Post office victim was ‘forced’ to plead guilty to fraud to avoid jail time

[@spacemonkey200]

The people at the Post Office need to go to prison for this. We need names.

[@Lynnefromlyn]

AlsomFujitsu! The lies they told! Even going to the extent of wiping all trace of the visit the Trades Union chap made to the UK HQ and saw them doing remote access to live terminals. What they did was so corrupt.

[@themadakh3229]

But are the heads of fujitsu uk based

[@praisethesun6771]

The saddest thing about this is that there are like 60 victims who didn't survive to see this day. Even one of them took his own life suffering depression after he was wrongfully accused. There is not enough money in the world to replace those lives.

[@minkg8178]

This sounds exactly like what our village postmistress was accused of. She was "allowed" to pay back money and have the ppst office branch close. It never made sense at the time that she was doing what they said. I hope everyone affected gets justice and has their names cleared.

[@jamesvdv0]

There need to be criminal prosecutions as a result of this scandal for perverting the course of justice.

[@lunaskye621]

You can never ever trust a justice system that forces the innocent to plead guilty.

[@BenQotsa]

happened to me

[@honved1]

There were also postmasters who weren’t prosecuted but were paying back non existent “shortfalls” out of their own pocketss!

[@Alun49]

Heads must roll after this. The victims should all be cleared and compensated in full. This is an appalling indictment of the PO. They knew something was wrong and they lied resulting in the victims facing criminal charges and prison. Had they faced the problem head on at the point at which it was clear Horizon was at fault then the would have behaved honourably. But crushing ordinary hardworking people and still resisting taking responsibility leaves an indelible stain on the reputation pf the PO. Those who knew and perverted the course of justice should now face criminal charges themselves.

[@stevesteve2837]

and we all know that no heads will roll sadly....investigated by the Met, enough said.

[@Alun49]

@@stevesteve2837 A disturbing observation, but not an unreasonable one.

[@diane4488]

Yes, I totally agree. Those in charge, who lied, should be charged, fined, and sent to prison. They not only lied but aggressively and ferociously attacked anyone who asked questions, or spoke out. What about the guy who was accidently shown, at Fujitsu, staff accessing the individual branch accounts, and correcting errors? They faked a huge debt, and bankrupted him too. That's ruthless and ferocious!

[@Lynnefromlyn]

FUJITSU are as criminally culpable. Very little mentioned of their part in all this.

[@angr3819]

Put a proceeds of crime order on the properties and monies on all responsible. ALL including employees who lied on the helpline. Collusion. Conspiracy. It was all repugnant behaviour by those involved in imposing the new computer system and in refusing to admit it was very faulty. They should all be prosecuted and heavily enough fined that it will affect their lives to the same extent as they caused the post masters and post mistresses. It is for them to sue the creators of the system. I would be astonished if a lot of the post office workers wrongly convicted of fraud had always had excellent accounts prior to the imposition of the new system, and that alone should have been proof - including in court - that so many of them couldn't be wrong. I believe the magistrates and judges are shouting at also be held to account. Bearing in mind that many post office workers lost their homes and credit ratings in addition to receiving criminal convictions. So were greatly and unjustly hindered from obtaining new jobs and homes. Even homes to rent. I haven't really kept up to date with this, and wonder if any committed suicide? Not if any have passed away from other causes, never having received justice and compensation? In fact, jail terms for the Ministers and the top bosses wouldn't be out of order. It's an important fact that the unjustly accused were forced to "repay" monies which weren't missing at all, and their monies went towards bonuses for the top bosses. How many of those bosses are related to MP's? Particularly those involved in allowing the great miscarriage of justice against innocent employees? How many of those ministers are family members to cental bankers and their royal royal relatives? Including their extended family members? We all know that all wars are bankers wars. That includes financial terrorism. The whole thing no doubt was a factor in fomenting privatisation of the once reasonably reliable and bit affordable post office. I suspect the post office workers were deliberately set up and their innocence was never meant to be proven. I am furious especially for the one who committed suicide and won't see his innocence proven nor receive "compensation'' (as if they could be enough compensated). If we had the guillotine then heads could roll, because it was another case of literal Treason with the post office being owned by the public at the time, and as far as I know the death penalty still exists for it.

[@ciaranhanvey501]

The I.T company responsible for the software, should be in front of the judge too...

[@spikefawkes5152]

Any the Tory government was complicit. No one will ever be prosecuted other than the innocent though.

[@ibrstellar1080]

@@spikefawkes5152 Jack Straw played a massive role in this and it just highlights how Liebour and CON-SERVATIVE are part of the same rotten Billderberg establishment.

[@diane4488]

Indeed! They kept lying about there being no error, when in fact they had a whole team, working 24hrs a day, accessing branch accounts, to correct the 'errors'. It's evil.

[@Lynnefromlyn]

They also cleaned all evidence that the Trades Union chap ever visited the HQ and saw the remote access going on before his very eyes, from their data history. Fortunately he had kept the email from them setting up his appointment!

[@anjou6497]

This poor guy, you can see him holding back his emotions. He's clearly innocent for all the reasons, he says, yet was so intimidated he began to doubt himself. Hold those cowardly Post Office liars accountable and compensate these people such as this man who has suffered terribly. Outrageous. 🙄🌱

[@ConstructiveMinds100]

Corporate psychopaths don't go to prison. Pity that they don't teach this rules in schools. Later people stay naive through the whole life. 😊

[@mvubu6823]

The industrial scale injustice here is incredible. Apart from the post office, how corrupt is the CPS that they went into prosecutions and plea deals without proper evidence? There are many, many people who deserve severe consequences for this.

[@ZuulGatekeeper]

You misunderstand the Crown Prosecution Service was not involved in any of this. The Post Office acted as the prosecutor as it has powers dating back years that allow it to bring prosecutions to court & appoint it's own prosecutors. It allowed the Post Office to abuse those powers & bring charges against people they knew were innocent & coerce them into admitting guilt by threatening jail time to cover up the flaws in their IT system. They also prevented their victim's from challenging those conviction's in court. The Post Office prosecutors simply refused to reopen cases or allow new evidence to be heard basically they were Judge Jury & Executioners.

[@honved1]

That’s part of the problem, the CPS weren’t involved. The post office had their own mini police force

[@stephenjames59]

@@honved1 The CPS are as bad though. They think nothing of scaring innocent people into pleading guilty for something that they didn't do by threatening prison time.

[@Lynnefromlyn]

FUJITSU - criminal actions from start to finish. Very little mention made of them I notice.

[@elennapointer701]

The problem here is that the Post Office is literally a law unto itself. No police involvement; no CPS involvement. The PO is like a mafia.

[@Paul-Weston]

I used to work on the Post Office cash-in-transit. Basically, I drove around post offices delivering and collecting cash and other stock items, stamps etc. I lost count of the times I'd turn up at the post office I've served each week, and I'd meet a locum emergency post master who's just covering until a new postmaster can be found, as the old one's been suspended due to investigation. They showed me the IT system they have to use. It cost the Post Office millions ££ to install across the country and there were a lot of bugs in the system.

[@LyinDogFacedPonyCommenter]

“…Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” ~ George Orwell, 1984

[@jamierennie817]

Absolutely disgusting , talk about leaving the little guy with the smoking gun.

[@natalja2392]

Few years ago My son was wrongly accused of some horrific crime (completely different from this case), and our lawyer insisted to us to plea guilty. He was very persuadive in that .We nearly belived what it s no hope to win this case. We were just in 1 step from pleading guilty. Thanks God we did do not do that and after tryal my son was cleared of all charges. But I still remmeber that horror when you don t know what to choose plea guilty and get less sentence or not guilty and probably live big part of your life in prison if we can't proof innocence

[@venga3]

Same, I've seen it happen.

[@mundoglory7071]

Does 'innocent until proven guilty' not apply anymore?!

[@therealrobertbirchall]

​@@mundoglory7071it never did for the plebs.

[@leet3207]

I would expect this in Putins Russia not in the UK.

[@The_Anomaly]

Horrendous. This has destroyed innocent peoples lives. This needs to be put right and everyone needs to be compensated. What is heartbreaking is there are innocent people that were found guilty & are now dead. They lived the rest of their lives with this & it can't be made right with them. The people that knowingly went through with this should got to jail.

[@JohnSmith-dn6fk]

The justice system stinks,time to jail the jailers

[@kaytoday666]

Coerced into a guilty plea? Disgusting. Who was his lawyer?

[@Swansong321]

It happens all the time..legal arguments aren't reality they're just the legal position

[@adenwellsmith6908]

There was the woman with Downs syndrome. Court had put Greenwich council in charge of her finances. Greenwich council did not pay her TV license. BBC TV Licensing broke the law interviewing her under PACE [Section 77]. They prosecuted her based on that illegally obtained statement. Then Greenwich council plead guilty for her. The courts didn't do their due diligence.

[@johndarbyshire6020]

You are so gullable What kind of an idiot says he's guilty when he isn't

[@venga3]

Taking a false plea happens daily. Big thing in domestic abuse, divorces, child arrangements.

[@hencole]

What I don't understand is that no actual money seems to have been missing in any of these cases. How have the courts made postmasters pay back non-existent money? How was this able to happen when there was no proof that the postmasters took any money out of the system and into their own accounts?

[@themadakh3229]

Disgusting, the people who prosecuted need to go prison

[@brendamartin5545]

we hope and pray you got giant compensation for this its unforgivable

[@ncooper8438]

Its impossible to overstate the degree and depth of corruption shown by senior PO managers and relevant civil servants and politicians. David Davis said it - the PO needs to be restarted with completely new terms of reference. And Sunak and his cronies need to take lessons in morality, honesty and fairness.

[@Jon-xw9om]

I wonder if the Tories will hand back the £330,000 donation they received from the Fujitsu?

[@user-bu9nb8wr6e]

Sunak has known about this for years. He has done nothing to help these people and has been making it hard to get the compensation. It has been brought up in parliament on many occasions.

[@billpeach5317]

This has all come to light after the ITV series when in fact it was highlighted over 20 years ago by the serious press and specifically Private Eye. It was also an ITV program that revealed to the public the Jimmy Saville story. Is this what it takes to make the government to listen to ordinary people.

[@hadrianlear1215]

Unbelievable

[@bend8353]

They did this to 100's of people and pretty much got away with it!

[@betabenja]

for the record, this is the way the law works in the uk - people are forced to plead guilty if they can't prove innocence. pleading guilty saves the courts money, which they reward with less harsh punishments. It is entirely corrupt

[@BenQotsa]

totally agree

[@neilmantle4662]

For over 10 years there have been daily reports on this scandal on top of Alan's campaigning and finally it is going mainstream. It does beggar the question as to what other scandals are out there as yet not reaching the full light of day. Fujitsu still getting unopposed contracts from UK Gov't even to the likes of BT that has ex CEO of Post Office Adam Crozier at the helm

[@hencole]

I suspect that the next stage of this scandal will be the emergence of back handers to post office staff and politicans.

[@allanmilnes1636]

Now imagine all the other people forced to plead guilty to crimes they have not committed. What a joke our system is

[@ibrstellar1080]

Jack Straw played his part and Vennels needs to be prosecuted for fraud and with holding evidence.

[@RonCooper-nl4pn]

I have never been in trouble with the law. I would rather go to jail than plead guilty to a crime that I didn’t commit. I am 79 years old.

[@tippyphil]

The judges barristers and other connected parties were culpable in this fiasco. There was no chance that individuals could fight ‘the system’ and if anyone believes that the IT departments of both the supplier and the Post Office were not aware of a problem has never worked in the IT industry.

[@sanjd6882]

If this systemic error was wilfully ignored - as it seems it must have been as there must have been an explosion in apparent 'fraud' post installation of Horizon - then those who chose to ignore it should be held criminally liable.

[@obtuse1291]

The legal profession has been complicit in this miscarrige of justice. How else can an innocent person be found guilty with a complete absence of any credible proof? They should be investigated and charged as well. 😢

[@saltnessmonster]

When the government is prosecuting you only an idiot would please not guilty. That’s an issue, as you can’t afford to defend yourself and you get a sweet deal for a guilty plea. The prosecutor team for the Post Office needs to be jailed they lied to court, they knew about IT issue but went ahead

[@Someone-p2x]

So many people have to plea guilty to crimes they never commitment because they are told its the easy way out , ive done it myself , apparently this is justice.

[@tomsimmonds534]

If theft is involved, there is always a ' paper- trail ' so, where is said paper- trail, that was never investigated?

[@Lynnefromlyn]

Because it was never investigated by the police. The PO has its own investigators who obviously ran the company line and were biased if not actually culpable. That’s why there was never any evidence produced.

[@macmac9284]

Shocking

[@Muppetias]

If it's proven they maliciously insisted people to plead guilty while knowing it was untrue and to protect themselves then these malicious fraudsters should be locked up.

[@mrkiplingreallywasanexceed8311]

Words fail me....

[@zerofox7347]

A lot of people are forced to commit perjury to stay out of prison. It’s very well known throughout the legal system.

[@deanmartin9358]

shocking, they knew, fact

[@user-bu9nb8wr6e]

The reason they could not say we made a mistake is their pride. They couldn't be seen to have made a mistake because that would affect their self-esteem. They are full of self centeredness, and those ways of thinking have caused others to commit suicide.

[@shanethrelfall416]

Sickening!!!! Poor bloke

[@Tailss1]

I feel for what these people are going through but please never plead guilty to something you didn't do even if it means jail, once you do that it's an order of magnitude more difficult to claim innocence afterwards.

[@marylynch951]

The poor man May God continue protecting him

[@jonm7272]

Your imaginary God must have been watching when thise postmasters/mistresses were having their lives ruined, and even committing suicide. He did fck all then, what makes you think he's doing anything now. And if he is, it's waaay too late. Your god is bullsh*t.

[@pauloates5972]

I'm sure the country is behind you and all other postmaster's. You all need justice and people to be held to account for the injustice you received. Not only is the post office who gave you all an horrendous ordeal so did the British justice system. Sadly some are not alive to see this campaign, but hopefully their families will receive the compensation that you all deserve.

[@Ellie-vv5tw]

Poor guy.

[@1milliondogs]

I know its easy for me to say not being in this guys position, but I would never ever plead guilty to a crime I didn't commit. This entire scandal is an absolute disgrace, someone needs to go to jail for this, and some serious compenation is deserved for all the victims.

[@Woodzta]

Then by the sounds of it, you'd have likely spent years in jail instead on principle and not particularly better off at this point.

[@1milliondogs]

@@Woodzta That is quite possible.

[@davidpalin1790]

The software company and royal mail must PAY the treatment of these people is shameful

[@extrude22]

Royal Mail and the Post Office are separate entities

[@paulallum9503]

This has been going on for years why are the Times only now picking up this story. There is an entire series of programs on radio 4 about this debacle.

[@paulineashcroft1485]

And Private Eye have been covering this for many years.

[@flabe]

Father Beocca

[@davidrobertson5700]

Coercion too ? Another charge for the wrongdoers who prosecuted the cases too.

[@StephenCrowe-q1s]

we want a shake up of all institutions in this country.

[@simtyful]

This feels like what's happening now with excess deaths.

[@reubzdeubz]

They do this to EVERYONE the prosecution, defence and Judge are in cahoots from the very beginning

[@georgethepatriot2785]

Suprised no one ever queried 700 ? Hard to believe that many would fiddle

[@ConstructiveMinds100]

I bet that they were corporate psychopaths. Ask around and you will find conformation.

[@vickydimitriou6156]

Terrible justice towards the post masters & mistresses, how can theses poor people ever trust gov or these companies again 😢

[@theumarianmeme1483]

The cost of going paperless. I wonder what this has already cost in court fees? 🤔

[@rupertwilson7020]

No mention of the role of Adam Crozier?

[@nickblack4653]

Thats how are bs system is

[@jamesmc1272]

We're not hearing anything about cases where the system showed a surplus, did the postmaster just bank our funds without knowing.

[@streetlegal008]

The nature of the Horizon conspiracy is a hugely complex one - by virtue of the number of different organisations who were required to participate in it. If only one of these had refused to 'play ball' with the board of the Post Office, then the whole house of cards would have collapsed. So when Met officers are carrying out their criminal investigation they have to look very closely at the role of each of these organisations - The Post Office, Fujitsu, Post Office legal representatives, senior civil servants within the relevant government department, the Cabinet Office and No.10 Downing Street including the office of the Prime Minister.

[@oocares]

Peter Lilley (Tory Minister) Commissioned the software & a precursor scheme was rolled out in 1995 and 1996 to hundreds of branches in north-east England.

[@josephberrie9550]

it was rolled out in 1999 under tony blair (labour )

[@green856w]

A pardon is not a quashed conviction. Only the system of court appeals can quash a conviction, unless Parliament enact legislation to meet this particular set of circumstances.

[@tommyhughes2264]

The Post Office is protected by the system, the same system that protects the rich and powerful who in this country that have done wrong.

[@ThePierre58]

This is like a story from a South American banana republic, the fact this is happening in the UK is mind-boggling.

[@DrCreamFilms]

The in truth the British Justice system has parallels with police states like Russia

[@marmite.]

This is the way the system works theres no shock here. This happens all the time...but we never hear about it. He should gave all the money paid back and his charges scrubbed and be highly compensated.

[@Madgunner117]

I wonder how many other companies have done this that are linked to the government and the Crown, for example, the BBC. Personally, I think people need to be jailed for this scandal..

[@TrevColeman]

This is exactly the same scenario that takes place around cannabis charges. Its happening almost 400 times PER DAY!!

[@greengoblin876]

Im a smoker , cannabis is illegal though sooo... its a silly point to try and make , youre doing us who partake.a disservice by making us look dumb, wait til its legal before making us look Dopey 😂

[@billgreen576]

Who in the Govt decided that a computer system that the DWP rejected as useless was perfect for the subpostmaster service.

[@strikeforcealpha9343]

Greed

[@onx99]

Wouldn't a police investigation find him innocent???????

[@Andreas-gh6is]

If you have no mountable defense, you're usually guilty, aren't you?

[@tedbarrow9856]

I thought the post office was taken over by a private company a not a nationalised industry anymore.

[@heatrayzvideo3007]

The post office had two jobs - sell stamps and deliver letters - how did they get it so wrong?

[@xinma6034]

Send him to jail

[@SynKronos]

I have a case which is at the hub of it all. Coverup, post office, small fry. We are discussing the entire system. Corrupt to the core...

[@richardpeel6056]

All respect! I am a First Aider, I switched off the engine and removed the keys from a car following an accident because I found the driver to be unresponsive, medically unfit to hold a driving license and having an epileptic seizure. I believed he represented an immediate danger to the himself and the public. The attending police officer asked if he could come into my home, I asked if we could talk on the doorstep as I was unwell, he jumped on me, took me to the ground, handcuffed me and arrested me for suspicion of robbery. He then told me he intended to hold me in a cell all night and not interrogate me until morning, he also asked me where the drugs were as he searched my home, there were no drugs or stolen goods and never had been. Police complaints were a joke, they wouldn't reopen the case even when they discovered the driver had no insurance. The driver had the same accident on the same spot on the pavement a few months later, he could have killed someone. I risked £20000 in police barrister expenses by taking the case to small claims court and had to withdraw. The government ruin people's lives and can't be held to account!

[@BenQotsa]

this happened to me

[@2DXYSU]

We used to torture witches to get confessions. This is no different.

[@adamgrimsley2900]

The IT system.. This is just how SkyNet started.

[@sidecar7714]

Sounds like bs

[@billgreen576]

People who had passed a rigorous background check suddenly went bad in their thousands and the only common link was the computer system. British justice....give me a break.

[@jhynton95]

Police and court to blame. Simplez

[@AutieTortie]

Police?! Why?!

[@jhynton95]

@@AutieTortie they did not conduct a defence for him

[@NikkiNoo86]

Isn’t this old news? I heard lots of stories exactly like this one a few years ago

[@truthwillwin8977]

Msm is a joke

[@duco8882]

These previews are dam annoying

[@angr3819]

This channel removes perfectly reasonable comments.

[@leso204]

What sort of lawyer tell you to plead guilty when you are not ? did he think you was telling lies ??

[@lyndamccallum1535]

No it saves money and court time. I pled guilty of something I did not do as I was told I'd go to jail if I didn't.

[@venga3]

Every lawyer will do so, it's not about actual guilt but about lessening the consequences for the client. Prison is a massive thing for normal people.

[@johndarbyshire6020]

You cant say you're guilty then change your mind because you want to get on the compensation bandwagon You are guilty, you said it

[@venga3]

Pleading guilty is absolutely a valid if hard legal position to take when all is lost and has about zero relation to actual guilt. Absolutely any lawyer will advise you to do so at such a time.

[@johndarbyshire6020]

What kind of an idiot pleads guilty to something they havent done, then claims it was to avoid prison If one is innocent then plead not guilty and defend the case, thats the whole point The prosecution will not be able to prove your guilt if you are innocent If there is a miscarriage of justice and one goes to prison, at least one can go with honour intact No innocent person pleada guilty

[@johndarbyshire6020]

If one pleads guilty, then one is

[@asmith5149]

​@@johndarbyshire6020I suggest you watch the video again. You clearly weren't listening.

[@johndarbyshire6020]

If one pleads guilty, then one is guilty

[@lyndamccallum1535]

One isn't always

[@venga3]

You are simply ignorant of the legal system. I wish that you one day are put in a position to gain understanding. You will not enjoy it.

[@johndarbyshire6020]

When one is asked the question in court, "guilty or not guilty?" It doesnt mean, "which of these do you think is your safest option?" It means, "did you do it?"

[@brucefraser8583]

Watch out for scammers eh!!

[@davidrobertson5700]

Coercion too ? Another charge for the wrongdoers who prosecuted the cases too.