Preeminent Joseph Smith Historian Dan Vogel Pt. 1 | Ep. 1051

[@thebluehotel426]

I'm so glad to find Dan Vogel Dan again. I'm not a Mormon, but a history buff learning about this powerful strain in American history and culture.

[@daric_]

I've been waiting so long for this. Dan Vogel's videos, in particular the ones about the priesthood restoration accounts, 3 and 8 witnesses, golden plates, etc., were so enlightening. They were one of the things that started me down the path of leaving Mormonism. I am a Reformed Protestant Christian now. Thank you, Dan, for your amazing work and thanks John for this interview.

[@kentthalman4459]

So great to hear from the man who goes overboard in gathering the evidence and then lets it lead to the honest narrative.

[@TerryC69]

I've recently become acquainted with Dan's work via his YT channel. Dan is an utterly amazing researcher. I enjoyed this portion of the interview very much. Thanks, John!

[@mrlds3202]

I am probably the only church member who agrees with Dan Vogel that the plates are a 'noble lie'. I think it's much more interesting and fruitful to argue whether that 'noble lie' and original deception was justified or led to something positive, it's an interesting philosophical question which I would answer finally affirmatively that it was justified and created good in the world. However it's a lot more interesting of a discussion than to debate whether the Book of Mormon is an accurate historical document which it's clearly not. Also I find Dan Vogel to be very unbiased and to be without anger or malevolence which makes his authorship very fair and accessible even for someone like myself who is radically devoted to the truth while still being a church member, thanks Mr Vogel for the great scholarship!

[@LenaLindroth-g1v]

Mr Dan is one of the finest and brightes! Thank you

[@kathrynevans3974]

1833... His family was right at the beginning... So much of his life and history wrapped up in LDS history. Kudos to you, Dan, for making a successful exit from LDS religion. What a difficult journey you must habe gone through. I'm very impressed and inspired. Thank you for sharing this journey and history.

[@davewilson4094]

Best set of interviews ever about Mormonism, Joseph Smith, and the Book of Mormon ever! Dan seems to have overcome personal bias and his explanation about the origins of Mormonism are the most plausible that I have ever heard. Having worked through the journey of my exit from Mormonism, I stopped at just knowing it was not for me and it wasn't what it represented itself to be. Joseph Smith had to be a fraud or a genius or both. Dan Vogel has made a great sacrifice by devoting what seems to be most of his life in answering the questions with no ax to grind, just looking at the information, and determining what is most plausible. I admire that him when he says he doesn't know or this is my theory or yes, there are those stories out there but they are outliers... I really appreciated the push-back and deep follow up questions and staying on track interview John Dehlin does here.

[@pavement66]

Was there any discussion on The Late War? Noticed a lot of talk on View of the Hebrews but it seems plausible that The Late War contains reference material

[@bmrphoto]

Thank you Dan and John. I have listened to most of Dan's podcast/videos and am so excited to have just learned, from watching this podcast, that we share the same great great great grandfather, Warren Foote . My grandpa, Garth Homer Killpack, gave me a copy of the Autobiography of Warren Foote a few years ago before he died and I am reading it now. I am the last member of my family to still have my name on the records of the church. Dan's videos have been so great at really exposing the truth and making a future transition a much easier road ahead. Thanks Dan and thanks to John for such interesting podcasts.

[@brenda8010]

I am married to dale Killpack in idaho, interested in a connection in the family's

[@davidbanks4168]

As a British guy who respects Dan Vogels work - it’s so great to hear him using the phrase ‘cheeky monkey’.

[@derekbeauchamp2409]

It’s Saturday 20 January 2024 and I’ve just found this video. And looking forward to seeing the rest of the videos on Dan Vogel.

[@franklinshouse8719]

I find it interesting and amazing that mormons spend so much of their time trying to convince themselves that the church is true. I can't think of any other church that is as preoccupied with that activity.

[@LaurenKastenaw-ke4pq]

It's funny that you seem surprised that someone was unaware of the issues until 2017. I was oblivious until 2020 and then continued ignoring the issues until 2023.

[@robpaulson7992]

Hey Dan: Can you please do a video explaining the difference between a cell phone and a seer stone? (apparently some people are confused)

[@robpaulson7992]

@@jonbystrom9410 - I would certainly not use a seer stone, because seerstones are just rocks. They do not have power to translate ancient languages. Seerstones are simply a way of diverting your attention away from what is really going on, like a magician's wand, so that you won't see what is really happening (i.e. how you are being conned). Using a seerstone is a badge of fraud.

[@robpaulson7992]

@@jonbystrom9410 -Yes, Joseph Smith's claim that he translated the book of momon using a seerstone is "Nonsense!"

[@robpaulson7992]

@@jonbystrom9410 - I realize that your mind has a hard time grasping this, but ad hominem arguments are meaningless. This isn't about me. Its about the fact that Joseph Smith was a con man and a liar.

[@GrahamHettinger]

Well I know what I'm doing with the next 8 hours of my life! Thanks Dan and John!

[@kathrynevans3974]

Me too!! I'll be watching the rest of these Dan Vogel videos. Interesting stuff and answers a lot of questions.

[@harpsickle5205]

I served in the England Birmingham Mission! Makes me proud to have served in the same area as Dan Vogel!

[@futureZbright]

Thank you for the edification.

[@alexisdigital]

I've listened to every episode with Dan Vogel. This is a riveting story.

[@beholdhisglory1657]

Favorite Primary/Sunday School song? “Popcorn popping on the apricot tree.” Is that still sung? 😁

[@kathrynevans3974]

LOL -- I forgot all about "popcorn popping...". What a great primary song -- distinctly remember that song.

[@AarmOZ84]

The interview I have been expecting you to do John for 10 years now.

[@mikeoyler2983]

I've never understood why Fawn Brody is counted as "anti-mormon". She successfully demonstrated through primary sources that the life and times of Smith were very different from the Church's narrative. The book is very aptly titled! Even Bushman references her in the preface of 'Rough Stone Rolling.'

[@jonmoonswesternnyoutdoorad5750]

The moment ive been waiting for.

[@danblackwelder5995]

Very interesting: Totally amazed, Dan Vogel a direct descendant of George Lane! “ He quoted the Golden text of James. “ If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God...” while Joseph Smith and family were in attendance. So says William Smith? George Lane helped inspire Joseph Smith at the beginning and his descendant, Dan Vogel, now helps in understanding the real history of the past. How “providential”, as Lucy Mack would say.

[@beholdhisglory1657]

Just curious, has anybody ever named their child after Brigham Young? I’ve never heard of anyone, and I’ve lived in UT all my life.

[@JamieBarrington]

I know of a Mormon guy named Brigham from the town I used to live in. He's probably about 25 years old now.

[@beholdhisglory1657]

Thanks, Jamie. That’s interesting. Was the young man among the largest Mormon sect? Brigham’s name is probably used more among the FLDS or polygamist sects of the Mormon church, but rarely heard among the largest sect. I was curious when they named their boys after Mormon prophets, why Brigham’s name wasn’t used more. I never thought about it when I was a Latter Day Saint, but I can’t help but wonder if there’s a sense of shame connected to it.

[@JamieBarrington]

@@beholdhisglory1657 Yes, he's a member of the largest sect. He was a good friend of my ex-sister-in-law when she was in high school about 8 years ago. I think he went on to be a missionary after graduation. He and his parents are your typical middle class Mormons in North Florida. He's the only Brigham I have ever come across. I have thought the same thing about shame being connected to that name.

[@kathrynevans3974]

I've asked myself this same question about the lack of folks naming their children after "Brigham Young" - someone brings up the point tat perhaps there is "shame" associated with the name. Interesting and curious.

[@iamjustonemom1950]

Is there an online purchase point for Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet by Dan Vogel? Amazon has one copy $346.... TY

[@batmanuel08]

John is there a place to get the book for less than 800 dollars? Everywhere I look it's beyond my price range.

[@mormonstories]

The book is out of print, but a free online version can be found here: signaturebookslibrary.org/joseph-smith-the-making-of-a-prophet/

[@sherylnelson6094]

His book on Amazon is over $800. Is there another source that you know of?

[@danvogel6802]

signaturebookslibrary.org/joseph-smith-the-making-of-a-prophet/

[@danvogel6802]

Online version: signaturebookslibrary.org/joseph-smith-the-making-of-a-prophet/

[@mormonstories]

The book is out of print, but a free online version can be found here: signaturebookslibrary.org/joseph-smith-the-making-of-a-prophet/

[@pavement66]

Wait so is Jon Stewart playing this Vogel guy?

[@jdnlaw1974]

I think the reason you’re getting such an increase in new visitors is because of the recent rise in curiosity about the fraud and misrepresentations made by the church about Joseph Smith and the LDS.

[@chrispierce9699]

I lived in Orange around the same time as you maybe. I went to Cambridge elementary. We went to church for a while at an old school. We used to go to riverside park. Anyway I have read your

[@ronhill4829]

John's tone/intent has certainly changed since he got X'ed.

[@pavement66]

Good! Showing he's got teeth now.

[@funkyfreshtx]

According to the Family Search app, my kids are your 10th cousins, Dan

[@bouji_]

How does this guy know how family lineage going all the way back to the 1830's? Is that possible? Or is it just a Mormon thing?

[@mtbikingaddict]

Thank God Dan Vogel has Aspergers Disease

[@Mindy14]

Classic ADHD lol I would have noticed even if he hadn’t mentioned it.

[@jwcampbell2598]

Look up the word BIGOT.