Practical Cubase Guide Ep.14 - Automation vs Midi CC (Controller Change)

[@richardcraven4700]

This is great info. The penny has now dropped about this subject, thanks to your explanation . Thanks

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Glad it was helpful, thanks for the feedback!

[@DCPImages]

Very clear. Very practical. Very helpful. Thank you.

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Great to hear, I appreciate it!

[@douglashazelrigg4377]

I've been using Cubase for 25 years, but I'm ashamed to admit I was never clear on this distinction. I do a fair amount of work with sample libraries, and often saw others creating new lanes/parts for things like CC11 -- Expression, but never knew how they did it -- I have always recorded the CC data into the track itself, which was quite limiting. I decided this morning to get myself educated on the subject, and after going through a dozen videos, none of which addressed the subject, I found yours. Thank you very much for a clear explanation. Cheers

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

I'm really glad you found my video useful - thanks for the kind feedback :)

[@douglashazelrigg4377]

@@OneManAndHisSongs Okay, here it is about a year later, and the impact of learning this from the video continues. I plan to start going thru your tutorials and will sign up to Patreon for the duration -- only seems right. 🙂 However, I have a dilemma. I found out thru trial and error that if you hit "Record" when doing automation it records the data as a new part overlaying the original; if you simply hit "Play," (after having engaged the "Write" button, of course), it records the data in a new lane with the appropriate controller name (i.e. "Expresssion," "Modulation," etc.). But if you have a project where you've already recorded your moves using the first method, isn't there a way to move the automation event to the automation lane? I know, for example, you can convert controlller data into automation data (although right now I don't recall how -- I think it's a drop down or contextual command).

[@douglashazelrigg4377]

I like your tutorials because, unlike so amy others who spend most of the time with the camera on THEM, yours are all about the matter at hand 👍

[@MoonhareStudio]

Hi there - I just wanted to say this is the first clear explanation I've been able to find on this topic. I first used Cubase in the Atari ST days (ERK!) but came back to it about 2010 and have been using the CC controller lanes all that time. I'm very used to editing in those controller lanes but I think your clear and lucid explanation of automation lanes has convinced me to take a paradigm shift in workflow. I do loads of tutorials to help people out with Midi controllers, Cubase, VSTs etc so it's a delight to find someone there to help me out too. Keep up the great work. I know how much work it takes to put these vids together. Subscribed.

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Thank you very much, I really appreciate the kind feedback! I also cut my teeth on the ST! What a machine it was...

[@bonuebonue]

Very helpful and clear explanation! Thank you!!!

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Thank you for the feedback, you're very welcome!

[@Composer_DanielPerez]

Clearly explained differences between midi cc's and automation, Thank you. You got a new sub!

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Awesome, thank you!

[@yams900]

Very interesting indeed, learned a lot about CC and automation ! Thanks Anthony for explaining

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Glad it was helpful!

[@BluesGuitarMadeEasy]

Great considerations. I did some research and found these differences between Automation and MIDI CC that users might want to consider: - MIDI CC can be edited in the Key Editor. To edit automation you always have to jump to the Project window/area and back to the Key Editor, if you edit the MIDI Notes and MIDI CCs. - MIDI CC can be edited with the incredibly powerful Logical Editor. - Automation can handle many additional parameters like the channel’s fader, pan pot, mute button, solo button, ... - Both Automation and MIDI CC can use 'Move Vertically', 'Scale Vertically', 'Tilt', curves etc.

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Thanks for the update! When I made this video MIDI CC couldn't be scaled, but they added that feature a couple of releases ago.

[@totalmusicfreedom]

I can't begin to tell you how much pain and anguish you have just put to the sword for me! I have always been confused between the differences of Midi CC and Automation and couldn't understand why Cubase would sometimes mysteriously combine both in the lanes in the lower pane - now I'm clear. Thanks so much for the great explanation!

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Awesome! Thanks so much for your kind words :)

[@monikamia4857]

I’ve watched this video a few times now, thanks so much!! I have a question though: when I enable writing automation on the track and move mod wheel, is still written as MIDI CC, it doesn’t jump over. What could be the reason?

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Have you enabled Write Automation on the track? If you don't, the CC data will get routed to the MIDI lane, but if you do then the two processes will be in "conflict" (odd word) and the Automation Track will "win". You can't disable recording MIDI CC data per se, but you can OVERRIDE that behaviour by using Automation.

[@michaelhurst354]

I've watched quite a few of the Steinberg videos on automation and none of them mentioned this - interesting

[@kodaotis9891]

pro trick: watch movies at Flixzone. Been using it for watching lots of of movies recently.

[@AlequeVision]

Nice explanation. So why even use MIDI CC? What's the point? And also, is there a way to automate pitch bend without MIDI CC?

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Thanks! The simple answer is that it's a legacy relic from simpler days. As I say in the video I avoid MIDI CC data like the plague - and for the most part don't have to think about it. Pitch Bend is definitely the biggest fly in the ointment. If you're determined to use automation for Pitch Bend, the only way I know of is to Use the "Transformer" MIDI insert. What you have to do is to create a new automation lane, using an unassigned CC value (such as 110), then DRAW in the automation that you'll be using for your pitch bend. Now, go to MIDI Inserts and add an instance of Transformer. Use the following values: Filter Target = Value1, Condition = Equal, Parameter 1 = 110 (it will then switch to read "D7"... ugh...), Action Target = Type, Operation = Set to Fixed Value, Parameter 1 = Pitch Bend. That will do the trick, but... Good God!

[@AlequeVision]

@@OneManAndHisSongs Thanks for your reply. It sounds a bit technical and confusing. If you look at this video (time stamps should be included) kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnmTZYmAbc-rrNE this guy uses a non-Cubase trick to create sort of a wow & flutter (tape delay) effect. He uses a very slow and subtle LFO that controls pitch bend. I was also thinking about using Vibrato effect (besides the Transformer) but it kind of lacks the amount of parameters. If you have any further suggestions please let me know. Nevertheless, thank you for your thorough step-by-step description.

[@Film-Macher]

Nice, but I think you should have mentioned the Automation "Trim" Mode. A very useful feature to fine adjust the Automation.

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Yes, that's a good suggestion. I've actually just started recording a new series called Cubase Fundamentals, in which I approach the subject from the perspective of writing a piece of music from the very beginning. I'll make a note to ensure that I discuss Trimming when I deal with automation.

[@Film-Macher]

@@OneManAndHisSongs Nice. I m looking forward to it. I already knew a lot of your first cubase series. But I still watch it because theres always this one small detail thats making my workflow faster, you had some of them. Especially the Logical MIDI Editor. I didnt use it too much, but now its at the top of my list of MIDI Editing. Thanks for that

[@DmitryLubenskiy]

Thank you. Question: Can I convert MIDI recorded automation (moving fader during recording) into an automation track?

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Thanks, and - yes! I've made of couple more videos on the subject since I recorded that... check out kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGaVpYGOgMiqpqc and kzbin.info/www/bejne/eau7haemnbt5oa8

[@Xserey]

Hi, thanks for the information about this. One quick question, am I able to set the mod wheel as an "expression" wheel in cubase? So I am able to manipulate the volumes with the wheel instead of drawing them in myself? thank you!

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Thanks! The mod wheel is just another controller like any other. I'm not exactly sure how you want to control your volume, but the catch-all answer is to say if it can be done via automation at all, it can be done with the mod wheel. Not every feature in Cubase CAN be assigned to automation, but most can. The best way to find out is always to put the Track QC into "Learn" mode and move the controller. If it maps, it maps :)

[@SilverWolf941]

There's a 3rd party vst that I'm using in an automation lane event, however it uses percentages from -100 to 100. The operation itself is very clunky and inconsistent. If I go to the info line to try to type in a value it doesn't really read that well. Is there a way to switch automation lane data to a 0-127 value instead of percent?

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Automation doesn't use the standard MIDI range of 0-127, so I wouldn't imagine so. I've never attempted to recalibrate an automation lane and haven't seen anything that does that job. Perhaps if you ask on the Cubase forums someone might have an idea: forums.steinberg.net/c/cubase/6

[@JackstandJohnny]

I have Cubase Elements 11 and I dont have the "CC Automation Setup" option in the MIDI tab. Is it not there BECAUSE I have Elements? Do I need pro? I just need to send a command to my drum machine to start playing after my count in on Cubase. Its a simple start/stop command and nobody seems to know how to do that. I need Cubase to tell my Presonus Studio 1810c to send the song start command to my Korg EMX-1 sequencer. I have the paid version of Cubase Elements 11 but now Im worried that I need to cough up the extra money for "pro". Thanks in advance.

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

I don't own Elements, so can't speak to it, but here's the comparison chart: www.steinberg.net/cubase/compare-editions/

[@Hash-vo1hi]

Any help please? I’ve got a new midi fader so I can use for string expression, dynamics etc. All the sliders (8) are automatically assigned to a different function. Is there any way I can change this so that the sliders will only work once I’ve assigned them, rather having them all already assigned? Thank you.

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

You can attack the problem from both sides: from the device itself or from Cubase. You'll be able to configure what MIDI CC data the device outputs for each of its controls. On the other side of the fence you can also control how Cubase responds to that particular device - ie what actions it takes in response to each of the different MIDI messages. I've made a recent series of videos discussing MIDI as part of a larger Cubase Fundamentals course - see if this helps kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGaVpYGOgMiqpqc

[@yams900]

How have you worked out all these things out ? I gather, must be years and years of experience, blood sweat and tears :)

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Pretty much :) I've been using Steinberg software since 1988 (Pro 24), so that helps! There's also the odd time when I get the urge to read a chapter of the instruction manual. A little light reading before bed, you know the thing... ;)

[@Stewbert_72]

Hi I am looking to do program and cc changes that I can export as midi file and import into a backing track player called m live b beat in order control my line 6 helix . Is this easy to do in Cubase ? I have failed attempt doing this in studio one where studio one and my laptop are successful in controlling the helix but as soon as try export that file into the b beat it doesn’t work. Want pull trigger on Cubase if it works

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Sorry, I don't own a helix so wouldn't like to say

[@jeremytorres1715]

For some reason I am not able to get Modulation CC1 or Expression CC11 to show up in the key editor. They only show up on the track.

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

That's weird. You don't have any odd options set in the MIDI Controller Automation Setup? Can't imagine why they wouldn't show up in the key editor.

[@jeremytorres1715]

@@OneManAndHisSongs No, I have the default settings. I am not sure I fully understand the difference between CC data and automation when it comes to the key editor.

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

You'll only see MIDI (i.e. CC) data in the key editor. If you have your Mod Wheel set to "Automation Track", it won't show up in the key editor because it's not CC data. If you right-click the track in the main view screen and select "show all used automation" it should show up there. As a test, try enabling Write Automation (the red button on your track), recording a small section, and wiggle the Mod Wheel. See where the data ends up. It sounds like it will appear as automation data on your track. If you WANT to record Mod Wheel data as CC Data (which I don't recommend), try setting the record destination explicitly to "Midi Part" and see what happens then. It should appear in the key editor. I think your life will be much richer if you abandon CC Data completely and never look back :) Automation is the future!

[@jeremytorres1715]

@@OneManAndHisSongs I really appreciate your help. I did however do exactly as you said and the CC data is still not showing up in the key editor.

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

@@jeremytorres1715 Hi, it's a bit tricky tracking KZbin comments beyond the first one because (incredibly) there's no facility for sorting comments by date! If you ping me a mail to [e-mail] we can carry on the conversation over there. I'll do my best to help you figure out what's going on. For starters, what happened when you did the mod wheel wiggle test I described above? Did the automation show up anywhere? I suspected it would appear in an automation lane on the track. To see if this is the case, you need to right click the track and select "Show All Used Automation".

[@michaelhurst354]

Just found this video that shows an easier alternative to drawing pitch bend as automation data without using the transform plugin. Still doesn't allow you to record it directly from the keyboard to the automation lane, though... kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqnRdXyrhs6KsMU

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

Excellent find! Yes, that's much easier than using the Transformer. I'll make a note of this for future use.

[@arthybogarthybog6082]

Hi. Sorry for my English. How can I record automation using the Cubase virtual keyboard (modulation pitch)?Thanks for the answer

[@OneManAndHisSongs]

It's not something I've ever tried. I've just had a look around and can't find anything that would do that job (i.e. there isn't a virtual wheel controller as far as I can tell). Sorry. Perhaps ask on the Steinberg forums?

[@arthybogarthybog6082]

@@OneManAndHisSongs thanks for the reply. I will try