PR206 is really being discontinued!

PR206 www.artiscreation.com/red.html...
eve’s pr206 vids • Watercolor News🎨- Whic...
• Watercolor News! - W&N...
ina’s IG post / cfevejilnzv
jane blundell janeblundellart.blogspot.com/...
W&N site www.winsornewton.com/int/pain...
my w&n dot card swatch vid • Winsor & Newton Waterc...
Watercolors with PR206:
W&N
permanent alizarin crimson www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/win...
brown madder www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/win...
quin gold www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/win...
Daniel Smith
quin burnt scarlet www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/dan...
stick form www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/dan...
Roman Szmal
Quin Maroon www.jacksonsart.com/roman-szm...
Schmincke
madder brown www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/sch...
indian red www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/sch...
Qor
quin burnt orange www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/gol...
indian yellow www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/gol...
quin crimson www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/gol...
Sennelier
crimson lake www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/sen...
Jackson’s
permanent alizarin crimson deep www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/jac...
(above jackson's links are affiliate links)
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[@awatercolourist]

Hello all! I thought I should make you aware that Jackson’s has run out of the W&N Madder Brown PR206. I ordered two W&N Madder Brown tubes made using PR206 but instead I received two Madder Brown tubes made using PR179. When buying a PR206 make sure that the paint manufacturer has not changed the formula. Perhaps it would be wise to write to Jackson’s and stress that you are looking after the PR206 pigment.

[@PaintinHiding]

oh no! 🤯

[@awatercolourist]

@@PaintinHiding I know! I was very disappointed and sad. Don’t get me wrong, the PR179 is a beautiful paint, but its not PR206, and unfortunately, I am not at all interested in the PR179 version. Jackson’s agreed to give me store credit for this situation. It’s a nice gesture, but I still didn’t get the PR206 paints I ordered.

[@annenglish2935]

Check ebay!!! Old paint in hiding may surprise you! Good luck!

[@awatercolourist]

@@annenglish2935 Thanks for the advise! I do not have eBay where I live.

[@dariseberang4541]

Ouch, i even panic buy w&n brown madder. And guess wht? I got the newly formulated pr179 instead of the pr206, and i unknowingly bought 6x5ml tube. The marketplace account tht i bought it from failed to update me about the reformulation….my wallet feel tht bullet shot wound

[@Blick_Art]

There is a long history of pigments becoming scarce or extinct. In the modern palette, it may be possible for a color to become unavailable if there is a single manufacturer who discontinues or reformulates the pigment. Modern pigments are not necessarily made to be used in artist's paints (the art materials industry consumes a relatively small portion of total pigment production), so when a large manufacturer reformulates a pigment in a way that makes it perform poorly in artists' colors, paint makers may need to choose an alternative. Colors that are mined from the earth can become unavailable if all mines become played out and no replacement source can be found. The original Venetian Red, Caledonian Brown, Cappagh Brown, and some other ochres were mined until the source was exhausted. Certain colors have fallen out of use because alternatives are just a whole lot better. Pearl White, the proprietary blend known as Freeman's White, the ancient, fish-based Gallstone, Hypocastanum (made from horse chestnut), and Turner's Yellow are no longer in use because more reliable materials replaced them. Some manufacturing processes have disappeared due to obsolescence or associated risks, and as a result certain pigments disappeared, like Green Vertider.

[@mariram]

It's always sad when pigments are being produced no longer. Watercolor world is a small one :( I won't be stocking up on anything however. Though I wish I had a chance to try PO49. Too unique. PR206 is nice but the alternatives are good as well.

[@PaintinHiding]

indeed 😞 that's a good mindset! i haven't tried PR206 so i most likely wont stock it either. and you're absolutely right, alternatives could be just as good :)

[@katpaints]

I've gone through several tubes of DS Quin Gold so when I heard it was gone, I got one of the last tubes. It was SUCH a great mixer with other colors! I tried W&N's when it was new and never liked it. I am sorry you didn't get a chance to be delighted! :D I did like Quin Burnt Orange better at times. I need to check on my Brown Madder. When Alizarin Crimson was exposed as a fader, that's one that helped fill the gap! :/

[@appleknocker56]

Just tried to get tube of Q. Burnt orange & says “discontinued” changing it 🥹 & yes can substitute but made such nice mixes. Ty for this info as if had known (at least 3 tubes).

[@nea2454]

I recently bought a half pan of PO49 from a brand called Della Magna Watercolors I would def try them before they're done!

[@awatercolourist]

I thought I should make something clear: the red/magenta quinacridones are chemically classified as quinacridones. The brown/earthy quinacridones (PR206, PO48, PO49) are classified as quinacridone quinones. I think that the quinacridone quinones are being phased out, not sure why, though. It’s a sad, sad day 😮‍💨

[@jenniefrench1338]

The pigment industry is ran by the automotive industry or the colors that are in style. So that’s why they phase out from time to time. Also some are mixes of pigments. Years ago that gold was so popular then Daniel Smith bought the rest of the pigment until it ran out.

[@alexanderherrmann9665]

it's true and it's super sad knews - at least for the ones like me whi really like the permanent aliz crimson and the brown madder by winsor newton - when i heard ab out it i contacted some of the manufactures and from the small resaerch i did currently it's only winsor newton who started to replace the pigment - i dont want to spread rumors - but i looks like only one the few manufactures has stopped producing pr206 - i somewhere heard daniel smith is very well stocked for years to come and also other brands currently arent planning to exchange the pigment - sadly for the winsor newton fans they already did :(...........actually i dont see a color made with pr179 producing a similar color with similar characteristics - i know kimcrick is planning a video comparison and i cant wait to see it.......

[@PaintinHiding]

oohh that’s great information! thanks for sharing that 😊👍🏻 and yes, i heard from john cogley i think that DS has stocked plenty for plenty of years into the future as well. oohh i didn’t know kim crick was planning a vid on that, will definitely look forward to it 😆 thank you for watching and commenting 🥰

[@ms.rocketscience4924]

Thank you for the update! Love the elephant on your intro, but the clouds are lovely as well.💕

[@PaintinHiding]

aww thank you very much! 🥰 that means a lot. i’ve been considering if i should change my profile pic to this elephant one because i quite like elephants 😁

[@luneleaart]

Noooo😭😭😭one of my favourite pigments, mixes the most beautiful vintage pinks and skin tones. Glad I have a large tube from DS but now I hope I will be able to pick up Sennelier's and W&N version before they are out of stock. Thank you for making this video

[@PaintinHiding]

you’re very welcome :) i think you might not need to panic much, read alexander’s comment below. they shed some light on the situation i didn’t know about 👍🏻

[@annenglish2935]

Thank you for sharing! I'm new to watercolor but learning about pigments since I bought so many different named tubes with same pigment! Finally bought dot charts from DS, WN & Schmincke... I did find a Quinacridone Gold from DaVinci in my sample 24 pallet about 3 months ago. Their QG is PY150/PR206... I hope they don't start messing around with my favorites... magentas.. greens... blues... happy painting! A California Gramma ❤️

[@PaintinHiding]

Hi Ann :) apologies for the late reply, youtube doesn't notify me of all comments so i'm only seeing your comment now. those dot charts will be very useful to you. you wont regret buying them :) i recently got to try more davinci paints and absolutely love them! america really knows what they're doing ;P - A Thai girl with one gramma left ❤️;P

[@sandjune2753]

You can also get PR206 in A Gallo - Quinacridone Chestnut.

[@PaintinHiding]

brilliant! thanks for the info. and thank you for watching and commenting 🥰

[@user-yt5kb4os6f]

I'm very sad that this is being discontinued. My favorite acrylic paint was made with PR206 and PR202 :(

[@nicole127x]

I have a set of 24 Phoenix tubes which seem to be the same as W&N Cotmans, and it has an Alizarin Crimson Hue of PR206, so I'm glad I can try it without investing in a professional version.

[@askialuna7717]

I'm not that affected by it, I use alternative PR264 or PR176 by Van Gogh as alizarin crimson. I haven't managed to get the artist version of the paint yet. I prefer this more brownish PR206 and prefer it from DR and Sennelier. I stock up on that from Sennelier a bit, have a half full tube and a full one, both 21ml. I wasn't a fan of the two W&N PR206s. I hope that the new Alizarin crimson with PR179 is similar to the Perylene Red PR179 from Daler Rowney of which I only have one tube and the shop where I bought it earlier, no longer has it and at Jacksons art a tube with 15ml costs over 18 € and for me that's too much. For me, 14€ for a 15ml tube is the end of it, I won't spend more on it. Meanwhile, i use a lot of cheaper paints as an alternative like Van Gogh, since they have expanded their range, I have to mix a bit but I was able to reduce my expenses for watercolour painting.

[@magentaindigoart]

Thank you for the news and color suggestions. I haven't had the chance to try the pigment yet but hopefully it won't disappear as fast as genuine quinacridone gold XD Never had a chance to try this one either before it was gone 🤣 I love using the hues though ^_^

[@PaintinHiding]

me neither~ if i were to get it, it might be from jackson's own brand since it seems to be the cheapest. 😅😂

[@awatercolourist]

If I ever restock on watercolours (and at this point I think it will never happen… I’m too cheap 😂) I think I’ll get the Schmincke and the W&N brands… and Roman Szmal, it’s cheap.

[@djhadaverde]

Wow, Sennelier used to have a single pigment watercolour made with PR 206 called Permanent Alizarin Crimson Deep and now it's made of other 3 pigments to make the same hue: PR179, PR209, PY83. I have the original one and I bought it just a few months ago! That's funny... Well, right now we are living in a world of brutal changes ;)

[@PaintinHiding]

really?! i just checked their website and their permanent alizarin crimson deep seems to still be PR206. maybe they haven't updated the colour chart yet. can't believe so many changes are happening!

[@mooseblossoms]

I just bought Sennelier's Perm. Alizarin Crimson Deep from Blicks and it was PR206.

[@askialuna7717]

I once read that po49 is no longer manufactured because there is no need for the colour tone in wall paints and car paints. I think both PR206 are very nice as a car and wall paint.

[@1827handmade]

I found out this news so late, this pigment became one of my favourites after trying to hunt down another now-extinct pigment which I was also too late to buy. Maaaan :( thank you for sharing the affected colours 🙏

[@PaintinHiding]

jackson’s still has it. as in, jackson’s own brand, it’s called permanent alizarin crimson deep if i remember correctly. i just bought it and it’s beautiful. link to product is already in the description box.

[@1827handmade]

@@PaintinHiding Thanks so much 🙏🙏🙏😁😁😁

[@muff9160]

late to the party, but windsor and newton's cotman range has a color called "rose madder hue", which featured pr206

[@PaintinHiding]

that's good to know, thank you!

[@brigitteitg]

Thank you for the info! Sennelier’s Quinacridone Gold also contains PR206. I only recently bought W&N Brown Madder and Permanent Alizarin Crimson and haven’t even started to use them properly. I don’t think I will miss PR206 too much, as there are quite a few alternatives available, like PO48 to add to the quin golds, PR179 for the brown madders and PR264 for the alizarin crimson hues. I would feel differently if one of those pigments would be discontinued, especially PO48 and PR264…

[@PaintinHiding]

you make some very good points Brigitte! and i definitely agree with those pigment subs. i only recently started using PO48 more and actually really love it. i’d be sad to see it go too. 🙈

[@hannahthufvesson]

PO48 is being discontinued, so consider stocking up if you have that option. 😔

[@awatercolourist]

PO48 has been discontinued. Sorry!

[@hannahthufvesson]

@@awatercolourist Haha, great minds apparently post at exactly the same time! ☺️ Hi! 👋

[@awatercolourist]

@@hannahthufvesson Well, there is something to brighten up my day after this bad news! Hi Hannah 👋🏼🙂

[@lophoflora]

I can still buy colors with PR206 and PO48. Just in case, I have some stock. I still have tubes of New Gamboge with PY153... 😅

[@vatiammatri]

I found an old tube of W&N Permanent Alizarin Crimson made with PR206. I have it in an auxiliary palette. I don't think I'll hoard it, I'm not attached. I find it interesting though. Maybe I'll compare and contrast it with their new version in PR179

[@PaintinHiding]

luckkkyy!! i feel you, not every colour needs to be stocked up on. my fave PB16, if it ever becomes discontinued i probably wont stock up either.

[@paint_me_blue-art_watercolors]

🙂 I had precogniton about this one 😂 😂 😂 I wanted to buy from Sennelier and I was like naah, and this pigment stucked into my mind even though I have from Windsor and Newton and schmincke, but perylene maroon is better I think so no need to panic 🙂, it is a better alternative

[@PaintinHiding]

yes! love your nonchalant attitude about it :D ah yeah, i guess the more brown version of PR206 is similar to PR179. and that works so no need to panic ;D

[@Renilou2]

Luckily I still have a lot of PR206. It varies a lot in hue from brand to brand.

[@MelanCholy2001]

I know one artist who won't be happy, but I nearly detest PR 206. Sucks because I love PR 83 (and did a wc journal comparing the real aliz crimson with the hues, and really none of the hues "hit the spot" after months of sitting in the journal. There's a pink undertone in PR 83 that most hues just miss, especially W&N's pr206 Perm. Aliz Crimson... but I was using thick layers and the little paintings aren't exposed to sunlight). My alternate PR83 favorites are palette mixes using a carmine (PV 19) and varying dark reds to try to mimic that transparent but deep red PR 83 with a slight pink undertone. (I'll have a cow if they discontinue PR 83! That's emergency time for me 😂 ). I almost went for a tube of W&N quin gold on "Prime Day" yesterday, but decided I'm okay with the PO48/PY150 mixes I have. That brown madder was a temptation, a little. I have one of the Schminkes but it's not on my "refill" list.. 🏓

[@MelanCholy2001]

(Oh: Indian Red by Schminke! That stuff is the BOMB! Dang, and I just missed a Schminke tube sale, too.)

[@PaintinHiding]

haha! i feel you~ we all have our own pigments that we’ll stock up on if any becomes discontinued 😂PR83 is indeed beautiful but i think mine would be PB16. anyway, welcome to the channel! 🥰

[@PaintinHiding]

@@MelanCholy2001 schmincke seems to have sales pretty often so im sure u could wait a while for the next one :)

[@awatercolourist]

How about Da Vinci? Their Quinacridone Gold is also contains PR206.

[@PaintinHiding]

yep, i didn't get through all the brands. i had to go to work lol i just wanted to put out the vid incase people could take advantage of the jacksons 20% sale. it's so cheap! like $6 for 21ml! 🤯

[@awatercolourist]

@@PaintinHiding $6 for 21 ml??!! 🤯 doesn’t come close to describing our feeling!

[@jennw6809]

Well, it was out of stock for a while but it does appear to be back now. So for now DaVinci still has it. Funny thing is, they don't offer just a PR 206 single pigment.

[@ari_9354]

Its sad that a pigment is discontinued, but the winsor newton PR206 especially the perm. Alizarin crimson looks very close to a PR264. Brownish red isn’t my favorite color so i don’t really care that much, i prefer a deep red “red” like PR264 or PR176

[@PaintinHiding]

oh yes! i quite like PR176 myself :D i have the vangogh one which leans a little pink and i love it 😆

[@ari_9354]

@@PaintinHiding oh i might try it , van gogh is super affordable but im eyeing the mission gold one their PR176 is just so beautiful

[@PaintinHiding]

​@@ari_9354 i've tried the mission gold PR176 in a dot chart, actually i think i did a small side-by-side swatch of mission gold and vangogh. here.... (scans at the end) swatch starts at 9:33 kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5u5iIuQnMmEmJY it looks the same but i think the brighteners in the vangogh formula make it so that VG seems the tiniest bit more vibrant so when i tried MG, i felt like it was a little dull because i was just used to VG. that said, now i kinda want to get MG PR176 too 😅🤣

[@awatercolourist]

Hi Vee, all! Is PR206 a low tinting colour? I just received the Rman Szmal version a couple of days ago and I feel that it’s a bit weak. I expected it to have a high tinting strength.

[@PaintinHiding]

check ig dm :)

[@awatercolourist]

@@PaintinHiding Thanks!

[@cyndih4720]

I just got a Roman Small quin maroon today, pr206. Whew! Haha

[@PaintinHiding]

then you're all set! :D

[@floral_doodle]

The Cotman Alizarin Crimson Hue and Cotman Rose Madder use PR 206

[@PaintinHiding]

thank you floral doodle! ;D

[@aeli999]

I hate this. I do use DS Quin burnt scarlet so I guess I'll be looking for a replacement whenever I get close to being finished with this tube. Why do they get rid of pigments? Ugh.

[@PaintinHiding]

probably just because not enough demand i guess?

[@brigette3004]

I accidentally bought like ten tubes of this over the years, in different versions. I keep forgetting what I have and buy more. Happy accident.

[@throughmyeyes9940]

is Cotman pr206 a non-toxic color? thanks

[@PaintinHiding]

i believe cotman are ACMI certified so they should be non-toxic, yes

[@keepyourshoesathedoor]

If they get rid of PV29 and PR179, imma start a riot.🧟‍♂️

[@PaintinHiding]

haha~ are those your fave pigments? or is it because they mimic PR206?

[@jenniefrench1338]

I have a tube but don’t use it. It is just like Burnt orange but with red in it and could be easily duped.

[@PaintinHiding]

ooh thanks for the info! :D

[@awatercolourist]

For those of you who like W&N’s Permanent Alizarin Crimson (Quinacridone Pyrrolidone + PR206), you could try their Permanent Carmine (Quinacridone Pyrrolidone).

[@PaintinHiding]

wait, what? i thought W&N permanent carmine is made with PV19, isn't it?

[@b.lab.__blab_colors]

Thank you 🙏

[@CeruleanCzarina]

I agree! I have both but I actually prefer the Permanent Carmine over the Permanent Alizarin Crimson. I enjoy using the Carmine as a primary mixing color when I don't want to carry both PR122 and PV19 which are generally my primary reds.

[@awatercolourist]

@@CeruleanCzarina Hi, Jael! Thanks for your input. I actually read somewhere that Permanent Carmine is closer to Alizarin Crimson than the Permanent Alizarin Crimson. I’m not sure how true that is, though.

[@b.lab.__blab_colors]

@@CeruleanCzarina hello, Jael! Could I ask you about pigment of your carmine, please?

[@maryannprzybycien2013]

Why is it being discontinued? I wish they'd discontinue PR177. I don't know why companies still use it in their paints. It's terrible in lightfast tests.

[@PaintinHiding]

i believe not enough demand. ahh yeah, that's true PR177 isn't lightfast. well, same goes for PR83 yet many brands still sell those too. i have no idea~

[@vikkiartlover2171]

Is Pr206 lightfast or not ?

[@awatercolourist]

Well, Bruce MacEvoy on Handprint states that it is. All brands have a BWS rating of 7 in tints and 8 in masstone.

[@PaintinHiding]

from many manufacturer's ratings and the fact that it's a quinacridone, yes, it is considered lightfast. thanks for watching and commenting 🥰

[@b.lab.__blab_colors]

Oh!! I read this news on liquitex page. What a bad news. Thank you for this informative video. 🙏

[@PaintinHiding]

@@b.lab.__blab_colors you're welcome ;D and yes i think the news has been going on for about a year but we're finally starting to see real changes in the market now so that's quite sad. :(

[@b.lab.__blab_colors]

@@PaintinHiding yes, I loved the particular color tone of PR206 so it’s really a bad news. Liquitex also decided to replace PR206 with PR179 but PR179 is more red deep and less orange than PR206 😭

[@PinkWytchBytch]

Me casually ordering a small stockpile

[@PaintinHiding]

haha~ that's the way to go! :D (if you order from jackson's i'd really appreciate it if you would consider using my affiliate link. if not, that's ok too~ thank you! 🥰 ) and i don't think i've seen you around before... welcome to the channel! 🥳

[@PinkWytchBytch]

Done and done! And yes very new I found the video specifically because of this paint issue here!

[@ralphcrosby9622]

Here goes the hording

[@PaintinHiding]

@@ralphcrosby9622 🤣 i feel you! any brand u looking to get in particular? or all? 😂

[@awatercolourist]

No no no no 😭😭😭😭😭

[@j.s.elliot7121]

So many colors are being killed in the last six months! 😭

[@PaintinHiding]

i think they've all been said before but just now going into affect. still really sad though!

[@awatercolourist]

I thought W&N’s Gamboge also contained PR206.

[@PaintinHiding]

i think W&N New Gamboge is PR209, PY150 :)