Progressing from Lat Pulldown to Chin Ups with Robert Santana

Starting Strength Coach Robert Santana describes his method for getting lifters to their first chin up using a lat pulldown machine.
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[@nealesmith1873]

In my own experiece you will be able to do a chinup way before you can lat pull your own weight for reps.

[@byRoyalty]

yup same, I'm nowhere near doing Lat Pulldowns with 215 but can bang out about 9 chin ups on a good day

[@the_robert_santana]

Depends on the pully system but I wouldn't disagree with you

[@alexwilliams5587]

Im 220 and can do 17 clean chins. I can do 220 for 17 on the lat pulldown tho

[@nicholasrawlins7115]

Also depends a lot on the quality of the chin ups. Full RoM chin-ups/pull-ups are a lot different than whatever I see most people doing.

[@theovercomingwarrior4609]

Also depends if you're a fat ass lol

[@fpsoftdev]

Great information in a straight forward video. This was awesome.

[@robertlevy4613]

Thanks Robert! Like these short informative videos!

[@the_robert_santana]

you are very welcome!

[@Jamesz634]

Needed this small plate trick to add weight to the machines.!! Thank you!

[@OhioPrepperOne]

Outstanding, thank you

[@haczabim]

I'm about to begin training peole and this i gold, as everything Santana does!

[@ziggyz2958]

Excellent video with useful information. Thanks. I am hoping to do regular chinups again in the near future. At least now I know how to go about it properly.

[@StonedRambo01]

Gene Simmons son is killing it!

[@depreps772]

Dude. That comment made me spit out my coffee. 🤣 All that was left for him to do was start sticking out his to tongue and wiggling it.

[@StonedRambo01]

@@depreps772 lmao I can't unsee it

[@Menaceblue3]

@@depreps772 🤘😝👍

[@Dundatta258]

😂😂😂😂

[@ronniep9272]

More Paul Stanley

[@jonmeadows15]

Thank you!

[@the_robert_santana]

you are welcome!

[@HAL-dm1eh]

This is pretty timely. I just started doing these again as a long time I got some pretty bad golfer's elbow doing them 5x3 style and progressing aggressively. So now I'm doing 12x3 and only going to progress every couple of weeks instead of every work out. Anyway, it's nice to see this recommended, as I'm doing these pull downs with supinated grip and calling them "chin downs" in my log book.

[@subieguy00]

Try a neutral grip for the golfers elbow

[@the_robert_santana]

that's a good way to do them. You pulling yourself up now?

[@phonymontana4254]

Very informative thank u

[@operationtruth288]

Good Information

[@PlumsYT]

Holy crap that adding a small plate for pregression is EXACTLY what I needed to find the jumps in weight ok the machine were too high for me to progress thank you so much

[@jerrythomas4457]

That’s precious

[@kevanashy]

This guy is good. 👍

[@counterstrike5694]

I started doing this one month ago with 60kg on lat pulldown machine but I haven't used "chin up" technique, but regular "pull up" grip. I have added 1,25kg every time. At first I did 3 sets of 10 reps until I got to 70kg and then changed to 8 reps per set. Now I am at 76,25kg. Planning to lower reps to 6 per set when I hit 80kg (or earlier if needed). My weight is about 113kg and I still can't do any pull ups, but my strength progression has been great with this and other pulls. So thanks Robert !

[@Mukation]

Same here. I did the chin up grip and went from 61kg for 5 sets if 10 to 90 kg for 5 sets of 8 in about a month. (Well yeah, i'm about the same weight as you, i'm 110, can't do a full chin up yet)

[@chaosevolution]

I'm 116kg, at the moment I can do a chin up pulldown with 30 to 40kg for reps. Gonna do 3 sets daily and hopefully in a month I can do 60kg for reps. I don't think I'll be able to a pull up until I get down to 90kg. 116kg is too big.

[@Mukation]

@@chaosevolution nah, do 3-5 sets three times a week, you still need time to recover, so like monday, wednesday and friday (or start on sunday or tuesday etc)

[@counterstrike5694]

my weight is still about the same. I stopped doing lat pulldown when I was at 90kg for 5 reps. It felt too heavy and i wanted some change. my pendlay row is now at 95kg for 5 reps. i have also done yates rows starting from 50kg but now i am at 65kg for 10+ reps per set. supported t bar row has risen from 40kg to 65kg for 10+ reps per set. I can barely do one pull up and with a little jump I can do 3 reps. still to heavy for me to do them so next step is get my lifts up or lose some weight. lot of progress in these months! just keep grinding and never give up!

[@theswoletariat3479]

Been coaching this already for years

[@the_robert_santana]

Good, you are in the minority

[@andrewharris3417]

The pull-up is my nemesis! I spent a while with banded pull ups got down to the thin red band for 3x5. Did it for a few weeks before moving to just me and the pull up bar. Struggled to get 3x3. Was disheartened and gave up. Gone back to barbell rows.

[@the_robert_santana]

Try this method.

[@X3RUBIM]

3x3 is perfectly fine for pull-ups! Just keep doing them and work the reps up, or even add wight later on. Its a great exercise.

[@the_robert_santana]

@@X3RUBIM 3 x 3 is not enough work for this exercise

[@X3RUBIM]

@@the_robert_santana If a bodyweight pull up ist so close to his 1RepMax, that 3x3 is the most he can do, of couse it is. He can adjust for more reps or more weight in the process of getting stronger, add eg cable pull downs for additional volume, depending on his goal. Its strength training, not rocket science.

[@the_robert_santana]

@@X3RUBIM 5+ x 3 would be better or combining reps on the machine. 9 total reps on an assistance exercise is not enough work to drive progress.

[@louissinuel917]

Pull supination gives me bad wrist pain due to my CP (cerebral palsy). Could/would I progress relatively the same using an ez curl bar attachment or a neutral grip attachment.

[@ourclarioncall]

Neutral grip attachment is what I settled on . Feels great

[@trihardbangz9300]

Can't tell if i'm at a night club or watching an instructional video with this background music, but what can you expect from Rip et al.

[@obits3]

Glad to see the channel embracing the value of the lat pulldown machine. I always thought it was silly that Rip would preach progressive overload for all of the lifts except chin-ups where we would hear “just do negatives.”

[@72Dexter72Manley72]

He is saying do negatives because when you do negatives multiple times a week. You will progress faster when trying to do Pullups or Chin-ups. For example this guy would be adding 15lbs a week, with 3 sessions each week. But if he did 4-5 negatives, 3 times a week. And can control his weight. He will be doing full range of motion pullups in 2 weeks. 💪🏾 I'm not saying increasing the weight on a Lat pulldown machine doesn't work. I am saying you can build up to doing pullups faster, if you do negatives from a pull-up bar.

[@Russocass]

No. Read the book if you are going to do such quotes. He gives various methods to achieve body weight chin ups.

[@obits3]

@@Russocass I said the word channel not book.

[@VeritasPanther]

How would you work these in with starting strength? Add these after the deadlift/powerclean?

[@VeritasPanther]

@@alanoreilly8370 so this is in direct opposition to Rip's "lat pulldown is not a substitute for a chin up."

[@alanoreilly8370]

@@VeritasPanther I am not sure, Robert also mentions doing them 3 times a week, which suggests to me doing them at the end of every workout. A clarification is probably needed. I would prob just do them 3 times a week. I started them 3 days a week when I started SS and when it came to phase 3, they were heavy enough to include ass my chin up workout as perscribed.

[@VeritasPanther]

@@alanoreilly8370 That certainly makes more sense. One bro saying I've heard is "You can't do too much upper back work." Thanks for the response.

[@the_robert_santana]

@@VeritasPanther I prefer more frequency. Remember, this is an assistance exercise that we can easily recover from. More wiggle room to modify the programming here. I find that higher frequency moves the lifter closer to a pull up much faster.

[@VeritasPanther]

@@the_robert_santana Thank you for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated.

[@DatBoi-kd9dd]

Keep scapula retracted through all the reps or reset and retract each pull?

[@the_robert_santana]

@Jorick Veraart retracted is better but I like to reset so I can get a breath in

[@TexicanMr]

If pullups are the goal, ditch the lat-pull! Band-assisted pullups and timed hangs are the way to do it. I hear good thing about pull-up negatives (controlled descent), but some people complain of tendinitis.

[@tallisonii]

Based on what?

[@TexicanMr]

@@tallisonii training many people from zero to many with a bias toward park and ninja.

[@tallisonii]

TexicanMr it would be fantastic if you could show us one of those...

[@TexicanMr]

@@tallisonii here's my daughter doing them better than the guys. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4faXoJsoJt0e5I

[@TexicanMr]

@@tallisonii my son kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2ici6Kwd82Br5I

[@FullyAdamatic]

PART II: Kipping pullups on Lat Pulldown. 😂

[@dragonchr15]

If there is a way to kip any movement, crossfit will figure it out....

[@the_robert_santana]

want to be my volunteer?

[@dbozexpat894]

Respectfully, its not actually 100 pounds. The pulleys on the machine is assisting lifter with mechanical advantage. Meaning, the more pulleys (depending on the size) on the machince, the more the pulleys are assisting lifter in the movement. However, generally speaking, the machine does strengthen the lats. You just have to add additional weight.

[@TheCatabolicTrex]

Most lat pulldowns and cable rows are true weight

[@dbozexpat894]

@@TheCatabolicTrex mechanically speaking, it depends on the number of pulleys and there sizes.

[@TheCatabolicTrex]

@@dbozexpat894 Not always, if you compare The weight on an adjustable stack and the weight on a latpulldown, you'll usually feel a massive difference.

[@RasputinReview]

thoughts on assisted chin ups?

[@Russocass]

Mark Rip. recommends them in his book

[@RasputinReview]

@@Russocass thought on neutral grip chinups? since i broke my wrist it's hard to get my wrist into the right position for chins

[@Russocass]

@@RasputinReview if it's because of a injury, neutral grip will still be a perfect vertical pull exercise

[@the_robert_santana]

@@Russocass Assisted stops being assisted when the weight gets too light. That's always been my issue with those machines.

[@bengeorge8663]

I can't even Lat pull down my weight and I can do 10 pull ups in a row. I weigh 135.

[@harris2898]

Well, if you read the title description and also actually watch the video, you might realize, if you are fortunate enough, that the method he is describing is meant for those who CAN'T perform any pull ups. Saying how you CAN perform pull ups, but cant lat pulldown your bodyweight is completely irrelevant. As a big, bulky individual, i had to build a very strong upper back before i could perform any proper pull ups myself, while very skinny friends of mine could perform pull ups a lot earlier and with relative ease. This method is meant for me, the fat guy, not you the skinny guy who can already perform pull ups. I hope you understand the difference. This is meant as a response to all these types of comments ive seen in this comment thread.

[@estebandiiidotv]

I weigh about 205 lbs and can do about 10 chin ups, I’m no where near able to do 205 lbs pull downs

[@fabioq6916]

Kipping chin ups or proper form?

[@jakem7]

Fabio Q I don’t those are a thing. There are just killing pull-ups I think.

[@dandoesntknowsstuff1769]

FREAKING BRANDON

[@72Dexter72Manley72]

People just do negatives from a pull-up bar, 3 times a week under control. In 2-3 weeks you will be doing full range of motion pullups. 💪🏾

[@Russocass]

Started yesterday, average weight, i'll comeback in 3 weeks to confirm

[@72Dexter72Manley72]

@@Russocass Cool man, do 3-4 sets of negatives and do them under control. 3 days a week. Stop when you can't control the decent anymore. Rest and do the next set. Try to add more negatives each workout. 💪🏾

[@phamawa]

Ive read dead hangs are beneficial as well?

[@72Dexter72Manley72]

@@phamawa Dead hangs are good for shoulder health and rehab if someone has impingement issues.

[@Russocass]

@@72Dexter72Manley72 Update, now, after 3 weeks, I can do 1 bodyweight pull up!! Without negatives I don't think I would reach that so "fast".

[@ronniep9272]

Skip leg day and these become very easy.

[@operationtruth288]

Chin ups are not necessary Bent over dumbbell rows are excellent

[@the_robert_santana]

No.

[@OMAR-vk9pi]

@@the_robert_santana it’s just an exercise man

[@robertsantana3272]

@@OMAR-vk9pi yes. go do it.

[@CrookedAvalanche455]

😑 what niqqa?

[@stankakol5195]

Sounds great in theory. Will you track this dude (and post videos) to see if he is ever able to do even one pull up on an overhead bar? I say fat chance!!

[@tallisonii]

This, in my estimation, is the problem with EVERY how-to-get-your-first-pull-up video on the Internet -- *none* of them show an actual progression from legit zero to even one good pull/chin up -- they just all throw a bunch of plausible routines out there. Quite annoying. Do better, Mr. Santana!

[@the_robert_santana]

@@tallisonii He can do one now. We'll post

[@tallisonii]

Robert Santana : but he already looked pretty jacked, so it wouldn’t be surprising if he could do one when you guys filmed - so, again, it doesn’t really demo the process... but I guess if he really went from zero to one, he could describe the process - did he really need a bodyweight cable pull? - and that would gain some cred...

[@tallisonii]

We need to see the process for reals...

[@the_robert_santana]

@@tallisonii There are plenty of jacked guys who can't do 1 because they don't train them and are heavy dudes. I've had 100 lb women and 260 lb UNTRAINED men progress to a chin-up using THIS METHOD. Do you really expect me, or anyone else, to video every single pulldown workout to prove something that is rather obvious. It is unbelievable to me that one can find a reason to argue over the demonstration and progression of a machine-based assistance exercise. How about this? Why don't YOU try the process out, either on yourself, or any of your untrained friends and see what happens. This video is not intended to ignite an academic argument, it's just exercise. If you don't like our methods then go somewhere else and stop wasting your time watching things you disagree with.

[@0vermars520]

I take a huge bong hit before I whack the chin ups. Has helped me ever since. Plus who doesnt want to see unicorns while you're blasting off doing chin ups?

[@caramelshorty4154]

juhuu

[@connorw360]

Why do a pullup when u can go heavier on a pulldown?

[@obits3]

Technically, the pull-up uses more muscles and has a balance component, so a weighted pull-up, in theory, is better than a lat pulldown. Also, I would question the safety of doing pull downs in excess of 200 lbs in some gyms. I would be worried about the wire/locks snapping and sending 200+ lbs of force my way.

[@connorw360]

@@obits3 the heavier you get though a pulldown looks the better option though, as you can control a heavy weight instead of trying to lift yourself up and cheating

[@72Dexter72Manley72]

Because moving your body through space gives better overall results and strength. Then just pulling a bar down. Why do you see a line at the Pulldown machines. But the pull-up bars are Dusty ?. Because the pull-up is a harder movement to do. It involves more muscles and you have to control/engage more muscles.

[@SR-fw4yy]

How would you pull yourself into the seat if you weighed less than the stack?

[@Alexplachkovv]

Kur

[@gumbygreen14]

Let this be a lesson to all: strength training is worth your energy a lot more than getting silly tattoos

[@RazorRamonMachismo]

ok boomer

[@depreps772]

Where's his guitar. Wait. . .what. . . .wrong Santana.

[@jamajamajama]

estonia flag paintjob lol

[@TheSpainy]

Most random video

[@the_robert_santana]

not really

[@aymslifts3926]

The best way to get into pull-ups is still to do negatives, and pull-ups with a band. They really aren't difficult to get to for average people, weighing around 180lbs. If you weigh 250, you should loose weight first.

[@the_robert_santana]

nope. had a guy who was 260 get to 8 unassisted in a row with this method. Women as heavy as 180 too. You are arguing for methods that cannot be incrementally loaded and thus are inefficient to progress at best.

[@oliverallen5324]

The difference between your method, and Santana’s is that his method works for _everyone._ Big, small, old, young, this will produce chin ups.

[@deadrifter]

Brandon should punch that guy

[@the_robert_santana]

He pays him instead.

[@boogerz2000]

According to Rip, using the lat pulldown is just exercise, not training tho.

[@maxxfury13]

But you can use it to train your self to a chin. The same way he uses leg press for people who can't squat

[@boogerz2000]

@@maxxfury13 Nah, Rip would say, "But you can use it to exercise yourself to a chin." Or, "he uses a leg press to exercise someone to a squat." P.S. I'm making fun of Rip's absolutism and "training purity".

[@Alex-lu3pn]

@@boogerz2000 I think you just didn't get the concept of training vs exercise.

[@the_robert_santana]

When we add weight to it for weeks or months it's training.

[@Yonatannakamoto1]

How about he loses some fat

[@adamthemyth]

GOMAD.

[@nathanmcmullen1527]

I disagree that chinups use more muscle than pull up. To me a pull up has more muscle groups involved in the back as opposed to mostly biceps. Im not a professional but thats just how i feel thanks for the video

[@evanwirth3447]

Nathan McMullen biceps only produce elbow and some shoulder flexion, which would not sufficiently produce a chinup. That requires shoulder extension the same way a pullup would.

[@the_robert_santana]

Feelings do not dispute facts.

[@the_robert_santana]

They are not "mostly biceps." The biceps assist and maybe give you couple of extra reps. Hardly enough to be "all biceps"

[@princeangelobaybayan722]

It dont matter how strong he is if hes 250lbs he can’t do a pull up until he lose weight