Preventing premature collapse of twin and earth cables with D-LINE GRIP CLIPS

[@johnschroeder3072]

If you install the cable clip up the other way with the nail at the bottom the likelihood of the cable falling will reduce as the metal nail will still be there to support it.

[@HandyKindaGuyUK]

I'm glad someone said it

[@Marcel_Germann]

That's the way we do it here in Germany...

[@nickfrost9064]

How it’s supposed to be done

[@GSHElectrical]

So are we relying on the cable resting on the metal nail to prevent entanglement... surely structural movement, falling debris, spraying water etc will cause the cable to move away from the nail it’s now allegedly resting on... let’s save lives and use metal clips. Thanks

[@effervescence5664]

@@GSHElectrical The way I was taught 20 years ago is nail below to aid in support if the plastic clip ever gives up due to any cause. It was and is still considered good practice in most places across the world. That said yes metal clips are great but most people are installing every other clip or every 3 clips depending on the span as metal, so having the nail below the cable in those cases still helps. Obviously you guys were taught the same because outside of the lighter test all those clips were installed with the nail below on the joists.

[@liamlyman5596]

1 or 2 cables on a run I make every third or forth clip metal but for more cables on a run can't beat some all purpose band loops.

[@HandyKindaGuyUK]

I can't find it now Gary, but there's a comment here somewhere talking about banding, it works brilliantly, looks lovely and neat 😁

[@davidclark3603]

Absolutely heaven sent regulations. Fresh air. At last the regs are on our side. I'm sick of new regulations just being a load of re hashed rhetoric! What a brilliant video. I really enjoyed it!

[@efixx]

Thanks David 🦾

[@DIMTips]

I wonder if clips should be placed with the nail closet to the floor. This might add additional time level of protection. Will keep this in mind.

[@DIMTips]

Also great video again

[@crumps84]

As with the age old arguement with plastic plugs holding screws in premature collapsing, what if you need to use those plastic nail plugs that you can get? Does that compromise the security of the fixing?

[@jsnlambo7312]

Were taking a total uturn on metal CUs and Clips etc. These are all old methods being revamped. IET keep changing regs too much!

[@paulbritton187]

Thermoplastic CUs was never a good idea, I don't know who was in charge at the IET at the time, but they should have been slapped for allowing them in the first place 😁

[@vw_beachbuggybrookster]

Great video , would like to see clips for 10mm 6242Y or 6242B too 👍

[@_______DR_______]

I often fix first using the dewalt 18v cable stapler, and if I have a load of Cat 6 or coax cables etc I use nylon coated strap band. Very little of the work I do is surface. So all along I've been inadvertently exceeding the requirements of this reg, nice. I was quite proud of myself for the other day for inventing the fire rated SWA cleat, by making some P clips with the strap band and hiding them under normal cleats 😂

[@johnwaby4321]

I have been using those for a while now .. I also use metal all round band 👍👍.and metal clips inside the plastic trunking

[@Ste2023]

Got a link to those round metal cable clips

[@oyleyhands1332]

Does this regulation apply to all cables, such at BT, Cat5/6 , RG59BU,URM70, or any other form of data, elv, comms cable etc ? I ask as there does not appear to be specific 'metal' clips for these cables.

[@Rob_Turner_UK]

Yes and I feel your pain about suitable clips. We use the foldable clips in trunking, there are also clips for trunking ( these look like paper clips). I have seen fire alarm clips used for larger cat6A but does look a bit odd being red. I also think telecommunications cable is one of the most likely culprits due to quantity of cable.

[@effervescence5664]

Your best bet is P clips (think FP200 clips) you can get them in black/red/white and other colours. That's what I've generally been using.

[@edc1569]

Be careful what you use with CAT6 installations as it can affect the performance of the cable, there are CAT6(a) specific stapes you could use.

[@oyleyhands1332]

@@edc1569 I picked up the Klein staple gun last week and they claim two sizes of insulated staples for Cat5/6 cables

[@seandempsey9396]

About sodding time, Just a small point in the video the plastic clips are about two ft apart I was tought that the clips should be a minimum of six inches apart for service mounted cables, these new metal clips can we use them at a much greater spaceing and use the plastic type in between? So if you have a cable run say from one end of your garage to the other end say twelve feet put a metal clip at each end and one in the middle then plastic clips even spaced in between?. Those metal clips should have come in years ago. Fantastic video Gary and Gordon as always. Thank you were can I get the metal clips from? Love this video ♥️ and another good use for make them to hold PVC/ALUMINIUM CAPING IN Place, there's nothing worst than when you try and bang those pesky little nails into breeze block and it pings of and hits you in the face

[@chrisstorr5669]

I find the metal clips very expensive so for a alternative I use steel all round band, can cut to length for any size cable, use it for most of our rewires now

[@UberAlphaSirus]

Reinventing the wheel. If anything, it's the price of plastic is more than metal nowadays. Old gaffs had metal straps and lead straps outside. TBH, who has ever liked pvc cable clips? There only ever good on wood, everything else useless. They smash up brickwork, rarely hold on and the hammer smashes up your fingers. Nice to see them come backwith something usefull.

[@crumps84]

Does a ceiling grid count towards premature collapse? It's made of metal and fastened with metal so surely any cables that might be on the grid would be ok?

[@efixx]

The ceiling grid isn’t classed as a support

[@claas6504]

I always leave plenty of metal clips above areas where people walk in buildings, such as in corridors, above doorways/windows. But not on the edges of walls as there is no risk of entanglement.

[@fje1948]

Live saver - Thank You!

[@peterpryor17]

Does anyone know what version of BS7671 that removed the clipping table for spacing supports to cables? Thanks.

[@andrewbarton9358]

What about fire rated fixing into plasterboard where nail on clips wont get a good hold as often the nail isn’t long enough to hit the stud work behind the plasterboard?

[@UberAlphaSirus]

That's easy. You where doing it wrong in the first place.

[@edc1569]

well in your case you need to worry about premature collapse at all times, not just during a fire.

[@shamyyy1]

Would you also use metal fixings on low level cable eg. Above skirting in mini trunking? I’ve seen a lot of people not doing it so wanted clarification.

[@efixx]

Fire fighters often “feel” their way around the room using the walls - so it’s equally important to think about skirting and dado trunking.

[@shamyyy1]

@@efixx thanks for the swift response! Keep up the good work 😀

[@tomfoolery5665]

I'm a new york city firefighter there's nothing like getting tangle up in wire in a dangerous working job especially when your totally blinded out no visibility

[@obd6HsN]

Sounds really dangerous. How does the electrical code deal with this in NY?

[@ukclimber]

Where can you purchase these as they aren't on d'lines website or come up on google searches?

[@nevilletucker4697]

Hi Guys ,regularly watch your videos and show them at our Toolbox talks ,can you clarify that fire resistant fixings only apply to new installations from 2019 onwards ,the reason for my asking is we look after approx 15000 rented properties for a housing association ,each time we do an EICR this comes up as a "Do we Need to upgrade or not" ,the same applies to our communal areas. Would you give a Code C2 ,C3 etc if the installation is not compliant in this respect ? Many websites state that the regulation is NOT retrospective ,any opinions would be much appreciated

[@xxwookey]

All wiring regs are not retrospective. But the thing with this is that arguably we should never have stopped using metal clips in the first place. If there is a fire in one of those properties and cables fall down the firefighters would really like you to have put in a few metal clips. So no it's not required by law, but it is a good idea to just add some metal clips.

[@Stu2be2]

Clipping upside down of course it’s going to fall and at what stage do you think the cores will touch and trip the rcd if it’s on one worse case

[@edc1569]

the RCD tripping is totally irrelevant to the cable being a tangle hazard.

[@_Miner]

There should be a link to this regulation with health and safety at work or part of the fire risk assessment to prevent data and comms installers just throwing data cables here there and everywhere without consideration.

[@edc1569]

yeah, all held up with a few cable ties sometimes...

[@oyleyhands1332]

Another question....How about when one uses flexible conduit in abundance (not that we know anyone who does that) does that regulatin still apply ? I notice that there are products to use with platic trunking.

[@amatchmadeindevon2005]

Could always use galv conduit saddles without the base, two screws, lovely jubbly

[@oyleyhands1332]

@@amatchmadeindevon2005 washers over those keyhole slots ?

[@amatchmadeindevon2005]

@@oyleyhands1332 depends on the size of the screw head you use

[@effervescence5664]

Metal conduit clips will fit over flexi conduit, come in white/black and also you could just use the galv ones and paint them to suit. Or all round band is another option.

[@NickTwigg]

Gents, none of the links for the hub are working‼️

[@efixx]

Thanks for pointing this out we are investigating the problem.

[@scabthecat]

Plastic clips are allowed above pink board ceiling? Plastic clips are allowed above grey board ceiling?

[@UberAlphaSirus]

All plasterboard ceilings.

[@edc1569]

yup they're fine behind the ceiling

[@DerekHundik]

plus in the fire those metal clips will cause short of N and E and RCD will pop out .

[@robertburrows6612]

If the building is on fire , the last thing on my mind would be short circuits and RCD's tripping

[@DerekHundik]

@@robertburrows6612 you dont understand what i mean. The circuit wont be live .Thats anothr advantage of those metal fixings.

[@Abid.Z77]

Isnt that nail meant to be at the bottom and nott the top as it supports the cable and it's a secure fixture

[@GSHElectrical]

So are we relying on the cable resting on the metal nail to prevent entanglement... surely structural movement, falling debris, spraying water etc will cause the cable to move away from the nail it’s now allegedly resting on... let’s save lives and use metal clips. Thanks

[@sergiofernandez3725]

These clips are quite expensive. Could use all round banding with a stainless steel screw. Like the following from Screwfix CED GALVANISED ALL ROUND BAND 12MM X 10M (18298)

[@Marcel_Germann]

The stability of the plastic clips would also be increased if the nail is below the cable instead of above the cable. Then it wouldn't collapse so fast in case of a fire because the nail would still give a bit of support. I'd like to see how big the difference actually is between these two methods.... www.weinmann-schanz.de/xs_db/xs_bilder/94_WG_Bilder/9400000-9403999/www/750/9400951_detail_1.jpg And here we got regs for the distances between the clips, and also the distance between the clip and an accessory like a switch or a junction box: www.textilkabel-shop.de/mediafiles/Bilder/kabelschellen.jpg

[@GSHElectrical]

So are we relying on the cable resting on the metal nail to prevent entanglement... surely structural movement, falling debris, spraying water etc will cause the cable to move away from the nail it’s now allegedly resting on... let’s save lives and use metal clips. Good comment... use metal clips for me 🦾👍

[@Marcel_Germann]

@@GSHElectrical Actually we're relying on training of the fire brigade. They send in several teams, one is going into the cellar and they remove the fuses in the service entry. Even the smallest fire brigade units are getting trained by electricians to pull the NH fuses the right way: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJLGe4t9qtN-f6c Concept is different, but the result is the same.

[@johnburns4017]

@@Marcel_Germann Access the main fuse is not always available in afire. Also, what about people in the fire before the firemen turn up?

[@Marcel_Germann]

@@johnburns4017 They pull them on the street, would be the next step. In every street are those here: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/SichVert.JPG They'll have to avoid burning areas. When there's a fire in that area, already burning so hot that the cable clips will fail, you can't go through there without protective gear. And also there's so much smoke, they wouldn't reach the other end of the room. A few breaths and they would become unconcious. The fire brigade has protective clothing made of Nomex and protective respirators, which the ordinary people don't have. If the exit is cut off by the fire, get as far away from the fire as possible. Even if it means going upstairs. And there get to the windows and draw attention so the fire brigade notices you and rescues you from there.

[@sparx2391]

Nail always goes at the bottom of the cable

[@Kaizer10155]

Can you test the dewalt staple cable clips

[@efixx]

Great idea 👍

[@Kaizer10155]

@@efixx I’ve bought one and it’s worked amazing, and I’m very religious with my metal clips they are technically metal so I’m very curious.

[@knightstemplar8379]

I was taught to have the nail at the bottom to assist with premature collapse.

[@oyleyhands1332]

Or the Milwaukee insulated staples with the metal staple of course

[@oyleyhands1332]

@@knightstemplar8379 As an apprentice many, many years ago I got a severe bollocking for installing cable clips with the pin/screw above the cable, so much so I had to spend a few hours after my day should have finished refixing a whole run of very neatly clipped pyro around a bank vault and a boiler room that was uncomfortably hot in there to start with..plus it was filthy. I will not forget that Sparky, best one I ever worked with albeit no other apprentice never wanted to work with him, he was a perfectionist. On a Friday lunchtime after being paid cash in theose little brown pay packets, he made me go to a tool shop and buy at least one tool every week until I had a comprehensive tool kit. I still buy more tools than I need today...on Friday ! Plus...a big thanks for my Luceco head torch, it arrived yesterday and so impressed I am about to order another one right now ! always have two hed torches in each tool bag. And Pyro had copper metal clips to start with !!! we had metal strap clips well before plastic clips (Hiatt/Tower etc) to begin with. I am not suggesting for one minute that current metal clips should not be used ongoing. PS...I lied, I just oredered three more Luceco head torches, I have a number of tool bags, poches, totes.. 😁😁😁

[@ColinRichardson]

Do you guys, (and commenters too), have thoughts on nail 'above' or 'below' the cable? Is it just a case of "where you can get the hammer" or any pros/cons to either scenario to consider?

[@GSHElectrical]

So are we relying on the cable resting on the metal nail to prevent entanglement... surely structural movement, falling debris, spraying water etc will cause the cable to move away from the nail it’s now allegedly resting on... let’s save lives and use metal clips. Thanks

[@efixx]

Nail at the bottom Colin but see GSH comment. Massive thanks for your input 👍

[@davidclark3603]

It's been the nail at the top of the fixing for over 40 years I've been in the trade, but, I think that has to change now?! Does anybody else agree?

[@ColinRichardson]

@@GSHElectrical .... yeah.. I was asking about the nail on the metal clips... Not just a random nail.

[@clairesparks9900]

@@GSHElectrical Jumped the gun with that dicky comment 🤣😂

[@Swwils]

Can't buy then anywhere?

[@Ste2023]

Smith's Toy shop Retail industry park Nearby Yorkshirestan

[@applanateearth586]

Let's go back to copper piping so fireman don't get wet if plastic water pipe melts! Lol

[@richardbushnell1065]

i think you should of use a poor quality brand of cable, not a good Doncaster cable

[@efixx]

Good point but we only have great cable in the studio 🔥

[@richardbushnell1065]

@@efixx i like to here that as that's the cable that i use.

[@VillainGang.]

🤔 Shall be

[@Stu2be2]

And in the event of a fire the first thing the fire men do is kill all the power and gas to the property if possible

[@edc1569]

not relevant?

[@acelectricalsecurity]

I am waiting for the idiot to say they need earthing, like I see with metal capping😂😂 With regards to above a plaster board ceiling, that ceiling is not designed to take gallons of water being sprayed on to it, so if it does come down because of that you can't say it's premature collapse.

[@MMG_MoonManGuitar]

Not sure if it's really necessary. If there's a fire, there's a fire. No ones worried about clips melting causing tangling cables. If you need to save anyone from a burning building, you will literally walk through fire. No tangling wire will stop you. Just my thoughts on the matter.

[@efixx]

It’s a big deal fire fighters die because of cable entanglement - www.fireengineering.com/firefighting/mayday-monday-entanglement-hazards/#gref

[@Atsaki13]

MMG. Collapsed cabling basically turns into a wire fence. If you're a fire fighter with mask, breathing apparatus in a burning building full of smoke you wouldn't stand a chance when you get caught up in that. You might think you'd be able to snap and force your way through cabling, maybe one or two you would. But not a massive bundle of them. You're not going to break through an armoured cable either.

[@MMG_MoonManGuitar]

@@Atsaki13 thanks mate. Makes more sense know.

[@MMG_MoonManGuitar]

@@efixx thanks efixx for sharing the knowledge. Pardon my ignorance.

[@edc1569]

you'd be surprised how hot ceiling areas (where perhaps these plastic clips are) can get while down at floor level you still have a potential escape route. I work on highway and railway projects and all the light fixtures/PA/CCTV etc are designed so they don't melt onto people escaping below.