POST-HARDCORE IS DEAD? AFI, Thursday, Chiodos, Senses Fail

What killed post hardcore?? Back in the 2000s, bands like AFI and Thursday went to the top of the charts, with a new crop of post-hardcore bands like Taking Back Sunday, The Used and Underoath and finally Chiodos, Of Mice & Men, Sleeping With Sirens and the rest of their cohort following close behind.
That crop of post-hardcore bands (the "boy bands with breakdowns" bands) crushed it, with several of them going to the Billboard top 10-- and then suddenly they fell off, with their sales and relevance a fraction of what it once was. So what happened??
A few of the things I touch on:
- The OG post-hardcore bands like Quicksand, Dag Nasty, Texas Is The Reason, and Farside
- The "real post-hardcore" bands like AFI, Thursday, and Senses Fail
- The "mall screamo explosion" bands like From First To Last, Underoath, Taking Back Sunday, The Used and Saosin
- The peak of post-hardcore with Of Mice & Men, Sleeping With Sirens, We Came As Romans, The Word Alive and Chiodos
- Why the scene became full of gross, phony people who wanted to be famous and ultimately collapsed on itself
- How its collapse fueled the rise of a new crop of real hardcore bands like Knocked Loose, Code Orange, Turnstile, and Angel Du$t
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[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Follow me on Instagram: instagram.com/finnmckenty

[@ryansmith8]

How big were Alexisonfire down in the states? In my country, they were way bigger than Thursday, probably neck and neck with AFI.

[@JK-ml6uv]

Great video but why are you playing FFTL in a video that's supposedly about early 2000s post hardcore? FFTL was like a break-off from horror-core. I'm just curious what your feelings and thoughts are behind this since you use clips from their videos through-out.

[@luteriocastana3022]

Talk about H800 , Congress Deformity , this scene are my favourite.

[@sailorjewlya8263]

Would love to see some light on Canadian Post Hardcore Alexisonfire , Billy Talent, Sleep When Your Dead! 🤙 keep It up I love this channel!

[@lawrencemcstephens308]

Sing The Sorrow by A.F.I. was actually 2003, you said 2001 in the video ***

[@MaouFR]

I don't think my love for "boy bands with breakdowns" will ever fade. Say what you want, but there's something about a talented clean vocalist and hardcore vocals together that gets me.

[@slurpee4203]

YESSS

[@gbcsterbear7206]

Real my guy

[@colindavidson6483]

Same, I still love it

[@krutchrawker]

A great topic would be "What killed Warped Tour?"

[@aidenn0de0evil01]

A few hundred thousand crybabys in a PC era..

[@suckslip]

Shitty lineups

[@jamiehoward6505]

The fans.

[@eh2396]

Kevin Lyman and his greedy ass.

[@BillyxRansom]

The pedophilia surrounding like most of the bands anymore, and Kevin Lyman being all too willing to make zero statement against it. That's what.

[@torstenscholz6243]

Anyone else here who loves Alexisonfire as much as I do? Talk about an underrated post-hardcore band.

[@AlexWhiskers]

Torsten Scholz An epic part of the Canadian hardcore music scene, my friend. They kick major ass ❤️

[@zero0o0o]

Thank you

[@jdparker2007]

This city could be anywhere in the world is probably one of my absolute favorite songs from the 2000s. I just couldn't get into any if their other music...

[@ronstoppable5659]

@Justin Parker THIS CITY IS HAUNTED

[@stockinganarchy4720]

listening to them rn lol

[@calt495]

It's hard hearing the music you grew up on called "boy bands with breakdowns," but whats even harder is not being able to disagree with the accuracy of that label. Underoath will still be my favorite band, regardless of if they are a boy band or not.

[@jdparker2007]

Underoath was absolutely Rock solid until they went on hiatus...every album was awesome. Define the great line was a masterpiece for sure though.

[@flandrescarlet3527]

I mean, if you listen to Underoath's old stuff, they started off in the Christian Death metal in 97 back when Aaron was 14 and moved into hardcore and progressed eventually into post hardcore by the time they peaked

[@k_a_y_l_e_e]

i've never, ever thought of underoath as a "boy band" lol that idea is absolutely ludicrous to me (speaking in the context of aaron being lead).

[@ParabolH]

k a y l e e spencer was always the lead singer.

[@k_a_y_l_e_e]

@@ParabolH ok.

[@nicholaskreider9728]

2001-2004 era should be called "after the drive in"

[@zdoggzero6595]

Nicholas Kreider clever

[@heroesofruin27]

Is this a at the drive in band reference??

[@lobster272]

@@heroesofruin27 no definitely not

[@glassgraves]

Hahaha genius

[@splatbats]

Glassjaw too

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

THRICE FANS: I included the band in that section because they rose to prominence during that period. No need to leave more comments about them.

[@triplehelix247]

You're very aware. I love it and appreciate you. Thrice fans really are defensive, I know because I am one Haha

[@ashofaphoenix]

I want to say that I think current thrice fans really don't remember the place Illusion of Safety and The Artist in the Ambulance had in this scene then.

[@dr6316]

is the singer of thrice a cult leader

[@randommetalhead7]

Your channel is amazing,. Keep going bro, you will get big.

[@MikeA817]

(GRATUITOUS COMMENT ABOUT THRICE)

[@Eyes-Scream0213]

I was literally a Nu-Metal kid during the 90's but when 2000's kicks in I was totally blown out by Post Hardcore bands such as Saosin, Silverstein and Alesana. Those 3 bands is what I considered the trinity of Post Hardcore. When I went to college I shifted to metal but still listening to those 3 bands. Now I'm 30 and still wants to hear some good songs from them

[@chrismacal3342]

that just seem cool to me. i wish i was there to see that transition from one thing to another. i was 13 in 2005 so i only knew these post hardcore bands but before that i had no idea until recently. what year did you start seeing kids with emo haircuts?

[@AtZero138]

Listen to your heart...if it was good.. it should always be.. Cheers from Orange County California... Home of the Fashion Core scene...

[@sanekchatrovich6526]

post-hardcore for me are bands like gllassjaw and at the drive in

[@torstenscholz6243]

Alexisonfire!!!

[@viral0998hj]

saosin's translating the name is a fucking classic tho

[@nomanslandalaskian2596]

Glassjaw and At the Drive in are not pure postcore .

[@BarkertheScrunkly]

To me, post-hardcore is to hardcore what post-punk is to punk. It's really hard for me to think of bands like From First to Last and Taking Back Sunday as post-hardcore since they aren't really doing anything innovative or groundbreaking like Fugazi and Refused. I think "pop screamo" is a better label for them than post-hardcore.

[@luketuke02]

Fugazi

[@ElveTheRunePure]

No mention of Silverstein - quite possibly the most criminally underrated band in the genre - who has been churning out masterpieces consistently throughout different eras. People will remember Smile in Your Sleep, Smashed into Pieces, and My Heroine from the days of Fuse, but their B-sides are, in my opinion, the best B-sides in existence; so much more superior to their hits or any other bands' b-sides. Underoath will always be more popular and you have to admit that TOSC, DTGL, LITSOS are incredible albums, but after that, then what? Silverstein has consistently delivered stunning work every few years to present day and it doesn't get recognized unfortunately. Go see them for their 15 year anniversary tour of When Broken is Easily Fixed!

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

They’re a great band for sure!

[@alanminch5955]

Same. Silverstein has, for the most part, stayed/sounded the same

[@andybrinks3784]

Silverstein were the first post-hardcore/ screamo type band I heard. My friend gave me a burned copy of When broken is easily fixed. It was great! Bloody exciting! I played the Hell out of the CD. To me, it was the bar I compared all similar groups to. Silverstein ruled! My heroin is still one of my favorite songs.

[@Vedder10VS]

great call. Silverstein is a great band.

[@quill6408]

Silverstein is a fantastic example of a great band initially riding a wave of popularity and building a career off of it. Same with Circa Survive. Both build a legitimately large fan base and are still releasing good records to this day.

[@JeffFinley]

I'd love to hear you talk about how Myspace and introduction of social media influenced the music. It seemed that it added a dash of narcissism, with a focus being on image and building a following. A new band could start up, look the part, and start spamming the friends of similar sounding bands. They could generate a massive following before ever playing a live show. Needing a label to get big was no longer needed because of the new social media "friend count" which paved the way for "followers" and "subscribers" - a new vanity metric thatwould encourage narcissistic behaviors. The iPod and smart phones came out in this time period as well. And the "selfie" became a thing (more focus on image). The whole "scene queen" phenomenon, even fans could have followings. Also, this was the start of a more democratized merchandising industry. The rise of the indie clothing company, sites like Big Cartel, Wordpress made having an online store a lot easier. Vector clip art made designing shirts easier (I was one of the designers who made a lot of money selling it). And some of these bands could be considered indie fashion labels with a soundtrack, rather than a band. All these new digital tools made it so bands could release music digitally and sell merch and get famous without ever having to play a real show or get signed to an actual label.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Boom! You just wrote it for me! But actually youre very right - i should do a myspace video for all the reasons you mentioned!

[@TurboShotIncredible]

100% accurate

[@stephenrobinson8244]

Underoath had a big MySpace following, they took up Internet well recording there 2008 album they streamed recording sessions on stickam.

[@Ambitious_Ink_Biz]

The fall off of post-hardcore directly correlates with the rise of Myspace and social media. Sonny Moore, marketed and ghost produced into the mainstream took it to the climate we have today where image is everything. People stopped making music because that is what the mainstream artists were doing and living the rock-star life in the most low effort way possible.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

@@Ambitious_Ink_Biz Agreed! Although just so you know Sonny Moore definitely wasn't ghost produced. I don't know him but good friends of mine have worked with him and he's one of those "nobody touches my tracks" kinda guys.

[@golions13579]

Thursday, Thrice, and Poison the Well were incredible bands throughout their entire careers. Every album by those 3 bands were great. They ended their careers sounding nothing like where they started.. but still amazing. Those were the 3 bands I think stood above the rest.

[@lascosasqueperdimosenelfue9984]

Also AFI

[@golions13579]

@@lascosasqueperdimosenelfue9984 not familiar with the newer stuff. Will have to listen someday

[@xtremeskier84]

I’d like to add Alexisonfire to that list. Totally agree with you.

[@i8764theKevassitant]

@@xtremeskier84 definitely Dallas is a magician

[@jani724]

Still keep those 3 heavy in rotation damn near daily. Ahh the sweet sound of when nothing real mattered

[@Pantallica5FDP]

If no one has heard of Funeral for a Friend check them out, listen to Juneau and Roses for the dead. First two albums are amazing

[@blackasinc]

fuck yea!

[@jelooJusta]

truth!

[@holytearssludge]

My favourite band from uk

[@anusperfecto4786]

Those are just the glossier hits, I've always loved Alvarez and hospitality. Really anything from the in their discography, even their newer stuff up until the breakup. Those last two albums even brought back the heavier feel.

[@KrisPChikin]

Hospitality is absolutely perfect 😭

[@bobby_4505]

I never really understood why Taking Back Sunday is so frequently labeled as post-hardcore. I’ve always thought of them as just a pop punk band

[@charliesmith4951]

I class them as an emo band

[@Alexmustdie-zy6kz]

Because they are Post hardcore

[@greenmind0428]

Their stuff is a mix of pop punk and emo. Definitely not hard enough to be post-hardcore but not rhythmic enough to be pure pop punk.

[@Randy-cf4ve]

TBS is gray area, sort of. I don't think they fit the standard post hc template, but it would be the best fit. More post hc than pop punk, though. Their music didn't have the same up beat tempo, plus the screaming. A lot of post hc is emo, though.

[@cristinagonzalez8807]

@@greenmind0428 True. I don't think they're post hardcore at all.

[@jmathews4765]

At the Drive-In ?

[@RobbieM5290]

J Mathews THIS IS WHAT I’M SAYING! They were so influential. He just skipped their existence. 😩

[@DoktorL0ve]

totally agree. they had a huge impact.

[@aibrainlet8041]

Not only that but he begins the "explosion"or when "post hardcore started getting mainstream success" in the year 2000, literally the year ATDI became the first post hardcore band to have a huge hit and were skyrocketed to fame. admitedly it didnt last long because the band imploded the same year, but ATDI were so influential in bridging the gap between Heroin and Chiodos.

[@BillyxRansom]

Best comment. These other bands, by and large, have nothing to do with hardcore, or post hardcore.

[@ChaosandComics]

Probably because they broke up. Time wise maybe we consider them a precursor. They are the fucking best though

[@joebobhenrybob2000]

Fugazi is definitely post-hardcore. Minor Threat would be hardcore. Texas is the Reason is 2nd wave emo. (Which admittedly is a subset of post hardcore like Christie Front Drive, Planes Mistaken for Stars on their debut ep, or Jimmy Eat World on Static Prevails) "Emo" overwrote the general public's perception of emo the way "post-hardcore" did for post-hardcore. Drive Like Jehu, Husker Du, Jesus Lizard, Helmet. Guys in t shirts and jeans vs guys with girl's designer jeans, colored belts, eyeliner, and swoopy hair. You can visually discern who is who for the most part.

[@alexruddies1718]

You forgot early The Appleseed Cast...

[@scottroe1087]

although I do think minor threat is better I still believe Fugazi is still hardcore. Your reference would be like saying youth of the day is hardcore and shelter is post when truly they are both still hardcore.

[@youhavetogoback8449]

@@scottroe1087 I think Fugazi became more experimental and evolved their sound much more than your typical hardcore band. They're basically THE post hardcore band.

[@weedjuul6519]

During the boyband era I think post-hardcore and metalcore were used interchangeably by a lot a bands. For the same reason you said, breakdowns were the main point of identity

[@i8764theKevassitant]

Yeah attack attack isn't post hard-core but they definitely were called so. Circa ,Alexisonfire, emarosa, dance Gavin, chiodos were all my favorite and the epitome of the genre. I've been getting down on hands like houses the last few months.

[@dancegregorydance6933]

There were a lot of bands that blended those sounds. Stuff like Blessthefall, Underoath fell in the gray area between the two genres. But like the guy above me said there were still bands in the scene that played straight up metalcore like Asking Alexandria, Attack Attack! or Of Mice and Men.

[@AreeyaKKC]

I grew up in this era. Thursday, Thrice, Coheed, Senses Fail, roses are red, silverstein, blood brothers, across five aprils....etc. When Hot Topic was cool and SmartPunk was the place to get new CDs. Thanks for the memories.

[@benfrank8649]

Yes!!!! Blood Brothers!!!!!! Did you see them on tour with Coheed and Dredg? That was the best tour. Coheed was touring Good Apollo Blood Brothers we’re touring crimes

[@AreeyaKKC]

@@benfrank8649 nah saw them in 2003 in chicago with AFI

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

I saw Blood Brothers at the final Botch show in i think 2001??

[@AreeyaKKC]

@@ThePunkRockMBA not sure im east coast buffalo NY to be exact...the shows used to be great here. Now all the venues are closing down or not being upkept. Its a sad world

[@AreeyaKKC]

@@ThePunkRockMBA my fav song is my first kiss at the public execution. Those drum and guitar line 😍😍😍

[@xcalibrx1653]

I always feel like post hardcore just hybridized with metalcore sometime during the late 2000’s/early 2010’s.

[@tarnishedhunter222]

xcalibrx exactly

[@Posiman]

Yeah, that was my takeaway as well. With emo/metalcore bands like Atreyu or Unearth being part of Taste of Chaos tours and generally best buddies with the more mainstream bands, the scene later moved more towards them...

[@torstenscholz6243]

Well, those two genres were never that different anyway - they are both rooted in the hardcore scene, they both had breakdowns, screams and clean vocals mixed, etc.. The only real difference was that ph was more emo- and punk-influenced and had more mainstream appeal while metalcore had harder, more metal-influenced riffs. But basically they had always much in common.

[@Interestingenough4]

It did. In fact, I'd say it began earlier than that, with bands like Killswitch Engage, Bullet For My Valentine, Atreyu, and Underoath taking on post-hardcore/emo/screamo traits and blending them with metalcore. After they blew up during the 2004-2006 time period, that led to more bands playing a post-hardcore/metalcore/screamo fusion sound getting signed to bigger record labels, especially after 2007 or so.

[@Bernholesurfer]

What are you on?, Post-Hardcore has been going since early 90's with bands like Drive Like Jehu, Slint, The Jesus Lizard, UNWOUND, Shellac, Jawbox, Fugazi, Helmet, heck, none of the bands mentioned in the video are even in the genre.

[@danielseale9636]

Finch is my all time favorite post-hardcore band. Say Hello to Sunshine is a masterpiece

[@LiquidDIO]

I also enjoyed watching them squabble with Disturb'd at Ozzfest, I believe it was.

[@soccertalker]

Finch was amazing but they were basically glassjaw super fans.

[@vaughnmild4467]

@@soccertalker Yea u right

[@thebadbandito]

That album is fantastic. Most people can't get passed What it is to burn but I loved Say Hello To Sunshine when it band out loved it.

[@anialopatiuk2467]

What about the mainstream influence and social media influence on rock

[@genequist3859]

It was the era of “Let’s name our bands after books you have to read in high school.”

[@taylortait1]

Ice nine kills call out

[@kyju7093]

@@taylortait1 you mean of mice and men? Lmao 😂

[@porkfriedrice1530]

Even worse was the “our songs are passages from classic books in history.” Panic at the disco had a song that was like 2 sentences from a Chuck Palhuick book lmao

[@G.K.19]

Silverstein lol

[@Naytone]

Glassjaw is also an amazing post-hardcore band.

[@SamSepiol1909]

Yup and dude skips them entirely. The scene bands of the 2006/07 era pretty much tried and failed to copy Worship and Tribute's sound.

[@Naytone]

@daniel zavala also if Road Runner didn't suck and not promote them.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

@@SamSepiol1909 I can't list everybody's favorite band or the video would be 5 hours long. And that isn't really the point anyway.

[@soulcraft_84]

Glassjaw is the exception to this video, those dudes know their NYHC roots.

[@ayeb0ss]

@@ThePunkRockMBA regardless, it would be cool if you could make a video on glassjaw lol (along with at the drive in) I always felt like they deserve a sort of analysis video on KZbin, but sadly they're just not popular enough for many of these channels

[@damagecase138]

“Verb the Noun” is what I always refer to those bands as

[@Danielfucks69]

thats clever

[@eosapienrancher4045]

Protest the Hero best of that lot

[@jlewwis1995]

youthanasia138 Eh that's more metalcore than post hardcore imo

[@prodbyANT]

Horse the Band

[@davecobb5323]

Haste the day

[@outmindbeats]

I don't think post-hardcore is completely dead. Bands like Circa Survive, Saosin, Dwellings, Dance Gavin Dance, Eidola, Hail The Sun, Sianvar, Royal Coda are still active. Dance Gavin Dance released a new album this year. The Fall of Troy is dropping a new album August 8th. The hype might've died down but I still see some talented acts coming in from time to time. Definitely give Eidola and Royal Coda a listen if you haven't

[@brendendavis8596]

Dude journey is still active does that mean their genre isnt dead?

[@gelatinpowder1137]

Unlike metalcore with bad omens, no new band in post hardcore are breaking through. If legacy bands retire, this scene will die. Which leads us to the main problem for post hardcore: Too reliant on older bands.

[@thegreaterg8r148]

Heroin is really popular at my school. I saw a kid passed out he liked them so much. Oh the band? They never heard of it

[@jerryonlychild7003]

Capital Strength well, nodding out is kinda passing out..I would know unfortunately..

[@thegreaterg8r148]

@@jerryonlychild7003 yeah ive also learned as well since writing this unfortunately

[@SydneyChromatic]

Why did i like all of these responses

[@thegreaterg8r148]

@@SydneyChromatic i dunno. You tell me

[@Yixdy]

@@RandomKZbin123 nodding out Is passing out lmao what

[@GhostKillerEntertainment]

Alesana to me was my break through band. I came in sadly during the “Mall Scene Post-Hardcore” finding out about bands such as Chiodos, Silverstein, A Skylit Drive, Blessthefall, and many more. They still play a huge role in what I do and what I love to listen to. I still listen to every genre because it’s good to broaden your horizons when experimenting with music ideas but i hated when people told me “Post-Hardcore is dead.” I still love the genre and the bands I meet who love bands who stem from what I listen to.

[@brodylanetx]

Ghost Killer Entertainment too much shit goin on with alesana lol my ex used to love them it’s like 100 jarret letto’s on stage

[@GhostKillerEntertainment]

Brody Lane that’s understandable, a lot of their music is a hit or miss with some people but still a huge fan of them. They have such a amazing live stage performance and always go all out which I really love!

[@mike0near]

Alesana,Chiodos, ASD, btf, etf was amazing and still are some of them!!!! now everyone have his own oppinion!!!

[@porkfriedrice1530]

Silverstein album with the river on it was a masterpiece and I hated this genre

[@aaronperez971]

Good. People are idiots when use phrases like that and consume the next cool thing as a self identity prosthetic. Unless you where born 1905 and listened to 1st generation blues music we are all “post” something or other. each collective musical generation is an adaptation and growth from the previous. Enjoy what you like. That’s the “hardcore” and “punk” energy when you take away the music noise. I think Bad Religion talks about this. Unless one of these bands grew up in Isolation without hearing any musical influence then composed music from scratch then they’re still riding the wake of their predecessors

[@NarutoUzumaki-sh1do]

I wish you mentioned Alexisonfire. Although they weren’t as big in the us, they made a huge impact globally. They also had a direct connection to the underground. I feel like you can feel their influence in some of the newer bands like Being As An Ocean

[@Kirkules44]

Naruto Uzumaki AOF were there in the very early days, waterings, pulmonary archery, and counterparts in the early 2000s then accidents and no transitory later on! But imo, their impact was mostly felt when they launched Crisis - I specifically remember the months leading up to its launch and them teasing it on MySpace, just about everyone was talking about it!

[@HammarHeart]

to get the full alexisonfire experience you have to be canadian. to this day, watch out! is my favourite album of all time. they were absolutely tremendous when they came out. seeing them as a young teen, getting massive airplay on muchmusic during their heyday was quite literally life changing. it was such an inspiration to know that you could not only make it to that level of success by playing loud heavy and emotionally challenging music, you could do it as canadians.

[@xbreathingisirrelevantx]

THANKKKK YOU for mentioning them. Tbh they were the bridge between 90s Screamo and the breakout from the underground in the 2000s

[@thegirlinterruptedd]

I mean, they are The Only Band Ever afterall

[@FMZ101]

Good one!

[@chrisbenitez6548]

Great video. The one thing I think you missed was At The Drive In who had major commercial success, and whose members became something of a household name especially after forming the Mars Volta.That was one of the main bands that got people talking about Post Hardcore in general. Everyone was stoked on them when relationship of command was released

[@photonfartsqueeze6694]

I wouldn’t say ATDI had huge commercial success. They were critically acclaimed and adored, had a video or two on mtv but that was really it. They were about to achieve commercial success, but broke up before they did.

[@Haddedam]

@@photonfartsqueeze6694 they had a song on guitar hero too.

[@AlessaPao1989]

I appreciate the recognition of Senses Fail having true roots to hardcore. When Buddy "got political" people lost their damn minds and he was confused because that is the whole basis and foundation of punk and especially hardcore. This video clarifies what happened. Some of us got into Senses Fail right from the underground but most kids found them during their scene phase and had zero understanding of the origins of this music. It's a damn shame TBH. The punk and hardcore community and ethos was the heart of the music.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Thank you! Glad to hear that message came through

[@micro-babe]

I'm definitely one of those kids who grew up with the post hardcore boom and got more into the actual hardcore scene now that I'm 26. And going to high school in the dc area, and still carrying my smart trip card even though I moved up north to Baltimore, I wanted to check out those local legends type bands like Fugazi and know the history of the music I listened to. The whole mall scene era and the MySpace boom made it easier to not only discover bands that I liked and aligned themselves with my interests and values, but also made it easier to trace back their roots. Maybe not necessarily as an individual band but as a part of an entire genre. I really appreciate your academic approach to the history of music that (as far as I know) isn't taken nearly seriously as genres like jazz or even early rock and roll. Instant subscriber here.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Appreciate the support! WHITE BELTS AND YOUTH XL SHIRTS FOREVER 😤

[@davidmarrinson3703]

Jazz (Jass, Ass (meaning: shake that ass)) was the original punk. Yes, it's awesome seeing someone take these music scenes seriously and approach them academically. Great job, Punk Rock MBA!

[@SnEaKeRSkEr]

Hold on I'ma let you finish but AFI had one the best albums of all time.( Black sails in the sunset)

[@illwill281]

Indeed, Black Sails (1999) is an amazing record but didn't come out when AFI was considered more of a straight up Punk band? I think their "hardcore" era started with Sing the Sorrow. That being said, personally, I don't care about all those labels, I still love AFI to this day throughout all the eras.

[@RazorBladezX]

Twas more punk but god damn a sexy album

[@devinscott447]

@@illwill281 nope. black sails was their transition album into post hardcore. It's noticeably different than their previous albums with 2 minute burners

[@devinscott447]

Rip afi 1991-2003

[@witnessme4352]

Black Sails, The Art of Drowning, Sing the Sorrow, Decemberunderground and The Blood Album are all pretty much perfect.

[@HawkSea]

As long as you mentioned Thrice.

[@misticspear]

irishcoliny I’m legit mad they were mentioned as mall screamo that band changed and matured every album not to mention they were actually making songs that were technically great AND the lyrics have substance

[@safetytfh]

Thrice stands on their own, their 'wall of sound' approach to mixing sounds fucking awesome

[@Drewb18c1]

Awesome band and really good dudes. I met them at warped tour 05 when leaving the show early due to having had my wallet stolen first thing in the day. I was hungry and dehydrated (because no free water) and had to bail, though Thrice was the #1 band I wanted to see and they were playing late. As I was heading back to the parking lot, we saw them by their trailer and this girl who was with the group yelled "Teppei I love you!" They came over, saw I was wearing their shirt and mentioned that I could see them if I stuck around. I told them why, so they hooked us up with some water (in cool cans that were by the tour for the bands) and offered to take photos. Obviously I stuck around then and enjoyed the hell out of their show! Awesome guys

[@lucreziaborgia5223]

I had honestly never heard of thrice until the song black honey

[@Andy_drummer]

I'll always have a soft spot for Thursday

[@mattthompson1876]

Good band

[@thenoodledrop]

Always thought of the Scene Phase of Post Hardcore as the modern interpretation of Hair Metal. Pretty boys making generic music in an effort to have girls fall in love with the lead singer and buy the bands merch. It was such a vacuous scene and I always hated it. However, I’m really liking the post hardcore bands we’re getting now. And, while they’ve been around for years but have gotten serious traction in the past 2 years, bands like Dance Gavin Dance and Hail the Sun are really doing something great with the post hardcore sound. At least, they are to me.

[@jordinbeckwith]

agreed, dance gavin dance is awesome

[@micro-babe]

Yes! I've been saying this for years! Falling in Reverse/Escape the Fate, Ronnie Radke in general is like the epitome of that. What with all the rivalries and feuding and criminal hijinks.

[@vin_fm2354]

never thought of it that way. Wow.

[@DareBear2099]

Funny that you compare Hair metal to Scene Post-Hardcore because that's essentially how I felt about it too. Wife and I went to a show recently and saw someone with the Mall Emo/Screamo look and we both looked at each other and started laughing, like, it's 2018 and no one told this guy lol Weird how that look aged. Granted, wife and I were part of that scene too back in the day so it also might have been us laughing at ourselves as well

[@MacGuffinExMachina]

I agree, but not just any hair metal, but stuff like Winger.

[@jameshiggins8601]

Post hardcore can't die as long as Dance Gavin Dance is still writing.

[@BookofBeart]

Hilarious 😂 i love dgd

[@kokikhairou]

They are more of a metalcore band

[@rytr0nious]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[@ShivaThreeDee]

So true.

[@Randaddylonglegs]

I'd like to see a short video on Swancore, tbh

[@netzaperez6701]

AT THE DRIVE IN best f*** posthardcore band and still relevant today. Thrice brilliant band as well

[@moebacca]

Early Anthony Green era Saosin and The Illusion of Safety/Artist in the Ambulance era Thrice were the pinnacle of post-hardcore for me. Though there are definitely several other contenders.. For example Full Collapse by Thursday which I personally think was their masterpiece opposed to War All the Time. Most of the 'new post-hardcore' bands feel synthetic and you describe them fairly well.. boy bands with break downs. Mallcore haha! However there are some good picks.. most notably for me is Wildlife by La Dispute. Love your videos. I can never find anyone to discuss sub-genres with me. In fact the moment I say sub-genre the person immediately gives me a puzzled look.

[@beatsbeercigarettes]

Moebaca war all the time really grew on me as the years went on and now I enjoy it a lot more than full collapse. Don’t know why but it happened haha.

[@aweshumandy]

Yeah I'd say La Dispute / Touché Amore / Pianos Become the Teeth is a lane in itself not discussed here.

[@BendyDH]

Just gonna throw out there, loving this channel right now man, I find all your videos super interesting as someone who grew up in the scene

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Thanks man, much appreciated!

[@USHARDY]

While I don’t think the genre is dying, I think a video on the “soft grunge” bands you mentioned a while ago would be interesting (Citizen, Basement, Title Fight, Turnover, etc)

[@Floral_Green]

I think it’s fair to say that Title Fight and Turnover were never too content to stick to one style, and that both of those bands have shifted from anything resembling such a thing with respect to their recent stuff.

[@USHARDY]

Jay Mazella I’m not familiar with Title Fight, but with Turnover I started to like them with Peripheral Vision. I didn’t think much of their previous album Magnolia.

[@dadgrade7837]

Jay Mazella I loved earlier title fight before they stopped screaming. I always related them to earlier small brown bike which I loved as well.

[@mudkips8399]

Wolf Alice and Superheaven I'd throw in aswell. But honestly it seems most bands already moved away from it. From 2012 to 2015 to me when the that small movement happened. I dont think it's a thing now, minus a few stranglers

[@Mac10Demarco]

Citizen is doing fairly well and kinda stuck to their style. Basement released “I Wish I Could Stay Here” an amazing album but every release after that sucked. Title Fight really fucked themselves releasing Hyperview though I liked it but lot of people hated it. Turnover is doing well though, a lot of people dig their stuff I didn’t really dig their latest record but their 2016 song “Humblest Pleasures” is really good.

[@ReeferMan191]

I didn't hear a single mention of Alexisonfire here, and I am now sad

[@judeasher706]

ReeferMan191 they were way bigger in Canada

[@auroranamex5886]

They're a bit too unique maybe with their "nothern" flavor

[@douglassmithe9799]

I'm glad he didn't mention them though, he kinda sounded like he was dissing a lot of the bands in this video and didn't wanna lump AOF in with those 'Boybands with Breakdowns' bands

[@lexipepsi8819]

Love love love alexisonfire

[@jeromeislegend0569]

You probably nailed the 1st part but you did not capture the early 2000 post hardcore like alexisonfire,staticlullaby,thrice, atthedrivein,glassjaw etc. You got thursday right there though.

[@Paulbart20]

Thrice imo has been a "slow burn" type band. They stick to what works and they're still making excellent music. I think they should create their own genre, "dad core".

[@biznatcho7]

“Slow burn” only since Artist (which exploded) and they hardly “stick to what works” given that every album after Artist has been very different than the one that preceded it. That “dad core” comment hits close to home though.

[@jeremyrowe8224]

Thrice doesn't really fit with many of these others. Silverstein is another good example of a post hardcore band that never changed. Catchy hooks, but no progression. Thrice on the other hand grew up and matured. I actually prefer Beggars and the Alchemy indexes which are nothing like other bands he named today to any of their old 'post hardcore' material.

[@user-dt8rj2qg6y]

@@jeremyrowe8224 Hm, don't think so, at the very least there is one major sound change in Silverstein discography which is A Shipwreck in the Sand, maybe after that point changes were not so noticeable except Short Songs of course.

[@matgo4799]

Thrice's music has changed so much that sticking to what works hasn't been on their minds lol

[@porkfriedrice1530]

Millennials with kids all listen to dad core lol

[@lolmee2696]

While I agree on most of these points I think you missed an important point: Most boybands with breakdowns fell of because they completly ditched the music that made them "fmaous". Sleeping With Sirens for example, became a mediocore rock band. Memphis May Fire became a pretty lame hard rock band. Same with Of Mice & Men. I wouldn't call the genre dead it's just all bands that made the genre big either became really shitty or ditched the genre. So the genre never really had a chance to have it's next phase. I think that plays into your thesis that most of these guys are in it for the money, not the craft.

[@benerdick_cumberbiatch]

Fully agree. I actually really liked early of mice and men, asking Alexandria and the devil wears prada. But I really didn't like how they evolved.

[@dallaswadle2777]

Agreed for sure

[@ayeb0ss]

Yeah it's really weird and sad, all the older bands ditched the sound completely, and many of the new upcoming bands are just doing dgd worship

[@mrredisa.d.d.8566]

@min tzik Great point. These days, I feel like a majority of rock bands are turning more pop rock. Even knucklepuck and Real Friends are softening their sound. Seems clear to me it's a trend. Straight punk-pop and 2nd gen. post-hardcore are not as popular in 2018 I guess

[@Fullcollapse1]

Yeah I never liked any of those bands lol . I Thought they had fucked up the scene then.

[@adtrfan18]

I don’t know how close to the genre they would be considered, but Eyes Set To Kill, Alesana, and Silverstein were my introductions into the scene and I still love their music to this day.

[@JohnWayne-vf5bs]

What your favorite post hardcore album

[@richardkey4289]

You never touched on the subject of....' Scene hair'.....!

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

What genre should I do next??

[@chadcarter9581]

The Punk Rock MBA I am a huge NFG fan, and I would love to lobby to get them and others in the rock hall of fame... that doesn’t answer your question but maybe go after the hair bands... lol

[@InkAndPoet]

Two words: POP PUNK. This is a genre that is still around and ACTUALLY still thrives, but in terms of mainstream success, dropped off the face of the Earth.

[@SuptricLucid101]

What Killed Nu Metal

[@DareBear2099]

Agree with Mr. Neo Drama, Pop Punk.

[@InkAndPoet]

@JATEOCH, oh yeah. Emo's just a shadow of its former self these days.

[@stancaj9295]

I love how you show someone that doesn't listen to this type of music that skrillex is the singer from from first to last and they don't believe you

[@kryptonnslaxx6378]

Skrillex was a singer??????

[@yanderevenom9793]

Kryptonn Slaxx HES literally all over the video 😂😂😂

[@petergabriel8961]

@@kryptonnslaxx6378yeah for years then he formed his own thing

[@cheetodyal1782]

AFI will never go away you can still hear their music transcend into bands like Blaqk Audio, DreamCar, XtremsT

[@NoWayOut55]

Blaq Audio is Jade and Davey

[@captainmofongo584]

XtremsT is also a Davey Havok fronted band.

[@mfc5808]

“Boy bands with breakdowns “ is your “fetch” 🤣🤣🤣

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

😤

[@playstationskate345]

Michael Crites i mean its the best explanation

[@goneonholidaybymistake84]

I mean, “boy bands with breakdowns” is bang-on, so disagree, man. I’m gonna start using it!

[@atvena]

And "buttrock"

[@brock-182]

Senses Fail should have gotten bigger than they ever did. One of my top 3 favorites of all time.

[@randommetalhead7]

Their latest album is so fucking good. I love this band, especially the Still Searching era.

[@Chubzero1]

One of my all time favorites.

[@NsiderCustomrobo13]

Let it Enfold You is still the greatest post-hardcore album ever made.

[@dr6316]

but why? they wrote generic records for years after let it enfold you

[@MrEricLenser]

The new album is honestly my fav from them. Album of the year for me

[@Matt_Desrosiers]

Man I miss old Thursday.... Full collapse was an amazing album. After War All the Time they went down hill in my opinion but old Thursday was absolutely amazing.

[@RiggedandReady]

I agree but they still released worthwhile stuff after watt. Their debut and follow up are also my favorite, though.

[@Matt_Desrosiers]

After watt it went down hill for me. I guess I didn't give it much of a chance because of the style change. Also their debut album was amazing as well... Their live album is great as well. But I guess I should go back and give it more of a chance

[@quill6408]

This^ Common Existence is interesting, intricate, and full of gems like Circuits of Fever while No Devolucion is just a gorgeous and brilliant LP. both are definitely worth your time

[@Jeriko333]

Thursday is still amazing

[@mikegallo2143]

While I think A City by the Light Divided is their weakest album I love the discordant chaos of it. It really feels like a reaction to getting famous and the overproduced sound of WATT. An excellent album but it really sounded like they had a lot of direction from their label on that one.

[@MrJoeytulino]

Senses Fail came from the underground punk/hardcore scene in New Brunswick NJ....so when they started they were very much part of that hardcore community

[@beatsbeercigarettes]

Yeah the early recordings had a lot more hardcore influence. I remember loving some demos I had downloaded and when I picked up the album I kept going back to those early recordings

[@acidchurch7619]

Yeah and buddy is a huge fan of hardcore punk

[@ccdunca]

Finch is still one of my favorite bands ever and 2002's album "What it is to burn" is honestly amazing start to finish and " 2005'" Say hello to the sunshine" is as good if not better to some (as I said "What it is to burn" is my fave). I mean Finch "supposedly" started out as Deftones (another one of my all time favorite bands) cover band called Numb. I said "supposedly" due the band later denying this saying they were misquoted. If you or anyone else hasn't given either album a listen you're missing out..

[@beatsbeercigarettes]

There was a version of the title track from what it is to burn that came out on a demo or ep? Before the full length. It was much more raw than the album cut. Still to this day when I hear the album, I miss that cut of the song.

[@ashofaphoenix]

I appreciate the fact that you have recognized my existence in your video. I am one of those late 20s guys that was into Thursday, Afi and Thrice that goes to see bands like Touche Amore (who was touring with Turnstile). I wanted to say that I feel that your analysis is on point, but I would take that last point needs to be taken a step further. I feel that almost all underground punk genres (and especialyl the ones with the words core) are demanding more authenticity from bands in general. I think a lot has to do with the fact that you can no longer expect to become famous or really make a living doing this style of music. That has returned back to the world of the 80s where people do this for fun first. - Econ Ph.D.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Yep, i agree! I didnt bring that last point home as strongly as i meant to/should have - agree 100% with what you said.

[@knnyphph]

aus I think the second to last time I saw AFI Touché Amore was the opener. Good stuff.

[@aprildenni9519]

It ain't dead. I'm 29 still listening to that shit. \\m//

[@dtoy1809]

Gay

[@bennypaddycake7182]

Post hardcore now is nothing but a mess and unoriginal.

[@alle_lustwill_ewigkeit2999]

I'm 29 and still as well but it's definitely a dead genre unfortunately.. :(

[@davidjuarez2215]

31 and still listening , I just saw Silverstein and Hawthorne Heights

[@ProductBasement]

@@bennypaddycake7182 Silverstein is still making good music

[@rj5822]

When Skrillex said, "Note to self, I miss you terribly" I felt that

[@asolitudeworld6118]

You pretty much right. I went to a hardcore show today and I saw a pretty big crowd for a small skate shop. People moshing and having a good time. Hardcore values are coming back.

[@Antiprogressivepraxis]

2006 mall goth Victory Records hair straightener Saucony Core.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

YES!!!!! That was very specific lol. You know your shit

[@alle_lustwill_ewigkeit2999]

Bro I miss that time LMFAO !

[@Exile29]

I feel personally called out by this description

[@kvltizt]

>Saucony This was the butthurt Converge, Glassjaw, Circle Takes The Square REAL EMO hipster shit. Most of the scene kids I knew were rocking shitty Vans slip ons, Chucks or more modern skate shoes like DC or Etnies.

[@devinscott447]

Duerst the wuerst biiiiiiiiiiitch

[@ChaosandComics]

Thrice should be listed with AFI and Thursday. Definitely not in the wave you mentioned them.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Leave it to thrice fans to pick up on the literal 1 second their favorite band was mentioned lol

[@ChaosandComics]

@@ThePunkRockMBA I haven't liked Thrice for a long time but it stuck out is all. Maybe I'm too southern California and think they got more popular than they did. But their hardcore-ish stuff predated AFI's non punk music.

[@beneaththesound]

@@ThePunkRockMBA You know how it is, gotta give the credit where it's due haha

[@majorlow333]

Thrice and The Used should have been discussed more

[@witnessme4352]

@@majorlow333 Two of my favorites.

[@emokoala]

Just saw Senses Fail last Sunday. What a phenomenal show!! (as always) Absolutely rocked it in good ol Jersey. They always were and always will be my favorite band!!!💗💗💗

[@jaygreene1525]

I'd love to see a video about the early 2000's sassy spazzy stuff like The Blood Brothers, The Locust, etc.

[@edthatsit8035]

putting suicide silence with chiodos and calling em a boy band with breakdowns is just rude, sir. i will watch the rest of your video, but under silent protest. ✊

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

I respect your dedication!

[@Danielfucks69]

chiodos is trash, suicide silence was real death metal.

[@Slappaccino]

@@Danielfucks69 death metal? They were chug-a-chug bullshit deathcore trash.

[@dalesnail]

@@Danielfucks69 >death metal hahahahahaha

[@metalmoshingmad777]

EdThatsIt listen to Rivers Of Nihil and get back to me on that.

[@nabi3222]

i still like alot of bands like senses fail, bring me the horizon, thursday, underoath etc from the 2000s cause thats just what i grew up on, but you're completely right with this "new wave" i love all those bands like knocked loose and vein and its cool to me that i guess im part of a community in a sense of being a bunch of ex-scene/emo kids who know all found similar taste again in something alot more real and mature

[@nabi3222]

love your channel btw, you're relatable to people like me

[@ThomthomDrumming]

Fuck yeah Knocked Loose

[@mandinikohl2541]

This comment is SO fucking relatable.

[@alexvineyard9561]

i think i dated a girl for 4 years just because we both loved taking back sunday so much. would def do it again.

[@willowsparks4576]

At the drive in became massively successful with their single 'one armed scissor' in 2000

[@L4DYam3nd]

Crap song

[@user-gw8gn9fm1x]

@@L4DYam3nd no

[@thedudeperson]

@@L4DYam3nd name 3 good songs i wanna laugh

[@L4DYam3nd]

@@thedudeperson It's called an opinion, dickbag

[@ryansmith8]

@@thedudeperson I wouldn't go so far as to say One Armed Scissor is a crap song, but I do think it's the weakest song on the entire Relationship of Command album. It has nothing on songs like Rolodex Propaganda, Invalid Litter Dept., Quarantined, Cosmonaut, Sleepwalk Capsules, Arcarsenal, etc.

[@Kirkules44]

No need to apologies about having an opinion all the time brah! Own it! Personally I feel like you forgot to go into the impact bands like At the drive-in, Refused, Finch, The Blood Brothers and Glassjaw had on the scene. If my memory serves me right: I think the majority of the movement actually stemmed from the release of Shape of Punk to Come in '98, most notably the new noise video, the story and the tour that followed that release. At the time everyone started looking for similar "experimental" hardcore of that era - at the time all we really had was in/casino/out but a couple years later when Relationship of Command came out people in the underground really started paying attention to the genre. One of the pivotal moments for me was when Finch released What It Is to Burn, I remember them being all over MTV (in the same fashion as blink 182, Sum 41 etc), I even remember them performing on Jimmy Kimmel - which was a shock at the time since the scene was still relatively underground. I also specifically remember Alexisonfire winning an award for best music video for Pulmonary Archery and them being all over muchMusic. Follow ups to that, Full Collapse, The Artist in the Ambulance, Worship and Tribute, Watch Out!, Burn Piano Island, Burn had a pretty big sway on the hardcore kids paying attention to the genre, And even brought attention to "emo" as a genre. Around the same time, I remember when The Used, and My Chemical Romance started breaking out, and more specifically when Hawthorne Heights released Ohio is for Lovers - which really seemed to have a massive sway in the next wave of "post hardcore" and "emo". It was such an interesting time, and I was at the peak of my youth, there always seemed to be something new and interesting coming out.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Great comment, thanks for watching! I cant include every band in these but agreed with everything you said

[@Kirkules44]

@@ThePunkRockMBA Thanks man! It's all from my perspective, and we all grew up in different parts of different scenes. In the same way that punk and skateboarding were perfectly timed, I think with punk and nu metal starting to shift, and with the success of warped tour - post hardcore and emo seemed perfectly timed for the next "wave" of music amongst the younger kids at the time. Great video by the way!

[@tobyf7383]

AFI aren't doing too badly these days, "Burials" made it to 9 on Billboard and last year's self-titled album made it to 5. Granted, they've gone for more of a post-punk influenced sound than post-hc ("Aurelia" seriously makes me think of The Sisters of Mercy), and 80s nostalgia is fairly big atm. That being said, "Sing the Sorrow" and "Decemberunderground" both went platinum and they haven't pulled that off since (and I don't imagine they will again). Thursday are back together, so I guess we'll see how their next album does (if they're making another one anyway). Also, this video is making me feel *extremely* nostalgic since this is the kind of stuff that got me into DIY punk and hardcore in the first place (AFI obviously, Senses Fail, The Movielife, Thursday, Thrice blah blah etc.). Like..."Sing the Sorrow" was basically my gateway album. lol I never really connected with the Sleeping With Sirens types, though - but I think that's because I'd moved on to b9 type bands by then, I guess.

[@MaynardOwns]

Afi haha they had some good shit in the late 90s

[@catfishbilly9191]

They still around?!? Damn

[@blissfullydead89]

John McClain they’re releasing an EP in December. Look up get dark by AFI.

[@tobyf7383]

@@blissfullydead89 Yup. I preordered that EP and kind of balked at the shipping. lol

[@Westcoasttrendkill]

@@tobyf7383 how much was it?

[@steven1801]

You are the fucking guy that I needed to save me from falling out of hardcore, but you’re also the guy who’s got me more interested again, because I do or did rather miss it; I left the scene simply because it got so toxic, if there were more people like you in the scene around. Maybe things would have been better. You’re awesome. Thank you for making these videos it keeps me in touch with a community I used to be so invested in. Still love. I’m a music producer now in different genres but still play all my favorite hardcore bands regularly, after honestly years of being absent from it.

[@jeremebonesaw]

That's kind of how I feel about a lot of modern metalcore/deathcore metal heads. Most of them don't know where their music came from.

[@SarahCharles92]

Something I think that is missed a lot with discussions about Hardcore and Post-hardcore bands is the British Punk/Hardcore scene that was also around and developed alongside the American one. Bands like Anti-Establishment in the 80s. You then get the British version of post-hardcore in the 90s with early Biffy Clyro, Cable and Hundred Reasons. By the early 2000s (2001-2004) you had 'real' post-hardcore also appearing in the UK, with Biffy and HR developing their sound and bands like Fightstar, Funeral For a Friend, Brigade, Enter Shikari, Blakfish, Kuckledust, lostprophets (no matter how messed up Watkins is, the music was good), Failsafe, Marmaduke Duke (Biffy Clyro side-project) coming through, along with bands like InMe mixing post-grunge with post-hardcore. In the 2004-2007 period you then have Architects, Bring Me The Horizon, Exit Ten, You Me At Six, Rise To Remain, Bullet For My Valentine and other similar hardcore-inspired bands starting to come through, along with bands like The Blackout, First Signs of Frost, Fei Comodo. By the 2007-2014 period, all the above bands became more popular, causing bands like Futures, Malory Knox, While She Sleeps, Glamour of the Kill, and The Young Guns to gain popularity and that created a newer underground hardcore /post-hardcore movement in the UK that gave us Don Broco's early material and Marmozets. The thing is, by 2010, the UK had mostly moved on from Post-hardcore and moved into math-rock, mathcore and metalcore (Heck, Arcane Roots, The Arusha Accord, Bleed From Within, Bury Tomorrow, Devil Sold His Soul, Rolo Tomassi, The Safety Fire, TesseracT etc.) that post-hardcore has moved in instead of died. The influence of the genre and mindset of hardcore communities hasn't died here, it just looks and sounds a bit different because it evolved over the 2 decades.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Fair enough! I definitely have an american perspective, that is true.

[@vinnregi4882]

Mathcore? :D Please tell me they wear white dorky shirts and they have calculators in their back pocket xD

[@SarahCharles92]

@@vinnregi4882 Would be interesting, but mathcore is more stuff akin to The Fall of Troy, Rolo Tomasi, and Marmozets' 2nd EP.

[@brenspaulding2764]

curious as to what you think will happen with the new wave of pop punk? neck deep, state champs, the story so far, with confidence, broadside etc

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Good question! I don't really see any of them getting mainstream big, but TSSF will probably stick around as a successful mid-level cult band (ala Circa Survive or Thrice) as long as they want to. The other ones, not sure - maybe neck deep... what do you think?

[@emilioolivares]

@@ThePunkRockMBA I agree, TSSF will stick around never making it to the mainstream. I really love the other bands as well but they are more generic pop-punk, don't think they'll last.

[@Floral_Green]

I’ve found myself growing out of Pop-Punk for the most part, but The Story So Far have never really lost their appeal for me. I’ve always considered them a step above their stylistic peers in songwriting, lyrical content and technical ability.

[@lestermanginsay3569]

My Era..- Funeral for a Friend,Finch,Story of the year...Matchbook Romance,Relient K,Emery,Saosin etc.

[@waifubreaks1572]

Bands like Touche Amore and La Dispute where thriving during the "boyband breakdown era", and they're still around of course.

[@Ryan-hj4dk]

Getting burnt CDs of War All The Time and Tell All Your Friends back in grade six was the best thing that ever happened to me 👍

[@sweetpeacampbell3413]

I think you missed a crucial element to this phenomenon that led the "boybands with breakdowns" fans to being Vein, Knocked Loose fans, which was the wave, it was bands like Touche Amore, Pianos become the Teeth, and even to a lesser extent La Dispute that really was a bridge. I went to highschool right in the era of Scene Kids, and admitably really enjoyed lots of it, and it was the "wave" scene that really pushed me into exploring "real hardcore".

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Yeah fair point!

[@ayeb0ss]

I would argue the true bridge point were melodic hardcore bands, shit like stick to your guns and close your eyes really opened my eyes to more of the hardcore scene during the early 2010s

[@sweetpeacampbell3413]

@@ayeb0ss oh yeah dude definitely same, but then again Ive been seeing stick to your guns since like the early early days when they still had x's in front and behind their name lol

[@sargebeats]

and Defeater as well.

[@kungfusansu]

@@sargebeats +1 for Defeater

[@NoWayOut55]

AFI didn't die, they evolved. And as far as I know, they helped sell out the Mountain View Ampitheater in this past September!

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Whats your point?

[@cassia-andor6445]

The Punk Rock MBA Take away they second sentence, and I think that’s a lot of bands: they evolved; whether we liked it or not.

[@KeganTheTowel]

One thing I remember about this time period was that all alternative music with even 1 line of harsh vocals was labeled as screamo, so there was no connection to hardcore for them. Then when people rediscovered the term "post-hardcore" many of them still didn't realize that it meant "after hardcore," and just took it at face value. They still had no clue what hardcore was and everything previously called screamo, from Sleeping with Sirens to Whitechapel, was post-hardcore for a few years.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Exactly! Well said

[@VinylCollektor23]

This channel is like the class I always wanted in college. Kick ass discovery

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

I will tell you where you can send your tuition check!

[@MoshpitTV]

I'm surprised you didn't mention anything about Sonny Moore going solo with skrillex. Not that the video needed it. It's a great video. Just always thought it was interesting that so many skrillex fans aren't even aware that From First To Last existed.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

FFTL werent actually very big which is why i didnt mention them - if he didnt blow up as skrillex then they’d be mostly forgotten.

[@MoshpitTV]

@@ThePunkRockMBA I feel you. Just thought you were gonna say something about since there was so much footage of them in the video.

[@igorlthn1109]

for me it's the other way around. i listened to from first to last a lot in my middle school years but i didn't know if skrillex was sonny moore until 2015 or 2016

[@mandinikohl2541]

No way, FFTL had so much press. I have quite a few CDs that they made it onto, including Warped. Back in those days making it to Warped was getting big. FFTL is one of the few post hardcore bands I still listen to and always refer to, even before Sonny came out as Skrillex. Which in my friend group we were all like "wait isn't that Sonny Moore?!" There were a lot of scene queens obsessed with him and the pictures of him we're prominent amongst MySpace pages.

[@DesiGlamLife]

Afi is still blaring in my car especially bsits album! They have been and will always be one of my favorite bands of all time and now that my kids are preteens I have been introducing them to their music and creating little punk rockers! AFI will live on forever

[@ericcolden4611]

Such a good channel to watch. keep up the good work

[@Sjs9000]

Would Taking Back Sunday be more related to emo along with bands like Brand New and MCR, especially their earlier stuff like you mentioned? Just like to hear your thoughts...Would love to see one done on emo (guess it's still alive with the so-called "emo revival" now but still). Love the channel, keep up the great work!

[@sleepless2621]

Yeah TBS is definitely more emo, but also I think a lot phc and emo overlap when you get the melodic end of it. Even some of the "og phc" bands mentioned in this video are emo. The san diego screamo scene with gravity records is essentially screamo's inception/birth place

[@theBOSpaladin101]

Scott Siegel MCR is emo? Lol

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Yeah, lots of overlap - thanks for watching!

[@maxonmendel5757]

theBOSpaladin101 kinda. Usually I see Blink, TBS, Jimmy Eat World and then a host of it math rock bands like Sunny Day and Tigers Jaw as like what founded emo, and MCR tacked into the second wave of emo-pop with Panic!, FOB, and late Blink. But I’m also only 20 and really never experienced real emo first hand cause I was like 4 or 5 so idrk anything at all. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

[@quill6408]

@@maxonmendel5757 Maxon, this article will give you a good idea of what is considered to be contained within each respective wave of emo. fansided.com/2018/08/15/fourth-wave-emo-revival-bands-tours-definition-music-songs/ A lot of what is covered in this video is what is considered "third wave emo"

[@sleepless2621]

I find it kind of interesting that lot of the bands you mentioned as "og p-hxc" are bands that i would consider real emo. The DC scene, the whole san diego gravity records thing, and to a lesser extent, Texas is the Reason. What makes the difference between emo and post hardcore to you. As a side note, I do believe some of those bands like Saosin and Silverstein are influenced by early emo and post hardcore. Especially since Silverstein covered Orchid's Blood iirc

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

For sure, could go either way with those bands on genre

[@ashofaphoenix]

Its hard to delineate the genre at that point. Those bands have to be acknowledged because they are direct influences on the 2nd wave he talks about. Half of the reason people know those bands today is bands like Thursday, At The Drive In citing them as big direct influences.

[@thebeardedhippoofficial]

Bone palace from chiodos is a masterpiece of an album. Perfection

[@fishofmalice8625]

I love how well informed your videos are. No matter how much I think I know about punk, hardcore, whatever. I usually walk away learning something knew.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Thanks for watching!

[@carlosboscojr.7071]

Saosin and Emarosa should be waaay bigger

[@Slappaccino]

Saosin was big for one album.

[@bennypaddycake7182]

Emarosa is no longer a post hardcore band

[@dancegregorydance6933]

@bennypaddycane7182 Emarosa is no longer a band tbh

[@fergar0206]

I think you were definitely right about the over saturation of bands in the genre and that it came with a wave of generic bands that all sounded very similar and pretty awful attitudes. However I don't agree with your analysis of the end result. I think that the fall in popularity for the genre really weeded out the people that were in it for the fame and what we have now is bands that stuck around because they were able to carve out a niche with more experimental or unique sounds (bands like tFoT and Chiodos could have been a lot bigger but their fall in popularity could really just be attributed to their internal dynamics more so than external factors) still, bands like dance Gavin dance and circa survive have stuck around and from a writing perspective are still evolving and driving the genre forward. Also newer bands in other genres like Chon and Polyphia could be said to be influenced by those PHxC that drew influences from outside genres like tFoT and DGD and they've been getting a lot of traction even if they're not from the same genre. I don't agree that the scene just graduated into listening to full blown hardcore and I think those that were discerning from the beginning found a gateway into a slice of music encompassing several different genres composed of bands who have unique sounds.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

People keep mentioning DGD, and its true they are doing well. But theyre like the ONE exception, you know? Big fan of chon and polyphia too but they are in a totally different scene - but just my opinion and thanks for watching!

[@fergar0206]

I mean they're definitely the standout but other bands like Hail the Sun that started a bit later gained a lot of traction within the scope of the current popularity of the genre. I think they really embody what the current roster of bands in the genre have become, they really don't share much if any of the original sound of post hardcore but again they kinda pulled through because of those differences. A lot like birds was doing well until they imploded and although they are composed of members of other bands Sianvar has been doing something different that a lot of people would describe as a modern version of the Mars Volta. Theres others like glassjaw, good tiger, etc. To clarify I still agree with you that the genre is not what it was in terms of mainstream popularity but I'd argue we've shifted from quantity to quality in an interesting way. I don't like that the artists that I admire so much are no longer getting the recognition they deserve but at the same time I'm kinda glad that the scene has kinda been purged of the more toxic elements that plagued it prior to now.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

@@fergar0206 Cool that you know Good Tiger! I work with Dez from GT on one of my businesses. He's a great guy.

[@christophergarrido2802]

@Fernando Garcia You said and mentioned everything I was feeling man! Nice!

[@joshuagillotte8218]

What's is DGD?

[@nicholasromig5506]

glad to see AFI and Thursday getting props for keeping it somewhat realer than a lot of the other bands in this genre. despite having long ago moved along from most of this stuff, those two generally kept pretty true to their roots, if not sonically, at least in terms of how they comported themselves. AFI just put out a pretty good EP a couple weeks ago. 3/5 of the songs are winners.

[@ofshaun]

The scene years were my most influential and favourite years of music.In particular from 2007-2010. I think you have hit the nail on the head with image getting before values and the music. Just want to acknowledge Oceana, Of machines, Dance Gavin dance and Underoath as being some of the best from that time.I wouldn't trade the scene years for anything.Good Times! Great video.

[@rorygibson3124]

Of Machines is a brilliant shout.

[@noodle5283]

Thursday, was and is the great post hardcore band to exist

[@natekarr]

This is true

[@FoxItAll]

Amen

[@kvltizt]

Greatest? Eh. I'll take AFI and From Autumn To Ashes (yes, they get no fucking respect and I will die on this hill)

[@FoxItAll]

@@kvltizt we talking old school AFI?

[@natekarr]

@@kvltizt huge Fata fan. Didn't really get into afi

[@rainbowfishmusical]

Love these! Do djent next

[@GOREilla.]

Some "mall explosion" bands you cited are legit...

[@Casey_J96]

Especially Thrice! Their early stuff was terrific and they introduced me to other awesome bands like Refused, Fugazi, Frodus. I feel like they're one of the real ones.

[@Totalimmortalx1991x]

I love that AFI members are still connected to the hardcore scene. They show up at hardcore shows from time to time!

[@spookinari1524]

Oh like which bands?

[@ShilajitDasMahapatra]

PHXC will always exist and mainstream or not, would always hold a special value for me, a 25 year old who grew up on a lot of early '00s alternative music. Great channel and would love to see an episode on that oversaturation of the pop punk scene. Keep up the good work!

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Thanks man!

[@aggressiveblaze]

*What killed Rock music?*

[@Orphen01]

The fans.

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

/thread

[@stanboyd1]

Nickelback, Theory of a Deadman, Creed, that was the end of rock

[@teacherfromthejungles6671]

its endless boredom

[@artminusme]

The fans, lack of community development. How hip-hop and country have their fingers in so many different pies is what rock music should be but rock acts are too selfish.

[@patrickmuraszewski3606]

Love the video , as a 60 year old first gen punk I know that hard core attitude never dies. Taking my girls to warp tour a few years back it was interesting to see these new school bands u talk about here .keep up the good work. Teenage angst has a fresh batch every year

[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Exactly

[@JohnSmith-gf3vz]

All I want is music that sounds exactly like early MCR & AFI

[@delak2566]

Yo, Does anybody else remember how so many bands part of the "boy bands with breakdowns" era were always hanging around like 15 year old girls? I remember that stuff being a constant at a lot of shows. Really creepy and weird looking back.

[@carolynnewton9335]

Woooo yes! Coming back to what he said in the video abt bands starting up just to get famous, a lot of dudes never really cared abt the music or community they just wanted money, fame and girls. Unfortunately a lot of dudes in the scene were and in some cases still are sexual predators.

[@pineapple365]

I’m very curious which ones specifically are you talking about?🤔

[@edwardrealgames8906]

@@pineapple365 Pierce the veil not the lead singer but his brother I believe or cousin . This was way back in 2008 but yeah what that other dude Said. They never cared or care about the genre just money and young girls

[@j03T3XAz]

Also yes make a "What killed myspacecore"

[@sxeCJsxe]

i think was basically the 'scene era' for the most part

[@sleepless2621]

@@sxeCJsxe i think what he means is a combination of the scene kids era of phc and metalcore into one more comprehensive video

[@sofetchxx]

Facebook killed it.

[@danielfrancella5219]

My favorite post hardcore bands are Sense fail and A Day to Remember. I really liked your skate punk video. I grew up in the early 90s listening to lagwagon and NOFX. One more thing Fugazi is considered the first EMO band "emotional hardcore" .EMo in 1988 is totally different then emo in 2008.

[@adeptdamage3669]

A Day to Remember aren't Post-Hardcore.

[@dappunk1]

pretty sure Rites of Spring is the “first emo band”

[@chubbymonkey452]

@@adeptdamage3669 they are “easy core” which isn’t even a genre. In actuality ADTRs music is very segmented. Parts are metal, parts are post hardcore, but it’s all based in pop melody. Mixed with the lack of clean screaming, it can be hard to group them in with these bands but a case can certainly be made.