primitive Lime kiln Burn, The Results are in

This is the results of about 2 weeks work of muddy work and planning. it didnt go as well as i had hoped. i think i needed way more fuel or way less limestone. The purpose of this was not to see if i an do it but to see if i can do it in a way that is worth my time. The answer to that question is no. on a very small scale its fine and i am sure in the future i will use the skills learnt here but for the workshop plastering i will be buying the lime in because the quantity is just to much for me to do like this.
Clearing some things up
it seems there is a lot of confusion around my last video, I am completely aware that more fuel and more air a taller kiln and a closed top would all improve the results. Lets look at why i didn't do those things.
1. kiln is not tall enough : If the kin was any taller it would be hard to load and unload unless i had it dug in to a hill witch is more work than i wanted to do considering i can buy the lime quite cheap.
2. Close the top of the kiln so heat cant escape: This is very true, however it would make it very dificult to unload unless i rebuilt the top of the kiln each time witch again is more work than i wanted to do considering the price i can buy it for. i could of used a larger sheet of metal but i didnt have one, and again if i am going to spend money on it i might as well just buy the quicklime...
3. Not hot enough: considering there is large bits of lime that are burn this is clearly not true. its just uneven and not enough fuel to burn all of the stone.
4. you should use charcoal: yes charcoal would be better but i would need 2 ton of it at least to burn the amount of limestone i need to plaster the workshop.
alot of the comments seem to be missing the point of the experiment. the experiment was to see if it is worthwhile for me to burn my own quicklime learn about it and provide some educational content to the channel. I found that it is quite easy to do in a wood stove, it is quite easy to do in a small efficient kiln with charcoal. if i loaded my large kiln with loads of wood and a small amount of limestone it would work fine. But the problem is doing it on any scale that gets me a large amount at a time requires Alot of work and alot of fuel. the experiment showed me that to make the two tons of quicklime i need for the workshop would take all my firewood stores and more. and take me weeks of work. i can buy the quicklime for £8.90 per 25kg so with everything else i have got to do around here it is just not worth it for me. im happy i did it and got a greater understanding of the work that goes in to it.
Hope that clears some things up
Making these videos takes alot of time so if you want to help keep the channel going visit patreon
www.patreon.co...
www.KrisHarbour.co.uk

[@danijaliraduran8147]

Do not give up, it is possible to achive your goal with small modifications. Secret is not in adding air flow, but stopping it, and having bone dry fireing wood. You did most of it just fine. Quantities are fine as well. After you start your fire, plastik bottle filled with gasoline soaked cloath is just fine, let it burn wild until it reaches its maximum. When you get to that point shut down air intake, leaving a very small opening, just enough to have fire going and not to charkoil itself.. Use the metal sheet to cover the top and over the metal sheet thick layer of soil. Be carefull it does not colapse in. Arround the sheet plug all openings with cob except for one or two which you plug with lime stone. You are smart and skillfull guy, you know what i mean. Limestone on top will show you what is going on inside your kiln. Temperature inside HAS to stay at its peak for as long as possible. Dont open your kiln untill she's cold. It might take three days from firing, be patient. When you learn and master that skill you might start selling your quick lime. Greetings from Bosnia, good luck and good health.

[@ig2d]

I was going to suggest having a proper roof on the kiln might have helped

[@RyanParle81]

I think you did ok on this here Kris, I would make a wire mesh container from stainless fly screen, its about £30 for a 1.2m x 3m roll. Fill the container with the burned stone and lower it in to the tank of water, wait for the reaction to finish then give it a shake around to wash the lime off of the un-burned stone, and pull out the mesh container. you could use the un-burned stone in another burn or find another use for it.

[@zekeslavens]

Not a failure, a learning experience.

[@urmommawasfun]

Glad you were willing to post this. Not every new project can be a success. It’s a reality people should see. Cheers mate.

[@nefariousfraggle3865]

Dead on. Nobody taught me how to work on trucks, I learned from trial and error. Now I can restore old trucks, engine rebuild and all. You'll get this project nailed, if you haven't already

[@JamesN-wg2dr]

Not a failure for me, I finally understood how this process works! Very interesting.

[@almath9987]

Your honesty is a virtue that is seldom seen on utube. You said failure a few times in this video but i take it is that is how u felt at the time. For me the viewer i am in awe at your get up and go to try this process and get a half result on your first major attempt is amazing 👍. As others viewers have comented about the lower grill and better air flow not to mention your own intuitive minds thoughts i am sure this will end up as a working lime kiln which others can learn from your trial and error since you are honest enogh to post this video so they can learn without taking short cuts.

[@RobertRoberts329]

Kris, I think you’re close. You need a bellows or blower in the bottom and a basket or grill on the top to keep the pieces on top of the fire.

[@bjrn-oskarrnning2740]

Could you put the burned stones on some sort of grid, pour water on them, let the lime run off and collect the remaining rocks for another go in the fire?

[@Tailss1]

This is how the ancient Romans did it. They invented concrete.

[@lelaniaorr9884]

Based on other videos, your piece sizes are fine. What you need is a grill to keep air flowing underneath and a tighter opening at the top. Pretty good anyway.

[@tovaritchboy]

Other vids that have seen the also used charcoal to make a higher heat, that was the secret as wood doesn't get hot enough.

[@HarryL2020]

@@tovaritchboy well the key it to feed it lots of air, then the wood will turn into charcoal and burn even hotter.

[@tovaritchboy]

@@HarryL2020 either way needed higher temps so combo of more air and fuel.

[@HarryL2020]

@@tovaritchboy yeah, I used a cooking extractor fan (used the output) and it melted pretty much any metal I put in.

[@tovaritchboy]

@@HarryL2020 Now that is the way to get HIGHER temps. any kind of blower fan should work.

[@tanner1548]

Found your videos through your "5 Years Living Off Grid ... " one first, and I thought this one was fantastic! I think it'd be really cool to include this video trio in a chemistry class, as it's such a practical use of chemistry knowledge! *And* it shows a bit about how experimentation goes, not always as we'd like but always informative :D

[@TroyMcKenna]

Nooo! Don't give up. Ha ha! I SO wanted you to succeed at this because I've been wanting to do the same with limestone available on my property. You mentioned in a previous video testing the quality or purity of the limestone. Would you please do a video describing how you test it? Thanks for all your videos! You're an inspiration!

[@RachelDorrington-ku9jg]

That's amazing, your not just learning for yourself, your also teaching us too, so a great success in my view, well done for giving it a really good go, and it worked well, amazing to watch :)

[@moiragoldsmith7052]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained Kris! .... We have all learned loads though! Don't be disheartened.

[@liftoffthecouch]

I loved this set of videos! Thanks for sharing. I definitely want to try this out.

[@waughthogwaugh3078]

Thanks for sharing what you have learned here.

[@MalcOfLincoln]

That's not a failure Kris, it's called 'getting experience' 😊👍

[@Ana_crusis]

Never even noticed the stabilizer was gone til you said so Kris; It's much better to have good sound and the video is absolutely fine. :) You may not have been doing much wrong Kris. Look at this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lime_kiln " _Typically the kiln took a day to load, three days to fire, two days to cool and a day to unload, so a one-week turnaround was normal. The degree of burning was controlled by trial and error from batch to batch by varying the amount of fuel used. Because there were large temperature differences between the center of the charge and the material close to the wall, a mixture of underburned (i.e. high loss on ignition), well-burned and dead-burned lime was normally produced_ "

[@mitsakakis]

Really like your videos mate, I am learning a ton..keep it up...since you need shells ,from scallops I am guessing will do,you could go around and ask at you local restaurants..we are usually throw all the shells and the wooden case they come with as a bonus..too bad I am not nowhere near you..

[@markd1300]

At least you tried. Plus you learn as you go. I wish you good luck.

[@intensewalkera]

For me there was a lot/ too much heat loss from your kiln with that large open top, not sure if you covered it with the metal plate or not when burning, but id like to see a modified kiln and another attempt.

[@Crewsy]

IntenseDef You can see the metal plate on top when the fire is burning but it only covered about 70% of the opening.

[@intensewalkera]

@@Crewsy its not clear if that was on from the start or was added as an after thought to keep the heat in, either way, its worth another go with a few ammendments.

[@DRJMF1]

Great insight, another amazing achievement for you !. You can get free lime on-line ! from surplus unwanted material from over specified plastering projects etc.

[@EldeNova]

Great to see you keeping at it Kris. Love the vids and whole mindset.

[@jordwhite1]

Good effort Kris!! That is by no means a fail!! Well done pal.

[@kundikishore]

Sir, Don't say 'a failure '...every failure is a step to success meaning, here we all leaning so many skills through your videos, it's a great experiment👍

[@Building_Bluebird]

I'm thinking that the shape of the kiln may be the issue. If you added a full steel top with a chimney and sealed the edges with cob and added a fan blowing air at the bottom I believe you would have a more uniform burn with more of the wood gases being burnt, raising the interior temperature in the kiln and that would likely yield more limestone converted to quick lime for the amount of fuel. This is very cool.

[@mwnciboo]

Learning curve man...i think maybe an electric fan on a battery on the end of a pipe at the bottom? Forced draft? Also enclose the top. The hole at the top is too big / metal needs insultation otherwise it will wick away heat and radiate it to atmosphere. Keep at it you are 80% there.

[@l1t7l3ph0o7]

hey I had a thought that may help... If you place all the chunks on a screen and place that in the reaction chamber, you can sift out all of those big chunks that aren't ready and toss those back in the kiln. I recon that ought to save you quite a bit of time sorting them out. I think your on the right track, a little more experimenting you should be able to increase yields and efficiency.

[@caroles5258]

Really enjoyed this experiment of yours.

[@wolfe1970]

I know time was a issue, but what you could have done is made charcoal first using this pit, then used that for the fuel as charcoal burns hotter and for longer

[@ravenhhca]

Around here the old boys kept the fire going for 3 days, it was an excuse for a round the clock party.

[@RXRSawdustStation]

You tried, Kris....that's more than most people do. That's more than I did ;-) Keep up the great work, man!

[@HenryShiley]

You could build a fairly simple barrel tumbler (3 or 4 boards inside for agitation and a couple rings of 3/4" holes) to toss the raw "baked" into to separate the lime from the leftover stone. That lets you re-burn the smaller stone later, as well. Cheers!

[@jayburrough4308]

It's cool that you can make your own concrete with that quick lime

[@vonmarmotson812]

I feel like you may be able to tweek the kiln to be more efficient and burn hotter. If you have a smaller hole in the top you will lose less heat. Also if you covered the metal sheet you're using as a lid in a layer of mud you will lose less heat from there. Like you said, you have burnt most of the stone but you haven't penetrated all the way through. More heat in the kiln could well be the solution. Thanks for all the etertainment Kris. Have a great 2019 and I look froward to following the journey.

[@rogergregory5981]

great vid Chris learnt a lot ..very fuel hungrey process commercial cement plants have tried a few things to keep fuel costs down have you got a local quarry you can get the quick lime from

[@Caerlynydd]

Hi Kris, loving what you are doing. Just a thought. I've seen dozens of old lime kilns around the coast of West Wales. They are all conical in shape, with the wide end facing upwards. No idea, really, but I wondered whether the shape of the kiln affects the burn? Yours is cylindrical, or bowl shaped.

[@johnstanton8499]

Amazing videos Thanks Experimentation is never a failure

[@CMCrockett]

More fuel, less stone and a bellows that's cam driven off a windmill. Have you ever checked out the Primitive Technology channel? The guy does kilns really well. Just be sure to turn the closed captioning on.

[@Shavenhamster]

He mentioned in part one of this he was inspired by Primitive technology.

[@crybabyclassic]

It's a failure initially at 6:30 where I am now, got the rest to watch but so far I see why based on design in terms of being conducive to high heat temps needed. But i can see experimentation being done with equally as easy to make structures maybe 20 min more of work being done, and having more airflow control. Definitely need heat dispersion at the base via some sort of raised platform so the heat can gather below it all, with enough space to have a few ceramic or metal rods added as this helps a bit too. But def more airflow control, tighter top, and the longer the better in same cases depending on location and weather as it can be manipulated to have the wind add power to it with a super easy modification, or natural flow of cold air and currents without wind can be played with using shallow underground channels that go into it leading out specific lengths of exit vents that you can also modify with a basic fluke that's adjustable, simple little modifications that involve minimal things. If it's raining good to have a rain cap. The video however is not anfailure and I enjoyed watching, you make good content that does have much knowledge as some of us don't have the place, time or resources to perform similar experiments or projects, and those who have tend to only talk big or comment and have no videos lol. Thx for sharing m8

[@Chr.U.Cas1622]

Dear Kris Harbour. I thought so. Not enough heat and kiln not high enough. So it was a huge/big waste of firewood mainly. Nevertheless 👍👌👏 Really good that you uploaded it because this can prevent other people from trying to do it the same way. Maybe you could have 1 or 2 limestones per winter day in your oven in the roundhouse. I guess that this could work. Thanks a lot for making teaching recording editing uploading and sharing. Best regards luck health and wisdom.

[@srh9893]

Also if you use charcoal it'll burn better, green wood doesn't burn very hot. So you can make charcoal yourself by taking your wood and putting that in your burner then sealing it up completely so no oxygen gets in, and then it'll turn to charcoal. Then you can burn that charcoal with the limestone and it'll work better. Get a grill, make charcoal, taller, and a lid.

[@J9_j3]

you need to place smaller amount of limestone onto the substantial bed of fuel then cover it with more fuel. light the fuel on top and on the bottom at the same time. also using charcoal like suggested below will be better as you won't be wasting valuable heat on wood conversion to charcoal, stealing it from limestone conversion. also add forced air-flow to the reaction. more air = more oxygen = hotter burn.

[@susanbell2771]

Don't see that as a failure, you have proved it can be done, you have a floor for the shower room, some quicklime and have learned you need a different or hotter fuel source ( could you perhaps produce some charcoal for this specific purpose) to produce a higher percentage. So well done you, it just is a long hard fuel hungery process to produce the amounts you will need for your workshop. Will be easier to buy in the quicklime you need.

[@ehillaisd]

good job. the heat you are getting out of adding the calcium oxide back to the water is the result of an exothermic reaction between it and the water. you changed the limestone chemically with heat by driving off the carbon dioxide but you are not getting the same heat back. Fairly classic chemical reaction. love your videos.

[@MyLevelheaded]

1850 degrees for 18 hours key is fuel and the rocket furnace design for batch process...the old kilns were insulated by earth lots of it and charcoal through out and coal was used later...so the flueing [design] was critical as was insulating the walls of the kiln with soils clay mostly and walls were likely made of basalt...choking the exhaust for super heating again is the furnace design...

[@edemup44]

The ones that I have seen work have a small opening at the bottom like you have. In addition they had a small opening at the top with the cob built around the wood and stone.

[@thegit8698]

I think you done quite a good job considering you never did it before

[@billd.akaevylaz754]

I know this is an older video, but I’ll comment anyway… It didn’t look like a failure at all for a first run. A bit mor heat and possibly a barrel tumbler to knock the calcium carbonate off any unburnt bits of rock and you would be in business.And deciding the energy needed to complete the process is better spent elsewhere is not a failure in my book either. Great work! I’ve wanted to know how to make lime for a while now and I do now. Thank you for that. =)

[@poulsonarrow]

Kris what about those big wire cages leveled at a hight so air can flow that heat ? Think you def need that space free around each stone so that draw can better max your efforts . As you said its not a failure.

[@solarfunction1847]

If you burner like a rocket stove then you more efficiency & greater heat. Like Chris Breeze below suggested using a grill rack but take it to a new level say 18 inches below the top rim & have 2 or 3 or 4 feeding tubes on the sides that direct the wood into the centre & each feeding tube has a cover so that your main air breathing opening that you have at the bottom now is still of use to you in the future. This way it be able to burn longer as you feed it from all around the sides & as the wood burns down it will fall down the side tubes into the centre to keep the fire going.

[@AddictedtoProjects]

So what I have learned from that German documentary I sent you the other day, is that the guys were burning the stones for quite a few days. So it looks like it just needs more time to 'cook' them properly. TBH, you're trying to reverse engineer an ancient tecnique which isn't exactly written down. So I wouldn't beat myself up for not cracking it the first time round. You just gotta play with it and figure it out! :)

[@offgrid-j5c]

Yes,, way more wood! I find 25 to 75 wood. And lots of intake air volume!! Hot Hot Hot!

[@Deckzwabber]

I reckon you could make it work. But yeah, there's only so many hours in a day and always more work to be done. It makes sense to outsource some of the work, so you can work efficiently towards the end goal.

[@jennetichi9551]

I wish it would have worked better for you! Would it have been possible to relight the fire when the stone were still hot and see the results? You may end up with well cooked rocks after you burn your brush! Best of luck and thanks for sharing!

[@traditionalskillstrust1546]

I wouldn't say that this was a fail as for the most part it worked and the method now needs refining. It might interest you to know that the SPAB built a field kiln in Boxley Kent and got some good results. Take a look: Old House Project: Grey Chalk Burning in our Lime-Stabilised Soil Kiln | SPAB

[@stevewoodw]

I was also thinking some form of shelter over the top may not be a bad idea - a structure that you could move to another place at a later point perhaps. Or a sheet of metal on a few rocks over the top which allowed air in and stopped rain from coming down on the rocks - it does rain quite a lot in Wales, doesn't it?

[@belesariius]

Excellent if the planning guys pay a visit ;) ...

[@ntacms90]

There goes my melt seashells into a house dreams.

[@paulmaydaynight9925]

1984 thatcherite welsh coal would have produced heat above the 900°C required ;P... perhaps the better option is an earth insulated kiln as there was a lot of wasted heat directly to the wind The clamp is considered a type of kiln. If the clamp is insulated by packing earth or mud around it, it becomes a scove kiln. The man-made "limepit" was usually dug in ground near the place where limestone could be quarried. Many limepits were sunken in the ground at a depth of between 2.5 and 5 meters and 3 to 4.5 meters in diameter, in a circular fashion, and some were built with a retaining wall along the inside for support

[@simontulloch6882]

Where I live they build a pile of limestone chunks around a central bell shaped cavity. They then burn resinous wood and brush within the cavity for two or three days. Commercial slaked lime is a couple of euros for a 10kg bag so it’s a dying art

[@ChileExpatFamily]

Nice work. Good to see you are getting it done even if you have to purchase some from the store. How do you tell when it is cooked enough? Was it a color change in the stone? Jim

[@TheLusi91]

I'm just subscribe your channel! And I love watched what you doing all day. Love! From Indonesia

[@davidosullivan3432]

Sorry for my ignorance but what would you use the the water and line mixture for ?

[@radcow]

Kris you need to communicate at the start of video about whats happening as it sets the tone for the video also a small b role Introduction would be nice to as you seem to jump straight into it 👍👍👍

[@LorettaMacabre]

Excellent my friend!👍👍👍

[@maxejnar9934]

you need to burn it for a longer time. Gravel and stuff is no problem when you mix the lime that stuff will sink to the bottom and you can use the liquid stuff fine

[@stvooplayhouse]

Good to know 😌

[@MrPhillipgraham]

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts" That noise in the background sounds like you are running a bath.

[@MyLevelheaded]

mostly the successful old batch kilns were built into hillsides the construct was similar to a rocket stove and the fuel sources were charcoal or straight up coal...some things still require fossil fuel for economic reasons but i would go at night ...

[@seanhunt138]

There is a reason lime is so expensive, its hard to make. But you did really well

[@TacoMaster3211]

Could you not have done a second burn for the stuff that didn't fully cook?

[@EssGeeSee]

I am guessing that we are about 60 miles North of you. I have been looking for Quick Lime for years. I would be interested to know where you are going to get it from???

[@HarryL2020]

Have an old extractor fan to make it hotter, I did it with some wood for fuel and I melted tin and aluminium cans.

[@claytonleal7947]

Either more ventilation on the bottom or hook up a leaf blower to really get the air pumping in there and a smaller opening on top should get the job done without increasing the fuel

[@scrappydogfinance8434]

IS THE LYME MADE FROM THE ROCKS OR THE WOOD ASH? I thought wood ask forms lime for soap making...

[@mrRobbins999]

I think instead of one big air opening on the side 3/4 smaller ones around it would have been better. I also agree with what other folk have said about using some sort of grill to keep the rocks up so the heat can get all the way around them through the burn plus I guess with them been heavy they would sink through the embers an fall to the bottom so the ground would have also sucked the heat out of them affecting the burn to.

[@mrRobbins999]

Just a quick thought also. If you do try again. Go round some building sites and grab aload of broken house bricks with the 3 holes in out the skips. Aload of them in the bottom will hold the heat better and let the air flow round

[@stevewoodw]

A brick bolster would be a good way to chip off the lime quickly and I know you wouldn't want to sieve the mix, but something basic may be a way of getting the grit out - does the lime dissolve and the grit get left behind? Perhaps there's some way of pouring the dissolved lime out of a container and then leaving the grit behind?

[@ShaneDGri]

I wonder if a domed kiln would retain more heat and enable a higher heat throughout the kiln to be achieved.

[@crazymaze22]

So what is the Lyme used for? I’m not very familiar with Lyme other than I know you use it to make some soaps.

[@steveadams4009]

I wonder if there are any examples of the kilns used by the ancient Romans/

[@paulcrowe5392]

As a rough rule of thumb you need 7[b dry wood for every 1lb of limestone to get s good percentage of lime from limestone.

[@PR_96]

You have to use charcoal. To make Slaked lime you need approx 900 degrees. Usually wood burns at 600 in a classic bonfire, if it's in a kiln and enclosed you can get it higher of course, but still you would have to use large quantities of wood, and you don't have space for that, to realistically add it all the time and maintain/distribute the temperature. That makes using wood pretty insufficient.

[@Nszewczak]

looking at you results and the other comments I think you are pretty close to success with a little refinement!

[@ryanwilliams9667]

Sorry it didn't work out. Good on you for moving on.

[@ronin478]

Better luck next time! You at least tried it, which is a win any day. Cheers!

[@lyndawilliams8434]

Not a failure, you just managed to make whitewash instead..... and you learned.

[@LuciferRTI]

You should take the germans technice into consideration, build a "room" behind the opening out of the stones, that supports itself and then you can light a fire inside there that heats everything from the bottom and can be fed as long as necessary.

[@LuciferRTI]

video is in german, but shows how they do it, takes them 4 days in total, and they use Spruce wood for its big long flames kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYq0g5isa9Zpbtk

[@Tailss1]

Half one, bloody heck what time did you light it?

[@MyPlayHouse]

Very Good info,, really really good try,, if you ever try again, you have learned a lot, and can improve.

[@LolitasGarden]

Having seen Steven Edholm do the same thing with relatively higher success I immediately notice the main difference (besides stones versus oyster shells) being the circumference of the kiln. Just a thought. Contact Steven (Skillcult) and see what he recommends for future experiments.

[@mikebeatstsb7030]

You buy crisps by the bucket?

[@QALibrary]

Could you turn this into a charcoal oven and in turn use the charcoal made in it to heat and fire the limestone?

[@KrisHarbour]

i said i would use this for charcoal in the video.

[@QALibrary]

ops I must have missed that part

[@densamme1752]

Hard to see in this video, but in the last video the vind came over the top of the hill (towards the side opening) meaning that your draft is on the same side as the side opening creating a small hotspot. I would test putting in pipes to allow air to pass to the other side of the kiln

[@Adamskys]

No idea what I'm talking about here, would burning with coal work? Burns hotter?

[@metamud8686]

Now you know why that stuff is (relatively) expensive to buy. :-)

[@sassymiles4452]

First Attempt In Learning

[@chrisryan3770]

Air, air, air! Cut small openings at 12,3 & 9 o’clock to supplement the main furnace front mouth opening. And/or insert a ring of 15mm or 22mm pipe into the kiln wall just above the main furnace mouth to pipe a forced draught in from a FD fan. You’ll increase the temperature by a reasonably large margin with minimum expense and effort. I used an electric air bed pump and a hollow metal mop handle to add a forced draught to a standard rubbish bucket style garden brazier from B&Q. I can now burn through five inch logs in minutes rather than hours.

[@PenninkJacob]

❤❤❤

[@sjobang]

A taller and more slender kiln distributes heat more evenly, and also makes for a stronger drag.

[@KrisHarbour]

I will make it really tall if you come and load and unload it. deal?

[@sjobang]

@@KrisHarbour Could'nt you load the kiln while you build it, and unload it as you dismantle it?

[@Crewsy]

Perhaps you just needed more wood as your initial layer in the kiln to have more burn at the bottom since that seems to be where you found most of the usable stone.