 ?

[@edredas]

I'm not entirely sure but I would think so if they're using the same sensors. I hope that helps!

[@JoeyWebber955]

Great idea sir , Well done .

[@kajalver2654]

Hi again - watched your other vids and they are great! Question: I am replacing reference and speed sensor (probably only NEED changing the referance sensor). I have bought used ones with guarantee. Now he says (seller) gap them 0.8mm. But is that needed if I can pull the old sensor out without loosening the bracket? I can't just replace the sensor?

[@edredas]

Correct! If you are just removing the sensor there is no need to re-gap it. Thanks!

[@artmchugh5644]

Just a tip , anytime you have the clutch cover off , hacksaw the web between the 2 sensor holes then you can remove and replace the cover and not mess with the sensors 😄

[@edredas]

I typically don't like to modify these cars in anyway. That said, I've had a few cars with notched housings come in and they all had interference from the starter causing a misfire. There was a service bulletin about replacing bell housings that have been notched for that reason. This misfire can damage the engine during startup so I always replace them. Thanks!

[@travisdetert1034]

Is this generally the main cause of a non-start or hard start issue? I've replaced mine, and I THOUGHT I adjusted these properly but still no go. My next thought is that the fuel pump is bad. It had sat for about 13 years, and now another 4 and I'm trying to get back to it soon.

[@edredas]

I would say that the most common cause of a no-start issue is the DME relay. When it goes out then you'll get no power to the fuel pump or in some cases the DME (computer). Once you've tried another relay, I would check to see if you have tach bounce when you try to start the car. If the tach needle bounces a little when turning the engine then the reference sensor is fine. If there is no tach bounce then either the sensor is bad or the DME isn't getting power. That said, I made a no-start video on some of this that might help. In my case the sensor was bad and I showed how to check them. Anyway I hope that helps!

[@TaylorZalus]

I don't have spare sensors lieing around... Is it possible to glue the washer on, set the gap then pop the washer off, or will that damage the sensor?

[@edredas]

Yup, it won't hurt anything. When I made this video these these tools were not available, but this is what we use at the shop these days to gap the sensors. Makes life so much easier. 944store.com/product/dg-speed-reference-sensor-gapping-tool/

[@TaylorZalus]

@@edredas only having a single 944 and not planning to do this clutch service more than once I hope to get away with not buying specialty tools if at all possable

[@jacobwiener6229]

Yeah so I was a moron and didn’t cover the hole and dropped 2 bolts and an Allen key down there. I was able the get the bolts out by removing the starter but I’ve had no luck with the Allen key, I’m making a long tool with a magnet on the end that I can hopefully reach it and the flywheel isn’t stuck so I’m trying to rotate it back and forth to make it fall out of the starter hole for now. Moral of the story COVER THE DAMN HOLE.

[@justinescher7582]

The pelican site shows a spacer that needs to go on the speed sensor. As a result, the reference sensor would be located closer to the flywheel once properly gapped. your video doesn't show this spacer. Do you experience any issues by not putting the spacer in?

[@edredas]

Yes the spacer is only used on the turbo and S2 models. They have a larger starter ring gear but the flywheel is same size as the naturally aspirated models. So that spacer keeps the distance for the reference sensor the same. Without the spacer on those models the reference sensor gap would be to far away. That said the spacer is not to be used on naturally aspirated models. Using it on the base models can result in the reference stud colliding with the sensor destroying it. I hope that helps!

[@justinescher7582]

@@edredas Thanks for the response. Ok, so this is on a 924S which is, of course is NA, but the PET shows the spacer for that car. I know you have a lot of experience with these cars - did the 924S have this spacer?

[@edredas]

Nope! No need for one!

[@christiantaylor3516]

I pulled out my reference sensors to do a clutch job and one of them has a deep scuff in it (I guess from previous gapping issue). It ran perfectly fine before, should I replace it anyway or can they take a beating?

[@edredas]

I would replace it. It might last a while but they’re not known for being durable and I’ve seen a lot fail after being dragged like that. Good luck!

[@gibso]

What’s the best tool to tighten the bracket or take it off, haven’t been able to get at it

[@edredas]

Here’s the tool I use. Short 6mm hex head on a universal, with three long extensions so I can get it from underneath the car. I hope that helps!

[@gibso]

@@edredas thank you that worked. When you’re tightening the bolts back up after using the “tool sensor” do you have to do any jigging about or just tighten them as they are. Does the sensor with the .8mm do all the work? If that makes sense thanks

[@bryan1001s]

If you don’t use the same hall sensors can you gap them using the old sensors?

[@edredas]

Yep! That's exactly what I did in the video! Good luck!

[@pavlepavlovic6762]

Hi, I have One question I need to change on my Porsche 924S speed sensor and also reference sensor. Are there the same sensors because I cannot find to buy each separate.

[@edredas]

Yes, both sensors are the same.

[@trulylife1133]

Is the speed sensor the same as the crankshaft reference sensor I cant find the speed sensor for my 1984 944

[@edredas]

Yes, both sensors are the same!

[@trulylife1133]

Awesome thank you Sir

[@edredas]

No problem!

[@travissanford5316]

@@edredas awesome! i have been looking for an hour or more for an answer to this same question- there is a lot of different names used for these sensors, and prices seem to vary my a large margin! i was prepared to by one sensor called a crankshaft position sensor and another called an impulse sender with over a $100 difference in price between the two! so i will buy 2 of the cheaper sensor, and hope my car will fire! I've already replaced the DME relay without luck.

[@happyfox711]

I have the utmost mysterious little fault on my '83 944, everytime I hit exactly 2200 rpm's I experience flutter or rough running. Have you ever run into something like that ? I have for long suspected something to do with these in the video(ref. sensors). When I got the car it had a faar too low idle, too, that I cheated up to spec with a turn or two on the screw, but I guess I burn some extra fuel on that ? Still haven't gotten around to changing the fuel filter, because I thought maybe the two things are connected and if they are, that can't be it. It's like I'm getting some weird resonant behaviour at that exact rpm, what do you think ?

[@edredas]

Sounds like you might have a spark issue. Does it get worse when the car is under load? Might need to check the spark plug wires. I hope that helps!

[@happyfox711]

Thanks for the reply. I will check it out.

[@happyfox711]

It doesn't really matter, its the rpm not the load. Edit_it's always there, but maybe get's a little bit more pronounced with the load, that''s true. I'm having the same issue at about 16-1700 rpm's too, only not as bad as at 2200 rpm's. I agree with you Brent, that it sounds like ignition trouble, but haven't found any fault on the caps/cables/distributor. Plenty of sparks on all plugs, visually, but hard to check proper under the conditions the error strikes. Still haven't gotten to the bottom of it, had a lot of other stuff going on, just changed waterpump, belts, rollers etc. this week.

[@brendanmoran397]

I have an 83 944, same issue!!! The magical combination of 2200 rpm and the temperature gauge at about the first dash and the thing throws a fit! Spits, sputters wants to stall, smell like it's running rich. this can go on for up to five minutes and then bam! Right back to running beautifully. I was thinking either speed sensors or the CPU?? Edredas your videos are the best and I'd like to see what you think this could be?

[@TakeFlightGarage]

Very helpful video edredas. Unfortunately my sensors broke off in the old bracket which I had to replace. Before I set the gap, and install new sensors, do you have any recommendations for lubing up the new sensors so that they are less prone to breaking for the next time I have to do this job? I don’t want to run into the same situation twice. Love your channel!

[@edredas]

Thanks! I think any sort of lube should be fine or you can even try putting a little moly grease on the seal. That should keep it from drying up. I would stay away from white Lithium grease since it dries and would make them stick worse. I hope that helps!

[@TakeFlightGarage]

edredas Great thanks! 👍🏻

[@edredas]

Good luck!

[@anthonyakers6374]

I got new sensors but the sensor closest to the front of the vehicle seems to be sitting inside the bracket too lose.... Did I receive the wrong part? Any input would be great thanks!

[@edredas]

The sensors are the same, but on the 1985.5 and later cars the sensor closest to the front has a shield over it. Check the sensor you removed to see if it came out with the old sensor and be sure to put it on the new one. I hope that helps!

[@anthonyakers6374]

@@edredas That is exactly the issue thanks! Cant seem to find the part number for the sleeve. The new bracket didn't come with one either. You know where I could find it?

[@edredas]

Here's a link to buy one: www.paragon-products.com/Reference-Sensor-Bracket-p/pp944.101.320.00.htm

[@anthonyakers6374]

@@edredas Awesome! Thank you.

[@jwfpeters85]

Maybe it is a stupid question but i dont get why you need te gap it when replacing the sensors. You can take out the sensors whitout the need of make the bracket lose or am i missing something?

[@edredas]

Correct. When you’re just replacing the sensors there is no need to loosen the bracket. However whenever you do a clutch job the bracket has to come off in order to remove the bell housing. Not to mention that these brackets are commonly broken due to the sensors getting stuck. So there’s a few times when you might need to gap them.

[@rfl35]

Great job thank you !!

[@Cad1900]

Excellent!!! Thank you!

[@TE2REI]

Why do you have to make the gap new ? I mean when i dont touch the mounting at all just put the old sensor out and the new in then it has to work perfectly or not ?

[@edredas]

You have to take off the bracket to remove the bell housing for a clutch job.

[@TE2REI]

@@edredas Ah now I understand. For the clutch job. I need just to replace both Sensors. Thats all

[@josefyoung3245]

What is the third sensor on the bracket on the later engines it says OT and is on the bottom left of bracket

[@edredas]

It's for an old diagnostic tool. Very early cars don't have the sensor and since no one has the tool most people just remove it. I hope that helps!

[@kyledavis3372]

I have a 87 944s there is absolutely no room to do this. I’m trying to just replace the cam sensor. Any tips ?

[@edredas]

It's been a while since I've looked at the sensor on an S, but perhaps removing the intake and AOS might help. I know it seems like a lot of work just to get to it but might be the only way. Good luck!

[@pmgear]

It doesn't get any clearer than that, Thanks!!

[@edredas]

No problem! I hope it helps!

[@MileHighKrew]

what is that part called that it clips into. when looking into the engine bay from the front left side . my sensor part is good but the wire that clips into the sensor that has a bracket to the instake mani is frayed. thanks!~

[@edredas]

I think you're describing the harness itself. You can buy them new from Lindsey Racing. Here's a link to their page, just scroll down. I hope that helps! www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Parts/HARNESS.html

[@MileHighKrew]

thanks ill take a look!

[@dre2992]

You know I don’t know if you still read these comments or not. I realize it was seven years ago, but I wish I would’ve found this video along time ago meaning three days ago because I accidentally squished one, not realizing that that had to be gap and the motor got seized, because it was smashed against the starting gear

[@edredas]

Ouch, sorry to hear that! Hopefully you can get it out with out! That being said, I try to read the comments when I have time. Good luck!

[@vladciuta6298]

Would this cause a no start problem? if the sensor is bad or gaped improperly? Thank you ahead of time!

[@edredas]

I’ve heard of no start and intermittent running issues from incorrect gap but never experienced it first hand. I hope that helps!

[@vladciuta6298]

edredas sort of, debating getting a 944 that’s been sitting, owner says he has to replace some sensor that’s between the bell housing or something like that and he has to take the engine and trans out in order to fix it and for the car to start, this sensor is closest thing I found to what he described. Thanks again !

[@edredas]

No problem! Yeah these are likely the sensors he's thinking of. I have replaced these sensors many times with the engine together, it is easier with the intake off, but isn't impossible! I hope that helps!

[@vladciuta6298]

edredas that helps a ton ! Thanks again for the information

[@rbuswell]

Nice video!

[@xtrek_max1179]

if your ring gear on the flywheel was damaged and missing teeth would this cause your tachometer to become stuck, as its not getting a proper reading? - sometimes it works sometimes it gets stuck, and im not sure where to look next! a new flywheel is not cheap!

[@edredas]

How does the car run? Any noise when starting the car? If it runs fine and there is no noise then it's more than likely a bad tachometer. The pulse for the tach comes from the DME, so you can pull the plug going to the gauges to verify it's getting a good signal. If so, replace the tach. I hope that helps!

[@xtrek_max1179]

@@edredas haha - some times i have to rock it back and forth a few times in gear to get it to rotate enough so the starter will engage - its not ideal, but its what works for now. once running it usually dose fine, though (what i assume is) 1-2k rpm it would struggle, and make sounds almost as if it was running lean? adjusted the idle screw a bit till i didn't hear the slight backfires. and that's how i found your video- i was hoping to make sure i was getting a good rpm reading as i'm not sure where its idling now and hope its not too high

[@richardmoore5384]

My 924S will fire and run for about a second. Sometimes you can make it run longer moving the throttle erratically but it’s not happy. I replaced the fuel pressure reg. which helped but still won’t run on its own. Could these sensors be the issue? Thanks in advance.

[@edredas]

I would check for any vacuum leaks. Also make sure the AFM is plugged in nice and snug. I know it might sound simple but I've seen people trying to run the car without it before wondering why the car won't stay running. I hope that helps!

[@richardmoore5384]

edredas Thank you. I’ll give this a try. Car was a non runner when I got it, slowly making progress. 👍

[@edredas]

Awesome! Good luck! Hopefully, its something simple!

[@richardmoore5384]

edredas Forgot to ask. Do you run a website? Would like to stay in touch. Thanks.

[@edredas]

I don't have a website anymore since its just more practical to have a facebook page these days. Maybe I'll build another site someday, but anyway here's a linke to my facebook pages: Main page: facebook.com/edredas-192753884577/?ref=bookmarks And here's a link to the group! facebook.com/groups/128264574553699/?ref=group_header

[@pntntim]

Where can I get a .8 mm washer I only find 5 or 6

[@edredas]

Not sure, I just had a bunch laying around that I had collected over the years to sift through. They do make a tool now that's fairly cheap that makes this job a little easier. No affiliation with this website. I hope it helps! 944store.com/product/dg-speed-reference-sensor-gapping-tool/

[@philipandrew9915]

If these sensors are faulty will it cause a no spark issue

[@edredas]

Yes. If they fail you will not have fuel or spark. Good luck!

[@philipandrew9915]

Thankyou buddy I started with replacing the coil as I have power to the coil but no spark coming out the coil, so I've now ordered both sensors and hopefully you have pointed me in the right thankyou mate

[@edredas]

Also check the DME/fuel pump relay as well. Sometimes when it fails it can cause the computer to not receive power which can also produce a no spark/ no fuel condition. I made a video on a no start condition that I had and some of the steps I used to diagnose it. I usually start with the relay then work my way up to the sensors, and I even show how to check to see if they're still working. I hope that helps!

[@Oncewaslostbutnowimsaved]

Is a 5/16 Washer. 8mm?

[@edredas]

Washer thickness can vary. Best to use a caliper to verify. There is also a tool you can buy now that does away with the need for a washer.

[@xar91]

I just did mine the other day. she ran fine before it didn't wanna turn over. I did not use the tool trick. it started up fine and drove until I got into third and the car started bogging like it had a miss fire. would that be a symptom of the sensors not being gaped or something else. thanks

[@edredas]

Potentially, its hard to say but sometimes if they gap is too far apart, the engine can just die and you may have difficultly restarting. Also if you have an 85.5 944 and incorrectly gap the sensors you may get starter clunk that can break the starter.

[@xar91]

edredas thanks for the help my friend.

[@edredas]

No problem! I hope you get it solved!

[@noozall]

I find 5 layers of electrical tape is the correct spacing. Much easier than gluing on a washer. I sorted through my washer collection and never found one the right thickness. FYI .8mm equals .0315 inch.

[@Ruvalc]

what is the prosses for the other sensors? and what are there differences witch connects to what....

[@edredas]

You only need to set the gap with the speed sensor shown in the video. The reference sensor which is also on that bracket will be gaped correctly too! They are both the same sensors but the reference sensor connects to the top connector labeled (BG) while the speed sensor shown in the video connects to the bottom labeled (DG). I will try to make a video on installing new sensors one day and cover all that!

[@Ruvalc]

edredas oh ok thank you my 944 has trubble turning on might be that idk working on it here n there...

[@edredas]

You could try swapping the plugs around... sometimes they get mixed up.

[@gibso]

What happens if a bolt falls in the bell housing asking for a friend 😪

[@edredas]

If you’re lucky it will come out if you remove the starter. Make sure you find the bolt before turning the engine over, even if it requires fishing it out with a magnet. I have seen engines lock up from things getting lodged in there and the only fix is to remove the bellhousing which is pretty much an engine removal. Good luck!

[@gibso]

@@edredasgot it out when I took the starter out thank god

[@succ519]

I dropped a bolt into my bellhousing is it going to be a big problem or just a lost bolt? Please help

[@edredas]

Hi, yes it will turn in to a big problem! The bolt could get jammed and damage things down in there! I had one fall in once and it stayed right where I could get it out. So hopefully, you can reach it with a swivel head magnet or use a grabber to snatch it out of there. If it has fallen down to the bottom them you can try removing the starter and seeing if you can reach it from there. I hope that helps!

[@arturosuacardenas5059]

Thank you boos !!!!!!

[@charlesreyna5645]

what would happen id the gap was nor correct?

[@edredas]

If the gap is too wide then the car would have running issues and might not even start at all. If the sensors are too close then they could contact the teeth or the studs on the flywheel damaging them. I hope that helps!

[@rodrigo747g]

Trying to fix the same problem. Anyone who can share a legit place to buy a refrence sensor / crankshaft sensor and a speed sensor, have found some but not 100% sure that is what I'm looking for. 83' Porsche 944

[@edredas]

They're both the same sensors so any place such as pelican parts, AutohausAZ, FCP Euro, etc. will have them. I hope that helps!

[@arturosuacardenas5059]

Tdc sensor to i have 1990 porsche 944 turbo

[@MrRyming]

How will the engine act if the sensors are not adjusted properly?

[@edredas]

If they are gapped too wide the car won’t start at all. However the most common problem I see is that the sensors aren’t set correctly and get dragged along the starter ring until they break. I hope that helps!

[@arturosuacardenas5059]

What about de other sensor ?how to gap

[@edredas]

You don't have to set the gap on the other sensor since they are on the same bracket. All you need to do is set the gap for the speed sensor and they will both be set correctly. I hope that helps!