How the Book of Mormon was Created - Dan Vogel Pt. 3 | Ep. 1058

[@miketalbot9726]

I've gone through nearly all of Dan's videos. This subject is his life's work. He is more thorough in his research than any other author that I know of. Such a treasure of knowledge. I feel like he has an incredible grasp on the full story. Thank you for the interview!

[@bobtiger3558]

Dan Vogel is a treasure

[@tracy8359]

And John found him using a deer stone. ;)

[@donnarohde5157]

I've never been more proud to call him my brother. Sorry it took me so long to watch this. Great interview Danny!

[@bobhasse9484]

Thanks, Mr. Dehlin! Your show is great and this interview series with Mr. Vogel was terrific!

[@Justine-ut8ho]

What a pure human. Dan Vogel is amazing

[@kamilziemian995]

I learn a lot about Mormonism from this three videos.

[@rychei5393]

I absolutely love Vogel!

[@keviny4357]

Absolutely the best ever. Dan is great!

[@delta932899]

I learn so much when you interview Dan

[@perrykim5]

Thank You to Dan ! Can’t wait to check out all your books!!

[@The_PhilosoFIST]

Dan's KZbin channel really helped me understand the historical context, and unwind the superstition from my mind

[@karencross3815]

Whatever Smith believed, he put his own desires above everything else. His disregard and ability to abuse women of all ages puts him in the despicable aisle of evil men. This series is the best yet. I am going to donate to the billboard fund. Keep exposing the fraud.

[@jaysoncohen8250]

Xs100 on that statement. This , to me is the crux of the enigma of Joseph Smith.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Reading Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling, there is an interesting ending concerning Emma. After Joseph's death, she turned away from the church and also didn't get involved heavily in the RLDS church. But still she kept a lock of hair of Joseph her whole life. I think he was a narcissist, and that Emma was ensnared by his love bombing and didn't realize his dark side, which included extramarital aff... ehm polygamy.

[@gxgx1190]

Dan Vogel is amazing

[@878dynamis]

I would love a Q&A session

[@patricianoel7782]

Referring to Book Of Mormon transcripts. Dan, you rock!!!

[@Mizzlenum]

I’m humbled by the minds of dr John Dehlin and the people he interviews... I’m a Mayan and I’m offended that to this day there are people in good faith teaching my people false doctrines. lol by the way.... elder Dehlin was my zone leader in Guatemala north mission....well even a humble Guatemalan can hear the truth....I mean the lies of Mormonism..

[@11UncleBooker22]

Our ancestors were G-d fearing, Christ loving, faithful members of various groups of Restoration churches but they didn't know and didn't know they didn't know. We who choose to think with a critical mind are now forced to deeply examine not only 1 source but ALL sources related to the history of the Restoration gospel. During my life I have watched individuals and groups bury their heads deeper in the sands of theological denial. Others, myself included, chose to research available information about the Restoration gospel that at times could be theologically devastating. My sincere wish is that we can all find peace with our inherited faith traditions historical origins. Finding out that there's a "Man behind the curtain" as in the classic movie The wizard of Oz can cause a person to throw out rich and positive relationships within a faith tradition and it's sacred stories. However we need to remember an additional lesson from the movie The Wizard of Oz that is often over looked. That lesson is that everything Dorothy and her companions wanted the Wizard to give them they ALREADY had. In like manner humans should look inward and not to another human for the gifts or strengths they already have. Thanks again to Dr. John and crew for a wonderfully produced interview and thank you also Dan Vogel for your continued efforts to assist others in their search for truth.

[@taylor.rafferty]

If we are to look inwardly, as in the Wizard of Oz, we would see that none of our religious views are self-determined; everything we believe is shaped by the people who came before us. It’s on us to choose the dogma we wish to follow-and the conduct of the men who developed that dogma is highly relevant in that determination. The men who founded the LDS left behind an incredibly thorough record of their lives and conduct. I think it’s entirely reasonable to abandon a faith if it’s founder is a known Charlatan and down-right immoral person.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

When I as a nevermo studied the theology if Mormonism, I found many theological gems such as personal revelation, agency. But these would lead to splintering, and thus Joseph superimposed a pope like hierarchical structure. When I discussed with the missionaries, the gist of it was "pray about things, and you will receive an answer" That can lead to anything, including modern day polygamy, believing in the Quran, etc.

[@messengerofhope31]

"Joe Smith could lie." Mormons hear "Joseph smith could fly!"

[@jacobreeves3110]

Joseph smith was an exceptional human. To make something like this succeed you would need to be the most charismatic person alive. Plus his creativity was through the roof.

[@3thingsfishing427]

The people around him were gullible, so the bar was a bit lower. Plus no modern science or understanding of the Egyptian language at the time.

[@erwindecker]

Love Dan!

[@harlanlang6556]

This is a real education for us non-Mormons. The story of the real Joseph Smith would make a great movie! It would have everything: religion, sex, power struggles, magic and superstition. You could probably get all the financing you could handle from the Evangelicals. It's fascinating that Joseph Smith lived just before the sciences began to explode which would eventually be used to prove his ideas to be false. What I find interesting is that Mormonism eventually brought about a community of good people who were held together by their common beliefs and commitments to the "truth". Isn't it possible to have such a uniting common belief which is consistent with scientific reality and absent tribalism, racism, and nationalism?

[@christiea.6778]

Look up the podcast with Jeremy Young. He said he’s currently working on a mini series about Joseph Smith history.

[@harlanlang6556]

@@christiea.6778 Thanks! It would take a mini series to do it justice.

[@JamieBarrington]

I agree! I loved the show, Big Love, which was about the FLDS in Utah. Joseph's REAL origin story would be absolutely fascinating.

[@harlanlang6556]

@@JamieBarrington I watched Big Love too. It was gripping!! It will be interesting to see the similarity of today's FLDS and the LDS of Joseph Smith's time. The FLDS believe that they are going back to the original LDS beliefs and culture.

[@alyssahansen1400]

@@harlanlang6556 The FLDS are evil, very evil. Boils my blood.

[@beholdhisglory1657]

I thought I remembered the church portraying a veil between Cowdery & Smith during translation of the BOM, too.

[@TheDudeKicker]

i was told that too.

[@fellowviewer1095]

I definitely remember that. As a kid I remember thinking he could easily be lying about what he had.

[@patricianoel7782]

Ebenezer Robinson was shocked to hear him say, as he flipped through the pages to make sure it was complete: “I’ve had trouble enough with this thing.” from “No Man Knows My History “ Fawn Brodie Also read, “Rough Stone” by Richard Bushman to answer A LOT OF YOUR QUESTIONS, listeners.

[@jazun33]

Why aren't Dan's books on Amazon? Its like they're out of publication

[@mormonstories]

The book is out of print, but a free online version can be found here: signaturebookslibrary.org/joseph-smith-the-making-of-a-prophet/

[@aimeecastillo746]

@@mormonstories Thank you mormon stories! Thank you Dan Vogel! Thank you Signature Books! Thanks to the link Mormon Stories posted above. Now we can all read this book! Since it's out of print. If Signature Books can do another printing, I bet they could sell every single copy. After all, there are millions of Mormons that need to read this! Even if only hundreds bought it and read it, I think the truth would spread. I hope.

[@christiea.6778]

Every time I watch one of your podcasts KZbin plays adds for cheesy Christian movies 🤣🤣🤣

[@alexrodrigues1861]

I didn't get what he meant in 11:52. Can anyone help?

[@charlesmendeley9823]

There are stories that Samuel Lawrence actually injected the Urim and Thummim, which were giant glasses, into the narrative. In the old testament, the Urim and Thummim were actually lots which the priest could throw to obtain yes/no answers ("Should we go to war?"). According to the mound builder myth, the mounds were created by giants. Consequently, the Mormon Urim and Thummim were giant spectacles with two seer stones. Samuel said to Joseph at the Hill Cumorah: "if he had ever discovered any thing with the plates of gold; he [Smith] said no: he then asked him to look in his stone, to see if there was any thing with them. He looked, and said there was nothing; he told him to look again, and see if there was not a large pair of specks with the plates; he looked and soon saw a pair of spectacles, the same with which Joseph says he translated the Book of Mormon." Lawrence proved that his seeing power was stronger than Joseph's, because he saw the spectacles that Joseph didn't see. On the contrary, Joseph was stuck with the nonsense giant spectacles, which doesn't fit the narrative, since the ancient culture was normal sized Jews. 😂

[@3thingsfishing427]

JS and sl went to Comorah hill. SL said he saw spectacles. JS needed sl's testimony at the time. It bolstered his case because SL had pull in the community. Same thing with oc. At least that's my take away.

[@MrMartinmonge2000]

que pena que los hispano hablantes no tengamos esta informacion ya que todo esta en ingles, I speaking English but too much for Learning !

[@kapkone]

The book is not available

[@heidibawden7318]

Dan Vogel is the Elon Musk of the Book of Mormon ❤ Dan has Superpowers

[@davidkimber1382]

So interesting! Not being able to see the plates seems analogous to the Ark of the Covenant, which was also off limits to mere mortals, and therefore such a prohibition may have been easy to rationalise.

[@russell2233]

Mr. Vogel is very generous in ascribing pious motives to a man he also calls a narcissist who wants to be king. I think when he is being generous about Smith's motives, he's forgetting about the fact that the guy got enough power to sexually abuse underage girls and many woman he conveniently made his "wives." Joseph Smith sounds like more like a sociopath than just a narcissist. Those personality characteristics are not nutually exclusive.

[@stevemitchell8267]

Why would Oliver admit to his law partner, Judge Lang, that the BOM was a fraud? Maybe Oliver was having a frank discussion with his trusted law partner. Better question. Why would Judge Lang lie? Also, remember that Oliver apologized to his Methodist church for his involvement in Mormonism. Why did Oliver go back to the church in 1848? Maybe because it made him a Mormon rock star?

[@phizzelout]

Bottom line is Gal 1:6 warns us about Joe Jr. When somebody lies like this I don't give them a second breath.

[@JIKOKALOL]

Mind boggling that people believe and follow after someone like Joseph Smith.

[@savagenation01]

I have a genuine question. I try to put myself in JS's shoes. If everything really was fabricated ... what was the point of it all? As far as I know, the man did suffer a great deal for establishing Mormonism. He was jailed man times, prosecuted, taken from his family, poisoned, beaten, tarred and feathered, had to bury a couple of his kids, and ultimately murdered. I don't know but... if I was him and I knew this was all BS, its like why go through all of that. He paid the ultimate price and without a penny to his name. I don't know 🤷‍♂️

[@fellowviewer1095]

He had far more than a penny to his name. Have you seen the Joseph Smith mansion? He didn't do actual work, he had sex without repercussion with whomever he wanted (often through coercion, and he had power. Additionally, the "persecution" you speak of was the result of other activities- (like the sex and the smashing of the printing press) not being the prophet.

[@thomaschoate976]

Towards the end of his life, Joseph Smith had grown a massive cult following, with thousands of devoted followers who, for the most part, were unquestionably loyal to him. He was Prophet of the Restoration, Mayor of Nauvoo, and Lieutenant General of his own militia, the Nauvoo Legion, at his command. He sought power, money, and women as he introduced the secret practice of polygamy. He married other men’s wives and teenage girls. He ran for President of the United States and had a secret council that anointed him “Prophet, Priest, and King” of the theocracy he wanted to establish. This is what Smith gained and aspired to in his life.

[@allim.5941]

Is this dude high?

[@snowmj]

Plot twist. Joseph smith was actually a prophet despite his flaws.

[@suigeneris2663]

Lol, see comment on #2