Progressive Christian Twitter Tries to Cancel Matthew West Over Modesty Video

[@jimyoung9262]

The only thing that West did wrong was apologizing.

[@brando3342]

Yes, that is REALLY disappointing.

[@spacedave2000]

Indeed.

[@hanab837]

I agree. I was so disappointed that he apologized

[@chikedonaldibewuike4867]

He apologized??!!🤦🏼‍♀️

[@G.S.Holland]

And deleted the video. I really want to hear the song now. Anybody have an MP3 of it to share?

[@thirdplace3973]

I still laugh that we are calling them "Progressive Christians" instead of apostates.

[@SusieQ3]

Agreed

[@jbeiler55]

👍👍 I went straight to full atheism rather than phony flag waving xtian so I wouldn't give you guys a bad name.

[@kevenfromsales6830]

People who are for killing babies in the womb and mutilating children genitals and judging people based on their skin color are satanists not christians

[@thirdplace3973]

@@kevenfromsales6830 They can be any number of things, that’s what apostate means; they have abandoned the faith.

[@jbeiler55]

@@kevenfromsales6830 can you show me one example of children having elective surgery?

[@beckyc3127]

Why would we be against a dad telling his daughters that a woman doesn’t have to dress immodestly to be attractive?

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is a complete joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character is what does.*

[@samanthajeffers9339]

I don’t know. Not to mention, the song is also a cute joke about being over protective too. It’s really too bad.

[@JaneSmith0709]

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[@lorrainem.swartzentruber3077]

When I had Christian female friends say JLo’s SuperBowl performance was empowering and not objectification, I knew we had a problem. We should care how we present our bodies to the world. We don’t need to be legalistic about it but we need to prayerfully consider what we chose to highlight on our bodies. Can people lust after you no matter what you wear? Yes. Is it women’s fault that men lust? No. Yet, we need to be respectful to our Christian brothers and try not to cause them to stumble. (In this case, the “weaker brother.”) There is a balance and there is no need to defend either extreme.

[@rachela72]

Yes! As a woman, I didn't find that halftime show empowering at all. I want to align myself and submit to the power of Christ, not the power of my body. I caught so much flak for speaking out against that show... but I stand by my statements.

[@prycenewberg3976]

I'm constantly reminded of C. S. Lewis's teaching on modesty and chastity as found in Chapter five of Mere Christianity. He points out, rightly, that the two are different things and that to disobey one was not to disobey the other (and that to obey one was not to obey the other, they are separate). I find it astonishing that our society now screams out for the right to be immodest, and then insults anyone pointing out their immodesty.

[@saarapollonen8138]

JLo practices santeria

[@ac-jn1iq]

Agree with you There is an extreme that chastises and bullies Christian women for wearing a bikini at the pool or for wearing makeup. Seen it myself. “You don’t know God. You’re wearing a bikini at the pool!” That is just as harmful as only fans culture etc Neither are holy and both come from a demonic spirit Meanwhile, pornography is the number one problem in the church. The statistics are disgusting. And we hardly hear this issue being talked about ! However, we hear the dead horse beaten about what women wear. Hello, the Bible says a person who is born again CANNOT sin. 1 John 3:9 So how is it porn is the number one problem in the church with the overwhelming majority of men partaking ? Because these men are not actually born again. And instead of having a REAL born again encounter with the Holy Spirit, the men are placing bondage on women by bullying them for wearing a bathing suit! “I don’t know how to be free so I don’t want you to be free either” This issue NEEDS to be discussed, but as long as religion and pastoral worship remain as the Christianity the western world knows, it won’t be. There will continue to be an “image of holiness” that lacks the power thereof (Timothy) Christians: grow up!

[@erinkeith8597]

This happened to me. In a women's group Bible study, a member brought up how she uses examples in culture like the Superbowl to teach her girls about modesty and self respect, the leader interjected and actually defended the "costumes" and simply called it a performance that she worked hard to do and said that she was so glad God gives us all different perspectives, as if our perspectives are truth..and the Bible study was on Women's uniqueness no less. I left the group.

[@tinacastrorivera7701]

Modesty isn’t about covering beauty or sexualizing a person. Modesty enhances beauty by respecting your body and allowing others to see you as more than an object. Encouraging modesty does not mean blaming victims of assault or giving predators a pass. It has everything to do with honoring God and yourself. After all, we were made in His image. It is more liberating to dress comfortably or modest and not worry that I may be seen with less value. In fact, clothing that complements the body while covering it is extremely flattering. A Dad singing to his daughters about modesty and teaching them to respect themselves is an act of love.

[@Window4503]

To summarize, modesty is humanizing. Good thoughts!

[@emilykirkman8468]

Very well said!!!

[@kcmthecomgeek]

Indeed. The only time some men hear women speak is when they have their clothes on. Some may say that men are at fault, and perhaps they are here. However, if a woman knows that being half naked is going to keep her from being a voice and only an object, then she should keep her clothes on until she finds a man that will respect her when the clothes are on and off.

[@Rose-xm4og]

Yes.

[@annasthoughtsandmusicalpar2239]

Exactly! I wish that the progressives could take that to heart!

[@rachell7508]

Remember when everyone was canceling Netflix over “Cuties” last year? Yet they bash West for speaking on behalf of loving parents through humor for not wanting their girls to publicly dress immodestly. “Don’t let those girls wear that!” “Don’t tell those girls they can’t wear that!” Which is it? They can’t have their cake and eat it too.

[@jennifervandermeer5034]

Are you saying you were ok with Cuties? The people who have issues with Matthew West’s song have issues with how he is sexualizing clothing and his daughters, how he is telling his daughter what he finds hot. That’s as disturbing as Cuties. If you don’t see the issue with this, then you need to look around and see the people that this hurt. It wasn’t just women who want to flaunt their bodies (they are the easy scapegoats) my issue with this is the abuse survivors who had men who were in power over them exploit this culture and use comments and attitudes like this to abuse them. The backlash was so strong because there have been SO many of these cases. This kind of attitude causes shame, so it wasn’t shaming poor Matthew West, it was a correction and hopefully he will do better.

[@Marlaina]

@@jennifervandermeer5034 ^If you’re a Christian (which is hard to tell from your comment) then the secular feminist talking points need to be viewed with Scripture as the foundation. Look at what it says about human sexuality and how to go about looking and acting as a representative of Christ, both male and female.

[@jennifervandermeer5034]

@@Marlaina I am a Christian and I wasn’t speaking out against modesty, just this song.

[@jennifervandermeer5034]

@Fax with Grizz but he framed it within the context of what he found hot, which is not ok. I’m not against modesty or working with teens where they are at but this was not the way to do it.

[@stlouislord28]

@@jennifervandermeer5034 “modest is hottest “ is just some cliche saying pastors have been saying for (kind of a a joke) for decades. I heard the phrase long before I heard of this song

[@iceman4660]

As Judges so aptly and sadly states - 'And everybody did what was right in their own eyes.'

[@kathyfugere6085]

And people will live with their consequences of their choice

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@jimyoung9262]

So wait...worldly people are offended by Biblical purity? Ok. I'm up to speed, thanks.

[@hminchella7423]

But isnt it other Christians who are offended? or are you saying progressives are worldly - which is fine by me.

[@albertjames804]

@@hminchella7423 progressive "christianity" is such a joke, its made up idolatry. to me progressive...(Im not going to even put christianity after that word) is definitely worldy with God slapped behind the word.

[@brahtrumpwonbigly7309]

@@hminchella7423 You can't be progressive and Christian. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. To claim progressivism is to deny Christ, these people are very worldly.

[@ClauGutierrezY]

Hahaha

[@reflectionsinthebible3579]

Not news.

[@bairfreedom]

I spoke with a liberal Christian who was a pastor that I had when I was younger and not as built up in Christ as I am now. The theme that I have noticed with Liberal theology is that they take their worldliness and change God to match the worldly thing they do not want to let go of. This is a perfect example! There are plenty of other examples Politics, language, supernatural things, etc. You name it, the liberals strip it of God, and then call it God. " Having a form of Godliness and denying its power" The luke warm church from Revelations IS the left wing liberal church of today on steroids.

[@JesusIsComing1111]

Yes they try to make God into their own image

[@austinp1998]

They’re not even lukewarm. Lol.

[@BunniLovePickle]

@@JesusIsComing1111 Yep. They break the 1st and 2nd commandment.

[@nasonyarowell2277]

True. Amen.

[@hminchella7423]

...If we say we have no sin we make him out to be a liar. Pagans will pag but Christians...

[@MakerKashung]

One thing that baffles me 100 percent every single time is how people talk about freedom of expression, and then castigate and almost eat somebody up when they express views of their own, especially like this one. Without even going into the Christian views, this very hypocrisy and double standard behaviour of the woke group is laughable. John Cooper's laugh was a the appropriate response. I can't think of anything better.

[@puigschoolofmusic]

Amen. Blind hypocrisy.

[@JesusIsComing1111]

@@puigschoolofmusic makes me think of this verse Matthew 15:14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.

[@woobiefuntime]

I agree. It was partly satire . People got to lighten up

[@ItsEverythingEuodia]

so so true. it just saddens me that they don't see it.

[@woobiefuntime]

@@ItsEverythingEuodia I'm a history nerd. That includes the bible

[@sorelyanlie2784]

On the topic of purity rings, I remember being desperately heartbroken and disappointed as a twelve year old that my parents weren't into the purity ring thing. So I went and got my own little five dollar copper ring and made a promise to myself instead 😆

[@christopherflux6254]

That’s the way to do it. Make the promise to yourself and God. No need for weird ceremony or public pledges.

[@codyvandal2860]

@@christopherflux6254 True but the past 99% of the time since Christ was here there was always a culture that formally reinforced basic Christian values regarding family and marriage etc. In today climate of overt endorsement of sin such customs are designed to provide some (minimal) counterweight

[@sorelyanlie2784]

@@codyvandal2860 I tend to agree with you. The primary function of baptism by water and marriage ceremonies IS the public aspect- an outward promise to yourself, God, and the body of Christ (the church) that you are placing yourself under the power of the Holy Spirit and this also under the scrutiny and correction of your spiritual brothers and sisters. It helps tremendously with accountability. Nothing wrong per-say with making silent promises as well, but in general I find public promises to be significantly more motivating. That being said, we are told to shun oath taking- to let our yes be yes, and our no be no, so I can see the argument against further promises aside from baptism and marriage, since, technically speaking, promising purity should be part and parcel with promising faithfulness to God in the first place.

[@frankstanley8499]

My parents forced me to wear on until it made my finger all gross and about made it fall off. I took that as a sign this is all dumb.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@c.c.l.9139]

I've never regretted staying pure.

[@lellyt2372]

I regret that I was not saved when I was young. I wasn't promiscuous as someone would define it but I was not pure when I got married and I deeply regret that. We truly are dead in sin when we are unsaved. I am glad for you that you have that beautiful gift from God 💜

[@ClauGutierrezY]

Well done little sister. May God keep guiding you and give you peace.

[@TheEMC99]

@@lellyt2372 Totally agree. My husband feels the same way.

[@annasthoughtsandmusicalpar2239]

I wish I would have

[@southerngardenesse]

Progressives saying they're Christian doesn't make it so.

[@fediliaguzman4440]

I don't mean to be insensitive or to presume to know what Matthew West had to go through - but I really pray that men of Christ would stand firm in their biblical convictions and not back down to the reactions of the world- even if they claim to be Christians- actually even more so if they claim to be Christians. Be strong and courageous- who are these degenerates that dare to go against the Lord and His children. Hold the line! The Lord is with us -Always.

[@jesusisking5163]

Yes!!!

[@annedavidson2315]

Amen!!

[@chriswilletts3621]

I will pray for that righteous strength everyday. Thank you

[@deductivereasoning4257]

I'm a Christian, but I don't like country music so this is a non-issue for me. I thought the song was stupid in concept, poorly composed, and would never pay for it - surely never listen to it in its entirety. I feel all male country music singers are lazy compared to their female counterparts. No matter how you feel about music, fighting each other over a dumb song is worse than fighting over a statue of a golden cow. Nothing about this subject requires strength or courage other than what it takes to force oneself to listen to the awful song in question...

[@sarahcloud444]

@@deductivereasoning4257 I was very into country music for a long time, and I actually agree with the male singers being a bit lazy. Of course, there are many very hard working talented male singers, but most of the songs written and sung by males seem to be the same. It was actually really interesting, I noticed most of the female singers sang about breaking up, getting revenge on their ex, being independent, stuff along those lines, with also singing about a bunch of other stuff. While most of the male singers sang about clubs, bars, alcohol, girls, and stuff like that. And most of these songs also mentioned God at some point. 🤔

[@camerican_gm]

They’re Canceling Matthew for “Modest is Hottest” where there’s a song out there that is titled “We’re Coming for Your Children” that received little to no backlash

[@alifewithluna4134]

Let’s not forget the WAP tragedy

[@matthewbauerle7153]

@@alifewithluna4134 WAP did a great job of making modern sexuality seem vulgar and disgusting. I wouldn’t really call it a tragedy because it totally could have been stopped at any point during production.

[@Ianisatool]

No that song received plenty of backlash too that's why they pulled and took the song down. It goes both ways.

[@aaron5676]

Actually, the "coming for your children" is getting a ton of backlash and the choir has already taken the original video down and issued an apology.

[@pamm2652]

From what I've seen they had a very high level of dislikes to likes on the video. Last I heard they hand about 100👍 and about 5000 👎.

[@jackjones3657]

John Cooper is spot on: 'The way we present our bodies with how we dress and conduct ourselves does matter to the Lord' and therefore it should matter to Christians. I'm reminded of Matt. 5:28. Looking lustfully on another is itself sexual sin and those who study the Bible understand Christ's warnings to those who willingly lead others to sin.

[@amytrex4839]

Dressing modestly does not curve beauty… these woke “Christians” are lost.

[@frankstanley8499]

Purity culture is vile.

[@a.humphries8678]

@@frankstanley8499 sure, to the lost of course.

[@brandonluker3660]

@@a.humphries8678 Purity culture has harmed Christian women too.

[@gregb6469]

@@frankstanley8499 -- Purity culture is vile only to fornicators who want to bang all the girls who are saving themselves for their future husbands.

[@ac-jn1iq]

Purity comes from the heart Has nothing to do with what you wear

[@jimfarnell5813]

Matthew West has no reason to apologize, to take down his video or to run from the progressive Christian cancel culture… Matthew West has every reason to unapologetically keep his video up, to stand courageously in the face of this progressive Christianity cancel culture in the eye and not be moved… We, the church of Christ Jesus, have his back… Matthew West will stand for the cause of Christ or he will be another fall away in the heat of persecution… If he opts to stand, we will stand with him…

[@jsea3828]

AMEN!!!

[@veronicaspencelocke2003]

@@jsea3828 Yes! As I said in another thread, I’m so disappointed that Matthew West actually bowed to ‘the mob’ apologized for the song and took it down!? I think that God and the BIBLE should be our authority! In my opinion he should have NEVER bowed to the mob, he should have stuck to his guns and left it up, I would have stood with him but sadly he didn’t stand, he folded…as Alisa says “be ready to endure” and “ we CAN’T apologize for biblical truth “. BUT as Christians we can be disappointed with someone’s actions but still LOVE them!!

[@guest_5992]

What does that say about him than? That's not someone I will support.

[@jimfarnell5813]

@@guest_5992 On the contrary, Matthew West is a person who really needs our support and encouragement… We need to encourage him to stand against the cancel culture with our backing… Remember, Jesus’ first commandment is we love one another…

[@tara6460]

Amen!!!!!!

[@LilyOlea777]

This is so sad and such a sign of the times. It’s difficult to tell the difference between Christians and the world. When I talk about this with my grown daughters they mostly ignore me. I just pray for the Holy Spirit to convict them.

[@LouisaWatt]

I guess that’s all you can do: pray they have their own relationship with God which prompts them to value themselves

[@hminchella7423]

The devil steals kills and destroys. Nothing new in that but just in the new tactics used. It makes me feel sick that children arent being protected anymore..

[@Sunnysidestoriesandmusic]

I saw my church going cousins twerking on a tik tok video posted on Facebook. they are in their early 20's. :(

[@frankstanley8499]

Well it's dumb and outdated so yea. They gonna not listen. I'm sure you donitninnthe most bori v and christian way possible too. My parents wear like you. Didn't help.

[@Texan_Gal]

We stopped attending service because of this. Church going women look the same as worldly women, and YES it’s a problem for men. Modesty topics are avoided in most churches. As a woman, watching my husband literally stare at another woman in church is the most hurtful thing ever. Men are visual and women KNOW that. This is why pastors should put more emphasis on how to dress.

[@oceanelf2512]

So they don't want a song about a dad advising his daughter to dress modestly because they think that's creepy. But they're just fine and dandy with parents turning their children into transgender. Makes sense...Not...!

[@kathyfugere6085]

A woman called her Dad proudly to say , her baby son is a trans , not even 6 months

[@starhunter9085]

*The concept of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@YahwehisGodandYeshuaisKingiamr]

@@starhunter9085 really? if that's the case than y did God move His saints to write these scriptures? 1 Timothy 2:9-10 Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness-with good works. 1 Peter 3:3-4 Do not let your adorning be external-the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear- but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. Colossians 3:12-13 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. Proverbs 31:30 Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.

[@starhunter9085]

@@YahwehisGodandYeshuaisKingiamr *A whole lot of verses with no context so let let fill that in.* *Timothy: Paul was writing to Timothy telling him that his churches were out of order and he needed to fix them. Since the women were disrupting the services and dressing flamboyantly to draw attention to themselves, he told them to dress down and that had nothing to do with showing skin. As you see, he specifically named expensive accessories as the issue.* *Peter: Peter is simply saying that the spirit is more important than the physical. Doesn't mean you can't dress in flashy attire but just not to get lost in it thinking that's all that matters.* *Colossians: That's got nothing to do with clothing or the body at all so idk why you even brought that up.* *Corinthians: That's got nothing to do with anything we're discussing either. Just because it mentions the body, doesn't mean it ties in here.* *Proverbs: Once again, this is just saying that we shouldn't put all our attention on the outside but to keep our souls clean since that's what we'll be judged on. Has nothing to do with showing skin.*

[@lizpetruzzi7700]

How sad Christians turned on Matthew West for writing lyrics upholding Biblical values - the Lord DOES want us to dress modestly and as you said it’s tongue in cheek.

[@ericthehalfmexican9187]

The “progressive Christians” they are talking about are not really Christians.

[@starhunter9085]

*The concept of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@jeannelima8281]

The problem is: Christians are forgetting that the God of Bible is Holy Holy Holy! He loves you but He will not accept sin, and He will judge you in the end!

[@cullensister99]

@@aestheticPhantasm And yet Paul talks about striving to reach that perfection of holiness that God requires. Not through Paul's own power but through the Spirit for Christ. Paul said he didn't yet attain it but he continually was striving for it by the Spirit. So we still must strive for holiness and obedience counting on God to help us. We pray at all times and through all trials. No we aren't perfect yet, but we strive for it by the Spirit's work in us. We pray and ask for it. Jesus finished the work but he also said take up your cross and deny your flesh. To follow him is to deny our flesh and the world by the power of His Spirit within us.

[@cullensister99]

@@aestheticPhantasm And my point is that choosing to live in sin (practice sin//deny the Word and say we can do whatever we want because of Jesus' sacrifice) is contrary to following Jesus. Salvation is from Jesus alone of course but people still must choose to follow. Same to you~

[@frankstanley8499]

Christians are also forgetting this that your job to judge so keep your mouth shut.

[@cullensister99]

@@frankstanley8499 those with the Spirit follow Jesus. Jesus said he is the judge. However we are supposed to correct one another if we see a fellow brother or sister walking in sin. This is not acting as the Judge, which is God

[@frankstanley8499]

@@cullensister99 yea.....but that's not what happens is it? Things don't go down that way. It's usually a bunch of karen's who thing thier poop don't stink. Attacking others for their belifs. You pepe would burn me at the stake if you could.

[@pamglass6007]

I can’t believe we live in a world where we have to explain this song. 😔

[@klhp22]

So, Biblically, we're to all be modest. We're to respect ourselves as temples of the Holy Spirit. Also, to not defraud others by sexually tempting them... Which respects them, too. We're to glorify God, not ourselves, in any way.

[@2013RUL]

You cannot defraud anyone. That is their choice.

[@chuckporritt6958]

@@2013RUL Yes, it does involve defrauding other people. And that’s because we not only try to turn their heads by exposing our beauty, but we also wink and flirt when we really have no genuine interest in a personal relationship with the other person.

[@cullensister99]

@@2013RUL Jesus talks about not causing other people to stumble. If they are prone to a certain sin (and we can assume a lot of the world is prone to lust), we ought not to wear things that would obviously tempt them. Now, it's still their sin and even if we are modest they may still lust, but at least then we know we are not tempting them outright by bearing it all for them to see

[@a.humphries8678]

Yes!

[@kathyfugere6085]

Is showing your behind a necessary fashion statement or have a dress that barely covers your body and people wonder or the person wearing it will wonder when it will slip off .Kim went in an Holy place with a garment she wouldn't even wear at home .Date rape drugs are to control women , garments are to show who you are but society doesn't always agree , everyone knows now we live in a very violent world so why tempt Fate

[@rachelcampbell9733]

The left are just upset because any fathers are trying to protect their children. I am a grown woman and have a daughter in her 20s and she has always been even more modest than me! Why? Because her body is her body and a temple of the Lord. I am ashamed that there are churches that are upset about the father in a family teaching their daughters to respect themselves and to value their bodies to be their own and not to share with everyone even seeing their bodies let alone teaching them to not allow any people to touch them. Honestly I think the Lord is going to be upset with those "pastors" because of how they are pulling away from His word! The Lord says to keep yourself pure. To treat your body as a temple!

[@hminchella7423]

Well said.

[@kb-mt8vr]

The culture is questioning everything and don’t be a family unit

[@pattycake1234]

I don’t think that’s the perspective of the Christians that disliked the video. A lot of them sadly have come from families, that teach that there worth is defined in how modest they dress and not in what Christ did on the cross for them. I think also modesty depends on the culture you live in. Which I know is super unpopular, but for example men in other parts of the world see topless women all the time because women in that culture never wear shirts. So it would be interesting to see if breasts cause a men to stumble if they’re culture sees breasts as something , that is only for giving infants milk. Another thing I think about is what about shirtless men and how many women stumble because of that. If guys care about girls purity too, would they really be willing to cover there nipples if it makes a sister in Christ stumble. Those are just some thoughts I don’t see the church really thinking about in North America.

[@voxextremos22]

Is t that exactly what Mathew west is doing

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@ozzyb6595]

Jesus was the most kindest and most loving person to ever walk the earth. Yet he is the most offensive. He speaks truth when it comes to our sin. If not him then who? Would he be loving to leave me to suffer in my sin, while I believe it liberates me, and yet I shackle myself to sin. Not many understand this. Christian or non Christian.

[@ItsEverythingEuodia]

so so true

[@veronicaspencelocke2003]

And why on earth would Matthew West actually apologize to ‘the mob’ and take the video down?. I’m so disappointed in him for doing that - the Bible is our authority NOT the mob - and it was a joke! Now it’s like Matthew cares more about the mob and what ‘progressive’ Christians say than what God would think…as Alisa says “ we have to be willing to endure, and we can’t apologize for Biblical truth”

[@chelebelle2223]

Amen!

[@chelebelle2223]

@@veronicaspencelocke2003 So true, indeed.

[@ppowerproductions2953]

@@veronicaspencelocke2003 because he still has to live in this world christian or not he doesn't want it to boil over onto his family and in this climate did what he felt was best he made his statement and then pulled back to try to put back the pieces I don't blame him and I stand with him

[@apracity7672]

Modesty will always be more attractive than immodesty. When someone dresses modestly, it reflects that their hearts are focused on God and not wordly things and I find that people who walk a Christ-centered are so much more attractive in my eyes. Its the same as saying someone who doesn't swear/cuss is more attractive than someone who does. Its the same as saying someone who tells the truth is more attractive than someone who tells lies. If you are virtuous, you are attractive. Purity/modesty is a biblical virtue. Being virtuous is attractive. Just my two cents

[@brando3342]

@Apracity Lady’s fashion in the 50’s is more attractive to me than today’s “whorish” clothing and I’m only 32.

[@geraldbritton8118]

@@brando3342 Men's 50's clothing totally rocked! Suits, hats, polished shoes. compare with today's ripped jeans and logo T's

[@brando3342]

@@geraldbritton8118 Agreed. So smart lookin!

[@jellyfish0311]

@@brando3342 both are ugly

[@2013RUL]

It’s not about being attractive

[@ladymacanrothaich]

Yes! Christianity is about dying to self and what we -want to do-, thank you Alisa that was awesome preaching.

[@juliestrock4847]

When you said that many of the pushback was from moms, it reminded me of the fact that many of these moms justified reading the book, Fifty Shades of Grey. I think we have a Christian culture that think they want Jesus but have no regard for His Word.

[@laurifowler4424]

I was surprised at the amount of Christian friends that watched that filth! I am a Christian, and didn't watch any of them. I have a few Christian friends that didn't, but so many did.

[@iluvsmokeythecat23]

They make up their own Jesus.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@TheDTULSA]

So when we tell our daughters to walk in a crowd at night and be aware of your surroundings because not everyone is up to do good, or let someone know when you're going somewhere alone so we may be able to locate her if something happens, all that is wrong also? Is that her Father trying to control her? Or trying to protect her?

[@bethanyfaber2012]

I love Matthew West...he is extremely talented and such a positive person. It broke my heart to see this happen...people need to lighten up! We have 3 daughters, and we've been singing this song on repeat!

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@theartistengraver]

“Conflict is not abuse.” I heard that recently and I think the two have been conflated in modern culture.

[@alstroemeria227again4]

Good way to put it! I'm writing it down.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@alstroemeria227again4]

@@starhunter9085 Dress reflects the character of a person. People with modesty, godliness and humility in the heart will not dress to call attention to themselves. We live to please and honor God and that includes dress for both men and women.

[@starhunter9085]

@@alstroemeria227again4 *1 Samuel 16:7 makes it clear that God doesn't care about physical appearance. And our bodies are made to reflect God since we're made in His image so showing off your body is fine as long as you do it for Him.*

[@alstroemeria227again4]

@@starhunter9085 If you look at that verse in context, it has nothing to do with modesty. It’s about Samuels mission to find a replacement for Saul. Two points: one, this verse says that only God can see the internal but that doesn’t mean He doesn’t care about the external. Two, we use scripture to interpret scripture. When you look at the whole of scripture, we see that the external appearance is addressed by God in both the Old and New Testaments.

[@mrsangelamaldonado]

YES, YES, YES. Thank you so much Alisa and John for speaking the truth on this, when nobody wants to talk about it or confront the obvious. This is so refreshing to hear you guys, especially since I have felt the same exact way and have not known how to speak out about it. You did such a good job at being respectful and honoring to others while standing true to the Word of God and God himself. “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:10-12‬ ‭ESV‬‬

[@bethanyheyde805]

I’m glad that you addressed the problems with purity culture, but still encouraged purity as a biblical concept. I was so annoyed that Matthew West got the hate he did.

[@wildheart903]

He never should've apologized! The Bible clearly teaches against sexualizing yourself, regardless of age or gender.

[@litpath3633]

that's the real mistake, never apologize when the weirdos screetch

[@reflectionsinthebible3579]

I haven’t done a video on it. Been wanting to. But there really isn’t much on covering oneself.

[@aprildooley3577]

⁷

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@wildheart903]

@@starhunter9085 In Eden, yes. Before sin entered. Coverings were not necessary prior to the Fall. And once we are made perfect with our glorified bodies coverings will again no longer be necessary. But this is now and the beginning or in New Jerusalem.

[@robertpreisser3547]

Can I also point out an obvious double standard behind the “objections”? Serious question: Do women wear string bikinis on the beach, thongs in public, dresses that expose everything but the nipples, because they are comfortable? To impress other women? Or to attract male attention? Maybe in some cases it is a matter of comfort, but in most cases, clearly provocative clothing really is not. Women often wear provocative clothing precisely BECAUSE it attracts male attention. The issue is clothing is not selective. You can target whom you have a conversation with, you can target whom you spend time with, you can target whom you open up to and begin to build intimacy with. But you can’t target who will see your outfits. And so it is hypocritical to wear provocative clothing that will attract men indiscriminately and then blame men as a whole for responding. This is a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too. “I want men to notice me, except for the men I don’t want to notice me.” When they attract the attention from the men they wanted to attract, everything’s fine. But when they attract the attention of someone they didn’t want to attract, suddenly all men are the problem. Modesty in general solves this miscommunication problem. And it will attract the type of man that is worth attracting in the first place, better than immodest clothing.

[@Rose-xm4og]

True.

[@fairtalk5674]

Many great points! Things we can all honestly and easily observe. Intrinsic beauty loses value if there is no honour. There is a lot of controlled confusion, pretense, in the world. It was advertising and feminist agitations that have chipped away at the value and honour of femininity. These have sought to make females competitors with males in the wrong areas, objectizing the female as a body and stripping off honour. We advertise a motorcycle with a near naked woman and she poses happily, seductively. It's all around us! What was sold as liberty only enslaved, made her an object. What will she have to do to be "acclaimed" as equal to the male or superior? It's all a deception. The female was always complete, not needing the false affirmations sold her. No one who is incomplete, or feeling incomplete can be made complete by money, nudeness, fame, etc. The beauty, strength, and glory of a woman is in being female, happily! That said, I like to point out that Gods natural order is that males be attracted to females, clothed or not. That was the way to ensure the preservation of the natural species until the spiritual would come. Adam was attracted to Eve! Seduction was not and is not required. That is abuse, with consequences, as is the the peculiar kinds of abuse males can get up to. The ideas and expressions of seduction and lust are satanic, properly worldly. Only a renewed mind, a disciplined persona, can enforce order on lust and seduction. We must reduce the sphere of evil communication; it corrupts good manners.

[@kathyfugere6085]

Some now don't even know how to dress professional in University classes or their handwriting is at the elementary level, way too small or way to large , teachers could barely understand what some write

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@robertpreisser3547]

@@starhunter9085 This is a bit naive at best. If you want to quote scripture in an attempt to discredit the idea of modesty, then you need to take scripture for what it actually says as a whole. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME… true. But then what happened? When we rebelled against His design, the very first thing Adam and Eve did was to cover their nakedness immediately after their act of rebellion. It’s pretty silly to think that just because Adam and Eve (the only two people in the Garden and in a committed lifelong relationship without any opportunities for temptation to adultery or fornication available) were able to be naked together and without shame cannot possibly be the same situation as (a) a world with millions of men and women, and where (b) people are choosing not to live in committed relationships as God designed. And so, while you are right in a shallow sense, in a deeper sense you have missed the whole point of why the Bible just might in fact endorse modesty even if Adam and Eve were able to be naked and unashamed together. Husbands and wives TODAY are able to be naked and unashamed in each others’ presence. The issue is being naked and unashamed in front of total strangers…or, worse, intentionally trying to attract the attention of someone who is in a committed relationship with someone else. Or simply trying to attract people for sex outside of a committed relationship. All of those things didn’t exist in the Garden, nor were they part of God’s plan for humanity.

[@christopherflux6254]

Completely agree. Whilst ‘Purity Culture’ is very damaging, Purity itself is biblical. Matthew West’s song is a funny parody where Matthew is the subject of his own joke.

[@User_Happy35]

I still don't get what's damaging about "purity culture"? I thought purity culture was about telling kids to abstain from sex until marriage, which is biblical.

[@christopherflux6254]

@@User_Happy35 There’s a difference between Purity Teaching (a biblical thing) and Purity Culture. (not a biblical thing) Teaching kids to value their own bodies and save themselves for marriage is a good thing. 👍 Having weird ceremonies where little girls make a virginity pledge to their father is weird. Especially given that little boys don’t make the same pledge. 👎 The Silver Ring Thing for example has a very noble aim, but is seriously misguided because if someone messes up they have to choose between lying (by keeping it on) or being shamed for taking the ring off. Therefore leaving little room for redemption. A pledge to save yourself for marriage should be made privately between the individual and God.

[@asherjacobson597]

@@christopherflux6254 if the girls are committed to purity, then, you don't need to worry about the boys

[@reflectionsinthebible3579]

@@asherjacobson597 that’s a dumb thing to say.

[@christopherflux6254]

@@asherjacobson597 Nuns are usually committed to celibacy, yet there are Nuns over the centuries who have experienced sexual violence.

[@SavedByGrace-oe1ts]

I loved the modest is hottest video! I was such a mess back in the day, and I really believed I had to use my body to find love. I never had the experience of having a caring father to guide me and love me with the care and love of God. I'm really sad that Matthew West took the song down. He must have really felt defeated, but I wish he would stood his ground with this. I don't think any less of him, but I wish he hadn't taken it down. It was such a beautiful reminder that there ARE dads out there who care about their daughters' well being, and who are LOVING about it, at that! It's such a foreign concept for me. But that's why I loved the song all the more!

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@frameshifted1999]

The melting of the rings sounds exactly like when Mosses went to the mountain what the Israelites did while waiting . They made thier own god.

[@katycat11]

That's what I was thinking! I kept thinking she was going to say they turned it into a golden cow...

[@bellakim9169]

!!!!

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@donnaboucher7]

How about we ignore the people on Twitter. Twitter is a cesspool and let's stop giving them any power.

[@lauriegermaine6506]

Thank you, Alisa and John, for standing strong on biblical principles, and encouraging the rest of us to do so, as well.

[@a.humphries8678]

And, also, a "Queen" would not wear whatever. She represents a kingdom. We are called to deny ourselves, we don't live for ourselves.

[@jacksonFluffy]

So what does Matthew West tell his daughters now? Either he cares about his daughters modesty or he cares about the opinion of others. Can't be both.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@tedtod4489]

As a teenage boy who just got my license not long ago, modest is truly the most respectable thing when I am looking for girls. There are way to many girls my age that are dressing like they want to be objects! It is insanity!!! I can't seem to find a girl that loves the Lord and tries for respect Him. I just can't look at some of these women with respect anymore. Jesus help us all.✝️🙏🙏✝️

[@paulandjenng1623]

Stay true to Christ- he will guide you- love and prayers, younger brother.

[@tedtod4489]

@@paulandjenng1623 Yes. Thank you for the kind words of encouragement. I fell that God had recently called me to preach. But not in a Church... In the streets. God has worked on me and told me that that is what I am supposed to do in my life. But we have to act fast, for the end is near and many will not make it. Remember brother, no matter what we have to endure out there to share the Gospel, it is worth it for just one soul to not be cast into the eternal pit! In Jesus' name, amen.✝️

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@ybh8ful]

"It's hard to remain neutral when the WORLD has lost its ever-loving mind!" yeeeep

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@CombatWalnut005]

There were good intentions but growing up in the purity culture (in my house) it was made shameful to want to look attractive for fear that a man would stumble even those in my family. I was told I was trying to be sexual when honestly I just didn't want to look or feel ugly. Talk about a struggle. I wish my parents would have talked about beauty and purity as a positive thing that wasn't so based on fear and shame. It was hard growing up thinking I was the cause of men's lusts and that made me feel more sexualized than anything. Praise God he has led me to his word and continues to renew my mind on his truths. Healing is hard but it has made me stronger.

[@shadowprovesunshine]

Thank God for His Word and His gentleness & kindness. So sorry u had to go through that. It struck a chord with me when she was talking about purity rings...I remember going to a purity conference when I was 12 "A Garden Enclosed" it was good encouragement to know how God wanted me to live but it was a heavy burden for many, many years when I failed. I wish the dialogue in my home was age appropriately open about sex etc. But that was conference was the only parenting I really had on the subject.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@dawnchrisostom5817]

My children were raised during the “purity” culture. So much had to do with how it was presented. I have three incredible young adult children. They aren’t perfect but are after God’s heart. I can’t ask for more.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@dawnchrisostom5817]

@@starhunter9085 there are definitely differing opinions here and that’s okay. Nudity in the garden was one thing, bringing sin of being as wise as God was into the framework was a completely different compilation. It has nothing to do with nudity.

[@starhunter9085]

@@dawnchrisostom5817 *The main problem with us as humans regarding physical modesty is that we view our bodies (nudity) as being inherently sexual. This is a false premise for the following reasons...* *Bathing, changing clothes, childbirth, breastfeeding, sleeping, going to a sauna, getting a massage (at a spa), nurturing the elderly, nurturing the handicap ♿, locker rooms (for athletes).* *All of these things require (or can involve) nudity but have nothing to do with anything sexual. Why? Because nudity isn't inherently sexual, it's only looked at like that because we make it sexual. So we can't assume that someone showing skin (not necessarily completely nude) is sexualising themselves so we can't say that you can "cause someone to lust" by not dressing "modestly".*

[@dahelmang]

Maturity attracts maturity.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be fully naked with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the person wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@adjess25]

Their complaint is such a stretch...good lord. It's like they couldn't really find anything wring with it AND it pricks at their guilt for their own behavior that they had to come up with something so ridiculous.

[@shadowprovesunshine]

Bingo

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@edwardarnold5508]

"I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes",---(1 Timothy 2:9)

[@Ianisatool]

Should be telling these men the same thing about how they're acting and carrying themselves. Pple don't talk about men being modest.

[@TheMindfulMystique]

@@Ianisatool Cooper rants about that quite a bit in the video

[@jessicacapps8239]

Biblical modesty in this verse is about respect and deference for the poor, not body shaming young girls.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@starhunter9085]

@@jessicacapps8239 *Exactly, people have no idea what kind of context these verses were written in and that's why there are so many misinterpretations.*

[@mimishella4915]

Good for both of you! It's becoming rarer all the time to find Christians who even seek holiness. They call what is bad good and what is good bad. It's a sign of the twisted, evil generation we are now in. When I chose to follow Christ after repentance, He changed my affections to reflect His idea of holiness, not mine. I was a pro-abortion, feminist, gay-sensitive person who didn't see sin in the repulsive way that God does. Like a switch, that all changed. Let God be praised for loving us enough that He leads us from sin and towards Him. He is the measure of righteousness and holiness. So whatever He says is right in my eyes.

[@downenout8705]

I find it hard to believe that you have actually read the book that you believe in. By what sort of perverted morality do you judge the following examples of Yahweh/Jesus slaughtering babies and the unborn: by drowning in (Genesis 7: 22); burning to death in (Genesis 19: 24 ); putting to the sword in (1 Samuel 15:3 & Numbers 31: 17) and putting to death just to show off in (Exodus 11:5), to be "right in my eyes"?

[@rj.bagsic]

If the song pleases the Lord and give awareness about modesty, Matthew West shouldn't remove the song. Better to please the Lord than to please others.

[@starhunter9085]

*The main problem with us as humans regarding physical modesty is that we view our bodies (nudity) as being inherently sexual. This is a false premise for the following reasons...* *Bathing, changing clothes, childbirth, breastfeeding, sleeping, going to a sauna, getting a massage (at a spa), nurturing the elderly, nurturing the handicap ♿, locker rooms (for athletes).* *All of these things require (or can involve) nudity but have nothing to do with anything sexual. Why? Because nudity isn't inherently sexual, it's only looked at like that because we make it sexual. So we can't assume that someone showing skin (not necessarily completely nude) is sexualising themselves so we can't say that you can "cause someone to lust" by not dressing "modestly".*

[@mjlvnv]

I always told my daughter that she should dress in a way that people are drawn to her face not her body. Her face is where her personality is and if people only look at her body, they won’t take the time to get to know who she really is

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@starhunter9085]

@Amelie Perle *Plenty of jobs have a "clothing code", it doesn't mean any particular clothing is evil. You seem to forget something important, Adam and Eve made clothing for themselves before God came into the picture after they sinned.*

[@debiblevins5755]

I wholeheartedly agree, THANK YOU for explaining the importance of modesty!! We are called to purity, apart from the world. We are to make a conscious effort to not cause our brother (or sister) to stumble🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@luannkinisky5339]

Thank you, you two. I'm praying for your voices to be heard, for the truth to be revealed.

[@PoeticChick4Ever]

First off I love Mattew West. Second I got a purity ring for my high school graduation present. I wanted one. I also listened to Pam Stenzel. I remained a virgin until I married my husband. My husband cherished it and cherishes me. Hottest is modest. TRUTH WILL OFFEND OTHERS! Truth will smell like death to thoses who do not believe. I want my daughter to be pure and modest.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@vbishel3989]

Is it possible that West's record label pressured him into deleting his song? That they said that it breached his contract is some way? It seems to me that the industry of Christian music puts unity as number one priority. They embrace both Biblical Christians and Progressive Christians and ignore that there is any difference. They want them all to perform together at concerts. I tried to ask a question of a Christian music blogger pertaining to the beliefs of a certain artist, and he blocked me :-(. He wouldn't even have a discussion.

[@tyeishaleisure]

Hmmmm… Never thought about that. Good question. His Record label is provident label Group which I believe, and I could be totally wrong about this, is associated with Sony music. Sony music is secular. He also has a label in print under his record label called story house collective, so they could’ve threatened him in that aspect as well.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@lisfong]

This was wonderful! Thank you Alisa and John! You guys hit on a TON of amazing points and it was very timely to hear!

[@beckyyoung5565]

I’m. So. Disappointed in Matthew West for submitting to the secular. You guys keep saying “sad.” It’s not SAD. It’s absolutely disappointing that another Christian would fall to the first clap back from a dead and evil society… that we’re supposed to be influencing. Stop building your houses on the sand, Christians! Stand on the ROCK!

[@joelpierce1453]

It's not sad, it's disappointing...do you know what sad means?

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@joelpierce1453]

@@starhunter9085 Before sin entered the world it was appropriate to be entirely naked. With sin it absolutely is not. It's technically true that it is bad character that causes the sin, but no one has perfext character, so we do what we can to help each other where we are weak. I don't drink, not because it's wrong, but because I have friends for whom drinking too much has been a problem. My character is not the issue, but it would be wrong for me to act in a manner that causes my brother to stumble. The same is true for modesty.

[@ericthehalfmexican9187]

@Becky Young Most American Christians couldn’t stand on a rock because the have made the approval of man an idol. They think that we are supposed to be nicer than the Jesus that turned over tables and chased merchants out of the temple with whips. Our King knew what evil was, and called out and confronted it.

[@starhunter9085]

@@joelpierce1453 *Lust isn't about the body, it's about psychological domination. So to say that the body causes someone to lust is like saying a knife causes someone to become a murderer. If someone had moral character, it wouldn't matter if they were surrounded by half naked people, they'd be able to resist adultery, fornication etc.. The Bible is clear that we're all responsible for our own actions not someone else down the road.*

[@jimyoung9262]

"Progressive Christian Twitter"...enough said...

[@monray300]

I avoid situations and places where I would be tempted to " look on a women with lust in my heart", which is most public places. You really as a man, have to get your guard up when you go anywhere. That said, one of the places I see women wearing the most skin tight revealing clothes, is churches. It is at least a distraction, and a possible real stumbling block. I wish we would go back to some of the old public standards of decency and manners, especially at church.

[@jessicawestbrook3730]

Great point. It should be implemented as a clear standard in churches.

[@arianahelvie9897]

I'm sorry!! The church should be a safe haven, for men and women. We do have to guard our hearts at all times, but I'm sorry that even church can be a large source of temptation.

[@mariabean1786]

Well said dear brother, when I dress for church because of love for my Christian brothers I don’t want them to stumble or be distracted - I take extra special care with my clothes and will ask my husband if what I’m wearing looks appropriate, and my beautiful daughter takes a good look in the mirror before stepping out of her door on a Sunday morning it’s all to do with love for others and our love for Christ

[@frenchtoast2319]

My pastor actually preached this one Sunday.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@JESUStheARK]

What a compliment to Matthew that they would persecute him. Sad that he thought he should apologize. Don’t give in to this peer pressure from the progressives.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@StriderGTS]

@@starhunter9085 “I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes” (1 Timothy 2:9, NIV). “Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight” (1 Peter 3:3-4).

[@starhunter9085]

@@StriderGTS *I'm tired of responding to people about 1 Timothy and the second one is just saying that we should prioritize character over looks not that you can't try to look good.*

[@frameshifted1999]

Not surprised since we as a Christian community have an already issue of porn. They are showing their true nature unfortunately, instead of repenting of it and not aiding this behavior.

[@toglorifyGod1]

😲

[@Jaxmusicgal23]

Yes! My hubby approached our pastor for helping because he was slipping back into it and being tempted. Totally blew him off and told him to find an “accountability partner”, changed the subject and never enough it up or asked about it again. Why are people who are struggling the ones that, after asking for help, have to keep up with the leader about their progress with a struggle or sin? Where is the leadership in that? Where was the suggestion of an elder to help and meet to deal or prayer about it…. Anything!!! Nope, our pastor was too obsessed with who should and shouldn’t wear a mask, covert racism and white privileged in the American Church and how we need to deal with it in ours and other progressive ideals…. Real issues get left by the wayside now.

[@starhunter9085]

*The main problem with us as humans regarding physical modesty is that we view our bodies (nudity) as being inherently sexual. This is a false premise for the following reasons...* *Bathing, changing clothes, childbirth, breastfeeding, sleeping, going to a sauna, getting a massage (at a spa), nurturing the elderly, nurturing the handicap ♿, locker rooms (for athletes).* *All of these things require (or can involve) nudity but have nothing to do with anything sexual. Why? Because nudity isn't inherently sexual, it's only looked at like that because we make it sexual. So we can't assume that someone showing skin (not necessarily completely nude) is sexualising themselves so we can't say that you can "cause someone to lust" by not dressing "modestly".*

[@wandacrowell6766]

As late as 1977, women couldn’t get a credit card in her own name. Feminism has done a lot of good. Women wearing skimpy outfits has nothing to do with feminism.

[@shadowprovesunshine]

And all of the domestic abuse laws/protections. Those are VERY good things that stem from it.

[@LukeTaylorPodcasts]

My two favorite Christian podcasts merge again! Glad you guys did another collaboration, it's always a great episode when you do!

[@shayneleavitt5974]

It doesn’t seem like an option for believers to stay out of politics anymore. It’s a war between good and evil.

[@ZussieMakesit]

I’m so happy and thankful for this brother and sister in Christ!! Speak Truth even if it’s not popular, we only have to answer to One person and that’s the Only One I care about, Jesus!! even when it’s hard and the world wants to cancel you. May God strengthen our daily walk to endure these crazy times!!🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

[@jamesdellaneve9005]

The second part of this issue is to have a manly dad who talks about boundaries. Talk about not being cool!

[@dahelmang]

Sad to think of how many people don't have dads these days...

[@LouisaWatt]

Boundaries are the biggest thing for functional relationships and a healthy self-esteem. More parents should be teaching it rather than less.

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@dahelmang]

@@starhunter9085 in an ideal world we would have no shame because we would have no sin. But since we have sin we have shame. Jesus says that to lust after a woman is sin. Is it really kind to make that difficult for your bothers in Christ? Remember he is talking about teenage girls. They spend their time with teenage boys. Is it kind to those boys to dress like Cardi B? Of course it is his responsibility to not lust after her. Just as it is our responsibility not to envy the rich. But if a rich man flaunts his wealth in front of us is that kind? It is our responsibility not to envy him. Doesn't he have a responsibility to be modest and not flaunt his wealth?

[@starhunter9085]

@@dahelmang *We have shame because of our ignorance in not knowing what our bodies represent. The body has nothing to do with lust and Jesus never says that it does. For more on that 👇* *Religion has twisted people's minds up so let me explain it.* *Nudity-The human body without clothes on. This has literally nothing to do with sex or sexuality, it's just the human body in its natural form.* *Sexuality-The attraction men and women feel for each other. This consists of the urges, desires and fantasies that we have on a daily basis. This is the most powerful urge God implanted in us in order to push us to being sexual beings with an urge for connection to each other.* *Sex-The physical act of intimacy between two people (ideally a husband and wife) usually involving intercourse.* *These are the REAL meanings of these things but religion and human stupidity blur the lines between these things and merge them all together even though that makes no sense.*

[@patricia9619]

I am so thankful to God for people like you and your friend Alisa for having the courage to draw the line and saying no! That is NOT biblical!

[@SusieQ3]

It's not surprising that the same people that affirm the confusion of LGBTQ+ do not get a song about modesty. They are not only suppressing the truth of God in unrighteousness, they're suppressing the truth of basic biology, too.

[@annasthoughtsandmusicalpar2239]

I've been making a couple videos about progressive "Christians" doing all that stuff on my channel

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is an absolute joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing does not influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@annasthoughtsandmusicalpar2239]

@@starhunter9085 Seems like you forgot about the part where God made clothes for Adam and Eve after they brought sin into the world through their disobedience.

[@suprchickn7745]

God bless you both for your leadership and your example of living for Christ!. So glad I found your channel, Alisa.

[@Scottyman99]

"Progressive Christianity" is the most confusing concept. How can one say they are a Christian when they don't even believe in what Jesus says in the Bible? It blows my mind and reminds me of the "liberalism is a mental disorder" saying. You really have to have a handicapped sense of logic and reasoning. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?"--Jeremiah 17:9 "Progressive Christianity" makes as much sense as hateful love.

[@brando3342]

I was really hoping someone was going to address this!

[@kelizabethg1]

I think this is the verse they were going for: “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬ The message: “You be you. Do, wear, act the way that makes you happy.” Is to essentially say, “I have no sin. What I want is right.” And to say that while claiming Christ, is a lie.

[@Kelly-wj7xd]

So true I have had my eyes opened I need to be forgiven over and over, I am a sinner. Hyper grace is not a true thing. And the wolves are taking people to hell because when they stand before God and he says I never knew you. That is the scariest verse in the Bible if you ask me, and so many people are following a delusion given to them by the world. It's dangerous.

[@ClauGutierrezY]

Amen!

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@Kelly-wj7xd]

@@starhunter9085 provocative means to provoke. So if you want a reaction that is what you will get. As an artist who has painted life model's I can tell you it is a completely different dynamic. Some clothing will elisite an unwelcome response because it reveals enough to get others imagination going. As a woman I understand that you should be able to dress how you want to but why would you want to dress that leaves nothing private and everything for everyone to see.

[@starhunter9085]

@@Kelly-wj7xd *People are gonna get thoughts no matter what it is you're wearing so why break your neck trying to dress one specific way? We're sexual beings by nature so we're gonna be aroused everyday and that's completely fine. It stuns me how so many people think that someone being attracted to them is a bad thing while believing that nobody wanting anything to do with them is somehow holy. Read the Bible and you'll see that God created us for sexual attraction.*

[@breenarnianwarhorse5051]

So, so good. Thank you both for your honesty and no compromise but with kindness.

[@rachelrodgers8717]

This just makes me so sad… I was so excited and had such joy when I heard that song… it was great!

[@BlessYourCoupons]

This was an amazing conversation! From beginning to end, awesome! Great job!

[@ladymacanrothaich]

Yes! The story of Pilote is an excellent cautionary tale about how trying to please the mob is destructive and we will be held accountable.

[@benjaminofperrin]

What a great collaboration. It's so clear that both of you read and apply the bible. It's great to see.

[@pbear7814]

It is so refreshing to hear a Christian singer/band who lives the talk, unlike Lauren Daigle, Hillsong, etc.

[@starhunter9085]

*The main problem with us as humans regarding physical modesty is that we view our bodies (nudity) as being inherently sexual. This is a false premise for the following reasons...* *Bathing, changing clothes, childbirth, breastfeeding, sleeping, going to a sauna, getting a massage (at a spa), nurturing the elderly, nurturing the handicap ♿, locker rooms (for athletes).* *All of these things require (or can involve) nudity but have nothing to do with anything sexual. Why? Because nudity isn't inherently sexual, it's only looked at like that because we make it sexual. So we can't assume that someone showing skin (not necessarily completely nude) is sexualising themselves so we can't say that you can "cause someone to lust" by not dressing "modestly".*

[@vivalarica]

I couldn’t agree more with everything said here! Unbelievable!

[@jasonpucel8111]

John’s daughter was totally right! The Word explicitly says that a parent who does not discipline their child hates them… Proverbs 13:24

[@mapsandviolins1]

I'm glad I found this conversation. Thank you for tackling this issue with nuance! Be faithful!

[@filipinocatholicschannel5098]

I didn't care for dressing modestly until recently when I studied my faith more deeply. As a Catholic, I believe modesty is not just about dress but in manner and behavior. Does your actions or words glorify God or yourself? That's the question to ask if you want to be modest. So when we go to mass, wearing your best clothes shows you want to meet and receive the Lord with the honor that befits meeting the Lord. Just like if you were to meet your mayor, the queen, a distinguished group, you want to present yourself in the best way or not distract them with your body. I also started dressing modestly for my brother. He was struggling with a porn addiction and sexual sins and I thought that if he saw me everyday in short shorts and crop tops, it was like waving a glass of alcohol in front of an alcoholic. I wanted to help him in a small way even if it meant sacrificing what I wanted to wear. This wasn't a huge deal though because I love fashion and I find ways to look great even if I'm more covered up. I hope people undestand that chastity is hard for everyone and we have to help each other out.

[@starhunter9085]

*The main problem with us as humans regarding physical modesty is that we view our bodies (nudity) as being inherently sexual. This is a false premise for the following reasons...* *Bathing, changing clothes, childbirth, breastfeeding, sleeping, going to a sauna, getting a massage (at a spa), nurturing the elderly, nurturing the handicap ♿, locker rooms (for athletes).* *All of these things require (or can involve) nudity but have nothing to do with anything sexual. Why? Because nudity isn't inherently sexual, it's only looked at like that because we make it sexual. So we can't assume that someone showing skin (not necessarily completely nude) is sexualising themselves so we can't say that you can "cause someone to lust" by not dressing "modestly".*

[@filipinocatholicschannel5098]

@@starhunter9085 yes great points on nudity. I would also add that nudity can be more sexualized or less sexualized according to that society's cultures. In Muslim countries and for example, regency England, the women are more covered up while in tribes in Africa the women are less covered but that is their norm. The point I was making though is for the society I live in today. I live in the Philippines which is influenced a lot by Western culture. I know physical modesty isn't really just about covering up but I can't deny that in my experience here, I get catcalled a lot more when I do show more skin, men in the office or in public have lingered to touch my shoulders or legs when they are bare and on commutes it is just less comfortable having to think about how to position myself all the time so that people don't see underneath my mini skirt. I sometimes tell off the guys that do these inappropriate things but it's really an uphill battle. I can't tell everyone off and not many will truly change or really listen. More than I can change society's perception, I can do more with practical changes in myself. I also have to confess that when I used to dress less modestly, I really did so with the intention of showing off my body to make guys notice me and girls jealous. I know not everyone does so but I think many operate with the 'if you have it, flaunt it' mind set. That's not always a bad thing I think, but when I became more deeply entrenched in my faith, I didn't want that anymore. I wanted people to know me as God's child not just the cute girl with the slim figure. I just wanted people to be attracted to my faith and not my body.

[@katelynzhou965]

Love this mashup, you guys should definitely do this more! It's so wonderful to hear you always bringing it back to biblical truth!

[@theuncoveredlamp]

Really liked the episode. Shared it in a Christian dating group that at least the leadership is very liberal theologically and got a number of positive comments already. My thoughts on modesty are that the topic can be looked at via a number of questions: 1. Is it a sin to tempt another person? Yes, period I don't think this in any way is a matter of interpretation 2. Is it possible to tempt another person with the way you dress? I think absolutely. 3. What constitutes tempting another person to lust after you via the way you dress? I'm not the right person to judge that. 4. Do the way most women in the church dress constitute "tempting a brother to lust after them?" Adult women, in my experience no, and i don't have enough interaction with the youth to say one way or the other about them 5. Does someone tempting you let you off for giving into said temptation? Absolutely not. It's their job not to tempt and your job not to give into temptation period. 6. Are there men and boys who are horn dogs who would still go about lusting after women even if they literally wore burqas? Yes, and the first points, do not apply to those dressing modestly in those situations. 7. It is extremely disingenuous and deplorable to equate "women should dress modestly" with "rape victims were just asking for it, and many of the other progressive comments mentioned in the podcast

[@katherinemccormick5810]

This is a great show. I did not know this moment was happening in the church. Thank you for opening my eyes.

[@EEVictory13]

I teach all my kids to be pure. Boys and girls.

[@tliw2]

Amen!

[@starhunter9085]

*The idea of "modesty" is a joke. God created us to be completely nude with NO SHAME and it was only when we started playing our own game that we started viewing our bodies as disgraceful. 99% of clothing has nothing to do with trying to be provocative, it's just the individual wearing what makes them comfortable. Clothing doesn't influence bad actions, bad character does.*

[@auntpammy100]

Alisa, in a world of insanity you are sanity! Thank you for speaking forth God's truth. When I am discouraged by all that I am hearing from those who call themselves Christians, I know I can come to your channel for encouragement/truth. Thanks to John Cooper as well. You are both a breath of fresh air!

[@voymasa7980]

They focus on the "gouging of the eye", but ignore "use not liberty for an occasion of the flesh"

[@atyt11]

That the church would do anything but praise it as clean, counter-culture truth. I've heard it said that "The truth is offensive, our attitude should not be". Matthew West, don't let the world cancel you. Speak the truth, God knows your heart. There is NOTHING offensive about this wonderful song. As a Father I say all fathers should scream it from the mountain top!!! Compare it to Cardi B's vulger, discusting, degrading, pop culture porno song "WAP". If the church helped cancel Matthew West instead of rising against that absolute trash, I'm afraid at 54, I never imagined saying this, I think I'm ashamed to be called a Christian tonight.

[@katiem9923]

Totally agree Alisa, when you say that this has to do with baggage surrounding our traditional view of "purity culture". Purity culture used to give young women the impression that virginity is what matters, and if you lose it, then you can no longer be pure. Biblical purity has more to do with choosing to turn away from sin and embrace the life that God wants for us. I can understand, I guess, how that baggage could taint the way people see purity as a whole. It sounds like the song was genuinely trying to be funny. Some of the lyrics might have been easy to misinterpret, but I think it's disingenuous to accuse the man of being concerned about his daughter's hotness. I would take it more as something that's meant to be a quip back at a daughter who told her dad that crop tops are hot right now. "You know what's hot? Turtlenecks." Not so much "here honey, let me tell you how to be hot for your boyfriends"

[@starstables_and_SchleichHorse]

Thank you, you two, for spurring us on to stand against a false gospel and lies.

[@a.7525]

I am a big believer in modesty, but I admittedly don't like the message of West's song. It still puts the emphasis on dressing in a way that is appealing to the opposite sex. I dress modestly as a form of obedience and worship, not because I want to please men. I get that his song is meant to be lighthearted and maybe I'm just sensitive, but I really think we need more conversations about what our dress says about ourselves and our Creator, not just the impact it has on men. Just my thoughts on the subject!

[@reflectionsinthebible3579]

But young women come to a time of being available to marry. Before that, they should be more focused on study. There should be some sort of a happy medium.

[@kattmclean9834]

I don’t disagree with the idea that our concern as women shouldnt be on appealing for the opposite sex but there’s the idea also of not tempting our brothers, and loving our neighbor and leading them to sin. His song seemed to focus more on dressing in general, not just in what “the boys want”, that was only 1 line of I remember correctly. But realistically, with teenage daughters, that is what they’re going to be thinking about (what boys want) so to play on that idea isn’t necessarily a faulty idea.

[@starhunter9085]

*The main problem with us as humans regarding physical modesty is that we view our bodies (nudity) as being inherently sexual. This is a false premise for the following reasons...* *Bathing, changing clothes, childbirth, breastfeeding, sleeping, going to a sauna, getting a massage (at a spa), nurturing the elderly, nurturing the handicap ♿, locker rooms (for athletes).* *All of these things require (or can involve) nudity but have nothing to do with anything sexual. Why? Because nudity isn't inherently sexual, it's only looked at like that because we make it sexual. So we can't assume that someone showing skin (not necessarily completely nude) is sexualising themselves so we can't say that you can "cause someone to lust" by not dressing "modestly".*

[@ashlylandis2906]

I love both of you so much!! Huge fan of Cooper Stuff, so glad to see you guys talking together!!!

[@einstein0313]

Progressive Christians?? I haven’t heard of such a thing- yikes! That’s ridiculous

[@triciabarnes268]

I went to a church where some families gave rings to their sons. I gave my oldest son a ring at 12-13. With a good chat. I didn’t grow up in a Christian home, so I was honest and real with. I wasn’t a believer when I had Jacob. So it was just to get him to think and make good choices.

[@magistersteveperkins]

John and Alisa, you are spot on. Matthew wrote a funny song with a solid message.

[@starhunter9085]

*The main problem with us as humans regarding physical modesty is that we view our bodies (nudity) as being inherently sexual. This is a false premise for the following reasons...* *Bathing, changing clothes, childbirth, breastfeeding, sleeping, going to a sauna, getting a massage (at a spa), nurturing the elderly, nurturing the handicap ♿, locker rooms (for athletes).* *All of these things require (or can involve) nudity but have nothing to do with anything sexual. Why? Because nudity isn't inherently sexual, it's only looked at like that because we make it sexual. So we can't assume that someone showing skin (not necessarily completely nude) is sexualising themselves so we can't say that you can "cause someone to lust" by not dressing "modestly".*

[@hopE1224]

I so much appreciate the thoroughness, the thoughtfulness, and the time you both put into this discussion and sharing it with social media. Thank you.

[@aderibigbeadebimpe3354]

"People get so smart they become dumb" This statement is it for me....

[@emmyfilbrun9590]

THANK YOU both so much for allowing the Lord to use you both. You each are a light of Christ. My husband and I just spent this whole time sitting together, listening, pausing to discuss... Such an incredible podcast. Thank you Jesus.