PROOF: The God Conversation Has Changed

Glen Scrivener reacts to 'Christian revival: fantasy or reality? - UnHerd LIVE' featuring Justin Brierley, Elizabeth Oldfield and Alex O’Connor. The host is Freddie Sayers.
Watch the full conversation: • Christian revival: Fan...
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[@steveroodenrys-brown9768]

I started reading the bible this year after never being involved in Christianity. I always have been spiritually sensitive especially around dreams. Seeing beings in my room, having lucid dreams have just been part of my life. Because of this i got involved in New Age movements and the Occult. Suffered from depression, anxiety and substance abuse (weed), dabbled with psychedelics and manifestation as a result of having no stable foundation for my beliefs. Jesus has always been giving me signs but i was never ready for Him but He is so patient. I was at my lowest ever point when Jesus found me and i started going to a strong Christian church and it changed my life for the better. I was baptised to Christ last weekend and instantly cured from my addictions and free from spiritual torment. I owe it all to Jesus!!! Im making new friends and reconnecting with old friends and have a purpose to live now. For anyone even 1% curious in Christ, follow your feeling and be open and honest with yourself, find a Christian church and find out for yourself instead of following others.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Wonderful to hear Steve. God bless you as you journey on with Jesus!

[@MrArdytube]

It is undeniably true that spirituality has had an appeal across time and cultures. That appeal may be most indicative of human, rather than celestial nature

[@sbwetherbe]

Similar claims can and are made for many other religions/belief systems. So, check them out too,

[@MrArdytube]

@@sbwetherbe agreed

[@Grandmaster_Dragonborn]

@@sbwetherbeCan you give an example? I’ve checked them out, and none of them compare to Jesus in terms of turning lives around and the sheer number of them.

[@CedanyTheAlaskan]

The Church isn't a museum for Saints, but a hospital for sinners. Go there to heal not because you are healed.

[@marvalice3455]

Well, the church victorious is a place for saints.

[@CedanyTheAlaskan]

@@marvalice3455 Amen. I meant the Church here on earth.

[@mokeboi3328]

My 20 yr old son was baptised last week at uni in yorkshire....many of his friends were very supportive...God is up to something

[@Jill-jb1jg]

Great to hear!

[@bubbag8895]

For sure

[@bubbag8895]

I read your comment and got goose bumps

[@Grandmaster_Dragonborn]

I’m in Yorkshire myself! I hope to get baptized like him soon. ✝️

[@mystrength5640]

How Wonderful.. God Bless him, you and Your family! ✝️

[@benjamin.misantone]

As a Christian, it's an exciting time to watch this all play out.

[@wet-read]

I know Christians are drooling over the possibility of Alex converting.

[@StumblingThroughItAll]

"There is a logic of love in the universe that wants to meet us." Such a powerful line.

[@adamgates1142]

Cringe inducing nonsense

[@sivalovesyoutube9373]

@@adamgates1142 Bruh getting obliterated by asteroids is the most kindest and loving act thats possibly out there... You just cringe... Just like the rest of us

[@user-li2bo1qt1b]

@@adamgates1142sometimes it’s hard for people to be vulnerable enough to be loved. May God bless you.

[@wernererasmus2334]

@@adamgates1142 a lonely soul indeed. How would you enumerate the most deep longing in your heart? Do you have the courage to share it. Also, if this is not love, how does it position you towards others?

[@Reclaimer77]

Lol cheesy cope. Anthropomorphic universe? What nonsense!

[@truthovertea]

Glen, you’re one of the best advocates for Christianity I have ever heard. God bless you and your work, your are truly a gifted man at creating thought provoking content to challenge the skeptic and Christian to get closer to God!

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

You’re very kind

[@jindjai]

Well said.

[@StumblingThroughItAll]

Alex O'Connor's honesty about seeking God and not finding him is actually quite powerful and raw. I am praying that his consciousness of God's presence and love comes sooner rather than later.

[@JEKAZOL]

Alex, looking for God from his logic chair...

[@CJFCarlsson]

God is that way. He know Alex O'Connors heart and says "nah".

[@peterwestwood2307]

@@JEKAZOLif you knew anything about him you’d not say something so cynical. Says a lot about your Christianity tbh

[@peterwestwood2307]

@@CJFCarlssonnice Christianity you have there. Your god gives you license to be judgmental?

[@weirdwilliam8500]

In my experience, Christians aren’t allowed to believe that there are nonresistant nonbelievers. It would mean something is god’s fault instead of our fault, or that god isn’t fair. So, you have to make up ways to blame the nonbelievers.

[@matthewvaughan1532]

I’m really liking this channel. I’m an atheist but I’m really love it when I find the places where respectful dialogue and commentary are happening. Full respect from me on your work. I've subscribed and look forward to tuning in to many more of your videos.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Thanks Matthew, glad to have you!

[@annabeljames9146]

This is revival. This is what we have prayed for. The tide is changing! Praise the lord 😊

[@scottgoulette8900]

And yet the data and evidence do not support your assertion… AT ALL!!

[@lindajones5337]

You are not alone! My son and I are having many conversations about this phenomenon. I believe it is an undeniable movement of God's Spirit. In these difficult times, THIS IS THRILLING!!

[@ezshottah3732]

Replace “god spirit” with emotional damage or existential desperation and you’d be more accurate

[@razedcountry4836]

Transcending peace of Jesus ✝️🌎🕊️

[@infinitelyexhausted]

I'm one of the people who has found an interest in God again. Here are a few things that pushed me in this direction: * What seems like a marked increase in evil in the world in recent times - this made me search for the opposite of evil. * Reading Tom Holland's Dominion * Reading CS Lewis' Mere Christianity * Listening to Jordan Peterson * Realising, after digging a bit more, that Jesus is a real person and there is abundant historical evidence for his existence, his crucifixion, and resurrection. * Realising, via people like John Lennox, that science and Christianity are not at odds with each other - in fact, they're complimentary. * Coming across apologetics and therefore people like John Lennox, William Lane Craig, Frank Turek etc... * Watching some amazing debates on the "Premier Unbelievable?" channel. "Tom Holland vs AC Grayling" stands out. I've learnt a lot and realised I've been very uninformed.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

A fascinating (and familiar) list. You’re not alone. Just on that… hope you’re able to find some good Christian community to process this with. Elizabeth’s comments about that are so on point.

[@infinitelyexhausted]

@@SpeakLifeMedia Not yet. I'm still trying to figure out which Church denomination is the right one for me.

[@josephknott6174]

There is not abundant historical evidence that he was resurrected

[@noorzanayasmin7806]

@@josephknott6174 It depends what you mean by evidence. Eye witnesses count as evidence in some context with the fullar pic. So when you are saying there is not an abundant historical evidence what are you refering to in regards to evidence?

[@oliverjamito9902]

My Own! Remember thy shared "i" AM, came with sincere conversations, and thy shared Feet resting upon the very tip of time! Yes, resting upon the God of life of the Living Footstool! Yes, take care thy feet! GOD OF THE LIVING FEET! Shared! Remembering ye once born, to crawling, to walking, and till now! In front of WHO? Mileage from thy feet is recognize! At least I can do is to washed thy old feet! To be given New Feet! Loving you without shame but with boldness!

[@raphaelfeneje486]

God bless you immensely! You and Gavin Ortlund have been of tremendous help to me❤️🙏✝️

[@robertjames9181]

things have really changed,, alex refering to christianity in reference to jesus rather than judgeing christianity by those who call themselves christians is a huge change,

[@jamesmg4694]

The real test of a Christian 'revival' is a increasing awareness of sin, not just 'wrongdoing' (which is helpful) but wrongdoing in relation to God.

[@Joshua-dc1bs]

Sin isn't real.

[@jamesmg4694]

Who do I believe, God or you, my experience or you, the fruits of repentance and a relationship with God or you?@@Joshua-dc1bs

[@ralfpk1357]

​@@Joshua-dc1bsbut evil is real, right? Then that is a sin.

[@Joshua-dc1bs]

@@ralfpk1357 I'm sure there are actions people do that harm conscious entities and we CALL that "evil". There is, however, no deity watching you m@sturb@te.

[@RicHrt540]

Glenn, please continue 'speaking life' this way - you are one of the few commentators that is not just interrupting a great conversation but highlighting it with very meaningful comments. Thanks for your work here!

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Thanks!

[@jamessgian7691]

Over 100 people baptized in the Catholic Church I go to on Easter this year.

[@celinehynes3336]

There's that please?

[@Dermsurg1]

"We come to the conclusions about things based on the relationships that we are in, the people that we trust and the stories that make sense to us"😮 Exactly why our species is screwed and will be relatively short lived

[@AliciatheCho]

22 people and myself were baptized into my parish over Easter

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Congratulations! (Whereabouts are you?)

[@AliciatheCho]

@@SpeakLifeMedia I’m from St. Louis, Missouri, USA. Reportedly, my state had the largest number of Easter converts seen in many years. The pews at my parish are packed. Lots of young families too. That’s a good sign. I had similar conversion to Ayaan Ali. Two years ago, I was agnostic but knew what the world offered was not it. And through the wisdom saturated in Tolkien and C.S. Lewis’s work, I pulled an unraveling thread that led to Jesus. I really enjoy your channel. In fact, I’m grateful for Christian Yotutubers. For myself, and many other nonresistant nonbelievers, you guys are the only Christians we have access to.

[@johndeighan2495]

Excellent content- both the original discussion and the commentary. Impressed and subscribed.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Welcome aboard!

[@cbrehm100]

Wow this is great!

[@TonyLouis9345]

Alex O'Connor makes so much sense. How could anyone actually believe in the illusion of god?

[@davidjanbaz7728]

God isn't an illusion: your default position that Nonintelligence created the Universe is the actual illusion.

[@jvalfin3359]

​@@davidjanbaz7728That's a strawman; you just saddled him with that position so it's easier for you to attack it. You don't know his position. What's so hard about being honest and just asking? You could actually be productive, but instead you went with the hostile approach and just assumed he's here with that. If you asked me, for example, I would say I don't know. Maybe it was an intelligence, maybe the universe is eternal, maybe there's a multiverse, we just can't verify this. Because we can't verify it, it's honest to say I don't know. Of course, we could try some arguments to see if they hold water, but their use is only as good as how well their premises can be verified to be true, so they aren't sufficient by themselves.

[@UnidudeNine]

​​@@davidjanbaz7728The same thing that created God created the universe. Try as much as you like to sound intelligent. If God just always was. Then why can't the universe "always was"? It's a trash argument. Wow you say nonintellegence created God? Wait nobody created God? No wait. God created himself? Give me a break. If God is allowed to be timeless and have had always existed, then why can't the universe play by those same rules? That's right its an unfair treatment of logic.

[@jvalfin3359]

​@@BBshark000 That's why I am an atheist, because the universe being eternal is one less assumption. I just included intelligence in my list because that term includes a god and a sufficiently advanced civilization that made us. The Intelligence proposition just hasn't met it's burden of proof, so I go with the one that has less assumptions.

[@BBshark000]

@@davidjanbaz7728 Well, let's say intelligence did create the universe. Then why your god and not another god? There are two hurdles for every religion, and it's funny how most religious people only selectively answer one as full proof of their religion.

[@hazelliddle229]

I have recently been listening to a lot of your content. Thank you for your passion and for the work you do. It does make a difference. God bless!

[@joshuafield8224]

Just been reading 2 Cor 2, things like the below verses just feel so relevant to our current cultural moment. As Christians i think we must resolve to preach Christ crucified so that peoples faith rest not on human wisdom but Gods power. Its an exciting time, lets make sure we keep it about Chist crucified: "When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.[a] 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power."

[@Jerome616]

Last Easter, there was a measurable increase in baptisms and confirmations in the Catholic Church across the world!

[@mickdomingo7276]

I'm Orthodox and the church I attend in the UK has absolutely exploded in new seekers and coverts as well. Its amazing to see.

[@aaronwilliamh9905]

​@@mickdomingo7276orthodox seeker here🙋🏼‍♂️ ex-protestant

[@Reclaimer77]

You people always say that but stats prove Christianity is failing. Only non-denomination is growing. Certainly not the Catholic church. Catholic!? 🤣 Man what a joke.

[@jhaeliferrua]

What surprises me the most is the way that christians will inject christianity in every aspect, like when he said "Now he goes by his christian name", come on, really? And the funny thing is that when you point that out they will argue that is a turn or phrase or some other excuse, but when a non believer does the same thing they jump at it like furious passive aggressive cats 😂😂😂

[@TeamDiezinelli]

I feel it too and have less fears to mention my faith with friends. I just not found a denominstion… or a church…

[@alsmith5031]

Keep searching. It took me a while, when I realised I wasn't called to the Anglican church of my childhood, it took me a long time to figure out where was right. You'll get there.

[@olubunmiolumuyiwa]

Try looking to the Orthodox Church, especially it's historicity and saints. Try participating in a divine Liturgy.

[@koppite9600]

It has been built for you by Christ. Mathew 16 17 19 Wherever the Pope is the Church is there.

[@Jill-jb1jg]

If you haven’t already, ask God to guide you to a good church for you.

[@thadtheman3751]

Ecclesiastics is not nihilistic. Ecclesiastics says life is nihilistic if you don't believe in God.

[@fernandoformeloza4107]

Loved all the inputs given. Very thoughtful and thought provoking

[@BB.halo_heir]

I've heard others say they wish they could believe in Jesus, it sounds like a good or nice thing. That alone shows how God is written on our hearts. There is a God shaped hole, as they say. One step closer! ♡

[@MrSpenny1515]

What does it mean then when others don't believe in Jesus and are actually happy that way? Wouldn't that mean god isn't written on their hearts?

[@BB.halo_heir]

@@MrSpenny1515 no, it means they are denying him, they don't want to acknowledge him.

[@BB.halo_heir]

@@MrSpenny1515 define believe. They know he's real but just don't want to give their lives to him. Doesn't mean he's not real.

[@MrSpenny1515]

@@BB.halo_heir I didn't say people who deny god, I said people who don't believe in god. They are two different things, and you don't get to tell other people what they do and don't believe.

[@MrSpenny1515]

@@BB.halo_heir speaking from experience, I do not in fact know that god is real. And yes, my lack of belief doesn't mean that he definitely is or isn't real, but the same can be said about your belief. You believe god is real, but that doesn't mean that he is

[@DarkMatter2525]

I've been talking about this stuff for 40 years. The engine that drives religiosity is extremely predictable. When there's a lot of bad news: economic turmoil, war, social strife, etc, I immediately know that we're about to see a religious revival. When everything is great, prosperous, and happy, religion doesn't stand a chance. We see this universally across time and across geography. People are intelligent animals. When we're scared, hopeless, or grieving, we seek a way to cope with these intense feelings. Enter religion. For some it's a crutch and for others it's a tool of control. No matter what, people will keep seeking to use it for their own personal gain. It's one of the reasons the Abrahamic faiths have taught that the world is corrupt, and doom is always around the corner. That's a recruitment tool. Even when things are good, people are made to believe that they're bad (but that isn't a sustainable ruse). If God were real, it wouldn't look anything like any religion has ever produced. The human imagination is not capable of conceiving what an omniscient being would really be like, nor would any individual human matter to such a being - sort of like a human trying to have a mutually meaningful relationship with an ant. The ant has nothing to offer you, and you cannot be understood by the ant. That would be your actual relationship with the pinnacle of all things. If you don't believe so, then it's because you believe yourself to be close enough to the pinnacle to have a meaningful relationship with it, which is hubris on a scale of absolute absurdity.

[@jvalfin3359]

Hey man, big fan for over 10 years now. I've always liked comparing the relationship of humans and God to blind insects and a man with an insect terrarium. Just like humans can't see, hear, touch God, the blind insects can't detect the man behind the glass. Now the man threatens to flood the terrarium if the insects don't start doing tricks for him, but the insects won't. It's not because the insects don't want to, it's because they can't, don't understand him and don't know why or how. The man knows that they can't, yet still threatens to flood the terrarium anyway. There is no relationship there, just an absurd contradiction. Of course, it's no perfect comparison, but it is similarly absurd. I'm from the Nordics, one of the least religious places on Earth, and that's because our society has focused on the well-being of all it's people more than most other countries. Religion isn't the escape people here need as much anymore. Most other countries' priorities are skewed towards certain groups due to politics and history, which creates inequality, dissatisfaction, and suffering. The more of that there is, the more people lean on religion, because there's no other help that's as affordable. It can and does help as a placebo, but that's as far as it can ever go.

[@danielklassen1513]

Where can I found out more about plausibility structures?

[@SeanathanCreek]

Hey Glen! Love what you've been doing over the years. As an AOG pentecostal church goer, we recorded a 10% increase in church attendance in 2023 and at the end of 2023 there were 42 new churches planted in just the last 18 months. Certainly in our own church in Scotland this trend is very much playing out in our circumstance, we have recently began a church plant in a nearby town. "They say Aslan is on the move"

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Praise God!

[@alandinsmore1186]

In 1981 Bob Dylan wrote, "Every grain of sand" that was the wave I caught. The Ancient of Days has not lost His pull.

[@solidflyer286]

I’m 42. I started reading the Bible in the new year. I attended church from Palm Sunday. I’m not sure if I believe but I want to. I want that peace that many Christian’s have. I know my local church (a Church of England) isn’t biblical but I’m not sure what to do about that. I love the vicar (a woman, controversial) and the community has literally been heaven sent to me. Lots of edits sorry. I wouldn’t completely trust the last census. I know a lot of people that didn’t fill it in. Yes I know it’s illegal if you’re in a property but you don’t have to fill it in if you’re not in a property. Just camp that night

[@Jamess984]

That's really encouraging to hear. Have you managed to find some others who are also reading the Bible in your area? Perhaps there are some within your church who are even if the church as a whole "isn't biblical". I'm sure the good folk at SpeakLife could put you in touch with some such people if you told them where you are. Failing that, I could try some suggestions - but if the shoes were swapped I'm not sure I'd trust a random guy who popped up in the KZbin comments! As a very first step, if there's a church running "Christianity Explored" nearby, it's probably a good place to start. Meanwhile, keep reading the Bible, there is life to be found in those pages!

[@MrsYasha1984]

Hello my friend! I reconverted in 2021, so I think i know where you are right now, I have been there. So I hope you let me give some advice: You don't have to have everything figured out yet. Don't have to believe fully, yet. Just walk into the direction where you feel more of that Peace! In the end, it was this Peace that made me believe all of this is true... I never managed it otherwise. I stumbled blindly in that direction, weary of where is the falsehood, how do they want to scam me? But I never found the scam. About 6months into my faith journey, I really started to believe and promised my life under tears to the Lord. My husband has had a longer journey. He needed way more time to deconstruct what wrong things he thought about Christianity. He understands quite well now, and loves the Church! He's not quite there yet with really feeling the faith, but i think he is close. Things take time, and all of us need a different approach. The Lord knows what hes doing. You can trust Him! Regarding the kind of Church you're going to: God called me very strongly to the Catholic Church, and i do believe she is the fullness of faith. But God works with all kinds of people, and there are wonderful, godly people in the Churches that don't have the whole cake, but they still have a large piece of it! And that piece still nourishes you! What I want to say is: be patient with yourself. You can't force this. Go where you find the Peace you are seeking. Don't overthink, let Jesus guide you, He knows best what you need right now And lastly, every tiny step your heart comes closer to God, all of Heaven is rejoicing!

[@Jill-jb1jg]

I’d suggest, ask God to lead you to a church where the community is great and they also believe and follow the Bible. Ask him for mentors and companions on your journey towards him. ‘The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, growing ever brighter till the full light of day.’ Proverbs 4.18

[@solidflyer286]

@@Jamess984 I’ve read it before - I decided as a teen to read the KJV from front to back - not the best way to do it. I’m now reading the ESV with a study plan and a study Bible and getting much much more out of it and a lot of my questions have been answered. Frankly I think the lack of good Bible teachers is a big problem - I went to a Methodist as a child and and I now attend a Church of England. I have limited choices as I do t drive and I like the community at my local church. The vicar has been very helpful in answering questions and finding sources for me. When I say it’s not biblical I mean a lot is carefully skipped over rather than explained. I suspect I’d be better at a charismatic church but still finding options.

[@a45williams]

Very, very deep conversation. Do you think outside of the box and how you approach this.

[@Jann-uj7nr]

How to use ,handle,lead,control,arrange ,consume and enjoy the things without hurting and tresspass others without any crimes and corruptions happen.

[@Rendref]

"We long for unconditional love, we long to be seen, we long to be known, we long for a deep intimacy and we long for our lives to mean something, and we long to be part of the story bigger than ourselves". Well said. I agree. But how not believing in God, Jesus, or anything else prevents anyone from reaching all listed above? You can do and be all of those things without believing. There's no shortage of meaning, love and bigger stories. Not believing in god does not mean being a nihilistic pointless blob.

[@jacobvictorfisher8256]

I’m interested in these conversations because of my background, and the fact that all my family and most of my longtime friends are Christian. But I must admit, I have nothing in me that could be described as a desire for God. I can’t see any role for a god to play in my life or worldview.

[@mendingwall9805]

surely you can see why other people see their desires met in a relationship with God

[@jacobvictorfisher8256]

@@mendingwall9805 I used to be Christian myself, so yes, I see the role it plays in a Christian's worldview. But there's no place for God in my worldview, and my worldview is more coherent and well developed than when I was a Christian.

[@stewartloggins811]

Wouldn’t you like enduring joy and a love relationship that empowers and frees you?

[@jacobvictorfisher8256]

@@stewartloggins811 I do have enduring joy, and I am more empowered and free than I ever have been, certainly more than when I was a Christian. And I don’t mean ‘empowered and free’ in any trivial sense, like ‘I can do whatever I want without guilt and no one can stop me.’ No, I’m free even when I can’t do what I want. Indeed the older I get the more responsibilities narrow my choices in life, but I’m not any less free. The things I hoped for as a Christian I found outside the faith. I expect some Christians would be tempted to tell me that I don’t know what real joy and freedom are if I think I’ve found them outside the faith. I suppose I could say the same thing to a Christian, that HE doesn’t know what real joy and freedom are. But claims like that don’t really land in either direction, do they. Besides, they’re absurdly presumptuous.

[@wmarkfish]

50 years ago I and a great many of my age peers looked longingly for musical and cultural influences toward Britain. Not just the Beatles but groups with sounds harkening back to pre-Christian folk roots like Pentangle, Donovan, Steeleye Span, even Jethro Tull to a great extent. Along with the rebellion fostered in my heart I pursued these sounds and lyrics with a fervor as if to bring forth from the ancestral past a sense of the world void of any Christian influence as if that were purest and most innocent. What the culmination of that pursuit has lead to 30,40,50 years on is something that looks like the Streets of Kensington in Philadelphia.

[@scottguitar8168]

Alex is generally right that most people would want to believe Christianity to be true, I suspect many would want to believe Santa is true as well. The difference between the two is that with Santa, it is much harder to believe something you know isn't true. Put aside not knowing if a God exists or not, religions have problems where with Christianity, believers can be unaware of the problems or ignore the problems in favor of faith. It is often when a Christian is unaware of the problems but then begins to discover them, they can lose their faith and become an ex-Christian. Conversely, you can have a person who needs Christianity to be true and thus ignores the problems in favor of faith. Alex likes what Christianity has to offer, but without the faith it is a bit of an empty shell. That is why Alex wishes he could have that faith but he needs good reasons to have that trust and that is something the bible doesn't offer and instead gives us reason to be suspicious.

[@jackgriffin117]

Rene Girard. If any religion is true then Christianity is true.

[@scottguitar8168]

I am a skeptic and I would agree that I see more people taking an interest in Christianity, but I have been around for a while and have seen this before during rough times.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Time come remind! What is a thousand years? Time will say but a day from Thee! Ye made a NEW DAY! As promised unto all thy little ones Offsprings preserve and unto all thy shared "i" AM MEEKS! Nor Keepers of HIS precious treasures and HIS FOOTSTOOL! Sitteth upon the NEW Table made from a hand without blood stains upon HIS hand. Resting upon SUSTAINED! While little ones "i" from all my Heirs Hosts playing under a SHADE OF the WELL ROOTED TREE! Noone can uproot nor shaken but here to stay for good!

[@benneisam]

It seems to me that the the central theme of Christianity is faith. God is only hidden in a way to excite a longing for him. That longing can only be satisfied through faith. Pragmatism only goes so far, it is only through faith that you can see him clearly.

[@scottguitar8168]

It took me a while to learn that there were people who claimed to be Christian atheists, where they like the principles taught, but don't believe in the supernatural bits of the story. Sort of like Thomas Jefferson who wrote the Jefferson Bible to remove the supernatural bits because he liked the teachings.

[@wet-read]

This sort of thing is rather baffling to me. I mean, we have literature, philosophy, art, accounts of adventure, etc., things that can provide insights and inspire just as surely as whatever religion might be able to do. What of that? It is immensely off-putting to me that people ostensibly think that when it comes to both practical matters and "big picture" stuff, Christianity is the only game in town.

[@sbwetherbe]

But has church changed enough to accommodate the new seekers without alienating them?

[@rduse4125]

One thing that I think needs to be mentioned regarding Christian hypocrisy and slavery. - People often believe what they choose to believe for various reasons. No one today would think it hypocritical to be a Christian cattleman. And 300 years ago, people were touting Africans as “nonhuman”. Thinking otherwise might cost you financially and/or socially. I don’t agree with this thought, I’m merely looking at motives vs hypocrisy.

[@Jann-uj7nr]

Politics ,Economics and Religion ..In case of religion which brought in many new ideas and custom not only in religion but to education ,agriculture and every domestic life as well.

[@wolves201]

I’d like to know views on the rise in ‘deconstructionism’ in Christianity. ‘A tidal wave’ is how some describe it.

[@PHDinADHD]

We'd except a statistical difference in Christian converts were your theory correct. We see the opposite.

[@tenmilesfm]

Thank you! It's like the Christian KZbin community got together and decided, hey Dawkins and Peterson et al, along with some handy outspoken celebs like Brand, let's really push this narrative for a resurgence of faith. Every stat Glen puts forward is nothing but anecdotal evidence.

[@Jann-uj7nr]

In every places or society are different way of Living.In every places or society its different character and attitudes developes when children growing up.

[@majose7787]

@Speak Life- what are your responses to Alex's rejection of the Tom Holland theory and his objections to it?

[@majose7787]

Ignore me! You've answered my question 😂

[@hyweldda56]

Elizabeth Oldfield is amazing. God bless her.

[@andreywonttell4016]

After listening to the monologue at 08:01, I thought that perhaps not everething was lost. People 150 years later come to similar conclusions. A wise man wrote 150 years ago: “religion is the opium (pain reliever) of peoples, the sigh of an oppressed creature.” When people do not see the future, they see that social life is heading towards war, they do not see ways to influence this - they try to escape the reality of religion, addictions, etc.

[@someonesomeone25]

I really don't think there's a rebirth of theism in the UK, not amongst the general population anyway. I also, really hope such a rebirth doesn't happen, as I think it'll be a bad thing.

[@Estupendomagnifico1]

9:37 "One thing that low tide does, is it exposes foundations". I love that! OK, continuing with the video now :)

[@hawktalk639]

My prayer is this move of the Spirit doesn't yet again turn into fundamentalist dualism. Unity and love in Christ can heal the world, using the cross as a weapon has only ever hurt it.

[@TheStrangerSpeaks10]

Hold up. Are we as a church rolled over on women preachers? I thought we were still on that, is this a British thing?

[@annievarkey3071]

I follow Christ and like Christianity because of His teachings of unconditional love for everyone and universal brotherhood.love is the magic force which binds all human beings.our love for parents,children,husbands and wives,love for our brothers and sisters and our love for our neighbours and friends sustains us and give for hope for a better tomorrow.this love forces us to believe in peace,justice,kindness,compassion,peaceful coexistence and universal brotherhood.the absence of love results in hatred, violence, bloodshed,subjugation,slavery,rapes and killings.that is why we see discrimination,exploitation,persecution,injustice ,ill treatment etc.in society.that is why we don’t like inhuman ideologies.the greatness of Christianity is because it teaches love .

[@scottguitar8168]

It is about emotions. That is why science is for the intellect and religions/philosophies are for the emotions. When the emotions are easily reconciled with our intellect, we are being rational. When we have work at intellectualizing our emotions, we are irrational and we often don't know it. The irrational, must make excuses for why reality doesn't align with what they want to be true. Rationality, like truth is easy to defend. Irrationality, like deceit, not easy to defend.

[@Jann-uj7nr]

Good Character and Attitudes Values

[@triciaworld]

❤❤❤❤

[@kerrypot1446]

I've heard the illustration Alex used about the sonnet and discovering rules of literacy before... perhaps John Lennox? If so, an interesting borrow on Alex's part!

[@UnbiasOP]

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor master, nor is there man or woman, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" Gal. 3:28 This is 2k years old. Let that sink in.

[@HiHoSilvey]

Was Glen implying that this movement was only occurring in England? If so, why?

[@Eliza-rg4vw]

I think this kind of new conversation is good for the church, but as per the truth of the conversation, im not sure. That would depend on the reason for the conversation's existence, which from what ive been seeing seems to be a search for meaning. This is bad for the truth of it, as it may imply people are in it for the meaning part, not necessarily whether or not it is true. This means more than likely, that speakers concerned with what you should do or how to act will probably get more traction than ones concerned with say, the kalam or the resurrection.

[@johnwheeler3071]

I agree with what you have said. If scripture is all about what the narrative means and little about beliefs then Jesus will inevitably become a different person to different people: the Nicene Creed will inevitably become less important. It will be a wishy washy Christianity until one idea wins through again. Christianity does not just have to defend itself against materialism (materialism versus Christianity) and other faiths (Islam, Buddhism, etc) but against those that call themselves Christians but take no interest in the Nicene Creed. In the conversation on Unherd, Justin defended the resurrection. Glen on this podcast takes time to mention Christianities core beliefs. This is all that is needed to keep core beliefs alive. Unfortunately on some podcasts the Christian hosts tend not to think it important to mention the core beliefs. They see all the positives of people talking Christianity but are a little naive in my opinion.

[@sbwetherbe]

Christianity/Yahweh wasn't the cause' of slavery, yet it did validate and enabled it. The Enlightenment didn't abolish slavery, yet it validated and enabled the thinking that led to its abolishment.

[@inquisitor1984]

Is this a temporary blip during long decline, that will be followed by an even steeper decline, like the 1950s (like a death rattle before the end) or a real turning point overall?

[@michaelnewsham1412]

That's why they picked Alex- they knew he would be too nice and polite to openly disagree- and even then had to outnumber him three to one . Why not have, say, Stephen Woodford (Rationality Rules) to balance? "We can;t have somebody on who disagrees with us and uses actual numbers and stuff!" You notice they keep saying "A rebirth of God and spirituality against atheist materialism" - and go on to talk about the Bible and going to church- if you are talking about God and spirituality against those nasty New Atheists, why not mention Allah and the Quran and the mosque? Oops, wrong God- of course, only our God is the right one. Those others experiencing a rebirth of faith are deluded (or demon worshippers)..

[@michaelhart1072]

Stephen Woodford is a bore and far less intelligent than Alex. His arguments are pathetically weak and weasley, especially when it comes to trans issues. And you’re missing the point of the conversation. No one is claiming Christianity is springing back into full flourishing, only that the conversation has shifted to be a little more open to Christianity. That’s about it. And no one is denying that Islam is growing at a faster rate in Europe than Christianity or atheism

[@bubbafowpend9943]

Just enough pushback to appear credible but not so much that they get steamrolled... well played eh!😅

[@AliciatheCho]

Having seen many of his videos, Alex seems perfectly able to disagreeing openly. He doesn’t shut “God isn’t real!” but he certainly challenges evidences submitted to him

[@RAFAEL27769]

Alex has brought up some significant questions and issues, which I believe can be addressed . It's important to acknowledge that the history of Christendom is not without its controversies , and must not be whitewashed. For instance, during the peak of apartheid in South Africa, the Dutch Reformed Church, which was then the official state religion, regrettably supported the apartheid ideology as a divine mandate. The church misinterpreted biblical texts to convince the populace that racial segregation and the subjugation of Black South Africans were divinely sanctioned. Sadly, other denominations in South Africa acquiesced to this doctrine, and only a courageous few dared to contest these erroneous teachings, often at great personal cost . It's worth noting that among the groups that actively resisted apartheid, Jehovah's Witnesses were particularly notable. They firmly opposed the regime's oppressive policies and, as a result, many young men from their community chose imprisonment over being conscripted into military service where they would be forced to participate in acts of violence against Black South Africans. Despite facing intense persecution, often with the state church's endorsement of such treatment, Jehovah's Witnesses stood firm in their convictions, demonstrating moral courage in the face of widespread injustice. I know this , as I was one of those young men at the time , and remember the harship and the sacrifices that they were making to honour God and their consciences .😢

[@Robandje1]

The ' move' of Gods Spirit has never changed since the Day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit convicts humanity of Sin and the Power of the Gospel opens the way to repentance to Trust and receive Mercy and Grace and escape the Penalty for Sin.....Eternal death...Separation from Gods life.

[@MrSpenny1515]

I think the one fellow's response at the very beginning speaks a lot. The others in the show joke that he might actually believe in god and suggest that if they got him back in 10 years' time he might finally not be an atheist, to which he responds "yeah well, god willing". Great line. If god exists and wants everyone to believe in him, it'd certainly be very strange then if so many people didn't believe in him, and yet that's what we see. Millions of people who don't believe in god, myself included. In a way, the mere existence of non-believers is a form of evidence in god's non-existence. I would think that if the christian god existed, it'd then be expected that everyone would believe in him, or at least in some form of god. Not that this is the only reason atheists have to be atheists, but I thought it was quite an interesting answer from the on-show atheist.

[@RyanMDaniel]

56:00 I agree that collective moral formation through community is essential, and Christianity offers a robust framework for this. However, other religions like Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and indigenous practices also provide similar benefits through their communal and spiritual practices. While Christianity's practices can profoundly shape individuals, this doesn't necessarily prove its metaphysical claims. It's crucial to explore the truth claims of various traditions. Ultimately, the search for truth involves both lived experience and rational inquiry, acknowledging that moral and spiritual growth can happen across diverse faiths.

[@strong-cup-o-coffee]

I've been listening to Brierley with a combination of great interest/excitement as well as a significant amount of bemusement. I work as a hospital chaplain (mostly in Psychiatric and Emergency room settings) and in that context I encounter many people who describe themselves as atheist or agnostic. What strikes me as interesting, however, is how many of these folks who ostensibly lack a belief in God ask me to pray for them. Maybe it's my American context but in my experience even the atheists here seem to believe in God (or at least they're willing to hope that there might be one) when faced with a significant crisis in their health or the health of their loved ones. Maybe the tide is turning? Or maybe people find it easy to say they don't believe in God when things seem to be going well? All I can say is I've met many atheists and agnostics who seem to hold onto their atheism/agnosticism with relatively open hands. Perhaps there were fewer actual atheists out there than we thought?

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

When Christianity is dominant, nominal Christianity is common. When agnoticism/atheism is dominant, nominal atheism is common. And pollsters have figured this out. They now ask those who identify as atheist whether they believe in a higher power or whether they pray and find that very large numbers do.

[@Juanrepublicnotion]

Alex asks and seeks for a sign.. And I believe he will not be given.. because that’s the point of having faith in God’s great grand plan.

[@bubbafowpend9943]

What CAN'T one believe using this method?

[@freshcarrot2253]

@@bubbafowpend9943 erm u just need faith or something idk

[@ScouseScona]

I prefer logic, facts and reality to religion, stories and fantasy.

[@nathanv247]

Didn’t realise Alex was an emotivist!

[@willhemmings]

I can see the possibility of a growth in monasticism

[@Jann-uj7nr]

Law of the Land and Sea ..Abused in power ..Pride

[@user-mx1kt6kb9s]

One of the best synthesis videos of the zeitgeist that I've seen. Interesting, pithy, engaging, and not goofy. Thank you.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Ta!

[@mortensimonsen1645]

I love your commentary - I wish this channel were known to many more! Just wanted to mention that our St Olav (St Olaf) of Norway was a viking in his days. He took slaves back in the last part 10th century. But where could he sell them? It turns out he had to travel all the way to Spain! Because...? Because Islam had control there of course. Everywhere where the church grew stronger, slavery was forced out. Also in Norway. So no, slavery was not ended by the Enlightenment. I think Alex argue against a certain type of "Sola scripture" Christians who must find everything directly in Scripture - no development in understanding or interpretation is needed or accepted. Luckily we do have a Catholic Church that grows and matures, as Jesus promised (he would send the Holy Spirit to teach the apostles...and their successors). I hope, Glen, you will start engaging with the Catholic Church. A Protestant is simply a Catholic skeptic - in the sense that they probably would wish (like Alex would like to rise from skeptic to Christian) to believe the "Catholic story" if they could, but somehow they can't. I've been a committed Protestant for 45 years. I have some experience in how that world view is a form of skepticism against "high claims" of "One Church" or even the necessity of it. (See for example this professor's lecture: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqGTh2B7oLqKldU)

[@maddi62]

Enjoyed this episode. Have to admit I share A O'C's nausea at Christian claims to every good thing to have happened in the last 2000 years, despite unbelievable slow burn since Christ came to fix everything, but nice to see coherent arguments being presented anyway

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

I make a case for the good of the “Jesus revolution” in my book the Air We Breathe (it’s on audible too so you might be able to get it with a free credit). I take a lot of time to point out Christian failures and hypocrisies too and happily admit much good outside the church. But the moral achievements I list from about 47:00 are hard to argue with I reckon.

[@Jann-uj7nr]

Why Church did not fight about Corruptions and Justice .Corrupti0ns of Corrupt Leader Corrupt government officials

[@maddi62]

@@Jann-uj7nr Good point. Despite the fact that Britain eventually came to abolishing slavery, it's christians had sat very comfortably alongside their ruling class buddies enforcing it and profiting from it for a very long time. Not until those people's unspeakable brutality came to the attention of the working class masses did any of those christian politicians acquire a conscience about the whole endeavour, and you have to wonder 'why then?' It wouldn't be the first time in history that rulers were caught with their pants down, doing things that enraged the masses to the point of revolution when they found out. These politicians - let's not forget that's what they were - merely responded to the political climate, and turned it to their own benefit

[@BenStowell]

Alex says atheism doesn't give you anything to live on. Christianity does give us something, but what Christianity gives is totally unlivable for many people. There are heaps of questions we have. Christians can't give good answers to them. Until there are good answers to them, it's impossible to live on Christianity.

[@majm4606]

Personally I find it more revealing to ask the other person what their non-belief in leprechauns does for them.

[@FriendlyEvangelist]

You're right!! A righteous Christian life without THE HOLY SPIRIT indwelling you, is IMPOSSIBLE. But with the Spirit of God living in you, while you will sin, you will actually live out the purpose and life God has called you too!!

[@majm4606]

@@FriendlyEvangelist Do you see why a falsehood would encourage its believers to have the "No True Scotsman" mindset you're describing? * Gary believes in elves * He says there's a "Spirit of Elfkind" that causes people to behave better * The 75% worst-behaving people who claim to be Elfists Gary tells you aren't True Elfists (if they were, they'd have the spirit of elfkind and behave better) * The 25% best-behaving people Gary then uses as part of his "evidence elves exist" because those people genuinely do behave better See how that's confirmation bias at it's core? And that specific form of confirmation bias is called No True Scotsman.

[@christophekeating21]

47:39 I wasn't aware that the French National Convention, in voting for the law of the 4th of February 1794, were motivated by Christianity and not by the Enlightenment. Nor was I aware that, when in 1802, Napoleon abolished said law, he did it as a representative of enlightenment values, rather than as an attempt to placate the British, not very favorable to the Enlightenment, who feared revolts in their own colonies. I heard all my life that the French Revolution was a product of the Enlightenment, but I guess that was wrong because it wasn't them in any shape or form.

[@christophekeating21]

What is true and too often forgotten, is that Christians ended slavery in many European countries in the Middle Ages, for example Louis IX of France. It's the economic factors in the New World that led to its reestablishment. The abolition in the UK was an economic disaster and was definitely not motivated by economics.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

French abolitionists like Brissot were very much taking the lead from English and American abolitionists (Quakers and Evangelicals) and the 1794 legislation was largely in response to uprisings in the colonies rather than popular French demands. (Compare that with the huge popular movements in Britain). And it lasted about 8 years. That might well be Alex’s best argument for enlightenment rationalism ending slavery but I wouldn’t say it’s very persuasive

[@christophekeating21]

​@@SpeakLifeMedia You're right. Part of the goal in 1794 had also been to get those like Toussaint to side with the French against the Spanish. The point is, I don't think there was nothing at all to do with the Englightenment, there was something to do with it, at least a smidge, maybe. I think the economic argument is even worse, though, given how bad the abolition was for the English economy, for example. I would say the abolition started in the Middle Ages already with laws like the one by Louis IX of France, but in other European countries it was also forbidden, at least for anyone baptized, which was practically everyone in Europe. Many popes also wrote encyclicals condemning the practice. Not that I love popes, or anything, but there were clearly economic interests in favor and at least some religious interests against. Of course, many Christians in the Early Church were also against slavery, like Gregory of Nyssa. I'm pretty sure that, although Nyssa was a minority and also possibly a universalist, he's one of the first people in recorded history to have called for the abolition of "the institution". Honestly, the whole story is a big mess that is almost always reduced to a binary along skin colour lines, when that was not the case for most of history. It took until the nineteenth century to end that "institution" because it didn't exist in that form until the sixteenth century. The previous, Roman form had, at least in principle, been abolished among Christians long before, though we could have a long discussion about serfdom, I suppose. The North African trade is also rarely brought up in such discussions.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Agree with all of that. 👍

[@Sandra_Robinson]

Really interesting video on a really interesting video! Thank you. 🙏🏻 One *correction* if I may. You say marital rape was only outlawed in the 1970s. (I assume you mean in the UK). In fact, it wasn’t until 1992 following R v R appealed in the House of Lords (no Supreme Court then) that it became illegal for a husband to rape his wife. 1992. 😢

[@samdg1234]

Glen, I'd love to see you dig into what it means to believe. It is clearly not a simple either/or thing. Here are a couple of things to consider. Haven't we all said, "I don't know if I believe that or not."? I certainly have, and if you interact with this, I'll provide some examples that happen to me every day. Second, I'd point to either 1) belief in God or 2) non-belief in God. With a moment's consideration, both of these seem unbelievable. God is so much 'other' than us, other than what is experienced with our senses. On the other hand, unbelief in God in the face of the world we live in is beyond the trivial abilities of 'chance'. That is why Lewis, in his chapter on faith in Mere Christianity, acknowledges the sometimes difficulty in maintaining belief in God, but when he was an atheist, he had difficulty maintaining his non-belief in God.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Sounds like the basis for a video… 🤔

[@samdg1234]

@@SpeakLifeMedia I think that that would be great. There is a lot that could be done with it. You'd certainly want to include Mark 9:24. Maybe I'll try and send you an email.

[@samdg1234]

@@SpeakLifeMedia Regarding Ayaan's "choosing" to believe, seems a totally rational thing to at least consider doing. Dawkins's sneering at belief in the virgin birth is what is ridiculous when considered in light of what is left unsaid. Even Dawkins in "The God Delusion" was willing to concede for the sake of argument the Kalam or that one might be obliged to posit a "beginner" of the whole show. Imagine being willing to concede that the beginner is reasonable but somehow imagining that placing a fertilized egg in a virgin's womb is beyond the pale. Who exactly is being unreasonable here. Willliam Lane Craig's video "Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence?" is helpful here.

[@tommarshall7247]

Belief, like love, can be a choice, because one aspect of belief is trust. That is what faith is. And trust might be purely innocent, but it might be based on evidence. What is that evidence? Part of it might be scientific, historical or archaeological. Some of it might be textual. Some may be experiential. Some may be revelation. It is sometimes a choice to love when we don't feel like it, but sometimes it just seems to happen. Maybe these are different types of love. Does that mean manufacturing fake feelings? I don't think so. I found the interview Jon McCray, on the channel "Whaddo You Meme?" did with David Wood on this very interesting, as Wood is a psychopath who doesn't feel love, but became a Christian and an apologist and tries to act out the commandment to love God and love his neighbour. How do you interpret that when you don't have the emotion? I think that is a useful key for loving because Christ wants us to, even if we have been badly hurt, even if we have no ordinary reason to go and love them. Glen- could be an interesting talk.

[@alanmill793]

G’day Glen. Alex, when speaking of gnu atheism says “Which is essentially a publishing phenomenon. What is it that is new about gnu atheism, well its disbelief in god, with all the political stuff.” Correct. The atheism has not changed. What has changed is that it has the platform of the internet to publish on and not just books. And those of us with an interest in political science, the one science that really can analyze theism, are delving into the politics of theism, in particular in the West, the politics of Abrahamic monotheism and the results are troubling for liberal and progressive monotheists. I would like to Alex go further in his study of political science and I think he will as he is still young and the more he engages with his chosen career as a public intellectual, the more he will find that the politics of monotheism is where Christians who live in a modern liberal social democracy don’t want to go as progressive liberal Christians have trouble defending the inherent authoritarianism in their chosen religion. Alex nails this later in this discussion at around 45:00-47:00 in your vid, when pushing back on the claim that Christianity grounds everything that is good in our modern liberal social democracy, he points out that all these good things were opposed by Christianity because Christianity is an authoritarian ideology. You avoided his point and deflected by talking about Christians instead of Christianity whereas he was talking about “religious authoritarianism”. Instead, you talked about Christian dissenters, Christians who bucked the traditional authoritarian mainstream interpretation with a modern liberal democratic world interpretation. One day Alex’s political development will reach maturity and he will no longer wish that he could choose to be a Christian as he will realise that he doesn’t want to choose a totalitarian ideology as he will understand that Christianity has a political aspect which he hasn’t yet totally understood its implications and consequences as he’s still focusing on the nice and worthy stuff but he’s on the right track. When I was a teenager and became an Atheist in 1970, there was only one book in my local library that was on this topic, Russell’s Why I Am Not A Christian. There was no publishing phenomena for atheism back then. I didn’t even know anyone else who was an Atheist. Rigorous searching eventually found some other but not many books on this and some like-minded people. And before the appearance of the internet and 9/11, I was sitting one day by the creek next to my home in the country, thinking about Christianity and politics and I realised that it wasn’t just the supernatural absurdities of monotheism that didn’t impress me, it was that religion is just politics by another name and it was the authoritarian and totalitarian politics of Christianity that really appalled me because that totalitarianism really does exist and has been and still is politically applied with appalling consequences. I loathe totalitarianism in any form be it secular or religious and that is why I do not wish to choose to be a Christian. I am no more likely to choose to be a Christian than I am to choose to be a Communist or a Fascist. The political science analysis of Abrahamic monotheism in the Gnu Atheism is not an over reach. It’s an observed fact that Abrahamic theism is authoritarian and intolerant totalitarianism as shown by history and current affairs including the brutal and intolerant battle between authoritarian Judaism and authoritarian Islam in Gaza and the West Bank. It’s not, as Justin said, that we are all intrinsically religious, it is that we are all intrinsically political. Religion is politics by another name. The personal is political as feminists pointed out 60 years ago. Things have changed Glen, the appalling politics of your religion is starting to be discussed more openly and the narrow obsession with virgin birth of those like Dawkins who show no understanding of or interest in political science will be replaced with political discussion which centres on the political reality that cannot be denied or dismissed out of hand. Religious authoritarianism is not, as you called Alex’s comments, absolute tosh. You did not deal with Alex’s political analysis and merely diverted with the Christians who dissented against mainstream Christianity with their modern reading cherry picking scripture that not too long before then would have had them strung up as heretics. Instead, they were protected from religious authoritarianism by the emerging liberal democracy in Europe. The same democracy that protects you from Christians who think you are a dangerous Anglican heretic. And as you know, democracy was invented 500 years before Christianity came on the scene and the prime identity of the UK and our home country, Australia, is democracy, though we have improved on the original Pagan version. What all these so-called lapsed Atheists are applauding is not Christianity, its liberal social democracy but that’s a kind of cultural Paganism, which doesn’t fit the Christian narrative so let’s ignore the prime identity of our countries. Alex may well be on his way to being the heir to Christopher Hitchens as Hitch did understand the appalling political nature inherent in Abrahamic theism. You will need more than arm waving when you discuss the politics of religious authoritarianism with Alex when you eventually talk with him on Justin’s program, as I expect you will. And that’s the issue, Under liberal social democracy, bad and immoral laws can be changed. Under Christianity, the law and word of God cannot be changed as God is unchanging and He thinks the same thoughts today as He did 2,000 and 3,000 years ago and the bad and immoral laws of God cannot be changed. Glen cannot change the word of his alleged god but he can help change the government of the UK. Well, only in the lower house. The personal is political.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

It was Christianity (not dissent from Christianity) which birthed charities, hospitals, hospices, education for all, universities, parliaments, human rights, the abolition of pederasty, blood sports, infanticide and the trans Atlantic slave trade. These movements were not in opposition to mainstream Christianity. This is what mainstream Christianity did in opposition to the surrounding culture. Your antipathy towards authoritarianism is again a fruit of the Christian revolution. Something else Christianity (mainstream Christianity) invented was the individual (cf Larry Siedentop). You and Alex are welcome to critique Christianity but your criticisms rely profoundly on the Christianity that has shaped you.

[@alanmill793]

@@SpeakLifeMedia Yes Glen, my aversion to authoritarianism is partly informed by my exposure to the authoritarianism of Christianity. And the democracy that underpins the major national identity of our home country and protects us in our freedom of opinions was not a Christian invention. You’re deflecting again and still not dealing with Alex's criticism, or mine, of the authoritarian political nature of your chosen religion that is your employer too. Alex and my criticisms depend profoundly on the Paganism that has shaped us as democrats. That Paganism is shaping you too. Humans have always built on the work of previous generations. Open up your Bible and the oppressions Alex mentioned are still there. Christianity cannot reform itself. Democracy can reform itself which is why it is a superior ordering principle. As has already been mentioned to you, A C Grayling has pointed out that the major values underpinning our society are Pagan in origin. Pagan philosophy was used by the great minds of Christianity to fill the gaping holes in Christian philosophy. So much of the west relies on Paganism but we took the good ideas and disposed of the bad ideas. Yes, there are decent humanist values to be found in the Bible, values found in other religions and philosophies too. I don’t have a problem with the humanist and humanitarian aspects of Christianity. It’s the authoritarian politics and the supernatural absurdities aspects that don’t impress me. Yes, Christianity built schools and hospitals and trained teachers and doctors and nurses. But so what. I still don't recommend it as a socio-political ordering principle as it is inherently authoritarian and is totalitarian in government. Other authoritarian ideologies have done similar. In 100 years, Communism lifted the standard of living of hundreds of millions of people and build more hospitals and schools than Christianity and trained more doctors, nurses and teachers than Christianity, but so what. I don't recommend Communism as a socio-political ordering principle as its authoritarian and totalitarian in government. And those Christian universities, those that hand out Bachelor degrees because for too many centuries they refused to embrace equality and refused to permit women to study there until around a century ago. These sort of things are not how we measure the worth of an ideology as an ordering principle. We do that by measuring the freedom of thought and action that an ideology gives us. Authoritarian ideologies like Christianity and Communism do not give us that freedom. The liberal social democracy that is secular and humanist is protecting both of us from your religion. Your own religion when it is unregulated, cannot protect you from your own religion. As Matt Dillahunty told you on Unbelievable, we take good ideas where ever we find them and reject the bad ideas. That’s progress. That's why we have a liberal social democracy different from Pagan democracy. Despite the flaws in our democracy, we are now much more inclusive and people have a much better opportunity to be part of the power structure of our democracy. The same cannot be said for Christianity. The NT is not a handbook for democracy and equality. Exactly what was been the male/female ratio in the position of Archbishop of Canterbury? Mmm, the NT says women are to be silent and be denied leadership. And does your parish congregation get to vote for A of C? What is decent about authoritarianism? Where is equality in authoritarianism? What is kind about authoritarianism? What is progressive about authoritarianism? Where is the freedom in authoritarianism? Why breathe air poisoned by authoritarianism? We can't change the law in the Bible. We can ignore it as long as liberal social democracy protects us from the wrath of outraged theism. But we can change bad laws with liberal social democracy and we’ve used liberal social democracy to move past the intolerant tolerance of John Locke's Anglicanism and onto a better society. Now Giro can have my full attention.

[@scottgoulette8900]

@@alanmill793Thanks for your great summation and for being the proverbial adult in the room. So few of us are able to tease out the facts as you have and this is the very thing that makes us susceptible to authoritarian rule and thought.

[@martinmartin1363]

This is pascals wager an atheist who was Christian and basically what have you got to lose Christianity has done so much for society and if you die and there is nothing you have lost nothing but if there is a heaven or hell then being Christian saves you from hell

[@Jonjzi]

Paul could actually be considered wildly progressive for the time in which he was writing.

[@iainrae6159]

Generally its only religious believers who wish more religion. Religious belief is essentially faith ie belief in the supernatural with no evidence to back the claim.

[@robertmcclintock8701]

:-> The human body is burly, gnarly and surly like a fractal.

[@Disciple-ofChrist]

Jordan Peterson now says he believes in the God of the Bible, so he was wrong about that.

[@kellystone7501]

If Christians, Muslims, Mormons and the like would keep their beliefs to themselves, I doubt anyone would have any reason to disagree with them. However, they all tend to push their beliefs on others (dancing, dice and cars are evil; stores closed on Sunday; etc.) That's where I have to ask, 'Why live your life based on things you don't have a good reason to think are true?' I've found more hope, meaning and purpose outside of these faiths.

[@samdg1234]

Surely you are equivocating with the word purpose.

[@rduse4125]

Totally disagree with the hypothesis at the halfway mark. - Buying into something like “God” because of a “feeling” is the same rationale that brought us “woke” culture. For example: God doesn’t work for us, so we’ll try athiesm. - Athiesm doesn’t work for us, so we’ll try woke ideology….hmm, that’s not working either, so let’s try God again. In reality, God is real, and there is a rational line of thinking to get you there. Once there, go all in…take the plunge…surrender, etc

[@markb3786]

Come back and define "woke," please.

[@rduse4125]

@@markb3786 - I would say that “woke” is a modern concept and as yet not clearly defined. In the book 1984, is a concept of “new speak” (I believe, although this is from memory). And part of “woke” culture appears to be Marxist in the way that the true meaning of words are changed to disrupt any clear communication between people. To me, woke is about intersectionality, and the hierarchy of the oppression olympics, in conjunction with an anti-traditional worldview. Woke is liberal, woke is atheist, woke is Marxist and perhaps a plethora of other things. If you’re making a point, I might agree with it, in that woke really doesn’t mean anything at all, other than it’s been used for five to ten years to mean a combination of these other things in 21st century packaging.

[@brianbridges8124]

what could it possibly be other than feelings, there's no physical demonstration? there's no way i can investigate your feelings that god is real any more than i can investigate the eyewitness testimonies in the bible claiming that they felt God, or heard his voice, or saw miracles being performed.... its all feelings and no demonstration.

[@rduse4125]

@@brianbridges8124 - Not sure what you mean, I said there is a “rational line of thinking” to base a belief in God on. The evidence is overwhelming, right?

[@brianbridges8124]

@@rduse4125 but is it not entirely feeling based? revelation is feeling, what else are you saying you have? the bible itself is eyewitness testimonies about how people felt that they saw God or jesus, or heard or experienced him, there's no way we can investigate these claims any further to see what lies beyond beyond feelings and stories, what else do you think christianity brings to the table? if not feelings. Science canot prove christianity so physical evidence is no longer an option, whats left?

[@shadowc5]

25:15 I don't think that's Alex's position w.r.t. to all kinds of propositions. From what I know based on his content, he is a moral emotivist (which is the most common way to describe an emotivist). Only prescriptive statements are subject here. An emotivist that allegedly does not even accept the laws of non-contradiction, is not really a thing in philosophy, as far as I know.

[@SpeakLifeMedia]

Yes I think you’re right about how unique Alex’s position is, and yet… he seems to be going there. See the end of this video: Meaning, Religion and Truth - A Christian Reacts (to Alex O'Connor on Triggernometry) kzbin.info/www/bejne/eH6Ul4popp6rmq8

[@scottguitar8168]

While it is technically true that we don't know where it all started, we have an understanding how natural formations occur without the property of intelligence compared to an understanding of created things here on earth with the property of intelligence. We also know that energy cannot be created, thus no Creator. Energy existing eternally could even be an explanation for God's existence if one exists, but it also works as a start of it all with only natural reactions to get us to where we are today. I don't think Intelligence has been established or we would be debating advanced aliens vs. Gods, but that doesn't necessarily mean Intelligence wasn't required to get the ball rolling. We don't fully have a natural explanation, thus it leaves room to insert Gods/Goddesses or any other filler for our ignorance.

[@phillipsmith7759]

God may best be explained as the force(s) is involved in creating it. Humans are animals that have evolved over the milenia. Our brains beg the questions about the origins of things. Thus we have many conjectures. What is true? Buddhism? Catholicism? Scientology? Etc. Etc. Such a cacaphony.such conflict.

[@BB.halo_heir]

Is God hiding from him, or does he just not like what he's found?

[@oliverjamito9902]

Heirs Hosts and my Beautiful shared "i" AM. What is slavery? From thy Footstool none existence! But a FRIEND kind of love! A friend not a slave in front of HIM! Who love with patience, mercy, and grace! Judgment and Justice always following the True Owner! For HIS FEET RESTING UPON "DO NO MORE"! NEVERTHELESS...will command my judgment and justice! Only reveal tiny percentage of my Heirs Hosts cleaners! Visitations above grounds nor under grounds! Removal of all evil doers! In front of the little child born "i" AM.