Professional Watercolor Papers: A Performance Comparison II

[@greekveteran2715]

I came back, to say that a year ago, the wrong paper choice,almost made me quit, my fresh at that moment, watercolor journey! This video saved it, and I'm still refering to your videos, when I want to try something new, to find out what paper to choose!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH,for everything you've done!!!

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

This means so much to me. Thank you for telling me. To know that my work can help others like this...well, it just makes it all worth while.

[@starr-starr]

Once again, a brilliant, in depth comparison of professional watercolor papers. I learned a lot from this! Thank you so much for all this hard work.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

I'm glad you enjoyed and benefited from it.

[@C4rl4glz]

Your video is so professional and love your voice! Thanks for sharing all the testing on the papers.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

I'm glad it was helpful...and thank you so much!

[@awatercolourist]

Just like your first paper comparison video, this is an excellent and informative video. Thanks so much for making it 🙂

[@lucieburelle3343]

Thank you so much. I appreciate your generosity, scientific approach, objectivity, and pieces of advice.

[@MBDronePhoto]

That was very helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to produce this paper test.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

I'm glad it was helpful.

[@alicem1111]

This was a pleasure to watch. It was a well organized and well executed exploration. Thank you so much for your efforts! I’ve been curious about a few of these papers.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

I'm glad it was helpful, Alice.

[@jennw6809]

Wonderful followup! I watched your first video on paper so many times.... I cannot BELIEVE KZbin didn't show me this one! Sadly, Aquarius II has apparently been discontinued. Too bad since it was so unique, and a cult favorite for certain art uses other than watercolor. Ugh, the warp on the Winsor & Newton... it used to lay so flat! It seems your W&N was sized better than my samples (from the looks of your wet-on-dry wash test). Mine were bought just after the transition; perhaps they improved it. Hahnemuhle Cezanne/The Collection and Lanaquarelle have turned out to be my favorite papers, but you are right about the speckling. It happens more the finer the pigments are, so your phthalo green in the wash test showed it well. I have been curious about Hahnemuhle Expression, but the price has never been favorable enough (in the US) for me to bother to try it. It is, in theory, harder sized than The Collection, but your tests didn't particularly reveal that. I've been curious about the Turner paper, just because of the lack of surface sizing, so that was fun to see. I wonder, did Turner use this type of paper? In that vein, I was so surprised to see that Milford was only internally sized. I've tested a small sample but it was hard to tell much. It's hard sizing is apparently legendary in Britain, where some really love it to create snowy effects with quick and expressive dry brushing. Baohong has become very well regarded here on KZbin... it is available in loose sheets on Amazon and Etsy, as well as rolls on AliExpress (although the Chinese paper sizing is very confusing... I haven't been able to quite find the 22x30 on AliExpress).

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

I'm surprised they didn't notify you, too. Hmm. And I'm so surprised to hear about Aquarius II! Gosh, there have been so many changes just since publishing my two videos. It's a little concerning. It was very interesting to read about your own experiences with these papers. Regarding Turner, my understanding is that he used a medium weight, well-sized handmade paper from a local mill; mostly white or cream. So perhaps based on his preferences?

[@jennw6809]

@@JillPoyerdFineArt Do you know, in Turner's day, was paper made especially for watercolor and with sizing? Or did watercolorists use paper made for other media? I heard he sometimes used a lightly blue-tinted paper, but I'm not sure that was true.

[@heartwormskillcats8357]

Always amazing to watch your videos.

[@Opel314]

Very interesting and informative! Thank you.

[@errorhttp4023]

wow thank you for your wonderful videos

[@js8703]

New subscriber. I'm a newbie learning heaps from your fantastic tutorials. Thankyou for all your time and work. It is greatly appreciated.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

I'm so glad you're enjoying my work. Welcome to my channel!

[@heatherh3457]

Once again great video. Thank you.❤

[@1mulekicker]

Great job product testing and performance summary. I am so new to art and watercolor my shade would be somewhere next to sap green. Luckily, I started at thrift stores, and big box 1st. time discounts and only getting a couple entry level products.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Well, welcome to the world of art! I hope you enjoy your journey.

[@stewarth]

So much great information. Thank you for putting so much effort into this!

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Really glad you enjoyed it

[@cmcasadoiro]

Really useful, thank you so much!

[@mb3938]

Thank you so much for this!! You are helping us a lot with your informative videos!!

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

I'm so glad they're helpful.

[@sylvainst-pierre5224]

Wow ! gret video. Thanks for all that.

[@nicoleperron3315]

Going to look for your other paper video, thank you so much for this. I just had the experience of trying Canson XL 140 lbs paper thinking that all watercolor papers were cotton, OMG I thought there was something wrong with me! It's not the same as Arches, but Arches has gotten so expensive, I was looking for something comparable, I tend to work rather wet. This is why I'm now very invested in learning about watercolor papers

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

I'm so glad it was helpful. It is amazing how much paper ingredients can impact performance.

[@greekveteran2715]

Not only the paper makes a huge difference and it's the most important factor, for watercolor painting but also, every single watercolor brand and watercolor techniques and kind of paintings you do, all including the different brands, perform completely differently on different papers! Canson XL is student paper at best. I wouldn't recommend the XL series, for any serious watercolor painting, only for sketching and simple illustrations. For the best quality paper, choose the single sheets from the brand you like, that are sold unde the name "mould made" or "mould paper".. Those are THE best papers, for very wet use, because they are made either 300gr thick as also 640gr which is CRAZY thick and can take a bucket of water on it, without having any issue!! Hahnemuhle Mould made, is the best I've found. IT's funny how the best quality brand of papers, is the most underrated ione, but it's tru! They also make my favorite drawing paper, the Dessin 150gsm. I also love, the "Collection" paper, that is shown on this video. Arches is ok, but I like their Hot Pressed more, for Graphite or color pencil drawings! Hope this helps!

[@sergiuman7178]

My hot take on the new Winsor and Newton paper - it is manufactured by Fabriano. The watermark is placed upon the same corner as the new Fabriano Artistico paper (yes, they have reformulated that one as well). It has the same... undertexture, fine, mechanical looking dots. The color is identical to their extra white. They handle watercolor pretty much identically. LE: What papers have you been comfortable with using now that you've reviewed most of them? If you ever feel like a 3rd episode is required I can suggest a few papers: Fontaine (by Clairefontaine) Fabriano Artistico (new improved version) Langton Prestige Fluid 100

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Great questions, Sergiu. In my daily practice, my process is slow, so the discovery is slow. Currently, I like 300lb (600gsm) Lanaquarelle, but it doesn't take masking fluid well so can only be used for certain compositions. I'm trying to decide on an alternate 300lb paper (one that tolerates masking) for my professional use. I'm in the process of trying out the new W&N, Waterford (although I don't like the color), and Arches (my old go-to paper). I stopped using Arches because of the warping, but decided to retry it for comparison's sake. I worked with it for a long time a while back so I know what to expect, which is nice. I'd like to try Hahnemuhle's Collection 300lb large sheet, but it's currently unavailable. I have their small 300lb block and it's very nice. If it's just as nice for a large painting, it may be my second choice when I can't use Lanaquarelle. So, that's where I stand at the moment. I can't wait to narrow down my personal preference. I wish I could try Millford in my work, but they don't produce it in the heavier weight. Darn. Is the new Fabriano brand very new? I know they changed a while back, which I reviewed in my first video by this name. It didn't do too well, unlike the old version. I'd love to know if they adjusted again. I have a feeling there will one day be a third version since papers continue to change. I'll take note of the ones you mentioned. Thanks!

[@karlkanner3467]

Thanks so much. This was absolutely wonderful and really informative!

[@MohanrajK123]

Thank you Jill for this video. I am using Expression paper recently. I felt it was drying too fast. Now your test has confirmed this .. will try to be little faster now 😁 You should test Chitrapat too.. it's white Handmade cotton paper

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

I'm glad it was helpful, Mohanraj. If I ever do another similar video, perhaps I'll try the paper you mention, if I can get it in my country.

[@wildflower1397]

Great video, but disappointed you didn't put a results chart up at the end. I will have to go watch the reviews at the end to make my own chart, because it was handy to be able to compare all the attributes together. I must have missed it if you mentioned why Arches wasn't one of the papers compared?

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

You know, a few others asked about this too. I will have to see if I can make the chart and somehow post it somewhere for viewers (community page? Unfortunately, if I reload the video with the change, I look all of the stats. But, I'll consider it. I actually cover Arches in the first video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eovLpKp5drJmaLMsi=dQPjKshr0Ypg9Txt

[@wildflower1397]

@@JillPoyerdFineArt Yes, I saw the first video, but have seen some people posting that they changed their paper? I am new to watercolor, so I purchased a few of your recommendations to try. If you make a chart, can you just add a link in the description? Anyone looking for more info would check there anyway. Thanks again for such a thorough review of papers!

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

@@wildflower1397 Of course! That's a great way to handle it. Yes, it was amazing timing that shortly after posting both videos, I think it was three manufacturers made changes.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

@wildflower1397 - Here is a link to the charts from both videos (downloadable). I had to split the newer chart into two because there were so many papers tested. I hope it helps! jmp.sh/SbVeq9PM

[@wildflower1397]

@@JillPoyerdFineArt Awesome! Thanks for letting me know. :)

[@quizudita]

Hanemule Collection best Shizen- Rough surface Baohong- only not good with : Heavy pigment drops on wet paper 1:09:39

[@martinanelsonartandpsychol6478]

Thank you so much for all your work, effort and time this has taken!!!! Very interesting and helpful. But I also like the comment below from Creative Colors. Living in Europe the papers might differ greatly from those in the US. Also the prices are very different. My view on Hahnenmuehle is: They are still taking advantage of the name and quality they once had. I am wondering for how much longer that will work. Personally, I like Bahong.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

I'm glad you enjoyed it, Marina! I do want to ask the manufacturers if they alter the lines. From a few conversations I've had with various POCs, it sounds like they make different lines for different parts of the world - less sized paper for Europe and more sized for the US, for example. But these are different lines within their brands. If I have a chance, I'll ask if the same line differs by location.

[@terrifyingtyrannosaurusturtle]

I caught this one super early! I'll definitely watch this one after work, really looking forward to it!!!

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Great! I'd love to know what you think when you have the time to watch it.

[@rocifier]

This was really good. I'd love to see how Arches compares with all these tests

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Glad you enjoyed it! Actually, I tested Arches in a first test video a few years ago. Here's a link if you're curious: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eovLpKp5drJmaLM

[@arianedanza6485]

Your comparison is great. For the tape - test: So far I know Hahnemühle Turner is only available in block therefor it is not suposted to be taped

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Thanks, Ariane. Actually, I have a large pad of the Turner paper (not block), but I received that as a gift. I'm not sure where it is available for sale.

[@annyc9504]

thanks. I was hoping you would do the summary like you did on the first video.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

You know, I may have to revisit this video at some point. I do think there are a few things I could do to improve it. A similar ending to the first is an option.

[@missrebeccadance]

This was very informative. Do you have a graph chart available, like you did in the first paper video? I found it very helpful to review all the information. 😁🎨🖌

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Hi Rebecca - I just posted the summary chart on my KZbin Channel Community page. Look for the Community Tab on my main KZbin Channel page. I hope it's helpful.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

@missrebeccadance - Here is a link to the charts from both videos (downloadable). I had to split the newer chart into two because there were so many papers tested. I hope it helps! jmp.sh/SbVeq9PM

[@stevesidare2493]

Very informative test! Some papers are sized both internally and externally, I believe, which isn't mentioned in the start of the video. The 3 main textures are 1. handmade (most random) 2. mold made (some pattern), and 3. machine made (mostly the cheaper, wood pulp varieties - very patterned). Rough textured paper has its own purpose and is not a "problem" for smooth washes for those that know why they're using it. I'm assuming you're using Thalo Green and Dioxazine Violet for the pigment testing? It makes a difference what pigments are used.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Huh...Did I not mention that? I'm surprised. I believe I mention that in the early part of the first video (this is actually a part two). Re the pigments, yes, it definitely makes a difference. If I remember correctly, I use Phthalo Green and Ultramarine Violet. I wanted one that granulated a bit and one that didn't.

[@creativecolours2022]

Strathmore imperial has a very forgiving sizing that works great in multiple layers of colour too. The problem with this paper is that its HP surface is way to rough for a HP while the CP looks on your review as the opposite. Way too smooth for a CP. Another problem that I detected on Strathmore Imperial HP is that it granulates like crazy even if one doesn't use granulating colours. I call it the super granulator! But its a very strong paper that you can torture it as hard and as much as you like. I'm a big fan of Strathmore papers and I'm looking up and down for several years now to test the Aquarius one but it is impossible to find it anywhere in Europe. The Hahnemuhle papers are over rated and over priced for what they offer. I have tried most of the all cotton lines and I wouldn't say that I was particularly satisfied. Most of them ( those that are externally sized but also those who are internally sized) have a very dry surface that feels like it is covered with some sort of fine powder or something. The old W&N was better than the new one on both student and professional lines. Particularly the old student grade CP paper at 425 gsm. That was a fantastic blend paper ( I think that it has 25% cotton) with nice strong sizing, and nice bright colour. I don't know what they were thinking when they discontinued it. I wouldn't say that I fell for the W&N new cotton one. It is overpriced and of a very average quality. The Shizen one has a very hard sizing, but it smells bad and has a very prominent texture. It looks more like a rough than a CP paper. I doesn't perform that well on layering. I have published a full review of Millford on my website. Good paper but for more abstract style of painting.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Interesting commentary, Creative Colors. Here are a few thoughts… Yes, the Strathmore Imperial was a pretty mild CP. Interesting to hear about their HP. I’ve tested three Strathmore papers now, and I can’t say they’re my favorite by any means, but they may be great for some artists. The Aquarius was very interesting to use. It would take adjustment in one’s working process (as most papers would) but it had an interesting feel. I hope you can eventually try it. I ordered it through MisterArt.com. Perhaps they ship to Europe? Hahnemuhle - I’ve tested multiple Hahnemuhle papers now, and (since testing) generally like them as a brand. Their student paper isn’t fantastic, but as I said in the video, at least it handled large amounts of liquid better than many student papers. Interesting what you said about the surface. I didn’t notice that at all, but they do have a wide variety of lines. Perhaps you tried a different paper? W&N - I was surprised that it did as well as it did. Yes, their old paper was my go-to paper after Arches changed their process (why do they change a good thing?). The new version seemed better in some ways and worse in other. A mixed bag. But with that warping, I’m not sure I would try it for a formal piece unless it was 300lb paper. Shizen - I am super sensitive to smells and never noticed any scent from this paper. Huh. Maybe your experience was related to a specific batch. It was very, very rough. I’m not sure why they classify it as CP. I liked Millford pretty well. Really, my favorites after all the testing are Lanaquarelle (if I’m not going to mask) and Hahnemuhle Collection, but I’d like to try Two Rivers, Millford, and the new W&N in a heavier weight (I prefer heavier paper) and for a formal painting. That’s an important personal test. Thanks for the input.

[@creativecolours2022]

@@JillPoyerdFineArt I'm almost certain that there are different batches of paper for US and different for the EU market probably due to different manufacturing mills.They probably move the production elsewhere in order to reduce the import costs. I realized that when an American friend recommended to me the Canson Montval and sent me a piece of his Montval to test it. I consider Montval one of the worst student grade papers but the paper that this friend sent me was a completely different kind of paper than the one that I had. If the sample that he sent didn't have a watermark I would have thought that he sent me by mistake some other brand or type of paper. I think that this is probably the case with the Hahnemuhle papers that on top of that have a load of different types of papers and surfaces. I haven't test the same papers that you've tested but I have tested a good number of the 10+ different lines that Hahnemuhle is marketing. Anyway.. My point is that the same brand, type and paper surface might defer completely from country to country. I have also the exact same complain about the quality of the papers. One batch is excellent another batch might be crap. The Millford review btw is here. www.marialenasarris.com/blog-2/

[@aerialpunk]

Yeah, I had seen the older version of this video before coming here, and it seemed like for both the W&N and the Hahnemule Cezanne papers, they shouldn't have fixed it if it wasn't broken, lol.

[@creativecolours2022]

@@aerialpunk I totally agree with you. lol

[@rogerebert5122]

That was huge. Thanks.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Hmm...huge as far as video length? Believe it or not, I trimmed it four times. I really tried to shorten it, but at the current length, I just didn't see any more material I wanted to cut out. It is my longest. The next video will be short, I can tell you that! lol

[@rogerebert5122]

Huge in respect to knowledge.

[@huskytail]

You are one of my very favorite art channels on KZbin! Amazing content and presentation as always Edit : Baohong is a very strange paper to me. It's very staining and the paint absorbs very strangely. It behaves as if there's no internal and some surface sizing. It's possible that the sizing is just different. I wish we had a way to investigate those papers chemically too.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Thank you so much! I'm honored. I agree that it took the paint a little strangely for some tests. Yes, I have to wonder about some aspect of the ingredients.

[@hArtyTruffle]

Aha! Took me 4 months to get here, but I got here. Thanks so much ✨👍🏼

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Welcome to my channel!

[@abandawon]

She has the prettiest Voice on KZbin!!!!

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Aww, thank you...So kind!

[@emmaemma2874]

Great! Can I repost your videos on another platform?

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Absolutely! I would be happy to have you share it, as long as it’s not downloaded and then loaded onto a site. Embedding and sharing is fine. I’m glad you enjoyed it!

[@emmaemma2874]

@@JillPoyerdFineArt Yes, thank you so much!

[@greekveteran2715]

Did Fabriano fix the issues of the Artistico Hotpress? Does anybody know? I'm searching for a cotton paper to draw first with pencils landscape buildings etc, and then water color over the graphite (similar to Smoothie77 style) Can anybody suggest a paper? Older Fabriano was my favorite, I want something similar, with smooth and hard surface. Thanks in advance

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

I don't work with hot pressed much any more, so hopefully someone can make a suggestion. Yes, that old Fabriano HP was wonderful...I remember it, too.

[@greekveteran2715]

@@JillPoyerdFineArt Thanks anyway! Merry Christmas, Happy holidays!!!

[@arianedanza6485]

Yes there is a hot pressed FABRIANO Artistico paper but it is labeld "satiniert"

[@seano1642]

Did you ever hear of "stretching" watercolor paper?

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

Yes - It refers to briefly soaking the watercolor paper in water, allowing the paper fibers to expand as they absorb the water, and then securing the paper on a board so that as it dries the fibers don't shrink back into position. In this way, it allows the artist to start with a pre-stretched paper that shouldn't warp when new liquid/paint is applied. If using this technique, you just have to be aware that you will lose some of the external sizing, changing the way the paper takes the paint a bit. Also, you have to determine what method you'll use to secure the wet paper in place - usually a special tape, but other options include staples or clamps.

[@seano1642]

@@JillPoyerdFineArt Thank you so much for the answer, it is very helpful! One more: Is it actually necessary or just dependent on quality, grade etc. of the paper and or painting style or both?🥶

[@kgxart]

@@seano1642 I'm not expert but I will write what I know: I guess it suits best for wet on wet and glazing washes (eg. Heikala stretches the paper before painting and she uses a lot of these techniques). I guess for "regular" dry on wet painting (along with a bit of other techniques) it's not necessary. And probably you want to stretch only cotton paper, I don't think it would work with celulose paper. I remember I didn't want to paint watercolor because the process of stretching paper beforehand seemed like a nightmare to me and I didn't realize you can just skip it ;D

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

@@seano1642 Good answer by @kgxart. My apologies for my delay! It's just an option. I never stretch my paper beforehand. Instead, I invest in heavier weight paper for very wet painting. The heavier the weight, the thicker the paper, the less warp you will have. I just tape the sides of my dry paper to a board and then paint. If any warping doesn't smooth out as it dries, I can flatten the paper once the painting is finished (you can find methods on YT likely). If you stretch your paper you should make sure you like working on the different absorption rate. Some people love it. There are also now watercolor papers that are glued to archival board making them completely secure and unable to warp. It's a little pricy but a very nice product. www.raymarart.com/collections/archival-painting-panels/products/acm-panel-fabriano-artistico-cold-press-watercolor-paper

[@seano1642]

@@JillPoyerdFineArt Thank you for the reply/answers! 😇✌🏻

[@samimurtomaki5534]

You use discontignued pigment in a test like that 🤯

[@samimurtomaki5534]

If you are not using the actual manganese blue PG33 it might be usefull to adress that.

[@JillPoyerdFineArt]

In the first test I use manganese blue, but it's not actually manganese. It's a hue created to replicate manganese. In this case, I believe it was Daniel Smith Manganese Hue (PB15 - a form of Phthalo). danielsmith.com/color-stories/watercolors/manganese-blue-hue-watercolor/ The later tests use Winsor Green as I recall (you can see the color difference). I don't remember if I mention the change in paint. But, of course, the video is really about paper, how it takes the liquid, and how pigment responds on the surface.

[@ishwararts9094]

Good

[@awatercolourist]

First!