A Very In Depth Analysis and Review of Lords of the Fallen (2023)

[@kellanaldous7092]

Its hilarious that the biggest issue with Lords of the Fallen is how often you fall to your death.

[@Mugthief]

Underrated comment

[@spw947]

That and locking on to a target in front of you. Many times the lock on doesn’t see the target right in front of you. I kept footage of me jumping across at an enemy, but the game locked onto a pulling device instead. I locked on as I hit R1 and the momentum took me right over the side. Exhausting! Who came up with the dumb left stick for activating sprint while jumping?! Ah, just another bad idea. Exhausting! I don’t care if a game scares me or makes me jump. However, there are times one needs two seconds to catch one’s breath and look around. Not this game! Doom Eternal is NOT souls like! *Call someone over at FromSoft to help rehabilitate this beautiful piece of…

[@Chevelle3_]

​@@spw947honestly a skill issue

[@chasegaetze4507]

​@@spw947can't even tell you how many times I'd try to lock on and never get a lock on.

[@chasegaetze4507]

Especially because every corner you know someone is going to try to push you off the ledge. It's not even a matter of guessing if there was going to be a hidden enemy. Nope because 100% of every area has at least one hidden enemy that will push you off a ledge

[@TheKnightCrafter123]

You know what shocks me? This game became ome of the nominees for game of the year in Golden Joystick award WHILE LIES OF P DOESNT. Listen. I dont think Lies of P should win game of the year as well. I mean...look at the releases this year: BG3, Spiderman 2, Zelda TotK, Jedi Survivor, Armored Core 6, etc. But AMONG THOSE TITLES, Lords of the Fallen SOMEHOW mentioned in the list. I am SHOCKED

[@happy_gaming843]

Lies of P is actually been nominated in GoldenJoystickAwards for Best Visual Design

[@TheKnightCrafter123]

@@happy_gaming843 I know but still…in gameplay prespective and level design its just weird for lord of the fallen to be in the GotY one and not Lies of P its either both in, lies of p in, or both out. I mean…diablo 4 is nominated, why not LoP

[@happy_gaming843]

@@TheKnightCrafter123 Golden Joy Stick Awards is chosen by a bunch of selected critics and nominated their like games like starfield , alan wake 2 hahaha

[@DronesOverTheMoon]

​@@TheKnightCrafter123Lies of P literally has no level Design whatsoever, you don't even need to try hard to find things, due to how linear it is, LotF will literally make you fet lost as one of its Main points of the game, with how heavy the exploration withcthe dual world mechanic is

[@googleplaynow9608]

Because lords of the fallen is an objectively better game, boasting souls design levels of elden ring. Hell, I've even had a better time with lotf than elden ring, considering I can actually play it on my neo g9 and not be locked to 60fps...😳😳😳

[@joeytmandude]

During the whole playthrough me and my friends were joking that “A Deer” would be the final boss (like the literal animal). After playing through that dogshit Adyr fight, I genuinely wish the final boss was just a deer.

[@ashs4022]

The dev's literally had their small brother or free-intern make the end adyr fight. I can see the friday (or monday morning) lead designer: "Oh, crap, I have a MASSIVE headache, this game is 4 months behind schedule... we need it out now... hey intern, Mikey, is it Mikey? whatever... we need a boss fight to end the game, do whatever you want, it's your call, WHATEVER I DON'T CARE!... I need to go lie to the producers and tell them we're only 4 weeks out to production and distribution!"

[@duskmare0000]

It was a bit anti-climactic, but it clearly wasn't intended to be a boss fight. It was more of a thematic fight, where you've beaten the final guardian and are now just slaughtering the noncombatants. You don't even do that fight in the other endings. It's purely to confront you with the question of "are you sure you're working for the right guy?"

[@jstar2235]

The Umbral Ending has a way more satisfying final boss.

[@mac1bc]

That wasn't the real final boss

[@flavioy2f]

The Regal Ancestor Spirit is probably much better (the giant deer in Elden Ring).

[@tophersplat]

This game is exhausting and tedius. Not being able to relax and explore for 1 minute is the worst part for me

[@barsham7881]

But you can, sure has more enemys that ds but clearable, make use of seeds and plan you areas so that u have an exit from umbral.

[@alex_lll]

​@@barsham7881not in Umbral - they'll keep spawning endlessly

[@mdbattlefrog1913]

​@barsham7881 yeah this doesn't really fix the exploration issue. Having to take a million years every single room full of 12 enemies makes exploration feel like a chore. It's one of the largest, common complaints about the game.

[@georgen5882]

It is a common complaint but it’s also overblown. It’s more difficult in the beginning because you have no build, no good weapons, no nothing. Learn the area and what the enemies do for attacks, used ranged combat or spells and it will make it loads easier. Once you know where everything is it makes it a lot easier. Just like every other souls game ever made.

[@JusticeforLiberty]

I really like it , just like lies of p , you just got to get good.

[@CielBlanche]

i'm constantly blown away by how commonly people say "we love darksouls/resident evil/metroid!! we're gonna make one ourselves!!" and then proceed not to spend even 5 whole minutes actually examining how those games work

[@Konfide4043]

I sat down and started watching this video, coffee mug in hand. Went to take a sip, mug had vanished. I blame this guy.

[@Mugthief]

I would never... Admit it.

[@Konfide4043]

@@Mugthief 🤣🫠

[@loneshinobi2682]

I’m maybe 60 hours into lords of the fallen and it’s proven to be one of the most exhausting mixed bag experiences I’ve ever had with a souls like For every aspect of the game I love there’s an aspect I absolutely loathe. It’s.. impressive in how much wasted potential this game has

[@loneshinobi2682]

@@alex.starostin it needs a lot of work still imo. Hexworks have been diligently pushing out patches and are aiming to adjust things like enemy density and aggro range for example. I was initially happy to hear this until I learned that these “adjustments” would only effect standard NG. NG+ enemy density and aggro range will remain unchanged. It’s.. comical. It’s as if they’re refusing to outright let go of their “intended vision” as one of the devs called it. Well, I’m sorry chief your intended vision just kind of completely misses the point of why a good souls game is both challenging AND fun/satisfying to play

[@thrashhhhh]

Impressive how much wasted potential it has. Exactly.

[@MR_DOME]

jumps could have been fun if the mechanic was fixed.

[@MR_DOME]

the original had way too many mobs as well its like lazy instead of investing in enemy s they just said lets just add more. @@loneshinobi2682

[@UrMomsBioWarfare]

60hrs in lol

[@panthersfantre]

I have enjoyed it in spurts but I am frustrated over half the time. I cannot stress enough how BAD the lock on is. And at times, the camera. Just today, I had an enemy hitting me not too far out of range, and I’d try to lock on. Instead my camera does a 180 and now I’m turned around, and getting hit. Truly annoying

[@loneshinobi2682]

I’m glad it isn’t just me then. Almost 60 hours into the game and the lock on just flat out doesn’t work sometimes. Like you I’ve had enemies clearly within my FOV and yet when I try to lock on my camera just resets instead Infuriating

[@lokeleenP]

Dude lock on made me rage so mamy times i cant remember. Fck infinite zombies along with strong enemies and you cant change lock on time

[@brucepreston3927]

While this is true, I have this issue in almost every souls game...Most of my lockon issues came from trying to lock on to the swollen belly things to get an item or pull a bridge...It definitely needs some adjustment

[@lloxu]

15:56 I am actually still baffled by how much of an oversight this is. To me, this is like a literal basic of basics for melee combat. Slower attacks = more damage and vice versa. I literally don't even know what to say. It is a system that rewards you for not going out of your way to master your weapon. Incredible.

[@jankbunky4279]

Even in the video he says running and dodging attacks deal less damage, and multi-hit moves deal different amounts of damage as well. I'm also 100% sure charged attacks also deal more damage. So... What's left? What's the actual complaint?

[@lloxu]

@@jankbunky4279 He said it himself. The attacks you listed are fine and that's good that they do differing amounts of damage. The point is that while 1-handed and 2-handed attacks do different damage when comparing the two, the damage is not dependent on how long the animation is. To directly quote Mug at 16:39: "If my wide reaching, very fast, and very horizontal attacks do the same damage as the slower very vertical attacks, why would I use the vertical ones?" That's the main problem. Most of the time, especially in this game if you're fighting hordes of enemies, you will always want to do the fastest attack with the most damage and preferably long reach. Putting yourself at a disadvantage intentionally doesn't feel good, even if you want to use your weapon's full move set. I don't really understand what your point is I guess. The moves you listed do different damage but that has nothing to do with what he said. Like yeah that's great that running attacks do different damage but that doesn't make up for the fact you aren't rewarded for playing riskier and doing heavier non-charged attacks.

[@Aryaa238]

He actually got that wrong. The slower (R2) attacks don't do more physical but they do more posture damage. Depending on the enemy you're fighting, you can get a few heavy hits in, break their posture, and get a critical hit. Can't get that with the same number of light (R1) attacks. So there is a difference.

[@jankbunky4279]

@lloxu difference in posture/poise damage, situational difference in reach/angle, and simply the fact that heavy attacks can become charged heavy attacks. He literally says "all of your attacks deal the same damage within that stance". This is completely wrong. Just a weird way to phrase it.

[@lloxu]

@@Aryaa238 I see, that’s my bad then. Admittedly I haven’t played the game so I just went based on what he said. Thanks for both of you correcting me.

[@SoFCeO]

I have played many souls-likes and all FS games. I like LOTF, i beat it before most of the patches so I experienced a lot of frame drop pretty much all the time even with performance graphics on PS5. No bugs though thankfully. That in mind, still had a good time and they have since eliminated all the frame drop for me. My opinion is that it could have been better, much better. One thing I think they could change and it would massively improve the experience be to space their enemies out more. I know they made some improvements but it isnt quite enough. Lies of P/Elden Ring/etc did well to give you space between fights in order to take in the environment and appreciate the work the devs put into the scenery. Also, enemy placement is key. Other noted games have the good habit of placing enemy groups or singular enemies at the end of a path so that you can look around on your way through areas. LOTF seemed to place enemies in the middle of paths with no real reason other than to make traversal difficult. Long story short, make exploration flow better and I think this game is a home run.

[@FurnaxIkki]

Two big considerations that I think help shed some light on LotF 2023's game design: 1. This game went through two, possibly three, separate dev teams. Based on a wiki crawl, development of it began in 2015, and if Deck13 (the devs behind the original) was involved in the project it wasn't for long as they were confirmed to be off the project in 2015. CI Games had apparently also been downsizing around that point in time too. The planned release date was 2017. Development restarted in 2018 with Defiant Studios working on the title; Defiant most notable for the rather contentious DmC: Devil May Cry attempt at a reboot. Defiant only lasted a year on the project, but comparing the visual aesthetics and the usages of reds and crimsons in the finished product I suspect that at least a skeleton of their product made it into the finished title. From there, CI Games created Hexworks as an in-house development team to just get the game out. So yeah, troubled production if ever there was one. It doesn't really feel right to go "yeah they learned their lessons from the original" *because probably almost nobody involved with the original to any substantial degree was involved with this one*. 2. The original plan for the game was only to use the Vestige Seeds, and I strongly suspect that the Vestige Seedbeds make more sense in a world where there are no "normal" Vestiges that can be used. The reason why there are so many seedbeds right next to normal vestiges is because the original world design probably was just expecting you to drop your Vestige Seeds there, and the inclusion of actual vestiges being a last-minute decision.

[@halowillneverbegoodagain1868]

Ninja Theory made DmC 2013 u mean ex devs made up Defiant?

[@xian1978]

@@halowillneverbegoodagain1868 No, separate studios. I can't find anything substantial about their participation in DMC. They said they did in a interview about Lords of the Fallen but that's it.

[@FurnaxIkki]

@@TurnersTea I would say it's important to have things in context. Mugthief couldn't be bothered to do any sort of research to familiarize himself with the publisher, the developer team, or the history surrounding the development of the title. And if you're going to go into such a lengthy and bitter critique you shouldn't have such a hole in your knowledge base. Ffs I don't even think he said "CI Games" or "Hexworks" even once in the entire review.

[@FurnaxIkki]

@@TurnersTea See people keep comparing to Lords of DS2 but I genuinely don't inderstand this comparison in the slightest. Briostones are pretty much Lifegems and there are some areas in DS2 that have excessive enemy density (Iron Keep and to a lesser extent Shrine of Amana), but DS2's overall game design is much more open-ended in contrast to the stealth-linear design of Lords. Fewer falls to worry about too, and thanks to the enemy despawns, every enemy you kill in a dense area permanently inches you closer to having a clean path through. I put down LotF to play revisit DS2 (which I will defend as my favorite and best Souls game in spite of its flaws) and yeah, I don't see near-identical games. And I thought everyone was in agreement that Elden Ring was Dark Souls 2 2 already. And regarding the quality of a finished product, the average player might not give two shits. But again, if you're doing an hour+ video essay about how much a game makes you upset, at LEAST have some understanding of the creative heads (or lack thereof) behind the product you're critiqueing. It reflects poorly on a reviewer to not even do the most basic level of due diligence. This is not saying that a game should get a "pass", but blame for the faults of a game need to be attributed to the proper sources. Shadows of the Damned is a terrible game, but the problem wasn't with the dev team led by Suda51, but rather John Riccitiello and the other executives of EA at the time. No Man's Sky, on launch was predominantly a victim of Sony forcing an early release, artificially building hype, and forcing a geeky and socially awkward programmer to repeatedly talk to the press and awkwardly make promises he thought he could keep but he couldn't with no PR coach. Multipart essays have been done on everything that went wrong with Sonic 2006 with no small part of it being executives forcing the devs to do things suboptimally for one reason or another. And CI Games, the publisher, has a reputation for demanding unreasonably short development cycles, which was one reason why Deck13 swore off working with them after the original LotF and they continued to burn through dev teams until they made their own... which in turn also means that Hexworks *didn't* have the option to just pack up and leave like Deck13 and Defiant did. A game's greatness or lack thereof is going to be influenced by the environment in which it was made. One of the reasons Lies of P is so impressive is because it was the first game of this type the devs had ever made, and their previous title was a fairly mediocre MMO. And in turn, a bad game will still be bad if it was "handed off 20 times, cost $30 billion to make, and the whole team worked 100 hours a week for 10 years to make it", but if you're going to get as bitter and vitriolic about it as Mugthief did, you *need to actually bother to know where to assign blame*. Crunch culture in video games is, unsurprisingly, a symptom of executives and publishers squeezing the devs after all. If I play a bad game, but the devs clearly were essentially forced to make the game that why by the whims and mandates of higher-ups, I'm absolutely going to reserve most if not all of my vitriol for them. And if I'm going to make a review of a game I genuinely despise, you better fucking believe I'm going to at least spare the time for reading the corresponding wikipedia page to get some sense of the the development and significant individuals surrounding it.

[@alanthe2]

@@TurnersTea Exactly right. It’s not like these games are cheap on release. If they said we’re going to shave £10 or £15 off the price because development was troubled and we’re not releasing the game in the state we would’ve liked then fair enough, that’s a better informed purchase on our part or not as the case may be. But they didn’t. I don’t really care how informal and friendly their patch notes are and given how much bullshit is in the game even now performance wise, I’m not really in a position to extend them any degree of courtesy on a game that cost £60.

[@NASkeywest]

“Lies of P” weapons were AMAZING because every weapon could be taken apart and combined! I had a dancers sword handle, which was fast and covered long ranges with movements. With a giant axe head on it! The combinations were so deep!

[@Thiccness_Is_Delicious]

There all ugly as sin to though the bosses have the cool ones and there unobtainable and that's the primary reason I haven't played lies of P

[@TheOneGreat]

​@@Thiccness_Is_Delicious??? You can get every single boss weapon. The spectre you can summon even uses the one they drop in the same fight.

[@jaygopinath1694]

​@@Thiccness_Is_Delicious😂Literally could see you never played it please stop giving hot takes on things you never tired

[@samjo9667]

@@Thiccness_Is_Delicious Try not to draw conclusions purely on looks. Also, whaddya mean unobtainable, you can obtain all the boss weapons on your first playthrough

[@RelativelyAttractiveMan]

You should give lies of P a shot. It's so damn good dude. ​@@Thiccness_Is_Delicious

[@Axolotlian]

This is truly the dark souls of video game analysis.

[@Mugthief]

Hopefully it isn't truly The Lords of The Fallen of video game analysis.

[@Axolotlian]

@@Mugthief Good video glad I found you keep it up dude.

[@stevemichael652]

If you repeated the same exact point 100 times during the video then it would most deff be the lotf of video game analysis lol

[@ImTomasi]

I highly recommend checking out Matthewmatosis for more content like this that exceeds the standard youtube analysis like MugThief, but with surprisingly more depth in my opinion. He has videos on Dark Souls 1, 2, as well as the Soulsborne games in general.

[@emoemo247]

They called it Lords of The Fallen because the most dangerous enemy in the game is gravity.

[@arosvalar]

The combat is awful. Level design even worse.

[@smartinachloe]

The analysis is so true, I remember when playing it, asking myself, where are the quiet moments in the game? Where are the interesting weapons? Why are all enemies the same? This game is frustrating and the best phrase that describes the Lords of the Fallen experience is frustration and not challenge, even the multiplayer is broken.

[@FilipOrekhov]

Finished the game this week. Still have PTSD with wooden scaffolding. Also I just don't get the game design, why is Umbral on a timer, you are already punished by being in that realm by removing your second life. Elden Ring is special because it balances the quiet moments with intense ones, LOTF has real pacing issues. But man, im mixed on it, as i enjoyed some of the boss fights. Some armors and weapons looked pretty sweet too...

[@PomaReign]

People who defend Lord of the Fallen with git gud are the same people who defend Starfield's walking simulator that you should git gud at walking.

[@dustindemuth1605]

False

[@briangueringer3673]

It sad. This game was on the door step to being truly great. Almost grabbing the bar in so many places but falling to basically average. I like LoTF but I should like Lies of P more given the difference in polish. Its the same criticism from me. 1. Lamp, such a cool idea but so clunky and underutilized. It should have been a bigger part of the combat. A lamp build would have been fire. 2. Mobs.......nonstop....mobs. mobs on mobs... They could have done a couple of things with this. Had an item that used all of your soulflays to target a elite enemy and cause all the trash to freeze or vanish. The other thing that comes to mind is Remnant 2. Have the little horn noise so you know the mob is coming , giving you the opportunity to postion and kind of pick where the fight takes place. 3. Weapons need more flavor in their move sets. 4. A more diverse interplay between the 2 world would have been cool. Imagine having the ability to knock elites into opposite realms. That would have been fire lol. 5. Fix your f***ing lock on system. Its horrible. I cant tell you the number of times an enemy was right in front of me spawing in or slightly around a corner and it did absolutely nothing. Then tier 2 was locking onto enemies who were so far away that they posed no threat but ignorw thw dude im fighting with. Also, a ton of lock breaking just because we were close and dancing around. Trying to lauch a charge attack only to have it completely miss at the last second because the lock on took a coffee break.... There is some really special stuff with the game but you have to go through it. Sad really. I really hope they do a sequel because this could rival Souls as a contender. It also made me appreciate the Souls/Elden Ring games even more. For all the stupid stuff that happens to you in those games the amount of polish in those game is really high and deserves its spot at the top of the heap. Great vid!

[@Godeias]

The weapons DO NOT connect well! The main reason I quit the game was because the weapon would go through enemies constantly, usually getting me killed, and it was one of many extremely frustrating aspects of this game.

[@stevemichael652]

I’ve noticed myself gradually being worn down by the tedious combat loop of endless mobs, to the point where I was just trying to skip the actual exploration of areas just to get thru. That’s the death blow for me. Not being able to set my own pace and have the game dictate 24/7 what my pace is, is bad. The game is just another souls mimic that can’t get balancing right. And what makes FSW games so perfect is the balancing. LoTF is simply not a fun game to play, at all.

[@baronvonmaur]

The checkpoint system being "bad" has been probably the biggest point of criticism I've seen coming from discussions on this game. I have a strong suspicion that the seed vestiges and the normal vestiges feeling either too close together or just non-existent has everything to do with their complete removal in the original NG+ iteration of the game. There's a few that feel especially egregious, but if you were to completely remove the regular statue vestiges then suddenly having those extra seedbed locations makes more sense. Unfortunately that vision is not on display during NG-0, and compounded with the long-standing videogame logic of "consumable = hoard" means it's a system that has a lot of friction to it. The level designs loop back on themselves in very interesting ways most of the time (the exceptions being the levels where the point is purely vertical progress) but there's only 2-3 of them I can think of where the central point is a static statue vestige, and giving the player the decision to learn the area and establish their own hubs is an interesting take but not implemented very intuitively. At the end of the day this game is an amazing first draft of what could become one of the best souls games that actually iterates on the game's concepts, and hopefully with some more confidence under their belt round 2 will be a new standard. A few more diverse enemy types, expanded weapon move-sets (there's a few tucked away in the game as it, but they're unique and hard to find) and an extra biome or two and they will have a real winner on their hands. Also keep in mind Hexworks was founded in 2020 during peak The Bad Times™and adapting to fully remote work was still wreaking havoc on the game development world, yet they still managed to come so close to greatness on their first attempt in the genre.

[@mac1bc]

They decided to add a ng+0 option with all vestiges added to help with people who had a problem with ng+1

[@davidreese5730]

Ummm, cool points but this is already their 2nd go. They made a game before this, it was also utter garbage, like this trashcan of a game.

[@mac1bc]

@@davidreese5730 lol, it's not trash. First game may have been

[@davidreese5730]

Sorry the standards for games is so low, it's like all the people freaking out on the GTA 6 trailer. Literal TikTok low IQ trailer trash garbage. Unfortunately, the indie space is the only place for real games anymore.

[@rq3167]

Lol

[@sgtflamingo6532]

This is one of the best reviews ive seen. Thank you for being so unbiased. I ADORE lords of the fallen 2023 so seeing a unbiased critic that properly explains potential issues the game has is most welcome

[@Mugthief]

Thank you for watching! I just try to be honest and give sound arguments for my opinions, but you might be right that people tend to exaggerate stuff since it's easier to sell extreme opinions for views.

[@sgtflamingo6532]

@@Mugthief agreed for sure. I feel like LOTF is a very polarizing game. It's just not for some people and I feel like this is probably being amplified by some content creators having an outright vendetta towards the game.

[@Yobolight]

Agree. I like the game, but these are fair critiques.

[@23Butanedione]

​@@sgtflamingo6532you have bad taste

[@sgtflamingo6532]

@@23Butanedione you have a attitude apparently. Go touch some grass.

[@michaelprice3040]

This game is the perfect example as to why I don't listen to reviews, I had a great time with this game but if i had listened to the opinion of others i wouldn't have even tried it and missed out on a personally positive experience. But i do think these critiques are fair.

[@MB-px7iu]

I feel the same way. There's definitely things that I get irritated with, but that comes with the souls like title. I really enjoy this game and it's grungy art style and story. I'm really enjoying my first playthrough and I look forward to playing it again. But if I hadn't impulse bought it and done research into it beforehand, I think I would've missed out

[@tannerkennedy4192]

For me the performance issues are making this game go from a 7 out of 10 to a 4 out of 10 game runs like garbage on ps5 at the moment and I’m not the only one experiencing this other people are too

[@thrashhhhh]

Same but I’d say the performance pushed it from a 6/10 to a 2/10.

[@jankbunky4279]

Runs pretty solid at this point. Not *good*, but it works fine.

[@altoid3453]

My favorite part is exploring areas with lots of twists and turns that lead you to new areas. Lords of the fallen does do that

[@23Butanedione]

Cringe, gameplay is king

[@tawilk]

@@23Butanedione the gameplay is good. this dude just sucks at games.

[@WristyPlum]

100% agree. I’ve finished LOTF and now I’m halfway through Lies of P. There’s no question that the latter does almost everything better. The combat, story, setting, music etc. Lords of the fallen does do one thing better and that’s it’s exploration. Going from one to the other Lies of P feels very linear in comparison.

[@DrayLoco]

@@WristyPlumI know what you mean, but the enemy density and placement almost ruins the exploration. Once I got to Fitzroy it’s like the Devs just gave up on fair interesting enemy encounters and just spammed them with archers everywhere

[@WristyPlum]

@@DrayLoco yeah I agree with you. I don’t think I truely realised how much of a chore LOTF felt until I beat lies of p. I was ready for LOTF to end, I was sad for lies of p to finish.

[@Spawnova]

My biggest complaint is how pointless umbral realm is, they punish you for being in it with endless annoying adds spawning but constantly force you to enter it to get through one door, or climb one ladder or make one bridge, often times just to exit it right after, the entirety of umbral realm is to slow you down and annoy you in every possible way. Don't get me started on why you need to constantly pull floating sections or extend bridges, why is this here at all? it does nothing but waste time and create even more instances of accidently falling off. The only "puzzle" it ever presented was at the start to drop down when getting the skyrest key, every other instance was the developer putting an artificial wall in front of you for no reason. Imagine if they completely scrapped it and focused more on other aspects of the game, such as story or enemy diversity, weapon differences or just more zones or bosses.

[@NoisieBastrdd]

that's the whole point of it. Umbral is dangerous, you shouldn't be there for long. That's why the eye-meter is called dread, friend.

[@Spawnova]

@@NoisieBastrdd I never felt like it was dangerous though, it felt extremely annoying and cumbersome. Throwing endless amounts of trash enemies is not a challenge, it's a chore.

[@crazyorganist1609]

​@@SpawnovaI felt like this. They're just throwing mobs at you and hiding enemies so you get pushed off ledges. The game feels like a massive f**k you to the player.

[@nickelakon5369]

It's definitely a cool idea. Very much in the vain of soul reaver. I feel like there was probably things they wanted to do that they couldn't do and so all the stuff in the umbral world just ended up being weak, time wasting.

[@warcoder]

One of the biggest issues that I have with this game's combat it's the forward movement with each swing, not only because it can make me fall to my death (in my case those were rather rare occurrences), but that I will constantly bounce off walls in those clautrophobic hallways surrounded by enemies, and even worse, I will miss enemies that are right next to me if I don't lock on them, making manual aiming useless. For comparison, in souls games, particularly in Elden Ring, when you are fighting a group of enemies, it's often better to disable the lock on and manually aim each attack to avoid complications with the camera movement and the admittedly annoying lock on system, but it works! You can change direction with each swing and you will hit any enemies close to you, but in LotF you will be propelled 2 meters in a straight line, exposing your cheeks to the damn zombie that was in front of you two seconds ago.

[@jsrobert20]

Really good review. Man I wanted to love this, but the mob density and encounter design is so aggravating. Pushing through to get at least one ending, but have to reset my expectations every time I log in

[@lunasllenas1997]

I never felt as it was that insufferable until some very specific areas (mostly the very last level), but at that point since you can sprint so fast you can just skip them.

[@muramasa870]

@@lunasllenas1997 i cheesed through everything with poison grenade + wither grenade after mid game. Because encounters become mundane

[@Child_Dog]

Currently you also need to reset your weapon runes every time you log in too, because the game inexplicably removes them.

[@GhostMan407]

if anyone has ever wondered why the consumable bonefires are placed so weirdly, or in the game at all, its because right before the game came out, the permanent vestiges did not exist, only after reviewers complained were they added... yeah, its really bad

[@JFrenchman]

Honestly it's kinda crazy how much it makes Lies of P stand out. I know some souls fans refuse to acknowledge what that game accomplished but i can easily call that game my game of the year and a personal contender for my game of the decade

[@smurfdaddy420]

Playing this abomination after Lies of P really made me appreciate that game so much more. It's a masterpiece, and honestly it even outshines from soft games in certain areas. Can't wait for the DLC.

[@TheKnightCrafter123]

They market themself as next gen souls like, with UE5 graphics, high fidelity, etc. EVEN IF you ignore all the crash complains, and the game is actually that pretty, you have no time to take in the views anyway since almost all the time you are exhausted by dozens of small enemies that you might just consider not killing them and run pass through. After all the struggles, bombarded by enemies, and you get to the boss hoping to end the level with a bang. AND....it ends in a wimpy note because of how easy the boss is

[@Jawpuh]

I enjoyed this game to be honest. The graphics are awesome, and I love how many customization options they have. With that being said… i am usually very thorough when exploring areas in souls games, but in this game I felt rushed always from the mobs. I’ve never sprinted through this many areas in any game

[@barliechrown9994]

I think the intent is that you go back through areas to explore further when youve gotten stronger. Ive noticed a fuller experience in the game so far with that method.

[@Chrislaws09]

This guy's is just a cry baby

[@zaccwalker3098]

It's interesting to me that the combat is basically your favorite part of the game. For me it is the opposite. I never feel in control. The tracking distance every single swing has makes it feel like I can't count on a swing the do what I expect it to. I personally feel more like the weapon is controlling me instead of me controlling the weapon. I forget the name of the class I started with. It was the follower of Adyr one with the big axe. Every swing sent me FLYING. And maybe I was not seeing it correctly but it looked like the actual hit box for it was on the handle, not the axe head. I tried for a few hours but restarted with the standard first suggested build. It felt better and didn't launch me around quite as much...but it still doesn't feel very good to me. But, to each their own in the end!

[@Andy_Paris]

The combat is absolutely the most important part of games like this for me. If I don't enjoy it, I simply stop playing, and I don't even ask for a refund, I move on. The controls has to be smooth, and Drak Souls 3 spoiled me in this department. If a game can't play and control smoothly like that game, I don't enjoy it, and I'm enjoying LotF just as much as DS3. I'm enjoying it a lot more than Elden Ring.

[@Nocturnal9720]

@@Andy_Paris If you enjoy it more then that's honestly good for you, but fundamentally it's the worst character movement we've had since Dark souls 2, The running is gimmickly fast and the dodging covers absurd distance to the point it becomes a detriment. Spacing doesn't matter in this game because enemies will latch and pull themselves towards you from unsuspecting distances and you'll be doing the same with some attacks. Almost every fight is a gank and there's no AI there to differentiate a 1 on 1 fight from a group fight. Enemies will pile on you, sync up animations and chase you to the other corner of the map. LOTF wants to push this Observe, plan and execute strategy, Before every big gank fight they will let you see it from a safe distance the issue whoever is they expect you to have magic, or ranged attacks as a secondary form of damage, Magic and Ranged fighting isn't my playstyle I prefer dodging on light weight with a dex weapon for fast attacks. LOTF would not let me play this way at all, you NEED a large weapon that can sweep to clear groups of adds that should be popcorns enemies (one shots), you need some form of ranged attacks to finish of stragglers or other ranged threats before a fight begins or during the chaos. To do anything else feels like your playing against the games design. It's like if Sekiro was the exact same game however wolf had on heavy armour, with a fat roll and a greatsword with slow attacks

[@Andy_Paris]

@@bwhere45 It has one of the best gameplay polish I've played, as good as Dark Souls 3, which is a very big deal for me, because Dark Souls 3 spoiled me. If the combat is not smooth, I can't enjoy it. Maybe that's how? I don't know how else to explain it besides a comparison. Monster Hunter World is another example, super janky combat until you learn the weapon's move set, then it feels good to play.

[@Andy_Paris]

@@Nocturnal9720 Interesting. It seems you haven't played a lot then. For example, the sprinting was updated, and feels heavier and more grounded, not "gimmicky fast." Another thing too is you claim you need a large heavy weapon to be successful in combat. I dual wield in every souls-like game I play, and in this game, it has one of the best combat mechanics for dual wielding I've experienced, way better than Elden Ring. You can switch to a two handed stance very quickly, and there's multiple move sets for dual wielding, and I find myself using all of the move sets, which was suprising. I switch to a two handed stance for single, 1 on 1 enemy engagement, then switch again to engage multiple enemies or to proc status effects on a single enemy. The transitions between stances is very smooth. You say the enemy's aggro is too much, but in the recent update, they shortened the enemy aggro and tether distance. You now have to get closer to an enemy (except for bosses) to aggro them, and they will not chase you for as long if you decide to disengage. I never asked for these updates, it's people like you that complained, and the devs catered to that outcry, because now, the game is even easier than before. Fighting a horde of enemies is not a problem when you kite them to a vantage point, and take them all out in one swoop, and that's just one example. In Dark Souls 2, I defeated every single enemy over and over until they permanently stopped respawning. The combat is the *most* important part of every game I play, it's very fun, _then_ I explore afterwards. If the combat is not smooth and fun, then I quit playing it, and LotF has one of the best combat experiences I've ever played. Think Monster Hunter World. The game is smooth to play, but the weapons feel super janky until you learn it's move set, then it becomes very fun to play. What makes souls-like fun, is learning from experiences. It's about the journey of overcoming hardship, and that feeling you get from accomplishing the game the best way you can isn't found easily in other games. That's one of the reasons Soulsborne games are so popular.

[@Nocturnal9720]

@@Andy_Paris I have 40 hours in this game.... I never really voiced my concerns as much, Also I never said the game was too difficult, It's a slog of repeating enemy's similar move sets and the same ganks and gotcha moments. It was just a chore on top of everything being boring. I didn't tell you not to like the game, I wish I liked it, but it's just not fun to me and game design wise the combat is filled with holes. Also don't fucking preach to me in your glass house on the edge of a cliff, I've been playing souls-likes for over 10 years now since demons souls, Platinum and 100% on every one, I've done many challenge runs because these games are what I live for. Don't take my critique and treat it as if it's invalid just because you like the fucking game, you're allowed and encourage to talk about what's bad with the games other wise they'll just get worse and worse. I haven't played since any of the updates because fundamentally the game is not fun for me. the umbral mechanics is a gimmick and I lost interest after the first few areas, all it does is serve as a glorified respawn system, hide secret doors or alternate routes or platform pulling, it's a wasted idea. The too many weapons share the same category, why the fuck are curved swords in the same class using the same move set as short swords, not to mention a lot of one handed weapons like axes and maces share this move set to an extent, there's like 3 different move sets for dual wielding and the removal of heavy attacks for a "separate" move set usually designed to combat groups . This game teaches you everything you need to know about it after the first main area, it doesn't change and it doesn't become fun, the bosses are a joke or a slog take your pick. the only things I liked in this game where the Artistic style and details, some instances of level design which was ruined by the vestige system and the way magic and ranged weapons are controlled which sadly I didn't want to use anyway because it's not what I enjoy doing

[@oussamadadoua]

90% of souls players pretend their favorite part is the challenge . If they really liked the challenge Sekiro would not received massive crticism for its soo called "unfair difficulty " at launch .

[@RhynnMedia]

Sekiro had bad story, No character customization Very little character interaction Dark souls appeals to hardcore rpg enjoyers so that's the reason sekiro is a story based game and not a fun one like devil may cry It's not rewarding to kill enemies nor is it fun to fight any of them and to include that it's also not as gripping as something like the witcher with exquisite storytelling and immersive settings Sekiro was a dip into action slashers like devil may cry but they failed due to nobody caring about the main character and him being about as dull and ugly as a plank of wood

[@anonymousperson8903]

@@RhynnMedia Lmao. In what world did Sekiro 'fail.'?

[@anonymousperson8903]

Yep, same with their response to Elden Ring.

[@RhynnMedia]

@anonymousperson8903 elden ring is the highest selling souls game to date and yes it has all those things minus a fixed character Also sekiro failed because it's a black sheep of the company sure it's a good game but deviated too much and became boring because of it

[@Baso-sama]

@@RhynnMedia you sound like you just suck at sekiro. there is a really good reason why ongbal has a sekiro profile pic on youtube and keeps returning to that game. check his gameplay. you can do that in sekiro. you can't do anything even remotely close in any other fromsoft game. i am a fan since dark souls 1 came out and i loved it and all the subsequent titles, but sekiro is simply the pinnacle currently. this is not even up for debate, just a straight up fact. fromsoft needs to continue developing it's combat system along the lines of sekiro.

[@christopheryu4225]

my biggest issue is how fucking labyrinthian this game is.playing without a youtube video next to you is just asking to get lost completely and horribly, and thats real frustrating

[@johnhuddleston1986]

This is one of the best games Ive ever played. Exploration, build diversity, and replayability are all top notch. Ran great for me on ps5.

[@smatt7771]

When it comes down to it, I had a lot of fun with this game. All criticisms granted. However what kills me about the reviewing trend is the focus on the amount of trash mobs, which only actually applies to Umbral. The mode that the game encourages you to spend the least amount of time fully inside of because it's supposed to be more dangerous. I'd say "git gud", but I know plenty of people reading this comment will have gotten gud and continued to play all the way to the end just so they could critique the game with credibility in online forums. Then there's me, who had fun

[@dustintownsend8939]

While I did enjoy my initial playthrough of this game, I have to say I agree with just about everything you said and wouldn't recommend it to anyone without a warning. Also, another thing about the custom checkpoints that I didn't see you mention (maybe they patched it) is that they, for some reason, capped the maximum amount that you could hold to 5. This might have been added to cure the horde mentality most people have about consumables, but given you can't easily see how many you have and it doesn't notify you when you hit the limit I'd say it made it worse since you were likely losing the ones you were finding without realizing it. Once I realized that limit I just started using them unless I really wanted to keep the previous, since I knew I could just farm them from the butterfly people if needed and having 5 meant wasting any new ones. Also, getting a platinum in this games is so tedious I actually just gave up, not because it is hard, but because my drop luck is such trash that I can't be bothered to try and get every single armor piece off of the enemies.

[@djhinton101]

A common trend I see with people who don’t like the game outside of technical issues is that it’s not a direct replication of a souls game. Every complaint I heard that wasnt technical was followed by a comparison to dark souls, elder ring, or bloodborne. Those games are good on their own and don’t need a replication. You can’t play this game the same as you played those games. A lot of what you saying is a skill issue. Not saying the games is hard. It’s not, atleast not the first play-through. It’s just requires adaptation that seems to frustrate you. Your too use to a certain structure and this isn’t that structure. You won’t enjoy it unless you de program yourself and stop comparing it. It’s like comparing Street Fighters to mortal combat. They are the same because they are fighting games, but they are not the same games.

[@Mugthief]

Literally never compared it's combat to souls. There are no technical complaints, as I said in the start of the video. Literally started the video saying that it needs to be even more of it's own thing, and that that's why I like it. Take your delusions, add some ketchup and enjoy lunch. Or enjoy the imaginary check from the publisher.

[@dginc.4582]

Seems to me that u didnt even watch his video.

[@djhinton101]

@@Mugthief I responded to what I got out of the video I watched. Feedback is a natural part of posting your thoughts online. I don’t care to validate how you feel about what I said

[@rasmachris94]

I'm only a couple mins in but want to highlight something; I think the reason that a lot of soulslikes get things wrong is that they think that dark souls is just plain hard. So they create artificial difficulty, like long boss run backs, high mob density, wide mob variety in cornered areas and ranged mobs in boss fights to make things hard because that's what souls like fans want right? In reality souls like fans like challenge, with different tool sets to overcome the challenge. The challenge shouldnt feel unfair - 1v1 boss fights, or if more than 1, ways of making the fight easier [godskin duo is notorious for a reason]. You should have indicators to deadly sections to tip players off so that the second time through, or in a different area they are aware that there is high risk there [scorch marks on DS1 bridge]. Even parts that are known to be a bit BS [DS1 swamp toxic mobs], once you clear the challenge the chance that they will respawn is low, or a checkpoint is nearby to circumvent them. Whenever you die in a souls game you dont die because of BS [usually], it's either because you're underprepared, didnt use all your tools at your disposal, or are missing a glaring weakness. Take the Iron Giant in Demons Souls, he's tanky, doesnt take much damage. But as you attack his feet it becomes clear that it's his weakness once he topples over and you can hit his head. If you're a caster you might just straight up aim for the head and realize how much damage it does and keep doing that. So many games trying to emulate Fromsoft have failed specifically because they dont keep things fair in the pursuit of making a difficult game, not a challenging one.

[@AM65396]

Yo dawg. I heard you liked the Anor Londo archers from DS1. So we made a whole game about it.

[@DirtyMike124x]

souls tubers need to STOOOPPPPPPP with the "heights" analogies. Godrick the Grafted happens to be the first major boss of Elden Ring, and after that it seems like not a single video essayist can go even 1 video without a line or quip about "reaching new heights", "achieving new heights", "surpassing new heights", "reaching greater heights". HOLY EFFING MOLY. I know you're not all trying to do it on purpose, I'm not so sure video essayist listen to each other as much, as say I would, who is strictly an in and out daily audience member of at this point, thousands of channels, who largely works and lives alone outside generally minor socialization barring holidays and special occasions. I've listened to video game essays since they began on this platform, and I 100% believe that stupid Godrick the Grafted dialogue tweaked the damn language culture zeitgest ever so slightly, but OH SO PERVASIVELY. I'm not actually shitting on ya btw, this one just happened to be the straw that.....reached new heights with this ole fucking camel!!!!! I gotta see myself out. Solid video btw

[@Mugthief]

I did not even remember that he says that at all, nor saying it myself in the video, but I'm pretty sure it's just a common turn of phrase. Been saying it myself for at least 15 years probably, and I picked it up in music critique circles. Also, not a soulstuber myself. But fun comment, was not aware of this at all but cool read about. Sorry it bothers you so much xD

[@n1lknarf]

50:45 to add the emotional challenge that dark souls lacks, and get you more immersed into the conditions of the world you inhabit. This is a very good thing the devs did, even if they didn't do it on purpose.

[@stevemichael652]

The game is designed where , if they took out most of those mobs, it wouldn’t work. It’s floaty and fast, great swords swing like katanas, there’s no balancing. They need the mobs to offset the design, which is a red flag. It’s more of a hack and slash game than anything else

[@TheWolfLetsPlay]

My biggest problem was that the many enemies lend to a dps test feeling, like: ok I know he will hit me, that is unavoidable how much damage can I do, so I out damage him

[@Mahmudul_Hasan92]

"They made an entire am hour or two long stretch of the game without any of these things (platforming junk). And they got withdrawals so hard that they finished the area of with a tower climb and still had enough in them to make an entire following section all about a tower." I laughed really hard at this. Yeah, game developers should refrain from taking whatever they were high on while designing these levels.

[@Aetrion]

I don't know, I've watched several of these deep analysis videos now, and I never disagree with any of the points being made about combat and enemy numbers, but they simply don't ruin the game for me. Could it be better? Sure, everything can be better, but I genuinely enjoy that positioning is important in this game, and I approach picking apart enemy formations like solving a puzzle. The enemies that are genuinely frustrating to me are the high end ranged enemies that have the firepower to be a huge threat in the whole area, but also enough hitpoints that you can't quickly assassinate them before any horde enemies catch up with you. My biggest gripe with the game is how most of the really powerful weapons partially scale on the magic stats, because making a character without any magic seems like you're just giving yourself a massive handicap. Ranged weapons are extremely powerful, but when your character is pure STR/AGI you feel like you do as a mage in Dark Souls where you can't use most of the really heavy hitting melee stuff. Another thing that really sucks is the rune system, because there are four types of runes and every weapon has a unique combination of rune slots with only very few weapons getting meta slots that can fit anything. The runes are extremely important in optimizing your build, so the rune slots tend to determine which weapon you have to use more than your actual preference.

[@danielcockriel443]

This was arguably the most tedious platinum trophy I’ve ever attained. This review is a breath of fresh air - it seems like the vast majority of Souls content creators are being overly lenient with this game and their critiques. I didn’t hate my time with it, but it is incredibly flawed, which you articulated well. Lies of P (while itself not perfect) brings more polish and originality to this sub-genre by nearly every conceivable metric.

[@senecauk8363]

One of the best analyses on youtube my man. You put your finger on so many of the niggling issues I couldn't put my finger on- frankly, the fact that the damage numbers on r1 and r2 are the same is bizarre, and feels like a holdover from the original LotF and Surge's horizontal/vertical (rather than light/heavy) attacks... but the developers are different? I don't know. Once I learned that from your video, I focused on just finding the quickest and most crowd-controlling-est attacks. Keep it up mate. Edit: the difference between Souls ambushes and the ones here is that the ones in Souls make sense. An enemy hides round a corner to attack. In Lords, an enemy will be tucked behind a load of boxes *with no room to move or do anything* to smash through them. How did it get there?! Did they build the shelves and boxes after the enemy situated itself?!

[@brianwhitt5331]

I lol at that last thought. It does seem like someone said ok stand here...ima build some boxes and shit around you....now just stay there for a few thousand years until someone finally walks by and then jump out and push them off the ledge lol.

[@K4sk4d3]

1:12 So.. they basically only played Dark Souls 2 and decided to take queues from that for their game, got it.

[@aaqibjavedz2569]

You articulated everything i felt in my 32 hours of playtime in this game. I really feel that pilgrim pearch should’ve been like 4th area in the game instead of starting baby zone and it should be a quick one and done kinda thing and not have the same setting repeated.

[@Springreverb8]

Having to buy the key should of told you that area was a kind of bonus area to really test your mettle.

[@ishakuraigami6171]

​@Springreverb8 that key is for a bonus area WITHIN Pilgrim's Perch, and is *required* to get to a mandatory section later. And even if you don't touch any of that area your first time through (which you shouldn't, the enemies are way stronger but it's hard to tell at a glance you shouldn't be there because they are the *same* enemies)... First time through Pilgrim's Perch long overstays its welcome by a lot. It's an area annoying enough as is in the day section, you get through, and it just KEEPS going. It is the worst part of playing through the game again because unlike Forsaken Fen, besides that one door, it is all critical path and way too long.

[@BileDuctBalderdash]

I wanted to love this game and almost thought that I was but in the end it was fleeting. 60 hours in a little after the first fire section and I uninstalled Lords of the Fallen and then I reinstalled Elden ring and started another playthrough just to wash this from my mind

[@alienzeth]

Great review, my biggest gripe was the platform fighting and constantly rolling to your death,I cant understand how the devs though this was fine and not a massive red flag.

[@BurnishedKnight]

Spoiler:you don't have to roll if you don't want.

[@ironmaiden93ofangmar]

That's my biggest issue with the game. Other than that, I personally don't mind the enemy density. I love taking down dense groups of enemies with the tools given to me. But some levels are so frustrating in regards to where you can step and how far a dodge or an attack can take you

[@eduardonavarro4172]

​@@BurnishedKnightidiot

[@SidneyPearls]

The most frustrating thing about this game is the potential it has, it looks gorgeous especially with the new update on PS5. But like you said there’s unfun downright tedious game design

[@Lucius66]

I don't think I saw a single block or parry in this video, except from the dude who invaded. It's actually one of the things I really like about the game. You can block with anything, but depending on the size of the weapon or shield, you'll take a varying amount of wither damage. This is balanced around small shields having a generous parry window while taking a lot of wither damage, while tower shields are harder to parry with but hardly takes any wither damage and might even reflect the blow and open the enemy up for attacks.

[@austin0_bandit05]

Great review. I think the worst part about the discourse surrounding this game are the bad faith arguments. Its either "skill issue" or "this game is literally a 0/10". I liked the game despite these things and someone else disliked it because of those things. Its that simple. The game is seriously flawed and its okay to enjoy it anyway

[@moderatingmoderation1699]

This game lacks that dark souls 2 feeling of hopelessness in the middle of nowhere. Once you got pretty deep in a level you would find yourself going through your inventory trying to figure out your strategy to reach the next bonfire. It always felt very intimate in that sense because you would be in some corner deep into a level trying to figure out the next move

[@l0rdfr3nchy7]

dks2 asks you to respect your environment as much as your enemies

[@samuelmcl.9474]

@@l0rdfr3nchy7 idk if id call "planting cheap gotcha enemy placement" everywhere a way of making the player respect the environment. i think ds1's emphasis on interconnectivity and shortcuts made the player respect the environment much more. it's hard to feel "hopeless in the middle of nowhere" in ds2 because there are so many bonefires and everything is a corridor.

[@l0rdfr3nchy7]

@@samuelmcl.9474 runs past enemies, reaches dead end, gets killed while backed in a corner, "gank squads everywhere game bad!"

[@samuelmcl.9474]

@@l0rdfr3nchy7 i never run past enemies lol. Dark Souls 2’s design issues have been well documented and a quick youtube search will help out if youre genuinely curious

[@l0rdfr3nchy7]

@@samuelmcl.9474 im well aware of the unwarrented hate towards dks2 thank you xD

[@simo4108]

My only complaint is the amount of enemies and their placement. It feels like they were thrown around without any strategic design, and there were way too many of them. The level design is great, but because of this problem it becomes more annoying than anything!

[@antobatta1551]

Great review. I hope the developers get some feedback from this video. The lack of an infusion system and lack of proper scaling is also a huge issue

[@Jupiter__001_]

I think the reason for the damage values being the same with R1 and R2 attacks is so that you have a way to change your mind rather than locking you into the full charged R2 attack, which is the actual heavy attack. Basically, it doesn't work like normal Souls-like light and heavy attacks, but instead like the Jetstream Sam DLC for Metal Gear Rising, which has you chain light attacks followed by a heavy finisher that varies based on how many light attacks were chained before it, and which can either be fully charged to deal good damage or let go early to avoid damage to the player.

[@joshjulrich]

I picked this up recently and am absolutely loving it, so it's fun hearing your mostly negative review. I think the enemy density and level design have either improved or maybe just I'm not bothered by it as much because I have been having a great time. I'm curious how much the patches have changed about the game because it feels good now. (One example I saw in a patch was increasing the reload time on crossbows. Compared to your footage, they are WAY slower now which is nice. Also, watching your footage, it looks like they have made it harder to fall off an edge from forward momentum during attacks.)

[@LumosX]

I played it on release day and had no trouble with enemy density. It's allegedly been reduced since then; I had a fun time but not enough to go back and check.

[@Koalavater]

Probably just a matter of different strokes. I bought it a month ago and it's the first game in 30 years of gaming that I've traded in. The game felt absolutely horrible to play. I played for about 20 hours and realized I was making excuses for it the whole time. I really wanted to like it.

[@kurdtcoben]

I genuinely hope they call the next one Lords of the Fallen 3, just to create even more confusion about the titles.

[@dantealighieri7234]

I'm not gonna lie, I really like the mob/horde moments. It could be a hold over from Vermintide 2 but kiting and crowd control are pretty easy for me. I've noticed that most souls players REALLY don't like this though. The only thing I dislike about the hordes is the ranged enemies and their laser like accuracy.

[@LuckyRaphi]

This game destroyed other souls games for me. I really like the enemy density, movement and how much variety and creativity it brings. Souls games are basically rythm games dodge,r1,dodge,r1. Positioning and other fighting tactics dont matter at all as long as you press the dodge and attack button in the correct moment you win. Lordsborn games feel much more like fighting games to me. I have to consider my moveset and combos to get the maximum amount of damage and hit most enemies. I can't just stand there and dodge because there are 2 enemies coming from behind waiting to get me. I can never be safe because enemies spawn everywhere. On the other hand the enemies are very fair and humanly possible to react to every attack on first try. And after being killed by 6 zombies it feels so good to come up with a better strategy and slash them down without being hit. The quality of this game cant compete with Elden Ring or Sekiro but the general base gameplay idea is just awesome. Most problems are budget related, like enemy variety but let's hope that their next game will be bigger.

[@highdo2244]

Honestly, I had way more frustration with Lies of P than LOTF. I couldn't stand how linear it was and how little there was to discover. I also felt like I had little character expression and build depth. Bosses and enemy design (mechnical not visual) were the worst for me, personally. Every attack had awkward and unintutive timings (hurt even more by choppy animations and quick releases). The bosses had beefy ass hp bars. They all went to "Margit's School of Overly Delayed Attacks." They also went for the Elden Ring style broken summons, consumables, and weapons approach.

[@diggy58]

Little build depth? That’s insane the amount of weapon/handle combos in the game along with quartz and legion arms gives you countless ways to play. Lies of P was the most frustrating for me but ended up being one of my favorites once you “git good” and learn the timings lol. These mobs sound like hell that’s why I’m waiting for LOTF to go on sale.

[@highdo2244]

@diggy58 The handle system is amazing and adds tons of depth, but half of the combinations are ass. Legion arms have linear progression and there are only a few. Quartz is mostly passive stuff Lords of the Fallen has much more armor and fashion. You create your own character/name (it's more of an rpg). You have umbral eye sockets to socket into your lamp. You have tons of ranged and magic options. You have runes that you slot into your weapons, etc.

[@diggy58]

@@highdo2244 I’m not going to lie none of what you said sounds appealing to buy lords of the fallen. Except maybe building your own character. If the bosses are challenging and engaging then I might cop it.

[@highdo2244]

@diggy58 I don't play Souls games for difficulty, alone. If you want difficult and complex bosses, avoid. They are somewhere between DS3 and DS2 in terms of speed and complexity. They are about as easy as DS1 bosses.

[@diggy58]

@@highdo2244 alright good to know. I’m sure it’s a good game just not my cup of tea.

[@coreyrachar9694]

Ratotoskar is someone I don't often agree with but he said something I think is a really good point when discussing the issue of 'souls likes'. He said that everyone has their own idea of what a soulslike even is, and what the best parts of dark souls are. So when we're talking about emulating that what works for one person won't work for another. This I actually agree with strongly. For me, the gameplay and exploration/mystery have always been the best parts of 'souls' and while lotf falls flat on the mystery end the combat and exploration are reminiscent of ds1 and was hella refreshing in a gaming landscape the prizes massive and boring open worlds in every game. Even trying to play elden ring again, a better game in almost every way, just gives me a feeling of 'ugh there are so many caves and shit' and I just can't bring myself to play through it again. Two full playthroughs was plenty. I feel like lotf is a game i will come back too now and again simply because it's a focused, combat oriented game that gets straight to the fun bits. Sure it's a bit tedious in umbral sometimes but that's working as intended IMO. Hope for some DLC eventually to add a couple new areas to the game and beef up the experience a bit!

[@soulmare333]

This is like the 3rd video of his ive watched recently - how does this man not have more subs or more recognition? Wellspoken, wellwritten, clearly recorded videos. I love it.

[@noenduringcity]

I like LOTF a lot but one of the frustrating points is that they designed so many areas in ways that conflict with some of the worst parts of gameplay. Don't have jumping puzzles if your jump mechanic is shit. Don't have lots of narrow passageways if your camera control isn't great. Don't have lots of dense mobs if your lock-on isn't great. Love the game but some parts are indeed frustrating. Looking forward to the next one though for sure.

[@brianwhitt5331]

This game exists in such a weird space for me. I love it....mostly. i dont have the words to explain it. My first playthru clocked in at 41 hours. I had 46 deaths. That is a very small amount i feel for a first time playthru of a souls game. So its easy right? Yes, i guess but why do i have the feeling it seemed unfair during exploration? I just really dont know lol. I would really love to have the option of clearing out umbral to explore. Like after killing red reaper nothing else spawns maybe?

[@DropoutJerome]

I wonder if Lords of the Fallen would be considered a hidden gem in 10 years when people go back and play without having expectations.

[@cooper2211]

More than likely not.

[@jankbunky4279]

Assuming they follow through with their update roadmap, definitely. While I don't think the game is as genius as DS1 and DeS, I also don't believe it has as deep depths in some of the areas.

[@Mugthief]

Edit: If you enjoyed this video, check out my in depth Review on Lies of P kzbin.info/www/bejne/bqbNqICno91gi9k Remember to subscribe to hear my thoughts on the sequel, "The Lords of The Fallens's" in 2027. Let me know what you think in the comments below, and I sincerely apologize for a mistake that slipped through editing with a repeated line. I promise my videos will only get better! Thank you for watching!

[@skulltula1352]

This was a very well written review and you've got me as a subscriber. Keep on keeping on and I look forward to seeing more of your videos in the future.

[@thj9760]

It can happen to anyone. It can happen to anyone.

[@JamieChorley]

I just finished the game like two days ago, and from what I understand, they've dialled back the hordes, but god god, in the last section of the game, there are waves of enemies coming at you in a way that would fit perfectly in a Devil May Cry game. So many enemies throwing fireballs and whatnot, that it would literally drop the frame rate on my 4080. It was what I can only describe as wildly excessive, and to me, that paired with lock on/camera system made parts of the game feel broken, to the point that it's easier to just run through the levels to the boss. I really enjoyed the game overall, but it's a shame it's so heavily let down in certain areas

[@detach103ff4]

I think a more visual representation of "PLACE YOUR SEED HERE" would've helped stop some of my frustation after an incredibly difficult section leading into an equally difficult section. I agree that alot of love has been put into this, and while frustrated, I honestly see what they were going for.

[@kellanaldous7092]

I knew a girl with that tattoo.

[@duskmare0000]

The lamp literally flashes, both in the item icon and it glows brightly on your character model. There's also just the actual vines on the ground. Not sure how much more obvious they could make it.

[@sausage2293]

I think something that's important is taking full advantage of the parry mechanic. Try to avoid dodging every attack from every enemy. Most melee-based enemies have slow and highly telegraphed attacks, which to me means they wanted players to parry more often than dodging. Since I've got better at parrying, the game has become much easier. For example, once you figure out how to parry Hushed Saint off his horse, which has a very generous timing window, the fight can be done very quickly. I think a lot of players go into LotF and play it like Dark Souls, which is why they're getting frustrated. In reality, the combat doesn't feel anything like Dark Souls. I'm not saying the game isn't without it's flaws though, as it can have a lot of moments that are intentionally frustrating for the sake of it.

[@digitalintent]

Once I stopped playing the game like Dark Souls was when I became truly immersed in it. Other than a few areas, the "mobs" of enemies didn't bother me. The lock-on is horrendous though. That is something they really need to work on.

[@Koalavater]

I hate parrying because there's virtually no animation for when you stance break an enemy. They go from mid swing to just automatically being in their downed state. It looks so janky I can't believe they left it in like that.

[@domsnow6418]

Elden Ring probably also my favorite game of all time. My only 10/10 game in my 30+ years of being a gamer.

[@smergthedargon8974]

Tried modern Fromsoft's other games?

[@domsnow6418]

@@smergthedargon8974 I played every FS game multiple times yes

[@smergthedargon8974]

@@domsnow6418 Ah, good to hear. Lovely games, aren't they?

[@domsnow6418]

@@smergthedargon8974 yes, all of them at least an 8.5/10 for me :)

[@smergthedargon8974]

@@domsnow6418 I don't know if it'd be that generous for DeS and Demon's Souls, but they are all great games, truly.

[@ryanvandoren1519]

This game made me realise just how well done the "throwaway enemies" and "trash mobs" are in souls games. The giant flower pioson things! Look awful and dont do much! But for a trash enemy thats pretty sick! Its weird looking but its not in the way. Its there if you want to kill it, but they knew most people will run past it. In LOTF they are all walking zombies... elden ring turns algae into an enemy... Idk this game understands the mehcanics but not much else. I never took pity on anything in LOTF. I delt a TON of mercy kills in Elden Ring.

[@iamjoeysteel]

49:30 I kept maxing out on seeds. I just put seeds down whenever a big arena or near a door that opens from the other side. Each New Game Plus playthrough removes Vestiges. Also you said the run to Sin Piercer in the pirch was a hard run, but there is an elevator right up to the Vestige in the bell room so the run is 30 seconds with 1 basic enemy so I'm not sure what boss you were actually referring to

[@mertgulgun6830]

I fucking loved your script, and elaborate and immaculate choice of wording, without relying on "what!" memes or anything else, I am subscribed and eagerly await new additions to your videos, as I'll be watching your previous work... Well done and please keep on going, we need more sophisticated work in this cesspool that is KZbin...

[@jaedencew]

Same.

[@skpride415]

I agree with many points you made. The biggest problems with this game that stand out is enemy density/placement and their subsequent variety. The one thing i have to disagree on is your complaints about environment variety or lack there of. The way you break it down comes off as almost pedantic. Every single game in this genre can have their areas broken down to the categories you stated. Every fantasy rpg game has some combination of castle, forest, cave, ruins, with every permutation in between. I could just as easily use that vague style of criticism to cut down elden rings world design. "All it is is just a bunch of castles, ruins, and caves centered around a big magic tree with each area being connected by bland forested areas and a bit of water". Obviously that criticism is being overtly simplistic and in no way captures the immense amount of world building that is done which makes each area feel unique with its own story to tell. Each area in lotf has its own feel and lore to flesh out just as many other games of this type do. Levying complaints like this in this manner comes off as an under the collar way of criticizing other souls likes for not being dark souls without having the ability to shrug off your criticism just because you didn't just outright say "it's not as good just because it's not dark souls". It's an cheap criticism that most won't notice as such since it's held under the guise of a vague "it's forest, caves, and castles". Criticisms lacking any real evidence or explanation can be dismissed without evidence or explanation.

[@lukasprochazka9357]

For me personally, the point where I knew that the game was going to be pretty bad was after I killed the tutorial boss, a big armored guy, and I thought to myself 'Oh cool, maybe it's something like Iudex Gundyr and I get to learn his lore later on' and then a few locations later, that same boss became a common enemy. Honestly, the enemy variety is one of the biggest reason I couldn't force myself to finish this game, it's just not fun at all to enter a new area and fight the same enemies you've been fighting for the entire game. Man, this game is such a waste of potential. Thank you for the video, I'm glad to know I won't be missing anything by not finishing the game and that disliking the game wasn't just me being bad at video games.

[@MrDrunkNFunky]

I needed to know I wasn't the only one feeling like this. You did it with timestamps even. 👏🏽

[@OD91MJ]

I agree with pretty much this entire video. The thing that did it in for me was I put the game down for about four to five days and came back to all the updates and it was worst. The lock on was all over specifically for me. You have someone directly in front of you and it will 180 you to lock on some enemy behind you. Wish I bought a physical copy to sell to at least recover some of the cost.

[@rickdiculous2477]

I would be interested to see a sequel or prequel exploring the idea of why ADYR WAS RIGHT!

[@nikochikorita8777]

What really is pissin me off is, when i use the stigmas. Abd you can't even chill 5 seconds to look/read what is going on, because there are instantly 5 enemy's on your ass, what were they thinking designing this? Couldn't they stop spawning enemies for the time you look at stigmas?. That's so stupid

[@Numenorean921]

34:55 you could say this about dark souls 1 as well. Almost every level had you navigating narrow platforms where you could easily fall to your death and placed enemies in annoying locations. This game is heavily inspired by DS1, which is also my favourite souls game.

[@glumdrop4672]

As a relatively recent Souls fan (as of 2020) I think people forget how BS DS1 could be. The Four Kings runback sticks out, not just a gauntlet of annoying enemies, but the AI partner you can summon there gets stuck shooting at a ghost, an enemy thats invulnerable without specific items or weapons, From basically making you waste valuable Humanity if you're not prepared. It's not fun challenging difficulty, it's just a waste of time and resources.

[@Koalavater]

Where did you run back to 4 Kings from? If you did the run back from the bonfire in the tunnel to dark root it was incredibly fast with very few enemies.

[@mikedelgrande5296]

I’m not invalidating your experience, but that sounds like the opposite of what I experienced. I had a good time, especially exploring the interconnected world. There were some decent challenges but nothing too crazy. I’m a long time souls fan and I very much enjoyed LOTF

[@StrunDoNhor]

The game lacked confidence in what it wanted to be. The one interesting thing it did, the whole lantern/Umbral idea, was all it needed to stand out -- instead, the devs seemed hesitant to push that one mechanic very far, and so they stacked _mechanics on top of mechanics, on top of mechanics,_ perhaps believing they would've added more "depth" to the game. I think there was a lot of untapped potential in rapidly switching between the light & dark worlds for puzzles & combat.

[@RealSkelzore]

It's so weird to me, I love this game and I've seen nothing but hate for it.

[@Staring4827]

Are you a big souls player? If not that might explain it

[@ironmaiden93ofangmar]

I love it too. But I understand the criticism. It is what it is. I still hope this game is actually successful enough to continue supporting the franchise

[@ironmaiden93ofangmar]

​@@Staring4827I never played dark souls when the game came out, but I've been a fan in the last 5 years or so. I still loved this game. It may be a soulslike, but it isn't Dark Souls or a Fromsoft game, so I'd rather try to understand why it's different in certain aspects, rather than hate on it. But as I said in my previous comment, the criticism is valid

[@JJsiN84]

I generally cannot believe how good Lies of P feels compared to this game. Lies of P is made by a much smaller developer and because of that, the levels don't have the same scale. I was excited for this game but considering I have beat Lies of P over four times now and Lords of the fallen I didn't even care to do a second playthrough tells me all I need to know. Feeling like you're on a skating rink when you're doing basic attacks, the awful enemy variety, horrible performance, the weird damage values, and the insane lack of move sets with different weapons blows my mind. All medium swords have the same move set and all heavy weapons have the same move sets. Why bother experimenting with a different weapon if you already invested in one you like which is a similar type? All that said, Lords of the fallen did introduce a lot of really cool new mechanics though. Have to give credit where its due, love how spellcasting is done for one.

[@mikeg5039]

Your review is the best ive seen for this game. It all sounds so annoying and overly stressful to not be able to explore without having monsters hound you. Souls reward you by letting you chill after you take out all the monsters. This just sounds rough

[@mateusgreenwood1096]

I hate that every swing makes your character move like 3 meters, is so off-putting

[@bottleofgreed4415]

If you could jump manually like in elden ring, the exploration prospect of this game would have seen a shocking change for the better

[@CaptainQwark4]

51:10 “starting with outright useless ones such as the ones after bosses that lead to dead ends” x2

[@Karpedk]

It's really amazing how small size dev from Hexworks can achieve in this game, some aspect of the game might be lacking need of polish and improvement, I still really like to applause them. I hope they can take all the criticism and continue to improve it on the DLC and the next game. I really enjoy swinging dual weapons and all the grand weapons in this game, Hit stop when you attack connect to the enemies is *Chef's kiss*.

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

I actually really hate the hit stop, especially when swinging through multiple enemies.

[@TenaciousDilos]

Lords of the Fallen had over 400 developers work on it. Their own marketing material says as much. I don't consider that a "small size dev."

[@TheZoobZoobs]

Their design philosophy was "How can we be dicks?" instead of "how do we challenge the player?"

[@alexandercoull220]

Competent and well executed? Thats very generous.

[@Mugthief]

Not at all. I think the game does what it wants to, competently. I just disagree with what it wants to do.

[@bobbyjeff2892]

I think these criticisms are fair, but the rolling criticism isn’t as bad as it seems, because in LOtF you are meant to parry attacks which doesn’t move you as much and gives you chances for guard breaks, however if you’re just dodging it’s not going to be as fun as the game isn’t designed purely to rely on the dodges

[@Koalavater]

The parrying animation looks bad and the "animation" (rather, lack thereof) when you stance break an enemy is even worse.

[@LabyrinthMole]

This is the most intricate analysis of LOTF I have seen. I appreciate the integrity and humility that went into this. I hope to see more videos like this in the future. Adyr was right, too.

[@Ligmaballin]

One thing i love is how fluid the animations are in this game. I hate how "generic" the animations feel in Fromsoft souls games, in Lords of the fallen your character moves dynamically and the attacks also feel smoother, that doesn't mean i think the combat is better, but i do think it feels more fluid and stylish. I also love the gear design of this game, i love how cool and badass every armor set looks, in Elden Ring for example there were only few armors that i actually liked the style of. But that's just me. It's far from the best soulslike, but man does it do a good job at some things.

[@pampasgrass5176]

It's wild that adding a few paper mache enemies breaks people. This game is so easy, it's a relaxing jaunt. And it has amazing world design. You can go somewhere on the map and see where you were and where you are headed towards. Favorite view is seeing the burning lower calrath from afar.

[@Mugthief]

Love it, you're so right! Thanks for the comment!

[@jankbunky4279]

I totally agree. I don't like ds2's ganks, and lotf also sometimes features too many enemies, but by and large how enemies and the player moveset function is quite different. We can soulflay enemies, we almost always have access to pretty quick strong projectiles and aoe's, our movesets are fast and reach far, singular enemies are killed quickly, we have a second life after death which can be regained before reaching a checkpoint... It's obvious that it isn't as simple as "many enemy bad".

[@NASkeywest]

99.9% of people all agree it’s to many.