PRO CYCLIST SECRET THAT SOLVED MY KNEE PAIN (and gave me free watts) - Ask a (Retired) Pro Cyclist

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[@10ktube]

Fun fact. People get insoles for ski boots and since that sport doesn't involve foot pronation, the process and method is the same. Often, a running store or even a podiatrist that isn't super clued in to the needs of a cyclist vs general foot health, will make them slightly differently. Great tips though.

[@john-tomlinson]

I was going to say this too: a good ski boot fitting shop is probably better than a running store. I got a great set from person who was one of the top guys making insoles for skiing (and had been on the US Ski Team). He also worked with a lot of pro cyclists and was a certified pedorthist.

[@mondoabz]

I got my cycling soles from a ski boot shop.

[@ElonMuckX]

I’ve been using Hockey insoles for decades. Lots of options in fit and prices.

[@HoldenAdventures]

Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a KZbin video like this asking for people to post info about their local expert - nicely done!!

[@maximkrivov]

Best advice ever. Totally worth it. Been using my custom insoles for 7 years now.

[@DM-jh5rs]

I have great experience using superfeet green insoles in my cycling shoes. They conform to your foot shape over time and have great arch support. They have a few different arch sizes. I've had three sets of them that i've been moving around between my cycling shoes and inline skates for years. Great alternative to fully custom insoles imo!

[@ytubela]

Superfeet are great, I used them for 5 years, but I finally bit the bullet and spent $300 for custom insoles from my Podiatrist, and its amazing how much better custom are vs superfeet or specialized insoles, which are actually better for cycling than superfeet.

[@davidv6803]

@bikefitjames is a proponent of the G8 insoles, which are not specifically custom but moducular custom. My bike fitter in Toronto had previously recommended them and much like Phil talked about, my IT band issues disappeared.

[@IanB17]

I have these as well & they haven’t totally solved my pain but it’s certainly made it better. I’m still considering custom insoles though.

[@ashark999]

DKOS Orthotics in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. He specifically makes in house custom orthotics for cycling. Full carbon bottom. 10/10. Would highly recommend.

[@christophertrapp4195]

Insoles are a game changer! Pros don't talk about them because shoe sponsors don't want to talk about how their insoles are garbage. I have a pair of Solestars in my Bont Vaypor S's and my Shimano Gravel shoes and will never ride factory insoles again. For me, they take up just a smidge of volume inside the shoe so they hug my foot more completely plus I get way better support. I wish I had a local insole person, but the sorta custom route I went has been working wonders.

[@billhulley]

I got Sidas moulded footbeds from CycleFit in central London. Transformative, wouldn't ride without them now.

[@thewisconsingravelcyclist]

Excellent information Phil. I as well have custom orthotics and it is amazing how much of a difference they make!

[@recreationventuring]

I have used custom insoles in my ski boots for 20 years and have never thought about getting some for my cycling shoes.

[@steveroyall6751]

Great video Phil, I'm sports medicine podiatrist based in Lehi Utah just South of Salt Lake City. I recently have taken up cycling about 8 years ago. I have been making custom insoles for literally 35 years and are starting to do it more and more cyclists. These are a game changer. So many factors go into making a decent pair of orthotics. Sometimes, biomechanics is more of an art form than a science. I look for to seeing more of your videos.

[@magicknight8412]

This is something I have been meaning to get for myself for years.

[@jasonhurst2491]

G8 Performance 2620 semi-custom insole is excellent. Comes with 5 sizes of arch support and allows for a huge range of adjustment. Very thin and light so perfect for cycling shoes. Can also get metatarsal pads and heel wedges for them if needed. Can set them up yourself with some testing, but they are very popular with bike fitters and some podiatrists. Not cheap, but cheaper than fully custom orthotics ehich are not magic anyway. They are only as good as the person who makes them.

[@beeble2003]

When I had knee pain a few years ago (when I wasn't cycling much at all) part of the solution was custom insoles for my shoes -- they really do work. I got mine from a podiatrist that my doctor referred me to.

[@mondoabz]

I got mine done at a mountain sports shop. They do them for ski boots. Anywhere that do ski boots will have some form of custom sole system.

[@GSmith215]

I’m in PT now for IT band issues and my normy doctor and normy PT folks made zero mention of foot support even after many convos about my cycling. I really need to find a PT who treats cyclists

[@utube7930]

My inner soul is now pain free

[@sdmike1141]

😂

[@tobimaxx]

I use Solestar and got them custom made in Cologne Germany by Elsenbach Sportdiagnostik. Bike fit and inserts. Elsenbach bike fit for the stars.😉

[@JohnAzzi430]

Good advice but I think there is a big asterisk. Your feet change over time. they get stronger. It really depends where youre starting out from because it could hurt more than help. I know this from running. You need to build your arch strength to produce power. Forming a customer insole around weak arches wont help strengthen them and will hunder progress in the long term. If you're already doing 15 hours a week on the bike sure go for it. but just getting started theres probably a lot more that needs to be corrected and strengthend first.

[@jasonhurst2491]

This is why I'm not a fan of DIY heat moulded insoles. You're simply reinforcing the problem by creating a mould of a sub-optimal foot. Same goes for weighted custom moulding. The foot will deform under any load and display all the characteristics you or the custom insole maker are trying to eliminate. Why create a mold of that? People may still react positively because it is still better that what they had before, which likely provided zero proprioception and less stability. Better to start with a semi-rigid insole and add to or subtract from it to create a stable and well formed foot structure. Then mould something appropriate for cycling shoes from that. There is very little flexion of the foot in a cycling shoe due to the hard sole so proprioception is compromised. Even strong feet benefit from something to stimulate the arches. I always advocate for the right amount of support and that is different for each person. For running and general walking about, it is ideal to focus on foot strength and gait mechanics and wean yourself off arch support over time. For some people though the reality is that arch support and good insoles are for life. If it helps them then so be it.

[@jackiegammon2065]

Custom footbeds have been a part of the cycling community for quite some time. My footbeds are almost 20 years old, and I'm telling you this because I have had 5 knee surgeries... all from my college days. And I would agree, they are well worth the money!!

[@emilioc700]

Huge +1 to custom orthotics. Not cheap but worth every penny. One set for each road and mtb shoes for me.

[@hernanhernandez3861]

Very, very helpful. Thank you.

[@markrushton1516]

Cyclefit in the UK were pioneers of this and used Sidas. They even have a podiatrist on call who makes custom ones. 3d print insoles are the high end. See also Amy Cycling Adventures where she has a set done.

[@phila9288]

Thanks Phil!

[@speciesofspaces]

And one of these days someone is going to finally convince the industry that where bike shoes position your foot over the pedal is probably the worst and least efficient location for human endurance. Which makes me think insoles are how many of us indeed get by. But if the position ever does change to a truly ergonomic location over the pedal it isn't only going to change shoe and pedal design but some frame geometry as well. Which I assume will probably never happen. However it would still be interesting for someone to do a "mid-sole cleat position" study etc. Kind of like the decades it took for narrower tires to actually be tested for better or worse rolling resistance. So much of what we do in cycling is based solely on tradition and not on new data. But I suspect the ball of the foot is not exactly the most ideal location for continuous load bearing.

[@jonnyoneplate]

😂

[@seanparker7415]

The ball-of-foot duplicates the push-off phase of walking and running, so there is some rationality behind it; but, yes, I agree: we really need proper scientific study on a range of foot positions to find the position that gives the most comfort, power and efficiency. Downhill MTBers tend to favour a midfoot position (because of forces through the foot) and I know that an Australian bike fitter, Steve Hogg, experimented a lot with mid-foot position for road sprinters but his methods were not scientific.

[@speciesofspaces]

@@seanparker7415 Indeed and it just seems crazy in this age of "big data" why we wouldn't run through simulations to sort all this out? I know the industry forces are powerful but it could on the other hand be done in a way where not everything we are currently doing has to be turned upside down and over night etc. In terms of the "push-off" analogy I would guess the most efficient pedal stroke would not be to be "pushing off" in every rotation. therefore, having the foot locked in that position over and over might just be one obvious problem. Clearly from a purely foot health angle this would likely be the case and would relieve many of the discomforts riders experience. But intuitively I would think the rotation or pedal stroke is not supposed to mimic a "push-off" effect each time one makes a circle but rather a "continuously adaptive position" where both the support of the foot and the power of the foot are shared across the anatomical structure making it much more like a pendulum etc. All me guessing, obviously.

[@seanparker7415]

@@speciesofspaces There is force applied from the plantar surface of the downstroke at every revolution (otherwise there would be no forward motion[pulling up with cleats excepted]) so what the current 'accepted' foot position is trying to achieve is to duplicate the point at which maximal force is applied when walking/running and applying it to the cycling position. This is ball of foot as it is the push off part of the walking/running gait. At this point, muscles and tendons are physiologically adapted to provide force. But, this doesn't necessarily mean that it is ideal for cycling and I abso;lutely agree that studies ought to be made. They may have been (and I really think that cycling teams would have done it) but I have never seen it published.

[@speciesofspaces]

@@seanparker7415 I guess teams might not do their own studies if they don't see how it could be implemented etc. With UCI regulations and all the rest. Which is kind of why I would hope something would change for the consumer. Less logistical baggage other than the whole re-design process etc. Appreciate your insight, thanks.

[@coverchick]

Great info! Anyone in the Bay Area that does custom insoles?

[@quinnfelton9553]

I'm a pro from the Bay Area, highly suggest Dr. Al Ghamgosar in San Mateo. I think he's at Peninsula Foot and Ankle. Top notch podiatrist and a big cyclist plus your insurance might be able to cover them. I've tried most of the others (specialized custom, road runner etc.) and none can compare

[@ElonMuckX]

Look into hockey insoles, lots of variety and price levels. I use them for my cycling and my everyday shoes too.

[@jimmtb1]

Anyone have a referral for the Los Angeles South Bay area?

[@javierleal1801]

Anyone?

[@marcodeshaies9394]

I use Birkenstock insoles in every shoe for the last 10 plus years.

[@slburps13]

How much do I have to pay to get Mike Tyson to say Chamois?

[@sdmike1141]

😂

[@sdmike1141]

Useful.

[@AceMBP]

My inserts from Russ/Podium are 20 years old and really good as new. I am super careful with them and only use for cycling.

[@teddgram]

I have been pretty lucky that the stock insoles have worked just fine for me, but wholly cow do I notice it when my cleats have moved.

[@cjcrawford1958]

Please, when will Altra start making cycling shoes???

[@Paul9]

We need to start seeing more cycling shoes that are shaped like a human foot and not built around a dress shoe last for aesthetic purposes. Feet need the ability to splay correctly and avoid many of the common issues people experience with their feet and further up the chain as a result. The running shoe industry is slowly turning this way, really hope we eventually see it in cycling shoes.

[@Paul9]

I would add many people neglect foot and lower leg strengthening and end up using orthotics as a permanent crutch.

[@ilmarimujunen9180]

Mtb rider here. Walking with barefoot shoes for reasons. Those are not great for any kind of cycling, while casual riding is not impossible. Wearing barefoots lets your toes spread and feet grow wider, making it hard to find regular shoes that fit. Now all my cycling shoes got way too much empty room at the point as they are too long to be wide enough. Would anyone know any extra wide flat or clipless mtb shoes? And I mean extra wide, I look like a hobbit.

[@jbratt]

My training partner is a pediatrist. Ok you all can be jealous.

[@Anton-zb9dc]

Custom shoes are only reasonable option, but there are so few people doing those right. And if you see how those insoles are produced and see how many modifications/simplifications are made to the feet you ask yourself - is it still my foot or it's something they made my foot be. Video on insoles: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3azqKuQmKenpq8 Custom shoes are not better, master does what he thinks is better, so the authority is the key but not the garant. Funny video on lasts making process with hilarious simplifications: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKvWlYmsf9ZnZ6M

[@qoldensquare22]

why is this video so sped up???

[@sdmike1141]

Sure seems that way huh? That’s just Phil😂

[@piercewasmund2042]

Do you wear customs with your regular shoes?

[@worstretirementever]

when I run or go to the gym, yes

[@tobimaxx]

Yes all the time.

[@kyleweck2695]

Anyone know a guy near Chicago??

[@jaymsf4503]

Nice 🧢 Phil. 😅

[@shannonmeehan]

Inserts made my knees worse!

[@clockout5265]

Are there any mountain bikers who do this? If so, does it work for flats and clipless? I'm 53, ride 5 times a week, and don't care about speed. I'm about fun and being in the forrest, but my freaking knees have been killing me since I reached my 50's.

[@JoshuaTootell]

I personally don't, I'm one of those who is fine with just regular insoles (I ride/run 7 days a week). But you certainly could use insoles if you think that's a problem. I would try and ride with flat pedals for a while to eliminate the cleat variable for a while and be certain that the saddle height isn't an issue.