The Competitive History of Marth in Super Smash Bros

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#SuperSmashBros #Gaming #UltimateBattle

[@HyperGlameow]

Ultimates engine is the problem, Marth's core design is actually insanely good

[@Cheeseisboss]

Tbh if his tippers worked perfectly I think Marth in ultimate would be hella busted, he's got so much raw power

[@Exl6243]

@@Cheeseisboss But you could get more consistent tippers if there were more micro movement options.

[@XC11301991]

@@Exl6243 But it's not needed, Sm4sh marth was great without much advanced tech due to consistency of being able to link stuff like jab forward tilt/fsmash, or side B just connecting better. And sure pivoting helped but consistency is whats needed more than anything.

[@BeretBay]

Agreed. I think the devs are still adapting to the new engine and are probably using Marth as a test subject. There is a reason why his tippers are mainly inconsistent. Hopefully, they'll get to the bottom of it soon.

[@HyperGlameow]

@@XC11301991 Overall jab going into everything is a poorly designed character. IMO it would just be better to have more movement options in ultimate, it would buff the whole cast and make the game more interesting. Also the devs need to fix the auto short hop and c stick drift in ultimate.

[@kevinrivera9917]

The tiniest of nitpick but 18:25... Marth isn't Ylissean, he's Altean/Archanean. Ylisse is a descendant nation in which Lucina belongs to. FE lore nitpicks aside. Fantastic video! Love this series.

[@arthurgasparinho2400]

The nutshel: Melee: he is really good. Brawl: He is quickie and grab is cool. SM4SH: MKLeo exists. Ultimate: So... Lucina exists and you can't move my boi, sorry.

[@dooterscoots2901]

I wish marth was as good as lucina, he's so much more fun to play and play against.

[@notrentu100]

Even if his tippers are as consistent as in smash 4 he would still be worse than Lucina. Marth had more range in smash 4 thats why a lot of people say he was better. Having no sourspot is better i think.

[@gonkdroidincarnate4237]

Yea i main him

[@igirjei3717]

NotRentu For one, marth didn't have that much more range in that game, it was because marth was slightly taller and bigger as well as the visual effects that make it look that way. Also his tippers are the same on every move but f-air, u-air, b-air, and DB as they were in S4, and removing sourspots would be a huge nerf on marth

[@notrentu100]

@@igirjei3717 i think no sourspots are still better but i can see what you mean.

[@PrettyKoolCrocodile]

Agreed

[@Thelowestofthelowtiers]

Bonk: mikeHAZE uh...innovated the Ice Climbers match up. The innovation: 11:53

[@dal4268]

Aaaaaahhhhhh!

[@theavsky1428]

As a Marth fan in general, this hurt to watch as much as I loved watching it

[@Wiziliz]

He's my favourite swordie in Smash history, being my first main, but I don't care to play him too much in Ultimate. :/

[@vjoe5389]

Melee: One of the best characters in the game Brawl: Low top tier or high tier, still one of the better characters in the game 4: Started off as one of the worst characters in the game but gradually became better with patches and a growing meta. Some say Lucina is better, some say Marth is better, some say Leo carried the character, and some say that Marth and Lucina are both about the same on the tier list Ultimate: Not a bad character but not great either, is severely out shined by lucina, roy, and chrom and just isn't consistent with the tippers. Roy and Chrom are seen as cool characters but with so many cool and flashy characters in the game, unless you live in japan, Lucina is one of, if not, THE most boring and generic character in the game. Marth could see some buffs like with smash 4 but we won't truly know until the next couple of updates to see if Marth becomes good or not

[@antonypistachio5476]

Honestly he's really bad in Ultimate. Even Leo kept trying him post buffs and there's a negligible change at best. Tippers still are not consistent (the only consistent one is ironically short hop up air for no reason) and his sourspot absolutely sucks. Lucina is far far better, Roy and Chrom do way more damage and control the stage much easier and even Corrin is high tier right now. Only FE character worse is probably Robin since even Byleth has superior range and access to kill combos and a strong projectile.

[@TUZOIVAN16]

@@antonypistachio5476 Actually, all tippers are consistent, except fsmash and DB. Which are precisely the two moves more needed to kill earlier than 100%.

[@antonypistachio5476]

@@TUZOIVAN16 Nah. Go test him. Even Leo thought he was better at first then on stream he said he noticed no difference after longer playtesting. The hitbox is so stupid. You can perfectly space a Nair or Fair and still get a sourspot. And side b also never gets the full tipper (granted if it was consistent he would immediately shoot up to top tier given how obscenely strong that move is).

[@TUZOIVAN16]

@@antonypistachio5476 Nah, mate, I have been labbing Marth almost everyday since day 1. Tilts have always been easy tippers. Same with Nair 2, though hitting it after both hits is a little hard. But not as hard as tipper fair and bair were, which they are a little easier now. Problem is not enough kill power for how hard they still are. Tipper dsmash, tilts, nair, dair, upair and neutral b are easy to get. Fsmash and DB are RNG moves.

[@maxwellmegagamer8535]

And why is Lucina better? Cuz they have even damage towards tipper and not tipper? Lucina are noobs that can’t hit tippers so they use a different character as a crutch.

[@calibvr]

I still main him, if he gets buffed enough them Lucina mains gonna get insulted by me for calling him shit

[@worldsboss]

I really love this series. The scripts are always very well-written and researched!

[@lordbaccoon1821]

"In ultimate, Marth is mostly the character top players or lucina mains break out when they are bored" As a lucina main i have never heard a statement so true in my life that it kinda hurt

[@kyoshiro6043]

well lucina is boring af yea :/

[@itriggerpeople4433]

In an alternate universe, Marth would have never made it in Smash and "Fire emblem bros" wouldn't even be a meme 🤔

[@bigtasty8231]

RIP Ken's legacy tho

[@sdw-hv5ko]

2:00 yo what are you talking about this Marth is crispy

[@HJ-bs6jz]

Next do more from Smash 64, finish all the 64 characters!

[@maartensmitsman8911]

but no yoshi

[@biandanxious3438]

Fire emblem isn’t a dating simulator. You just have a romantic scene at the end of the game.

[@kremeykrizp9458]

Finally I've been asking for this since the first one

[@Ellipses02]

Since*.....I’m sorry I had to do it😭

[@Katanawiz]

Me too

[@cesardelgado5138]

As a Marth main, I truly hope he gets some buffs. his tipper's inconsistence became very annoying. It takes A LOT OF DAMAGE to get a stock, and even with a good spacing the tipper won't land. Too bad for my boy, bur there's five patch incoming. Maybe we can get those precious buffs for him :'D

[@deathleet]

I solo main marth lets go

[@igirjei3717]

His tippers *are* consistent, marth just needs to account for hurtbox shifting and utilize sourspots a little (a lot lol) more

[@andressuarez2942]

Pick lucina

[@deathleet]

@@andressuarez2942 i definitely won't

[@andressuarez2942]

@@deathleet why, lucina is marth, but absolutely better

[@angelalvaradorivera5061]

When I see the brawl part of the video I get 2013 and 2014 flash backs

[@regis5112]

Marth don't get promotion in fire emblem

[@retrojazzer1727]

Literally all Marth needs is a consistent DB4 so that he can have a consistent kill confirm.

[@tonberry2670]

It kinda saddens me that Lucina was made the way she was because one of the most boring and generic characters in the game now has to be taken into consideration when figuring out what to do with one of the most iconic characters.

[@kingadamus8820]

Marth will always be my main in melee but he's steadily gone downhill on every new smash. I really doubt they'll change and add the mechanics needed for him to be good just for him. Overall I feel every game has also gotten less technical over time and has shone the light on newer characters which I imagine is for the sake of the franchise/profitability.

[@btu1734]

Great video. Honestly tho, Marth isn’t as bad as people say. The thing with Marth is that his toppers are harder to hit than ever, but they aren’t necessarily inconsistent. I think he’s really fun regardless and I really do enjoy watching him

[@igirjei3717]

Marth's tippers are only difficult to hit because of there being less precise ground control, almost every one of his tippers are the same as they were in s4

[@MayaSunfower]

This is your best video . Good job PG

[@troykv96]

Fun Fact, in the FE of NES, if Marth had equiped the Falchion, he was inmune to most of the attacks in the game (one of the few exceptions were Dragon Breaths... but that wasn't a problem for him because Falchion has extra damage in the form of multipling it's damage against them).

[@robmacher3253]

Yeah, Falchion was broken as heck in the first game. No wonder you can't get the thing untill the last 2-3 chapters.

[@M1RACLEWEAVER]

keep these videos up! these are great

[@senorstalker6881]

I absolutly love all the Fire Emblem references in this video.

[@madmikedisease7486]

16:25 Ya'll really said Marth has a class promotion? Bruh.

[@illialidur8244]

I wish he could class promote. Why is he the only FE Lord who doesn't have a promoted form?

[@madmikedisease7486]

@@illialidur8244 Sigurd also can't promote, he comes pre-promoted instead :P The DS remakes did give Marth an extra 10 lvls to help make him relevant in the late game if you get him there, but Marth is widely considered the worst lord in FE

[@illialidur8244]

@@madmikedisease7486 I said Marth was the only one without a Promoted form, Sigurd is a prepromote. If anything, Sigurd is the only one without an unprompted form. Also I don’t mind Marth too bad, in FE1 he is a real stat ball and being able to Forge rapiers helps him a lot in FE11. He is at the very least leagues better than like, Roy and Lyn and Eirika.

[@Ninjboi]

I just love script in your videos It flows so well

[@brutal_lui]

25:38 Meta Knight

[@Sly88Frye]

I hadn't realized how much Marth had fallen in Ultimate. I mained Marth in Melee but have mained Sonic since Brawl and have played as Marth less and less with each Smash Bros game.

[@anonymousasian589]

As a Marth Main in all the smash games except 64, I have put a like on the video. Marth in Ultimate, has to have a slower more patient calculated playstyle when playing. You have to not be forced to approach. Tipper ftilt, dancing blade, and bair are his main kill moves. Ftilt is a nasty move, and Many of marth's moves combo into each other. It can be used for ledge trapping along with nair and down tilt pressuring. Dancing blade is a move that needs to be mastered, as his tipper forward 4 ender is kind of weird because the tipper hitbox is a little bit farther than the animation tells you. But once you get the hang of mastering the timing and spaces, it becomes like breathing and IT HITS LIKE TRUCK(comparable to tipper f smash). His Back air is the weakest, but after the recent buffs, it works a lot better and back air is an awesome safe kill move. Also, because most of his moves combo into each other, other great kill moves are dsmash, shieldbreaker, and the crazy FSMASH. Shield Breaking is a lot easier than it seems, so if your playing against Marth, watch out for that. In the end, Lucina is still the better character in ultimate, but Marth isn't a character that should be overlooked that much.

[@igirjei3717]

Anonymous Asian Don't forget n-air2, that move is safer and stronger than f-tilt

[@TheDayd111returns]

Right. You also have to play Marth like a fencer. And play footsies. He's a sword-fighter. A lot of people think its an anime while playing Marth, trying to do rush down and be all extra aggressive. I think of Marth's playstyle like Street Fighter. You have light punch (Down A Poke) You have medium punch (Neutral A) You have high punch (Shield Breaker) All of these are great for spacing and can be use in combos. Marth utilizes time & space.

[@llliwwille]

Man y’all it’s gonna be really hard to do Diddy Kong and Palutena in this series

[@Snowballsage]

How does Dacus help micro movement more than pivot cancelling

[@SenshuRysakami]

I dunno about Lucina overshadowing Marth in stats (In their games), Marth is actually straight busted in Shadow Dragon (NES)

[@yeetusskeetus884]

3:51 Can we just talk about how they thought zelda was twice as good as puff 🤣

[@mikemath9508]

Bombsoldier, haven't heard that in over a decade

[@pandoralover21]

Need to mention that Marth recently got buffs on his aerials making them more consistent

[@jamesondrinker]

It didn’t really address his main problems but they were kind of okay changes

[@seeya_le5666]

unfortunately, more consistent isn't consistent enough

[@Patrick-bn5rp]

Yeah, I dunno. I think he's gonna need fixes to his side B, and his F-smash before the changes will be extremely noticeable.

[@zacharyalford8185]

Marth was built as a high skill cap character, so he is tricky to learn, and takes time to be consistent

[@Cheesesteakfreak]

They are attempted fixes, not really buffs.

[@69NO]

26:26 when the lucina is sus😳

[@Katanawiz]

And we finally get a Marth one yay 😁

[@nhampton5795]

Yesss finally you do marth

[@superfrubblez6123]

Freaking finally. I’ve been asking for this for like ever. Let’s see history of bowser next!

[@Gybsen0]

Next time I’d like to see a Bowser history

[@danielrabinovitz478]

TL;DR Melee: Worthless Brawl: Worthless Sm4sh: Worthless until he got his grab combo gimmicks, then he became a mid tier one trick pony Ultimate: Pretty solid, somewhere around top 30

[@kimaster5893]

Bowser competitive history would be interesting, we barley get low tiers histories

[@Saskaruto16]

Bowser is a fundamentally different every game really. In Melee he can't move, he's too big with no range. It seems like no one even play tested this character. There is no way someone looked at that and would say "yes this feels good and is totally fine". He isn't good at anything. Even his damage isn't good. Brawl tried to give him some random explosive moves like changing his side b and making his fire work. He still sucked but now he hit like a truck which was better than Melee. Finally in smash 4 he got a total physical redesign, complete with all new actually good hitboxes, decent speed. The major problem was his frame data (especially his jumpsquat) left his now strong aerials not really accessible and forced him to be a lot more grab based. Then Ult made him even faster, buffed his frame data, but super hard nerfed his grab game. Now he's a more well rounded high risk/reward monster that he always should have been.

[@darrenbelak4853]

You should call this video the competitive history of Marth and Lucina

[@mikemath9508]

I learned advanced techs from gamefaqs, both guides and forums I watched videos hosted on angelfire, and downloaded p2p vids from DC++ Had a topic I posted once where Ken responded and the rest of the thread went off topic asking him stuff

[@jarvis1076]

As an aspiring marth main, this video has provided much needed insight.

[@trystyn9256]

Love these videos so much u should do luigi next

[@rinktheredlink9317]

So how long are you guys gonna dodge link?

[@Exl6243]

Young impostor? I see it in a more positive light. She is a successor, and the blade has been passed on.

[@tendiez817]

Next should be: The Competitive History of Captain Falcon in Super Smash Bros.

[@GabiteEditz]

Palutena just stole Melee Marths grab range

[@bluedashinglightningleoof9664]

"getting outdone by a youmg imposter" that fucking hurt

[@owenmcgovern8140]

5:19 it wasn’t arguable, he literally was!

[@brock8061]

Can you do the competitive history of captain falcon or ness?

[@BiscuitDeluxe]

18:29 them not showing nairo's player cam is a sign of change

[@Elec.Balloon]

1:04 The face cams xD

[@rodrigoroblescalzon1004]

I was thinking about the competitive story of roy but then i remember he wasn't in brawl and smash 4 was a dlc :(

[@scg5928]

23:34 yes lucina was in brawl

[@dynamicjackstorm]

HEADBANGS YES

[@BrennanMaphet]

COMPETITIVE HISTORY OF FALCON NEXT!!!!

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Man I love Melee and Brawl Marth. I wish y'all would stop skipping the rest of the 64 cast. TF?

[@danielduhrito1068]

Probably because characters like marth get more views

[@XC11301991]

They are probably going through top tiers and favorites first seeing whats been released so far. I expect Falcon next.

[@MsDestroyer900]

merth buffs: just port melee marth into the game lol

[@igirjei3717]

Melee marth would suck in this game tbh

[@MsDestroyer900]

@@igirjei3717 ah yes, zero to death chain grab on fast fallers and and Ken combos wouldn't possibly be good in a game like ultimate

[@igirjei3717]

@@MsDestroyer900 yeah it couldn't, because ultimate's base mechanics don't allow for regrabs

[@MsDestroyer900]

@@igirjei3717 i would assume if he's melee marth he wouldn't be affected by that. Even still his combos are undoubtedly way more lethal compared to ultimate marth with an easy to hit spike and stronger tipper fsmash

[@igirjei3717]

@@MsDestroyer900. But his d-air spike would definitely be better, although the endlag is absurd, and his tipper f-smash would only really do a tad more damage

[@macheetozz9791]

I think even with the tipper buffs in Ultimate, Marth was at his best in Melee.

[@eugine.cougine]

yeah he was too 3 and arguably 2nd behind puff

[@eugine.cougine]

top

[@farmingsim9813]

Marth is definitely at his worst in Ultimate despite the buffs sadly

[@eugine.cougine]

FarmingSim yeah they gotta program tipper right

[@igirjei3717]

wiggely Marth's tippers are fine in ult, they're the same as s4 for reference (excluding DB)

[@browk2512]

8:55 this matchup chart is literally from 2010

[@snper1492]

I love these videos lmfao

[@anidiotwithaplan8714]

I hope that he becomes a viable character in late game, maybe a patch can add a new micro movement mechanic somehow?

[@Exl6243]

They should bring back game mechanics that were in the other games, such as perfect pivoting and shield dropping. I don't know why you would remove these mechanics when they have been in all other smash games.

[@furjaden8553]

Would adding wavedash movement result in a better game overall? I think they should add wavedash action, but keep sliding to a minimum (like it is now) where you can only wavedash as far as half the character's dash distance.

[@igirjei3717]

Unlikely that they'll add one, if anything we might just stumble upon it. That said, marth doesn't need any more micro movement options when he has walking and abusing his aerial drift

[@honathan2135]

Slingshot

[@Mahamaru]

I find it funny that Sakurai found Marth 'fun'. It's not fun being hit with a sword the length of a light year and grab equally as long. - I am a Fox Main

[@TZMHBT]

Loved the music you used to post in the early days yo.

[@Mahamaru]

@@TZMHBT hey thanks. Love that I got this after posting on a smash vid

[@Ozionian]

Brief reminder Lucina is Marth but lame as hell.

[@igirjei3717]

Nah both characters are lame🥴

[@ahmadkazan7994]

@@igirjei3717 marth is hype. Even she his tripper f-smash kills me at 50.

[@igirjei3717]

Ahmad Kazan Nah dude, if lucina's boring then marth is even more boring in neutral, and only really hype when he gets a crazy conversation

[@ahmadkazan7994]

@@igirjei3717 thats the point,as lucina you don't have tippers.As marth you can only benefit from tippers if you go for hits.And he loses trades if he hits anything aside from it. Tipper alone make marth fun to watch.

[@igirjei3717]

Ahmad Kazan Okay when he gets a hit, *then* it's typically more hype than lucina getting one, but in neutral? Marth's almost forced patient and slow playstyle is typically what most smash players call boring.

[@commirevo89]

Say it with me. The character's name is Fox. His team is called Star Fox.

[@TUZOIVAN16]

Marth will be back, I know it.

[@sethblack8828]

Pls do a competitive history of Roy

[@ROYEWITHNOE]

this is the equivalent of how GOOD was *insert character* ACTUALLY but in smash bros fun fact: the guy who made that series also did for smash bros he later stopped because.........idk

[@xavierdennis2161]

Yes I was waiting for this!

[@kentaIzzy]

I do wish you'd cover PM/P+

[@stuff1487]

Sheik next

[@peregrinehawk8363]

You said well known and captain falcon in the same sentence. He is mostly known for smash. And Brawl Meta Knight edgeguarding Marth well doesn't surprise me. He edgeguards everyone well.

[@Ellipses02]

I use Lucina because I never wanted to have to learn how to land tipper I don’t think I’ve ever actually played Marth..

[@Khanso1o]

Proud to main Marcina

[@Khanso1o]

And he most definitely can make a comeback in Ultimate. I feel like the engine for ULT fits him way better than any other smash game imo

[@_sah_dude]

Marth is the best character in melee dont @ me

[@69NO]

No.

[@sludgebones]

He is in top 3...

[@shamms9249]

Competitive history of all the links???

[@sullivans2004]

So is ‘The Competitive History of Yoshi in Super Smash Bros.’ next? :)

[@GrayyisGayy]

Will a competitive history of Link be made?

[@MetaKnightX6]

From a strong boi to a strong boi to a strong boi to a *wet noodle* (compared to his previous appearances)

[@repeate.6094]

Waiting for the competitive history of bowser

[@cedricsmith9383]

Sakurai clearly loves FE. Marth will make the comeback

[@dano2688]

Ultimate Marth is actually a lot better than people give him credit for, it´s just a matter of stop trying to play him like his Smash 4 self.

[@oceanman6973]

Ngl the way he describes all this makes me think that marth is like one for all and all the top players were the quirks users over time. Marth, and the quirk, would get stronger with every user that passes the torch

[@SourSalty]

We need to find micro mouvment guys cuz I main Ultimate marth

[@igirjei3717]

Walking and abusing air drift is all the micro movement you need for marth

[@SillyCathie253]

Fun fact: Lucina’s taking over Marth’s career as a top tier

[@andressuarez2942]

Yup

[@fastestniggaalive]

Marf was always my swordie main

[@smokz4856]

C falcon next pls

[@blason56]

Marth was good in smash 4 because of the simplicity of jab to foward smash as a true combo, which if used well is a tipper 80% of the time.

[@igirjei3717]

It's wasn't true unless the opponent didn't have a jump

[@LunarSage69]

If only Marth could promote

[@pilkmaster]

what is the music at 20:52?

[@kremeykrizp9458]

Now do competitive history of captain falcon on if the most popular smash characters of all time

[@ahmadkazan7994]

Pretty sure that goes to bayonetta/meta knight/Fox,when you say smash the first thing you think about is bayonetta or meta knight. Captain falcon is so iconic many people know him from smash more than f-zero but he is defenitly not the guy you Wil be talking about when you hear smash.

[@lukeh5521]

@@ahmadkazan7994 dude what are you talking about the falcon punch and the knee are iconic

[@ahmadkazan7994]

@@lukeh5521 not as much as bayonetta's kills of the top or meta knight. Bayonetta and meta knight were talks about MUCH more than captin falcon.

[@onikapryce-burke5553]

@@ahmadkazan7994 my guy the knee

[@ahmadkazan7994]

@@onikapryce-burke5553 I know. But if you start a smash conversation what is more relevant to be brought up?Bayonetta's zero to deaths or meta knights tornado or a sweet spot on an a aireal?

[@Snowballsage]

Do competitive history of shiek

[@YosherYoshi]

Personally I don't really care much if a once top tier character isn't as good anymore in the next game. People who actually enjoy the character for the character and not their moveset will still likely enjoy them anyway, and these high tiers falling off gives other characters a chance to shine for once. It honestly got tiring seeing all the same characters at the top all the time, Ultimate largely changed that to the way that you see plenty of characters getting good results which I find really fun about Ultimate. It's not a total dominance by one or a select few characters anymore.

[@captainmega6310]

Agree, though it makes learning mus kinda hellish

[@ultragamer8816]

When bonk says ken I’m like Wait but ken wasn’t in melee

[@sludgebones]

If you aren't kidding, ken was a melee player

[@Naven4]

Awesome!

[@nhampton5795]

talk about bad tippers on side B the animation doesn't match the Tipper which is a great way to kill but they need to fix that

[@igirjei3717]

It would make a lot more sense if the effect matched the hitbox but DB is broke and I'm cool with it

[@mythoughtsexactly2145]

One of the things I want to buff Marth or other characters is to give more utility on counter, or change it into a completey different move. Like if the counter hits the opponent, not only does it maintain the damage and knockback but also heal Marth. I want the counters to have another way of utility so I can commit to it