ProDev: The Series - Fermentation

ProDev: The Series is a snapshot of Counter Culture Coffee's Professional Development program. This quarterly conversation is an opportunity for coffee lovers across-the-board to engage in conversations concerning some of our industry's most relevant topics.
Did you know all coffee goes through some sort of fermentation? What?! Yes, it’s true. For this ProDev, we tasted our way through this delicious concept and discussed what it takes to strip coffee cherries down to the seed.

[@communeconnectdotorg]

Nothing like hands on experience and hard work to see what actually is. Living on a farm and processing our own coffee playing with all sorts off ways processing, fermenting, roasting and preparing coffee (espresso) has taught me a lot. From behind a desk it is guessing game, I think. Great video though, thank you for the work and the share 🙏

[@Amselandco]

The descriptions of the processes are incredible. Thank you for putting these ProDev talks together.

[@SeanoHermano]

This is such a fascinating discussion. I keep thinking of new things as I listen. In unpasteurized cheese production, there is a particular type of French cheese which relies on natural bacterial growth in wooden barrels to maintain proper yeast activity in the resulting cheese. This was actually found to be safer than modern stainless steel containers which were regularly sterilized to maintain “cleanliness.” Essentially the good bacteria in the wood out compete with bad bacteria for food, whereas all the bacteria in the stainless steel are killed. Have any coffee growers experimented with intentionally *not* cleaning fermentation tanks so as to benefit specific bacteria and yeast strains? for each variety of coffee? Of course this would require each type of bean to have it’s own tank resulting in increased production costs as well.

[@olsfsodgnb]

Black tea and yeasted breads are both fermented. The starting experiment was basically smelling 4 fermented products.

[@baristasuraj1718]

i m really exciting for your next episode for ethopian heirloom varities

[@SeanoHermano]

I think the resulting flavor from washing and a second fermentation could be compared to the decanting process in wine and beer brewing, which can be used to restart a second or third fermentation after filtering out remaining solids. This process can be used to brighten flavor, while simple extended stays in one container may eventually result is slowed or ceased fermentation after some time.

[@cliffhappy]

For the pH thing, it is a measurement of by-product of fermentation. The amount of by-product should vary differently depending on sugar level, type of micro-orb, etc. As mentioned, pH 4.6 may be the sweet spot. It may be more sensible to obtain the graduation curve of increase in acid, i.e.: anti-log pH against time. When the curve goes almost flat, that's the point of completion. Of coz, provided that people would use such equipment.

[@danirinaldi1044]

For me, by fermenting something is for you to harvest the fermented substance. But for washed coffee, youre just using microbes and solvent to dissolve the mucilage. So, i dont count that as a fermentation of the coffee seed that we consume. But in case of over doing that mucilage dissolving, some of the microbe could seeps into the coffee seeds and causing fermentation. Its all depends on the intention of the producer i think, if it is intended it may be called fermented proccess, if its not than its fair to call that pure washed coffee without fermentation. That is just my logic, maybe other differs. Greetings from Indonesia

[@AlejandroRasmussen7]

Hmmmm I wonder if the water used to ferment the coffee, with all those microbes could be used as a foliar spray for plants to combant leaf rust

[@lukashaizmann7880]

I feel like the examples of the bread and kombucha/black tea aren't really cleverly chosen, since black tea has also undergone a process of fermentation in the process, while sour dough bread and yeast dogh bread are equally fermented differing only in the sort of microbes, time and environment.

[@gerardnidhiry8359]

Well spoken

[@SeanoHermano]

Can green coffee beans (seeds) be consumed? I wonder if the reason we don’t associate the flavor components we normally associate with fermentation, with coffee, might be because the roasting process changes the flavor to a degree that overpowers the natural changes we normally identify with fermented foods. Or rather, roasting changes flavor to a greater degree than fermentation by naturally occurring wild yeasts. The comment about roasting brightening fruity flavors would lead me to believe the opposite might be true for sourness or acidity. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

[@jakobw135]

What about the first fermentation that takes place in the natural process of coffee?

[@OmmieFerguson]

When you reach the 23:00 mark, is really hard to think about what the message of this whole thing is. First of all, no one will use the term "de-mucilage-ation" because there is already a term that describes that action: fermentation. The literal definition of fermentation is "the chemical breakdown of a substance by bacteria, yeasts, or other microorganisms", which is the process the coffee is literally going through. Trying to change the term so kombucha and sauerkraut enthusiasts don't get confused is counterintuitive. Second of all, bread and sourdough bread are both fermented, (commercial) yeast works as a leavening agent BY fermenting the dough. The reason for the acidic flavours in sourdough is precisely the types of yeasts and bacteria in sourdough, not necessarily the fermentation process itself. And on that note, sourdough, tea, and coffee are NOT "fermented foods" in the kimchi-fermented kind of way, nor do they have the probiotics and properties of fermented food. They go through a FERMENTATION PROCESS, which is not the goal but a step to get to its final product. I'm really sorry if I missed the point and please feel free to correct me, but I think 23+ minutes is a lot of wasted time that gets nowhere and can misinform and confuse people that don't have comprehensive knowledge in fermentation or coffee.

[@jamesamerica6205]

Look, what you're looking for is an argument. You raised no valid points/criticisms. Everything you outlined is just what the newbies in the coffee community say, being as snubby as possible as a way of saying that they belong. Sad but not new to see.

[@Brujadel89]

If you wanna try anaerobic coffees check out Aquarela coffee in Los Angeles.

[@SAW_Coffee]

Interesting presentation. I think the de-mucilage-ation term is used to differentiate the fermentation of the mucilage as apposed to the fermentation of the actual coffee bean. There is no carbohydrates or sugars for bacteria to eat on the coffee bean itself so the coffee bean is not directly fermenting, but the mucilage has plenty for the bacteria to eat. Associating the fermentation of sourdough breads, the sugars in the flour is actually being eaten by the bacteria so fermentation is being directly affected on the dough.

[@Our_Patterns]

Upspeak drives me insane

[@Joeadwisen]

22:00 that's what happens when commoners try to speak SCIENCE