Production Hell - Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

[@TheCriticalDrinker]

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[@CaucAsianSasquatch]

Right, so full agreement, "The Final Frontier" is the bastard child of the Franchise

[@elgoblinocoolio4378]

OI M8! I agree but the final frontier is still better than whatever the Hell passes for Star Trek nowadays.

[@ravensnflies8167]

dk if this is the place for this but could you do a vid on the movie "Ruthless People" please? my grandmother is old and its her favorite movie of all time and it would be a perfect sendoff.

[@kennylong653]

One thing against Star Trek V the Final Frontier was it came out during the Summer of 89 which was so loaded with movies, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Batman, Karate Kid 3, Ghostbusters 2, UHF just to name a few. But yeah it's the weakest of the Original Star Trek movies. Luv your channel Drinker!

[@tyvamakes5226]

Where's Fant4stic production hell, drinker?

[@theanimeslayer3999]

Kirks speech; "Damn it, Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!" Brilliant, its shame we cannot have dialogue like this anymore!

[@PHDiaz-vv7yo]

I read this in it’s original Shatner

[@The_Persiflager]

Always a good sign when the director of your movie comes on screen and tells you that the plot doesn't work.

[@rodofiron100]

One of the best lines in any star trek ever

[@kohaiame2691]

These two people; "then your awesome" and "YTr Cretor" keep spamming the same link all over the comment section.

[@fattiger6957]

At least there are moments of brilliance like that in the movie. I always interpreted Kirk's pain as the loss of his son and all the time he could never get back with him. And that follows through into the next movie as the reason why he hates Klingons so much. (another reason why Generations sucks so much, because Kirk's paradise would to have the life he missed)

[@FatNorthernBigot]

Classic Star Trek is like Pizza. Even when it's bad, you can still enjoy it.

[@mars___sumner]

TNG is Trek at its best, but best Trek is DS9

[@Zathren]

Never even seen classic Star Trek but this is a very good analogy.

[@novadust6195]

If the crust is burned on Woodfired pizza, it's even better OG star trek is like oven baked pizza

[@FatNorthernBigot]

@Villiam Hofgaard... Anchovies.

[@FatNorthernBigot]

@@novadust6195 Star Trek V is supermarket pizza, but put a little extra cheese on it, and you're all set. (Star Trek V had a lot of extra cheese)

[@Neon002121]

Rough as this one is, there’s a noble effort and an interesting idea under the mess. I’ll take that any day over the creative husk of new trek.

[@gimmeboobes]

When "Lower Decks" is your high water mark, and the Drekkies saying, "See? Its still good!"

[@kohaiame2691]

Don't click on the link. Report for spam.

[@fattiger6957]

At least there was interesting ideas behind this movie. Shatner didn't succeed, but at least he tried. Modern Trek is just dumb action that is slick and may look cool, but there are no ideas behind it. Just sound and thunder signifying nothing.

[@ScotsThinker]

Well said

[@tigerbread78]

Final Frontier > Motion Picture >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nu-Trek

[@fuzzo73]

The campfire scene is still the best part for me. "It's a song, ya green blooded-- the words aren't important, what matters is having a good time!" "- Are we having a....good time?" "Oh Christ Jim, I liked him better before he died!"

[@mehereyouthere4828]

“I couldn’t help but notice your pain…my pain?…yes, it runs deep share it with me” love that line, one of the best lines from Star Trek, even Tupac realized it’s greatness and he used it at the beginning of Pain.

[@electrictroy2010]

Tupuc? Beginning of Pain? What are you talking about?

[@jamesrutherford1475]

@@electrictroy2010 It's sampled in the intro to one of his best songs, "Pain" kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqLEaJqrnbqliNk

[@KainBlake]

Tbf, compared to modern Star Trek this looks more like a gem in the rough

[@ScotsThinker]

Well said m8

[@meatpuppet5036]

Yup, its got soul, from the original era. NuTrek is just corporate product run by hacks and made for Twitter audiences.

[@FatNorthernBigot]

I don't think that's fair... Some of us find drug-addled lesbians throwing up, whilst swearing at Picard to be very much in the optimistic narrative of Star Trek.

[@ForceMaximus84]

It’s certainly better than Into Darkness.

[@demonkingbadger6689]

To be fair, compared to new trek, most if us have pooped gems in the rough.

[@johnochiltree1170]

But it has the greatest Kirk line ever. ‘Excuse me. What does god need with a starship?’

[@ShumaiAxeman]

It's got it's decent moments, though they're few and far apart. I was always fond of the "I need my pain" speech.

[@happiness1772]

One of Spock's best lines too. "Please Captain, not in front of the Klingons."

[@mikeyh0]

Or "You're asking God for an ID?" I think that was Bones.

[@TheSchaef47]

And one of Sulu's best lines: "Actually, this is my first time."

[@manurr10]

He died for the sins of the Starship.

[@garym6315]

The scene with McCoy euthanizing his father was the standout moment in the movie. DeForest's acting in that scene is amazing, and the real suckerpunch is when he delivers that line about the cure. 😭

[@JulianSirian]

Not going to lie... that was real brutal to watch... the most brutal, non-bloody thing I have seen in Hollywood... And yet, a simple scene on the surface... Brilliant acting...

[@fredafelcher1]

I always loved bones

[@OctoberCrow1701]

DeForrest nailed that scene.

[@Greg-lo1tl]

@@JulianSirian "Oh my God, don't do this to me!" Yeah, that did indeed hit hard. Given the choice to revisit the most impactful moments in our lives, we'd never choose moments like deaths of loved ones, that's for sure.

[@nutcakeman1944]

It was a great scene. But as I recall De Kelly was nominated for a Golden Raspberry for worst supporting actor based on that scene

[@carlh-thehermitwithwi-fi679]

"I am well versed in the clasics, Doctor." "Then how come you don't know 'row row row your boat'? I think everyone in the room i was watching it laughed...because it was just perfect.

[@orionslaver432]

Despite its legitimately criticised flaws, I always felt that STV had a great deal of heart that elevated it above the sum of its mediocre parts. Even though the supporting cast are underutilised, what we see of them is wonderfully handled, and the dynamic between Kirk, Spock and McCoy is absolutely spot on (in my opinion). And having a chance to see these beloved characters spending time together in their time off was just a joy.

[@redeemer66666]

The scene with McCoy's father sells this movie for me. The movie is practically a meme, but that scene was great.

[@DannerusMaximus]

I'm actually going to go a step further than that and say the entire observation deck segment was on point. There's some deep stuff in those scenes.

[@wjzav1971]

Me, personally, I lked them sitting at the campfire at Yosemite. It was a nice moment showcasing their deep friendship.

[@nadparvez1361]

Yes that scene with McCoy and his father was very powerful and done so well.

[@fattiger6957]

There are a few genuinely good scenes in the movie that redeem it from being completely terrible. It's not like modern Trek which is all 100% garbage.

[@JustaGuy_Gaming]

This movie was a bunch of scenes that while some what good on their own don't really go together at all. The main plot of Finding god is the weakest part of the whole movie.

[@thomasdodd2548]

“Have they gone too far” on the movie poster is peak irony

[@danialyousaf6456]

Ikr.

[@radgegadgeinmateek]

HAH! Coosty

[@BoleDaPole]

Ok normie

[@gameking8809]

@@BoleDaPole what is it with you calling everyone "normie"?

[@jca4la]

@@gameking8809 cause they're Abby?

[@stonebaxter]

I've said it before: STAR TREK V is great if you accept that it is... _literally_ ...an episode of the 1960's TV show given a movie production budget. That's all. God-like being, focus on The Big Three, odd-hued sky of an alien world, down on the planet fist-fights, etc. It's William Shatner's love-letter to TOS.

[@f1jones544]

And all that's why it's my favorite of all the ST movies.

[@varanid9]

Damn, I never looked at it that way, but, you're absolutely right.

[@luchomscyfy]

In a way, it is. Besides the allegory of the preacher being horrified of the dark nature of his " God", it's a nice irony. In a sense, Sybok have good intentions, just the "creature" was evil and manipulative. And he ended sacrificing for the heroes. So, it's not bad at all.

[@spudeleven5124]

That's a very good way of looking at it. Had not considered this angle before. Thanks for your remarks!

[@commandercaptain4664]

It's too much like "The Way to Eden", the worst classic episode of all. Why not remake "The Ultimate Computer" or "Balance of Terror" instead?

[@JoeLeasure]

Dude, I LOVED that imperfect mess as a kid. The effects were obviously cheesy, but the ambition of the whole thing really made it endearing even if it clearly fell short.

[@Dowlphin]

Yeah, I didn't understand the extreme reactions either. It was still quite enjoyable Trek. Maybe I don't have that mind that expects things to get endlessly better or stay at top performance ever reached. I am also an Original Motion Picture enjoyer.

[@wjec1970]

I have to admit my love for TMP and Final Frontier...warts and all. Who doesn't love Sybok and his disappearing mullet?😂 I'm being completely honest here!

[@jamesp8164]

I didn’t realize Shatner’s original idea was so expansive. It really had potential.

[@tcschenks]

Shatner’s later Star Trek novels also had some batshit crazy stuff, although I understand that someone else did most of the writing.

[@madmojo-im6jz]

Definitely sounds like a good idea need to remake it Kelvin universe strange new world don't care just make it happen

[@electrictroy2010]

Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies hit the constraint. Shatner failed .

[@Dowlphin]

Should have turned it into a TV series: "The Expense". 😆

[@jeremywerner9489]

@@electrictroy2010Indeed, you can't even really claim Paramount was being 'unfair' to Star Trek V by short-changing them on the production budget, by the numbers it actually ended up being 7-8 million dollars more expensive than Star Trek IV.

[@bosborn1]

Without 5 we wouldn’t have 6. Undiscovered Country was a masterpiece of trek. Even with the reduced budget they made that movie look and feel amazing.

[@bosborn1]

@Yeah Right Two is my favorite. Six is my second. I loved the concept of Klingon intellectuals.

[@Ozymandias1]

It was a political allegory about the fall of the Eastern Bloc and the two sides trying to come together, with opposition from elements of both sides. It played out just as our real history played out.

[@richardmalcolm1457]

With UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY they had Nicholas Meyer and a good script. That more than compensated for the reduced budget.

[@death-king1834]

@Lodogg 3323 And a pretty good send off for Kirk himself. Until they ruined it a couple years later with Generations and killed his character off in the dumbest way possible.

[@keedybrown2007]

@Lodogg 3323 "You haven't read Shakespeare until you've read it in IT'S ORIGINAL Klingon", is the actual line. Look it up.

[@Samdecker23]

That part when Kirk makes that speech about needing his pain not wanting it taken away as it makes him who he is 10/10

[@nickblack2006]

Shatner killed it in that scene

[@fattiger6957]

There are scenes like that and his reaction to David's death in Search for Spock that prove that Shatner is a genuinely good actor. This whole revisionist idea that he was never a good actor are complete bs.

[@ScotsThinker]

@@fattiger6957 The thing about Shatner is that he is a talented actor yet primarily, he is a well-trained Theatrical Actor. I've worked in Theatre before and I guarantee you, exaggerated movements and projected vocals are required to reach the audience at the back of the Theatre. When it comes to anything filmed however, the exaggeration is not needed as much since people can catch onto the subtle expressions, especially if the camera is brought up close to the actor(s). A lot of people point out Shatner's apparent overacting throughout his career and it's mainly due to his theatrical experiences. Still, Shatner is still a talent to behold.

[@stevenscott2136]

When he's doing a small-scale scene, like talking to McCoy in his quarters, he loses the theatrical manner, and you can see him "being" Kirk instead of "playing" Kirk.

[@tulinfirenze1990]

Except we already learned that about him in "The Enemy Within", more than twenty years before.

[@Scott.Sandifer]

The delivery of the line: _”What does God need with a starship?”_ almost makes everything worth it.

[@0ntimetaiment921]

Yes. I have repressed most of my memory of the movie. But I remember thinking the ending was as good a resolution to the story as could be hoped for.

[@thurin84]

so does "you dont ask GOD for his ID!"

[@Vandervecken]

Sulu and Chekhov being lost is what makes the whole thing worth it to me. Just hysterical stuff.

[@varanid9]

And Kirk saying he needs his pain. And McCoy's flash-back scene. And.....damn, maybe this movie is pretty good after all.

[@commandercaptain4664]

For every moment like this, there were too many moments that brought me back to despair. A photon torpedo doesn't kill Fake God, but a Bird of Prey phaser (sounding like a TIE Fighter cannon) does??????

[@01What10]

I still love the speech Kirk gives about "needing his pain" something that many of us forget. Our pain and suffering is what tempered us into the beings we are today. Those of us that use that pain rather than falling to it become even stronger because of it.

[@MrFox-rf3cu]

All of that is taken away when this latest generation were given 'participation trophies' instead of learning how to deal with a game loss. They never learned how to deal with pain and suffering, so we have the mess in our society today as a result.

[@mattyboyanderson]

Something about the haggard man in the very beginning saying "It's all I have", regarding a hole in an endless wasteland, always shook me to my core.

[@frank7268]

“Production Hell” is an amazing series. You should make more because they are very interesting and entertaining

[@NashmanNash]

I wouldn´t exactly call Star Trek V a production Hell though...Noone went insane,acted only on drugs,tried to run for it...

[@danielhenderson8316]

That's why we need Heaven's Gate!

[@SheldonAdama17]

I love the Apocalypse Now one.

[@dangerdan2592]

@@SheldonAdama17 I like the Island of Doctor moreau one too. Especially the part about Marlon Brando being obsessed with the dwarf.

[@Arcania9516]

​@@dangerdan2592 I like that one too.

[@jdraven0890]

As rough as it was, the character interaction between Bones, Spock, and Kirk was outstanding, and made me realize that is one of the best things about classic ST.

[@jkdbuck7670]

And that's what's missing from JJ Trek. When "Kirk" died, I felt nothing. Now, when I was a little boy and watched The Wrath of Khan, I was sad and misty-eyed when Spock died saving the Enterprise and all those aboard. I've heard that there wasn't a dry eye in the theater.

[@JJ-eb4tx]

Futurama said it best: Nimoy: When I directed Star Trek IV, I got a magnificent performance out of Bill because I respected him so much. Shatner: And when I directed Star Trek V, I got a magnificent performance out of me, because I respected me so much!

[@TheSchaef47]

My second favorite joke in all of Futurama. We are, after all, talking about a guy who wrote a TNG novel just to resurrect himself from Generations.

[@0verkill161]

@@TheSchaef47 hell, I would too. Kirks death in that dud was the equivalent of Jackie Chan (hypothetically) dying in a pillow fight.

[@stevenscott2136]

@@0verkill161 Pro wrestlers call that "jobbing" -- allowing another guy (typically a newbie) to make a fool of you so that he can establish a reputation. Sadly, not even necessary in this case, as Stewart's work on TNG certainly stood on its own just fine.

[@harrambou9468]

@0verkill161 Idk why everyone hates Generations so much

[@maingun07]

@@0verkill161 The problem is that in that novel (and I use that word loosely), Kirk comes back and beats every TNG character at his own game including beating Worf in a bat'leth duel and out logic-ing Data. They were power fantasies. Shatner turned Kirk into a Mary Sue, which is ironic in that the original Mary Sue was a tongue in cheek fan-fic set on the original Enterprise.

[@richardgarner2510]

"I couldn't help but notice your pain" "My pain?" "It runs deep, share it with me!"

[@stevesoldwedel]

"I need my pain!"

[@malmurchison3458]

I always wondered where that audio had came from when I listened to Tupac's song called "pain" until I finally saw this film. I actually enjoyed it.

[@richardgarner2510]

@malmurchison3458 yes exactly the same with me, took me a while to get the song on mp3 but I was very happy when I got it

[@Victor-dm4qv]

Say what you will, this is a movie I enjoyed a lot with my favorite quote. "I don't want my pain taken away, I need my pain!" Even as a child, I understood the message of that scene and it stuck with me.

[@electrictroy2010]

Yes children are more intelligent than we give them credit for. Especially as they become teenagers

[@johntabler349]

That scene is as good as any in the franchise

[@pfmcdermott1]

The scene in the brig is pretty classic. Kirk: “I should knock you on your god damn ass!” Spock: “if you think that would help.” Bones: “Do you want me to hold him Jim?”

[@koppsr]

Honestly one of my all-time favorite moments in Star Trek.

[@f1jones544]

And that's exactly what Abrams' Star Trek lacked, instead making it a buddy movie and putting McCoy into the background.

[@Craxin01]

@@f1jones544 Abrams' version of Star Trek lacked one thing, and one thing only. FUCKING STAR TREK! It had NO real Star Trek feel to it.

[@kahemingway88]

XD Scenes like this are why I love TOS the most. Nothing beats the OG Kirk, Spock and McCoy dynamic.

[@davidharrison3711]

Other memorable quotes from "Star Trek V": "What does God need with a starship?"....."I liked him (Spock) better before he died", and "Row, Row Row your Boat........"

[@lancebaylis3169]

I will say this: it's a hundred percent more Star Trek than anything produced in the franchise's name over the last ten years.

[@lukestrawwalker]

ABSOLUTELY!!! SUCH a shame what these modern NO TALENT HACKS have done to a beloved franchise... OL J R :)

[@lancebaylis3169]

Who knew that the Star Trek franchise itself would end up being the one wearing the Red Shirt, and burning up in orbit like the Enterprise in Star Trek 3? 🤔

[@wefinishthisnow3883]

Employing unqualified hacks like Alex Kurtzman will do that.

[@Whiteboykun]

Motherfucking SpongeBob SquarePants is more Star Trek than anything produced in the last ten years

[@haileyshannon7548]

Ok Boomer

[@MacStoker]

"I NEED MY PAIN" no line better anywhere than that

[@guyincognito.]

TNG's 'Tapestry' revisited this idea somewhat.

[@farseerflore9512]

Blade Runners tears on the rain disagrees.

[@jkdbuck7670]

Nah. "Double dumbass on you!" from Star Trek IV is the greatest line.

[@JohnS-il1dr]

The all time greatest line in star trek: "Brain brain, what is brain!!"

[@jimgrant8960]

I would love to see a directors cut of this with CG effects. It's one of the greatest Star Trek stories and was a joy to watch. It needs love and then a fresh look.

[@electrictroy2010]

CGI might help sell the God portion near the end, but I doubt it. The pacing is off. (There’s also a fundamental flaw: The center of the galaxy is a black hole. No starship can go there.) Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies fit the constraint. Shatner failed .

[@johntabler349]

​@@electrictroy2010the director's cut of the motion picture really fixes most of the pacing issues, PS good cut and paste on the comment pt 2

[@apreviousseagle836]

The "What does God need with a starship" is a great line, but not enough credit to what follows afterward which is just awesome: "Jim! you don't ask the almighty for his ID!"

[@donxavier10]

The sad thing is that this movie contains, what I consider, one of the best scenes in the entire original cast film franchise. That scene is the one around the campfire. There is no action. No explosions. It's just three friends chatting around the fire. It's simple but it f$#king works!

[@rodofiron100]

Row row row your boat gently down the stream..... Captain life is NOT a dream. Go to sleep Spock.

[@lapastilladejulio]

I always remember that scene. It's like a treasure in your heart.

[@docsavage8640]

Oh, so you haven't seen any Star Trek then?

[@donxavier10]

@@docsavage8640 wow, right out the gate with a snarky response? C'mon, man! Keep it civil. I said "one of the best scenes" not THE best.

[@donxavier10]

@kevin barker not true at all. Spock cared a great deal for his shipmates. The episode "Amok Time" is a great example of this.

[@prisonerofthehighway1059]

There is one thing about the last decade that I find positive. It’s taught me that a lot of “bad” movies I watched growing up, could’ve been a hell of a lot worse lol.

[@mattyboyanderson]

Even in something terrible like Howard The Duck, you could see plentiful evidence that the people involved tried their best. Even Tank Girl had real effort and care, and that movie didn't have an ending, it just became a cartoon short with awful Hole music. But neither of those flawed films treated their audience with contempt. We didn't hear any self-righteous speeches about male inferiority from Lori Petty, Naomi Watts or Lea Thompson. (Funny thing; their stars never "fell", either. Watts only continued to rise. Amazing what happens when you appreciate your successes and endure your failures with aplomb.) Every single one of these mega-turkeys that craps out in the past decade, the makers blame the audience instead of themselves. They find or fabricate some angry fans to "justify" their failure and pretend the deck was somehow stacked against them. If anyone blames them, they condescend in response and say "it was a job, you need a reality check". Film people of yesteryear had real character and love for what they did. Film people of today only care about maintaining their safe place in The Bubble. They earn nothing, and then whine that the audience didn't give them a fair shake. Beyond pathetic.

[@Lonovavir]

That's because in the past people cared about telling a story. Even if they failed hey at least they hit the effort button. Now too many movies and series are about preaching the message as the drinker calls it. Storytelling isn't even an afterthought.

[@tsnophaljakarax9963]

Man, we need more filmmakers like Joel Schumacher (RIP) He knew when he fucked up Batman and Robin and apologised for it. But then again, Twitter wasn't invented then, so who knows how it would've gone down...

[@mattyboyanderson]

@@tsnophaljakarax9963 Plus he gave the world Falling Down

[@tsnophaljakarax9963]

@@mattyboyanderson true. That film was great.

[@The_Persiflager]

Fortunately, they learned their lesson, and no Star Trek property ever used a heretofore unseen relative of Spock ever again.

[@kevins4213]

Highly underrated comment

[@fuqjuetube882]

Lol

[@urmeli0815]

I love ST-V ... for me it was never about spectacular special effects, it was about heart and chemistry between the characters ... and Final Frontier has a ton of that.

[@electrictroy2010]

It didn’t get the buddy-buddy relationship correct. It woundup being boring

[@hobbs1701a]

Drinker! I am a second generation Star Trek fan. I saw this film in theaters when I was like 12 or 13! I must say, I knew nearly 99% of the facts that you put in your video. Great breakdown of Star Trek V! There were some wonderful scenes and character moments no doubt! It had such great potential, but just could not put it all together! Sad. P.S. This is my fourth drink of the night!! I dedicate it you Drinker! Carry on!

[@scribbles1424]

Shatner's idea isn't bad. Star trek has explored some aspects of Religion and God like entities like Q. I think it needed to be fit more into Trek but it's unique and ambitious.

[@dawsonlucas369]

It would’ve worked had they just used metaphors/ symbolism to tell the story

[@koppsr]

Wrong time plus the heavy handedness about Christianity instead of religion in general.

[@KelsonArwhi]

IMO Deep Space Nine nailed the subject perfectly, particularly with the conundrum over the Prophets (or "wormhole aliens"). Atheist says "super powerful, non-corporeal alien that appears to exist outside time" Theist says "God"

[@KelsonArwhi]

@@koppsr Really more unitarian considering the false "God" entity portrayed himself as "one voice, many faces" and all the represented races present had their own perceptions of what the planet was. Kinda like when Kosh revealed his true self at the end of Babylon 5 season 3, and each race present saw him as the specific image the Vorlons had seeded into that race's religious culture.

[@larrytate28]

Completely agree. Like The Drinker says, there are a lot of good things to be found in the film, it just doesn't gel together as a whole. Beyond that, I found the Sybok character intriguing and the overall story had promise. The problem is that a movie like this, especially a Star Trek movie, had to go big or just stop. Compromised Trek due to budget constraints and poor effects is just more disappointing for what could have been. You can see the same results by watching various episodes from Season 3 of the TOS.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

Honestly the idea of a Sci-Fi film where the characters are literally looking for God is an interesting idea in theory. The problem is you need a lot and I mean a LOT of thought into the story in order to properly stick the landing.

[@Dash-lx4ng]

Yeah Christianity or God's and sci fi are 2 things that I have never seen done well and when they do gell it's just barely.

[@lukecox6317]

@@Dash-lx4ng a faithful adaptation of C. S. Lewis's Space Trilogy would be fun though, though the science in the novels was a little light and the planets deliberately not an exact match to how they really are.

[@pauperslament3467]

You simply need read the bible.

[@lukestrawwalker]

Well, Roddenberry's idea was a retread of a script he'd been trying to sell Paramount on since "The Motion Picture"... some sort of time-travel story where they go back to Dealy Plaza in 1963 and manage to stop the Kennedy assassination, but it puts the universe into a tailspin so they have to "undo" what they did because if Kennedy lived it would have changed all of history. Basically a film treatment of "City on the Edge of Forever" (which was Harlan Ellison's script, so basically a retread of his work). Paramount never would go for it despite Gene Roddenberry pushing for it several times. Guess they figured it would cost too much to produce, the script would be problematic, and the ending would be unsatisfying to the moviegoers... SO they decided to go with Shatner's "The Enterprise gets hijacked by a televangelist who manages to brainwash the entire crew to go look for God in the center of the galaxy"... GO FIGURE!!! OL J R :)

[@vonfaustien3957]

Can't rember the name if it but I read a short story once about the crew of a colony ship returning to earth after the planet they were meant to settle was uninhabitable and finding the Christian Rapture happened well they were gone leaving earth empty. one of the crew members goes mad because he missed his chance to go to heaven and tries to kill the other crew members so they can see God and tell him to come back and get them. It was intresting if nothing else

[@cbspock1701]

The book written by Shatner's daughter was very interesting, documenting the making of Trek 5. It was not good there were so many unforeseen production issues especially on the hangar deck set. Although the movie is very flawed it is fun, and there is that awesome scene with the big three, sharing their pain, what an outstanding scene McCoy gets.

[@lukestrawwalker]

Yeah Shatner's books "Star Trek Memories" about the original TV show and his life afterwards, and the follow-on "Star Trek Movie Memories" details the production issues and themes of all the original cast movies... including ST5 and all the problems he had with it. OL J R: )

[@commandercaptain4664]

Unpopular opinion: The movie is IMMENSELY quotable, and Shatner directed it rather well (at least the shooting side of it). McCoy's scene with his father is one of the most gripping parts I've ever seen in a Trek story. Inarguable opinion: Jerry Goldsmith's Trek scores are classics. 8:11 You forgot to mention all the movie's need to outjoke Trek IV.

[@bluevioletandlilac]

I agree that the part with McCoy and his father was compelling. Really, all the flashbacks were pretty good.

[@Great_Wall_of_Text]

"What does God need...with a starship?" Quotable indeed. I still ask this question every other month or so.

[@shawnn7502]

I say "I don't want to lose my pain. I NEED my pain." all the time as well.

[@ronaldpaterni5081]

Thanks! I was at a Star Trek convention, just before 5, with James Doohan as the special guest. I remember some Paramount guy speaking about 5, and yeah, I remember him mentioning about more comedy. Also, I mean, there was the paradise planet episode in the old series, so maybe 5’s plot was plausible? You could also contrast Star Trek 5 with Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, though Vol. 2 probably had more budget. Yeah, 5 is pretty bad, but still watchable, I guess. We then got The Undiscovered Country, which was great!

[@electrictroy2010]

Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies hit the constraint. Shatner failed .

[@jasonpadula4916]

Star Trek V was among the handful of movies we owned on VHS when I was growing up. I watched it many times over. The opening scene with the soundtrack was always very pleasant to me. The camping scene highlighted the cost of a life of service toward something greater to one’s own life. I really appreciated that. DeForest Kelley absolutely knocked that whole sequence of reliving his deepest pain out of the f’ing park!!

[@endorbr]

“The rest of the cast started causing problems when they realized they’d been relegated to glorified extras.” Um… honestly, aside from Kirk, Spock and McCoy the rest of the cast were always glorified extras.

[@deborahblackvideoediting8697]

Yes, sad but true! That's one of the things that surprised and delighted me when TNG first came on the air. Picard was clearly the lead, but it was definitely far more of an ensemble series than TOS. But I can see how the supporting cast in The Final Frontier would have been disappointed compared to The Voyage Home, where every character was given something interesting to do.

[@flankspeed]

@@deborahblackvideoediting8697 In Khan, Chekov gets a good amount of screen time as he's brainwashed, but poor Uhura just gets, "You are ordered to surrender your vessel, please respond." AND she gets blanked :0/

[@deborahblackvideoediting8697]

@@flankspeed - Is that all she gets in Khan? Wow. I'm glad they gave her more to do in later movies!

[@jasonschlierman412]

Yes, but that was starting to change in the movies. This was more pure TOS than the four previous films.

[@HeroQuestFans]

and the much maligned "spock's brain" is the episode in which every member of the main crew gets their 2 cents in. most episodes do focus on the big three with Scotty or Uhura sometimes getting more to do. we like the cast, but that's how they were written

[@EmperorJim]

This was actually the first movie I ever saw in the theaters, at five years old. It's funny, because it's really not a good Trek movie at all, but it got me hooked for life, so it'll always hold a special place for me.

[@varanid9]

It's really not a bad movie at all, either. The important thing is that it is easily as entertaining as most of the others. And it has a couple of Trek's greatest moments.

[@markmarderosian9657]

Yeah, me too. There are movies and series I saw as a kid that I know now aren't very good, but I'm willing to forgive them for a lot of mistakes. Nostalgia is a hellva' drug.

[@sgt.thundercok4704]

Nice!

[@jasonschlierman412]

Same.

[@moseshorowitz4345]

I've heard that they originally wanted Sean Connery as Spock's brother. Could you imagine him and Shatner doing scenes? As the Klingons might say, it would have been glorious!

[@titanicpat1275]

Connery and Shatner have wrapped their first scene... There were no survivors.

[@DarthSideous63]

That's why they called the God planet Sha Ka Ree.

[@gregbors8364]

“Could you… be… Spock’s brother?” “Yesh, I am Shpock’s brother! Who are yew to ashk?”

[@varanid9]

@@gregbors8364 "My name is Bok, Sy Bok."

[@jkdbuck7670]

Yes. But he was already working on Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

[@johnburke6332]

I'm 38 years old and this movie was my first Star Trek experience, watching it at my Uncle's caravan at Bulli Beach caravan park with my Nanna and others back in 1992. It made me fall in love with the series and is to this day my favourite Star Trek movie ever. God bless you all. (He doesn't need a starship)

[@johntabler349]

There's something strangely rewarding about loving a movie others hate, this isn't my favorite but I do like it a lot

[@RicardoGarcia-yq2dm]

I love the chemistry the 3 leads had in this along with McCoy’s heartbreaking flashback.

[@vaporwave4880]

One major positive: Jerry Goldsmith’s score is beautiful.

[@rossegan7244]

Possibly the best movie soundtrack composer ever..his personal favourite was the soundtrack he did for total recall..yes im a huge fan of his.

[@commandercaptain4664]

The King always brings it.

[@mjt07f]

I rewatched this recently...it was still better than the new movies.

[@tperfect7241]

That’s not saying much

[@davidbrennan660]

Doing to the Dentist is more interesting.

[@mjt07f]

@@davidbrennan660 haha! That's fair...but, "I'm Kahn..."...blank stare...

[@infiniteflame2374]

"I need my pain!" This movie has some of the best character interactions and development despite it's obvious flaws.

[@professorlavender3994]

My favorite line in almost all of Star Trek is when Kirk rejects having his pain taken away. That you carry it with you, it can drive and shape you, make you who you are. You need your struggles and pain to guide you as much as your joy and victories. He knows its helped make him who he is, its going through those struggles that help him face new ones. Its a message I've held to heart for many years since I first saw it.

[@GeppettoProductions]

This movie had a unique opening pre-credits scene. Definitely set the tone. You knew you were in for a weird ride.

[@damian_cross]

Shatner is such an underrated creative force. I miss Tekwar, man. That shit was great.

[@necrosunderground]

Oh my god, right?! I read the first book almost on a lark, and finished it in like a day. I was like, "Damn, that was surprisingly good!" Had to wait a couple of months on the second one to come out, so I reread TekWar five or six times, just to keep it fresh for the next one.

[@johntabler349]

I was just talking about that the other day, I have part of the series (which I accidentally read out of order and still enjoyed) but I need to find the rest

[@Brotherbear75]

"I know this ship like the back of my hand" ABSOLUTELY CLASSIC drinker. Come on. It was not goofy

[@gimmeboobes]

@kevin barker And that's not bad. I'd still have given fifty something Uhura a jump.

[@johntabler349]

Okay I would not have used that scene but I will make a little excuse for it, ( why? Don't know) the A wasn't the same ship, it clearly wasn't upgraded to the same degree as the original and it's not uncommon for minor design changes to exist between earlier and later versions of the same model, so those beams were doubtless higher in the 1701 than the 1701 A

[@cyberherbalist]

Oddly enough, George Takei, who was no fan of Bill Shatner, had this to say about acting under his direction: "...despite our sometimes strained personal history, I found working with Bill [Shatner] as a director to be surprisingly pleasant."

[@zonzillamagnus5902]

Takei also said that everyone should have universal healthcare except for the unvaccinated.

[@mothichorror446]

@@zonzillamagnus5902 is there a point here?

[@badlaamaurukehu]

@@mothichorror446 Yeah, Takei says alot of stupid things.

[@mothichorror446]

@@badlaamaurukehu and this in particular is stupid how?

[@eq1373]

@@mothichorror446 I guess to Coronanazis it's not.

[@kuribayashi84]

I said it elsewhere and I say it again: I can't be too hard on Star Trek V. It is certainly flawed (much of these flaws can be attributed to its troubled production) but it still has a lot going for it. Out of the first six movies, its probably the only one I don't love but I still _like_ it. It has heart. It at least *tries* to give the Fans that Vulcan Salute. In stark contrast, I feel like most "Trek" I've seen since 2017 was just constantly giving me the finger...

[@electrictroy2010]

Valid point… everything post-2015 is not true to Roddenberry’s vision. It’s an insult. FF5 is my least favorite classic/tng movie but at least it sticks to the Roddenberry vision (exploring new ideas)

[@WillHerrmann]

Roddenberry's vision was being challenged by mid-TNG, and all the better (if you're a fan of DS9, you already like post-Roddenberry Trek). The difference though is that these at least still feel like they are the "child" of Roddenberry's vision, taking the good parts while leaving bad (like his no interpersonal conflict rule). That said, the 2009 movie feels like it has greater influence from Star Wars, and the Disco-era shows make me wonder sometimes if the writers and producers even like Classic Trek.

[@johntabler349]

​@@WillHerrmannI've always thought of Roddenberry as a visionary kind of creative, but he needed a buffer, it was largely Gene Coontz who brought the heart humor and humanity that made Roddenberry s great concept into it great show

[@johntabler349]

​@@WillHerrmannand after he saved her from being severely tortured, talk about gratitude

[@wookieninja8794]

You know watching your Production Hell series really makes me appreciate the good and great movies that came from the 60's, 70's, and 80's. It just seems like that was a really tough time for movie making.

[@electrictroy2010]

Budgets on special effects were limited. Everything had to be built by hand, which is both materials & labor intensive. Today effects are made with a computer. It’s easy in comparison Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited for making effects. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies fit the constraint. Shatner failed .

[@TheRadioAteMyTV]

Here I am again, being the lone Star Trek fan who LOVES this movie. There are so many deep and brilliant quotes in this film, that people hate it is beyond me. I LOVE this one. I find the whale one enjoyable, but not as good as this one. Of course 2 is the bestn period.

[@izzieb]

You're not alone. I also enjoy this movie. Everyone goes on about the religious overtones - perhaps I misunderstood, because I thought it was in line with other Star Trek media (something seems God like but is proven to be an advanced, powerful alien which is then defeated). Certainly TNG had storylines along the same lines.

[@lukestrawwalker]

@@izzieb Yes quite true... I think it's the poorly done "neon cartoon special effects" and the muddled story with too many religious overtones that really turns people off this one. But like you said, it's not anything they haven't done in different ways before and since... Even TMP was based on an original script called "The God Thing"... Later! OL J R :)

[@connormellin7777]

You are not alone 😉

[@cobracommander8133]

No way. I love it too. I left a similar comment on another video a few weeks ago, that I felt like the only person who loves it, and a lot of people replied saying they liked ST5 too.

[@TheRadioAteMyTV]

@@cobracommander8133 Thanks. our little 14 thumbs up show we are in an exclusive group. Don't care, I LOVE it and it's as simple as that. That you all are on board, the more the merrier!

[@doltBmB]

Powerful ideas. The opening minutes with a laughing vulcan is striking. Challenging the very abject humanism that the franchise is built on. Shaking the foundations of trek. Embracing emotion and religion as alternative and valid modes of thought and experience. Sadly, the half baked script never quite lives up to the potential of the premise. At least the character moments with kirk, spock and mccoy are great even if the rest of it falls flat. I would love to see a renewed take on these ideas, but I have even less faith in modern trek to pull it off.

[@lukestrawwalker]

Try NO faith... Bad Reboot (Jar Jar Trek) is TOTALLY incapable of even REtelling the original stories in a decent way. They'd TOTALLY screw the pooch trying to redo ST V... OL J R :)

[@ScotsThinker]

Hope, Redemption and the Pursuit of Objective Truth are Powerful messages that have been relevant in the best of stories Popular Culture has told. The Matrix is a cyberpunk parable where all have fallen asleep to an enslaving computer system yet some rebels are able to wake up and alert others of the Truth. In recent memory, Violet Evergarden is a story about the titular character's redemption in learning how to empathise with others. Of course, their are countless stories like Lord of the Rings or Narnia which deal with Good overcoming Evil. Humanist entertainment can show traces of these ideas since they hold most of the same values but the ultimate lack of a foundational moral code and the absence of long term hope has often resulted in humanists creating nihilistic pieces of work, whether intentional of not. With that said, even some humanists recognise the values of a Religiously motivated lifestyle. The Director of the film 'The Book of Eli' isn't even a Christian yet he thought that a story of Denzel Washington traversing post apocalyptic Earth with the last copy of the Holy Bible made for a great premise.

[@lukestrawwalker]

@@ScotsThinker I meant "NO FAITH" in Hollyweird today being able to redo ST 5 and producing anything but the same sort of utter rubbish they crank out today... Not "no faith" as in atheistic... OL J R :)

[@apreviousseagle836]

The cast did an excellent job. McCoy was at his game, as usual. Lawrence Luckinbill (sp?) was a phenomenal Sybok. I'd have followed that guy to the corners of the universe. The worst about the film were the terrible FX, but I can look those over to see the heart of what the story was trying to tell.

[@apreviousseagle836]

@@ScotsThinker The Book of Eli was an awesome film. It should be the gold standard for religious productions, along with Ben-Hur. Instead of all that garbage with Kevin Sorbo they keep on making.

[@ApexTrader12]

This is actually my favourite Star Trek. You can see what they were trying to do and if you focus on that and the brilliant acting it’s amazing. The fact there were so much production problems just makes me appreciate it even more. From the dynamic of the three main characters to Sybok’s delve into peoples inner most fears and emotion it really struck a chord for me. That scene with McCoy and his father gets me every time. Just that one sentence ‘dear god don’t do this to me’ and you’re hooked. Who hasn’t carried a mistake in their hearts that held them back a bit. Or the intro scene with a man holding on with everything he has to a patch of dirt. Again one simple sentence encapsulating his deepest emotion ‘it’s all I have’. Who hasn’t poured so much of themselves into something and found it hard to let go. Who hasn’t needed someone to come along and let them know it’s ok to let go, share your fear or pain and grow stronger from it. The movie resonated on a much deeper level even if the execution wasn’t perfect if you can see what they were trying to achieve then it’s truly a great film for me

[@varanid9]

Yeah, despite its missteps, there is stuff to love here, too. Definitely more than the first movie. I'd rate Final Frontier above that one, and above Generations and Insurrection.

[@deborahblackvideoediting8697]

Of the entire film, that scene with McCoy and his father affected me far more than any other. It's so painful to watch. That scene still lingers in my memory after all these years.

[@adsheff]

@@varanid9 am I the only one who loved Generations? I love the high concept trek, so much more than villain with a big weapon (i.e. WOK, FC, Nemesis and all the new ones)

[@jimgrant8960]

One of it's problems is ST4 attracted no Star Trek fans. They went looking for a sequel to ST 4. What they got was STAR TREK, cheap effects and all. Greatest Trek film ever.

[@kjgoebel7098]

You know, I completely disagree with your conclusion, but you make a bunch of good points and everything you said is true. It's one of my least favorite Star Trek movies, but it's nowhere near valueless. I'd much rather live in a world where Star Trek V is the way it is than a world in which it was never made.

[@mrawesome5495]

It's still a good Saturday morning hangover movie. You have to give the editors kudos for putting this together. I still think the first one in the series so totally underrated. It gets better each time you watch it.

[@sterling7]

Bits and pieces of this one stick with me. The one big resentment I remember carrying out was the "I know this ship like the back of my hand" bit. It's okay as a silly, throwaway joke- but Scotty knocks himself unconscious, and that's how the fanatic's people end up capturing him. Whoever thought it was okay to use that bit for carrying forward even a small piece of plot should have been keelhauled.

[@PHDiaz-vv7yo]

ST V needs more love. It’s like going to Shatner’s place for dinner. And he’s cooking in the kitchen. But he’s had too much vino and burnt the chicken as he sings through his version of Common People. It tastes horrible, but I’d tell anecdotes about it years later

[@lukestrawwalker]

Nice analogy LOL:) I LIKE THAT! OL J R :)

[@zoblad3557]

Gotta love that promotional poster: "The Enterprise is back. This time, have they gone too far?" Yes, yes they have.

[@TheTb2364]

I actually liked it. Especially the moments where it fleshes out characters in a way we haven't seen before. Also as much as "secret lost sibling" premise is silly, I really like the prophetic villain.

[@ReticentDuet]

And at least this secret lost sibling isn't as terrible as Spock's other secret lost sibling.

[@smiffy24601]

And if anyone was going to have a secret lost sibling, it was going to be Spock. He's not the type to say anything not directly relevant to the conversation or the situation at hand

[@ReticentDuet]

@@smiffy24601 That aspect of it was pretty believable. I can absolutely see Spock not bringing that up in conversation with Kirk at any point, despite the two of them being best friends. That kind of friendship doesn't work the same way as it would between two (full-blooded) humans.

[@boobah5643]

@@ReticentDuet In a good _Trek_ we could have had Sybok and Michael interact. There are some definite possibilities; Sybok's an interesting character to explore. But Kurtzman.

[@Tigerhawk30]

The scene with Spock and McCoy looking at their pasts was the best part of that movie, along with Kirk's, "I don't want my pain taken away, I NEED my pain!" moment. The rest, with the exception of a few other moments, was impossible to swallow.

[@robertmwilliams]

Though I know a lot of people don't care for this outing for the Enterprise crew I think the scene in the observation lounge is incredibly deep and a gem. In that one scene we get to see and experience the various kinds of pain through the eyes and experiences of the characters. McCoy at having to let his father die - Pain of conscious Spock - Pain of not feeling he met and could not meet expectations Kirk - Pain of life experiences and of having to make command decisions McCoys father - Physical pain and helplessness Sybok - The pain of not being able to save everyone and remove their pain However in the confrontation of their pain they accept it existence and move beyond it. Accepting, to one degree or another, that it is essential to who they were and who they are.

[@enterprisingcaptian875]

I was able to buy and read the novel about a week before the movie's release. To say there were great character moments would be a huge understatement. Each main character had a "Sybok" moment. This would have been a tremendous film if give a few more rewrites, a larger budget and faith from Paramount. I'm also pretty sure that there was a writer's strike was happening during the writing of TFF. If the movie could have been given a fall release rather than a very overcrowded summer release it may have faired better. Sadly, we will never get the movie we deserved, or the one Shatner wanted to give us.

[@ProjectFlashlight612]

You are correct. The 88 writer strike hamstrung not only ST5, but the second and first seasons of, respectively, Star Trek TNG and War Of The Worlds.

[@saftpackerl]

~33million 1988 dollars is not a small budget! Aliens three years earlier had about two thirds of that...

[@varanid9]

@@saftpackerl That's what I don't understand; this movie had a bigger budget than all the others except for the first one. The only thing I can figure is rushed production, a lack of talent in the FX department, and interference from the studio. Of course, if it had all gone the way Shatner had wanted, that still doesn't mean it would have resulted in a great film. Still, though not as good as the others, it's still at least in the same overall ballpark. I enjoyed it.

[@GartheKnightReturns]

@@saftpackerl I see your comparison but Aliens had more in camera effects(models & miniatures) where with Trek it has/needed more special effects. Ships, space & etc. It was unfortunate we didn’t get to see it fully realized because there is a lot to explore, but it had so many other outside factors dragging it down. Still it has some of the best interactions between the three main leads.

[@Confederate115]

There's a lot of great scenes in 5 (Bones re-living his fathers death, Spock trying to understand camping). It's light years better than the crap Hollywood churns out today.

[@lukestrawwalker]

Yes, at least it had a good CHARACTER DRIVEN *STORY* and GOOD WRITING! Something ABSOLUTELY and SORELY lacking in modern "Drek"... OL J R :)

[@fuqjuetube882]

Row row row your boat!

[@Just_Pele]

As a kid I loved ST:V, "What does God need with a starship?" 😆 It didn't realize how bad it was until I was older. But still, it was a part of my childhood, and even though it's aged like alka-seltzer in warm milk, I can't hate it.

[@varanid9]

I accept its cons because its pros are better.

[@jkdbuck7670]

It's the way Shatner delivered the line....total Shatnerism.

[@accutronitisthe2nd95]

I've never forget the best line from that movie "Why does God need a Starship?" as always Kirk, great question!

[@Section8dc]

This is BY FAR my favorite series on your channel, I would buy the whole series on DVD if you had done more than a few of them. Amazing work I was so happy to see you had added another one to the series!

[@buetiniedermeier]

And yet the chemistry between the original characters is so awesome in some of the scenes that it was this movie that got me into Star Trek in the first place.

[@buetiniedermeier]

BTW: I'd rather watch Star Trek V anytime than any of the stupid TNG movies.

[@varanid9]

@@buetiniedermeier I don't know, First Contact was pretty awesome. And, like Final Frontier, I'm one of the few that liked Nemesis. You can keep Insurrection, though; worst film of the franchise, IMHO, and the only reason to watch Generations is for the TOS cast, definitely not the cringey send-off they gave Kirk.

[@johntabler349]

​@@varanid9I don't like first contact as much because of the way they butcher Zephram Cochran and make him completely unfaithful to canon, it bothered me a little when it came out but it's festered like an untreated wound and I can't watch it anymore

[@kaptaintripps]

The campfire scene was brilliant, possibly my favorite in any Star Trek movie. In my head Spock is well aware that "Row Your Boat" is a metaphor but just enjoys fucking with McCoy

[@johntabler349]

Spock wasn't completely back to form at this point, it also explains why a captain is still acting as first officer, but I like your version too

[@OldMovieRob]

Jerry Goldsmith still managed to write an epic score for this film.

[@TheSchaef47]

Jerry Goldsmith is great, and his Star Trek music is great. But to my mind, the Goldsmith theme is the TNG theme, and the Horner theme is the movie(s) theme.

[@robertfitzgerald3118]

Had the epic Klingon theme...

[@TheSchaef47]

@@drt1605 most commonly Horner borrows from himself, which is not plagiarism. And while he's notorious for it, he's not alone: in the early 80s, the joke was, you take the Star Wars score, turn it upside down, you're playing the Superman theme. Play it backwards, now it's the Indiana Jones theme. And of course some of his stuff sounds like other stuff. Everyone's stuff sounds like other stuff. There is nothing new under the sun. To go back to the previous example, the inspiration of Holst on Star Wars is clear, and hardly accidental.

[@TheSchaef47]

@@drt1605 that was also my view until I majored in music composition in college because of people like Williams, Horner and Goldsmith, and now... it's still my view. And you don't need to worry about Horner producing any more work. He died six years ago.

[@tulinfirenze1990]

He NEVER EVER failed to do so.

[@akaflint10]

DeForest Kelley, on The Tomorrow Show with Tom Snyder (NBC) in the mid-'70's, about the possibility of a Star Trek movie: "One of the ideas (for the movie) is the crew finding God in space and finding out he's the Devil." So that idea had been around a while. I was at a comic book convention in 1990, seated a few tables down from Peter David, who wrote the novelization for STAR TREK V. He spent the whole weekend telling all and sundry pretty much what you've said here: The movie had a lot of potential that was never realized. Still, it has Kirk's "I need my pain" speech, which is about the only good bit of writing in the movie, and his line, "Why does God need a spaceship?" is classic. All this, and Uhura's fan dance...!

[@gokhanersan8561]

“Go boldly where…” is at the core of Star Trek. And this movie, despite its production, shortcomings fulfills that goal. It’s about discovery, not solely about good guys vs bad guys.

[@williambarger8468]

Kirk "I Don't want my pain taken away. I need my Pain!" For my money no other line in Trek encapsulates a character better. I've always thought Trek V was underrated.

[@varanid9]

I think a few prominent Trekkies are outspoken about it being supposedly so bad and a lot of sheep b-a-a-a along. Yeah, it has cringe elements, but, it also has some brilliant moments, too.

[@Applejack30three]

"ST VI: The Undiscovered Country" is absolutely beautiful... From Praxis to the end credits, it is just perfect. Mr Drinker should recommend it to those poor young souls who have only known STD, as far as trekking the stars is concerned...

[@greenmachine6638]

Despite all it's shortcomings, I like the movie. It's fun and laid back, there's lots of great character moments. Also, as someone else suggested (Mauler maybe?), its interesting to imagine the whole thing is just Kirk dreaming about being a hero, as it is a little far-fetched, even in the wacky land of Star Trek. That certainly makes its shortcomings easier to bear, at the very least.

[@zanep.r.2514]

​@YTr cretor Muhammed was a tyrant who converted people at the tip of a sword fyi....

[@fredgarv79]

fun is the word

[@bowser515]

I had no idea about the production issues with this one. Thanks for the entertaining 10 mins as ever. I have to say though, even though this is far from the greatest Trek movie ever made. I've always kind of enjoyed this one. Having now heard the original intentions, I agree with you that it's a shame that we never saw it as it was intended to be made. Studios hey....

[@heetsees]

Lots of good lines and decent scenes. It's still a fun romp with the original crew through space/time.

[@DBSG1976]

I suffered through this travesty in the theater, I was baffled after how entertaining"Star Trek IV" was.

[@gameking8809]

Strange. I found this one way more entertaining than IV. By that point we already had too many "travel to the past" episodes of TOS.

[@tulinfirenze1990]

Yep - similar feeling to watching Alien 3 after having seen Aliens.

[@retronemesis7064]

Final Frontier is the one movie that had the feel of a classic TOS episode. Shitty effects, off the rack costumes, and an energy being that is defeated by a Shatner speech. The cave scene is one of the best scenes in any Trek film too.

[@cfsherrill]

"an energy being defeated by a Shatner speech' LOLZ, I never even considered that. How many energy beings did he defeat that way - I lost count. I totally agree it is the closest to TOS. Its actually my fourth favorite of the series after Wrath, Undiscovered Country, and First Contact. Hi rating for rewatchability - you can drop right in anywhere. And Sybok is a great villian.

[@wefinishthisnow3883]

@@cfsherrill Completely agree with your ranking/assessment.

[@f1jones544]

Agreed.

[@profpigeon5441]

Love it spot on how I feel

[@commandercaptain4664]

The energy being was defeated by the power of ALTERNATE UNIVERSE FIGHT. Shatner's speeches usually destroy world-controlling computers.

[@alex-roe]

I literally watched Star Trek IV The Voyage Home for the first time yesterday and loved it. Was riding on a high having not seen the next two yet, I'll be back here later...

[@rkitchen69]

Star Trek 6 is great.

[@alex-roe]

@@rkitchen69 I'll look forward to it!

[@HerrEllsworth]

I heard that Shatner had gotten the initial idea for ST V from Harlan Ellison who had pitched a Trek story about how the Enterprise "goes off and finds God". Supposedly, Shatner even approached Ellison to expand his story idea but Ellison essentially wanted to turn it into the "Ten Commandments in space" in terms of scale and budget.

[@cliffedward]

I read the book that Shatner's daughter wrote about the struggles her father was up against making this movie. I feel sorry for him and he should be commended for achieving what he did. His heart was really in it.

[@electrictroy2010]

Shatner forgot that money is Not unlimited. He had to stay inside the budget. Nimoy understood so he made his movies fit the constraint. Shatner failed .

[@TheRealMacAndCheese]

As a practicing Lutheran, I can absolutely confirm that whenever Satan causes trouble, God immediately get's on the phone with William Shatner.

[@varanid9]

That ol' Devil better get back to his basement or get SHAT on!

[@TheRealMacAndCheese]

@@varanid9 hahahaha Good one!

[@timothyduffy8818]

Funny how everyone blames Shatner as Director but it comes down to the studio pushing the time up and not giving any budget to make the film. the writing is some of the best in the franchise. McCoy and his father, the camp fire scene. Yes it could have used a few more rewrites for the rest.

[@necrosunderground]

That scene with Bones and his dad is a solid gut-punch. I remember seeing it in the theater and just having all the air sucked out of me when Kelley delivered the "They found a cure" line. For all the shit people have talked about TFF, that was one of the most impactful scenes in the entire franchise.

[@MacStoker]

You don't know 'row row row your boat? Let me start, don't say I didn't warn you

[@mattyboyanderson]

The ones who blamed Shatner for this WANTED to blame him. Their guns were loaded. Ol' Bill has been weathering ridicule and scorn for probably his entire career, not to mention the loss of a wife by drowning, and yet the guy is almost always genial and appealing. Maybe Chris Pine will be like that in his 80's, it's not impossible. Maybe Karl Urban as an old man could have a devastating moment like McCoy does with his father in TFF. (A scene which, by the way, I completely blocked out from the last time I saw it decades ago, holy god, even if you haven't lost your dad it's brutal.) I give Karl a lifetime pass for the best portrayal of Judge Dredd ever. Seriously though, how great was DREDD? I might go watch it again now. I've seen it a dozen times. THAT'S what happens when you treat a franchise and its fans with respect. Sorry to go off-topic.

[@saftpackerl]

For all the Blame it on the low budget guys: ~33million 1988 dollars is not a small budget! Aliens three years earlier had about two thirds of that... It would be interesting what Shatner took home for this movie.

[@TheSt1092]

Love the the fact you use J K Simmons JJonah Jameson Laugh Drinker.

[@itinerantpatriot1196]

"None of these grand ideas really gel into a satisfying whole." Sounds like a review of my marriage Drinker. I'm with you on this one. I only watched it once when it made it to cable.

[@robertbobbypelletreaujr2173]

I used to watch these movies on vhs with my parents as a kid. Thank you to all the talented people that made the films.

[@MementoMorituri]

That movie does have one of my favorite scene in all of Trek. Kirk: I thought I was going to die. Spock: Not possible. You were never alone.

[@lukestrawwalker]

"Please, Captain-- Not in front of the Klingons" -Spock (LOL:) OL J R :)

[@varanid9]

Damn, you're right, that was another great scene. I'm starting to think Final Frontier was actually one of the best Trek movies, now.

[@Grigorii-j7z]

I still prefer Final Frontier to Rise of Skywalker.

[@Saint_nobody]

That's sexist, sir.

[@DoomguyIsGrinningAtYou.]

@@Saint_nobody Racist? Homophobic possibly? Dare I even say it... BIGOTED?!

[@Grigorii-j7z]

@@Saint_nobody one of the benefits of not living in fist world country, mate.

[@jca4la]

And I prefer falling into an open sewer to The Last Jedi

[@greebo7857]

@@jca4la Shit, I'd prefer to be forced to watch a Neil Breen movie on continuos loop.

[@GQBouncer]

"What does God need with a starship?" forced me into an internal Socratic dialogue that made me question all world religions.

[@JamesRDavenport]

Hmm. I never saw it that way. He's pretending to be God, that's obvious and not doing a great job afterall, for the real God requires nothing. The evidence that we live in a purpose built Universe made with intelligence is also obvious for anyone willing to see it.

[@GQBouncer]

@@JamesRDavenport Hey thanks for the thoughtful comment. I think we generally agree with eachother. Plato's "Euthyphro" is a book where Socrates makes a compelling argument against piety and the Gods of his time. Generally, Socrates puts forth that everything calling themselves a God is infact subordinate to something higher than themselves which is the actual "God" (I use quotations there because i'm unsure of a word that is something beyond that of a God as I understand it in language)

[@varanid9]

@@GQBouncer Yes. If we derive our life force from the universe, then, it stands to reason that the universe must be alive.

[@CantusTropus]

@@GQBouncer Euthyphro is an interesting book, but the famous Euthyphro dilemma isn't as powerful as it's often made out to be. Classical Theism (the conception of God historically dominant in Christianity for pretty much all of its existence) have a view of God that's not susceptible to it, holding that morality is neither arbitrary divine fiat nor based on a standard independent of God (which would make God not God, but merely "a god" like Thor or Odin, who even if they existed would merely be big, powerful people and absolutely nothing like the true God). You can see a more detailed explanation here: edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2010/10/god-obligation-and-euthyphro-dilemma.html

[@DecadesApartProductions]

These are the videos I stick around for. As someone who doesn't care about modern cinema, listening to the complaints gets rather tiresome. However, these production hell videos are absolutely superb! I love listening to a history of films (both good and bad) that encountered troubled productions. I really hope to see more of these in the near future. Maybe next time you can cover Alien 3 or Jaws.

[@SumDumGy]

I have always enjoyed the ponderously hopeful theme song for this film.

[@leyenda6149]

Still better than the shite that passes for "Star Trek" these days

[@bonidle726]

Amen brother.

[@thatguyfromcetialphaV]

At least it had ideas. Unlike the bollocks that carries the name Star Trek today

[@leyenda6149]

Surprised Drinker didn't mention the whole Sean Connery casting push that fell through

[@lukestrawwalker]

@@thatguyfromcetialphaV Yeah this empty-headed shock-jock bad retread CRAP that just sh!ts all over the original is just an insult to what Star Trek was and is all about. Maybe after it all crashes and burns and sits on a shelf somewhere for a decade someone will come along that actually knows how to make Star Trek and TELL GOOD STORIES!!! OL J R :)

[@ScotsThinker]

"I uh...I think I can smell Shite"

[@CharlesRengel]

I'm glad that you liked "The Undiscovered Country." It's an underappreciated movie.

[@tigerbread78]

I actually like this more than The Motion Picture, whereas that film meandered for what felt like a thousand years, Final Frontier moves at a brisk pace, sure the God concept is dumb, but it's the interplay between the trio that I find most pleasing, it's been honed over the last 7 years, I found the situation proved how strong the bond they had was

[@jkdbuck7670]

You mean Star Trek the (Slow) Motion Picture ?

[@varanid9]

LOL, true, Final Frontier is infinitely more re-watchable.

[@JasonAdank]

One thing I really liked about TMP was all the extended sets of the interior of the Enterprise... the recreation deck, the officers lounge, the REAL shuttle and cargo bay... I wish those extended sets had not been destroyed, and instead be used in later films.

[@NashmanNash]

@@jkdbuck7670 Bored out of your mind...Bored out of your mind kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJ-omHWwjJeBoqc

[@bgm1975]

Taking my son to see the 35th Anniversary of Star Trek 4 next week. He's very excited to see it, and it's great to see him experience films I loved as a kid. And next year we will finally get the remastered, 4K Director's Edition of The Motion Picture (which I still have a DVD copy of).