Pressure Testing a Boiler Core | Model boiler build, part 9!

[@Blondihacks]

Hey everyone! Since a lot of people are saying it, yes, of course the pump mechanism isn’t a source of bleed-down because it’s after the ball valve. The ball valve and hose are part of the pump and that’s what I meant when I said “pump”. Let’s all be good sports here and give each other the benefit of the doubt on such things. 😉 Another common question is why didn’t I clamp the end plates by threading rod all the way through? The reason is that the tubes are soft at this point. They are annealed from the heat and are easily distorted. They would not take the clamping forces needed for a 120psi seal. The tube flanges are much much stronger.

[@tooltimechris7217]

Saw this comment to late. I’ve commented about placing a needle valve

[@quartertwenty484]

I thought the same thing and wondered if I was missing something

[@kiwibob223]

I worked with fire sprinkler systems and often the ball valves "let by" and down to reasonably low pressure. This must be the case or you would be seeing oil somewhere, must be returning to reservoir right?

[@johnclose2323]

I knew what you mean, Quinn. We have been on a European River Cruise and the guide said there are a lot of Canadians on board. She said if you need to go to the toilet can you please say Bathroom or even better Restroom. ??? I said its taken my wife 5 years to teach me to say toilet! One massive bloke (maybe a lumberjack?) used to call it the Powder room! (Oh dear!)

[@LordOfTamarac]

“I think I can say that these tube joints are probably good” The most prepared and knowledgeable people always speak with the least certainty

[@Ferndalien]

@@tomt9543 No, the knowledge comes from painful experience, which resulted from optimistic ignorance.

[@toddniehaus]

You wouldn't want to call it "unsinkable", then lose it on the first voyage.

[@tomt9543]

@@Ferndalien Agreed!

[@Nemozoli]

...whereas stupid people are always very sure of themselves.

[@CapnCrusty]

FYI - it's easy to make custom sized o-rings. On a flat surface, form your stock into a circle of the correct diameter, overpassing to the outside and then slice thru both simultaneously with a single edge razor blade held at a 45º angle. Then cement the two ends together with superglue and you're good to go.

[@MrFastFarmer]

You can also buy o-rings of different thickness on a roll/drum will the correct glue.

[@petem6291]

I always wondered if that really worked ???

[@MrFastFarmer]

@@petem6291 yes. Fantastic.

[@sean11959]

@@petem6291 Yes, it works well. I've used a larger o-ring with the the same cross section, cut and super glued to the diameter needed for a hydraulic fitting. This was on a Gatwick friction welder, ran for years. We ordered the correct o-ring but never installed it.

[@Rustinox]

I know that it's a bit off topic, but these twelve orange Clämps give the assembly a very cool look.

[@craigpuetz7020]

Shouldn't it be Clämpen (or perhaps Clämpchen)?

[@ashhillebrand3189]

Really enjoy your channel, only came across it in the last couple of days from your failed boiler video, and have gone back and rewatched a lot of your videos and have got me motivated to get out into the workshop again. Keep up the great stuff

[@rath6599]

I love seeing Ave's vernacular seeping into every other channel :D

[@zapsnyder]

The Kanye of nut fuckery

[@robertshelton3796]

If you ever want to do this again, leave your plates at 5" and drill 3/8 holes around the outside edge and clamp them together with threaded rod. You could easily get 12 rods around the outside. Also maybe neoprene would make a better gasket? I expect the ends of the tube core aren't perfectly true. Nice work and thanks for sharing!

[@jollygreengiant]

@@Murgoh I was thinking this too. My only worry is that this would place a lot of force on the solder joints themselves, as they now become part of the clamping structure, rather than just clamping the endplates against the new fixtures. I think that silicone pipe may have been better used sliced open to make the gaskets rather than the paper jointing material.

[@_GOD_HAND_]

I've built a similar contraption for pressure casting resin parts. I found the solution to eliminating bleed down was to seal the gaskets with regular old plumber's putty. It eliminated the need for elaborate clamping, as it compensates for the subtle flexure of mating surfaces.

[@kupaN9]

Cheap c clamps are great. For tight uses like this some cheap c clamps with the handles removed and some flats milled in the shaft for a socket can be a life saver.

[@bDwS27]

That's a great idea !

[@Blondihacks]

Oh great idea!

[@bobhudson6659]

Good idea as long as a gorilla does not get on the socket. GP does not stand for general practitioner (doctor). It stands for gorilla paws - ie overtightening.

[@j1952d]

0.02 rod. Love it!

[@pseudoengineere2469]

Showing the ideas that didn’t work really helps us total beginners!

[@Joedy860]

I LOVE - LOVE - LOVE that cutoff saw solution !! - Brilliant -

[@ftubestube8703]

Just a quick note to thank you for your videos. I understand and appreciate how much effort you are putting in to provide us with this content. Thank you, thank you thank you!!!!!!!!!!

[@dannygreene4594]

Thanks, one of the things I really like about your approach to a problem is your way of thinking outside the box, even if if fails we learn something everytime.

[@joealexandersen5599]

"Woodworker precision is fine" is a great expression 😆 I will have to use that!

[@AlexanderBurgers]

Design with calipers, measure with tape measure, cut with axe.

[@Saori5613]

That creativity and wit! Love your rationale 👍

[@lawrencedriver623]

Hi Quinn, hope you are well. I loved this video, only remark I can add is, the end gaskets I would have used rubber as in an old Lorry innertube, more robust will fill any micro gaps and not so lightly cut by the copper, what a brilliant idea you had for testing those tube joints. Love you and your humour. Take care and be safe. X

[@actinaria1]

Thanks to you showing your experience I attempted one. Silver solder was a pain as well but it held 200 psi last night 😊. Thanks for all you do and show

[@kimber1958]

That boiler core is a work of art

[@trollforge]

No, it's a work of Quinn... ;)

[@JDnBeastlet]

Awesome video Quinn!

[@petergoodall6258]

Cool. I used to do industrial boiler-cleaning in my school holidays we pressure-tested 80 year old industrial boilers. Dad said be careful - steel never forgets - a warning to not over-test.

[@StripeyType]

Quinn knows this, bot for the rest of you who don't, ME thread series exist not just to adequately fasten parts, but to have "near scale" appearance. So 5/16"-32 "looks scale" because of the high thread count. Like Egyptian cotton sheets, or something. (Also OMG the umlauts. I am now dead)

[@machooke4846]

Lol, seems like a normal Friday night to me! Love your sense of humor, keep the videos coming!

[@rkeround2itindustries892]

With the hose isolated (closing the valve), the part that is bleeding down should be after the shutoff valve. With all the fittings tight, I would look at either the valve (internal sealing of the petcock), the hose (failure of the rubber in the hose, in my book the most likely culprit), or possibly the gauge leaking internally.

[@Blondihacks]

I’m pretty sure it’s the cheap hose that came with that pump. It’s a terrible thing.

[@Ioughtaknowbetter]

@@Blondihacks if you're ever looking to replace it I highly recommend Parker 919. For low pressure stuff (1000-3000 psi) it's really very nice. I like it because it is chemically inert and I have used it for everything from high pressure machine tool coolant to brake lines. And you don't have to have a crimp connector you can actually get field assemblable fittings. It's a poly tube with a stainless overbraid and the -4 size almost looks like scale model hose.

[@chrisj4570g]

Clämps for the win. 🤘

[@paulthomas3782]

Congratulations on a successful boiler test.

[@davidumstadt5340]

its not just the gasket. 4 in dia = 12.5 square inches. x 60 psi = 754 pounds. the end plates are thin and can flex as well as the clamps. A couple thousanths will exceed the gasket compression. Thanks for the interesting project.

[@Blondihacks]

Yah, I figured they probably were. It’s a lot to ask of aluminum

[@greeceuranusputin]

That force was also applied to the tubes and joints under test!

[@rhadden8976]

I have learned a lot by watching you all the while being entertained. I think if I would have had someone like you as an educator maybe I would have went into engineering instead of electronics/computer science. You are amazing.... thank you

[@_--_--_]

Nice trick to make custom circular gaskets is to glue a sheet of rubber onto faced round stock and clamping an exacto knife in the toolholder, with that simply cut out the shape you need.

[@ronaldcompton4607]

MORE LOVE, see you on the next one. Love your videos Toad

[@BaschyGoode]

For gaskets you might want to get a sheet of Klingersil 4400 , that material is resistant to water, steam, oil and many other liquids and even gases. It is easy to cut with knives, scissors and you can use holepunches.

[@andrewfanner2245]

That was very cleverly done. Add+1 Cunning to your Character Sheet.

[@Blondihacks]

Luckily I made my saving throw versus explosions

[@Paul_Lane]

Great video and your explanations on your videos is very helpful.

[@HeidiLandRover]

Excellent as always!

[@robinjon2008]

Hi, what you observe is maybe a isothermic effect. When you increase pressure the temperature will also increase, this temperature will bleed out of the system overtime, this will give you a drop in pressure. Used to work with calibration of pressure sensors, and we always needed to wait a while after increasing pressure before taking measurements.

[@joevostoch8768]

Has anyone every tried baking the tube sheets and/or boiler solder joints in a kiln? I have no experience with kilns but I understand that they can hold high temperatures accurately for a good while. I have now watched all of your youtube videos so I will have to go to your blog to watch more content during the week. Keep up the good work.

[@robertshelton3796]

10:53 I did a rimshot on my keyboard tray just as you played one. nice.

[@henrikstenlund5385]

I think the slow loss of pressure in the pump test may be caused by slow elastic flex of the tubing and other parts. I would guess that to stabilize at some point. Water can not escape just like that without leaking. Also, some plastics are known to absorb water a little, like 1% of weight in the skin depth.

[@noelhenderson700]

Internal leaks in a pump would tend to flow back to the reservoir and not necessarily show up anywhere externally on the pump. That said, any small amount of water loss, no matter why will effect the pressure.

[@henrikstenlund5385]

@@noelhenderson700 To be precise, what I meant was that since the pump is isolated with the valve from the SUT, the SUT pressure was dropping. The reasons for that are what I mentioned plus possible leaks. In this particular case also the paper gasket was dry when installed containing substantial amounts of air and is probably the main culprit. The gasket might be wet completely for a few days before put into place. Water is nearly incompressible and so are all metal parts. However, the parts suffer from dimensional changes when pressure rises and this will lower the pressure from the initial reading. Due to incompressibility, extremely small volume changes affect the pressure after closing the valve. One more thing, tap water usually contains lots of gases too affecting this. Using vacuum for removing gases from the system before letting water in and increasing the pressure might be a good idea.

[@TandaMadison]

I was thinking the same thing, as I've been designing an adhesive dispense system and I think the ever so slight expansion of the adhesive container is something I'll have to account for.

[@improprietary1]

Perfect timing, i just sat down with a fresh calzone and a new episode is up!

[@bDwS27]

Your videos tend to have some really interesting comments! Great tips from you and your community!

[@robertyoung5298]

Yep, perfectly normal. For anytime! 😎

[@oldhick9047]

Ok Quinn, I was in a crummy mood when I started this video, your voice calms me. The added benefit was that the duck made me actually lol. Thanks !

[@Blondihacks]

🦆 Swarfy The Duck can cheer anybody up.

[@oldhick9047]

@@Blondihacks Thanks, it worked

[@dmenke]

Pressure testing on a Friday night? Slow down, rock star!

[@tooltimechris7217]

Nice results! I can recomend to exchange the ball valve for a needle valve on the pump. Maybe together with a checkvalve in the circuit. This will hold the pressure much better. This is how most hydraulic handpumps work for calibrationg gauges and pressure sensors.

[@paulmorrey733]

Thanks Quinn

[@sambrose1]

The oh!? ring probably wouldn't have worked but they make o-ring splice kits so never worry about not being able to find the right size(length/circumference) you can cut and glue them and it works just fine. You're videos are an inspiration keep up the good work! One more little tidbit, a drafting compass and an exacto knife in the pencil holder makes the prettiest round paper gaskets ever.

[@philipallard8026]

Very clever stuff you do.

[@bulletproofpepper2]

Thanks for sharing!

[@johnoler357]

A can of flex seal in a pour form can be used in a mold to create any rubber design. Just a thought it may be another angle for you to attack some of your problems.

[@LaddGardner4]

"Pale fist shake of frustration." "D'oh!" :)

[@Ian1957a]

Great videos. At the start of this when you were leak testing the pressure tester you were saying it was leaking slightly. Something I have come across when using flexible hoses is that they can expand a little which will cause a pressure drop. You can prove this by dropping the pressure a bit and may see the pressure rise again as the hose relaxes again. I found this while working calibrating pressure transducers.

[@raymitchell9736]

Yes, it is a perfectly normal thing to do on a Friday night... what else would anyone be doing at that time? Personally, I wouldn't know because I'm doing my hobbies on Friday nights too (only I don't post on YT, best not to advertise)... LOL 🤣😂

[@1AMERICANWORKER]

The oddball threads that model makers use have their origins from the 1920's when Singer sewing machines used these non-standard threads on their products to monopolize and inflate parts prices. A Singer 1/4- 40 screw cost 8 times more than a 1/4-28 SAE from the hardware store. In the 1930s Singer was charged under the new anti-trust laws and forced to use standard threads. I was a Westinghouse apprentice in the early 1970's and would sometimes make parts to fit on parts that were sub-contracted to Singer in the late 20's, so we had to be able to make these threads. I remember one job where I had to replenish our stock of 0-88 screws. I was on a tool room turret lathe for weeks making 2,000 piece runs of every length, from 3/16 to 1 1/2. Model makers are not the only group to use these threads. Gun smiths also use them. I am a competition long range shooter and I modify and build my own rifles, ammo, and even my own reloading presses.

[@tgfcujhb7583]

The silicone hose would make some good gasket 👍👍

[@FredMiller]

Nicely done Quinn. I am thinking that if your hydrostatic test unit can't hold pressure but does not leak any water the problem may be the shut off ball valve leaking pressure back into the main unit. I have had a number of lesser quality ball valves fail in this manner. Replacing it with a high quality ball valve solves the problem. Keep up the great work... Fred

[@lumotroph]

When these videos come up on recommended I feel like I don't even really have a choice... I'm watching!

[@TandaMadison]

Clämps hee hee. 60? Thought they would have peaked in the 80s? I was laughing by the end of the intro having just spent a nerdy Friday night. Great work as always.

[@stevensmart8868]

Paper gasket is used between to wide flat flanges then it would work. Maybe use some soft silicone sheet instead in your setup , this would let the thin edge of the copper bite into the silicone to seal slot better than the paper gasket. Keep up good work.

[@trollforge]

My 1st thought for gaskets (even before paper (which I do have a box of in my shop)) was backhoe inner tube (which is 3x thicker than automotive)... ;)

[@Raccoonsareawesome]

A solution that might work is to get some industrial rubber "mat" (Not sure about the correct word for this since I'm not a native English speaker) but they are available with flat surface in different thickness. A relatively thin one cut into a circle and you will even out the pressure more from the clamps.

[@carlwilson1772]

I would be tempted to rerun that test using something like 6mm thick rubber sheet instead of the gasket paper. Enjoyed that very much, particularly the method for holding large stock in the bandsaw.

[@dongreer4538]

Concur, although a 2 - 3 mm rubber gasket will suffice.

[@zaphhood4745]

As a finn I appriciate the proper use of 'Ä' in 'Clämps'

[@thorstenoerts]

Anodize those thin wide aluminium chips and you've got some lovely party decor 🙃

[@manythingslefttobuild]

Core testing, I wonder if we are going to get a clip from Chernobyl? That's a cool fixturing trick for the bandsaw, thank you for sharing. Have you considered bolting an adjustable stop bar vertically near the on/off switch to catch the head of the bandsaw to keep it from cutting threw the bolt? Or you could take one or both jaw inserts off the vise to gain a little bit of capacity. Great video, looking forward to part 10.

[@pressokaytocancel]

I hit like before Swarfy showed up... How do I double like?

[@metalworksmachineshop]

on your pump , the yellow handle valve... take the handle off and tighten the packing. that could be your leak back to the tank.

[@calvinsmith9824]

How many clamps does a person need for project? For me the answer always seems to be more than I have available!

[@ADBBuild]

Always one more.

[@talidor4383]

you may have been able to seal against the flat inside edge of the top and bottom on the outside of the fire tubes but inside the wall, dish out the blocking plates so that there is a ring on the outside edge and using a thicker gasket material with the 6 clamps on each side

[@KevinWoodsWorkshop]

When I saw the thumb nail I thought you’d made a nuclear reactor which wouldn’t have surprised me with your physics knowledge. Looks like you’re going to have a cool boiler when finished.

[@stylianos4570]

Try rubber gaskets like water heaters :-) Thanks for your sharing videos!!!

[@Orxenhorf]

It would be a whole lot of machining, but you could make a seal around the end plates with two L shapes. One plate similar to what you have with the appropriate holes but with a ridge that extends up to the end plate face on the inside of the rim and goes outside far enough for bolt holes. And the second matching to those bolt holes, but going down the outside and under the bottom. Bolting them together would squeeze a gasket against the flat of the end plate.

[@Blondihacks]

Yah, that was the design I originally thought of, in fact! But it was going to be too much work for this, I figured.

[@emmajacobs5575]

Those aluminium end plates might hold a gasket seal better at low clamping forces if they weren't perfectly smooth - a flange face will normally have machined concentric (or sometimes spiral 'phonographic') grooves that 'dig into' the gasket.

[@andrewjames7616]

Thankyou👍

[@mitchellvanderlei4392]

I'd move the gauge And valve past the hose and isolate after the hose before the gauge

[@soundmaster1966]

3:40 so you need to built a turbo charged car engine next. I would absolutely like to see this then. 👍😎

[@TheFarCobra]

This would have been handy for me earlier today .... if I had an angle plate to put in my bandsaw (guess I am ordering one from KAR or Amazon) ... though I did have a thought that I would probably thread the remanent piece and using a cap screw instead of running a piece of ready rod all the way through.

[@nocturnhabeo]

10:50 I died.

[@seabreezecoffeeroasters7994]

Not sure if I am seeing correctly but you closed the ball valve then looked at the bleed off of pressure on the gauge on the hose side of it? If so then likely your ball valve is leaking for a start before you get back to the pump seals and clearances. You will only need a few drops of water to drop the pressure too (assuming you have no air in the system).

[@v8Mercury]

Maybe a bolt hole pattern around the outside of those plates. Then threaded rod instead of clamps. A bonus is you wouldn't have had to turn that material down so much.

[@Blondihacks]

I updated the pinned comment with the explanation why I clamped the way I did. 🙂

[@PorchPotatoMike]

That is ideal kind of Friday night. (Yes, I’m not normal.)

[@Todestelzer]

I wonder if you could use a coil magnet, with a timer. It would stop the carriage of the lathe for, let’s say 0.1 seconds every second, to break the chips?

[@leifvejby8023]

Right? Right!

[@GilgaFrank]

Just started watching please don't saw it in half please don't saw it in half please don't saw it in half please don't saw it in half

[@kiwibigt6684]

Could you have placed an "O" ring between the boiler plate and the silicone hose? Quite amazing what can be achieved with a couple of layers of old inner tube rubber rings. Pretty low tech but if it works, it works!!!

[@IstasPumaNevada]

Could fit more clamps in if you mixed the sizes, say, 3" and 4" clamps. Apply the smaller clamps like you did, then the turny-bit on the slightly larger clamps should clear the turny-bits on the smaller clamps. If the size difference is enough anyway.

[@Mazakuz]

would'nt a through bolt work for clamping since your tubes don't twist nor turn in the core?

[@Dlgeis]

I think it would be safe to use compressed air for this test. Maybe 20 psi and the volume inside is relatively small. Relatively low psi air would indicate an obvious leak. Ultimately the final hydrostatic obviously will prove the unit.

[@SteveDohertyCA]

Silicone baking sheets make decent gaskets.

[@bbjunkie]

11:40 Model engineers do indeed use a whole lot of odd threads, even here in the UK! Most modern designs still use BA threads, even those designed by the younger generation. For someone born in mid 70's between metric and imperial, even I find this weird! Why 😂

[@douglasbollinger8678]

It's about using an appropriately sized fastener for the scale of the model and the smaller BA fasteners look better on a lot of engines, especially if the kit was designed with them in mind.

[@bbjunkie]

​@@douglasbollinger8678 I had thought that metric would've been an alternative, M2.5 M3 M3.5 etc but just noticed .5mm increments seems to stop at M4 so yes, I understand now!

[@samec88]

BA fasteners also have more scale looking heads than metric which look a lot thicker

[@VintageTechFan]

If you really want to earn some hate, use metric, but in JIS before 1967. They usually used a pitch just a hair above the european one. Things like M3*0.6 (instead of 0.5), M4*0.75 (instead of 0.7), M5*0.9 (instead of 0.8) ...

[@dragon411320]

my first gut reaction/guess would be not just the pump bleeding down, but that valve, might as well start with the cheapest and easiest and most practical thing first.

[@humanspirit3432]

I like it! Yes! : D

[@SuperSpecialty]

I can believe it, because we did that for submarine stuff… only up to 20,000 psi !

[@alwaysbearded1]

Hose was my first thought too. Self amalgamating silicone tape to enlarge the core to fit the tube? Seems like you got it though. Good luck on the next exciting step.

[@evancrawford887]

Just thinking out loud by why not use the turbo hose as the gasket? Cut down the wall and lay it flat, you should be able to compress it more with the clamps and then it can take up the flex as the pressure builds.

[@mtabernig]

You have the main elements to use an "O" ring get an o ring close Do not need to be exact they can stretch a little or compress a little Then cut s grove on the aluminum plate the with of the o ring a bit deeper than the o ring cross section, install the clamps and there we go. Also you can use some rubber instead of a paper gasket. Need to make sure the top of the end plates are perfectly smooth

[@Blondihacks]

The stud holes eliminated that plan, as I explained.

[@natesteiner5460]

I spy with my little eye a PM Research box by your drill press. Future project?

[@Blondihacks]

🤫

[@neillawson4493]

Apparently, at least in England, in steam engine terminology, they're not gaskets but "joints". Also, would some kind of "gasket goo" (even grease) have helped with sealing the small imperfections in the edge of the copper and paper?

[@stevejeffryes5086]

You might have some luck by lapping the test plates against the tube sheet flanges. This can create a near perfect fit of the flange to the test plate. With an almost perfect fit established between the test plate and the tube sheet flange, you might achieve a successful seal using only a liquid gasket material (Permatex). But, this suggestion is coming from a guy who sketches things up but almost never builds anything.

[@Ferndalien]

Definitely one possibility. Another possibility is that at even "only" 60 psi, the tube sheet flanges deflected just enough to allow water to leak. Or maybe both contributed to the leak.

[@peltona]

Impressive depth of cut on small lathe. I also have a small lathe, what carbide insert and holder were you using?

[@Jeremy-iv9bc]

It's gotta be the ball valve that's letting the pressure out if there's no external leaks.

[@steveallen8987]

The car hose looked like a great idea, pity about the size, have you considered wrapping some plumbers tape round the edges of the end caps to increase the diameter so that the clamps and hose will fit. Steve