Presidential TFR | Landing DENIED TO PRIVATE FLIGHTS at Phoenix!

[@VASAviation]

NOTAMs...

[@Chat562]

Stands for Notice to AirMen

[@VASAviation]

@@Chat562 Oh really? I don't think it does anymore.

[@trulybtd5396]

@@VASAviation notice to air mission according to FAA

[@すどにむ]

...stands for "not applicable to me" I've heard /s

[@Chat562]

@@trulybtd5396 Pure nonsense. Missions don't get notices. People do. January 21st can't come soon enough.

[@trulybtd5396]

That is one helpful controller

[@tosh7031]

spectacular , felt like concierge service tbh.

[@spaert]

Kudos to the pilot for handling a frustrating situation with grace. And to ATC for being as helpful as possible. Great exchange.

[@JMHTruck32005]

👍👍👍

[@wbgookin]

Yeah, it's refreshing to watch one of these where the pilot does what ATC tells him to and everyone is communicating clearly!

[@alan.macrae]

Exactly, total professionalism on both sides.

[@EthanCorley]

I work at Scottsdale. These pilots always bring me tortillas! I love them! They do check NOTAMS, this is not the first time a TFR has been in our area and every time they do everything correctly. The TFR got pushed back a couple hours while they were already in the air. No warning. I remember bc I was at work that day and we all got happy when they extended it bc we just get to sit there.

[@paulstejskal]

Thanks for the clarification. Glad these guys are super nice.

[@spaert]

Thanks for the insight. You folks are obviously topnotch to work with - and it was a bonus that the TFR gave the controller some time to check around for customs locations. That was an extra nice touch, in my opinion.

[@davedoe6445]

Yeah bummer for the pilot, I am sure he is just working to make his client passengers happy

[@spacewolfjr]

He always brings me big saran wrapped bricks of powered sugar for his cousin Tony to pick up!

[@mccd8334]

@@spacewolfjrbahahahhahahahahahahaaaaa

[@sparrowcar]

Excellent pilot communications matched by exceptional ATC communication. Nobody lost their cool and worked together. Well done.

[@Mrrotts17]

There’s something satisfying watching an ATC video with a non-native English speaking pilot and a native speaker and hearing them communicate so well. Love to see it!

[@josh3771]

Very professional ATC and pilot who overcame a frustrating problem

[@Garythefireman66]

Probably one of the best pilot/ATC comms videos. Both sides worked together and had a good outcome. Well done by all

[@miokujou]

Everyone was professional and Pilatus didn't make a fuss and was willing to go back. Major props to ATC for bending over backwards for Pilatus and trying to accomodate them to the best of what they are able to do. Also props to Pilatus for the professionalism and clear communication.

[@rob_smith]

Presidential TFRs can change the time by hours with little to no notice. It sounds like this pilot knew about the TFR, but the time had changed while he was in the air. This happened to me once flying out of KBFI: I checked the TFR before driving to the airport and everything was fine, but by the time I arrived the TFR had moved up nearly an hour! I had to load and takeoff in 10 minutes and barely made it out. If the president is running ahead of schedule they will change the TFR and they don’t care about the consequences.

[@FlyingMaxFr]

VIP TFRs in the US are crazy. I can't imagine the burden on the local economy everytime the president moves from one area to another

[@sarahalbers5555]

Very interesting.

[@brandonadams7837]

It doesn’t sound like the time changed. The pilot didn’t read the notes. Most VIP TFRs prohibit part 91 ops. ATC specified this without saying “121”, but used the wording regularly scheduled airlines, which is what 121 is. TFR notes can be long, you just have to read them to see what’s allowed or not. You can fly through most of them even part 91 if you’re IFR and squawking, or sometimes even VFR and squawking. Just have to read the full TFR and understand it.

[@Zaephyrs]

The TFR allows commercial passenger and cargo flights that meet required security protocols. The pilot sounds like a professional pilot who is consulting with a passenger on how to proceed, possibly a charter client. As the TFR does not call out operations by specific part, maybe he thought part 135 operations were allowed. Based in his radio work, he sounds very professional; willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[@2Phast4Rocket]

The FAA is so bad at planning the TFR

[@dukeofrodtown1705]

Props to that controller! Even better nobody lost their temper and that the situation was resolved peaceably. Best of all, air police / military didn't have to get involved.

[@jaynecobb1]

I think you meant turboprops to that controller. "Pilatus PC-12 is a pressurized, single-engined, turboprop aircraft"

[@dukeofrodtown1705]

@@jaynecobb1 LOL

[@elcastorgrande]

Very professional. They worked the problem, without assigning fault or getting hot.

[@forsureacarguy1239]

Love this controller! Always so helpful and professional

[@skywaymanaz]

It sounded to me like the pilot was aware of the TFR. He thought it was starting later though. Either he misunderstood the start time or maybe it started early. I barely beat a TFR once into Flagstaff. I knew about it and advised controller we could divert. They let us in but the FBO chased us out pretty fast ;)

[@spaert]

And he apparently didn't catch that GA aircraft weren't being accommodated. Only commercial.

[@fumo7887]

@@spaert That's a standard part of these TFRs. If every Bravo airport had to shut down to commercial traffic when POTUS was in town, it'd be a nightmare. Sounds like the issue was the TFR went into effect earlier than published.

[@spaert]

@@fumo7887 Thanks for the clarification.

[@patricklora4434]

​@@fumo7887They do shut down the Bravo to commercial too, briefly, when the POTUS is actually arriving and departing. It can sometimes be crazy but that's usually with last minute or unexpected schedule changes.

[@johanjacobs9240]

At least nobody lost their temper with a good outcome.

[@tommaxwell429]

Well that went smoothly! Not the typical exchange we hear in these videos. Well done! Glad it all worked out.

[@ApexNick]

During my private pilot check ride many decades ago, a president (think it was one of the Bushes) detoured and landed at the airport that we were based out of while I was off on my check ride. That was a very interesting day.

[@fleetwoodpup8328]

Very helpful controller, and the aircrew got some more flying for the logbook:-). Frequent NOTAM checks are a good thing though!

[@SpidaMez]

no one reads notams

[@jonesjones7057]

Yeah if you can find the notams that actually matter in the vast, never ending sea of useless BS, and never miss that ONE notam per decade that actually Fs you.

[@st8ks967]

it’s obv he did read the notams as he knew what time it opened for air carriers. a slight misread is all that happened

[@Camdennnn]

@@SpidaMezuhhhhh you sure about that one

[@flyingheart2007]

Presidential TFRs can be very unpredictable. I’ve held on the ground or outside airspace when one suddenly popped up or changed times near Camp David.

[@Sebastopolmark]

GREAT controllers. They did everything they could to accommodate the pilots requests! !! !!!

[@joeheitz1833]

Great job by the controller/s working on getting him alternate options, helping with international clearance, and then working to get them back in after the TFR announced closing. Great pilot communications. Good job all around.

[@dwhip49]

So many of these ATC type videos are about gomer behavior of either air crew or controllers....nice to hear a professional comm. session

[@michaelmartin8036]

ATC was extremely helpful and the pilot understood and didn't make any issue of it. I love it when a story has a happy ending!

[@Dainus77]

This was a great example of both parties working together calmly and exploring options for a solution. Great job!!! Well done to two aviation professionals.

[@sky173]

Gotta admit. They both handled everything very well.

[@whitelobster1ify]

Pilatus jokes aside, the pilot was reasonable despite his lack of planning and ATC really bent over backwards to help him out. All things considered, not bad.

[@DG1TAL]

I’m out of the loop, what are the usual Pilatus jokes?

[@twoleftnuts]

No kidding. We’re supposed to treat being controllers as “customer service” but this guy really went above and beyond. Either it was a slow day or he was just an excellent controller. Maybe both lol

[@roscozone8092]

Pilot clearly read the NOTAM and knew TFR became active at :15, just didn’t realise how it impacted his flight. NOTAMs are difficult to understand for English first language speakers, due largely to the ABBVs., I can only imagine how English-second-language speakers struggle with them.

[@pjotrtje0NL]

@@DG1TALwant to know these as well, don’t know of any myself

[@whitelobster1ify]

@ Great point.

[@roosterinorbit]

“Vectors please!” Anything but a hold 😂

[@peter78072]

Excellent example of problem solving whilst maintaining professionalism and courtesy of all involved.

[@mickemike2148]

Freaking beautiful teamwork right here!

[@LeandroAragon]

Kudos for the ATC!!! Amazing guys!!!

[@janofb]

This is why I love flying. All professional, all working the problem, no emotions.

[@naturalverities]

No phone number was abused in the making of this video.

[@twoleftnuts]

I’ll do you the courtesy of telling you ahead of time, but I’m 100% stealing that. This might be my new favorite aviation related quote

[@AlyssaM_InfoSec]

Refreshing to see one of these where everyone was calm and professional and just worked together.

[@rodcoulter997]

Hey PHX APP ATC….….nice job….they have always been good.

[@ajhorak8371]

As someone who flies out of Scottsdale, PHX TRACON are top notch people, and are always great to work with.

[@Tirani2]

This is the way it's supposed to work. Well done on both sides.

[@mwhe3111]

Very well done by both persons.

[@pbrenneman5]

Wow the controller didnt even blink offering to vector him around for 45 minutes, what a champ

[@xheralt]

I suspect the PIC, while fairly good with English, took vectors because he wasn't confident of understanding and executing ad hoc hold instructions properly in unfamiliar skies from waypoints he'd likely never heard of before. He didn't want to accidentally violate the TFR zone or even remotely risk it. Kudos for knowing his own limitations, and working around them.

[@vbscript2]

I think this was the most professional VIP TFR mishap I've heard. Aside from the initial misunderstanding of the NOTAM, good job to both the pilot and the controller.

[@JoshWelsh]

Great example of ATC and Pilot working well together, extra kudos to ATC for providing all those options

[@dortheawatson3938]

Very nice interactions between ATC and the Pilatus

[@petemccole9774]

Very professional from both the pilot and ATC. A little different from what we usually get here sometimes ;)

[@BlackberryTheMCPro]

Flew in that day around 630pm in a T6. Glad I didn't have to deal with this lol

[@USmilitarypower8]

I know these pilots; they fly in all the time to Scottsdale airport. The nicest guys I've ever met in my life, always joking and have a smile on their face.

[@joeglennaz]

I learned to fly and get my private pilots license at sky Harbor. The controllers are great back then that was the late 80s.

[@barryo5158]

Excellent!

[@Obiwan234]

Great ATC controller, well handled by him and the pilot.

[@2dfx]

Classic VASAviation. 7:39 Expect runway 8, awesome. 7:42 Victor says "GOTCHA, IT WAS ACTUALLY 7R" 🤣

[@Wilem35]

Great work

[@sinisamandaric]

Exceptional work from the controller.

[@malekodesouza7255]

Two professionals. Kudos.

[@razorseal]

We deal with these TFRs in South Florida non stop. Presidential, VIP... all of it. They change alot and do change while you're in the air. Reading them is always fun (not). luckily for us, they do allow GA aircraft to travel through as long as 2 way comms are maintained and discrete squawk. They really are a pain.

[@robertgary3561]

I can see how this happens. I fly into phx a lot. There are often tfrs for professional sports which atc can authorize and always do. So we fly through the tfr regularly. Unfortunately for a presidential tfr atc can only authorize scheduled 121 service. .

[@johnnyfive1412]

You working on ATC recording from that Spirit plane that was hit by gunfire?

[@legofreak3204]

VIP *grumble* I am also a VIP, at least with regard to my family. And do I get such privileges ? BTW: Here in Germany, when POTUS visited, they shut down half the city and kept two alternative highway routes to the airport open for hours with absurd restrictions. The next day the president was in Prague and was shaking hands in the crowd ...

[@gtm624]

As a student and I’ve also heard many others agree, I can say the notam system needs updating. This guy sounded like a decent pilot. Maybe he did check notams and somehow missed it. Especially being from out of the country who knows what his typical flight plan resources are. Not checking or catching notams can get one or others killed. Not good any which way.

[@davidhandyman7571]

He was aware of it. The time had been changed.

[@gtm624]

@ oh right. Because he had said oh it starts at such and such time but then the controller said otherwise. Good idea to check more than just once prior to departure. Especially cutting it close as many do lol.

[@TJsWorld7]

I thought they'd divert to Mesa Gateway, the runway is probably too small. I also know why I heard plane engines right above my house!

[@nightdesigns395]

Always surprises me they fly into Sky Harbor when Luke AFB is not that far and it seems like it would be easier to handle the VIP. Plus the last few VIP visits were all to the west side, closer to Luke.

[@spaert]

I imagine that when the Commander in Chief flies into an air force base, all the brass has to turn out and formalities performed, etc. It's probably a lot more time efficient to land at Sky Harbor and get the man moving straightaway. Just a guess.

[@bbgun061]

It's 20 miles away. Not that far to fly but a long way for a motorcade. I guess it depends where the President is going...

[@TylerMak2]

The event that Biden was attending was at the Gila River reservation. It would be over an hour drive to get to and from Luke AFB.

[@backandforthupanddow]

Nice job from the controller. I feel for the pilot, what a frustrating situation.

[@nolanrussell518]

This is so beautiful!

[@joshuacaranci5967]

I was doing an IFR flight through the Tfr and only caught the end of this conversation when they actually got to land, it all makes sense now😂

[@mapolinski]

That's why you need plenty of fuel

[@wadesaxton6079]

I feel for this guy, US VIP TFRs are confusing and it’s easy to mis-understand something. It doesn’t help that the TFR can extend with no notice of the VIP is running late. Good job to ATC and the pilot for patience all around. I hope Customs was understanding with them being late. PHX customs are great when it’s during the window they want. I’ve had friends get called in the air with their landing rights revoked because they were running late.

[@canadianwing]

ATC was fantastic. proves that american ATC are there to help you as a pilot!

[@watty9297]

... except at JFK ;-)

[@TinLeadHammer]

ATC are there to help you as a controller ;)

[@Jack-bz5cw]

Pilot chose vectors over a hold faster than I could blink lol

[@joeellis5766]

PHX approach ATC are great!

[@Boodieman72]

Good pilot controller interaction.

[@TomDooner]

Always gotta check those NOTAMs!

[@benoithudson7235]

Seems like he did? He was expecting a TFR, but thought he could get in before. Presumably it's just yet another case of NOTAMs being hard to properly understand in the volume that pilots have to deal with.

[@TomDooner]

@benoithudson7235 Good point. NOTAMs are nearly inscrutable and don't describe the specifics of TFRs very well at all. As a hobbyist PPL, I just assume some big margins of error in the scheduled time-frames for TFRs, but ideally the system would be easier to understand so I don't have to do so.

[@TylerMak2]

I was there plane spotting Trump and Biden AF1 arrivals on Oct 25th. Trump arrived around noon and left 2 hours later for another rally. Biden arrived around 6:10 PM and his motorcade departed some 20 minutes later. Biden stayed the night in Phoenix and had an event the next morning.

[@iflyg4]

Eh, things happen and both were professional and got the job done. 👍

[@andij605]

wow, everyone very professional here

[@slags83]

Sounds like two professionals to me.

[@spacecoastmed]

Was hoping it was going to be an intercept, they are always fun to listen in on.

[@Suncast45]

We saw how much of a VIP was there! LOL

[@JRadventures96]

VAS, you should make a video on Spirit 951 in Port au Prince Haiti that was took gunfire and was struck, causing them to divert to the Dominican Republic. Incident 11/10/2024

[@soccerguy2433]

i never understand why everyone seems afraid of holding, especially since most (presumably all) published holds are in the FMS database. Vectors for 45 minutes? why? I'd much rather hold, though I don't know what his avionics are like.

[@Chat562]

Pass the responsibility for staying out of the TFR to the controller

[@VASAviation]

Looking at its serial number, N452GM looks a like a really brand new PC-12 so I guess decent avionics but we don't know for sure. 45 minutes holding with conventional navigation equipment can be really demanding.

[@davidburke709]

Professionals being professional.

[@kslavens17]

How does it happen to go from Sky Harbor being: 1) closed for a day; 2) closed for 45 minutes, but only for one runway; 3) being closed just 20 minutes still one runway; and finally 4) seemingly any runway with 7L used in the end?

[@TylerMak2]

I think what happens is since they don't give a schedule out until hours before POTUS arrives, they have to give vague times until AF1 is less than 1-2 hours from arrival.

[@AndrewAbraham83]

This is a new one. I work an an airport and the recent TFRs allowed passenger planes so long as you were squawking whereas in other years total shutdown. Kinda curious why the change

[@MB-hc2xw]

Super nice ATC.

[@colinrasmussen9470]

Strange is that he obviously got an IFR clearance when the flight commenced.

[@Notimp0rtant523]

"Do we really need to send this guy all the way back to Mexico?" "Nah, fuck it, bring him in"

[@dogmandan79]

Gotta be an empty feeling to just be flying around with no where to land.

[@pomerau]

(non pilot wants to know:) Why would ATC offer the choice of possible 45 minutes continuous vectors (that is calling a direction change, right?) rather than letting the pilot follow the standard holding pattern/s so the controller doesn't have to continually monitor and direct him? Is it the Part xx rules where a private flight doesn't need to keep charts or follow a pattern? How dumb am I?

[@480pilot]

And no green meanies waiting. Way to go pilot and control!

[@frisk151]

Professionals!

[@randylaw3368]

In 20 years of flying that's the first nice PHX controller I've ever heard

[@6williamson]

Did the 'ecology' president just cause the release of a ton of CO2?

[@nickmorgan1690]

I came expecting a shit-show..got a pleasant exchange instead.

[@alexzzzzzzzzzz247]

Do any other countries have lockdowns for presidential/diplomatic movements, or is it just the US? And can an airport authority refuse to take the president if they think his accompanying TFR is too much of a pain?

[@Rodgerball]

All's well that ends well.

[@marclattoni1959]

Thanks!

[@VASAviation]

Thanks for your support

[@z33511]

Spoiler alert: nobody gets angry, says anything embarrassing or does anything stupid in this video. In other words, it's a good day for center, approach and Pilotus.

[@Airpaycheck]

I wonder if Customs was ticked that he didnt show up on time.

[@dustyflair]

We just head back to Mexico! I guess MMHO is Mexico City?

[@eggztract7713]

I am so sick of these presidential TFRs. I have training to get done

[@nealbeach4947]

It's not all about you. 😂😂😂

[@BouillaBased]

Hopefully it will all calm down soon, since the election is done. At least until midterms.

[@eggztract7713]

@@nealbeach4947 You're absolutely right. It's about the 3000 aviation students that have been grounded 16 times in the past 2 months in my area

[@ShuRugal]

@@nealbeach4947 Nah, it's about security theatre. General Aviation aircraft are not a threat to PotUS. Full stop. And if you want to cry "but 9-11!", recall that the attacks on 9-11 were conducted by hijacking part 121 scheduled flights, which are exactly the type of aircraft excluded from a PotUS TFR.

[@eggztract7713]

@@ShuRugal never really thought about that. I mean I get it. Truly. There are targets on all of these peoples heads. But when I can't fly because Kamala is throwing a concert, it's incredibly frustrating. We have deadlines to meet. And if we do not meet them, we have to repeat the course and pay out of pocket. Already a tight schedule as it is.

[@MeerkatADV]

Pre-plannning could have been better, but at least he wasn't NORDO.

[@2Phast4Rocket]

Good thing no word salad from both parties

[@kenmaxwell9435]

Vip is gonna be possed he was expecting that delivery

[@Tom_Losh]

(Am I the only one who would like to see some sort of marker on the display for NORTH?)

[@VASAviation]

Probably

[@downundarob]

Does the VIP compensate this pilot for the extra fuel burn?