To Anneal Brass or Not!

Should you? ...and if you should, when? In this video you'll see what happens if you do or if you don't!
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[@agscustomparts]

quite informative! thank you for in depth analysis!

[@travisprice3368]

So informative and in depth. Thanks kindly for putting in the hard work !

[@CplSkiUSMC]

My order of operations is... de-prime, wet tumble, anneal, size, neck expand, chamfer/deburr/neck brush, and of course prime, charge, seat. You might note that trim is not typically part of that but I want that neck long enough to minimize the carbon ring build-up so I only trim when the brass reaches max length and then I only trim a couple thousandths. I really should go in and clean the ring then chamber some cases at various lengths and use my bore scope to find out exactly what it should be.

[@JeffinTD]

He has another video where he demonstrates that annealing after tumbling resulted in much higher and much more erratic seating forces as opposed to annealing first- presumably caused by an oxide layer or other change to the surface caused by annealing temperatures. I don’t have an amp press but I’m gonna try annealing before tumbling and see what happens to group size.

[@CplSkiUSMC]

@@JeffinTD I've done it both ways, before and after, and I can't say I've noticed a difference. But I don't have an AMP press either. I use graphite when I mandrel neck expand and then neck brush after to leave a thin, fairly uniform graphite film in the case neck. It seems to help with consistency but I can't support that with quantitative evidence. It might just be my imagination but I'll run with it for now.

[@JeffinTD]

@@CplSkiUSMC He actually showed trying to improve brass annealed after cleaning that a brass brush made things worse but a nylon brush helped. Might be one of those things where you’d only see improvement if everything else was capable of .3 moa. Anyhoo I’ve got some brass I’ve washed, annealed, sized, trimmed and deburred, and polished. Figured I’d run a charge ladder and see what I get for groups and SD.

[@CplSkiUSMC]

@@JeffinTD Yeah, I saw that one on the phosphor bronze brushes. I switched to nylon brushes for the case mouth and that did seem to have a good effect on seating consistency in as much as I could feel. I like the Redding Competition Seating Dies and the feel during seating is better because of the alignment they provide. Sometimes it's little stuff like that which makes a difference far greater than anticipated.That's what makes reloading so interesting.

[@JeffinTD]

@@CplSkiUSMC Yeah. I do find it fun. I’m also running a Redding type S die set and I really like the feel of the seater. I mostly cast and load for handguns on a progressive, or 556 nato equivalent, hunting level rifle stuff. This is my first time fiddling with bushing dies, dialing in shoulder bump, looking at velocity SD and all that.

[@chrisz6918]

Great Video Greg, nicely done. Reminds me of a debate on FB a few days ago on a German reloading group. As i expected, people got mad over it, calling it BS, you don´t need to do it, i´ve never it and my groups are fine and all that other crap. I got lucky a while ago and got a very mildly used AMP Mk 1 with the Aztech Upgrade and i like this machine. Yes, it still was a bunch of money, but i did not regret it after all.

[@hewlett260]

Gotta say, my primer pockets usually give out before I worry about splitting necks. Never had a split neck on any of my cartridges but have had times where primers were seated and then came right back out and fell on the bench. I am sure there is a benefit to annealing but have yet to really see it show on the target.

[@ChadKelly7]

Great info, Greg. I'm enjoying learning from you. I have your CPS and I just recently got an AMP to learn as I get into the longer range stuff. Your videos are always informative and we all appreciate the time you take to make these. Now to try and save up for the eventual Prometheus 🤣. Gonna be a while for that one I think, but I'll get there!! Have a great week.

[@jeffreyrovinsky7421]

Thank you for the metrics using the AMP Press.

[@jetman1035]

I appreciate the amount of time and effort you put into this. You don't just knock out a video. That's exactly why I became a member. Great job!

[@primalrights]

I appreciate that!

[@firee2]

Do you have any comments in regards to gas guns? As you know most ejected cases have case mouth damage that sizing corrects. Would you neck size, then anneal, then full lenght size? Or just anneal the case with a deformed neck first? Thank you

[@3-angelssanctuaryandlearni468]

Hi Greg, thanks for the in-depth tutorial on your loading procedures. If you were to be using a full-length sizing die with expander ball, would that dictate any necessity to alter the process? For example, would you still anneal prior to sizing or after that part of the process? Does the expander ball being drawn up through the neck of an annealed case cause excess case neck stretching, thereby decreasing case life expectancy otherwise annulled by using mandrel dies? Thanks so much for the effort you exert in teaching this craft. Blessings from northern BC.

[@primalrights]

I lube the id of the neck to keep the expander clean and smooth.

[@highseassailor]

You quickly made neck tension relatable for those who don't know.

[@11mchristo]

Only if you want to greatly extend the life of your brass, improve neck-tension consistency, and imrove the cartridge accuracy. Otherwise...don't bother.

[@toddvandyke8737]

Again, Thank you for the excellent video. I appreciate your data driven approach. There is so so much information tucked away, but available for members. I think shooters at every level could glean loads of valuable insight by joining!

[@primalrights]

Glad it was helpful!

[@misterlewgee8874]

Interesting all in all. Thanks for sharing. You raise some interesting ideas...like move neck more as maybe less variance in large amount of work ...pardon if I got it wrong.. I sonic clean, then, imperial dry lube, graphite . I don't like idea of bits of rice possibly getting stuck..but..never tried. Love amp annealing Don't have amp press...so can't really tell I neck Collet size..as no lube required...and minimal work on brass. Maybe your shiny smooth annealed neck comes from remnant lube. I shoot 17, 20 cal...sometimes case necks dented or deformed...so I oft lightly neck size, while depriming using Lee collet die...to make neck symmetrical again before annealing.. Good to watch...I like your content..

[@whliving]

Have you compared results from your Bench Source to the Amp annealer to determine if there are any practical differences?

[@shadyburnz12]

Good stuff brother

[@richardwills8017]

Greg, perhaps a little off subject a bit on this video, however I’d like your thoughts on something. A short time ago I switched to a SAC sizing die. I am currently using another companies expander die and mandrels, very similar to Sinclair’s version. I spoke with SAC and they related that I am much better off using their mandrels that expand immediately following sizing. Clearly, sizing expanding inside the sizing die will reduce a step in brass processing, but do you think it is actually a better method of using a mandrel. Thanks so much. Scott

[@primalrights]

Yes, I agree 100% with SAC. The SAC/Forster method of having the expander enter the neck/shoulder junction before the neck has left the neck portion of the die, is critical. I address this in several of my recent videos. The video on the 7PRC Primal, the video on "this is hurting your performance," and perhaps the .20 BRA video... I mention why this is important. A separate mandrel op gives you another opportunity to introduce variables, which you don't want... and running more strokes of the press is just not a good idea. Then there's the fact that most mandrel dies do not support the case in any way. Then other dies with expanders that are set low in the case, suffer the same problem and tend to produce very lackluster results. Go with the Short Action Customs configuration. It's the best there is.

[@richardwills8017]

@@primalrights I’ll put the order in, thanks so much. I am a person that “shoots to reload”, I just love gathering data and testing. I can see, based on you video’s, that I have to have an Amp press. The information it provides is incredible. Owning one would of course require more testing, which I just love.

[@Stoodknight]

Spoke to Caleb over at Bench-Source annealing and put my order in for one of his units...that was weeks ago. Now his website has been taken down and he can't be reached? Something is very fishy?

[@tonydevich7937]

What do you think of peterson brass

[@TheReallyPleasedDoge]

Do you think that you are seeing consistency in your process with the rice tumbling because some of the lube from the outside of the cases is getting on the rice and being spread inside the necks? Thanks again for the video!

[@primalrights]

I lube the inside of the necks.

[@livefiretacticaltraining7674]

Hey Greg, regarding annealing for the 7mm PRC Primal virgin case prep; I had 100 pieces of Lapua brass that I sacrificed in learning my Autodod neck turner, and practicing expanding to .28 and .30, etc. In that lot, I sacrificed a case to my Amp Annealer after expanding to .28 and I got an anneal code of 0165. Then I expanded to .30 and sacrificed another case to the Amp Annealer and got a code of 0162. My question is, should I Subject my brass to 2 different settings? Should I use one code after expanding to .28, and then another after expanding to .30? Or should I just use the first code I got after expanding to .28 and keep that setting for the life of the brass? Thanks Greg!

[@primalrights]

I haven’t tested it like that, but I’d run hottest each time.

[@joeyzagari4155]

Do you need to anneal virgin lapua 220 Russian before necking up to 6mm or anneal after it’s first necking up, or just load it and fire form it and continue as per normal with first anneal after first firing?

[@primalrights]

Depends on other aspects of your setup. Generally you can get away with not annealing it until after the first firing.

[@jacobdeem8187]

Man you nerd out. Pretty sweet

[@chrisweber4450]

What if we don't have an expensive method for absolute uniform annealing? Is it better to skip the process or anneal the best we can anyways? Thanks

[@primalrights]

Better to anneal using whatever you’ve got than not at all. Use a drill, socket, and flame color change method I pioneered many years ago.

[@chrisweber4450]

@primalrights thank you so much for the reply. I just got on the annealing train and did that very same method you mentioned for a lot of brass Love the channel. So helpful and informative

[@Vintovka]

​@@primalrights do you have a video or article for this method?

[@primalrights]

@@Vintovka yes, my annealing video from like 6-8 years ago.

[@davidhoward7691]

I anneal all my MAGNUM rifle brass. Not so much 223 or 300 BLK

[@primalrights]

They could benefit from it more than magnum.

[@cracktimmy]

My alpha OCD brass just got reloaded for the 20th time because I anneal EVERY SINGLE FIRING

[@SigmaBallistics]

Greg reloaded a 22 creed over 40 times without annealing lol

[@cracktimmy]

@@SigmaBallistics lol I’m sure!! But mine is for real… I’m curious how long it’s gonna last but I know Im gonna purchase new brass

[@APACHE529CREWCHIEF]

Before or after resizing

[@cracktimmy]

@@APACHE529CREWCHIEFI always anneal before resizing

[@willo7734]

yep me too. it always sizes up the same way everytime because I do it.

[@christophergruenwald5054]

What area of SD are you in?

[@tonydevich7937]

Thanksbgreg

[@skinnypedaldown5044]

Stop neck sizing