Why the Pioneer SP-16 is still a BEAST of a machine

[@blablanmoguer]

This sampler is just the best in the world so fun to use, its so Dump that Pioneer stop doing upgrade or do not do a mk2 as this workflow machine is incredible the full idea is so well made, the limitation push you and you could find so many small tricks to play with. I wish pioneer saw this message and do somthing about it.

[@aikighost]

The biggest mistake hey made was not making it powerful enough with the CPU to have an EQ, Compressor, filter, delay and reverb on each pad by default. The MPC just has so many more possibilities than this which is why it won the "battle" even though the Toraiz is much easier to use.

[@petrusbarbatusberolinensis2102]

Agreed. The UI on the Toraiz is way more intuitive than on the the MPC.

[@jordancarral]

They doing gender fluid gluten free inclusive woke stuff now..

[@midi-ocher]

It’s so easy to use, yet, I seem to learn something new about it regularly even after years of having it.

[@Conforce]

a piece of superior hardware that was judged by it's cdj look, it's commercial underlying brand, eventually overlooked by many. the initial price was too high.. sound wise it knocks many samplers out of the game in terms of snap, dynamic, transients. most importantly, the file management on this machine is just impressive alone... not a single modern sampler has such a fast and logical structure to load, find and replace samples.... sadly pioneer stopped improving the software side. with a few minor tweaks they could have improved the OS massively. the biggest downsides are the internal effects (delay especially is a joke...) and the fact that there is no automation recording possible. a more advanced shuffle, swing would have also been a great addition and could have dragged many MPC purists into the game... the simplicity of the interface is also what makes it standout and you can work with the limitations if you're creative.

[@rorz999]

I guess I'm in the minority that I quite like the delay and use it all the time

[@timandtheocean]

Yeah the delay can be used but it is a very simple elementary algorithm. I think with the swing and quantize options there is plenty to get grooving jdilla stuff. It's a lovely highly intuitive sampler. The best I tried.

[@sodiumlights]

Mine has been king of the desk for years now. I simply adore that music-maker more than any other instrument I've ever bought. It still looks thoroughly modern, sounds like a dream, and as every other user will say...its ease of use makes it just a pleasure to use. Zero faffing around, totally intuitive design. Pure class. Irony is Pio are far from classy in how they forgot about it, ditto the As-1. If only they made a mini version. The device almost in tandem is the Blackbox. Very much looking forward to any future videos on this sexy-sleek beauty.

[@rateandfollow]

Yup couldn't agree more! I'm just working on a track that laid down the fundamental drum groove with the SP16 in about ten minutes. No faffing; find, use, done. And it just sounds so good. I'll defo be doing more of these very soon :)

[@sodiumlights]

@@rateandfollow Excellento:)

[@F9Audio]

Thank you Guys - came across this completely naturally this morning and was so chuffed to see the Kick pack in action here

[@rateandfollow]

Hey James - thanks for the comment! Should have tagged you really. (Remember at Brighton Music Conf this year someone stopping you and telling you how great the kick pack is? Well that was me :D)

[@ftlaud911]

Great video!! Very good job explaining each step. I own multiple grooveboxes, but couldn't resist getting a SP-16. Pioneer did an amazing job on their first device. They did rushed it to market (1 filter, minimal filters options, 32sec sample limit), priced it wrong, and didn't market it properly imho. All this affected their sales figures. Beautiful screen, easy to use, solid build quality, amazing DS filter, great sound quality, pass thru audio, midi options, resampling, slicing, and can be a performance monster. Never plan to sell mine. May even buy another for a spare and see what can be done with two of them. Elecktron would have had a serious competitor with a few more firmware updates. Look forward to more SP-16 videos - please do!!!

[@rateandfollow]

Thanks for the comment. Yes I agree - it's lots of fun and far more immediate than Elektron (for me at least, though Model:Samples was lots of fun). I plan to do some 'let's see what we come up with in 10 minutes' videos to show how great this unit is for sketching out ideas. Subscribe and stay tuned! :D

[@doradoradoramen]

These machines just sound so very good

[@Technonsia]

the compressor on the master is more advanced. so it doesn't have the normalized feature, but instead, you just make a normalized sample with the compressor on the master. why its a beast, well 16 LFO s and audio routing 8 outs. and audio design with waveforms from any sample. and it's a midi sequencer. also no quality loss with resampling. be sure to turn the analog filter off when making samples. also all the effects are per pad, so 16 filters 16 delays 16 of anything, midi, beat bpm detect, auto sync samples. and all features a sampler must have. the only thing is, this is a workaround sampler. everything is a workaround. that's why it's so much fun.

[@DoctoriusJ]

I’ve owned this sampler since it was introduced to the market several years ago. My beef with this machine was that it wasn’t upgradable or linked to any DAW like an MPC. It does sound nice and is easy to use. Thanks for the video, maybe I’ll break it back out from under the cover.

[@user82938]

Wow, the full Toraiz setup! I'm impressed.

[@rateandfollow]

Sold the Squid 🤪

[@DankePlace]

@@rateandfollow I sold mine too, I hated the menu divey setup for MIDI n things. Hated the muscle memory required to get things going. Made one of my best tracks with it but my 2 AS1s still remain as does the SP16.

[@rateandfollow]

@@DankePlace Yes agreed. I'm very tempted by the Oxi One :D

[@boostandflow4603]

What a fantastic piece of kit.

[@rorz999]

Thanks for this video, it's good to see an ode to the SP-16 some years later. I have one and it's still my favourite piece of music gear I've ever owned. It just sounds so good - even samples imported from a USB stick sound incredible on it. The fact you can resample internally with the analog filter and drive switched on (and while moving the filter knobs in realtime) is a big part of the workflow for me. And the workflow and UI is just unmatched really. These days I'm mostly starting ideas in the SP-16, rendering stems at a pattern level, and then arranging and mixing in a DAW, and adding in other tracks where necessary (eg VST synths). Although sometimes I do just a make a track start to finish in the SP-16 - everything apart from mastering. And occasionally I hook up the outputs to a mixing desk as well. My main criticism of the SP-16 is the lack of FX (and especially decent ones!)

[@rateandfollow]

Thanks for the comments. Yup completely my approach to using it too. I can conjure up ideas I probably wouldn't get in my DAW.

[@rorz999]

​@@rateandfollow yeah same. I often don't even have a clear idea of what I want to do, I just load some samples up and before I know it I've made a decent 4-bar pattern. That almost never happens when I try and make something from scratch in a DAW!

[@mjrisinsd6836]

When I see good cables, I know it will be a good video.

[@rateandfollow]

Haha true! Those Roland cables are great.

[@Claidheambmor]

Excellent taster of a superb machine

[@substance90]

I sold mine 2 years ago and miss it dearly. Might have to rebuy.

[@rateandfollow]

Yup I've come close but can't bring myself to do it!

[@FairchlldMusic1]

Have one, love it for hip hop especially! Thanks for the vid

[@rateandfollow]

Yeah I can totally see it being used for Hip Hop. My pleasure :)

[@rorz999]

It is perfect for hip-hop 🔥

[@rateandfollow]

Do you have an SP-16? Love it or hate it? Or are you tempted to get one? Let me know!

[@sossomuss]

I've both the Sp-16 and squid. They're both great. Although elektron is tempting me!

[@rateandfollow]

@@sossomuss Model:Samples and Cycles are fun but a little limiting. Tried the big boys and life is too short lol

[@rorz999]

​@@sossomuss now you just need the (excellent) AS-1 to complete the Toraiz collection 😉

[@rateandfollow]

@@rorz999 Good job I hvae one of those too ;)

[@midi-ocher]

My set up has evolved over the years but the SP has a permanent place on my synth rack along an AS-1, a Roland TR8s, an MPC Live 2 and two synths; I’ve got all my bases covered and then some with that. Other awesome gear that didn’t make the cut for me, for one or another reason, have been the: Roland SP404 mkII, Maschine +, Akai FORCE and Roland MC707.

[@aikighost]

I rate this as 2nd only to the Tempest drum machine amongst the pantheon of best "abandoned" gear. Such a shame they never did a V2.0 its such an instinctive and easy to use machine.

[@andrewverran3498]

Fully DIGGIN the samples on that USB. Wahoo.!!

[@rateandfollow]

Haha thanks! The collection has gotten even better. New videos coming soon 😁

[@andrewverran3498]

@thisisdanjeffries I am going to have a play on my sp16 and mc505..thanks for the reply.

[@trevormalcolm4328]

Great video. I’ve been looking for one of these on the 2nd-hand market for ages, I’ve been a MPC head for many years but the newer units kinda leave me cold! I really get the impression that it’s pretty easy (and quick) to get your ideas down with the SP-16🔥👍🏽✊🏽

[@rateandfollow]

Thanks. Yes it's immense fun. I was having a play this morning, preparing for a new video. No idea what was going to come out and within 15 minutes it had a lovely idea bubbling away. It's a very refreshing way to work!

[@trevormalcolm4328]

@@rateandfollow looking forward to it! (If I can contain my jealousy)!

[@robertlee1176]

I was in the same boat. MPC head but newer ones I find clunky - this is a beautifully crafted machine with an intuitive user interface. You will love it!

[@Malinois2812]

Incredible machine🎯

[@rateandfollow]

It really is!

[@sossomuss]

Great review Dan. Look forward to the squid review in the future. Nice desktop stand in the background!!

[@rateandfollow]

Haha - I thought I recognised that name! Yup, still serving me well. Will defo get a Squid video sorted :)

[@Jake-Balibari]

Nioce work ! You build a really personal pattern in a few minutes!

[@rateandfollow]

Thanks :)

[@mojoenicosia1026]

Great Tutorial i love mine and this video gave me some tricks i am not yet doing so thank you !!!!

[@rateandfollow]

Great! Glad to hear this was so useful :) Stil loving this machine

[@thomaschapman3981]

Awesome, nice vid Dan

[@rateandfollow]

Why thank you TC!

[@pepuletrz]

i love this machine..i have seen no video really do it any justice..my hopes are hi with this one.though.

[@joee6014]

Can you please do a timestretching video? 130 to 128 isn’t really much. Would love to hear more. Trying to figure out if I should get this or an old akai.

[@Malinois2812]

For me this is THE sampler

[@rateandfollow]

It's bad-ass isn't it?

[@Malinois2812]

@@rateandfollow it sure is👌

[@ancientbohemian]

we just need some RMX-1000s to couple with this! 😈

[@rateandfollow]

Got that too! Amazing piece of kit.

[@tilliinfinity]

is there ratcheting? i would love to have a groovebox preferably a sampler which got some advanced sequencing options. loved and hatet the mpc series i played a lot with them and they are great but very static.

[@jirihoracek6720]

thanks for the video! not a new info for me, but its a very nice tutorial. and I'm always happy to see some love for this forgotten sampler :) I'd be very interested in a video showing workflows like resampling and live sampling I really love mine, got one of the last new ones in Jan22. I'm beginner in the music making/playing hobby, and this suits me perfectly. very easy to play on, and it sounds so nice. MPC seemed like too much complexity, and I don't understand why they dont have the the 16 step buttons. they make it so much easier for me to get something down using the SP-16 with Digitone and Yamaha Reface CP now I like it so much that I'm now also thinking about the AS-1 :) do you like it? any video on the AS-1 and how you use it with the SP-16 will be appreciated suppose the AS-1 track on SP-16 is just standard MIDI with predefined mapping, right? I'd like a nice sounding analog for bass and leads. Digitone can do a lot, but it can't sound like Prophet :) and I like the general concept of performance oriented controls. sure, it would be nice to have more knobs, and I dont like the touch keybord with C root, but the main things for me are there, and I like the idea of having some cool mappings on the the touch strip to play with its a shame they havent fixed the MIDI sync issue on AS-1, but as I will be always sequencing it from the SP or Digitone anyway, it wont matter much and its a pity the Toraiz team of Pioneer is gone, I think they fucked up the marketing and pricing, but the boxes are just great

[@rateandfollow]

Thanks for the reply! I'll be doing some more jam sessions soon (hopefully live) with various bits of hardware, including the AS-1. It does work well together if you follow the guidance. Fully agree that it's a shame Pioneer have abandoned this (if they JUST included polyrhythms I think everyone would be happy!), but it is what is. Subscribe so you don't miss out on future live sessions :)

[@aikighost]

Ive had both the sp16 and the MPC live and I think the sp16 is really much more hands on (and fun) than the MPC live, but the sp16 simply cant compete with the MPC in terms of functionality especially when it comes to built in FX and synthesis options. Also the time stretch algorithm on the MPC live is simply cleaner and creates less artefacts. So much as I used to love my sp16 I had to sell it in the end.

[@rateandfollow]

@@aikighost Hey thanks for that. Interesting. I've never used an MPC but I appreciate the quality and workflow. I see the SP16 as an 'assistant' to my DAW workflow and a fun utility to generate ideas. Maybe one day when the GAS kicks in (and it will!), I'll look into the MPC.

[@aikighost]

@@rateandfollow the modern MPCs are basically a full daw in a box, you can easily play a full live show with one. The quality of the instrument and effects plugins available these days in the MPC environment is also very high. The main thing I miss off the sp16 is the XoX style sequencer buttons which makes beat production on the fly a breeze. The MPC is slightly more difficult to program in the XoX style, its more of a play it by hand on the pads then use the time correction/quantise function if you want that.

[@rateandfollow]

@@aikighost OK interesting. Perhaps that's why I haven't gone down that route; I prefer DAW work via Bitwig. I'll check it out :)

[@TheonlyMrlab]

Amazing video, just picked up my sp16 last week. How can I save my strip parameter settings? so that when I pull up a new session all of my saved parameter will be there Thx 🙏

[@haavardpaulsen544]

Vert good video indeed: i sold my Toraiz mono synth , sadly, but i am keen to view more of those 3 together. Problem is I don’t find the on your site. (hoped there where a cind of pioneer playlist of any sort…. Can you direct me the proper way? Thanks:)

[@markmorgenstern]

Thank you! Now i feel much better about being an early adopter! And you nailed the biggest disappointment I have about it: the lack of polyrhythm! Ok i guess i’ll go watch your Squid video! Thank you!

[@rateandfollow]

Yup Squid video coming soon. I might have just bought a Polyend Play as well 👀Linking that and the SP-16 should be LOTS of fun! (I do love the Squid but song and file management isn't the best on such a tiny screen).

[@markmorgenstern]

@@rateandfollow OK definitely following! Thank you! just watched and loved your sp-16/AS-1/Nord video too!

[@rateandfollow]

@@markmorgenstern Thanks for the kind words. I'll get on to a Squid video asap.

[@WillisZzz]

Thanks for this! Question: if one wanted to automate the delay amount over time, what is the limit in terms of number of bars?

[@rateandfollow]

Good question. Pretty sure you can automate it over the 4 bar loop.

[@slikdarelic]

They shouldve gave us a keyboard at the bottom.. i would've bought one.. bein a long time RS7000 user, this is the closest thing to that out there.. I might still buy it.. Yamaha is still sittin on their hands when it comes to makin an RS sequel.. smh..

[@Malinois2812]

Question. How do you delete a saved sample on the sp 16?

[@djgreenhornet2892]

I’m still trying to figure that out too. lol

[@rorz999]

You have to hook it up to a computer. It sucks but it's not a deal-breaker

[@djgreenhornet2892]

@@rorz999 I’m going to try it out tonight.

[@Malinois2812]

Combining 2 SP’s would be great also i think…

[@gixerags750]

Hi, do you know if the SQUID, can been clocked to a Pioneer DJ controller , eg XDJ1000XZ , via PIONEER PROLINK ,Ethernet , or does the Squid only have 5pin DIN MIDI? Thanks in advance. ❤😊

[@rateandfollow]

I would think so. It has MIDI over USB, 5-pin and also Clock CV so I am sure it would link up!

[@gixerags750]

@rateandfollow thanks for the reply. Appreciate it.

[@rateandfollow]

@@gixerags750 No worries. I had a Squid but just found it a bit awkward. Now working with a Hapax and it's amazing.

[@nataliamoon]

Can you do a video using beatmaker to add the files ? Its great for live shows making it with the samples, but bringing a project into it has been difficult have ot remake it again if you made it in abelton. Do you have any tips for transfering projects

[@rateandfollow]

Hey! Do you mean Beatmaker the iOS app?

[@nataliamoon]

@UCsdSCVRMZGv81L4F8PRZCAQ beatmaker for splice, can use splice but not add own samples to save and bounce as scn file. The beatmaker plug-in for Abelton can add own sounds but no bounce option for sp16 with scn file. Trying to find a way easiest to transfer projects rather then load one by one . And remake it. If any other software connects would love to know which one.

[@rateandfollow]

@@nataliamoon Ah OK. Hmm I don't use Ableton nor Splice so not sure I can help! I just have everything on a hard disk and import it the old fashioned way :)

[@nataliamoon]

@@rateandfollow ok all good :)

[@sirvidia]

I feel these are all basically standard features on any sampler

[@felix01blue1]

If you buy 2, it's a maschine that will have a much higher value over time

[@karend.264]

Hi , I've been trying to render a sample to my usb drive then open it in my laptop to drag to a daw. It always says it's an unsupported file format. Have you experienced this ?

[@rateandfollow]

Hey Karen. I haven't - exports have worked fine for me. Which DAW? And what does the filename show when you export?

[@karend.264]

@@rateandfollow Hi Dan, I record a sample, save and then render the sample to the usb drive. When I take out the usb drive and pop it in the laptop and drag the wav file to my daw the audio is empty

[@rateandfollow]

@@karend.264 Ah you're recording into the SP16? I know there's various export options. Without seeing it I'm not sure I can offer much help. Have you tried adding it to a song/sequence and then export the pattern?

[@rodriquezbailey1832]

Error message “UNSUPPORTED FILE FORMAT”: This unit can only play 16-bit/44.1 kHz or 24-bit/44.1 kHz WAV or AIFF files. The message above appears when other sample source files are selected.

[@kisho2679]

how can samples files be deleted on the Toraiz SP-16 itself?

[@jirihoracek6720]

you cant. connect via USB and delete from computer yes, its stupid omission in the fw, but I personally dont care there are other things I'd much prefer to be updated. the lack of sample delete, I can easily live with

[@ancientbohemian]

@@jirihoracek6720 exactly (přesně tak:) brofist to my fellow czech sp-16 nerd

[@Malinois2812]

Is the AS 1 also as good?

[@rateandfollow]

Have a look for yourself :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGnSkIhsrraZos0

[@ericpeters0n]

The AS1 is a vastly underrated and GREAT sounding synth. The interface and sequencer leave a bit to be desired (in true Pioneer fashion), but it really does sound incredible and have a huge range.

[@rateandfollow]

@@ericpeters0n Agreed. There's a great plugin for controlling the AS-1 in even more detail, including saving patches in your DAW. codeknobs.com/products.php?id=19

[@agnz]

The AS-1 is one voice from a prophet 6, check out reviews of that to get an idea of how good it is. In short imo its fantastic.

[@popcycles]

21:20 watch your ears.

[@eyesintheskies]

Think this maybe for me. Nice and simple with great filters. But whoever decided to put the usb stick slot on the top needs firing or at least slapped. Seems a recipe for disaster!

[@rorz999]

Why?

[@djyakooblive]

Nice but expecting more features like MPC live Support all audio formats Unlimited sampling Library edit function Delete function And some more features Waiting for latest update from pioneer

[@rateandfollow]

Highly unlikely it will ever get an update I'm afraid. It is what it is and that comes with limitations and lack of new working methods compared to tools like the MPC Live. But what it is is incredibly easy to use, lots of fun and immediately satisfying. And sometimes that's just as important :)

[@rorz999]

The SP-16 won't receive another update. It's been discontinued

[@jfn467]

Get an MPC Live then instead, the SP-16 is an amazing hands on beatmachine doing what it does and doing it really great, and unfortunately Pioneer has decided to close the product cycle on it. For audio formats, there are loads of software, even freeware, that batch converts automatically.

[@djyakooblive]

@@jfn467 I soled already my sp 16 and bought new MPC live

[@Claidheambmor]

@George Woolf Same here. In the end we have such powerful tools now that sound quality is the most important thing in a piece of hardware. Modern MPCs sound crap.

[@timandtheocean]

Man I crazy, got a sp16 and as1 and now another as1 and sp16 underway. Shouldn't i be obliged for a free update to 1.7? Come on Pioneer 😅 the new Akai boxes leave me cold. Get a DAW better. If you use the arranger you can use very long samples. Recording live instruments is also great when using the volume detection. Unfortunately live sampling is not possible. But for synths en pre programmed sequences its ok.

[@rateandfollow]

Yeah sadly I don't think there's ever going to be a 1.7. Whilst I like it, I'm not using it as much any more. I find the audio export awkward and produces 'noisy' wavs (with horrible tails) and I'm having much more productive fun with the MC 707.

[@timandtheocean]

@@rateandfollow you can change the behaviour of the reverb tails in the export.

[@rateandfollow]

@@timandtheocean Yes I tried that but the results still weren't great

[@eyesintheskies]

What happens if your epileptic? Seriously can you turn down the brightness?

[@rorz999]

Yes you can

[@wartizzie]

Wat is er met je duim bro

[@andrewverran3498]

All these clowns comparing it to an MPC, heres a thought when your creative juices run out with the SP16 then go and be a MPC fanboy...its pretty simple.