PRODIGY BOWLERS TOUR -- 02-15-2020 -- 2020 Thin Mints Open

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

*** PLEASE DO *NOT* POST SPOILERS!!! *** *** PLEASE DO *NOT* POST SPOILERS!!! *** *** PLEASE DO *NOT* POST SPOILERS!!! ***

[@codeehobson]

Ok.

[@bjmorris569]

Love watching these young bowlers. Coach Randy you do an awesome job of keeping things competitive for the young and newer bowlers. They will learn to love the game as I do. Thanks

[@stilltlrforlife]

Hats off to you Randy!! You are one heck of a gentelman and a great person doing this for the kids in this awesome sport!! God Bless and God Speed my friend!!

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

stilltlrforlife - Thank you for those kind words.

[@Liljordyyy619]

The production quality of this channel is insane, much respect coach for what you do for the show and coaching all these young bowlers!!

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

Thank you.

[@ddtalk]

Great idea of giving those two floridians their own pin!! You all are awesome!

[@ronaldshank7589]

That was truly fun to watch! From a 4 year old kid bowling a spare, and telling that he watched and liked the show, to young Josh come from being the 5th seed,to winning the Title, getting to sign the Red Bowling Pin, and winning a box of Girl Scout Cookies! A truly great program, and a truly great show! It's as good as the PBA anyday!!!

[@timmyvanartsdalen5301]

Ronald Shank thanks for the spoiler. If you look at the top of the comment section is says “please don’t post spoilers”

[@josedcarrillo24]

@@timmyvanartsdalen5301 um that's why you should watch the video then view the comments 🤨

[@joshg6410]

By the way, I’m older than Hunter

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

Thanks for the kind remarks. But I do request that you go back in and edit your comment to remove the spoilers. Otherwise, I'll have to delete it.

[@NicolasCramer]

Hey Coach Randy, Another great episode. Thanks for putting it together.

[@motivbowling6944]

I just wanted to say that I love your videos and keep it up

[@ddtalk]

Great swing Christian!!

[@blockcl]

Great show. Always enjoy seeing a breakthrough performance. Regarding the visitors...I don't think I could keep the ball on the lanes when I was four years old, not without the pillows.

[@_thekingdavid_]

8 minutes in and already had liked love seeing how you make stuff special for the kids. keep up the good work.

[@philly24491]

Aiden and that back up ball was impressive. Wow.

[@pzycholeader1374]

Philly jr 2449 thank you

[@johnmeyer5509]

Nice greets from Germany, Berlin. 🎳🇩🇪

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

On the subject of using handicap: Someone posted a comment about it, and then apparently took it down before I had a chance to respond. So let me give my position on the issue of using handicap. First, given a choice, I'd always prefer NOT using handicap. The only times we ever use handicap on PRODIGY are (a.) when there's no other way to give all players in the field a fighting chance to be competitive, or (b.) when we're doing the Roswell Varsity and Junior Varsity league TOC, where the format was established many years before I started taping it and putting it up on PRODIGY. Furthermore, there are times (well, there's ONE time, anyway) when I choose NOT to use handicap even though I know it means that our lesser-skilled players have next to no chance of winning. That instance is the season-ending PRODIGY Tournament of Champions. But I feel that because of the nature of that event (it's our only "Major"), it should be scratch. But in any one of our garden-variety weekly PRODIGY events, I have no real problem dividing the field into a scratch division and a handicap division...IF there are enough kids in each division to make each division viable. On this week's show, we had a grand total of five bowlers. Two of them had averages of 136 and 144. Two others had averages of 201 and 205. Now, you tell me how in the world we could possibly have taken the money from the 136 and 144 average bowlers to let them bowl knowing full well they had virtually no chance to be competitive? I wouldn't have felt right doing that. And having just two kids in a handicap division makes no sense at all. So handicapping the whole field was the only sensible way to go. Which leads to the next question: What formula should we use to handicap the field? There are a lot of options. On this occasion, I opted to do something we'd never done before. We used the USBC's average conversion chart to convert our bowlers' standard league averages to a sport shot average. You can download the chart here: usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/sportbowling/pdfs/SportChallengeStandardConversion.pdf Now, if you look closely at that chart, you will notice something: A player with higher "standard" average sees their average drop more when converting to a sport shot average than a player with a much lower standard average. For example, a 220 standard average drops to 191 when converted to sport. That's a drop of 29 pins. Meanwhile, a player with a standard average of 140 only sees his average drop to 128 when converted to sport. That's a drop of just 12 pins. So in a handicap scenario, the higher average player is going to get more handicap awarded to him when his standard average is converted to sport than he would if we just used his standard average. In the case of Christian Mennell versus Josh Greenberg, if memory serves, I believe Christian's standard average was computed as 205, which converts to 177 when it's converted to sport shot. That's a 28 pin drop. Josh Greenberg's standard league average is 136. There is no 136 average listed in the standard column, so we use 135. When converted to sport, that's 125. So his average drops 11 when converted to sport. If we used the same 90 percent of the difference between their average and 200, Christian would get 0 handicap if we didn't convert to sport and Josh would get 57 pins. A 57-pin differential. But when converted to sport averages, Christian's average of 177 would mean he'd get 11 pins handicap. Josh's sport average of 125 would mean he'd get 58 pins handicap. That's a differential of 47 pins. So by converting to sport shot averages, in this case, the lower average player received 10 FEWER pins in handicap differential. Now, we didn't arrive at exactly these numbers (I'm not sure why....I must not be remembering exactly what averages they were using), but in any case, the point here is that by converting their standard averages to sport shot averages, the lower average player receives a lower handicap differential, REGARDLESS of what percentage handicap we opt to use. Which leads to the question of what is the percentage you want to use to calculate the handicap. We used 90 percent of the difference between their adjusted sport shot average and 200. I thought about using 80 percent of the difference. But it begs the question: What's the point of doing handicap? Are you trying to level the playing field? Or are you only wanting to give the ILLUSION of leveling the playing field while actually putting your thumb on the scale to benefit the more highly skilled player? Because obviously, the lower the percentage, the more it helps the higher average player. Studies I've read say that even if you handicap it at 100% of the difference, the higher average player is still going to win about 55 to 60 percent of the time over the long haul. You have to get the handicap up to around 110% of the difference before you start to see the winning percentage between the two players actually level off at 50-50. But who's going to accept a 110% handicap? No one. So I went with 90. I want to make two more points here: First, I see no difference between Josh Greenberg shooting a 213 scratch his first game while getting 44 pins in handicap differential and a scratch player bowling in his place and shooting a 250 or 260. And don't tell me that wouldn't happen, because in almost every tournament, you'll find one of the top five players uncorking a big game or two in the stepladder. I argue that instead of getting all bent out of shape that a 13-year-old, 136 average bowler shot his lifetime best game against you while you were spotting him 44 pins, what you should be thinking about is that your opponent just shot 260, and you need to beat that score. If you don't, you're beat. It's as simple as that. Handicap had nothing to do with it. If, say, Charlie Bostic had been Christian's opponent, are you telling me that it's inconceivable that Charlie might have thrown a big game like that? Of course it's entirely possible if that had been a scratch player, he might have thrown just such a game. So quit your whining, man up, and bowl a better score. And finally, every time I hear a better player argue that handicap makes it unfair, you wanna know what it says to me? It tells me that the player doing the complaining actually doesn't think he can beat someone if they bowl over their average. And they don't want to play if there's a mechanism in place that gives lesser skilled bowlers a chance to be competitive with them. Look, golf wouldn't be the hugely popular sport it is today if it weren't for its handicap system. I haven't played much golf in recent years, but if I were to go out right now, I would think I could play to somewhere in the area of about 15 or 16 handicap. So with golf's unique handicapping system, I could compete against a tour player and have a fighting chance of winning. And you won't find Rory McIlroy complaining about golf's handicap system. Similarly, bowling's handicapping system would allow a lesser skilled player to have a chance to beat the likes of Jason Belmonte. Over the long haul, Belmo would win most matches. But 140-average Billy Bob Bowler might win one or two games out of 10. And he'd almost certainly win if he shot the game of his life, as Josh did in our first match today. And that's how it should be. Unless you just think bowlers of lesser skill levels shouldn't be given handicap at all and they ought to be left to fend for themselves against players who are clearly much better. In such a case, I would guess you're also not in favor of throwing someone a life vest if they're drowning in the water. I don't subscribe to that kind of thinking.

[@Dottman56]

By god LMAO

[@joshnate1306]

BrownswickBowling uh how long did that take you to type 😂

[@stilltlrforlife]

Christian has one heck of a textbook delivery for a power player...wow

[@timmyvanartsdalen5301]

First time watching prodigy since the Christmas episode. It seems like Christian has made some improvements in his stance and that high back swing. He’s going to be a star one day if he continues bowling

[@cinnamoncrunch8765]

yes being good at tennis helps bowling. I'm good at tennis and bowl well. It helps with ball placement,aiming,and angle

[@travoncordova7798]

It's been awhile but nice video Josh really bowled great he was staying behind the ball he wasn't on the side of it or nothing somebody must have really been coaching him for awhile.

[@joshg6410]

Thank you

[@nolankemp01]

Fyi never ate any girl Scout cookies that day or ever in my life.

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

Nolan Kemp - You don’t know what you’re missing. :-)

[@joshg6410]

I hadn’t either (until that day)

[@rebornbyfate534]

I have been bowling a lot lately. I average 147. I went Monday and I bowled a disastrous four games. 121-103-111-118. Very Bad! I don't know how I should adjust to a lane when I put the ball out almost to the gutter, it still don't make the pocket. I even tried speeding up the ball but it did not help. Any advice for adjusting to a lane where the ball hooks way too much?

[@nickbrost3342]

What kind of ball are you using? Are you bowling on a typical house shot? Are the lanes freshly oiled? Are you rolling or throwing your ball?

[@rebornbyfate534]

Well, I throw a 10lb ebonite.

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

Keep your hand behind the ball, not so much around the side of it. You'll end up with a more controllable hook.

[@rebornbyfate534]

@@ProdigyBowlersTour Thanks, I went today and I bowled a 145-167-167. My average went up two pins.

[@SirJoelsuf1]

1:22:35 - 1:23:40. There NEEDS to be a movie about this.

[@kamronmorris7235]

nice vid

[@RamsayShearer]

Randy I love watching PRoDiGY bowers tour and can I come to prodigy bowers tour i will take my bowling ball and I will take my bowling wipe for my bowling ball

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

The PRODIGY YOU TOUR doesn't require you to travel to Atlanta to be on the show. You can record a match at your own home center. But it must conform to PRODIGY production standards. Download the info packet at www.prodigybowlerstour.com (click on the "YouTour" link at the top). That .pdf file contains everything you need to know.

[@jeramiescott3364]

Hey coach, I also use that figure 8 style. Does he push away to the left towards his slide foot? I got that from a kegel video, Due to so physical health issues I can't do a cross overstep. It has really helped me keep everything inline.

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

Jeramie Scott - I tell him to push away toward the inside of his right knee or his belt buckle. (If he wore a belt.). The trick to making this work is you have to swing your shoulders open in the backswing and square ‘em back up for the release. I could write a whole chapter on how all that should work.

[@joshnate1306]

(Chris nathenson) Good job josh

[@joshg6410]

Thanks

[@joshnate1306]

josh g no problem you did good

[@liambaker2215]

21:48 uhm, coach, I think you should check the math on that, I think 260-44=216 and not 214. Just wanted to throw that out there and don’t take it as hate

[@oscarbowler-boy9916]

You are Indeed correct because I did the math ages ago and I came up with the same answer.

[@michaellester2679]

Full stomach, I here ya. I need a do-si-do intervention myself.

[@SirJoelsuf1]

I used to have a similar issue as Noah. Only I would do what the "helicopter" bowlers in Japan do, throw it like 450 RPMs but spin it completely like a top lol...would leave 5 pins like crazy lol

[@norevbowling]

What type of oil is on the lanes??

[@joshg6410]

This week the pattern was the sportshot, Paris

[@myfluid7912]

Why do people get handicapped?

[@hestwrld2387]

43:25

[@oscarbowler-boy9916]

What about it?

[@nailitdown219]

Im not sure if this is a spoiler but on lane 32 i still see the setter rack saying "We ❤ Birthdays"

[@mvbowling8483]

I would shoot my 4-5-7’s like I’m pretty much going for the 7 pin. The 4 pin would then take down the 5. Also Josh,Christian, And Hunter have really improved their games this season.

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

You won't make many that way.

[@mitzelnation78]

BrownswickBowling no kidding.

[@timmyvanartsdalen5301]

Noticed something with josh. When he got frustrated he didn’t take his time to visualize his next shot

[@joshg6410]

Thanks for pointing this out to me

[@zaythebowler]

What is Hunter’s high game because he bowls really well for his age

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

He recently bowled three 279 games, each one about a week apart from the other. He's still looking for his first 300. But he's now had those three 11-strike games. One of them included the front nine.

[@zaythebowler]

@@ProdigyBowlersTour Wow that’s good, I’m 11 and I have had the front nine and shot 279, almost had the last 10 and shot 277 in league, and on January 25 in practice I threw my first 300, and aside from that I have probably somewhere between 10 and 20 250 games

[@unknowndrxbbles]

you should have gave josh a different handicap lead have him earn the win no hate because i love watching your webcasts and i want to be on one one its just i live in florida

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

The new PRODIGY YOU TOUR show does not require that you come to Atlanta. You can film your own matches and send the footage to me and I'll turn it into an episode. All you have to do is conform to the PRODIGY standards set forth in a document that I've put online for anyone to download. Go to www.prodigybowlerstour.com and click on the "YouTour" link at the top. It'll take you to a page where there's a link that lets you download a .pdf file containing all the info you need.

[@nathanprater8430]

Where has Tristian Davis been?

[@joshnate1306]

Nathan Prater he's out of town

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

Nathan Prater - He was at the Georgia All Stars tournament. See PRAoDIGZy Striking News segment after the Championship match.

[@joshg6410]

Correction that was my past best game, got 233 today

[@TNLazer]

Good job josh

[@joshg6410]

correction that my past best game, got 235 earlier this week

[@zaythebowler]

@@joshg6410 was it a sanctioned game or practice?

[@joshg6410]

@@zaythebowler practice

[@rebornbyfate534]

What's Josh's average?

[@joshg6410]

Wow🙁, my average is 141

[@JonathanMerlinSymmank]

Josh is not little anymore!

[@joshg6410]

Thanks

[@joshg6410]

You are the first person to ever say that to me

[@JonathanMerlinSymmank]

josh g good to know, Josh. U improved your game big time! Keep up the good work! BTW, was that the Phaze 2 from Storm you were using when this video was recorded?

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

josh g - What are you doing up so late on a school night?

[@joshnate1306]

BrownswickBowling randy, I don't know about josh but it's winter break for me

[@elizabethbechstein6490]

I’m 10 and no offense to Josh but I could probably beat him but I’m jealous of him because he is a lot luckier than me in bowling for example yesterday in my after school bowling I left about 5 solid eight pins and another in league an hour later and then I see Josh bowling lucky strike after lucky strike which is kind of annoying but Josh did good and good luck too all the prodigy bowlers. Also which I might not have been listening if you answered the question I’m about to ask but how old is Josh and has Josh ever gotten 6 strikes in a row. How heavy is Josh’s bowling ball and How heavy is Hunter’s bowling ball and what bowling balls do Hunter and Josh use

[@ProdigyBowlersTour]

If you're so sure you could beat him (I hear that a lot from over-confident viewers), why don't you get your butt down here to Atlanta and show us what you've got. As so many kids have found out the hard way, winning on PRODIGY may not be quite as easy as it might appear.

[@rebornbyfate534]

What do you average?

[@droksbeel]

That was quite an oxymoron

[@elizabethbechstein6490]

I average about 150 to 160 so if I had some luck I think I could have a decent chance against josh but it would really depend on what oil pattern it is especially for Josh because I can do really good on a house shot, and if the lanes are dry I can do really well. I haven’t really bowled almost at all on heavy oil patterns but I have a heavy oil ball that hooks so much I’ve never bowled on a oil pattern where I needed it even in a nine pin no tap tournament that was a modified house shot

[@joshg6410]

Hi, I (Josh) am 13 and I use a Strike King 12 pound, (this is what I was using for my strikes balls) a 13 pound Pitch Black, (I didn't use this in prodigy that week) a 10 pound Columbia 300 (didn't use in prodigy that week) 12 pound Mix (didn't use in prodigy that week) and a 10 Mix that I was using for my spares.

[@tomy5868]

mom, why do I have arthritis in my elbow and shoulder? (no thumb and you are not done growing yet).