LFD and LFR - Blizz Regret?

[@Yarzu555]

LFD and LFR didn't effect player skill true, but it effected the player's mindset... which is way worse imo.

[@bodbyss]

By giving gear to lesser skilled players, it diluted the pool of player skill you could recruit from. So unless your guild never recruited, the feature affected your guild even if you don't like admitting it.

[@canhnguyen-uj6ox]

A vast majority of players who only do LFR will never look to raid seriously in the first place. That's why they ONLY do LFR. So they wouldn't be in the potential recruitment pool to begin with.

[@arthurvandelay4225]

I quit raiding when LFR came out because it fixed the biggest problem I ever had with guild group raiding - SHITTY HEALERS.

[@CapOfXav]

Affected... not effected

[@kaigreen5641]

As a healer, my problem with raiding was always shitty DPS and shitty tanks. Go figure.

[@swaggyz860]

who remembers lurking on the who list?? "Hey down to do ZF?"

[@gruffgruff92]

best thing is that it worked xD

[@LilChrill]

I think you forget a big (in my eyes) consequence of both systems: The lack of social interaction - and when it then happens, the interaction is usually toxic. Before LFD you had to interact with people to get into groups (and raids) which of course is inconvenient, but was good for the community as a whole in my opinion, as I personally rarely ran into toxic behaviour - a huge contrast to today. Furthermore before LFD people formed relationships, got into guilds etc. via the interaction from doing dungeons. This is probably what I dislike the most about LFR/LFD.

[@jpedrote5]

LFD and LFR killed player interaction. BLIZZ is stuck with LFD and LFR because they, at some point, started building their entire community based around it, and removing it will kill the game. Sad but it's the truth.

[@UkrRusSlavic]

I gotta say that as an ex mythic raider who took down mythic blackhand and Archimonde in WoD and took down Heroic 25 Garrosh before it became mythic. I used to think in a ridiculous elitist perspective and hated people who play LFR and believed it shouldn't exist. Used to think BC was the best era and spend ridiculous amount of time just forming groups outside of guild nights. Now that I'm a casual who just doesn't have the time to commit to a raid and progression I'm enjoying calmly playing the game doing whatever and Legion lottery giving me pretty good gear, and I'm satisfied because of it. Blizz don't take away LFR or LFD, but they should create new incentive to help mythic raiders commit to playing high end difficulty though.

[@SLSAMG]

Stop spewing nonsense.

[@UkrRusSlavic]

Cool.

[@Kiwicrack]

going back to the capital city to look for dps in chat. Never forget.

[@jvjd]

This was a great discussion vid . Highlighting +ves and -ves without acting like a docuhe( pretty difficult for the youtube community tough) . Big like

[@BruceKarrde]

Yeah, I enjoyed it as well.

[@SigFrid1985]

I would like to upvote this video several times, tbh.

[@madnes1991]

The Cata heroics being too hard meme needs to stop. They were moderately challenging and required knowledge of CC and your class. Those heroics were some of the best both visually and mechanically ever implemented into WoW.

[@Zuroslav]

That Ettin boss in Grim Batol was bullshit, probably the only dungeon boss ever that was recommended to use two healers

[@cata112233]

@@Zuroslav They were annoying because if people didn't know tactics, they would insta-die on certain bosses and either slow down everyone or just wipe the whole group.

[@Mochachocakon]

I think LFD is what created this sense of "Rush rush rush". MMO's were more about taking things at your own pace and the community, not the gear grind. But when you take away that layer of "negotiation", you get a very hollow MMO experience. Even after all these years, going onto a private server and creating a dungeon group felt like the run had that much more weight to it. It made me feel more invested in something that was otherwise pretty simple. The best though is that after the dungeon run, if everything went well, you made friends extremely easy. I haven't bothered talking to other players in WoW for years (outside my guild), not because I'm anti social, but because I just don't need to outside of social engagement because almost everything is soloable or queueable. I mean, look at Ultima Online, Final Fantasy XI, and Everquest. These games made doing things by yourself a pain in the ass or impossible. But in exchange, it created a tightly knit community of players who all had to struggle together and while these games are pretty low population, the community feels extremely rich and inviting and are still very much alive. And queue's were never really needed, I don't think anyone asked for a queueing system until it came about on it's own and it was so convenient that it killed off every other form of doing content (except raids but now that we have merged servers, even that is kind of spoiled). An argument you can make is "Well I don't have as much time as I used to." but that's not correct, the only thing that changed is your expectations of what playing an MMO is like, I knew a guy who had a full time job, a family, and kids and only got to play for 1-3 hours a day back in TBC and he completed way more content than I did because he decided to just make more out of his time instead of complaining. Honestly look back to when you were first playing MMOs, the value of the game was never in the endless gear grind or raid mechanics, the value was the people you shared your time with. If you are just doing everything by yourself or without communicating in an MMO, then you're basically just playing a really bland single player RPG that just happens to have other people running around in it.

[@SawErKulbain]

Mochachocakon wow definately need a better community. and call me what you want but the eu realms gone shit since russians joined xD

[@jamessalvatore7054]

+Saw Puzan its got nothing to do with nationality, man. The gameplay Blizz make affects us all as human beings.

[@Nightstalker314]

wrath 5man difficulty created "rush rush rush", combined with the ilvl gap at the end of the xpac + tanks dps > actual dps. the tool changed very little of the established gameplay.

[@algebraist1997]

I agree with this, but we have Mythic plus groups now, and although I'm forming a group to clear content that may be challenging, I don't feel like it has the same weight as say, vanilla. We also still have people forming guild groups for raids - there I get more enjoyment. So, I think you're on to something when it comes to what may have ruined the experience, but I think it's more than just eliminating that feeling of 'negotiating' as you say.

[@Nokiya]

Played on Lordaeron warmane last year which is WotLK with RDF disabled. It was miserable experience. The way you group up is by sitting in Dalaran and spamming every 10 seconds. Imagine when hundreds of players are doing the same thing at the same time. Its just a cesspool of looking into the trade chat for hour or two. It was absolutely miserable and anyone I asked or played with thinks the same. If you play tank or healer of course its a breeze, but DPS its pure misery that no one should experience anymore. Thank blizzard for their grouping up tool for mythics, its fantastic. Without it its pure aids.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

LFD has both good and bad points with it leaning towards the positive. LFR has both good and bad points with it leaning towards the negative.

[@Zarakie32]

I feel LFD/Crossrealm killed server communities. Back in Vanilla/BC I knew or recognized every guild and many many players. Now I don't know anyone outside my guild. I had players on the enemy faction that I had built a history of fighting in EPL. You don't get that feeling in wow anymore. Its all just random people that you will never see again.

[@KnightWhoSpamsNi]

@TGS exactly.

[@havtor007]

Wierd i had 4 guys just this week i met in LFD system on different days of the week that i met at least 1 or 2 other days. It seems to prioritize the server/server cluster i am on.

[@TheDinkcool]

It was kinda nessecary though. Consider that an overwhelming majority of the game's releams are completely barren and the game would be more or less unplayable for the people there if not for these systems. And the death of certain releams is something that no one could have stopped, it was doomed to happen from the start.

[@ShiyoKozuki]

Licking Gecko Thats the developers fault.

[@sparda9060]

@ Licking Gecko That is all blizzard fault for fucking opening 30 realms on expansion launch and never close them down or merge low pop servers into medium ones in mid or late expansion. That problem only existed due to Blizzard negligence of all these empty ass servers and when new players create a character the game automatically choose a fucking empty server for them as default to play in, further extending this problem instead of putting them on a medium or high pop server as default.They said that it would piss off players who on low pop servers cuz they be leaving people they play with there, well no they don't fucking care as long they have someone to play with. Thus the bandaid fix called crossrealm zone came into existence where all servers are homogenize into a gankfest based on CRZ groups.

[@kingkabong]

Spot on with this video. The early days of standing around cities trying to get a group was what really killed things for me.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

How you find the strength to be a both a father and a raider is beyond me.

[@yahkamo]

I agree with you to some extent about lfd. I think you're missing the perspective from the other half of the pop pool who didn't raid, but still played the game anyway. For us, dungeons were the most challenging social content we faced. It was like raids for nonraiders. Even by wotlk, when a great deal of players began to start raiding, dungeons weren't seen as "trivial" as you probably took it and certainly nowhere near as trial as they are seen now. In dungeons you learned such basics like how to hold aggro, how to be sensible in tagging mobs, managing your threat, turning mobs from the group, and of course, not to stand in fire. It was teaching you the basics of raiding and fulfilling your raid role. A LOT of people simply didn't know this stuff back then. You'd see protect warriors dpsing, hunters using there pets as tanks, healers sometimes healing sometimes dpsing. Warriors in cloth. Hunters needing on int gear. Nobody knew anything. Back then, for non raiders, when you ran dungeons you notice the other players who actually knew how to play their class, or at the very least, wore the appropriate gear. And if they thought you were the kind of person they want to run with, you could form a makeshift partnership with them when you could. And maybe they would help you again in dungeons or outside too. And maybe they knew someone and it was a trio, and maybe one was in a guild and the next thing you knew, social bonds were formed. All that is gone. Also, remember, for non raiders questing was our bread and butter. Now a days the relationshp between questing and raiding and dungeons is very slight. However back then, 9 out of ten times all quest chains in a hub concluded in an instance. You'd do fifty quest in a zone and the only way to see the payoff (besides exp) was to do dungeons. Some questines required you to do multiple dungeons or to go back and forth within a dungeons back to hub back to dungeon. Some dungeon quest only opened if you progressed far enough in a questline. This is all to say , for you, dungeons were trivial content just to give you trivial gear, but before dungeons = wow for most of us. It's where we met players, where we learned our class, and the ultimate conclusion to 90% of the game story lines. Now dungeons are just big exp dumps for most players.

[@luceenderlegend2769]

I fully agree w the left system but. And the Lfd part as well. When my dad cleared Lk10H he woke me up at 4 am and screamed in excitement about KILLING THE BOSS. He wasn't all like, THE DRAUGHT OF SOULS DROPPED. It was the clearing of the boss that was achieved not the acquisition of gear. I think it changed after icc

[@sherpagoolsbee8390]

This is an interesting topic. It is one that is circling many other massive multiplayer games. @ 11:00 - What you say in horrible about having to set aside time over the weekend to do what is considered trivial content, also makes you feel invested in that group. You give more willingness to play better and help the group out the best you can, because if you don't then it will take another significant investment to get into another group. This investment also creates gaming events and experiences that are unmatched because of the level of commitment to the team. Either way you fall on this topic, I am happy that developers and community members are talking about it. Thanks for sharing :)

[@Katabatic44]

I really don't remember manually finding groups to be nearly as tedious as you describe. Id stand in a city for 15-30min "LF tank and 2 DPS steamvaults" and as long as their gear didn't completely suck we'd go. It also cripple the social aspect of WoW and server communities. Its no coincidence that 90% of my friends in WoW came pre-3.3. I always was a casual for most of my WoW "career". Back in TBC wanting to do dungeons and raids is what made me want to continue playing the game. Sure I didn't have the time to raid but on weekends i'd try to do some dungeons, maybe some raids every once in a while (karazhan, gruul only haha). Made friends, went with guildies/friends, had a blast. I saw all these "badass" raiders sitting in IF showing off their gear and I wanted to be one of them one day - I wanted to see the raids and get the awesome gear to be powerful. That was the carrot on the stick for me. Now that i'm able LFR that carrot on a stick is completely gone. I get to see the raid, cool. The gear from them usually doesn't look any better than older gear so its just covered up by tmog, you cant really show off anymore. Tmog has kinda ruined the gear exclusivity aspect because now you don't know if someone is a badass just by looking at them. They could be wearing anything. They could be wearing fucking greens and you wouldn't know until you inspected them. I still think tmog is a good feature overall, its just something that compounds the LFR issue for me.

[@TheOzumat]

Yep, completely agree with you on transmog. I use it, but I miss being able to instantly tell who's a badass by just looking at them. Or rather, I did, before I quit in WoD.

[@LlameStarcraft]

Yes, Preach is either using hyperbole or straight up lying when he says dungeon groups took hours to just form, unless he is specfically talking about low pop servers or some specific dungeon runs like BFD full runs which took like 3 hours if you weren't in raid gear.

[@matthiasbayer6694]

My personal gripe with LFR has always, since its inception in DS, always been the fact that it effectively hampers the generation of more raiders. I've seen it personally through leading and managing casual to semi-hardcore raid guilds over the past 5 years, the raiding population is gradually, slowly, dying off. Every expansion it becomes increasingly hard to still plug those holes left by Jimmy who left because he became a father, or Dorothy who got a new job. There are just far fewer 18-25year olds pushing into higher tier raiding (i'm talking purely about heroic to mythic, or previously heroic) than there are veteran players leaving the raiding scene. Now ofc there are multiple factors at work there and not just LFR, but I sincerely believe that LFR has been a major obstruction to coercing new players into braving the challenges of more organized guilds, scheduled raids, etc. Player coercion, unlike what many will hysterically scream from the rooftops, is not a bad thing in a game. You need structures of incentive and challenge to promote that literal "progression" as a player, as a character in a game. LFD chipped away at that, but the benefits far outweighed the drawbacks in that case. LFR effectively hamstrung that entire structure in the game design, and began an ever-increasing trend of players feeling the "need" for ever more convenient and rapidly accessed content. At this point many newer players are absolutely outraged (!) at having a timegated story being told with Broken Shore, for example, or that they cannot hop into Nighthold LFR on day 1 of raid release and clear it out in 2 hours. It is sad. And raiding guilds are dying off at an increasing pace, with LFR being partially responsible.

[@Kyle0073able]

I played WoW from vanilla to the very end of BC. Then real life made a few choices for me and I had to quit. And it was several years later when LFR/LFD were implemented that allowed me to fit WoW back into my life. I am a casual player through and through and it's LFR/LFD that keeps me playing/paying and not giving up or compromising with the other elements of my life (family, work).

[@bran4457]

Grav343 I know this is late but your argument contradicts itself. You are telling him not to ruin the game based on how you want to play it, but you are perfectly fine if the game is ruined for him just so you can feel "immersed". Not everyone who plays WoW wants to dedicate hours at a time in order to receive marginal gains. Or is this news to you?

[@Asin24]

LFD = Generally a good thing to me. LFR = Pure Trash, virtually no benefit. That said, having something like LFR but perhaps original content I DO think would not be a terrible thing to have but it has to be its own original thing and as such designed for it. If they want a 'experience x content' option I think the best way to do it would be to make such a mode a solo mode done more like a scenario perhaps giving a more 'storymode' to it. How LFR is now though is purely detrimental IMO to the game.

[@Strrroke]

LFD is clearly evil. This feature is what contributed to killing in-game community and sense of immersion the most. The reasons dungeons are now trivial content content is LFD. Without it Blizzard wouldn't have to dumbify them.

[@cadoriusgaming6973]

I started playing towards the end of TBC and never had the opportunity to get into a dungeon prior to LFD but opening that content created a huge amount of convenience that I was able to meet new people and make friends in a game where I had previously just been playing for the story. LFD created for me a goal to be a better player because prior I genuinely had no idea how bad I was. I was content with running dungeons as a high school student but with the release of Dragon Soul LFR I was totally stoked to 'raid' and again it pushed that goal further for me to get into more raids. See and experience more content and during SoO and the implementation of flex I was able to take another step toward being a better player when I was accepted into a group and downed my first ever truly end content boss in the form of Heroic (Mythic) Galakras. That sense of achievement has spurred me on and I've gotten aotc for multiple tiers of content and none of that would have been possible for me if I hadn't been able to start with LFD and LFR

[@hippaul]

Preach just said something that reminded me of how unique vanilla was in terms of strategies. You brought up "Who's gonna kite drakkisath?" Which is funny because we never kited him on my server. We tanked him with a warrior and would have another ready when conflag hit.

[@Phetus1337]

I love ur vision on this. all of it seriously 10/10

[@Gravyon]

I definitely agree that there is some merit to keeping LFR in the game, though it should definitely be a tier behind. This would be great encouragement for the players who don't participate in organized raiding to dip their toes in. I know that my first step into a raid guild followed years of nothing but LFR and I've never looked back.

[@tawnos1787]

Completely agree about staggering LFR by 1 tier. Been touting that opinion myself for a while now, and the night I watched your vid where you first said the same thing was a very vindicating evening for me.

[@ryanwooldridge7546]

i loved the game in WoTLK before LFD because it helped you make friends online who you would play more group stuff with. and also there was more of an incentive to be a tank or healer as you got groups quicker than just queuing up now as dps

[@4o1production]

I've played since villain, hardcore from launch until halfway through WotLK, and then casually after that. I remember both systems and enjoyed actually looking for a group. I was able to forge friendships, meet other of the server, and build up my own personal reputation as a player. However, now as a more casually player, I love the LFD system to find groups it is such a time saver! I have raiding guild now, but I used the LFR for MoP and Warlords. I enjoyed seeing the content and the story without having to wait for Nobbel to make a video on it. I'd only need to pop back in for a month or so to see whats going on and get my "fix" in. The system Blizz has gone now I feel is the best system we have seen a lovely mix of old and new.

[@Kunori]

Well, on the one hand, one memory I have about pre-LFD is when a member of a party I'd joined for Wailing Caverns was misbehaving, ninja'd an item et cetera, and my fellow party members decided to complain to their guild leader... who then contacted me to confirm, having partied with me in a dungeon or two before, met me out in the world a few times, and seeing me as someone who could be trusted on the matter. And that was rad, and it's not something that happens any more. On the other hand, there were a lot of dungeons that I never did before LFD, and before LFR I'd stepped foot in a raid maybe two or three times, when other people in my guild were in one that needed an extra person and figured a subgeared resto shaman was better than nothing. So I'm grateful for LFR, and I think for LFD as well.

[@Traumglanz]

I don't get it. Who in his right mind would stand in the city and doing nothing to find a group? All you had to do was to type /join LFG or /join SNG or whatever was the private channel on your server, join that player created global channel and announce your group there while doing your farming/questing around the instance you wanted to play. Everyone standing on OG and doing nothing was in my honest opinion not only doing it wrong, but being silly. Considering that this was reducing the time to find a group for something like a UBRS raud to 5 fucking minutes … as a DD … I think it is save to say that this worked a lot faster than the current LFD system.

[@EXOdagr8t]

First off, hats off to you preach. God bless you and your children for addressing the issues and responding to the comments. Now then, the problem is the playerbase. Did a lot of people leave wow because of real life / jobs / growing up? Yes, most likely. But what about those who were dedicated? They didn't leave for the reasons above, they left because the game changed. Blizz shifted focus from them to the people who, as you said "sub after each new wing, clear, and re sub". That isn't a sustainable business model. The dedicated are the ones who will play all year round, and neglecting them in favor of a quick buck and micro transactions is what gave way to WOD-tier sub drops.

[@fatslapper49]

Nailed it!

[@EXOdagr8t]

Well said Matt. I honestly think the market has room for another vanilla wow style game. A world you explore, interact with, and can see players of all colours. Grind would need to be reworked, get more writers to work on interesting quests that have stories tied to them. Imagine if Westfall (old) had you taking out non-respawning mobs to open up the way to deadmines. Or if we needed to do some undercover stuff to sew hatered between the orcs in Burning Steppes to open up the assault to Black rock Mountain. I think there is room in a theme park MMO to have all these things, while still being what almost everyone fell in love with. My quarrel is that WOD was almost entirely meant for the facebook player, and not a veteran. And the downward trend is present. I don't know, I'm sad the game isn't what it used to be...

[@Chidsuey]

I can still remember being at Blizzcon and watching Metzen take the stage. While swinging his giant hammer around, he opened with "I don't know about you guys, but I'm tired of standing around in Orgrimmar and Stormwind all day!".

[@silverspear21]

Pre armory and pre achievements. Attunments were a plus. Pugging the old way lead to many invites to guilds and offers for a raiding spot. I enjoyed explaining why bringing a rogue to heroic BM could work and convincing pugs to bring me along.

[@renebaan7430]

video right after the web show, feelsgoodman

[@647586]

There was a premade group finder before LFD, it even automatically made groups; problem was it was it didn't quite work properly since it was introduced (at some point in vanilla, I want to say circa AQ or Naxx). It would frequently let full group matchups worth of players sit around without matching them, and some people even ended up getting confused as to why they were suddenly in a group and would leave immediately. On top of that, pretty much nobody used the tool. I doubt many even realised it existed. It's possible it was retired some point before LFD came out, but I don't remember actually looking for it at any point past TBC's release.

[@KevsShwaShwa]

6 years later I can definitely say these make the game 150% better.

[@IamHoly....]

You are Preaching...And you have hit the Nail on the Head.. Putting My hand is Up 7 years playing just this game..Now i have a family Shit!!! I got too go in trouble with the misses...

[@belisarian6429]

One of ideas that could partially solve it would be to have content tiered into raids by difficulty. For instance in raid that is assault on some kind of big citadel, LFR would be fighting enemies outside, Normal would be fighting enemies on the walls, heroic would be against inside of citadel, mythic would be against big bads in the middle of citadel. Sure it would reduce amount of content, but on the other hand it would motivate players from LFR to ascend higher. And even if they would not see mythic content they could still get feel of being part of big army, they would know that while they are fighting with armies, top guilds are taking on bosses. At least that is feeling I kinda had years ago on original Vanilla, I was part of mid range guild, we were taking on MC and BWL and we knew that top guilds on our server are taking on Nax, partially uniting server into decent community. Maybe idea would need polishing, but I think if implemented properly, LFR would fit right in.

[@brianbates3127]

I started playing late TBC early Wrath and I remember standing in stormwind for hours trying to get a group together. At first it was something of an adventure, a little RP going on, getting a group together to go off and kill the big bad. That feeling doesn't last and no way would I trade the convenience of LFD to bring that back.

[@matthewjackman8410]

I've always thought it would be cool if for all pre-cap dungeons (not raids) they awarded far less xp than they do atm, but each day you logged in an played for a short time (up to a maximum of 5) increased xp gain by a percentage of the base. That way people could log in an quest for a bit on weekdays and get a huge dungeon xp boost on weekends. That way people experience a bit of all the content and feel good about it.

[@Blindnudge]

I think you got one explained really well Preach but yes time do to and que is so mych faster then pre :GF and LFR. Nice vid thanks Preach Gaming Team

[@DahvPlays]

As a player who doesn't have time to properly raid, I appreciate having a tourist mode

[@zilvis1140]

DahvPlays just dont play or do mythic + dungs

[@Grandlongbow]

Yeah, just stop playing the game you enjoy because other people don't like how you play. That is a logical choice. /s

[@korkowow1664]

During MOP as a joke I said to a buddy that lfr is so relaxed that you could go into one and not do a single ounce of dmg. sure enough I did and just ran with the group and afked during boss fights, the worst part was not a single person called me out lol

[@tomasbradle4761]

Grandbow are you serious or sarcastic?

[@canhnguyen-uj6ox]

Yeah, sound like a very reasonable response: If you dont have time to play, just don't play even though you want to play. Fuck your desire to play, I don't want to have watered down contents in MY game. Play it my way or GTFO. See how you're not a dev of a video game company?

[@yethz8858]

Only time i enter LFR is to do the "kill this boss quest" and its super convenient for that. I can just auto attack and eat breakfast. I dont mind it staying as it is neither would i if it got removed or reworked

[@aquadonkey.]

without watching first the biggest thing about it for me was it made the world feel less full of people, i remember back in the day of sitting around doing nothing but lfg for blah instance for hours in trade chat, it sucked t first but thats how i found good friends and players that i eventually stuck with til endgame when some joined the same guild i was in or i joined theirs

[@s0n0fsamm]

Plus the groups were totally based on your server, so if you were on a small server you were screwed lol

[@SawErKulbain]

Syizzle this^ i missed so much content in early wow

[@s0n0fsamm]

I was lucky enough to land in the top guild on my server, so most problems people talk about I never experienced personally, but I did have friends who never saw entire parts of the game until lfr/lfd

[@madness2112]

Good video. I'm a former top 25 world guild raider that just doesn't want to put in the time but still wants to see the content, even if it's a watered down version of it. LFR helps for that.

[@TheOzumat]

But don't you get tremendously bored after the first run?

[@madness2112]

Sure and it's not challenging at all. But I don't do it every week. I'll go if there are gear upgrades but I don't run it weekly just to run it.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

To be fair about when LFR wings come out, thanks to the various quests from campaigns and stuff WoW has done for the last few expansions they involve raids in some way shape or form. So even if a player is not a raider perhaps they want to finish their campaign and need to do the latest raid to do it.

[@TSIXGaming]

black market vanilla and tbc still give 10x the mmo game immersion and enjoyment. goofballs schilling this retail garbage is why they keep making the game for toddlers.

[@justanothergamer3166]

I played for a short while during TBC, and although I was only around 9 or 10 at the time, I just felt so lost, whereas when I joined back in early Cata, I felt as though I knew a lot more about the game and felt as though I could play better, not too sure whether it was just my age, or if the game truly was so much harder back then.

[@spike4eva666]

I'm a Wrath baby first off, but lfg is how I learned rotations existed. Someone was kind enough to inform me that my rotation as an arcane mage is a simple 'arcane blast' spam. I'm very grateful for that first dungeon I ever queued into while leveling my first toon lul.

[@jonnydu76]

i created thousands of raids / dungeons on Medivh back in the days, a little french realm, you could make or destroy the reputation of people joigning your raid, coz we recognized people we already played with, the social part of WoW was really a thing. It was amazing creating a raid from scratch with people really involved into the raid... I miss those days and i know i'm not alone.

[@kaigreen5641]

My favourite memories of WoW came from WotLK raiding. The two that stand out the most were being in a 10man only guild and racing against the top 25man guild on our server for the server first 10man Tribute to Insanity achievement, while we lost the race by about 5 minutes, we did get the achievement for doing Tribute to Insanity in 10 man only gear, which we then flaunted at said 25man guild, and felt like we won the moral victory. The other best memory I have is when I switched to said 25man guild for ICC and on our first kill of Lich King Heroic, with Arthas nearly dead, we lost half the raid team to an idiot mistake and I was left to solo heal on a Disc Priest for the last 20 secsonds or so, which honestly felt like it was at least 2 minutes lol and with my final breath before I died, Pain Suppressing the tank which gave the few people left alive the time they needed to trigger the end of the fight. I felt epic, probably the most epic a game has ever made me feel.

[@Spinexus]

I was a normal mode raider in Wrath and i really, really liked the LFD system back then, fast and easy daily^^ However since WoD and the LFG tool i heavily prefer that system cause its nearly as fast to get a group if not faster in some chases + i can choose my mates!

[@harold105]

You will always take the player with higher item level, or the class that most easily excels at that particular instance though. LFD lets people do dungeons and gear up quickly indiscriminately. Mythics using LFG is a great step up from that.

[@Spinexus]

I said i liked LFD^^ I personally just dont use it at all anymore.

[@draphking]

I got my friends to play in TBC and we had a blast leveling up by questing, exploring and running to do the dungeons. I haven't got anyone to keep playing this game since Cataclysm because all they would want to do is spam the dungeon finder then act surprised when they hit max level within a couple of days and got bored. So many bad things that are weighing this game down outside that will never be fixed.

[@nudgetted2005]

I joined WoW sometime before they pur LFD in. I remember being low level and wanting to run dungeons but could never find a group. I'd sit hours shouting everywhere to try to put a group together, I got to run 2 dungeons Wailing Caverns and Maraudons. When they put in LFD, I could run all the dungeons I wanted, I had so much fun. I got really invested in LFD. When people say they wanna get rid of it, even though I don't even play WoW anymore, it always hits me really hard because LFD = fun to me.

[@mhdoe]

LFD and LFR are optional for anybody and does not need to be used if you do not like it I for one appreciate both of them. The days of sitting in Shatt or Dal waiting for guild members to log or spamming trade to put together a group to run a dungeon are gone and do not miss them at all. The only thing I see that has hurt some parts of WoW are the trolls and rude answers you get if you dare ask a question in trade. Now this is not new and trade has been like this since day one but in the past couple of years it seems like they are the only answers you get now when a few years ago you could get some answers and meet some decent people.

[@redglazedeyez6652]

LFR LFD...one of the best things invented. Quick raiding n dungeons. also great to practise specs and learn mechanics

[@Freebu]

One thing to say the LFR and LFD systems have it pitfalls but that being said it's a nice thing to have. I was a hardcore raider from Vanilla till Wrath. Now with life catching up it's hard to spend so much time playing i do enjoy the LFR on the old content. (returned to wow after the end of TOS). But now going into Antorus with a few friends in a regular guild brings it all back. Sure I'm still getting into the game after missing whole WOD but the experience is so much better and rewarding in terms of satisfaction for getting the boss down while still trying to get a grasp of the new mechanics in legion. I must admit that I was shocked to find out that Normal raids are so easy. I've been reading guides - watching ptr kills before my first raid to see normal steamrolled :)

[@gary6631]

This feeling is why I love the mythic + system. Its a nice convenient way for people with less time to get that progression feeling. Back in mop all my friends and I just had time to do lfr and then we just dicked around or pvped because there was nothing better to do. Played since vanilla, raided till cata. People don't have the time to raid anymore in mmos.

[@burningsporkdeath]

The one thing I've wanted with LFD in particular is a player rating system... say 1-5 stars, people with a higher rating (from group members on previous LFD runs) get bumped up higher in priority on the que. Extra rewards for not being a douchebag would also be nice.

[@theflyingdropbear2009]

What I like about LFR, isn't the fact that it's an easy way to complete a certain bit of content, but the fact that it allows me to get gear to push me towards being part of my guild's raid team, I treat LFR as a bridging point, as it will assist me in getting that gear I need. As most raid teams require players to have a character to be a certain Item Level. my main goal has always been to be at the highest level of raiding, I am constantly trying to improve myself, so I can reach that target and LFR is merely a means to reach that end.

[@Jarski225]

Excellent analysis, you rock, thanks!

[@herogamer555]

I was one of those players with not a lot of time back in BC and wrath, I could only usually get a group for a daily heroic run. Not being able to do dungeons that much made the ones I was able to do so much better and more memorable. Also, it didn't take hours to form a group as long as it was for the heroic daily. I was on a low pop server during that time and it didn't take more than 20 minutes as a dps to form a heroic daily group, as long as I wasn't trying to do it at 2 in the morning or something.

[@alyeanna]

MISTWEAVER MONK GUIDE COMING !!!!!! I'M SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW!

[@Apoxiosis]

honestly idk how cross-realm didn't make it on the first list. it seemed like a good idea at the time, but as we moved forward all the phasing issues became uncontrollable and all the realm hop exploits for this/that/the other(most recent one being realm hopping to farm wyrmtongue chests), I can imagine someone at blizz is thinking "ugh, why did we make this?"

[@Eladonir1]

I would imagine that as a developer you would want as many players as possible to see what you have created as possible, and LFR, and LFD does that extremely well. If you don't have the time to commit to organized raiding, and deal with all the requirements that it takes for you to tackle the challenges it takes to clear some of these raids, LFR is just right for you. They break raids down in to multiple parts, and you always know its gonna take about X to get in, and Y to get out, and you have a good idea what you are signing up for. I wouldn't for a second question the passion of someone for the game who only plays LFR, or think that they are somehow less invested in this game, than someone who is raiding mythic. The reality is that some people put other things that is not WoW in front of their list of priorities, whether it is their job, or family, learning etc. and with what little time they have, they can still log on and find something cool within the game, and LFR and LFD is part of that. Even if you remove these systems, there might be a fraction of them that move into normal difficulty raids, but it's still gonna leave wast majority of casual players out in the open, with now a lot less to do in the game, and a lot less likely that they stick around. Unless you substitute the removal of these systems with additional content, you will see players leaving very quickly. Since there would be considerably less people seeing these raids, that almost certainly gonna mean that the money for that additional content, will come from the resources that would have otherwise been spent on raids. LFR and LFD is something that is just far too valuable to just be removed. LFR does have a chance to drop mythic levels of gear, which is i think quite dumb, but at the same time we have to think about the likelyhood of a titanforge of that level happening. I would consider it something similar to farming a mount in an older raid. It is extremely rare, and if that wouldnt be the case, every guild would have made raiding LFR mandatory, which they obviously don't. Casual players are very important part of the game, and they are often target of a lot of abuse that they really don't deserve. If people are so bitter towards them and drive people like them away from the game with their rhetoric, then WoW will surely die, and its not gonna be because of Blizzard. You might not like LFR, or LFD, but before anyone would be advocating for anything drastic such as removing these systems, know that decisions like that can affect others, and they are gonna hurt them more than you might realize.

[@Matt12347]

leveling through dungeons now on a warrior and watching videos during queues, these days with the xp shrink on lower levels its more like specific queue for a dungeon once, do the quests and then queue specific for the next dungeon cause you went up 1 to 2 levels wearing heirlooms, It may not be as fast as blasting through quests in some zones especially in off peak dungeon hours but its a good way to level with minimum effort, Ive seen the world plenty of times I dont need to see it for the 20th time on an alt on my new server.

[@Kenny-jg8ld]

I loved when lfd came out i never had to lvl again

[@mathewcarlson1314]

Thankfully The only thing I do on wow is rp. At least that community on U.S. Wyrmrest accord is incredibly strong and connected. Really LFR and LFD has helped us tremendously. Well, easier to get transmog gear. That's about it.

[@kaplsnfjhsmw]

I would never have seen any raid content without LFR. I love it. raids are really cool and bc of preach i know i might be missing out, but that is okay because its how much time I want to invest.

[@fatebringer3931]

Absolutely agree, LFD did not create bad players, "They have always been bad players and now we interact with them". I run a lot of dungeons Heals and Tank, 1 because it's what I'm best at it and 2, the dungeon insta-pops are awesome for heals and tanks! LFD, has however, spawned some massive ego's, especially in tankers. Additionally, out of 10 dungeons, I may only come across 1 bad group, but we can still manage to complete it. LFD is exactly what you said, "Convenient". I love it and want to see it for Mythic! And OMG!! You reminded me of the Nexus and Occulus and people not knowing how to get back in! Good times!!!

[@SomeBlackDude26]

LFD was the catalyst that helped me get good. I thought there was no point in group content without friends because no one would be willing to help groom an inexperienced player. LFD put me in a group setting in WoW and got me out of just soloing and leveling. Those groups showed me that my current skill level wasn't enough to beat the game's best content. Getting out of solo content with LFD is one of the reasons I raid Heroic/Mythic now. I got to see how bad I was and I wanted to improve.

[@XtrmPlays]

I used to hate LFR, but then I stopped raiding with guilds because my work schedule went from a normal shift to early AF morning shift. So when most guilds start raiding, I'm getting ready for bed. I loved raiding with a guild, but I still want to kill "bosses".

[@baneleaf7025]

Let me start this by saying I did not play in vanilla. I did spend a very large part of BC in a guild full of people that would run dungeons over and over as a guild group. I took that lesson into my first real raid experience during late BC and Wrath to use dungeons to recruit for raids. our main tank and I would spam trade chat looking for people for dungeons and keep a close eye on their preformance to have them in mind for potential raid spots. This worked tremendously and made for a much better community feel to the game. And then came LFD. Now, you have to realize that my LFD experience is different that some others becuase my servers (the battlegroup Ruin from the Chicago DC) was merged with the Brazillian servers during the launch of LFD. This meant that all of the BR players that had just got the game during Wrath since it was not even available earlier were now flooded into our LFG pool. We would have a guildies in group and get 2-3 BR players with no clue what to do, no communication unless you got pissed then they would type in perfect english and try to get you banned by reporting you, and no sense of the game. This would drive a huge wedge between many people on my server and LFD because we were forcibly merged with players that did not speak English and could not play the game. Now fast foward nearly a decade and we have LFR and LFD destroying guilds. There is no sense of community and you have so many fly by night guilds popping up becuase no one has to be in a guild to run a dungeon anymore they just need a tank off spec that they dont know how to play.

[@taunttitan1714]

LFR and LFD are two of the greqtest things added into wow i always wanted something like them when i started wow in 2006

[@splitframe]

Like you said in previous videos the game changed over time and certain mechanics, functions, features and content do not work outside of their "time". The whole standing in cities and searching for a dungeon group really fit back then. Consider that in vanilla epic gear didn't cover such a large level range. There were only three stages of epics, so the high level rares from dungeons were like the first epics in current content. I have really fond memories of doing dungeons, I met my first guild this way with which I later raided. Maybe it is because I never had to grind dungeons that it didn't annoy me as much back then, since we started raiding early and got gear from there. Having said that I do not disagree that by the time WotLK rolled around the LFD system really was a blessing. The way the game, its people and content developed such a feature really was necessary. I wonder how exactly that came to be? Is item inflation one of the reasons for this? Were there other reasons?

[@curleyjoe666]

There is always one thing I remember from Vanilla and tBC tht people always seem to forget, that gets wrapped up in 'making freinds' when it was anything but, was using /who to spam invites on literally every person in the level range of a dungeon. That was not fun and no one made freinds that way, it was super, super, super annoying.

[@teardowndan5364]

LFR is also a nice place to gear new alts at 110 and scout raids that you may have skipped by taking a WoW break before going in a real group for reg/heroic. Also, more casual players who cannot afford to commit to anything beyond LFR are still paying for the game and monthly subscription.

[@TheBoundWoman]

I've been playing since vanilla, I got sick of not getting to see dungeons and raids so I bucked up and joined a guild for BC and WOTLK after being a part of a dedicated 10 man guild for all that time, It turned me off interacting with anyone in wow. I'm glad to have the LFD and LFR, as someone who is extremely anti social now, this is the only way I can experience this content. Is it frustrating at times? do you see really bad players? Yes, but it is all I can have.

[@w543e]

I had the opposite experience of what you seem to think lfr did. Never touched raiding before lfr, didn't have enough time. After lfr came out, I started pugging my way into normals because I wanted to experience the real raids, and have completed almost every raid since dragon soul at least once while it was current.

[@forgamesforme]

at 4:50 people just standing on the tank triggered me

[@NunoPlague]

Why?

[@WrexialMT]

Haha i noticed that as well. that being said, in LFR I'd just be afk tanking it anyways

[@NonsensicalSpudz]

1 rule of raiding don't stand on the tank

[@MisterProscape]

I think a good change would be to tune LFR gear drops to mythic dungeon ilvl and without titanforging either. Current LFR antorus is 915 base and can titanforge. Mythic base dungeons awards 885. Mythic dungeons are in my opinion the best way to get people into organised group content. Making that a more attractive gear source for casual players/ new players would foster stronger communities and encourage better play.

[@TheNacropolice]

On one hand, I miss the old system where you did have to maintain a network of ingame friends which were you dungeon running group. However, the problem there could be either a) none of them online, or b) level ranges not matching up. Also, it was mostly a case of do one or two (depending on length) dungeons and call it a day. The benefits of course were that there was a strong community. LFD/LFR makes life super easy, it makes enjoying or at least accessing game features, super easy. However, the community died out.

[@vkuskov]

I remember time before LFD. And I almost never had a problem with looking for a group for hours. Usually I needed about 10-20 minutes. Less than wait time in LFD for DPS. Waiting hours to find a group might be true for bad players because nobody wanted to boost them for free. But after LFD good players are basically forced to boost them. And I've seen failed LFD groups when 2 or 3 players weren't able to do even simplest things. Not even "don't stand in the fire" level, but "don't know what basic abilities I have" level. And don't forget that in 3.3 Blizzard by some reasons removed LFG channel from the world. So everybody who wanted to find a group in old way have to stay in city.

[@Anaphriel]

I remember sitting in SW in Vanilla, on a heavily populated server and looking at members of 2-3 specific guilds who would walk by, noticing their gear immediately, seeing that guild tag and having a sense of "ooooh damn." I remember filling out guild applications, and getting denied on pretty much everything. My best friend was in a raiding guild and got to see all this content I didn't, not because I wasn't good...but because I was a Rogue. There was no need for more Rogues in raiding content in MC. There was few spots open for it, and I was too late to the party. Imagine, you put months of investment into getting your character to the point of being able to do this thing you look forward to, only to find out that out of the *THOUSANDS* of players of your class, there was only openings for handfuls across the entire CLASS to be able to get in. Fast forward to today...there's not a single guild I've been in that hasn't been raiding to the point of farm on Heroic. A giant handful of guilds progressing their way into Mythic. And you know what the common thread of that social caste is? LFR means absolutely nothing to them at this point. They're not going in, they're not bothered by it, and they don't care who's currently slogging their way through it. We have more guilds than EVER seeing high end raiding, and that is only since the introduction of LFR. There was a giant gap between being able to farm high end dungeons and being able to raid, and LFR added that little half-step that so many people needed to close that gap more efficiently. Is LFR difficult? No. Can you AFK through it? Pretty much yeah. Does it matter to Heroic and Mythic Raiders? Not one single bit. Normal Raiding is *still* and *always has been* the place to learn how to raid properly, if that's what you're after. If it's not your end game goal...your daily quest, AP farming, world quest experience has the capability to be a little bit easier as you can get gear a half step above what you would be sitting at before this change. Did it ruin some of the social aspects? Yes. Did it make some players super lazy about their "raiding experience"? Yes. But, it's an unavoidable side effect. Some people just don't care. They don't want to socialize, they don't want to turn into a hardcore raider. They want that gear that's a half step above so they can make the stuff they *do* want to do a little easier, and to have a little more sense of badassery on their toon that they're happy with not being a Mythic raider. And that's perfectly fine. The people in LFR are people you will be exposed to for 20 mins, and then probably never see again. If they get past it and into a raiding guild doing Norm, they will learn to raid through that experience, or they will have that "oh shit, this isn't for me" moment and leave. Or straight up be kicked from their guild for refusing to learn how to raid. I'm currently in a guild that has the latest raids farmed on Heroic, and slowly progressing through Mythic...and LFR means nothing to me. I don't know who's going through it right now, and I don't personally care. The people I raid with have gone through their LFR experience and moved *WAY* past it. At this point LFR is like heroic dungeons...that's exactly how much of an impact they make on the game, and yet are blown up to be this game murdering design. It's just not true....but what is true, is something that it did truly kill...raider ego. "I have been to this thing that you won't even get to see! I get whispers from strangers asking about my gear, where I got it, and when I replied and they went silent, I knew it was because they knew they would never get near it." Making the mistake of creating and leveling a toon on a dead or dying server. Being the wrong class. Not having 5 hours a day to devote to progression. All these barriers to entry that the raider ego LOVES. It's a claim about separating the wheat from the chaff when it's really not. A lot of these Mythic raiders today would't have even *SEEN* Molten Core...due to their class alone. "Oh, you won't reroll to a Holy Priest? Ok, we'll put the toon you invested so much time and and wanted to play on a 4th string back up rotation just in case the 5 people in front of you with the same time and experience investment as you all get sick at once." Rose tinted glasses work in a lot of ways, and really skew perception for all the wrong reasons. People don't hate LFR because of LFR level players...never have. It's all about how it affects you...and always has been. Even if you're not at a point where it doesn't affect you in the slightest, you may not realize how much of an impact LFR had on you being able to be in the position you are now.

[@jasonu3741]

I remember old school Vanilla inspecting people in Ogrimmar for group invites seems so awkward like when people watch the NFL combine weigh in

[@juanmatiasohara775]

For me lfr is a pretty good thing, i never raided until mop(being playing since tbc, doing pvp since i started playing), doing lfr made me want to do the raids in a higher diffulty(because i wanted to get better and better)so i started doing some pugs and stuff and at the end manage to get a guild, now i look back at those times since it got me into raiding and just for lfr i manage to get into raiding, now i am raiding in a mythic guild and being one of the best rogues in the server.

[@JaxStravig]

I met so many people trying to put those groups for UBRS together. Life long friends I still speak to regularly. Not nearly as many in the entire time since LFD came out. It gave massive incentive to build a good reputation on the server, and as you said, be a good guildie. I also disagree that Dungeons didnt give good gear. There were blues we were after well into MC. It is so convenient that Blizz had to put shit loot into Dungeons because people could have everything within a week. Ahh the glory days of Dire Maul being challenging content. All that said, I agree the pros outweigh the cons for LFD. LFR is a totally different animal. KZbin is as much tourist mode as any game needs. Being part of an exclusive few that could see an end-game boss provided the primary motivation to play the game for me. I really think that if KZbin and Twitch had been a big deal back in the day, Blizz wouldn't have felt like people were not seeing their content. And people COULD raid. They could do 15 man content - UBRS, and 10 man content - ANY end level dungeon, back in the day. The most satisfaction I have ever had in a game was getting home from work late one night after I got stuck, my guild had been wiping on Nefarion all night long, and as soon as I logged in the raid leader said "I need Brunedin in here right now, who is leaving?" We killed him on the 2nd pull I was in there. There is NO better feeling in video gaming than that. I would not count that experience had we been killing him in LFR for week prior. I totally agree with the staggering raid tiers for LFR. Never thought about that solution, and that would be fantastic.

[@echofitwork]

I think the philosophy you have on the game is just different than those who don't like LFR and LFD. When you mentioned taking hours of your weekend to get a group together to do heroic violet hold... I didn't see the absurdity. That's kind of the whole MMO niche. It's not very inclusive, but it creates memorable achievements even if those achievements aren't large in the grand scheme of the game. That's one thing that WoW makes us forget. These conveniences are the very things that make the experience feel cheap and the connection with the world and it's characters lost. It's just interesting to see how many things that were made for streamlining and convenience, do so much to take you out of the investment you may have had in the first place. Thanks for the video, I always take away something from these types of discussions.

[@faelirra]

Problem is that without these necessary conveniences people who don't work (or study) the 9-5 will basically not be able to play WoW. Those who work shifts will have weeks where their free time might be from midnight to 2-3 am where people are asleep. Having the means to instantly que is a god send, people who have work life that is shift patterns shouldn't be excluded from the MMO experience.

[@echofitwork]

I understand, it's necessary for to have an all-inclusive experience for folks, but it's at the cost of what made the experience special in the first place.

[@ChumblesMumbles]

I'll freely admit that when I first started WoW and first discovered LFD I queued right up and got dumped into Dead Mines, the group promptly wiped on the way down to the second boss, and I was screwed - the entrance to the Deadmines is impossible to find and the map is no help. That was one major issue with LFD.

[@handro33]

To start off I am the casual player. I'm totally in the PUG world. I've only done LFR one time and it was fine for me and that's that. I have tried, and do when possible, LFD. My only issue is that I only get about a hour to a hour and a half to play a day. It takes almost the entire time to get a normal dungeon queued. Granted I can do heroics one of my characters but I'm still not a "skilled" player. I play for the fun of it. But when I have to complete dungeons to get through the order hall campaigns and get some basic gear, it is very challenging to queue up and yet never even get one dungeon a week. I've also had some of the worst experiences in my wow life as part of LFDs. When I've only played ranged DPS and now playing Havoc DH in a dungeon that I've only been in one time with another noob tank, some players go completely nuts on the rest of the group. There are good and bad things to me. Overall, I'm happy its there so I can get to some of the content but also the wait time is often times too long. But it is what it is.

[@l0k]

I got old, can't muster the motivation to deal with the guild dramas and set raid schedules. Yes, it was fun back in the day and there was satisfaction in defeating challenging content, but work takes all the energy I used to put into it. Now I'm content with tourist mode. Besides, I feel it is difficult to surprise those of us who raided throughout the first 3 expansions. Not everything can be a flame wreath :)

[@Mjsmecha]

I think you presented a pretty balanced discussion. I will say that I'm the kind of player who mostly enjoys just playing alone to enjoy the world, so I'm very biased in favor of LFR But honestly I might go one step further and say if you want to enjoy raid content just for the story we'll let you play through them alone like scenarios with a team of NPCs, but just not give you any rewards or very little rewards. That way you can enjoy the world at your own pace and be more immersed the first time, but if you want actual gear progression past a certain point then you have to group up. That may not be a good idea but honestly I think having that option would be a nice little addition so if I just want to be a tourist seeing the beautiful raid environments then I can do so. WoW for me is all about story, music, and beautiful environments. So in general, anything that lets me enjoy that easier is nice.

[@drunkenprayer8390]

I've not played for a fair while now but last time I did the failure rate for heroic dungeons post LFD was a hell of a lot lower than before it came in. It seemed almost impossible to spot bad players because the content was made so much easier that unless you're literally brain dead you can roll your face on the keyboard and complete them. Where it became more noticeable is players who progressed beyond that and never adapted once content started becoming more difficult and kept bad habits they developed thanks to LFD/LFR.

[@kevinrex7414]

I started in cata and my first two toons were a tank and healer. I totally did the stay in the city and level. I didn't explore the open world till mop when I started my current main, a mage.

[@xplicitmike]

LFD and LFR killed all social interaction in WoW, and THAT'S the biggest problem with them. Before, you grouped up with other players on your server, made friends, possibly joined or formed a guild. If you wanted to raid, you either did it with your guild or if you wanted you filled a spot as a pug in a different guild, creating more friends and relationships. By the end of it all you knew every guild and most people on the server, and it was great. Now you queue up, no1 talks or gives a shit, even in mythic+, and obviously lfr is an afk button-mash fest. Add in cross realm raiding and the new group finder system and it's all fucked up. I'm ilvl 890 which isn't great, but I haven't actually played with any group worth remembering, or that I even CAN remember, since mythic raiding in MoP. That's a problem.

[@Porkins755]

As a player who can't raid due to work since TBC. LFR and LFG is the only way i can relive my WoW glory days :(

[@Porkins755]

Rude.

[@Porkins755]

Bro, you mad? x

[@OneOfTheLoveless]

I remember trying to make a group for Scarlet monastery(don't know which wing) on my first char a warlock, it always was like, stay in the main city oh you're full lets fly to the dungeon, because nobody bothered to fly, nobody bothered to fly guy leaves group back to the main city and so on and so on.

[@kbdemonbain]

i personally like LFD, LFR i could careless wouldn't upset me if that never was put in the game i agree LFD kinda ruins the leveling system for some cause they just stand in the city and que not sure how you fix that issue without removing LFD cause i agree the world of wow is the best part of the game and im so glad i have all the memories of leveling in those zones

[@Voidwatcher]

I still recall the good old LFG channels and the sense of community it created. Obviously there were no cross-realms back then either so everyone knew about people who were trolls/ninjas/general assgoblins and they were subsequently avoided and punished for their shitty behaviour. Also people who were helpful, friendly and chill got added to everyones friendslist and asked to go to instances and groupquests. In other words, never liked LFD or LFR. EVER.