Why Pikmin is Better than Pikmin 2

[@TheGemsbok]

Quick note: I have not played the later Pikmin titles. When that is no longer the case someday, I will remove or replace this comment.

[@1pokemonfan5]

As a particular fan of the original having grown up with it and completed it as an adult, I couldn't help finding the second installment forgettable save for the childhood memories of co-op battles with siblings. I finished Pikmin 3 last year and found myself nodding along to see some of your suggestions implemented, albeit not perfectly. I believe you will find much to discuss in weaving the third installment into your critique. Thank you for the excellent breakdown and analysis!

[@TheGemsbok]

I've heard mixed things about the third installment, but I am definitely excited to give it chance at some point.

[@goldiethevillian]

Ive played pikmin 3(Wii U) and pikmin 3 deluxe(Switch). I recommend pikmin 3 deluxe since game mechanics and graphics are improved and they added difficulty lvls.

[@TheGemsbok]

That's the plan! I also heard that previously separate DLC content was incorporated into the game, which is how I prefer it.

[@da_pikmin_coder8367]

I'm sure Pikmin 3's been recommended to you hundreds of time, but I do truly believe that Pikmin 3 is perfect for those who preferred Pikmin 1 over 2. If you put your mind in the head of someone living in 2001, it's basically exactly what they would have expected a sequel to be. New features, new *balanced* Pikmin types, emphasis on exploration of areas and not caves. Still a time limit but not with as much dire consequences for failure. I mean for crying out loud, the challenge mode has an updated map of Forest Navel!

[@ChillCoyotl]

For so long I've been unsure about why pikmin 1 has always been so much more compelling to me than 2. It just existed as a feeling I couldn't explain. Watching this video validated that feeling and made sense of it. Thank you.

[@yeltifeltino8070]

I haven't played any Pikmin in many years. I suddenly feel like it's time to pull out the old Gamecube...

[@JP_0306]

Quick note on the 'conspicuous bottle'. That is a Ramune soda bottle, so maybe we can also assume this takes place in Japan?

[@TheGemsbok]

Yes, although those sodas are widely exported (I had many as a child in the US), I think it is very likely that you are correct that the landing areas are in or near Japan. In Pikmin 2, which reuses the maps from the first game to a large degree (implying the same location), some of the 'treasures' include a wadōkaichin coin, a beigoma, and a Famicom Disk System game. While many of the other items are international products, those three seem to strongly indicate a Japanese setting.

[@mr.beamless1609]

wish I knew as much about anything as this man knows about pikmin

[@trentonthomas3127]

He treats these videos like a college level report and will never get the respect he deserves

[@zedxcu]

@@trentonthomas3127 truly underrated

[@mr.blueguy7648]

no, he doesn't. dont get your opinions on a game youve never played from a random video essay.

[@CynicalScorpio]

For the longest time, I loved Pikmin 2 more than 1. But recently I replayed 2, and I gotta say, I find myself agreeing with most of your criticisms. I guess the second one always felt more expansive and colorful, especially as a kid. Which it technically is, but in a way that now feels kinda empty and bloated. The only thing I wish you mentioned was the cave Submerged Castle, the one with the Waterwraith. Because you have a limited amount of time on each floor before the Waterwraith appears and wrecks havoc. In other words, it brings back the time limit mechanic, but implements it in a new and unique way. It gives the cave a sense of urgency and tension, and makes it extra satisfying when you collect all the treasure before the waterwraith appears. I think the caves could have worked so much better if every cave had a unique mechanic to set it apart. Not that every cave needs a time limit. Maybe some caves can have more complex puzzles, or some that are harder to navigate. Just something to elevate them in the same way Submerged Castle did.

[@TheGemsbok]

Submerged Castle is definitely an outlier, and (though sadly still plagued with a lot of the loading/saving/cutscene bloat common to all the caves) certainly a highlight of the experience, with a bit less 'waiting around' than most other caves---as well as being one of the few moments that tries to justify the implementation of the purples.

[@ElKewinCoss]

I was about to comment the same thing. I love Pikmin 2 more than Pikmin, but once I replayed Pikmin 2 I noticed things that I don't know why Nintendo put them there. The most obnoxious thing for me when I replayed it was the intrusive robot tutorial. I liked the cave system but Gem is right, you spent a lot of time in them and most of them are not THAT particuraly "different", I mean, I love how Pikmin pictures nature, I want to see the flora and fauna, the views and creativity put in landscapes, caves are not that "well" ornamented they feel a bit empty and repetitive (Tho I liked the bathroom theme one, it is still weird for me, but I like it somehow, the glutton's kitchen one is straight up weird, it is like getting IN A CAVE and yet you are outside at the same time) Purple Pikmin are OP, I loved them, but they are op. I felt White Pikmin are underwhelming, their poison is not that strong enough to actually have a "limited" production of them, when I lose white pikmins it feels like you are losing a valuable unit despite their poisonous nature. But I loved them anyways. Maybe it would have been better if their poison could "cripple" beasts, making them slow to react and move, that way poison can still deal the same amount of damage and can get rid off potential threats I f**** hate Louie. The dual leader system is weird, I did not felt like I was really multitasking I did not mind the plot of the second game, idk, maybe it could have been better, but thank god it was not much worse. I love the freedom Pikmin 2 has, I hated the race against the clock factor Pikmin has because I like to explore and see every corner of the world, but when I grew up; I realized it was actually not a bad thing.

[@SensDen]

I'm glad to see this take because I feel like Pikmin 2 is the fan favorite. I've played Pikmin 1 and 3 countless times but I just can't get myself through Pikmin 2. It just doesn't grab me like the others do. 1 is just an incredible classic game and 3 is a fantastically refined version of the gameplay. After 100 hours of Elden Ring, I sat down one day and knocked out Pikmin in two sittings and it was so refreshing. The game just makes me happy

[@Nabrashaa]

It's kind of hilarious how intense and philosophical the meaning of Pikmin 1 is compared to how cartoonish it seems. Looks like they got too caught up in the cartoonishness of it by the sequel... And LOL about living above a Chuck E Cheese XD

[@teh_hunterer]

Thank you for this. I never got the chance to play Pikmin 2 back in the day, but having gotten both on Switch and replaying the excellent first game, I was really disappointed in 2. I found the game too grating to persist with - the annoying chanting and singing of the Pikmin, which were purely adorable in the first game, made me start to hate them. The never ending interruptions of the ship, complete with eye straining text. The TREASURE GAUGE. The constant loading screens. The way the caves drag on and on. The complete lack of atmosphere. Pikmin was a masterpiece, and I can't even bring myself to continue Pikmin 2.

[@mrickard3621]

So if I understood correctly… #1 is Pik-MAN and #2 is Pik-MEN. GOT IT.

[@TheGemsbok]

You are an attentive viewer, and a scholar as well. I am in awe.

[@ignacioc.7255]

Another thing i'd like to add to the "Tone section" is the ship parts themselves. The first and only time i've played Pikimin 1, one of the MANY reasons i felt to gather the ship parts was to know what they were, how did they look and what were they for, to the point i approached them closely before even getting the pikmin to carry them just to read Olimar's explanation on them, knowing it would be even more interesting than the part itself would let off at first sight... i even remember going "wtf is this thing" everytime i saw a piece on the ground lol However, in Pikmin 2 they were mostly human trash so no curiosity was ever felt

[@azorbz9286]

I agree, to an extent. In 2, the curiosity comes from the fact that these objects the player is familiar with are foreign to Olimar. Seeing how Olimar interprets these objects is, in my opinion, just as interesting as learning about the ship parts in Pikmin 1.

[@parmesheen727]

Criminally underwatched video. Keep up the great work

[@iamnothale]

This comments spoilers regarding Pikmin 3 story and mechanism and how they compare to the first and second Pikmin game. I highly recommend playing all three Pikmin game and especially Pikmin 3 Deluxe before reading this. I think Pikmin 3 did a fairly great job at (attempting to) combine the element with the first and second game. [Insert essay about why Pikmin 3 is better than Pikmin 2], but to make a long story short, Pikmin 3 did a better job at managing the elements of the first two game. In particular: ・The time limit from the first Pikmin game is back, although it's in the form of how many juice you have and not how much day you have to stay before attempting to escape the Earth. This means if you run out of fruits, it's game over. No bad endings, but still better than no time pressures. ・You now collect fruits instead of treasures like in the second game. That being said, you can only gather seed bearing fruits for the Main Story, so every fruits that doesn't bear any seeds are left behind, keeping bits of the environmental tone from the first Pikmin game. ・The voice acting has improved so far, with the tone and pinch of the captains more fitting to their appearance and personality. In particular, Olimar no longer sounds like a slack-jawed dunce and more of a well-respected, albeit short tempered, captain like we expected him to sound like. The voices for the enemies are also reworked to be both cartoonish and foreboding, ・Pikmin will only sing if you bring in 20 Pikmin of every type to your squad or if you let Pikmin idle (outside your squad) for a long while. No longer will they sing when in your squad. The leaders also sing, but only if you don't have any Pikmin with you and will stop if you stop walking. ・The sound effect for the Ultra Spicy Spray are no longer a childish caricature of farting. Instead, the Captain spins around to apply the actual spray to the Pikmin. It also flowers your Pikmin instantly. ・The envioment brings back the natural atmosphere the first Pikmin game provided while also builting up with the mechanical envioment from the second Pikmin game. And I gotta say, it blend the two very well. ・The Treasure Gauge no longer exist, since no fruits are fully buried. Probably for the best. Mechanics and Difficulty: ・As mentioned before, the time limit from the first Pikmin game is back, although it's in the form of how many juice you have and not how much day you have to stay before attempting to escape the Earth. So you'll have to gather fruits before you end your day. ・Plucking Pikmin no longer needs individual button to be pressed. Instead, one press and the plucking will automatically be done. ・Selecting a particular type of Pikmin became much easier; it now allows only that particular Pikmin you want to throw, no longer getting the other type mixed in for the wrong job (ex. Blue Pikmin mixed in with the Yellow to take down eletric gate). ・The swarming mechanic presented in the first two game are now replaced with the charging button, which allows ALL Pikmin to charge towards the target. ・This was revamped in the Deluxe port, now allowing only a currently active type of Pikmin to charge towards the target; this is incredibly useful when focusing on a task blocked by elemental obstacle (ex. charging Yellow to take down eletric gate, charging Blue to gather underwater fruits, and Rock to take down crystal, etc.). ・The duel leader system in Pikmin 2 has been reworked even futher so now you can redirect one captain to go to a certain place by themselves while you, as an active leader, keep working on something (ex. sending one leader to pluck Rock Pikmin while controlling the other to build the bridge to your base). In other words, multitasking is now possible. ・Puzzlesolving and swathes of terrain now utilized the unique abilities of each Pikmin type and captains, forcing you to use a combination of them instead of cheating your way out with just one of them. ・Bomb rocks can now be carried by every Pikmin, since Yellow now have their eletric immunity and faster digging speed. Handling bomb rocks still remain dangerous however. ・Collecting fruits no longer triggers a small cutscene every time. Instead, said cutscenes are relegated for important things, like the Fire Guard upgrade or the phone that works like the Whimsical Radar (that 5% you mentioned). ・Tutotial cutscenes no longer interrupts gameplay, with important cutscenes pausing whatever task are you doing. This makes cutscenes less annoying than it did in the second game. ・Purple and White Pikmin are now regulated to Mission Mode, with Rock and Winged Pikmin being an essental replacement. Their strength and weakness are balance (Rock are strong, but can't latch and Winged are weak but can carry items over water terrains) as to not overshadow anyone. ・The way you farm the Ultra Spicy Berries are revamped so that the Pikmin carrying it to the ship will automatically go back to the plant instead of having to manually gather them. ・Pikmin 2's cave system was essentially removed, instead being worked on as part of the world environment instead of being by itself. Tone and Story: ・The story has been completely revamped in that it combines the first Pikmin game's environmental tone and symbolism, the Koppai running out of fruit due to their insatiable appetite, with the goofiness Pikmin 2 attempted (and would probably did well if the Hocotate ship wasn't so damn condescending). It was worked on even futher with the Deluxe port with the Side Story focusing on Olimar and Louie's adventures that took place both in the middle of and after Main Story. ・You no longer get email from the captain's boss and family members at the end of the day. Instead, the captain writes their own journal akin to the first Pikmin game, regarding what happened on that day and the mechanics of the Pikmin, the enemies, and random short stories. ・Each and every fruits you gather is of vital importance to the Koppai captain's mission. ・The ending now depends on how many fruits you gather, akin to, although not the same as, in the first game. This means that you can get the worst ending if you gather a total of 33 fruits or the best if you can gather all 66 fruits before you fight the final boss. Also once you beat the game, you beat the game. For real. You only got the Mission Mode or the Side Story, both are optional but recommended to play. ・The Side Story starts off similar to Pikmin 2, although this time Olimar hints about his frustration regarding "nearly dying on a strange planet, then being rescued by befriending and saving one of the local alien species, only to get home and get hit with a notification from his boss to go back to the planet for the monies." Presumably the same frustration you and I experience regarding Olimar being send back just as he got back home. Also has a veteran-newbie relationship with Louie, something never explored in Pikmin 2. ・Both stories have that tension and narrative payoff akin to the first Pikmin game, albeit a bit cartonnier, with a stellar - but short - balance of pacing. Overall, Pikmin 3 did a reasonable job, with its Deluxe port doing even better. The two criticisms I had with Pikmin 3 is that the Purple and White Pikmin are completely nerf to the point of uselessness. No poison pipes exist and Purple Pikmin's strength are completely useless. Also Britany really hates Charlie for no reason. At the very lease, Deluxe works on why she hates his guts, although it's in the form of an optional Piklopedia (which was missing in the original game). That's all I have for the comparison. Pikmin 3 is more fun than Pikmin 2. Sue me. Peace.

[@TheGemsbok]

Haha, I appreciate the spoiler warning. Along those lines, I look forward to reading your comment someday, and (as I've said to many commenters who seem to share your opinions) you make me look forward all the more to playing the third game. Anyway, in the meantime: thank you very much for taking the time to write that detailed review!

[@iamnothale]

@@TheGemsbok You're welcome. Please enjoy your adventures in Pikmin 3. いっぱい遊んでください (Please play it a lot) Peace.

[@capitanpastabase6342]

Incredible video. One thing I have to really appreciate about this review is what you said about tone, especially the sound design of Pikmin 1 compared to 2 (which a lot of people dismiss, since 1's sounds effects are kinda broken and dated). Also, I know you haven't played Pikmin 3 deluxe, but just for you to know, Olimar's voice is WAAY better (it's elegant and deeper than the one in 2).

[@MatthiasEdits]

Not sure if I missed this but another con about the caves are the mass amount of repeated designs of levels from cave to cave and lack of excitement when entering a new sublevel because of predictable design. The Dream Den specifically is a mess of all previous cave designs instead of new designs and it gets boring very quickly. (Some sublevels are pure copies of other caves’ sublevels except with more enemies, specifically sublevel 9 and another one i forgot)

[@BynineStudio]

whenever i play a game for the first time, i write about it. and looking back at what i wrote about pikmin 2, even then i was shocked at how much uglier it was compared to the original game. not graphically, but in its tone, its setting, its plot, its characters, and even some of its music (like awakening wood or many of the cave themes.) it felt mean spirited and kind of uncomfortable in sharp contrast to pikmin 1's quiet beauty. so watching this video was very gratifying

[@toooydoeur]

Lmao what

[@capitanpastabase6342]

Awakening wood theme is awful.

[@quibquiberton4184]

I agree. Olimar despairing if he'd ever see his family again, returning from a near death experience, just to have his ship immediately sold off, and sent back to the planet he just escaped. The first game was cruel, but it felt tragic, where 2's cruelty feels like it is played for laughs. It's a bit jarring.

[@monkeyingaround9740]

Glad to see people speaking the facts.

[@wonder6835]

you perfectly said my issues with pikmin 2

[@xxProjectJxx]

Thank you for saying it, omg. I've held a lot of these opinions for years, and finally someone else said it. Plus, you bought up some points I hadn't even considered. Very well written. I'll definitely check out your other stuff.

[@MauriSahara]

Im glad that someone else went out of their way to review pikmin 2 in an unbiased and honest way, while i feel some points are slightly unfair,but for the most part you nailed it, as a somewhat long time fan of the series its great to know that people are catching on to pikmin 2's major flaws

[@yaldamasevpro4862]

"unbiased"💀

[@Elefinn]

A bit late to the party but an opinion piece can hardly be called "unbiased" lol. Now, we can still call a review fair or honest, but everyone has their own inherent biaises coloring their judgment in some way. And while my own opinion aligns pretty well with the one detailed in this video, we could also make a fair opposite assessment of the game. The tone of Pikmin 2 is way more chill and cartoony, but a lot of people prefer that kind of approach, which is just as valid!

[@rob40480]

Amazing video, as always. I'm excited for your content to break out into the mainstream, it absolutely deserves to be recognized for how excellent it is

[@HyperSonic777]

I've played all Pikmin games, and I have to agree with you. Before playing Pikmin 2, I'd thought it would be very good based on the amount of new content available, but after playing it through two times, I can firmly say that I would have some issues with it. I liked how Pikmin and Pikmin 3 were about 6 hours long, but Pikmin 2 has taken me over twice the 6 hour length to beat it 100%. I think the caves, excessively long game length, and boring gameplay are what killed some of my satisfaction. Does the final boss of this game have to be long? It takes me 45 minutes to an hour to beat it because the parts have so much health, and the unbalancing of the deadly electricity forces me to use only Yellows (which do the 2nd weakest damage in the game overall). As for my scores on each game: Pikmin: 8/10 A good experience, and I loved trying to go for 100% at the fastest I could go. The story was great, and I loved the areas. The Final Boss is a huge mess though. As a person who exclusively does no death while playing any Pikmin game, this fight is a monstrosity. Some game issues with the AI and the enemies mysterious dying while fighting enemies is an annoyance. Challenge Mode is OK, but my tough times with trying 100% only The Final Trial has made me stray away from this game for some time. I might go back to it some time in the future. Pikmin 2: 6/10 Overall more good than bad, but a weak entry. The only strong redeeming quality of this are the new enhancements with the AI (no longer having to throw another Pikmin _just_ to get a Pellet Posy). I like the uniqueness of the game, but it's plagued with the dungeons/caves. I really don't like how they diminish some enjoyment of the game since I loved getting the treasures in the overworld. The Challenge Mode is very weak compared to Pikmin 3. The only good thing I'll say about it is that I like the results theme for it, and I'm glad it reappeared in Pikmin 3. Pikmin 3: 9/10 This is a fantastic game, and I'm so glad that I played this one first. I like the characters, AI, the new mechanics and abilities, and the Mission Mode. The story for this game actually gave a huge stake for the new characters, and I love them so much, especially Brittany. I like the new Rock Pikmin and Winged Pikmin. I think they are both very useful in what they do. The final boss for this game was quite favorable with my preference of no Pikmin death runs. I get why some could say it's weak due to exploits, but I personally like them since I HATE seeing any Pikmin of mine die. As before mentioned, the Mission Mode is one of my favorite things about this game. I really like the strategies and routes you can use to get very good times. I've achieved high enough time bonuses to get of the leaderboard in some (although not possible in every level). The only weak thing about Mission Mode is that the enemies in the Switch version have less health, which makes runs easier, which made my progress on the Wii U version null and void. it's even worse when you take into account that the Switch as a console has controller issues which make me stray away from buying one. Another weakness about this game are the tutorials, and some AI issues here and there (as per usual). Otherwise, I'd consider this to be one of the best games I've ever played.

[@TheGemsbok]

Thank you for the thoughtful reviews! Based on your praise, I am all the more excited to try Pikmin 3 at some point in the future.

[@journeration1]

I have a lot of nostalgia for these games, and I truly LOVED this video. You're so right about the second one, and you've put everything I could never articulate into words. I never actually saved Louis because I always wandered away from the game around the fifteen or twenty hours mark. It really couldn't hold my attention any more. Every year or two I would come back to it and start a new file because I had didn't remember what I was doing in the other file or exactly how to play. Then I would leave the game at the same point again like clockwork. I still remember super clearly when I got the bad ending in Pikmin 1 when I played it for the first time. It was so shocking and memorable. I actually started a new file straight away to try for a better ending. I never do that with any games. Pikmin 1 is such a really special game. That's maybe one of the my best memories I have of playing games as a kid, other than playing with friends and family and yada yada.

[@TheGemsbok]

I imagine that's the situation for many who played it as a child. Interest in the game sort of fizzles without a clear idea of why, and Louie remains unsaved each time.

[@MalzraAirwynn]

I like pikmin 3 more than 2, but not sure if I'd say it's as good as 1. I think it made use of puzzles t hat require multiple pilots more often, and the tone isn't as off. (It's about gathering fruit to stop a food crisis rather than treasures for profit), and from what I remember hte rock pickmin are more balanced than purples were. And no more caves. Time pressure is back but it's more lenient than 1. All in all I like 3, but 1 is still the tighter experience I think.

[@toooydoeur]

2>1>3

[@owenduffy5745]

​@@toooydoeur I largely agree. Right now I would say 2>1>4>3

[@toooydoeur]

@@owenduffy5745 2>1>3>4 for me now

[@tomorrowland8026]

Love the little animations you made

[@JZSNooB]

It never ceases to amaze me how consistently you're able to making great video essays. Keep it up!

[@TheGemsbok]

Ha, you're too kind. I'm sure it helps that I have like a two-year lead time between when I publish an article and when I finalize the script to turn it into a video.

[@blakenielson6775]

I love this video! I lost the original pikmim years ago but always thought it was the better of the 2 games. It all makes sense now!

[@aidenw7625]

Despite dreading it as a kid the submerged castle is hands down one of the best parts of Pikmin 2! Challenge, time constraints, tension and even a satisfying conclusion all rolled into one microcosm. Almost feels like a different game.

[@TheGemsbok]

Well said! Definitely an outlier, and (though sadly still plagued with a lot of the loading/saving/cutscene bloat common to all the caves) certainly a highlight of the experience, as well as one of the few moments that tries to justify the implementation of the purples.

[@gelfrecs]

So interesting! Thanks for making this! I appreciate how critical you're of Pikman 2, while not falling into pessimism or irritability.

[@Nacho_el]

Thats such a well made video. Great content!

[@arxyn809]

I'm glad you played pikmin 2 and made this video so I wouldn't have to. I played pikmin 1 approximately 45 million times growing up, and tried pikmin 2 completely blind for the first time last year. I had many of the same problems with it that you did, to the point where I actually abandoned the game after the first dungeon, because I saw the writing on the wall that the game would not capture a fraction of the quality or charm of its predecessor.

[@TheGemsbok]

Haha, no problem. Thanks for the comment.

[@BaneRain]

Have you considered that your difference in opinion could also be attributed to playing one game as a child and another as an adult?

[@arxyn809]

@@BaneRain That's a reasonable point, but I don't use nostalgia to judge games. I might have enjoyed pikmin 2 now if I had played it back in the day, but I'm confident I would still have held the first game as superior.

[@TheGemsbok]

@@BaneRain I'm pretty sure you're addressing the top comment of this thread, but just in case you aren't (or were addressing both of us): I played both games for the first time as an adult.

[@ItsAnGoose]

Wow this was amazing, why doesn’t this vid have more views? Reminds me of the good old Matthewmatosis style analysis vids ❤

[@TheGemsbok]

As a fan of Matthew's work, that means a lot. Thank you! This one is a personal favorite of mine, actually. Even though it's already a year old, I'm still hoping it will gain more traction at some point.

[@ItsAnGoose]

@@TheGemsbok You’re welcome! It definitely deserves some more attention, I hope the algorithm picks it up soon. This comparison was so good it’s inspired me to re-buy a copy of Pikmin right now 😂

[@Fachewachewa]

The first Pikmin is a game I gave up at the time to restart and finish it properly. Pikmin 2 is a game I gave up after one or two dungeons, and never picked up again. Great video! I definitely resonate with a lot of what was said, even though I didn't play that much of the second game. Now I'm curious to hear what you'll think of Pikmin 3 :) For me, even though it was still on the easier side and didn't have what made Pikmin 1 special (there is technically a limit on the number of days you can spend on the planet but it's *very* generous), it was still a really nice game to play, and it reminded me of the type of games Nintendo made for the Gamecube, which kinda changed with the Wii.

[@ShyBug42]

This video is fascinating to me because while I also prefer pikmin 1 to 2 it’s much more focused on preferring the arcade-y fun of seeing how fast I can gather the ship parts through skillful play rather than the more combat driven caves.

[@iceheart1289]

Disliked the 2nd pikmin as a kid because of the sub levels. Now looking back as an adult I have to agree the tone and story make me dislike it. The 1st pikmin will always have my eternal nostalgic love though!

[@franklinshure960]

God, it drives me crazy when games force a lot of advice text at you like that. When I played skyward sword I was bout ready to toss my sword off the sky island to get away from Fi.

[@xaxaiuedufraine4897]

This video has left me with a dissonant feeling. I played and loved Pikmin 2 as a kid. Though I had never played an open world game back then, I think Pikmin 2 enticed me with the features that make that genre so addicting: Lots of stuff to do, all the time in the world to do it. There was an appealing "freedom" in Pikmin 2 as opposed to what I saw as oppressive, stress-inducing time constraints in the original. I lacked the capacity to appreciate the design nuances of the first game. To the point of Pikmin 2 being easier, I think it's telling that I only managed to beat Pikmin AFTER beating Pikmin 2. It's been years since I played either game, but I remember loving Pikmin 2 because of its sheer scope and relaxed pace compared to the original. To be fair, however, the narrative tone of the first game affected me far more than the second even then. Pikmin's story had substance, and that comes through even when understanding fails. Though likely a result of how little time I spent with Pikmin as compared to Pikmin 2, the original stands out in my mind as dark, uncomfortable, and a bit mysterious, whereas the sequel feels familiar and nostalgic. Even when faced with all the faults of its design, I don't think that I can - or want to - discard my pleasant memories of Pikmin 2.

[@TheGemsbok]

Here's something I wrote in response to a similar comment previously: Don't worry, you are not wrong to enjoy things! You don't have to dislike Pikmin 2 just because you agree with my criticisms of it. For example: because I played quite a lot of it as a child, I still greatly enjoy Sonic Adventure, which is a worse game than Pikmin 2 by most metrics.

[@Pokeball35]

Heya! I’m a Pikmin 2 super fan who loves the series. I absolutely loved this video essay! Maybe it’s because I first played Pikmin 2 between the ages of 4 and 6 and played Pikmin 2 before Pikmin 1, but I just LOVE Pikmin 2 more than the original. My favorite part about Pikmin 2 IS exploring the cave systems. I love how it has a random layout every time you go into most cave floors. I love how you have to strategize how you navigate the floors. I LOVE the treasures. I love seeing the old relics of humanity that you collect and I’m always thinking about what I could possibly find next in each area. I do understand where you’re coming from with all of your points. I also have no idea why the credits play halfway through the game. That’s probably my least favorite thing about the whole experience. I also love Pikmin 1 and how short and arcade-like it is. What I don’t like about Pikmin 1 is how everything controls. With it being a launch window GameCube game with a new IP, there was bound be some things that don’t work right. I hate how slow the Pikmin feel even at flower status. I hate how the AI will just ignore you and the Pikmin will randomly leave group or fight and enemy you didn’t want to fight. Pikmin 2 is just a better feeling game to play, which is the main reason why I play it all the time. A lot of the content on my channel is based around Pikmin, mostly Pikmin 2 and the rom hacking scene behind it. I’m very happy that there’s a hack coming soon that ports all of Pikmin 1 into Pikmin 2. Playing that will probably make me appreciate Pikmin 1 even more, and Pikmin 3 is probably the best Pikmin experience there is. Aside from how they handle the time limit, it’s nearly perfect. I’m really hoping that whenever we get Pikmin 4 that it’ll include everything that was good about all 3 games + reworking and refining the cave systems to be more streamlined and fun for more people. Ik this comment was rambly, but I just like Pikmin. Thank You for making such a great video!

[@CaptainX24]

Pikmin 1 is a tight, atmospheric game with a well-conceived gameplay loop that promotes thoughtful exploration and time management. Pikmin 2 is a cute and poorly balanced dungeon crawler where much of the content is repetitive and forgettable and the urgency that motivated thoughtful gameplay is mostly replaced with resetting on sublevels every time a purple pikmin dies. I clicked on this video because I hold the same opinion and I’m excited to hear your take.

[@Tiggster-qr8mw]

The sheer vibes and atmosphere of Pikmin 1 were never replicated, but Pikmin 3 goes for something a little different and succeeds at it. Pikmin 2 tho is just bad imo

[@WalterWhite-eb9oi]

You were on my product when you wrote this comment.

[@benferrisinverts4198]

Pikmin2 is my fav

[@Joosher56]

It doesn’t have as much of a tense atmosphere as 1 or 3 because you aren’t stranded without food or a working ship. The entire point of the game is that oilmar goes *straight* back to the planet he escaped from in order to get a shitload of money and save the complaint from financial ruin, so the general theme of the game is less stressful due to the goal not being survival, but simply monetary gain. Despite this, the gameplay is still really fun, I mean the caves are often pretty challenging, the variety of bosses is really cool and the addition of purple and white pikmin is fantastic and really opens a lot of opportunities and gameplay mechanics that weren’t in the first game.

[@meko750]

Spot on.

[@cal594-l1l]

playing through 2 right now and i just want to say your critiques hold up 100%. im already well over the playtime i ever had with the entire first game getting every part, and ive still not got the debt paid off. its really frustrating how they made a lot of changes and mixed up the formula in 2 rather than just repeat 1, but almost all of those changes are for the worse. i think i could look past a lot of the issues with the narrative if the gameplay itself was tight but the pacing is totally fucked as you point out - in large part due to the time limit mechanics getting completely neutered. even though the caves are the tougher environments compared to the overworld, theres so much boring downtime owing to the combat/treasure loop being usually the sole focus with multitasking made a complete non-priority. the timer was the backbone to everything in 1 and its so weird you can be almost at the end of the day, gather a bunch of pikmin for a cave run, spend upwards of an hour in that cave and just extend that whole day runtime to something like 4x its length. i would guess they probably trialed having the timer in earlier versions but removed it once the caves started turning into so many floors, which is honestly a sign they should've cut way back on the length of them. it really makes the overworld feel like such an inherent afterthought when you just dont spend that much time in it by comparison. not that having the timer back would fix the major issue that theres no overall time limit and thus the implementation of the system is kind of pointless to begin with. if theres no actual time penalty to be had you might as well gut the system outright rather than posture about as if it actually still matters. from what ive heard the later games do take that into account actually. idk, its just making such a slog in a way i never came close to feeling with 1. it's a real frustrating aspect of the kind of juvenile toy reviewer mentality so much gaming press had at the time, where plenty of writers found the mechanic stressful and didnt actually bother to interrogate if that was both intentional and in fact a benefit to the overall design. really nintendo shouldve just stuck to their guns - its certainly not the first time a developer would cave to poorly thought out feedback and made a game that, thank god, has more content(tm) to consume.

[@iamnothale]

You forgot to mention, but Pikmin 2 have this nasty tendencies to drop random suicide bomber-spider thing from nowhere for no reason other than to screw your mood even further. Even worse when it drops it when you're even a inch closer to the treasure. Oh, and that Purple Pikmin can instantly set it off.

[@TheGemsbok]

Ha, I see what you mean. I think whenever I saw those I was just glad to have something momentarily wake me from my cave-induced stupor.

[@iamnothale]

@@TheGemsbok Our not so well earned stanza, indeed. Oh yeah, forgot to mention that bomb rocks are even harder to handle in the GameCube version of the first Pikmin game. The Wii port made it easier, though. Balance between the two environments are the key to success.

[@Leefbay]

They're not even that hard to avoid after playing the game like twice lol You can simply not use Purples because they're too slow and mostly use Flowers & White Pikmin In small groups In order to get the treasures on a Sublevel with those Bomb Rock Dweevils Also the C Stick Swarm helps the process a lot for me, so I'd only lose like 10 Pikmin at most when I'm playing at my best

[@IIITrunks]

The variable time lengths due to cave exploration was my biggest issue with this game. The consistent 15 minute days of P1 were so charming and gave context for what I was doing and how I was doing it. I actually think including new pikmin is maybe a bad idea? I really dont like having to sort between 5 types and the white and purple pikmin not having their own pods felt weird. I've yet to try 3 and 4 but personally just having 3 pikmin feels the best. Purple pikmin should have just been red pikmin that have eaten some special nectar you only get from some enemies - maybe those enemies shoot water so you need blue pikmin to kill them safely white pikmin should have either not existed or been a similar upgrade for blue pikmin. It makes sense in my mind that these sort of tadpole, frog-like pikmin could turn poisonous if given their own upgrade. yellow pikmin just being weaker red pikmin but for electricity instead of fire puzzles was such a downgrade. White pikmin are just the poison version of this too.

[@connorcorn7309]

Welp, I'm off to go play the Pikmin games before watching this video. I'll be back.

[@TheGemsbok]

Ha. Just the first two! No spoilers for 3 in this one.

[@goldiethevillian]

Im a huge fan of the pikmin franchise but I have to agree with what u said about pikmin 2. It didnt bring much more to the table other than a long and boring game where repetitive combat and carrying are the main 2 things ur doing.

[@XpistolinX]

Oh my this is gold. I am a big pikmin fan (look to my profile image for proof) and I couldn't decide if my favorite pikmin was 1 or 2 for a long time, the only flaw I saw at the moment to pikmin 1 is that is to short, and to pikmin 2 that has to much duration. Seeing this video now I have a clear winner, but it makes me ask mysef: why I enyoyed so much pikmin 2? so much that I even couldn't tell the quality difference between it and the 1, I don't know, maybe I just enjoy moving pikmin around so the excesive quantity of content is just right for me. That also makes me question: Where does this put Pikmin 3? I suppose that it is a middle ground between 1 and 2.

[@TheGemsbok]

Don't worry, you are not wrong to enjoy things! You don't have to dislike Pikmin 2 just because you agree with my criticisms of it. For example: because I played quite a lot of it as a child, I still greatly enjoy Sonic Adventure, which is a worse game than Pikmin 2 by most metrics.

[@juanlongoria4827]

Your videos are phenomenal, keep up with the great content 👍

[@TheGemsbok]

Thanks, will do! In fact, my next game video should be ready in a few days . . .

[@obeezy69]

Ngl you don't need more than like 20 yellows lmao

[@barthesist]

I have to say, I really enjoy the content on this channel. I found it through the Dark Souls video and liked that one a lot as I am a great fromsoft fan and feel like a more thorough literary approach to it is sorely lacking on yt. I then watched some of your other videos and I have to say I have become a fan. Good production, good scripting, original topics and original approaches to more popular topics. This pikmin video is my favourite at the moment :) I wish you the best for your channel, great work!

[@TheGemsbok]

Thank you for the very kind comment! Definitely more videos with a literary approach to games on the way. This Pikmin video is a personal favorite of mine, too. Hopefully the algorithmic gods smile on it some day.

[@vikorovstock2432]

15:18 _That's_ what annoyed me so much when I first played 2. When I was a kid I loved how the environment of Pikmin 1 hinted that the setting was a post human earth. I had never seen anything like it before, it felt like a secret puzzle that I had managed to work out all by myself. Then I played pikmin 2 for the first time and a small part of me hated how the things I had to collect were so blatantly human garbage. I didn't know why though, and I couldn't articulate the thought. Because of that, I eventually just dismissed it as a younger me being childish, but you finally put it into words.

[@TheGemsbok]

Well said. I think there are several aspects of Pikmin 2 that operate like that---that could eventually diminish a young player's enthusiasm for fully finishing it, but where the nature of that effect is opaque enough for them not to really be able to describe why.

[@shaykitoffe6411]

24:00 I definitely agree with you on this point. There weren't too many points in the game where i felt i needed to split up 2 captains to lead groups of pikmin around. There were only a few incidences that i needed to.. but... Not many... Also. Pikmin 2's story mode should've been 2 player compatible.

[@mrwaldoful]

Man.... I never realized pikmin 2 was such a missed opportunity... damn...

[@Jdudec367]

It isn't that bad, it is arguably better then 1 actually.

[@CameronRoberts-jh9mr]

Its not bad he is saying certain things are bad by his mind and no one can like them as in the conclusion instead of saying while i dont like certain things about pikmin 2 other people do and i respect the game for that but instead he just straight up calls it bad without acknowledging that people like the things he does not.

[@Luigi02364]

While I love Pikmin 2 I can completely understand why you dislike it and most of your complaints are completely valid. It’s nice to hear someone complain about pikmin 2 objectively rather than disguise their opinion as fact.

[@CameronRoberts-jh9mr]

Expect things like the caves or no day limit are not objective thats a personal preference whether you like it or not

[@AphidKirby]

Wow! Fantastic video!! I've always disliked Pikmin 2 for all of its awful choices in theming and gameplay but watching this makes me feel more comfortable in disliking it, it feels good to let it out! cos so many people love it but seriously what the heck is this game it completely throws away the themes and tone of the 1st one like its nothing, borderline offensive

[@BynineStudio]

yo!! good taste!!

[@AphidKirby]

@@BynineStudio YOOOO hi Bynine, based as always I see ==B)

[@yaldamasevpro4862]

Holy shit someone with a terrible taste

[@mr.blueguy7648]

I dunno man. I feel like the bit about the voices is kinda knitpicky. I liked the fact that the pikmin sing now when we walk around. Gave them a bit more personality l, made me feel just a little more attached to them. Theyre happy to be with you helping you out and thats displayed by their humming as they walk along with you. And the ending after you collect all the pieces and you're leaving the planet, the way the onions follow you as far as they can go, and the pikmin sing a farewell as they watch you leave the atmosphere, they know you might not be back and they'll miss you heavily. I can't argue with the rest tho. Despite the second game being my favorite it has a lot of big flaws I can't ignore.

[@Isabeethetransprincess]

You are gonna be positively mix on Pikmin 4. It's a WAY better Pikmin 2, with actual design caves with puzzles and dugeons, but some of it is not going to satisfy you like Pikmin 1. I'm a Pikmin fan, I love all 4 games to bits, but 2 always felt... misguided and repetitive. All other games while not as good in my eyes as Pikmin 1, manage to actually still be masterpieces of design. Pikmin 3 gets a shout out for being superb at making you optimize game (but unfortunately not due being hard) In the end, I say give the other 2 titles a try, and don't skip 4, it fixed most of Pikmin 2 problems while also helping me personally appreciate Pikmin 2 more

[@JabónElegante]

Purple pikmin are literally the sigma chad one in the team (in pikmin 2) In pikmin 3 they are the chubby and weak one

[@MAYOFORCE]

I love Pikmin 1 but yeah I dropped 2 shortly after the game blatantly tells you there's no time limit

[@cloverkip]

i can respect that opinion

[@Gamebuilder2000]

7:53 yeah there's an impact site right under it called The Impact Site

[@TheGemsbok]

The impact site labeled on the map, to which you are referring, is just a green area where Olimar's ship crashed. At that point in the video, what I'm talking about is the brown region of the map around the Forest Navel, which looks like an impact crater from one or more _much_ larger projectiles.

[@Gamebuilder2000]

@@TheGemsbok yeah i know, I was just making a funny, actually, i never noticed that crater before this video

[@TheGemsbok]

Ah, thought you were being sincere. My mistake!

[@murhesamudekereza1498]

Nintenod casually making blue Pikmin even more useless in Pikmin 4 by introducing a dog that can carry all your pikmin, regardless of type, safely across large bodies of water

[@cjw8497]

I've always like pikmin 1 more than pikmin 2. The atmosphere and challenge was my reason why. I still like Pikmin 2, but it's too long. Pikmin 3 is better than 2.

[@eirikpettersen3257]

Pikmin 2 is one of my all-time favorite childhood games. I loved the atmosphere, really enjoyed the caves (especially the one with the water road roller) and even looked forward to each treasure cutscene as I enjoyed the strange names they were given. That said, I never got the chance to play the original, and I have never replayed the game since my childhood. I really enjoyed this video however, and I feel that I would agree with most of your points today if I were to ever replay the game.

[@Nic_2751]

So we’re gonna ignore the fact that Louie is clearly the villain portrayed as a bumbling rookie, to being the catalyst for everything and theorized to be controlling the final boss, then becomes the main antagonist of 3, as he both gets on Olimar’s nerves, and later causes the Koppaites to chase after him in a pursuit thinking he’s Olimar, only to then take their entire food supply (and personal items) leaving them screwed, as well as the fact he’s responsible for so many pikmin losses and ultimately have to be tied, then there’s the fact he both makes recipes for all enemies and the bulbmin who helped him, but also his voracious appetite being a detriment to the Koppaites now sharing one bottle between 4, later noting he tried to eat the Waterwraith, which spirals into the Umibozo theory, and he’s always trying to cover his tracks, Louie is quite honestly a perfect twist villain who doesn’t just get thrown into with no set up

[@bluetoad6848]

Hoping to see a why pikmin either 1 or 3 is better than 4 in the future, cause this video essay was very well put together, and pikmin 4 was a major disappointment. Modern gaming philosophy has obliterated that game.

[@juddmandeluxe_]

I know this is an old ass comment but Room 100 Entertainment just dropped a video talking about why he didn’t like Pikmin 4 very much which I thought you might like if you haven’t seen it already. As much as I still really like Pikmin 4 I have more grievances with it than any other entry in the series.

[@phili4600]

While I do agree with everything you said, the general glitchyness and harsh beginner-unfriendly design keep me from liking Pikmin 1 over 2. But for me, 3 is king

[@FormaThought]

Great video! I'm also of the opinion that Pikmin 1 is a much tighter and better experience than 2 and you eloquently described basically everything I would say on the matter. Have you seen LambHoot's videos on Pikmin 2? They didn't exactly change my mind about the game, but they gave me a much greater appreciation of it and I'd strongly recommend giving them a watch if you'd like a different perspective on it. Very curious what your thoughts will be when you eventually get to 3!

[@321gametime5]

Definitely my favorite video essay on Pikmin 2. I feel like the game might have been great if it didn't rely on the caves mechanic, or at least not have them be randomly generated.

[@andrescube64]

I agree

[@BaneRain]

I got both on release and 100%d each of them. I like pikmin 2 better because I have very fond memories of playing it with my little sister so im definitely biased. Still, I heartily disagree with you. I think Pikmin2 had superior level design. The piklopedia was really fun. Maybe they missed the mark on a few things thematically and the urgency was lost, but I dont think it's boring or stale at all. However I agree that when a game relies so much on ambience and tone, losing that really damages the overall quality. I dont think p2 was bad, but I definitely think if it incorporated the things you brought up better, it would be a much better game.

[@capitanpastabase6342]

But Pikmin 2 had no level design, literally, because the caves are randomly generated. That's why a lot of times you'll see nonsensical layouts (like a black bramble wall on a dead end, a group of enemies and hazards protecting a zone with no treasure, sometimes the treasure is on the water and sometimes is not, severely altering the need for blue pikmin, etc.)

[@Isabeethetransprincess]

2:59 It's funny now having the developers confirm that Tim Burton was a mayor inspiration for the tone

[@COlimar788]

Interesting and well-thought-out video! I definitely love the analysis of Pikmin 1. The analysis and comparison to Pikmin 2 feels overly negative to me, though... While I definitely think your points with the thematic and story changes are well-argued, the gameplay critiques land less well for me. Characterizing the gameplay change to two captains, for example, as not making a significant difference in how the player can multi-task or how puzzles are designed seems unfair to me. While Pikmin 3 would refine the multi-captain approach with allowing you to assign movement to one automatically, just having two and being able to split them and their parties across the large game worlds has a huge impact in how efficient I am able to perform tasks as compared to Pikmin when I go back to the two games. It's also worth pointing out that, while Pikmin 2 lacks the overarching 30 day time constraints of Pikmin, time constraints still exist and the player is encouraged to work quickly. The messages from the boss grow increasingly urgent, implying - if not enforcing - a "bad end" should the debt repayment take too long, the areas grow increasingly dangerous with more and nastier enemies as the days progress, and individual areas like the famous Waterwraith's dungeon focus on time constraints on a micro level. I definitely agree Pikmin is the better, more focused game, but Pikmin 2 is also a delight and a worthy successor, in no small part due to how well it fleshed out the world and characters through the treasure descriptions, enemy bestiary, and the cutscenes and end-of-day messages. I think a big part of why people don't find the ship AI annoying like Navi or Fi is because it is a fun character, playing off of Olimar and Louie in how it describes items, enemies, and the tasks at hand.

[@SpathiTS]

Pikmin 1 felt like a tech demo to me, a lot of QOL changes and polishes were added in Pikmin 2. I fucking loved Pikmin 2.

[@Tephnos]

Definitely agree, but feel you should have given Pikmin 2 more credit for polishing mechanics that felt wonky in Pikmin 1. Traversing across bridges in Pikmin 1 with large groups often left a few of them falling off, especially in the forest navel. In 2 they automatically group together when going across a bridge to avoid this. The whistle works a lot better in 2, whereas in 1 sometimes Pikmin will just ignore it, which is frustrating when rushing at the end of a day. Additionally, the Pikmin in 1 love to interact with anything they walk past or are in close proximity to - I lost 60 Pikmin in one night when I had them cancel a bridge I thought I could get done in time. In the LAST second, they all went rushing back to finish it on their own and immediately died. That's annoying. And of course, the crushing glitch in Pikmin 1, ensuring that you can likely never achieve a no death run, because Pikmin will randomly disappear if a dead enemy falls on them, causing the game to report it as a death.

[@TheGemsbok]

Don't know about the 60 pikmin leaving without being dismissed---never encountered anything quite like that in my three playthroughs of the game. That does sound like an unfortunate glitch. Never had more than a few autonomously stop following Olimar to pick grass or chase a flint beetle. But regarding the other elements, those all sound like reasonable representations of fragile, simple, sentient creatures. No-death challenge runs were not a design priority for Nintendo, and I can't fault them for that. Pikmin aren't gadgebots from Ratchet and Clank. They're small (unusually obedient) wild animals.

[@Tephnos]

​@@TheGemsbok I dunno about it being a glitch, I think with grass or beetles there's a set amount that will chase them on their own, whereas with bridges they'll all just go work on it if close enough, which is probably what happened. I'm assuming the design thought for that was the Pikmin would 'show' the player what to do with bridges if they didn't know you could command Pikmin to construct them. What I'm trying to get at is that the controls of the first Pikmin were simply clunky in comparison to Pikmin 2. Nintendo always favours gameplay over all else, and I have no doubt they iterated over all the control faults from Pikmin 1, because I just didn't have the same issues in 2. Lots of game mechanics faults, yes, but I can't fault the actual controls of the game. If they were to ever port the games again, I'd love to see them tweak the controls of the first game to match the second (but not the third, because they got rid of c-stick commands and I hate it).

[@TheGemsbok]

@@Tephnos I've only observed pikmin in either game automatically doing nearby combat or construction tasks if they were dismissed by a leader. Were you using the c-stick to control them? If so, that counts as a command to interact with nearby things.

[@toooydoeur]

Pikmin 2 the goat

[@Rainin90utside]

The themes of Olimar relating to the Pikmin as a school teacher to a class of children are worth discussion. The whistle is like a school teacher. There are also military themes related to this. I think the sequel is more themed around the life of a salary-man in a corporation. The pressures of family and work and dealing with people. And without the life and death theme and time restriction that introduced danger, pressure, and the ominous quality to Pikmin 1, to the first Pikmin, time is opened up and leaves space for playfulness and idle fancy, and the elements of whimsy and leisure are emphasized. Pikmin 2 is whimsical.

[@Landmasters]

First and foremost, Pikmin 1 is far superior to 2, the short length, replayability, and mood make it a clear victory. That out of the way, there are a few points here I disagree with I'm not sure where you get the idea that Pikmin 2 is easier than 1, hell no. The purple Pikmin undoubtedly trivialize combat for most circumstances, but there are plenty of factors that make 2 far harder (some better, mostly worse). If you're looking to play perfect and avoid losing Pikmin, the game is notorious for kicking you in the groin be it certain fights (Dweevils, bomb spiders, artillery fish, WATERWRAITH) or operating in cramped quarters with hazards with the "bonus" of random shit dropping like bombs or enemies. Do not mistake, this is not a good kind of difficulty, this is the game blindsiding you rather than a good challenge As to the treasures, I'd side more that the ship is embellishing. It's not for every item (one's called utter scrap for god's sake), but a lot of the items have descriptions that go beyond what almost any species would describe. Acorns are not acorns, they're *ARMORED NUTS*, foods are called "Kings of", "Impenetrable", and "Sensation", a broken spoon is called "God". We can go a bit further as well. I briefly played Pikmin 3 and really hated it, just didn't like the control, loading zones, and design choices (Pikmin taking shards and then automatically running back). One thing that did interest me however were these data logs relating to Hocotate, almost sounding as though they fell into more debt despite hoarding this treasure in 2. Perhaps the embellishing got them into hot water after the buyers discovered how average these items actually were? (I should stress, I didn't get further to confirm, I'm going by what my mind interpreted from my brief time with Pikmin 3). It doesn't fix the lessened value these items have to the player, not at all, but the humor for me is not the title itself, it's how they try to oversell a goddamn mustard jar lid Last bit, but the noise didn't bother me. More subjective I know, but I've played plenty of stuff that go WELL beyond the call of duty with audio chaos. (Xenoblade, Sonic Adventure 2, Link to the Past on GBA, and plenty more) Pikmin singing are inoffensive at worst and adorable at best and the treasure module binging is a bit excessive, but given it only bings when you're next to a treasure, by the time it starts to grate, you've assigned Pikmin to carry it back and have moved away to the next part. While I said it didn't bother me, that also goes for the OST, sides the map screen it does very little for me That's mostly it, the main areas of contention anyway. Always fun to see different perspectives though, especially with this level of analysis. Pikmin, much like Splatoon, I had no expectations for when it was announced, and true to most Nintendo stuff, it exceeded what I could imagine. 2-3 years ago playing 1 for the first time in 8 years and absolutely blowing my 15 day record out with 9...it felt like reconnecting with an old friend, just being able to be so in sync as though time only enriched it. Then I played 2 and was generally satisfied speeding through, but the linear nature and frustration playing without Pikmin deaths soured a bit towards the end...just a smidge bloated.

[@TheGemsbok]

Thank you for taking the time to share such detailed thoughts on the video. You are not the first person to allege that people attempting to get as close to zero pikmin deaths as possible have a much harder time in the second game than the first. I'm sure that's entirely true, for the reasons you've listed. That is not, however, a style of play I have ever attempted or been drawn toward in the sequel, and so it is fair to say that it did not factor into my thoughts on difficulty. The elements considered for that aspect of the comparison were simply the mechanical skill, strategy, and time management required to reach each game's best ending for the first time (for me, playing each title for the first time as an adult).

[@toooydoeur]

nah

[@Kaplisis]

Interesting points. I actually prefered Pikmin 2 back in day. I just like how much content it had, specially the 2 player modes. Pikmin 1 is easier to pick up and play, but it can be completed in a few hours, and the engine seems more glitchy... Back in the early years of youtube, it was a common opinion to think that the franchise would follow pikmin 2's formula and keep making bigger games full of longer stages, with plenty of new enemies and features, but when pikmin 3 came out, it became clear that they would be focusing on the short but polished time management gameplay as the series standard... I was personally a bit dissapointed when i finished pikmin 3 in a few hours, but i grew to value the replayability of 1 and 3 more and more. Pikmin 2 is like the DK64 of the series xD it has that "bigger is better" philosophy that not everybody likes xD

[@mr.blueguy7648]

i always find videos like these to challenge my own opinions but none of them convince me, they always come off like theyre just dismissing what makes pikmin 2 great. then i go back and play pikmin 1 and see all the glitches that now, love ALL the pikmin games, 1 and 2 are my top favs, 2 remains my top of that list, i had really hoped that 4 would replace it but it did not. but you have to ignore a lot of the flaws with 1 to act like its perfect and ignore a lot fo the good in 2 to act like its just a worse game.

[@shellpoptheepicswordmaster755]

I liked it

[@DetrimentalMask]

Okay well, to firstly begin I disagree with couple of the things you mention in this video so I'm gonna make a bit of an essay why (you're prolly not gonna read it but just putting it out there. I do agree with some of your points (for example cutscenes could prolly be skippable and story could maybe have been a bit more compelling yada yada yada that stuff), however I feel as though those reasons aren't enough to categorize Pikmin 2 as a mediocre game. (as how you described it) Firstly of all things, the tone and story between both games: While yes, undoubtedly the story of Pikmin 2 could've been a bit more compelling and I guess have better stakes in comparison to Pikmin 1, I feel like the way you describe Pikmin 1's tone and story is a bit too overexaggerrated??? To put it that way, the tone of Pikmin 1, while yes it is a bit dark and has lots of stakes going for it, the metaphor that Pikmin 1 is like a Tim Burton movie, like the critic mentioned, is a bit of a stretch personally. Pikmin 1's main goal of the game is to collect ship parts to fix your ship and escape the planet, however the thing in the collection of these ship parts is that some of them are non essentials and not required to beat the game, with that it's worth mentioning that OLIMAR spends his valuable and limited time collecting said parts that aren't even important to his survival in any shape or form, hell, mind you, the final boss of the entire game, the culmination of everything you learned for the level Final Trial, all leads to a Piggy Bank that isn't necessary, and ironically enough Olimar mentions it as "heavy as ever", meaning the final treasure that is inside the final boss in the ENTIRE game, as if non-essential wasn't enough, all the effort you went through doing the puzzles in the final trial, beating the boss was for money which is what unironically is what Pikmin 2 is, (just in a much less larger scale and not 100% the games' focus obviously), and reflecting on that for a second doesn't it lighten up the so dark and serious mood you were so claiming that Pikmin 1 was? Olimar spending his PRECIOUS and LIMITED time to still collect 5 things he didn't even need to survive? I personally think it did and it feels as you sort of dismissed that in your video. Secondly, more talking about Pikmin 2 now, you mention the cutscenes (The Pikmin glowing) when you beat the game "bizarrely unrelated to the main game's theme", but even so I feel it is important to mention that one of the very sub themes of Pikmin 2, ignoring debt and capitalism etc, is quite literally the return to Olimar in the very species he supposedly helped out of extinction. Dialogues and various implications in the game suggest that Pikmin recognize YOU, Captain Olimar, the one so called Leader who guided those pikmin to fend for themselves (which is what is literally shown in the first seconds of gameplay in the Valley of Repose, Red Pikmin fighting against a Dwarf Bulborb, used as a tutorial for players to fight it off, and also Blue Pikmin beating up Tadpoles in the Awakening Woods, also a tutorial for players to fight it off), the game isn't only about debt repayment (and rescue of Louie I guess), it is also about the return of Olimar after his previous encounter with the planet in PNF-404, and with the Pikmin once again offering to help you within their quest, that's quite literally one fo the themes in Pikmin 2, it's return, and that's what the final cutscenes primarily focus on, sure you could say that the game's final goal does not at all fit with the narrative of the final cutscenes however it is very much in correlation with the themes of their savior's return, and I guess the final cutscene show that there's a bunch more Pikmin than before so I guess you helped repopulate it more??? A bit of speculation but yeah. Thirdly, I think the Piklopedia makes up for this game's version of the end day logs of Olimar from Pikmin 1, there's over DOUBLE the bosses, 201 treasures, and like 50+ creatures in this game for Olimar to document about, in which he states his own personal life stories and his understanding of this mysterious and creature-filled world, which were elements ALSO present in Pikmin 1, so I don't really see what's the matter here, sure Pikmin 2 is a much more dark humor, ironic and humorous driven game, but the Piklopedia provides everything that was present in Pikmin 1 in terms of Olimar's character, even if it's optional and not shown in the main campaign, I feel as if completely ignoring THIS part about the game is a bit ignorant. (SECOND SEGMENT OF THE ESSAY IS IN THE REPLIES KZbin DIDN'T LET ME SEND THE FULL THING)

[@DetrimentalMask]

(CONTINUATION SINCE KZbin DIDN'T LET ME SEND THE FULL THING) Secondly of all, mechanics and difficulty between both games: Now while sure the story and tone is up to subjective liking, it's apparent that you VERY clearly misunderstand a lot of the fundamentals and so aspects of Pikmin 2 for the wrong reasons and word it in very objective language, to begin, the two captains, HERE is where I believe you really missed it with this one, you describe the two captain system as a sort of wasted opportunity or a neutral change, and you mention that only a few puzzles require plural captains and one boss, but here's the thing, Pikmin 2 doesn't force you to utilize both captains in major part of the game because the point of it IS supposed to be experimentation, which is a point you mentioned was absent in entire game due to the overtutorilization of the AI bot, thing is, the game freely allows you to use your 2 captains to however you like and come up with creative strategies and ideas for you to muster up, for example: In the overworld areas, I came up with a strategy on how to sort of give captains 2 functions, while one is exploring the world and killing emeies and collecting treasures etc, the other one is farming berries with other Pikmin, calling the Pikmin who brought back the berries to the ship to said captain once again to recollect Berries once they regrow, see how that is utilizing both of your captains to a great extent in which gives both good uses? You mention the Ranging Bloyster being the only boss to ever require the use of switching captains, however there is the Empress Bulblax boss in which requires (loose term) one of your captains to punch the fat idiot's babies while the other is actually damaging the boss, OR HELL, the Waterwraith before the final sublevel, you can use one of your captains as a distraction to lure away the Waterwraith for the other captain to help make progress on the sublevel and don't forget that when Olimar and Louie if you punch with one captain the other one will also automatically punch, meaning you could use this to your advantage for killing enemies much quicker in areas where bringing Pikmin would be dangerous, and those aren't things that are obligated for you to do, that is within the entirely game's freedom for you to come up with your own ways to strategize about it, and that is one of a lot of good strategizing capabitilities of the game. Just because the game doesn't explicitly tell you "Hey use your 2 captains for this" does not mean that it is absent, it just requires your mind and brain to do so. On the topic of Yellow Pikmin, Yellow Pikmin were ever really useful in Pikmin 1, sure it is needed to get through the reinforced strong walls with the bomb rocks and to beat the Beady Long Legs, THEY were quite literally dismissed aside from the other 2 more important pikmin, they were given a much better function in Pikmin 2 with the electricity hazards in which made their use much more crucial and important to the game, while sure they still could've MAYBE implemented bomb rocks as a part of the Yellow Pikmin, but I don't see their new utility as a bad thing. Now for Purple Pikmin, while yes I won't deny that they do seem to be a bit overpowered at times and to a certain extent one of the best types of Pikmin, your criticisms as to what makes Purple Pikmin more flawed, (ex: their slowness) is incredibly off the mark, you say that there's no point in them being slow because there's no time limit, even though that is not the point of their weakness, the point of their weakness is that they are more susceptible to being eaten or killed due to the slowness, like how Bulborbs can outrun them or how the Man At Legs' bullets (one of the many examples) can catch up to the slow fat idiot, and while yes flowering them up can help, they are still slower than the rest of the Pikmin, and well if you lose a bunch of them during a cave THEN they can't really help you much, while they are stronger, they are much more exposed to danger than literally any other type of Pikmin and with a huge risk of losing them, and that's what makes each loss of them count, plus counting that Purple Pikmin can be killed by any haelemental hazard (Fire, Electricity, Poison) and CANNOT go in Water is what also draws them back and makes your statement about them being useful for basically everything a bit overexaggerrated, the fact that you can't get Purple Pikmin back once lost and that's it limited during the time you're in the cave is quite literally one of the main aspects of the Cave system is, which is managing your numbers of Pikmin because you can't reproduce Pikmin during Caves (only if there are the presences of Candypop Buds but those are only in certain situations), Pikmin 2 while is a game that gives you all the time you ever need in the Caves, is also a game that gives you limited resources in said caves, and that's what it stands for, sure it is quite a huge change from Pikmin 1's premise, however they both share a link in the management department and in both of them you need to be careful. Also Pikmin 2 improved the horrendous stupid AI of Pikmins of the Pikmin 1 and that's a win in my book so. In conclusion, while I do have a bunch of more stuff that I somewhat found weird and very much debatable, they aren't as major in scale as these ones, still it's a good video that truly showed some of the problems with Pikmin 2 (even though it's my fav game in the entire series), it's just that I think that some of your points are incredibly blown out of proportion that I think invalidates it being classified as a mediocre game objectively, is it a much more flawed game than Pikmin 1? Absolutely. But is it a bad game? I'd say no, despite its flaws, it's still very strong (and also incredibly charming to me). So yeah, sorry for the long essay, feel free to correct me in any points, and thank you for reading. too long ain't reading allat also why do you pronounce Burrowing Snagret like that

[@RobotGuy405]

I think the point of Pikmin "not standing to gain anything from their continued labor" in 2 is kind of mute when it seems fairly clear to me that they are once again in dire straights as a species in that game, seeing as only a few of the 3 main types are left when you rediscover them. When you're going to end the first game with at least 30-40 of each, it seems weird that only 5-6 are left when you come back. What the Pikmin gain in Pikmin 2 is the same as in Pikmin 1, the continued survival of their species. This is hammered even harder in Pikmin 3 when Alph mentions that Blue Pikmin were very well possibly on the verge of extinction, further proving that they need a capable leader to thrive. Also you make it sound like Olimar was happy to return, when it is very much the opposite. He states in multiple Piklopedia entries that he just wishes to see his family, and in one he says he might take a little longer just to get back at the President. This is very clearly not a job he wants to do.

[@TheGemsbok]

I could understand how someone might set aside the increased focus on combat and the decreased importance of the mission---and maintain that the pikmin benefit to some degree regardless, from _any_ pikmin-farming that might be done by Olimar and his compatriots. But I struggle to comprehend how it would be possible for someone to conclude that Olimar is primarily an unwilling participant in the mission from the contents of his notes in the Piklopedia and the Treasure Hoard. Out of roughly 300 notes, Olimar arguably mentions missing his family in 4, and arguably mentions being dissatisfied with his job or boss in 8. The vast, vast, overwhelming majority of his notes pertain exclusively to his interest in the planet's species and landscape, his investigations of the planet's treasures, and his consumption of discovered food. Some notes actually include Olimar complaining about his family, with references to their nagging and the expense of supporting them. Moreover, while he does complain about his job those few times, he also frequently refers to his work on the planet in other notes with phrases like "vital mission," "daring adventure," and even "grand expedition." Hell, one of the entries where he is arguably complaining about the job actually ends like this: "looking at all the valuable treasures we've collected, I think we'll make a huge fortune! Then, I can hire an army of butlers to attend to my every whim."

[@RobotGuy405]

@@TheGemsbok I personally thought that his entries regarding his studies was just him making the most out of a bad situation, but I suppose that could be up for debate. Plus this should be considered a "vital mission" considering his job is on the line. He also complains about his wife in one of the end of day logs of Pikmin 1, and later takes back what he said. This shows that his complaining is just in the moment and doesn't reflect his true feelings. I truly thing that, if given the choice, Olimar would have opted out.

[@TheGemsbok]

If 'given the choice?' Sure, no argument here.

[@callowguru2611]

I think the main thing here is that Pikmin 1 and Pikmin 2 are games in different genres that appear similar on the surface. Pikmin 1 is a real time strategy survival horror puzzle game. Pikmin 2 is a dungeon crawling RPG. The improved pathfinding of the Pikmin in Pikmin 2 really emphasizes that the game's focus is on combat instead of puzzles or navigation. Pikmin 3 I think is yet another different game. It is a Real Time Strategy Puzzle game, based more around decision making than group management, minus the horror elements of 1.

[@caoistico669]

I like both :)

[@lightninja4795]

The games not for you • Not everyone finds the caves tedious • People like the treasure names and the amount • People have something called patience and can wait for a 5 second cutscene when you get a treasure • People like the longer length of pikmin 2 compared to the short length of pikmin 1 I think you see where im getting at.

[@lightninja4795]

• people like the story and not everyone finds it childish. • people can use the two captain's very effectively and you just cant but instead of seeing that you blame the game for it. Nice move.

[@lilianmanzi8408]

Bro like i agree with some things but a lot of themi dont agree like pikmin 2 final ending shows a kind of reforestation as in the whole game we clean the whole planet and in the end all pikmin start glowing which makes the planet beutifull again just what i got from the game idk if im dumb.

[@franklinshure960]

I mean.... that's a nice idea but it is pure fanfic on your part. All the scene shows is pikmin glowing and swaying. Nothin about "reforestation" without a big reach.

[@Sylvia_Corvidev]

Wrong!!! Currently firing a shrink ray at your location and sending you to the Submerged Castle (Also one of the first videos on the sidebar of this video for me is a video titled "Pikmin 2 is just better" which is hilarious)

[@the-golden-duck]

38:22 You can stop at any sublevel you want and comeback to play it to make more progress

[@META-1233]

PLAY PIKMIN 3

[@bivisbuns]

I totally agree, but I loved the voices and the Pikmin singing sometimes. I can accept that as Hocotatians their voices just sound kinda dumb to us despite the knowledge that they're highly intelligent, scientifically-inclined beings. You could even view the juxtaposition between their thoughtful internal dialogue and goofy dumb voices as further commentary, kinda highlighting how superficially we judge different forms of life. But yeah, overall, the tone of Pikmin 1 makes it a deeply personal, emotional game that the sequels are not. Also worth noting that being unwittingly thrust into a position of leadership, separated from family etc. could be interpreted as a really sad emotional viewpoint into Miyamoto's mindset at the time working for Nintendo. I always always intetpreted Pikmin this way, a thoughtful introvert being thrust into the unknown, being looked to for leadership, plodding through the scary and unknown partially for survival's sake and partially out of a fascination with the craft. In this respect, I like to view Pikmin 2 as a furtherance of this theme. Olimar successfully pulling off this emotional, personal journey only for his boss to immediately pawn off his stuff and send him back to dig for more treasure, paired up with a new employee who doesn't even care about what's going on - it's a sharp turn tonally, for the worse, but reads to me as a self-aware "yeah, the boss wants a sequel". If you take all the game's pro-sustainability themes into account, the capitalistic pointlessness of Pikmin 2 is all just more commentary in this realm: just substituting it being directly about humans with showing how the same excesses are present in Hocotatians. The tone in Pikmin 1 will never be replicated, so Nintendo not even trying was, imo, smart. The tone, lore additions, etc. are the strengths of the game imo. What you pointed out in terms of the two-Captains concept not being used effectively is the major weakness of the game to me. It's more like a bunch of linear levels, the entire ebb and flow of multitasking which should theoretically be stronger with two Captains is almost gone entirely due to caves and a lack of application in level designs.

[@andrescube64]

I’ve played the first game first, I really like it!!! The second game is absolutely awesome, I like it better than the original, I played 2 12 years later

[@azorbz9286]

I fail to understand your issue with caves. You say that the only thing that adds complexity and interest to the combat and puzzle elements of Pikmin is the time limit which is absent from the caves; however, in the caves, the complexity comes from limited PIKMIN resources. While on the surface, the player has practically infinite pikmin to complete a task (they can simply go back to the Onion to get more). In the caves, the player must strategise how to approach each combat encounter. Due to the fact that the player has limited pikmin, the trade-off between quick kills which may lose many pikmin, or slower, more considered combat is emphasised adding a layer of strategy that is ultimately missing from the first game. The fact that the player has no knowledge of how many floors the caves will have only adds to this strategy, with the player having decide whether it is worth losing more pikmin on a hard enemy now, or sparing them for a potential later floor. This totally mitigates the idea of burning through pikmin which you describe in your video (saying the surface is to grow pikmin so that you can burn through them in caves, which is also not true for the alleged trivialising purples), since if you waste too many pikmin on an early floor, the later floors become even more challenging than they otherwise are. To me, it sounds like you don't like the caves because they don't employ the same strategy elements as pikmin 1 rather than there being any substantial objective issue with them. The purples are also much more balanced than you let on. Yes, on the overworld, combat is simplified with the help of purple pikmin. This is not true for the caves. In the caves, you need to bring in many of each type of pikmin to deal with their hazards, limiting how many purples you can bring since they have no hazard immunities (this is not true on the above ground sections since you can clear all hazards and them come back through with purples to do combat). Purples are further balanced by their lack of speed which means that, in the event of any player error, purples are more likely to die. The lack of speed also means that, for many enemies, purples are not the optimal choice. For example, the cannon beetle larvae are difficult to maneuver around with purples. If the player succeeds in doing so, then they are rewarded with an easier kill, although even then purples are more likely to die since their strategic advantage comes from being thrown rather than being swarmed, meaning they're more likely to be thrown off the map by player or enemy. A further note I have on the teams of pikmin brought in the caves is that the candypop buds further encourage the player to bring in more farmable pikmin to exchange for whites and purples as to avoid having too few to face hazards. For new players in particular, this further limits the use of purples in caves.

[@the-golden-duck]

33:14 You act like you some treasures aren't in water you act like there aren't sublevels where you are not surrounded by water.

[@the-golden-duck]

16:16 I find it weird you say gladly when he is FORCED to go back to pnf-404 when he didn't wanna go back you make it see like he gladly left his family if he didn't go back he probably would have been fired.

[@konradbreeggemann2321]

counterargument: Bulbmin, that is all.

[@TheGemsbok]

Ha, well, I think you'll find bulbmin _are_ actually praised in this video.

[@Nic_2751]

Counter counter argument: Giant Breadbug

[@lightninja4795]

Uh did you even play Pikmin 2 the purple Pikmin slow speed does matter unless your telling me you enjoy waiting every couple steps for your purples to catch up so I don’t know where you got that from as their slow speed does matter. Also while they are strong they do not break the game as the game has ways to challenge you still.

[@the-golden-duck]

You say the end of day results is useless in Pikmin 2 but it relives the stress of clearing a cave getting all the treasures in a area.

[@raiz093]

Nuh huh

[@lightninja4795]

Man I hate saying this but it seems like you are just trying to find reasons to hate this game. Really complaining about the pikmin functions and items thats saying something. The treasures are just as interesting as the ship parts and they made the Pikmin types more useful especially the yellows since in the first game they were used like white pikmin when holding a bomb rock.

[@owenduffy5745]

Pikmin 1 is great, but the fact that it's so much more janky than 2 really drags down it's enjoyability for me. Pikmin 3 and 4 are far too easy. Pikmin 2 hits the best sweet spot for pikmin controls and enemy difficulty

[@lightninja4795]

Every time I watch this I keep seeing more problems in your review. Did you ever think that maybe pikmin 2 isn’t for you. You say the caves determine the game but go ask people if they do hurt the game and I bet you it will either be slightly hurting the game or slightly not again this just seems like you want a reason to complain.

[@juliet4093]

did you really rant about a gameplay mechanic as tho its lore (caves freezing time)