Pre-shading, why I think it's a rubbish technique!

[@michaelhedenby7464]

Black basing & marbling works quite well as long as you do not overdo it. Chose a couple of panel lines and work around them. Brake up the effect by using different shades and tones when you lay down the marbling coat. Lay down the cammo and return with some post shading in the same manner. And research, research, research.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

I still think you can tell its got a black undercoat as the paint is translucent to some degree.

[@SEMJW]

Given the choice for scales 1/32 and larger, I create the 3D surface that aircraft with stressed skin have by material removal rather than using paint to mimic the look because the model is three dimensional. The results are always superior when striving for realism. Many techniques are cross overs with figure painting which uses paint methods to trick the eye. As a example; The 1/10 resin bust forms of pilots will use paint to represent what is suppose to be the clear lenses of the goggles. I prefer removing the resin and making a clear lens to fit the goggles. There maybe a application for a pre shade with two Tamiya 1/32 F4Es I have to build. They will be JASDF KAI that have subtle tonal variance. Otherwise I agree with all of your thoughts and would rather do post paint techniques.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

3D effects look awesome

[@MetaHughJorgen]

100% agree. And when judging a contest, I consider the grid-type (or plaid, as I like to call it) preshading a failed attempt at weathering that potentially can knock a model out of medal contention. If there is a dispute, I ask for a photo of a real airplane with gigantic dark stripes along its panel lines. No one has been able to produce such a photograph. Hopefully it's just a fad, and a few years from now we can look back and laugh at how silly it all was. Thank you for doing your part to help us all evolve.

[@MetaHughJorgen]

To clarify, it is the striped effect that I abhor, and technically it could be postshaded instead. And preshading could be used to provide a mottled paint effect that accurately replicates the variations in color and finish that are present on real aircraft. It's a valid technique. But the term "preshading" is generally used to describe the unrealistic dark stripes that form a grid following the panel and rivet lines, and that's what I hope we can move on from.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Thanks mate

[@simonbor77]

I never pre-shaded my models. When I started to get serious about my painting and wanted my model to look "used" I started with black basing (using multiple color marbling to shift top coat to reflect bleaching or dirt, a s sort of introduction to next weathering steps). Then I started to paint planes silver and then again lay multiple colors underneath main one to get effect I was after (in both approaches I never focused on panel lines). It obviously depended on the subject. Spitfires did not faded as much as early F4Us. Right now I am making 1/24 Spitfire and I started with black base, that I painted some smudges in direction of wind flow, uneven. All this was covered with main colors, that were not painted to even 100% opacity, I left some sections (wing roots) patchy. I then plan to use some wash for panel lines and rivets (including silver wash rivets exposed by walking on them) and use oil paints to make it look even more dirty and worked on (around gun panels, engine panels, etc). I might then add some smoke and exhaust stains (most likely with airbrush). My goal is to to keep semigloss paint, but with matt accents in worn or smekd areas, just like on real thing. Not to make everything matt - that seems boring to me. Planes usually have satin or semi-gloss finish unless they are used in the desert environment. That is my approach. I might add one or two random panels, that are "freshly" painted as a contrast. Jamie - maybe you make one, longer video when you focus only on your paint process and whole reasoning behind it, that will explain it in details? You could explain how it then plays with next weathering steps, etc..

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Different sheens are often overlooked too, good point.

[@Greg420_scale_models]

Great point of view Jamie👍 I'm a pre shader for my sins , but really like your method of post shading so I will give it a go on my next build , thanks for the advice.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Cheers Greg

[@Greg420_scale_models]

No , Thank you for sharing your knowledge and modeling alchemy, and hope you had a fab time with your family 👍

[@janvolek3040]

The key part about post-shading or paint effects on top of the camouflage for me is the ability to reverse it or go back and forth, rather than the "one way street" of pre-shading. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Jamie!!

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Cheers Jan

[@carlsmoot2939]

I tried pre-shading (panel line shading) once or twice back in the early 2000s but it wasn't giving me the look I was after. I struggled with that final tipping point, usually going too far and then having to lighten panel centers to get a similar effect. The panel lightening was more pleasing to me, especially when I wasn't consistent with the lightening of the centers. But I had not entirely understood the need for thinner paints yet which often resulted in the subtlety needed being overdone instead. When I found out about black basing in the twenty teens, it made a lot of sense, especially after I finally realized the importance of thinning the paint. However, I am still not satisfied with this approach. As you mentioned, it can work well on lighter colors such as light grays or white, but I find it tends to darken nearly everything else and I end up post shading anyway to improve the appearance of the model. After my latest two efforts, I am beginning to come around to the idea of simply post shading and using a gray primer underneath. For lighter colors I think I will stick with the black basing / marbling approach as it tends to look quite realistic to me. You also mentioned how you post shade lighter colors along the panel lines (rather than in the centers of panels as I have been doing). I want to give this a try because it seems to make more sense. However, I also think I need to start using more reference photos to get my builds to better match reality instead of some stylized idea of what might be better. I realize that as modelers, we have to sometimes over accentuate to make it look, so my changes will be done while keeping that in mind. Thanks for the chat video as it does reflect something I have been thinking about for a while now. And like others have mentioned, if you are so inclined, a deep dive into your painting and especially the reasons behind your decisions, would be much appreciated.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Doesn't really matter what the undercoat is mate as long as the top coat is opaque. Maybe I'll do a deep dive on one of my upcoming models?

[@LabLifePiper]

Food for thought. Some good points to consider.

[@tompotter9064]

Totally with you on this. Very difficult, if not impossible to correct pre-shading, if you get that "Oh shit", moment. Not so with post-shading.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Fact Tom!

[@paulsmodels]

I don't do any "pre-shading" just a bit of weathering here and there. To me the biggest factor to keep in mind is in painting, and weathering that looks realistic to the scale. And forget trying to attain a museum quality, or a show worthy display model. Whatever makes it fun for the builder is what you should do. All the rest is striving after the wind.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Some good points Paul

[@larrywisniewski282]

My 75th birthday is just around the corner. After many, many years of modeling, I arrived at the conclusion that realism is the prevailing theme in my own value system. The most common alternative, having fun with artistic license, just doesn't hold an attraction for me at all anymore. I can accept that there is validity in the artistic license approach, but only if realism isn't strongly impacted by it. I am increasingly impatient with videos that ignore the need for keeping these two competing values in some sort of balance simply because weathering has become an overly dominant theme in contemporary presentations. Overemphasis on extreme detailing presents a similar conflict as well but is almost too rare now to worry about. There seems to be a preoccupation for one-upmanship in many authors work that I find very annoying. Evidentially, some folks think that it's just fine to allow excesses to rule in the video catalog regardless of their impact on how time is spent. As I got older, I became aware of my own pending mortality in ways that only us old farts can appreciate. Basically, I want a clean, realistic result with a carefully monitored expenditure of time in my modeling efforts now. When and if I weather, I need to respect these evolving views. I know this is typical old fool lecturing wayward youth stuff to most of you, but it nevertheless may come to haunt you as well as time takes its course. I use the computer more than ever simply because it requires a low energy input from me. I'd like to think that video contributors sometimes take this point of view seriously and rein in their material so that folks like me can continue to enjoy their efforts to entertain and educate. Videos that advertise themselves as "Build" in nature but turn out to cover actual construction merely as preface to their real fascination, artistic license driven weathering, should be billed more precisely so that I can avoid wasting time on them. I get nothing out of panel enhancing via pre and post shading and find excessive uses of washes "to enhance detail" to be just too extreme and degrading of visual character and accuracy in general. All art forms evolve, but sometimes in the wrong direction when reality is disregarded too often. Study photos more and look for evidence that your technique selections are appropriate..

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

References are essential!

[@Tzeka]

Thanks Jamie, you are absolutely right, always thought the same. It's extremely difficult to put just the right amount of paint over the pre-shading. It's much more easy to achieve such effects with post-shading, oil dot filtering etc. And using exactly the same kind of modulation over EVERY part of the model is the death of any wheathering technique btw. Repetition kills realism. My personal pet peeve when it comes to this is panel line washing. No, you don't need to accentuate every single panel line. Often times the real shadow of it is just subtle enough. Try to keep panel line washing to movable parts (like elevators, maintenance hatches) or panel lines which are prone to accumulating dust on the real aircraft. Study photos carefully. AND: This is especially true for (A) 1/72 and smaller and (B) for kits with very wide panel lines. For example, I have seen many Airfix or Italeri kits which looked very nice after the initial painting and then the builder applied a panel line wash and the model gave the appearence of a die-cast toy. With an extremely pronounced grid of wide dark trenches all over it. Final point about this: It's also possible to use other colors than black for panel lining. A just slightly darker mix of the base color beneath it can do wonders..

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Art vs Realism has been the main talking point since cave men were carving antelopes from wood!

[@FinsburyPhil]

As I’ve recently returned to the hobby, I’ve been trying different techniques that I’ve seen advocated on YT. The conclusion I’ve come to is that I’m happiest with the result when I’ve followed the natural, real life sequence i.e bare metal, primer, top coat, markings, fading, wear, dirt.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

A good approach

[@jonathanmormerod]

I've seen so many prize-winning models at shows where the pre-shading has been vastly overdone. Judges seem to love it. This is why I'll never enter a model in a competition - the judges.

[@MetaHughJorgen]

I urge you to reconsider. Better yet, do the modeling world a favor and volunteer to judge! And then share your insights with the other judges.

[@JasonMcChristian]

You do realize YOU can become a judge, right?

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

I've only entered my models in competitions for fun, if I lose to a superior model I'm happy as it's deserved, if I lose to a poorer model I just shrug as that's competitions. I have heard the phrase "that one must win as it's been dry brushed and that's a very advanced technique" when the model looked frosted! Maybe I need to do a video on competitions?

[@SMAZVidoes]

I am in agreement with you. Gave up on this technique many years ago.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

🫡

[@davevans_WW2_models]

I would agree with you Jamie, i tried pre-shading before and found it far too easy to overdo the top coat and lose any effect from the pre-shading. I think it is mainly down to not having good control yet on the airbrush as i am still new to using it.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Post-shading is a great way to improve your airbrush skills Dave

[@kevinskb1184]

Hi Jamie, Nice chat video… like you said - I personally try techniques I see on-line etc from modellers who I feel I can learn from. I’ve been pre-shading for a while now and agree that it’s a huge time investment and the results are not always what I was chasing. I’ve seen you express similar thoughts on your other videos and I’m going to drop the pre-shading and experiment differently on my next aircraft. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and skills 👍

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Thanks Kevin

[@Mors_Inimicis]

Great discussion. I’ve never pre-shaded but I do ‘black base’ a lot . That said , recently I have been experimenting with post shading .

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

I do find that a black base doesn't work when you can see it coming through, it just looks like the upper colour is washed out and hasn't been applied correctly.

[@spacedock873]

Very interesting to hear a view that differs from the perceived wisdom, although this video is specifically about preshading panel lines. I have always thought the same - it is only the panel line itself that is dark (assuming that it is recessed), not the area around it as well. Rather than preshading with an airbrush, it is also possible to preshade with panel liner paint (usually enamel or oil) which gives a better effect, but your point about losing that effect with multiple overpainting coats is still valid. Preshading areas such as recesses, undersides and shadowed areas is a better use of the technique, often as a compliment to a zenithal highlight. As a mainly Sci-fi modeller, I once saw a YT series by a guy building a large scale Star Wars Star Destroyer - he black-based it, mottled it, gave it the translucent base coat and then spent weeks panel-lining and carding it. The final stage was a "mist coat" which he ended up putting on too heavily and obliterated all of his work, turning it into a plain grey ship! 😳 He had the bravery to put that video up but needless to say, it was the last in the series!

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

I bet he stopped doing it after that!

[@DarrellThompson47]

All the reasons you mentioned is why I've never even tried pre-shading - I've never seen the point of it as I've also believed it's just easier doing everything post. Like you say, some people pre-marble and get a great effect, but wouldn't it look just as good doing it post and give them the choice to adjust things, just like with your models?

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Marbling as you go along works, over a black undercoat does not in my opinion.

[@MrPDoff]

Love the vid. In full agreement with you including the last point. Its your model and thats what counts at the end of they day. Pre shade,Post shade or not at all. Just enjoy what is a fun filled and interseting hobby

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Thanks mate

[@erikwade3668]

I used to preshade religiously, but in recent projects I've done a lot less and thanks to your comments on it I may not use any on my current project. I've tried using filtering as well, but I'm not very good at it because as you said by the time I'm done with camoflage and decals it's usually gone. Where I suffer trepidation is upon introspection prior to execution. Am I avoiding a technique because I don't like how it looks or because I'm just not very good at it? That's a question that plagues me from time to time during some builds.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

It's all practice mate, taking the lessons from the previous models and improving

[@erikwade3668]

@@thescalemodellingcafe I'm not so sure. There are some techniques that I've been trying to master for decades and I seldom get the results that I want. Mostly the filters and weathering type stuff. I either overdo it or underdo it- I seldom hit it right where I want it.

[@kitbuster]

A touchy subject but you handled it well , used to pre shade now I don’t bother, I usually lose the effect during painting so wasted effort, I do however preshade Modern jets to get some life into them

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

I still think there are far better techniques to inject life into them mate

[@MrJ027]

I found your yellow Z-37 particulary helpful on the post shading Jamie. If you add a colour to the basecoat and have too much in the spray gun do you chuck it or put it back in the pot??

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Back in the pot, if it's worth it.

[@TonyJ86]

Almost every BF109 kit ever looks like Mrs Merton's patchwork quilt. It really bugs me. I've tried pre-shading, black basing, sandwich shading, meat pie shading and just about every other shading technique out there. I've had decent results with Doog's "sandwich shading"/black basing method but like you say it is just so damn time consuming and on more than a few occasions I've blown it all with one coat too many and ended up having to post shade anyway. The best model I've finished yet I did a mixture if both black basing and post shading but its questionable whether or not any of the pre shading made any noticeable difference in the end.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Which is why I prefer post shading, opaque colour, infinitely more controllable and way faster.

[@darrylmasters5032]

I might use pre-shading on armour but only in lighting high spots, tend to do this to save base colour paint tbh, as once weathered lightly tends to be ok. No I've never used it on the few aircraft of the few I've built I tend to like a nice smooth grey primer and go from there.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Even on armour I'll post shade!

[@wasrio1403]

I agree its a waste of time. A better result is achieved with oils either as a wash or panel lining. Subject matter and context are important however. I don't even get the black basing process, that takes even more time than preshading.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Fact!

[@chrisgriffith1573]

I am not a huge fan of pre-shading either. I go about it in the way a real aircraft is painted and how it gets worn paint, so, there is metal, then primer, then color coat, then decals, sealer, then sand back threw the paint layers to get wear in the places that would have it. Dirt and grime goes over that. It is a lot easier to make shading over than have it show threw something.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Fact Chris

[@kitbag9033]

Something else to consider is the scale; 1/144 needs very delicate treatment, whereas the 1/24, or even 1/16 for armour modellers can take more contrast. Also worth noting is that certain areas are subject to heat, oils & fuel which does gather and emphasise doors and panels, not all, just some. Worth a check of pictures of the prototype to get right.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

The smaller the model, the more subtle you need to be. But your point about reference pictures is THE most important point of all.

[@ralphford4302]

I have had many issues with pre-shading. In so many cases I see dark pre-shading in areas that are completely inaccurate especially on fabric surfaces where the rib is taught and should be worn, being raised it also catches the light, yet it is pre-shaded dark. Secondly I totally agree that it is too uniform across all the surfaces instead of those that do show dirt, grime etc buildups.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

🫡

[@ralphford4302]

@@thescalemodellingcafe as a longtime avid follower of your channel i wish i could say i know what that reply means

[@jamiehaggo6584]

@ralphford4302 , it means I whole heartily agree with you mate. (Reply sent from my personal account).

[@MannsModelMoments]

I 100% agree with 10-30% of this! lol I 100% agree that YOU think it's a rubbish technique. I also 100% respect your opinion and how you do your models. You also make some very valid points about technique which people should consider before they start. BUT (capitals because it's a big but...no, not like that...anyway....;-) ) A lot of this is preference on how you are looking at models, which will differ with the way others will look at models, and the way that people execute the technique. I get what you are saying about "realism", but we're also not gatekeepers of the hobby. I've seen stunning models that are not "realistic" - both under-weathered and over-weathered, and Nigh Shift has talked about this too on how he's departing from realism to do what he wants in terms of expressive artistic style. There will always be people who agree with you on this, and people who vehemently disagree. I personally disagree, but in a qualified sense, because pre-shading is a technique I hold in my set of modelling skills/tools, and sometimes I use it and sometimes I don't. If I do use it though, it's importantly NEVER in isolation, and always in combination with other techniques. Anyway, long comment, would be good as a discussion topic sometime!

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Hi Alex, thanks for the dit. Maybe a topic for a live chat sometime?

[@MannsModelMoments]

@@thescalemodellingcafe Absolutely! 😁

[@peterrose3942]

I used to pre-shade, not anymore! I entirely post shade now, but I have seen black basing with white mottling on modern US navy jets at IPMS club competitions and it looked very realistic to me. Just for interest Jamie, how many clear coats do you put on before decaling?

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

I tend to polish the colours, then I just need a very thin single coat of GSI Creos GX-100

[@JamesA2]

Ooohhh another rant! Let me get my coffee and bickies🤣 As it happens I totally agree, never did like or get on with Pre-Shading. Post shading all the way for me too. My Halfpenny worth, is that post shading is imitating how wethering actually happens. From the top surface through to the undersurfaces, not weathering from underneath to the top coat.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Absolutely James

[@ljscalemodels526]

Hi Jamie, really interesting video, I wish you had done a few months when I try pre-shading on 1/72 Lancaster - wasted my time camo covered it up, post shading sounds tricky cheers Liam

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

With everything Liam, post-shading just takes practice.

[@ronaldbyrne3320]

How about a video on the different techniques and a comparison of the results? I have never tried preshading so I’m undecided if it’s better or not than postshading. I believe preshading may work better on armour rather than aircraft models because of the heavier weathering involved. I need to try it and see.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

I don't think I can bring myself to do pre-shading or a black base coat mate! I think all my painting episodes so far are adequate to be honest.

[@ronaldbyrne3320]

@@thescalemodellingcafe good point. 😀

[@scottisles3688]

Nice video Jamie, was worried by the slightly click-baity title but the video is well-explained and says the right stuff within it, i.e. it is your model, so do with it exactly what YOU want to do with it; however, this is why it doesn't work for me etc... far prefer these reasoned arguments than some of the diatribe you can witness on Facebook/forums/KZbin blah blah. I've been "playing" with pre-shading the last few years trying to find the right balance on it, and like most techniques it is highly nuanced - I don't think it is rubbish; however, I wouldn't say it works on every single subject. Firstly, pre-shading I would say is more of an artistic effect rather than a realistic one - all of my models I try to achieve a degree of realism with a hint of artistic-ness within them just for some visual interest. Some times I hit the mark, other times I don't! I also think pre-shading works really well with certain colours: underside German WW2 colours like RLM65 and 76 works brilliantly; RAF Sky and Medium Sea Grey; USAAF Neutral Grey; Japanese Amber Grey... a selection of examples! However, I do agree when it comes to camouflages and such, it doesn't quite hit the mark, or it is an effort that ends up being wasted. I also think pre-shading is best when it acts as the first layers of many weathering/modulating layers and it isn't just a one-and-done. Using block colours such as blacks also makes it quite stark, so tinting the original base colour with a suitable dark colour does help achieve better tonal harmony. I do get your point about using a lighter shade for the panel lines, which like the dry-brushing with a darker colour, goes against modelling wisdom but is now something I wish to try as it is the opposite to what I have done. I have a little 1/72 Hispano Buchon Movie Star on the go which will be perfect to try this theory out on - so thank you for the tip! I also just need to be more confident with post-shading, as I find post-shading has more jeopardy in it as your frightened of ruining a painted and decaled model by that stage, whereas pre-shading is harmless. Plenty to chew over, so thank you for the tips and thoughts - time to adapt, play around and see what methods work best and when!

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

I tried to make a reasoned argument rather than get all arrogant and Ranty

[@kevinkerlin5603]

Agree with your view of the pre shading

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Many people do

[@garoidodubhaill]

I really don't like tartan aircraft as I call them, they do look ridiculous. However, people to tend to faun over them at shows i notice. Modulation can work, but requires quute a lot if masking and as you say, one pass too many. Preshading has its place but I'm veering away from it. Personally, I have neither the skill/patience for post shading but I agree, it does look better.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Post shading is just practice mate

[@jlcsr9163]

I like your thoughts on post shading but it takes a lot of practice with your airbrush which is not easy for beginners. Wouldn't oils work as well and are easily fixed if you screw it up.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Oils give a very different finish, both compliment each other.

[@Glazed_Donut1776]

New sub from the USA Jamie. Return to the hobby in 1/72 after a 40 year hiatus. On topic and I'm working through the oil post techniques.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Welcome back to this great hobby mate

[@NJBamforth67]

I tried it once and no difference so I don't bother now think it's a waste of paint and time xx even primer been using flat black a light coat works well xx

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Yep

[@slotcarpalace]

I absolutely agree with you, total rubbish! In the first place aircraft are Not made of dirt. Metal or wood or fabric, then the paint goes on and only then do aircraft get worn and tatty. Secondly, how does one get a true colour of paint when one mucks around to let the pre-shading show through. Just more more model fashion victims. Remember the days of India ink panel line detail? Nonsense. Cheers, Cranky in Canada.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Cheers Cranky, I agree!

[@quantumplastic]

Totally agree 😉

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

🫡

[@jaws666]

I have never seen the piont of it and never do it

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

🫡

[@jaws666]

@@thescalemodellingcafe its a waste of time and paint.🤣🤣🤣

[@Looney2ing]

Grrr unsub ASAP.... from a pre shader. But I totally agree on all your points, I've found pre-shading a nice base to start from. For a new modeller it's a great start. Just before blackbasing or post shading.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

It would be easier for the new modeller to go straight to post shading I reckon! Why start with a poor technique?

[@daveyr1]

Never tried it. Don't see the point when i'm gonna paint over it. Washes and oils for me.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

I do find post shading, altering the tone of the top coat does add an extra layer of depth.

[@rustywarrior5288]

25 seconds in... sandbag pulled up.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

😀

[@CFster]

Think black basing is much more realistic than panel line shading.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

I think it's just as bad owing to the fact the upper coats have to be opaque to let the effect to work, so it doesn't look right as the undercoat shifts the tone too much. It looks odd to me.

[@albertoromanocovasso308]

… 👍🙂

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Thanks mate

[@degs7693]

I absolutely HATE preshading.. no matter which model it is.. shadows just dont work that way, it gives me straight a garbage unnatural look to models. We have panel lines, wash products, pigments, chipping methods... stop doing preshading on EVERY edge&line on your model. Shadows dont work that way

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Yep, it's just not realistic.

[@perskjelbred7099]

Modellers have gone too far with preshading, postshading an panel wash. Models have grids, not found on the real plane!!

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

It's a fine line between a bland model and an over done model

[@JasonMcChristian]

I completely agree. Post shading gives you complete control. Preshading prevents that control.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Fact mate

[@jaredtaylor7777]

In defense of presiding; I don’t think it’s the technique that’s incorrect I think it’s the modeler that is wrong. My motto is you shouldn’t be able to identify the technique, be it pre or post shading, filters, chipping etc if it’s easily identifiable, then it’s probably over done. Here’s one that gets my goat; when a modeler free hands a camo pattern and starts with the outline, they tend to leave a dark “ring” around said border. The opacity should be uniform. It’s even more egregious and noticeable when a lighter weathering coat of the base color is used. Since no one wants the color to cross over to the boundary color they always stop short making the dark border even more noticeable.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

I still think any technique where an undercoat shows though doesn't look realistic at all, the paint needs to be opaque.

[@davidwhiteley3879]

I've long thought that preshading is a marketing gimmick to separate your money from your wallet (as a good fraction of aftermarket modeling items are). I would love to see award winning models of yesteryear (Pre Pre-Shading) compared with the award winning models of today. I doubt even an above average modeler would be able to tell which are pre-shaded and which are not. But those that can do pre-shading are obviously highly skilled, but are they really reproducing a replica of the actual aircraft appearance or a piece of art? I've looked at photos of real-life subjects and models of them (approximately same scale for both) and the panel line treatment I've see on models of today are non-existent in the photos (unless the subject has been exposed to weathering for years and years or is fresh out of the factory prior to painting). I've also personally seem numerous aircraft up close and personal and the panel lines don't jump out unless the surface is raised, painted a different color, or chipped from servicing.

[@thescalemodellingcafe]

Not sure how painting black lines over panel lines/rivets is a marketing gimmick to be honest? It is a fine line between getting an interesting model and one which looks a bit silly, hitting the balance between realism and art is difficult, a fully realistic model will probably look very bland!