Progress Capture Devices: ATC Guide, Prusik Minding Pulley, and Micro Traxion

[@andreazemanek6558]

Great video, helpful to just have the camera on the anchor. thank you!

[@gregggagliardi6231]

Tibloc also works well and BD Gridlock can be set up to tend a simple system with just a friction hitch by running the rope through the small end of the Gridlock.

[@glacieradventure4144]

Thanks for sharing more information with the community Gregg.

[@SignedSign]

You should also show the fastest to rig and easiest to carry method vith instant progress capture, by using the petzl tibloc in progress save mode in a oval carabiner, not as smooth as a micro traxion, but less friction than using a atc in guide mode, works great.

[@MikeReid]

Yeah thanks for the comment. I've avoided teaching that because both myself and the guides I work with have had some negative results using it in that way. If it does not catch properly, it will tear the sheath. I have personally torn the sheath doing it this way and I was able to recreate the issue where it would not catch properly and begin to tear the sheath. Now there are some who have never had this issue and are super careful every single time they load it in that configuration. My thoughts are to make videos with tried and tested methods aimed at the beginner / intermediate glacier guide, so that is why I avoid teaching it. Thanks for the comment.

[@namitadas631]

4.40 u can use a quicklink between prusik and pulley,over both rope so the prusik cord does not get caught in pulley and stay separated.

[@rat276]

Alpine clutch and autolock Munter pretty useful here to. Ok, a bit crap on frozen rope were stuff with teeth will always win. But far more versatile.

[@MikeReid]

yeah very true about the Garda and Auto-blocking munter. One of the reasons I stick with these methods is because this series is mostly focused on those entering the glacier industry. Here in Iceland, our teaching methods primarily focus on the ATC for entry level guides and the PMP and Micro Traxion for intermediate guides.

[@johnserviss]

Thanks!

[@alexsakon]

Do you ever use atc guide at the anchor as progress capture for crevasse rescue if you didn’t have micro traction? Or is that too much friction.

[@haukuringieinarsson8383]

Hi Alex, Thanks for your comment, yes absolutely I would use the ATC in guide in case I would not have the micro traction. It´s important to study many different ways to set up the crevasse rescue in case you suddenly loos your micro traction or ATC. There are many ways to the same goal, the most important thing is to do this safe for you and your partner.

[@PathofCultivation]

Is microtraxion good for TRS?

[@glacieradventure4144]

Hi @pathofCultivation thanks for your question - I would always recommend using the device according to the manufacturer recommendation. Microtraction is not considered to be a belaying device. I know guides and other use this as a back up when they are solo climbing and need a device to back them up, in those cases the rope would need to have something heavy at the bottom so the micro can move up the rope as the climber goes up. This is though nothing we would recommend as it´s not safe for the climber in the end according to the manufacturer.

[@nathandevan3114]

Hey if I recall correctly, a crossloaded figure eight follow through knot (like in the prusik example) will pull through at ~5kn and sooner than an overhand. Please check this out for yourself! I think HowNotToHighline tested this concept.

[@MikeReid]

Thanks for the comment. The knot was an overhand attaching the prussic to the shelf. In the very rare case that a poorly dressed overhand would roll, it would still not roll off the edge given the adequate amount of slack. From the tests I have seen, a properly dressed overhand does not roll and if it does, will roll once at most. Anyway, thanks for the comment and the reference in regards to a figure 8 follow through pulling through. Will go check out his video.

[@nathandevan3114]

@@MikeReid Ah that was careless of me. Cool! I use the standard double fishermans as the loop closer, but not so removable.

[@MikeReid]

@@nathandevan3114 Yeah the standard double fisherman's is bomber as a loop closer

[@nathandevan3114]

@@MikeReid Not sure if youtube removes video links from comments.. I found one from Richard Delaney on pulling overhands and eights. Maybe the HNTH channel didn't make one but Richard's results are a little more positive than I remember.

[@chipper442]

Isn’t that first system setup side loading that carabiner?

[@MikeReid]

Yeah, so first I understand why you would think this but this is testing compressive strength of the carabiner as compared to the tensile strength. This setup is accepted as a standard in the industry when using the ATC to both belay and also in guide (plaquette) mode. Just for your reference, check out this chart by Petzl about different ways to incorrectly load a carabiner (www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Examples-of-dangerous-carabiner-loading-). Also, my senior guide friend ran the numbers for the compressive strength of a standard aluminum carabiner and the result was 33.75kn so the safety margin is well into the accepted range. Here is a screenshot of his calculations (imgur.com/rbxBrDp).

[@joelwhite9153]

prusik should be tied with a double fishermans/ barrel knot never with an overhand. Also the knot should be off set, you should never have to knot resting on the carabiner.

[@MikeReid]

Thanks for the feedback. I’m always keen to share important and up to date info with the community. Could you provide an accepted reference for both the prusik being tied with a double fisherman’s and offsetting the knot resting on the carabiner? I understand the idea behind not using an overhand to tie off the prusik as they have been shows to roll (in very rare circumstances) if not properly dressed so I always make sure to add adequate slack to the tails on the case that it does load. Also, I make sure to properly dress the knot. I also understand the desire to not have the knot resting on the carabiner as it would be loading it in an awkward way but I have not seen tests to show that it’s more likely to flip if loaded in that way. I would assume that it pulled apart (both exit strands pulled horizontally apart) it would be something to consider then I would use a fisherman’s knot. Thoughts?

[@sablinger]

the voice sounds like the funny iceclimbing guy that was guest / featured on "how not 2´s iceclimbing introduction."